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LifeWave Energy Patches
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Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
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Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".
http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm
We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918 |
Comments
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Page 11 of 99 pages ‹ First < 9 10 11 12 13 > Last › |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 | 05:02 PM
Oh Money,
You poor misguided soul. Sorry that I thought you were a good person.
Let me explain...try to keep up.
For those that have read my posts to this forum for the past 2 months, my views about the LifeWave pyramid MLM scam are well known.
We have seen time and time again the predictable line of responses from anonymous LifeWavers.
"You must have a personal grudge against David Schmidt" "Why don't you try the patches" "The patches work" "I don't know how they work I just know they do" ad nauseum.
There is NO product. The placebo patches, containing glucose and glycerin, as reported by David Schmidt to the company (MVA) testing the patches in 2004,are grossly overpriced placebos.
Therefore, it IS about the product, or lack of a real product, AND the money that you and many others are taking from unsuspecting "believers" who have been conned by your fancy advertising and flash Las Vegas indoctrination presentations.
The only stuck record here is your record of outrageous claims for a placebo product that cannot be substantiated by any accepted methods known to science.
You live in a surreal world where you believe you are the good guys and everyone else is against you. Your level of paranoia and delusion goes deep, but many in the company "know" the truth behind the fascade.
Keep up the rhetoric. It will give many people great pleasure to see you fall from the top of the pyramid.
It IS about the exhorbitant price for a placebo.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 12:19 AM
The thing that gets me about the LifeWave True Believers is that they clearly have never read *anything* about scams of the recent past. If they had, they would almost be *forced* to realize that they are a virtual carbon copy of the people who fell for those rackets.
The language, the way the "business" is conducted, the pyramidal structure, the cultlike nature, the ridiculous arguing against reason, are all the same. Oh, but THIS time the anti-scientific bullshit will work. THIS time is NOTHING like all the others. Uh huh. What's that saying about those who refuse to learn from history? Something about being doomed to repeat it? Yup. I hope those patches are edible; some of you True Believers may need that when the dust settles. |
M0nk
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 05:13 AM
Hold on, I put the tan patch on my left butt cheek and the white one on the right and I farted and had to replace my front car seat. Is this normal?
M0nk |
Dr.Boris
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 07:27 AM
Yes, Monk.
This is how placebo effect work. |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 10:18 AM
MOnk
It's your body CLEANSING itself! LOL
All part of the process of preparing your body to accept the instructions from the wireless phone-like transmitters inside the patches.
Very interesting............
Mind you, the notion of that extra propulsion from the exit of the gas could prove VERY useful to our 100m athletes!
Picture this:
As the runner approaches the winning line, and still trailing behind the first place runner, the patches instruct his body to expel GAS.
WHOOSH.........he is propelled forward with that extra bit of speed and VOILA.....he wins by a cheek.
If the event is at night, the timing of the gas propulsion could be matched with a tiny spark that the patches instruct be made from static electricity.
WOW.....a flame trail for everyone to see.
The next Olympics will be riveting!
God Bless LifeWave.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 02:27 PM
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 03:13 AM
Hold on, I put the tan patch on my left butt cheek and the white one on the right and I farted and had to replace my front car seat. Is this normal?
M0nk
Part II
Our good friend Scubasteve11 gave poster MARK valuable insight back in August.....
Mark - sorry the patches didn't work for you. They usually are not noticeable if you are doing nothing. Get some exercise, get in shape, write down your workouts and then wear them for a week.
Also in August
I encourage you to keep trying them on various points until you find the spot that works best for you. With some experimenting you WILL find a spot that works for you. Drink lots of water and wear them for 4 days straight on various acupoints. Some people are toxic and it takes 3 or 4 days for the patches to open up the bodies meridians.
August 15
Sounds like you are very fit. Have you tried the Liver 3 spot to detox your body?? Kidney 6 point is also very good for running.
August 17
Still running!! And still feeling good. A few more hours and I can apply my sleep patch. Good Night!! zzz zzz
So, I guess it's all about perspective.
MOnk put them on his buttocks and got a smelly reaction.
If you exercise, drink plenty of water, get in shape, do some running...that type of thing, then before you have chance to notice that you feel much fitter than you used to, put on the patches and hey presto...you feel good.
