The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
Page 14 of 99 pages ‹ First  < 12 13 14 15 16 >  Last ›
Dr. Sleep
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 | 10:04 PM
Increasing Oxygen uptake is important for treating disorders such as sleep apnea and snoring.

Under N-REM your oxygen uptake does decrease but during REM cycles an increase in oxygen uptake does occur and is beneficial for "quality sleep."

Alcohol interferes with REM cycles by relaxing many of the breathing control mechanisms and doesn't allow enough oxygen to move into REM cycles.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 09:51 AM
Dr. Sleep.

Much like our most recent "expert" Sgt Slaughter, you give a few words of explanation that contain some familiar terms to many people.

However, for the discerning reader they will notice you have not actually answered the question I posed.

We know that people with sleep apnea don't get good sleep. We know they experience hypoxia. That'll happen when you stop breathing for a while!

We also know that Rapid Eye Movement sleep indicates a deeper stage of sleep that people with sleep apnea rarely (some never) attain.

Do you really hope people will believe that a patch will transform the physiology of the throat?

Oops, I forgot. The whole premise of LifeWave and LifeWave "speak" is that if people are dumb enough to think ANY of this is real they DESERVE to be taken to the cleaners.

Sleep tight, (a subject close to the heart of many a LifeWaver, little umbrellas at the ready).

Is it all about a few scam artists banking on people being dumb enough to believe the sales pitch?

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/
whatever
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 09:57 AM
Why do you guys thinks Medical Doctor's are always right ???? WHY ?? whatever, this sight is use-less attcks on Lifewave , so Later
Dr. Sleep
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 10:08 AM
EDHUK,

Wow....I have learned my lesson to keep my mouth shut!! I sense some sensitivity on the subject!!

I am not involved in Lifewave. I have heard about the sleep patches so I have been doing some digging. I came across this site and I get hammered by someone whom I don't know and now don't respect.

I am just providing some facts about oxygen consumption and sleeping.

I won't be back.
lifewave
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 03:03 PM
If Lifewave is a scam then why do , doctors,oylmp. team aht. , chiro., coaches, ncaa players,science major's,trainer's, gym's, Booster Clubs & high schools, who are acually running Anti-steroid campaign's with Lifewave. Only a VERY small handful of people like this web-site are trying to call this is scam. Some guy who installs A/C. HA. Who will you believe the list above or a A/C install guy who could NOT make it in Music & calls everyone & everything a scam unless his MD says it works. HEY BOB , Go away
hcmomof4
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 06:01 PM
I wonder why so many people defending LifeWave appear to be barely literate. I realize I've made some typos in my comments, but lifewave's comment is difficult to translate. I'm not sure I remember ANYONE calling everyone & everything a scam until approved by his doctor, either. I mean, who here checks with his MD before buying laundry soap instead of balls...
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 08:11 PM
Dr. Sleep.

It certainly was not my intention to hurt your feelings.

Regulars to the forum know that with monotonous regularity a certain kind of reply follows from pertinant questions.

I obviously mistook your answer for a LifeWaver drone answer, and for that I offer you my sincere apology.

The fact that you are a genuine MD is invaluable to this forum discussion of LifeWave and its outrageous claims for the products.

What a pity you have decided not to contribute further.

In my very short time of posting I have been called a number of things by LifeWavers. As they do not know me personally, I can take no umbridge.

Likewise, I do not know you personally and any comment I made in my posting cannot refer to you personally.

I do hope you will reconsider and give us the benefit of your medical perspective. I believe it would be most helpful to everyone on both sides of the argument.

*
jwb671
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 02:11 AM
Dr sleep needs to prescribe himself a chill pill...
Santo
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 04:35 AM
I have a friend that is a rep of lifewave. She gave me a few patches to try. I certainly have an open mind. It couldn't hurt.

First of all I am a certified hypnotherapist and I have done a lot of studying on suggestibility. I have also taken some classes on NLP (Neuro-Linguistics Programming).

I remember an old movie I saw in class called "Black Magic" starring Raymond Burr that depicted the same act as what Lifewave is performing for it
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 11:00 AM
Santo

Great points. I wonder how the LifeWaver clan will attempt to discredit you and anything you say. Should be interesting.

I find it fascinating that, with a few exceptions, LifeWavers have been generally quite following the conference. Maybe they are taking stock of the situation, or just trying to keep their heads down and make some money in the short time they have left.

If there was any legitimacy to this product it would be snatched up already by the FDA and major companies would be manufacturing and distributing it. Not a bunch of uncredited, unlicensed, individuals that form a type of pyramid scheme scenario.

I agree with you totally. I have posted comments previously that echo the sentiment.

Anything that painlessly benefits us we naturally want to believe works, then again there is that "percentage" of us that critically think about things like this and fail to establish the belief system.

I wonder if people like Nanoman etc. are "natural" believers or critical thinkers who know it's a load of BS but want to milk it for what it's worth anyway?

