The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 11:59 AM
I wouldn't touch that stuff if "THEY" made it.
"THEY" are allways trying to find out new ways of getting me.
JoeSixpack
Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 01:07 PM
WOW, what an impressive body of evidence they have there!!! I was especially impressed by he conclusion of the double blind clinical trial,"...The LIFEWAVE GROUP experienced an average improvement in repetitions from Monday to Thursday of 34%." I'll bet if the IOC doesn't step up to the plate here we're gonna' see a lot of Olympic records SHATTERED! I mean, a 34% improvement for a sprinter is over 3 seconds in the 100 meter!

Wait, do you smell something? It's a familiar smell, like something from...a rose garden, but it's not roses...Hmmmmm. I think it's FERTELIZER! The natural kind. The kind that bulls make.

This putative study was done by a Dr. Steven Haltiwanger, MD CCN (the CCN is for "certified clinical nutritionist', I looked that up). The good doctor only seems to Google up (so to speak) on web pages that have something to do with Lifewave products.

That seemed odd.

One site had a bit of his Bio. Apparently he's been an"Orthomolecular Board Certified Psychiatrist for 17 years" WTF is the "Orthomolecular Board"? Well, they seem to only come up in close association with Dr. Nick Rive--oh excuse me, Dr.Haltiwanger. Smelling fishey yet?

But wait, there's more. The doctor is also "Adjunct Professor of the Capital University of Integrated Medicine". An (ahem) institution that is, according to Quackwatch.org, a "nonaccredited school headquartered in Washington, D.C., .... Its offerings include "Doctor of Integrated Medicine" and "Master of Integrated Health Science" ... It appears to have closed in 2003. "

And guess what...It's an MLM! That's right! we can all get rich by selling this and (most importantly) getting others to sell it for us! So not only will we be super athletes, we'll be rich as hell too!
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 01:37 PM
Well Joe, thats interesting, when will your report be out on the new rocket fuel your developing.
JoeSixpack
Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 01:40 PM
I'm finished developing it, I just need distributors. 😉
Terry Austin
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 02:15 PM
I find it interesting they use a "patent blend" of herbs and spiced, rather than a "patented blend."

Patent blend, as in, patent medicine.

In other words, they admit it's snake oil
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 02:32 PM
Well, I'm not spending a dime on this shit until they prove to me that it'll help in my quest for DNA perfection... otherwise is meaningless. Also, I'd need Natasha to look inside my body while taking it to confirm that it's actually working! Satisfy those two requirements and I'm on board...

😊
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 02:34 PM
"otherwise is meaningless"... OOPS

otherwise it's meaningless
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 02:36 PM
I am selling vial's of my own Blood for those of you seeking DNA perfection.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 03:01 PM
I'll buy some of your blood, but only because I want to clone the worlds first <a href="http://sphinx1976.blogspot.com/">blogger</a>, increase his <a href="http://www.axe2grind.net/axe2grind.html">attractiveness</a>, see if I can feed him to an <a href="http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/2523/">animal</a> and then skip work to go to his <a href="http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/607/">funeral.</a>
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 03:13 PM
I don't really know how to respond to that, so consider this my response. :zip:
mikey
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 | 08:07 PM
hi--- ive had personal experience with this "Dr" Haltiwanger and yes he was a psychiatrist in valdosta georgia at a treatment facility named greenleaf--- he was supposedly out to help everyone and was the main doc. Dr. H was really big on natural meds as well as psychotropics and all and I mean all of his patients ended up with about 2 cupfuls of pills to take every night. To give you an example of how health conscious this man really is he had me on Mellaril, lithium, tegretol, ativan, klonpin, risperdal, effexor and thyrolar ervery day in addition to the 8 vitamins that he had me on. Now let me tell those of you who do not know but the vitamins may have been good for me but all those others were a chemical lobotomy. I have depression nothing more. By the way, this Dr. H who touts himself to be so high and mighty and upstanding?;
his license is currently on probation in georgia for self prescribing injectible demerol and a few other naughty things. You can read the public board order against him on the georgia medical board web site. thought you all might like this info guys
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 | 01:57 AM
Mikey, if true, that's simply amazing--and appalling. You should contact your state's medical board and notify them of the cocktail of drugs this guy (allegedly) had you on. I say "allegedly" because I have no way of knowing if what you are saying is true. I'm not calling you a liar, please understand, but I don't have first-hand knowledge of what you are saying.