Truly amazing.
If you put on the patches and feel nothing...then you had better start your running, exercising , drinking water, running regimen, so that you are able to experience the full benefit of the patches instructions from their cell phones to your cells. Was it make ATP or buy ATT? The reception is a little poor, better drink some more water.
Come back scubasteve11, I miss you.
Is it all about a grossly overpriced placebo of glucose and glycerin?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 07:41 PM
Well worth a look:
http://www.quatloos.com/mlm/mlm.htm
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 08:39 PM
Good link EDHUK.
Makes me wonder why I would buy LifeWave patches from anyone on this forum when I could get them from LifeWave directly for the same price. Hell, I could get the dealer price just by pretending I was interested in selling to others.
A simple search on the Internet turns up HUNDREDS of "dealers". Why would one of them be any different from the others? How many Internet dealers do we need? And if this is a legitimate product, why does Lifewave need other people to advertise on the Internet for them? Wouldn't it be smarter to just keep all the sales for themselves? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think the "dealers" haven't yet caught on to the fact that they are the end customer. |
vegas
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 10:21 PM
you idiots have NO clue the caliber of people that were at the Conf. & the studies being done & by the way no matter what a couple of X band guys with NO life say or spread around on the NET , we will keep patching people & keep making money & getting benefits from the product as well, also everyone laughs at you...HAHA F*ckin HA |
Another Vegas
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 10:53 PM
The Vegas Conference was great, there are a magnitude of things happening. The studies are here, not something that is going to continue to get postponed.
I will say I disagree with "vegas'" attitude towards the rest of the forum or those whom he mentioned as "idiots". I think you are doing your due diligence. I don't agree, of course, with everything that is said, if I did, I wouldn't be involved with LifeWave. I love the products. I don't believe in outright attacks from either side of the debate (and it has been happening from both sides).
I love the product and I love the effects that I have been receiving for the last 9 months when working out. I'm not here to say, "why haven't you tried them" or to receive "you like the product because it's a placebo". I'm just giving my opinion for what it's worth.
If I do receive a "placebo, placebo", I thank you in advance for your opinion. |
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 | 11:07 PM
I guess first thing Monday morning we are going to hear all about these long awaited studies. I won't be able to sleep tonight. If only I had a couple of those patches... |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 04:38 AM
we will keep patching people & keep making money
vegas
Sums it up nicely.
Is it all about a grossly overpriced placebo?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Waver
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 04:58 AM
Just stepped off the plane from Vegas and am too tired to list all of the doctors and scientists that spoke, but don't worry I will later.
And to WWSN, I had a nice 30 minute conversation with your buddy David Jumper in Las Vegas. A very interesting fellow. |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 05:26 AM
WAVER
Why would you be "...too tired"?
You use the LifeWave Energy Patches!
Duh.
Is it all about a grossly overpriced placebo?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Miss Cynic
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 11:53 AM
I have to applaud you folks here that are firm in your skepticism and questioning the veracity of the people involved in these patches. Go ahead and question mine, too. I don't mind. I'm a huge skeptic myself, and while I think Mr. Randi has his own agenda to follow, I've been a big fan of his for years. I'm also a devout Christian, so you can see where I might have disagreement with him, yourselves, and many others.
I belong to three MLM programs that market what I believe are useful products. Now, maybe they're not useful to anyone but me, but as a distributor, I get to take advantage of some minor discounts and that means a lot to me. I think MLMs in general are cheap ways to scam folks out of their money. Does that make me an idiot for "falling" for the scam? I don't know. Maybe in the eyes of another. For what I get, for what I expect to get, I'm fine with what I've gotten. Are the products I use (sell) simply fraudulent manifestations of junk science? Am I totally duped by the slick marketing schemes and manipulative wording of so-called "clinical studies" and overblown hype of personal testimonials. Well, you tell me. I have a brain, and it works fairly well for what I need it for.
What I don't have is a body that works very well. Lucky me, I managed to contract a few maladies along the road of life, through no apparent self-abuse that I can remember. Never did drugs of any kind, never smoked and always limited alcohol to the "just buzzed" stage. Still, a few years back, when I was working hard to make a living and enjoying my life, I was rewarded with a chronic pain condition that eventually robbed me of my ability to earn a living in the only way I had acquired knowledge and skill. Since leaving that behind, I've been in a position of needing to work menial jobs, struggle to maintain a roof over my head, put food in my mouth, etc., etc., boo hoo hoo. I don't mention that to derive pity, just as background information.