David Schmidt is clearly a critical thinker. He has done his homework, with or without the aid of others, and come up with a clever scam that has all the elements you outlined. He can afford to have fringe non-believers, provided the core remains to continue with their autoship.

How do you make such people accountable for their actions? The legal process is obviously tedious at best. Perhaps you have to reach a certain number of people you have scammed before you become of interest to the authorities?

Is it all about scamming the right number of people with useless glucose and glycerin patches?

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Santo
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 01:15 PM
I believe it's called free enterprise, and as long as you follow the rules you can make your money.

Ethics and morals are clearly another question. I don't think they calculated the factors of ethics and morals in consumerism. There will always be someone out there ready to seize the opportunity to take advantage of the lesser informed/able. That's another instinctual action.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 01:31 PM
Santo

I agree that free enterprise should be able to flourish in a Democracy but what about people who tell outright lies about a product and make outrageous unsubstantiated claims of efficacy?

I think the LifeWaver non-believers agreed long ago that David Schmidt has neither morals or a sense of ethics.

*
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 03:13 PM
lifewave says:

"If Lifewave is a scam then why do , doctors,oylmp. team aht. , chiro., coaches, ncaa players,science major's,trainer's, gym's, Booster Clubs & high schools, who are acually running Anti-steroid campaign's with Lifewave."

If Lifewave patches are for real, then why aren't all those "doctors,oylmp. team aht. , chiro., coaches, ncaa players,science major's,trainer's, gym's, Booster Clubs & high schools" writing letters to sports magazine editors and giving television interviews on CNN about this amazing new technology? We only hear from those that want to sell them, trying to get others to sell them. Most who try the patches and find they don't work would not have anything more to do with them so obviously we would not hear from them again. And since when does popularity count when trying to determine if claims are true. Scienctific fact is not a democratic thing. Even if eveyone on Earth believed Lifewave claims were real, that would not make it so.

lifewave also said:
"Only a VERY small handful of people like this web-site are trying to call this is scam."

If you look back in this thread, you'll probably find the number of people for and against them are about equal. In that respect, only a very small handful of people are calling them real and almost everyone of those was a seller of the product. Where are all their thousands of satisfied customers? The truth is, 99.9% of internet search hits are from people selling them. That would make their support invalid since they are in a conflict of interest as far as scientific truth is concerned. There don't appear to be any non-dealer sites that praise them. So therefore, I would say the majority of people think they are a scam.
Craig
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 03:25 PM
I'm trying very hard to sit on the fence because in the past medical mistakes have led to discoveries of greater healing remedies.
If I say that I have a patch to heal HIV then repeated tests will satify that claim. Many claim to "feel better" after been patched. Maybe the "placebo effect" repeats itself everytime you patch yourself and you do actually "feel better" then I would say that it works because the desired result has been achieved. This does not mean that you "ARE" actually better, it's all in the mind. Are you willing to pay that price to feel better? After all if you were in hosipital and friends and family came to visit you, you would "feel better" but would not "be" better. Hah hah!! So now we can't prove that it doesn't work and they can't prove that is does.

But I'm still puzzled that if it is "non-transdermal" why place it anywhere near your skin. If "nano technology" is taking place because of whatever is in the patches, it's still in contact with your skin.

Maybe its a serotonin patch. If so we would certainly "feel better".
Santo
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 03:42 PM
This is the most rediculous topic being argued against.

http://nano.gov

http://www.zyvex.com/nano/

http://www.nano.org.uk/links.htm

Reputable sites that will give you an idea of what nanotechnology is and what it can be used for. There are a ton more if you care to google. None of which you will find any endorsements to lifewave. I wonder why?

Knowledge is power!

This is typically what happens to new concepts. They get caught up by swindlers and used to make some quick cash.
Santo
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 03:48 PM
http://www.nanoapex.com/

http://www.thenanotechnologygroup.org/

Just a couple more...not even so much as a reference to lifewave......hehehehehe

I can't stress enough how critical it is to find your own answers.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 03:51 PM
"I'm trying very hard to sit on the fence because in the past medical mistakes have led to discoveries of greater healing remedies"

I'm not sure exactly which healing remedies you are refering to Craig, but how can you possibly put Lifewave in the same category?

Those other "remedies" were probably based on real science. One look at the Lifewave website tells there is no science involved. No one can yet make FM transmitters with nanotechnology. And even if they could, there would be nothing to transmit to since there is no "human magnetic field" that Lifewave claims to transmit to. And even if all that was possible, Lifewave could not do it since its inventor, David Schmidt, has no scientific training of any kind. And even if he was capable of doing this, he would not have to sell in an MLM scheme. And last but not least, he would patent the process, which he has not.
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 04:34 PM
Greetings All

I am a private real estate investor who was recently approached by a colleague regarding the Lifewave products. I subscribe to the concept of multiple streams of income and am always looking for interesting and potentially lucrative businesses. I believe one of the reasons I was approached is because I have a Rolodex containing many U.S. and foreign contacts.