Anyway, if your story is accurate, seriously, you really should let the state know about what this guy did to you and others. That's hardly a standard treatment for simple depression.
matt
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 | 05:54 AM
im not going to say anything. Im going to buy just a month of supply give it to my pe teacher and have him test the stuff out on himself first. And if he says that its ok ill give the rest to the whole soccer team next year and do a test on it with the help of my biology teacher. Guys give me 4-5 months and i'll give you proof myself. I am a student myself and my dad told me about this. My dad was and is kind of still in mlm and thats how he heard of it. I did cross country, and softball and i'm currently paying rugby. right now i run about an average of 2400 or 6 laps of 400 meters in 12 mins and i have one of the patches with me. im expecting at least a 20% improvement, thats about 7 laps or 2880 meters. i'll do the test next monday and report to you guys what i got.
Just a random guy
in in a hospital, out of a long coma
 Member
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 | 07:35 AM
I like how it has Sean May right on the page, but doesn't say anything about him using the product at all 😛

I think that this site is a manufactured project from the atoms of a crock of S***.

Just a thought 😉
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 | 07:45 PM
I do not know how they work, I just know that they do. I was a professional hockey player and I am a coach for the Dallas Stars, and I can tell you they work.

I have worn them in games and there is an immediate difference. I have let other players try them and they had more energy. I am one of the most skeptical people out there, and I do not beleive in chi and crap like that. All I know is that for me and my players they work.

If you want to try them you can get them and learn more about them here. http://www.lifewave.com/cyntergistics

Thank You,


Dan A. Stalfire
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 | 12:38 AM
Dan Stalfire said:

"I do not know how they work, I just know that they do. I was a professional hockey player and I am a coach for the Dallas Stars, and I can tell you they work.

"I have worn them in games and there is an immediate difference. I have let other players try them and they had more energy. I am one of the most skeptical people out there, and I do not beleive in chi and crap like that. All I know is that for me and my players they work."

Dan, if you know anything about scientific research, you know that anecdotal accounts mean little or nothing. The fact that you don't believe in chi (good for you by the way) doesn't mean that you can't be swayed by the placebo effect.

Tell you what. If you honestly think these things relieve pain or whatever, you should immediately contact the James Randi Educational Foundation at randi.org. The Foundation has a million-dollar prize I believe you would be able to collect if you can demonstrate that these stupid things work under controlled conditions.

You risk nothing and you stand to gain a million dollars. Pretty good deal, huh? Go for it! Be prepared, however, to have your faith in this quackery proven wrong.
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 | 09:46 AM
I apreciate you for not slaming me for my belief. I really did not beleive that they worked until I tried them, and I do not know how they do. You are right, it very well could be a placebo effect, but there is an immediate and atleast it feels like a real diffence in my players.

Dan
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 | 07:29 PM
Dan Stalfire said:

"I apreciate you for not slaming me for my belief. I really did not beleive that they worked until I tried them, and I do not know how they do. You are right, it very well could be a placebo effect, but there is an immediate and atleast it feels like a real diffence in my players."

Shucks, I didn't slam you because you weren't a jerk. I think you're wrong but that doesn't make you a bad guy.

After all, these things are advertised and designed to make you think that they work, so I can hardly blame someone for being fooled by them. Please understand that I don't mean to insult you by my use of the word "fooled." If anyone's at fault here, it's the people who make this crap and sell it to the public.

But seriously, you should consider applying for the JREF Prize. After all, either the things don't work, in which case you'd be doing a service to the public by informing them of that fact or they DO work, in which case science will be advanced by learning what the mechanism is.

Either way, good luck with your team.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 | 11:42 PM
If Cranky Media Guy won't insult him, I will. I think Dan has taken one too many pucks in the head. Now he's having delusions about being a professional hockey coach. Maybe the Dallas Stars just forgot to include him in their list of coaches on the team's web site.
<a href="http://www.dallasstars.com">Dallas Stars</a>
Click on: The Stars/Coaches
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 | 02:19 AM
Captain Al said:

"If Cranky Media Guy won't insult him, I will. I think Dan has taken one too many pucks in the head. Now he's having delusions about being a professional hockey coach. Maybe the Dallas Stars just forgot to include him in their list of coaches on the team's web site."