When I first got involved with an MLM, I was willing to follow the line of thinking these slick marketers have to prod you into annoying your family and friends and alienating everyone you contact, but quickly realized this sort of activity was counter-productive to any real income producing. So, then, early on, as I do now, I eschew all the goading, prodding and marketing hype of the companies I'm involved with (and yes, Life Wave is one of them). They annoy and irritate me with their multiple emails, phony promises and the worst - conference calls! Talk about a way to separate a fool from his money! I tried out ONE conference call, on the promise that what was discussed was going to be HUGE and VERY IMPORTANT (emphasis theirs). What I heard was information that could have easily been emailed out, combined with a whole lot of rah-rah hyperbole that meant nothing. There was no "discussion" as much as a pre-scripted infomercial.
continued in next post |
Miss Cynic
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 11:54 AM
So, I have paid due diligence to the topic of MLM schemes and scams and have been able to discern reality from fiction.
Why am I still involved with three MLMs? Obviously, I have no intentions of getting rich. In fact, I'm organizing to file Chapter 7 here pretty quick. I'm still involved because the products work for me and for most of the people and animals I sell them to and for. The Life Wave patches have been a huge help to me, personally. I don't even care if it's placebo effect or not. The first time I tried them, I was convinced they were bogus, felt no apparent increase in energy whatsoever, and remained completely skeptical and negative toward them. I continued to use them and was surprised to begin feeling more energy. Having more energy allowed me to be able to move more, and more movement means less pain to me. Again, this is my experience, and if it works for me, I'll continue to use it. If it's only placebo, I don't mind.
But, I still haven't figured out why they work so well on animals. I haven't been given any logical explanation of the placebo effect in animals. If the power of the human mind is so strong, it can even effect the mind of an animal, then it seems we ought to be focusing all of our resources on using the placebo effect to improve our lives in the ways in which we now depend solely on modern science and machinization. But, as Mr. Randi has often pointed out, in various ways, bending spoons with yer brain is bogus. Your car won't get better gas mileage just because you think it will. No matter how focused you get, you're not going to defy the laws of math and physics by the power of your mind.
The Life Wave patches are helping me. I feel better. Any good marketer will tell you that people don't buy products and services, they buy good feelings and solutions to problems. That is how the MLM world survives.
I'm not interested in selling patches to you folks. I'm not interested in selling patches to anyone who doesn't want them or believe in them. I'm not making money on them, just spending it, and to tell you the truth, the company has got me ticked off with the way they're handling the "compensation" part on MY end of the deal. They've got a huge money making machine going on, and none of it is coming my way. It isn't going to stop me from buying patches for my own personal use. They work for me. I feel better. Even my animals seem to feel better, remarkably so.
Please continue to be skeptical. Please continue to root out truth and expose hoaxes. You are performing a valuable service, even if you encounter resistance and hostility among "true believers." Information creates knowledge and knowledge creates power, even if it's only the power for one person to make a decision for himself or herself. The more information you provide, the more responsibility you give to the person who either heeds your advice or disregards it. I'm not going to say the patches don't work, because for me, they do. I'm not going to say I believe all the "science" behind the marketing of the patches. I'm not going to defend or attack any person connected with the company. That doesn't matter to me. If I'm a fool, I'm a fool. Before the patches, I was a fool in a lot of pain who couldn't hardly walk. After the patches, I'm just a fool who now walks three miles a day. I ran out of patches a couple weeks ago, and didn't mind, at first. Last few days, I've been hurting more and moving less, without even thinking about the patches. I can't afford to buy more just yet, either. Anyway, none of that matters to you.
Carry on! |
Waver
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 12:11 PM
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 03:26 AM
WAVER
Why would you be "...too tired"?
You use the LifeWave Energy Patches!
Duh.
Is it all about a grossly overpriced placebo?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
WWSN1
Member
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 08:20 AM
Anonymous "WAVER" Dude!
Viva las Vegas, good buddy!