Presently, I do not sell, nor have I even tried the products. I am looking at the material and am in the early stages of due diligence. A google search brought me to this forum. I am hoping to gain the insights I need to do my due diligence on the products and Company.

I took Captain Al at his suggestion although I do not have the time to read the entire thread. In order to get a quick
Anon
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 04:58 PM
Gosh, you better work a little harder in the real estate field if you have that much time to count posts on an internet forum.

You must also be hurting for cash if your willing to invest in an MLM scheme on an unproven patch.

Basically, I think your just a Lifewave fanboy who is tryign to stick up for your posts as well as others posts because your starving to create some legitimacy to a BS company.

Theres a lot of people here who have better things to do the critique failing companies. But they DO direct their time at critiquing and brin ging down scams.

IF Lifewave sold a real product that wasnt snake oil, then nobody would likely care..... Use your head, people here arent speaking up against it because they are envious of those who are in the chain and will be making millions or thousands off of it.

A friend of mine who sells the crap (or tries to without much luck) says sites liek this exist because the people on them are jealous of those with the insight to be self employed. Im not jealous of ANY Lifewave purchaser. I jsut think they are brainwashed puppets for a company that will go down, and im LAUGHING at anyone defending it. Not because im jealous of their income potential, but because they are so naive in hoping to get "rich quick"

If David Schmidt had a working product. HE could have sold it to some company for likely millions/billions. IF small energy patches gave us more then 30% extra energy in a day, the planets productivity would skyrocket, and EVERYONE would be buying, not hearing it from an uneductaed salesmen lookin to get rich off an MLM!
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 05:00 PM
Wow

Personal attack #1

If you are trying to influence my opinion, you are not doing a very good job . . .or maybe you are.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 05:37 PM
Re Guy

I obviously spend far too much time posting here, but you are correct that many people are passionate about this scam.

Good friends of mine have been suckered in and no amount of discussion will change their view.

In time they will be embarassed at having been taken to the cleaners but at least I gave them my 10 cents worth.

You mentioned you are in the process of conducting due diligence. I hope you obtain an opinion or two from the more scientific among your contacts. Real estate people invariably know a wealth of interesting people.

Hopefully, you will see this scam for what it is and save yourself wasting money and time, which I'm sure is a pretty valuable commodity to you.

Good luck with your search.


Is it all about a scam company with an incredible internet presence hoping to prove that more = better?

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Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 05:43 PM
RE Guy,

Thanks for taking the time to analyze recent posting activity. The numbers were not exactly what I exepected. In my defense, you only did it for September. This all started back in February and since then there have been periods where the pro postings dominated and other times when the cons were ahead. To prove my theory we would have to go through the entire thread. I'm not sure I want to do that either.

You did forget one thing though. Almost all the pro's sell the product. That eliminates them from having an unbiased opinion. Therefore, even in the month of September, the cons win hands down.

I can certainly understand a businessperson doing research before venturing into a new sideline. However, I do wonder about using popular opinion to make your decision. Although it might establish the marketability of a product it does nothing to determine its credibility. I would hope that if you thought the product was a scam, you would not get involved.
Santo
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 05:47 PM
I have a crate load of the new and improved "NANO-STRENGTH" pads that I'm selling for half the price of Lifewaves pads. They are the NEW REVOLUTIONIZED DESIGN, that slightly resemble bandaids for the incongnito appearence and all day adhesiveness. They have all new nanotechnology that has not even been released on the lifewave website nor any other nanotechnology websites for that matter.Super Nanotechnology. They produce twice the effect in half the time.

Be the first to market this wonderful new upgrade to the old obsolete Lifewafers.

Please email me for more info.
😊
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 06:43 PM
Edhuk

Nothing wrong with being passionate. A sprited dicussion can be quite fun.

Like I said, I have not even tried the patches. I will not do anything for at least 30 days as I will not recommend anything until I look at it closely and make sure that 1) I am promoting a valid product and 2) that it makes business sense (translate: I can make a return comensurate with my time and effort).

Captain Al

No need to defend yourself, I just wanted to get a quick guage of what was happening here. As Anon said (lol) I would not be much of a real estate investor if I had time to go back though this entire post.

I will not make my decision on popular opinions, trust me.

It does not matter to me if they are sellers or not. I sell real estate. It is my opinion that buying real estate from me is good for your financial future. Does that make my project a bad deal? No, but it does require you do your due diligence, look at my projections, and make your own determination, good or bad, on what you find. It's up to me to give you the best information I have. It's up to you, and only you, to make a final decision.

Having read the September posts, I am struck with all the personal attacks here-on both sides. Take my first post for example. (Oh, by the way Anon, I am not in any MLM business. There are many small business enterprises that are quite profitable.)