My uncharacteristically sweet demeanor was based on the fact that he didn't act like a flaming douchebag. If, however, he is a phony, well, that's a different story.

Hey, maybe the patches cause a "reality distortion field" using vibrations or something, making people think they are in professional sports.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 | 10:15 AM
CMG:
I commend you on your restraint. You are right in that he did not come off like a flippin' idiot. But I lose patience very quickly when I see stuff like this and people defending it. One look at the Lifewave website shows they are totally out to lunch. They even say they do not know how it 'works'. They just believe it may work a certain way. Did they just discover it by accident in the lab? Found out it had all these amazing properties! That sounds more like 19th century alchemist's logic to me.
By the way, I don't think it would qualify for the JREF prize because it could not be verified. A player's performance is a subjective thing. I'm sure his mother would say he's getting better. But how do you know he wasn't trying as hard before? And in a competitive sport like hockey or football, how do you cancel out the performance of the opposition?
In the 1970s, the coach of the NHL Toronto Maple Leafs, was a believer in pyramid power. He placed small pyramids under the player's bench during games in the belief it would improve the team's performance. The Leafs had not won the league championship since 1967 (and still have not to this day). Needless to say it did not help. If I remember correctly, after a while he gave up on pyramids and tried crystals or something like that. A true professional.
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 | 10:23 AM
I knew it would last too long. I guess I am done here, a good conversation has turned into name calling and unprofessionalism. Everyone is entiled to their beliefs.

Btw http://www.planokings.com and I coach the Wolverines a minor league affiliate of the Stars.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 | 10:54 AM
Dan, no one is saying you are not entitled to your beliefs. It's just that your beliefs on this topic seem illogical. In other words, I'm not buying it for a second. It takes more than, "We feel more energetic" to make a case for Lifewave Energy Patches. The scientific principles behind it, if there are any, go against everything we know about the human body. Positive and negative areas? FM modulation to body parts? You may have to fire your team doctor since everything he was taught must be false.
If you come up with any hard data, we'd love to hear it. If any of your players become the next Wayne Gretzky, you may have something. But then how would we know he wouldn't have been a 'great one' without them?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 | 05:36 PM
Captain Al, well, I kind of go by Randi's standards. He's said on his site that while we certainly should challenge people's beliefs in the supernatural, etc. we shouldn't be gratuitously rude to them.

I share your exasperation with belief in the ridiculous. It's amazing to me that in an era in which REAL science has made such strides (remember, there are still a few people alive who were born before there were airplanes!) there are millions who unquestioningly trust in utter nonsense.

As for the JREF Prize, while I''m in no position to speak for James Randi, I have directly emailed him in the past to ask whether similar things would qualify for the Prize so that I could inform the supporter they had a bundle waiting for them.

As for testing the patches it occurs to me that it could be done using identical-looking "placebos" made of a completely different material. If the people given the "placebos" also reported pain relief, etc. it would tend to indicate that the "real" ones were also placebos.

The JREF Challenges are always conducted using protocols agreed to by the claimant(s) so if they said that, yes, patches made of a different material shouldn't work, if in fact they did, that would be pretty damning.

I'm not holding my breath for the people selling these things to agree to anything like that, though.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 | 08:51 AM
CMG, I guess I was a little hard on Dan. He was not defending the product, just relaying his observations as a professional who actually tried it. I should have accepted his input and waited for him to come to some conclusion. So if you are still reading Dan, I apologize and hope you will continue to participate.

When challenging people on things like this I sometimes show no respect, like Randi suggests, because skeptics often do not get the same in return (I know, a poor excuse). In this week's commentary, Randi relates an email exchange from someone who was applying for the paranormal challenge. The claim was absolutely ludicrous and this person just could not understand what he had to do to prove it. It's quite funny to read. Randi included it to show just what they go through sometimes. I bet there are days when he wishes he never thought of the JREF Paranormal Challenge.
<a href="http://www.randi.org/jr/041505hollywood.html#11">James Randi Weekly Commentary</a>
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 | 11:52 AM
I am just trying to get to the bottom line do they work or not. I know the science would say know, but how could so many people of bought into athe placebo test, plus thier web site http://lifewave.com/studies.asp sites studies of that show positive results.