Good observation on EDHUK's part. Why would you be tired, true believer? Slap on a couple of patches and within 10 minutes, you'll be ready to go!
No one I know wears the patches 24/7. I actually took mine off at the LV airport before my flight east. I slept 3 of the 4 hour flight, got off the plane drove home, and checked my email and looked at a few website (including this one) then went to bed. I am wearing a set of patches and feel great
I'm glad you had a chance to talk with David Jumper. He's one of the best. He and I have worked long and hard to maintain a dialogue between David Schmidt and the WWSN, but Schmidt wasn't willing.
I'm sure David Jumper is frustrated with the impasse as much as I am, but he's not willing to risk his investment in Lifewave by challenging David Schmidt to fulfill his agreement to answer a few questions more than six months ago. Or to require that David Schmidt - as a public figure, President of the company and inventor of the patch - to provide a legitimate curriculum vitae.
You couldn't be more wromg about David's thoughts on this issue. i'll leave the details for you and he to discuss another time. |
Waver
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 12:26 PM
Now on to the important stuff. Here is a list of Doctors and scientists that spoke at the convention about their tests and results using LifeWave:
Dr. Dean Clark
Dr. Lauren DeRock D.V.M.-Her study of the use of LiveWave energy patches on horseshas just been accepted for publication in the leading publication on Veterinary medicine.
Dr. Leonard Horowitz
Dr. Lexus Johnson
Several more note worthy speakers that discussed their use of and belief in the LifeWave technology:
Pat Burris - former Olympic competitor and #1 name in Judo in the uS
stephen Miller - the senior international weight lifting coach with the USA Weightlifting Team
Patrick Netter the Gear Guru - is one of the media's most trusted sources for introducing the best in sports, health, and fitness products
along with several dozen more speakers
Dr. David Kamnitzer
Dr. Reenah McGill
Dr. Homer Nazeran
Dr. Howard Peiper
Dr. Beverly Rubik
Dr. Frank Shallenberger
Dr. Lisa Tully |
Joe
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 05:00 PM
"I'm also a devout Christian..."
Miss Cynic:
I too am a devout Christian, yet the use of one faith system, LifeWave, over Christianity perplexes me. For me personally, and all that I believe in, my faith rests soley in God. If I have pain, financial problems, etc. I go to him instead. I don't want to turn this into a religious debate or anything, just wondering if you decided to abandon God, who asks nothing of you but yourself, for a patch that demands money for an obvious placebo effect. Don't make Lifewave a golden image, trust in God.
I guess that explains the "cult" nature of this product and how they "converted" another person. |
Joe
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 05:05 PM
Please don't misconstrue my previous post as being harsh. I believe God works through science to do awesome things, but Lifewave is not science. Once these studies prove to me the supposed "science" behind the claims, then I will reconsider. |
Joe
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 05:11 PM
Waver,
Could you elaborate a little more on what these people presented? Maybe links to these studies. Also, the middle speakers (talking about use and belief of lifewave) are meaningless, so I don't need anything they said. Just the science please.
Thanks |
Miss Cynic
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 05:24 PM
Dear Joe,
I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea that I am worshiping Life Wave Energy patches or casting them as a golden idol. They are a tool, like a hammer, or a computer. They are useful to me, and help me in ways that I need help. I neither disparage God, nor you, because I believe that they work.
I don't wish to turn this into a religious argument, either. In case you haven't noticed, most worthwhile tools in your life demand money, too, for whatever value they have to you. For all I know, using them might be a means to fulfill God's purpose in my life. I don't know. Maybe your criticism is part of that, too. Do you know if God asked you to post your comment?
Remember the story of the flood victim who climbed on the roof of his house when the waters started to rise? At first, rescuers waded through the water and pleaded with him to come down so they could rescue him.
"No, God will save me," he replied.
The waters rose higher, and rescuers in a boat came to him.
"Climb into our boat!"
"No! God will save me!"
Finally, a helicopter comes to his aid, and as the rescuers try to help the man, he tells them to go away, because God will save him.
The flood waters wash over the man's house and carry him away and he drowns, but because he was a good Christian, he meets the Lord in Heaven. But, he asks him, "Lord, I waited for you to come and save me, yet you let me get washed away and drowned."