These posters do themselves a disservice if they are trying to influence viewers. A searcher of information will totally discount those opinions, and may actually be influenced to give more weight to the opposite opinion.

I spend a lot of time negotiating contracts with buyers, sellers, contractors, and renters. I have learned that when sitting down with someone to negotiate the terms of a contract, the louder the discussion gets and the more they hammer on the same position, the weaker their position becomes.

No one negotiating a contract would sink to a personal attack, because at that point they lose.

There are some very good points here and certainly gives me ideas as to what I should be asking. But attacks on posters like Dr. Sleep and Aml do nothing but sway sitting-on-the-fence readers to the other point of view.
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 06:45 PM
Santo

Thanks for making my point for me!
jwb671
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:03 PM
Who cares if there are more PRO posters than CON posters?

Does the weight of numbers mean they have to be right?

Imagine the world today if some past popular beliefs/fads had of stood the test of time!
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:40 PM
jwb671

Just an observation, nothing more. Use it, or do not use it.

From my standpoint, it is a piece of information. I would tend to give more weight to the number of posters with personal experience than the volume of posts.

There are posters that have tried the patches and claim results. There are posters that have tried the patches and unequivocally report no results.

Makes for an interesting discussion.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 08:49 PM
RE Guy

Makes for an interesting discussion.

Totally agree.

Meanwhile, a certain gentleman (if that's the correct term) is getting away with daylight robbery.

May I suggest free enterprise at its very worst?

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Nanoman
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 12:41 AM
Re Guy,

YOu are absolutely correct with your comments about a few individuals (EDHUK, CMG, and WWSN...by the way I thihk they are all the same guy!) who are continually posting negative comments about Lifewave. They haven't tried the patches themselves and are not open to any form of alternate treatment including chiropracters, acupuncturists, etc.

Here is the truth about Lifewave that continually gets twisted up in the minds of those who are blind to progress. I caution all the readers of this forum to keep in mind that the WWSN has its own personal agenda against some individuals in Lifewave and he is a disinformation specialist.

Lifewave has sent over 40 pages of documents to WWSN and these have not been acknowledged.

Here are some facts about Lifewave:

1.David Schmidt has presented his curriculum vitae and it continues to get bashed. When someone invents something it takes time to establish a curriculum vitae that the annals are looking for.

2.It is typical for academics to ask for double blind placebo studies, however these cost money that a new company does not have yet. Even if one or two studies are completed, scientists turn around and say they need more peer reviewed studies.

3.Now that the company has been around for almost a year, Independent clinical studies are currently being conducted by top scientists and Doctors from around the world. Some of these scientists have published over 100 articles in peer reviewed journals. The results of these studies will be published in about 4 months.

4.Many highly respected Doctor
br d
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 02:09 AM
Well, that Spectra Vision thing has swung it for me, concrete proof and no mistake.

How can anything be 'objectively tested' by a piece of flim-flammery like a Spectra Vision machine? The very first Practitioner Testimonial on that site is a masterpiece of obfuscation. "People with headaches to cancer have got successful results', but are these the same people who have 'returned to health'. People with cancer could sit a math test and get successful results, how would this help them 'return to health'?

If the best 'proof' of these patches - aside from the wonderful testemonials of those who profit from selling them of course - is a Spectra Vision machine then I think I hear the sound of a very deep barrel being scraped.

br d
hcmomof4
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 03:59 AM
RE Guy,
I'm sure I won't be the only one to offer some rebuttal to Nanoman's list, but it looks like I'm going to get to be one of the first!

1. The problem with David Schmidt's curriculum vitae has been discussed at length. I'm not in the habit of researching them, but the issue, based on all these pages of posts, is that it is lacking in actual detail, and reads more like a biography than what would be considered a curriculum vitae. I have no idea if a curriculum vitae has to follow a specific format however.

2. Uhhh... it seems incredibly reasonable to have to conduct the appropriate tests before making the claims...

3. This has been the answer to "When will we see the results of the testing?" since at least August 23 (page 24, posted by nanoman) Five weeks later, publication is still 4 months out. It was mentioned vaguely July 23, on page 12. You may notice that much of Nanoman's current post is exactly, including misused apostrophes, the same as his Aug. 23rd post.

4. I don't recall ever seeing the name of one of these highly respected doctors. Although I could be wrong about that. There is some debate about an acupuncturist's respectablity at all. I'm staying out of that one. It seems to me that acupuncture could work, since it does involve actually doing something to the body. Just not my body. Not with needles, no way!

5. This is merely my personal opinion, but before I started marketing something that could be produced by just about anybody in their own kitchen, that anyone in their right (and open) mind would want, I for damn sure would have it patented.