Has anyone here tried them?

Dan
Winona
in USA
 Member
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 | 12:00 PM
Not here that I know of, but I'd love to hear the results if you were to try them. 😊
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 | 02:15 PM
Dan Stalfire said:

"I am just trying to get to the bottom line do they work or not. I know the science would say know, but how could so many people of bought into athe placebo test..."

How can so many people believe in astrology?
How can so many people believe in feng shui?
How can so many people believe in homeopathy?
How can so many people believe in dowsing?
How can so many people believe in transubstantiation?

Get the point? None of these things can be proven to work. They all defy logic and the known laws of physics, yet people believe in them because they WANT to.

"...plus thier web site http://lifewave.com/studies.asp sites studies of that show positive results."

I can come up with "test results" that will "prove" that I can fly. Would you believe them if I showed them to you? Just because something is written down, that doesn't mean that it isn't a lie.

How were the "tests" conducted? Who conducted them? Was there a control group? Were there any tests actually conducted at all?
smegster
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 | 10:07 PM
WEll I have been hit up by one of the pilots that swear by these things. He gave me a set to try out as I do the red Eye... [low seniority you know]but my gut says to run from any MLM! I'll let your know the effects/affects.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 | 03:33 AM
Captain Al said:

"In this week's commentary, Randi relates an email exchange from someone who was applying for the paranormal challenge. The claim was absolutely ludicrous and this person just could not understand what he had to do to prove it. It's quite funny to read. Randi included it to show just what they go through sometimes. I bet there are days when he wishes he never thought of the JREF Paranormal Challenge."

I've had the same thought when I read about some of the inanity Randi has to put up with. As he says though, "This is the job we've chosen."

I'm a huge Randi fan. He and I share a mutual friend, Alan Abel, and one of my points of pride is that I've corresponded a few times with Randi via email. I actually get excited about Fridays because I know he'll have a new entry on his website. Indirectly through Randi, we got my daughter's high school to stop some homeopathic nonsense her science teacher was spewing.

I'm hoping to get back to Florida one of these days so I can stop by the JREF and meet him. I hate to say it but Randi isn't a young man (not that I am these days either) and I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to talk to him in person. Maybe I should just save up some money and go to next year's Amazing Meeting.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 | 08:57 AM
CMG:
I also look forward to Fridays so I can read the latest Randi commentary. I agree he would be a fasinating person to meet and the thought of going to next year's Amazing Meeting crossed my mind too. As a bonus, we would get to meet Phil Plait, the Bad Astronomer, and others from CISCOP (The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal).
Harmony Hampton
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:17 PM
I understand how you all can be so skeptical. But have you ever thought that maybe they really do work. Because I believe that they do. Also, even if they don't work, and they are just a placebo, what's the harm? If it make people feel better who are you to trash it? And about the Sean May comment: He was wearing the patches and they do mention that he did. I'm not trying to be harsh. I just think that if you don't like them fine, but don't critize those who belive in them and who are physically and mentally better because of them. On their webisite they have a 10 page document on the science of these patches and how they work. http://www.lifewave.com/studies_ds_intro.asp
Take a look.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 07:07 PM
Harmony Hampton said:

"I understand how you all can be so skeptical. But have you ever thought that maybe they really do work. Because I believe that they do."

Are you trying to say that your BELIEF that they work somehow constitutes proof that they DO? Here's how things work: When someone asserts that something that violates the known laws of physics works, the burden of proof is on THEM, not the people who say, "I don't believe it." We skeptics do not have to prove anything; the people who are selling these things have to prove that they DO work. Period.

"Also, even if they don't work, and they are just a placebo, what's the harm? If it make people feel better who are you to trash it?"

Well, if they are placebos (as I and others believe) then they are selling something under false pretenses. After all, do they ADMIT that they are placebos anywhere in their sales literature or website?

What's the harm in that? Well, has it occurred to you that there may be people who have legitimate medical problems who are foregoing REAL medical care in lieu of using these things?

Tell you what: You must have SOME kind of medical problem, even if it's minor, right? Maybe your ears ring sometimes or you have excessive was in them.

It's your Lucky Day. I happen to have a secret process by which I can CURE whatever your problem is, large or small. All you have to do is send me some money. $50. will do nicely.