The Lord replied, "I sent you rescuers three times and you denied them."
Sure, that's just an old joke, but the point should be well taken. I don't place my belief in the patches over my belief in God, and don't believe I indicated that anywhere in my post. I believe that God has an infinite number of ways to reach us and speak to us. I happen to like one of the tools developed by one of his children, and don't mind paying for them. I'm not sitting around, praying, "Oh, Lord, take away my pain," and expecting an angel to come down and wave his hand and make me pain free.
I hope this answers your question, but again, I don't wish to create a religious discussion over something as inane as whether or not buying patches is a denial of God. That seems rather ludicrous, don't you think? |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 06:59 PM
Until recently, the question of whether the LifeWave True Believers on this board were sincere or merely interested in the money they think they can make from the patches was open in my mind. No longer, though.
Three times now, I have asked what the word "nanotechnology" means in the context of small adhesive plastic patches. Three times I have asked how small adhesive plastic patches can affect the alleged "magnetic field" around the human body. Three times my questions have been ignored.
Everyone involved in this thread for any length of time has seen the True Believers make statements like, "I don't know how they work. I just know they do." Even if that made sense (which it doesn't) how you throw around terms like "nanotechnology" then turn around and say you have no idea how the patches "work?" Do you know that their alleged efficacy involves "nanotechnology" or are you clueless as to what makes them "work?"
My conclusion: the True Believers will say whatever works at any given moment. Actually, the term "True Believer" is misleading as I no longer think that they really believe these things do anything other than make money for the distributors and manufacturers.
I probably shouldn't give scam artists advice, but I will: Pick a story and stick with it. Either it's "nanotechnology" or you have NO IDEA how they work. You guys squirm more than George Bush at a spelling bee. |
Joe
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 07:48 PM
Miss Cynic:
My comments were mainly to get more information about what you thought of Lifewave in the context of a "religious" idea. Many times the word "cult" has been mentioned in this forum because so many people are blindly following this product and its leader without thinking of what they are actually buying. They don't do anything research or use any common sense (especially after all the revelations about "fake" studies at colleges). Even though they "work" for you and you feel the "effects" and feel that you aren't harming anyone by minding to your own, you are contributing to a scam. Read this entire forum thread and you'll find more information than you will ever need to determine that this is a flat out scam. |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 07:49 PM
Miss Cynic
My heart goes out to you.
I have only been posting comments since July as a result of a friend of mine becoming involved in LifeWave.
I have repeatidly posted that I beieve many users are genuine honest people who get results from using the patches, placebo or not.
The dilemma is should I say anything that could take away your pain relief effect? Should I remain silent so that you gain relief while others are conned out of their money.
You are well aware of the placebo effect, but have you read the report published recently about real pain control from a placebo?
The question of animals has been addressed before, but is worth another mention.
There are many claims that animals do better on the patches, but it always turns out that the views come from owners/trainers etc. The studies are never properly controlled. i.e. They follow the logic "I tried them on my dog and he walks more, and I think he's in less pain."
The owner has no idea how much bias they are putting into the trial of the patches. They are involved on an emotional level with their pet. I am not talking about willing an animal to feel better. It's just that unconscious body language, the level and tone of the voice, the actual placing of the patches on the animal's body, have a profound effect on the results.
Talk to anyone in animal research to find out how difficult a truly objective trial is to design.
In your case, you obviously get results, and have linked the results with the placing of glucose and glycerin patches on your body.
Your belief is that the real pain relief you experience comes from using the patches.
My belief is that the pain control you experience is real and is generated in your brain by your own thoughts. The latest research explains how this works.
Should you pay $90 + S&H a month for a placebo? Worse still, should a company selling such a product make outrageous claims for it's product and generate large sums of dishonest cash making use of the internet?
It's all a metter of opinion, I guess.
I wish you the very best and hope you can find an equally good method of pain control from a pain control clinic using biofeedback or other methods. You are obviously an extremely good canditate for making use of your own God given talents. You have proved you can help yourself, now you have to believe you don't actually need the scam middleman.
Very best wishes.
Is it all about a grossly overpriced glucose and glycerin placebo?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 | 08:11 PM
Somebody from LifeWave please help out ex-distributor CONSHYTOM (2)
Now on his 3rd listing and the price has been dropped from $75 to $37.50 opening bid.