6. So what. This really doesn't seem to add or subtract credibility.

7. I've never checked this out. But I have my (closed minded) opinion.

8. See 7. Without any opinion.

9. Oh goodie.

10. "The promise in this email is real. Don
hcmomof4
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 04:04 AM
EDHUK, CMG, and WWSN manage to have some pretty lively conversations with each other/himself for just one guy. I guess that it must be too much to believe that more than one person is able to come up with similar questions, and require the same standards of proof.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 09:15 AM
RE Guy

I was wondering when Nanoman would make a return visit. If you have read this forum form page one, you will have read all the points before. They were of no worth the first time around and as a rerun are less comical.

Again, I am not WWSN1 or CMG or any of the other sceptics. The conspiracy theory is getting a little tattered around the edges.

As a businesman you are used to weighing up the pros and cons.

Nanoman likes to think he/she is the best CON in the business.

You be the judge.

The entertainment continues.....................

Is it all about lame reruns of tired arguments from amateur con artists?

Watch this space....Nanoman is back.................
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 09:43 AM
Great, it looks like a lively discussion has begun.

Nanoman

I appreciated you long post and the information you provided. But let
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 10:56 AM
hcmomof4

Being first is a good thing. Shows that you are secure in your positions.

#1. From what little I have read and the one audio I have listened to, my first impression of Mr. Schmidt is a positive one. I tend to think of inventors as somewhat odd; a bit out of touch with those around them. I do not get that impression here. I certainly agree that someone
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 10:56 AM
#6 I have to disagree. I think history marketing the product in other companies is an important piece of information. Why didn
Joe
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 11:11 AM
What about the conference in September? Did it serve a purpose? Lifewavers have been quiet on the subject. Lifewavers, anything worth sharing? Please do.
D
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 11:12 AM
I have just got 4 high schools , that have turned into LIFEWAVE SCHOOLS , using the patches to perform better , & YES they are working & this is A BIG ANTI-STEROID campaign. I have signed up all of the Booster clubs, coach's & trainer's. You Guy's are NOT gonna change anyones opinion.
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 11:30 AM
I am afraid I have way too much free time on my hands this weekend. Babysitting the grand daughter while my daughter takes a well deserved vacation, playing online poker, and posting to this forum. Ah, life is good.

D

Sign up High Schools? Can you elaborate? What part of the country are you in? What is a Lifewave School?

Edhunk, at this rate I will be catching up to you in the volume of posts-lol
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 11:37 AM
D

. . . A BIG ANTI-STEROID campaign

Has Lifewave made the claim that the patches are a natural way to reproduce the effects of Steriods? Can you clarify this for me?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 02:27 PM
RE Guy,

I figure you know far more about researching a new business than me, so please stop me anytime.

I think you have put the cart before the horse in your analysis of Lifewave as desirable business venture. You must already know by now you will only get conflicting opinions on this forum so there is no point in fanning the flames of discussion here. Therefore you must go outside this forum to get to the bottom of things.

Instead of trying to verify David Schmidt's CV, Lifewave's previous market history, how many high schools have signed up, the state of the patent application, etc., you could save yourself a lot of time by beginning with the basic premise of the Lifewave patch. If that is flawed, all the other stuff is irrelevent.

Go to Lifewave's website and read the theory behind their product. In a nutshell it claims a pair of passive patches can communicate, like a cellphone, directly to the body's magnetic field using an FM transmitter, telling it to turn on proteins that make the cells burn more fat. Fine, except for the fact that the human body has no magnetic field that can be manipulated in this manner. If you are uncertain of this, contact a biology professor at your local university and show him a printout of Lifewave's claims. Ask him/her for their opinion of the explanation. You might also enquire about this miraculous Spectravision machine to see if he/she has heard of it.

Also ask or be referred to the bioengineering department about the present state-of-the-art of nanotechnology. Ask if it is possible to make an FM radio transmitter with oxygen, amino acids and water.

If and only if you confirm Lifewave's science should you proceed with the rest.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 02:59 PM
Re Guy

Thanks for calling me a hunk! My wife was very impressed, and you and I have only just started communicating! LOL

Captain Al gets us to the heart of the matter. The patches and the claims by David Schmidt "inventor" of the amazing things they can do. I have drawn reference to the study commisioned by LifeWave in 2004.

The company was told by LifeWave that the patches are brown (glucose) and white (glycerin). Their words not mine. Check out the report on LifeWave's website, unless it has now disappeared.

The posting by D about schools looks very similar to another posting recently. A little like a child saying Na Na Na Na Na!

The BMR is basal metabolic rate.

http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/ns421/BMR.html

LifeWave makes various claims about how the patches change this.

Look at my previous posting reference about BMR.
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

The monks can change their body temperature by thought alone. The Spectravision machine that LifeWavers tout as "proof" that the patches work would give a wonderful show if attached to one of these monks. The results would be amazing and not a patch in sight!

I too am sorry AML took offence. I am curious how you know it was a woman. I don't think that was ever mentioned in a posting?