Suppose I said that and some people actually did send me money. You realize that I have no such ability to cure anything, right? Well, if they believe that they feel better after sending the money to me, what's the harm?

"I just think that if you don't like them fine, but don't critize those who belive in them and who are physically and mentally better because of them."

What evidence do you have that anyone is actually better because of using them (other than the placebo effect, that is)?

"On their webisite they have a 10 page document on the science of these patches and how they work. http://www.lifewave.com/studies_ds_intro.asp
Take a look."

Nonsense, no matter how extensive, is still nonsense. I refer you to something called the Urantia Project. Look for it via Google. Enjoy.
LB
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 11:02 AM
Anyone can be a skeptic. It's easy. Did any of the skeptics try the Lifewave Energy Patches? I'm not going to debate the studies or even the testimonials. They can be manufactured. I'm just asking what gives you the right to call it a hoax if you have not tried them? Seems from what I've read here, those who have tried them say they work. Who are you to say they don't?

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, that's all it is.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 11:54 AM
LB,
Yes, skepticism is easy. You should give it a try. I'm willing to bet none of the skeptics have tried them. I haven't. The reason is, anyone with even a shred of scientific knowledge can see from Livewave's website that they are full of shit. None of their explanations make any sense what so ever. It seems a lot of people are easily fooled by Star Trek-ese terminology. In any case these studies and testimonials are from Livewave. It's exactly what I would expect them to say given they have a financial interest in their product. The real test is to see if any other organization can duplicate their alledged results. The fact that no one seems in a hurry to do this does not mean the jury is still out. Science does not have the time to investigate every wacko claim that comes along. So it's only natural that the ones this far off the mark of known science are ignored. And don't expect Livewave to lead the charge for further study. They don't want to be exposed for what they really are.
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:24 PM
Easily fooled maybe, but they work. I have tried them, I have given them to peole to try, and the results are there. I do not know how they work. They just do.

Dan
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 01:02 PM
Dan,
I know you and your hockey team have tried them but you all heard the claims before your tried them. That could have set everyone up for the placebo effect.
May I suggest a simple experiment: If you get any new players on your team, don't tell them about Livewave Energy Patches. Wait a short time until you know their capabilities. Then sneak into the dressing room before a game or practice and put the patches in their equipment. Then you can rate their performance before and after use.
Another experiment: Make up some fake patches for the players that do know about them. Give them out before a game or practice (of course, without telling them they are fake). Then ask them afterwards if they still feel they helped.
These experiments are unscientific but could give some meaningful data.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 01:54 AM
Dan Stalfire said:

"Easily fooled maybe, but they work. I have tried them, I have given them to peole to try, and the results are there. I do not know how they work. They just do."

Dan, *I* know how they "work." They "work" in exactly the same way that telling your players that you've found an amazing new pain-relieving product and then duct-taping Roosevelt dimes to their foreheads (without letting them see that they were just dimes) would "work."

Repeat after me: "Placebo effect! Placebo effect!"
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 08:39 AM
Does something have to enter the body to have an effect or change a behavior? Maybe, but how do you explain the phenominom "spelling" behind womens menstral cycles aligning when two or more live in the same house? If 3 women move in together with different cycles, with in a few months they align and happen at the same time.

All I am saying is maybe we do not undestand everything? Just maybe.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 08:53 AM
Dan,
You are absolutely right. We do not understand everything. But we do understand a lot. In fact we understand more than enough to prejudge this product. Otherwise we have to accept that everything we have learned about the human body up to this point is false. What does your team doctor say about Livewave Energy Patches?
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 08:59 AM
That he does not understand how or if they work.
LB
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 09:20 AM
Obviously, the 1200 + Healthcare professionals, Medical Doctors, Chiropractors, Naturopathic Doctors are convinced of the efficacy of the Lifewave Energy Patches.

A Double-Blind Placebo Controlled Study to Evaluate the Possible Performance Enhancing Effects of the LifeWave
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 12:29 PM
"I'm not going to debate the studies or even the testimonials. They can be manufactured."

It seems LB has changed his policy from a previous post.