As for tests with college athletes. The so called "studies" were at Troy University and Morehouse College. The names of these institutions were bandied around up to the point where they sent cease and desist orders from their legal depts.

Like other MLM's LifeWave takes a sentence and turns it into earth shattering "proof" of why you should buy into the pyramid.

One unfortunate gentleman in Georgia stated he didn't see any harm could be done by the patches. The next minute he is being used as evidence that the Georgia Schools system has "endorsed" the patches. I posted the reality behind that episode earlier in this forum.

Well, that's my equivalent of crossword puzzle time for now.

Cheers.

*
DaveW
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 04:54 PM
Nanoman, how do you respond to this link?

http://www.randi.org/jr/061005smug.html
(bottom of page)

"A quick reading of their website, as anyone who has even just a little scientific background will tell you, indicates what nonsense it is. NASA attorneys will immediately take action and stop this."

The Dr. that lifewave had posted on their website orignally, a leading man of science on Nanotech, and writes lifewave off as "nonsense"

He likely isnt JEALOUS, nor needing the $$$ that Lifewave could offer him. I want to hear your reason for that, because im guessing your a member of lifewave and someone who follows it well.

I cant believe this discussion has gone where it has, Im dumbfoudned that people actually BELIEVE in this. MAn people, if this was legit, would we not all be hearing of it on the news and seeing a huge uproar? When Creatine came out, it was the biggest buzzword in the gym and in the health stores. This has been around all of one year, and I only hear of it from poor friends of mine hoping that it will make them rich pawning it off to me.

*shrug*

Ive taken ephedrine, that works, and BOY can you feel it, as unsafe as it is. The lifewave patches almsopt claim MORE, and I dont even feel a HINT of any increase in energy, or anything.
RE Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 04:57 PM
EDHUNK

Lol, I am always glad to give out compliments if they are warrented. In this case, I guess I did it without knowing it.

You know, I do not know why I assumed Aml was a woman but I did. Maybe it was the name used (Aml does not strike me as a masculine screen name) and the fact the poster worked as a riding instructor and barn manager. I have not spoken with many males that want to grow up to be barn managers. Something in the writing style led me to that conclusion the poster was female. Sorry gals no disrespect intented.

"The Spectravision machine that LifeWavers tout as "proof" that the patches work would give a wonderful show if attached to one of these monks. The results would be amazing and not a patch in sight!"

Does this mean you beleive the Spectravison machine can detect the changes in the energy fields as claimed?

Captain Al

I use the balance sheet method of analysing a venture. Sheet of paper, +s on one side, -s on the other side. List them out, do due diligence and move the +s and -s as warrented. I then prioritize each side with most important + or - at the top. I then assign a numerical value to each. Add them up and see where I am at.

It is grantedly a very simplistic way to look at things, but it gives me a good overvue. If both sides are close, then I have to go with my gut and make sure that I will be getting good value for the time I have to spend on the project and compare it to other projects I am considering.

". . . communicate, like a cellphone, directly to the body's magnetic field using an FM transmitter"

I have not seen anywhere where it says that the patches interact with the body's magnetic field. Is that on the website? I never was very good in chemistry or physics in school.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 05:26 PM
RE Guy

My comment about the monks was more to illustrate that they can change their BMR without the kind of outside intervention LifeWave claim for their patch.

Just because a machine shows changes in the body, if it even does, doesn't necessarily mean the changes were linked to a patch etc. The machine may well pick up changes...ECG, EKG, PET, MRI, Radiography, all give us insights into the working of the body. I don't know much about Spectravision; it may well be a bona fide piece of equipment but I don't believe our bodies have a magnetic element. Spectravision talks about energy. I don't think magnetism gets mentioned?

As has been said here before, if our blood was magnetic, you'd better get ready with the cleaning equipment when they put a person in the MRI! Messy.

The LifeWave website contains ALL the wacky theories talked about here. You might want to put tin foil on your head before reading...just a precaution! LOL

Enjoy, it's riveting stuff.

%
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 05:29 PM
RE Guy

Just to save you looking it up:

http://www.lifewave.com/pdf/haltiwanger_24p_paper.pdf

Cheers.

$
Coops
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 | 02:16 PM
Hey! Where is Cranky Media Guy gone? I really miss his subtle quirkiness and downright staightforwardness.

Comeback

PS. What will happen if I put 3 patches on each side? Will I overdozes ZZZZZzzzzz.....
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 | 07:21 PM
What do you get if you put 45 LifeWaver's in a room?

I don't know, but there's a study coming out on it in 4 months!

RE Guy

Looking forward to your thoughts when you've completed your preliminary research on LifeWave.

*
DaveW
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 | 02:07 PM
Wow WWSN, you are passionate in your goal of exposing the fraud, but thats a good thing!!!

Unfortunately, they are holding the "1st international lifewave conference" in Calgary Alberta this coming weekend.

Gosh I would love to go there and bring up some of these points. Even take someone with a strong medical background to stand up and expose them all for the quacks they are.

Sadly, I can pretty much assure you that there will be many unsuspecting folks suckered into the sceheme. Just reading the Forwards that I get hyping the "product of the century", and "future nobel prize winner D Schmidt" , "the genius" Etc.

Anyone wanna take a road trip to Calgary Alberta and put a stop to it 😊
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 | 04:48 PM
"Now that the company has been around for almost a year, Independent clinical studies are currently being conducted by top scientists and Doctors from around the world. Some of these scientists have published over 100 articles in peer reviewed journals. The results of these studies will be published in about 4 months."

Weren't these studies the ones that were suppose to come out at the Vegas conference a few weeks ago? And I was looking forward to them too!

The only "studies" I seem to be able to find is the one posted by WWSN a while back: http://thesurfboard.net/nazeran.pdf

Is that suppose to be the long awaited study? As far as I can tell by reading through it, the test was done on only 10 individuals, 5 with the placebo and 5 with the real patches. The study itself is only 5 pages long, and half of those are just graphs.

I would be curious to see the raw numbers for each individual. With only 10 test subjects, it shouldn't be hard to list "Subject 1, Subject 2, etc." Averages mean almost nothing in terms of testing and statistics, yet those are the only results provided in the study.

Frankly, the "results" that the study came up with do not look statistically significant to me, although, it is impossible to tell for sure without the raw numbers. However, with only 5 test subjects in each group, there would have to be a significant difference between the groups with no room for error in either in order for it to be at all significant, and even then, there just aren
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 | 05:27 PM
Razela

You are applying logic, common sense, rational thinking, scientific methodology etc. to a scam company that deals in a placebo product.

LifeWave promises the stars to potential customers/distributors. They work in the high ether of suspended disbelief. A wonderful example of smoke and mirrors.

You often see LifeWavers post here that we will never change their minds; LifeWave will go on forever. Of course, we know the latter is not true. As to the first claim: I have no intention of changing their minds.

My sole purpose (as I suspect other forum posters as well) is to give food for thought to the many people who look at this forum.

Does this product sound reasonable, plausible? Is it sold by a bona fide company with a good track record? Are all the people involved with the company of good standing? What will I gain by buying this product? What will I loose if this product truly is a scam, a hoax being played on the gullible?

What do detractors of this company hope to gain from the closure of the company? Can I really believe in personal vendettas, conspiracy theories?

Can I really believe a lowly business student was snapped up by nameless people and allowed to "invent" what surely should be one of the biggest breakthroughs in modern science?

Allowed to invent, and then without any kind of proper testing for efficacy and safety, sell this product through two failed companies, and the current company, using Multi-Marketing Methods. Methods that concentrate on financial rewards providing, of course, you can convince enough of your sceptical friends to buy the product and become distributors themselves?

Think about it. Please.

Does this company make any kind of logical sense?

Anybody?

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Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 | 06:18 PM
"Anyone wanna take a road trip to Calgary Alberta and put a stop to it "

DaveW, I'm currently in Alberta but have no intention of going to Calgary to knock some sense into the attendees. What could one person hope to accomplish? You would be a lone voice in a sea of deception, an outcast who obviously can't see five feet in front of his face, a nay-sayer who couldn't recognize a revolutionary new technology if he tripped over it.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 | 08:35 PM
Captain Al,

You are absolutely right. Would be a monumental waste of time.

Let's remind ourselves of the posting on James Randi's website quoting WWSN.


WWSN also corresponded with Dr. Stephen R. Norris at the Human Performance Laboratory at the Faculty of Kinesiology, University of Calgary. Dr. Norris says that he was approached by Lifewave and he wrote:

I work within the Human Performance Laboratory (Faculty of Kinesiology, University of Calgary) and have been approached by people associated with this [LifeWave] product no doubt so as to be a conduit to the Canadian National Team athletes of the various Winter Olympic Sports based out of this institution (and the main training centre on campus, the Canadian Sport Centre Calgary). I, of course, asked to see independent peer-reviewed studies for verification of the claims made. To date, NONE have been forthcoming.

We don't make this stuff up, friends. We have original correspondence from recognized and named authorities at each institution. Somebody is being less than truthful with the public. You should be able to figure out who that is on your own.


I guess Dr. Norris won't be one of their guest speakers!


October 7th, 8th, 9th, 2005
Calgary AB, Canada

NATIONAL CONVENTION - CANADA
S.A.I.T. Campus Centre - CALGARY, ALBERTA

Don't miss out. The Polytechnic Campus Centre.

I wonder if student's get a deal?

Visitors to the meeting are advised to take their own aluminum foil. Hats are optional.

We will wait for more riveting revelations, just like Las Vegas.

We're still on hold for the Las Vegas revelations aren't we?

Anybody?