An internet search of Google and Yahoo turns up hundreds of hits on "Lifewave Energy Patches". I did not have time to check every one, but almost all the first hundred were from people who sell the product. They all praised the product with different combinations of promotional material (apparently supplied by Lifewave) citing the same studies and the same testimonials. Using a multi-level marketing scheme to sell a product is one of the classic traits of a scam. However, that's not conclusive evidence. I then tried to search specifically for studies done by independent researchers but could find absolutely none. All hits were from the same Livewave promotional materials. Very suspicious. Wouldn't legitimate institutions report their findings on their own websites and journals? Isn't there anyone who performed studies on the product that also does not sell it?

Even more suspicious is the 'study' done by Joseph A. Goodson, Head Athletic Trainer, Moorehouse College, Atlanta, GA. Moorehouse College, according to their <a href="http://www.morehouse.edu/">website</a>, does not have a Physiology Department. Very stange since they are perported to be doing research in this area. In fact, further searching reveals Mr. Goodson is not head of the Athletic Training Department since there appears to be no such thing. Goodson is listed as Head Trainer of the football team and only because there is an Assistant Trainer. The basketball team has its own 'Trainer'. So we are left with a 'study', done by someone with no academic credentials (<a href="http://www.morehouse.edu/athletics/directory.html">who misrepresents himself</a>), using only 44 subjects and of course the 'study' does not appear in any peer reviewed journals. I should also mention that a writer in one of the non-distributor internet hits claims that Goodson himself is a Livewave distributor. What a surprise.

Why aren't Livewave Energy Patches sold in major department stores and pharmacies? And I wonder why such important research with ground-breaking technology merits no official mention by Moorehouse College? Why don't major universities doing physiology research do some proper scientific studies? Probably because they don't have the time or resources to waste on junk science when there is so much legitimate research to be done.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 03:01 PM
My apologies to Morehouse College for spelling their name wrong.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 05:17 PM
No apologies to Lifewave for sometimes misspelling their name.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 | 02:23 AM
LB said:

"The Lifewave Energy Patches work and they work within a matter of minutes. I use testing bars with gauges, that show a measurable increase in strength. I always do a baseline test first, then test again with the patches. There is usually a distinct increase in strenth with the patches. A couple of times there was not."


What is a "testing bar?" How many people did you test with it/them? Was it a statistically significant number or was it a handful of people? When you say a "couple of times" the patch wasn't effective, how many is that? Was it one percent of the people tested, FIFTY percent?

"Once the person I was testing having rotator cuff problem and getting weaker with each test. Another time my test subject did not get improvement the first time, I had her drink a glass of water. When her dehydratioin was relieved, she got an increase in strength with the patches."

How do you know her alleged increase in strength was directly attributable to the patch and ONLY the patch? Could it be that she had some rest while she was drinking the water and simply felt better? Did you even TRY to rule out other factors?

"There are a small percentage of people who do not benefit from them, but they work well for the majority of people."

How do you know this? You can't possibly have tested a majority of people. What you SEEM to mean is that they "work well" for the majority of people YOU HAVE TESTED. Correct? How many people have you tested in total? Again I ask, did you try to rule out other factors?
MeBrainsBig
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 | 08:49 PM
Dan Stalfire is an "entrepreneur" out of Plano Texas. Check out http://www.inventorsipo.com
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 | 12:18 AM
MeBrainsBig said:

"Dan Stalfire is an "entrepreneur" out of Plano Texas. Check out http://www.inventorsipo.com"

Do we KNOW that it's the same Dan Stalfire?
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 | 08:37 AM
That is me, I also owned Job Center, Inc, Vision Clear USA, LLC, and Internet Marketing Images, Inc.

I do allot.

Dan
Spenblu
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 11:02 AM
I've been looking at this stuff for a while and knowing MLM's well I was immediately distrustful, I use to work for one on the IT side of things. I also agree that the people from LifeWave would not publish a negative study/review on their web, however. I do believe that in order to debunk and call this product a hoax you would either have to find a study that portrays the product negatively or conduct one of your own, and "Prove It". Remeber that 100 years ago if you told people that there were "x-rays" that they could not see, they would call you a "NUT", and the Star Trek nonsense of today may seem far fetched, but I was around when the original Star Trek was around and many of the "impossible gadgets" from the show exist today. I personally walk around with a small wireless device on my ear, that allows me to communicate with people thousands of miles away. I'm hearing many positive comments from people who have tried it and had good results, on the other hand I only hear the ranting of one or two who have not tried it, and do not have any "FACTS" to disprove any of the claims.