Is LifeWave intent on touting their wares around the world? You bet your sweet bippy they are. Must keep one step ahead of the naysayers and their conspiracies.

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Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 | 01:43 PM
The Lifewave faithful have been quite lately. Are they under a gag order from Chancellor Schmidt?

On second thought, they must be out spending the millions of dollars they've earned from Lifewave.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 | 12:08 PM
Captain Al

It could be that Schmidt has asked his faithful not to post...it is difficult to have a one-sided discussion!

It is also possible that LifeWavers realize they have not given a single logical, sensible reason for anyone to buy into their MLM scam. They try their best, but answers just don't seem to belong to this world.

Any serious reader will look carefully at the growing number of forum pages and see clearly who has most to loose when this scam comes to a close.

Meanwhile, Schmidt will continue to defy logic by touting his insane suggestion that he is a brilliant scientific inventor.

A few brave souls (probably hundreds/thousands in LifeWave speak) will meet at the Polytechnic in Canada this week-end. Some will be totally taken in by the sales pitch. The sound of cash registers will ring in their ears (apart from the one taking their entrance money).

By next week, Schmidt can advertise that he had a highly successful International Conference. Next stop the moon!

Is it all about a man who can look you in the eye and tell you, with conviction, the biggest bull **** story of all time...and you believe him!

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MAG
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 | 07:11 PM
Saw this in a NEW runner magazine here in Washington :: Science of Sport: A New All Natural Non-Transdermal Energy Patch

Nothing enters into the Blood Stream. The patches are based upon a relatively new science called Nanotechnology. The patent pending method allows organic materials to signal the human body to increase energy and stamina but without ingesting anything. Double-Blind studies at Major Universities have shown most people experience an increase of energy within minutes of using the energy patches.

Richard Quick, Stanford University Swim coach with 12 NCAA championships and 6 Olympic coaching appearances says
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 | 07:33 PM
MAG, sounds like a carbon copy of the promotional material from every other Lifewave plug. You have to wonder about Lifewave's respect for the average person's intelligence.

"The patches are based upon a relatively new science called Nanotechnology."

I suppose they assume no it will look that up.

"a phenomenal business opportunity through marketing them"

Notice how that's at number 1.

"LifeWave patches were designed to make people winners."

Gee, if everyone were to use them, won't that nullify the advantage?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 | 07:34 PM
EDHUK, I hope we here from some of the Canadian conference attendees to find out how it went.
Joe
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 | 07:53 PM
Has there been any FULLY independent studies conducted thus far?

I've heard a lot about those studies done by Lifewave distributors and also those fake university studies.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 | 09:14 PM
The beauty of LifeWave is that in using "LifeWave speak" certain types of people are mesmerised and enter the world of the "not thinking".

In this world, any rules of conventional wisdom, reasonableness, common sense or any type of universally accepted scientic method or logic, are spirited away.

A form of denial appears to take place, where the newly inducted user or distributor ignores that little voice at the back of their mind. The voice that says "this makes absolutley no sense at all."

Once firmly entrenched in the LifeWave family, the world takes on a new look. It now becomes a place full of opportunities. An entire planet waiting eagerly to learn about the patch technology mastered by David Schmidt. A humble business student, now "scientist", who has been able to crack the "code".

There's always the money as well, or the promise of plenty to be made, soon, sometime soon, after you put in the hard work required to establish your contacts; your list of buyers that will enrich people above you.

Never mind, it's a well known reputable company after all. Good people at the helm, nothing shady about these guys. All above board, transparent. The ability to reasearch backgrounds, qualifications, CV's etc.

No chance of it going pear shaped. You'd be crazy to miss this "opportunity of a lifetime".

So for anyone used to the ether-like state of Franz Anton Mesmer, LifeWave will be right up your street. Tailor made for a person like you.

Back in the 1700's Mesmer had a lot of fun:

There he met ready acceptance from the populace but an equally strong scepticism from the medical profession, who attributed the effects he produced to the imagination of the patients rather than to his supposed new force.

There were so many poor people coming for treatment that he had to resort to methods which could help many at once. He first designed a magnetic baquet, a wooden tub nearly five feet across, and one foot deep, filled with water, patterns of bottles and iron filings. Out of this tub projected iron rods which were held by the patients. Later he "magnetised" a tree, so that patients could be healed by holding ropes hanging from its branches. The most noticeable effect of these devices was to induce a "crisis": convulsions.


LifeWave certainly wouldn't do anything like that would they?

Of course not. They have plenty of rock solid peer reviewed studies to prove the efficacy and safety of the product.

Mind you, "peer" reviewed does rather imply someone who is in the same line of work, same area of science.

If you are a scam artist selling overpriced glucose and glycerin patches to mesmerised people, the calibre of your peers would seem to be rather questionable.

So we sit and wait, and wait, for any kind of genuine study to surface.

Is it all about a man who, as they say in the British Parliament, has been rather "economical with the truth?"

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