Like I said, I haven't tried it, yet, but if I can spend $4000.00 on an ultra light bicycle with the best and lightest components, I think I can blow $80.00 to try this out and see for myself.

PS: I can also buy movie tickets online from my Blackberry while sitting on the toilet, ten years ago you would have called me silly!
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 11:14 AM
If anyone wants to try it go to http://www.cynetergistics.com

Dan
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 11:15 AM
opps it is http://www.cyntergistics.com
Spenblu
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 11:31 AM
Would that happen to be your associate page... :coolsmirk:
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 12:22 PM
Yes I am a reseller of the product.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 02:05 PM
Since we're already linking to Lifewave in the Topic I'll leave this link. If Alex disagrees he can remove it.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 05:26 PM
Spenblu, so which of those impossible Star Trek gadgets are around today? Who has a dilithium crystal matter/anti-matter drive? Or a transporter? Tractor beam? Oh, how about a sub-space radio that allows instant communication with headquarters hundreds of light-years away? Even Kirk's hand-held communicator is far-fetched since it appears to work without repeaters even if the Enterprise is on the other side of the planet. (It's in orbit, remember). Just because a science fiction writer dreamed them up does not mean they will someday be possible. They may or may not. If so, things like that will be far into the future. If someone told you tomorrow they had a photon torpedo, would you believe them? Presently they are just plot devices for prime time TV. (Spaceships today may be more advanced. At least they have seatbelts to keep the crew from being tossed around the cabin).
In the same way, Lifewave patches have no basis in reality. I don't think you have read their literature. If you had you would laugh your ass off. I don't count myself as a medical expert. Far from it, but I can recognize bullshit when I see it. To say their patch acts as a miniature radio transmitter sending signals to the positive and negative areas of the body is going way too far. "Software for the body"? Give me a break. In fact, I saw one comment from a user that described them as "salad dressing in a polymer shell". If I want my intelligence insulted, I'll go to the Vatican website.
Not all scientific claims deserve the same consideration. If an astronomer says that Jupiter has 64 moons, not 63, that claim could very well be true since astronomers are discovering new ones all the time. It would probably merit further investigation. But if a 12 year old boy with a Tasco telescope sticking out his bedroom window says the same thing, it's very likely he will be ignored. In the same way, if someone tries to sell a time machine on E-Bay, physicists don't start a bidding war over it. So pardon me if I don't fork over money to experiment with Lifewave patches myself. And besides I don't need any facts to disprove their claims. The burden of proof is on them and even they say they don't "know" how it works, they only "believe" it works a certain way. Doesn't that show a lot of confidence. Sounds like they are more concerned about lawsuits. Let's wait a year or two and see if Lifewave patches are still around or become just another passing fad.
Lerine
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 07:22 PM
My god, do they really expect us to belive this?


DOES anyone fall for this??

lol
Dan Stalfire
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 07:39 PM
Good points!

Have you tried them?

Dan

http://www.cyntergistics.com
Spenblu
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 | 10:46 PM
Like I said before, I don't sell them, haven't tried them, but I cannot honestly call it a hoax until I have solid evidence. Unlike some I don't like to AFIRM anything until I know for a fact. The one thing I have to say, is that so far I have not heard from anyone who has used it and thought it did not work. Normally when I'm researching things in places like this, I usually find unhappy customers who claim to have used it and nothing happened, so far the only people that knock the product down are people who have NEVER tried it. You claim that you are not a doctor or have the training, but you claim to have a BS meter that is so precise that it can acertain that this product is a hoax.

I'm going to keep looking a little more, maybe try to find someone who is not happy with the results, if there is anyone...
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 | 01:57 AM
OK, let's clear this up for the last time. We who doubt the veracity of these things have to prove NOTHING.

The makers and supporters of the LifeWave patches, who are making claims which defy the known laws of physics, bear the burden of proof.

If they are so certain of their claims, why don't they apply for the million dollar prize offered by the James Randi Educational Foundation. The details are available at randi.org

What plausible reason can they give for not trying to take an easy million dollars by merely demonstrating the claims they make?

If *I* had invented (or sold) something so revolutionary that it defied the known laws of physics, not only would I apply for a Nobel Prize, but I would happily take Mr. Randi's million dollars.

Put up or shut up, LifeWave people!
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