There must be many newbies from the CON.ference who need supplies and the money goes to the Red Cross. LifeWave Family to the rescue............
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5615395141
Deal of the Century?
Is it........................................?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Nanoman
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 06:37 AM
WWSN,
You get 4 sleeves (15 tan/15 white) of patches with a silver enrolement. 7 sleeves with a gold enrolement. Are you thinking about upgrading? |
Miss Cynic
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 01:03 PM
EDHUK and Joe
I think I understand where you are coming from and I'm actually very supportive of your intent. Your concern is that I'm "feeding the scam" here, because I'm reporting positive results from it. I agree with you that just because some of us use the patches with good results is no reason to con other people out of their money. That is why I'm not actively pushing these things on other people, harrassing everyone I know to sign up as a Gold member, sending out mass emails full of testimonials, etc. If someone else wants to try them, I'll make it possible. I get a $15 price break buying them for myself.
Oh, and that guy on eBay is breaking the rules. Life Wave distributors are NOT ALLOWED to sell on eBay. The idea is in personal contact. I think you know where that goes. If you're convinced the patches are a scam, you are surely aware it is much easier to con people in person than over the internet. However, if you're part of the Life Wave marketing niche, you also understand that personal contact is necessary in any successful sales venture (i.e. high end sales teams from larger private corporations do most of their business through personal contact). So, it's possible to spin the sales policies in whichever direction you lean.
But let's get back to the placebo effect for a moment. I wish there was some placebo I could take to help me lose weight! After eating right and exercising strenuously nearly every day for the last two months, I've been rewarded by gaining five more pounds. Just what I wanted! And I don't buy that "muscle weighs more than fat, so it just shows you've put on more muscle." I don't think that's "muscle" hanging over my belt buckle. And yet, one of the hopes surrounding the patches was that they would be helpful in losing weight, due to the added energy and stamina. My mind did not manage to believe that enough, even though it did manage to con me into thinking I have more energy and less pain. The "selective" placebo effect must be what is going on.
Getting back to animals and the placebo effect, I'm still not clear how it might work. I've worked with many veterinarians over the years, people who are trained to detect pain in animals. Some are better than others at it, to be sure. Anyone who has been closely involved with animals knows how animals will express pain, since an animal's instinct is to suppress any outward show of pain, unless it becomes too severe. So, I'm still unclear how the placebo effect is working when the patches are applied to an animal in obvious discomfort, and all the outward signs the animal displays afterward indicate the discomfort is lessened or gone. However, once again, I realize that my observations can certainly be spun to reflect some part of my ignorance or denial, so I will accept that.
I wish I could help out with the "nanotechnology" thing. A Google search of "nanotechology in medicine" listed over 14,000 results and there might be some interesting reading there for someone who has time to wander through it. How the patches utilize nanotechnology might be explained in there somewhere.
Again, my intent here is not to promote a scam, just a statement of my observations, colored however they may be.
Thanks for your concerns EDHUK. If there is another non-medication method of increasing my energy and releasing some pain that isn't going to cost me as much as the patches - be sure that if I find it, the patches will be history. I'm not just a dumb blond, I'm also cheap. |
EDHUK
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 01:46 PM
Miss Cynic,
To pick up where you left off....
There's no such thing as a cheap dumb blonde is there? LOL
I'm not so much accusing you of feeding the scam, although by continuing to buy the patches the company does stay in business. I'm concerned that people who get results, even though it's the placebo effect at work, will be left high and dry when the company goes bust.
You know the old saying about "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... etc". LifeWave will be history sooner or later, then what for people like you? LifeWave certainly will not give a toss. They will have made their stash and be well on their way.
Your comments about weight loss are interesting especially as it's supposed to be one of the positive effects of using the patches. The patches instruct your cells to use fat for energy.
The part about fat and muscle weight comparisons: A pound of muscle and a pound of fat weigh exactly the same, of course. However, if you ever get chance to trim fat off a meat joint, put 6 ounces on a plate, then put 6 ounces of lean meat on the plate by its side. You will notice that the fat pile looks quite a bit bigger. It's the nature of the fat cells.
That's why people with a lot of body fat can do weight training and actually stay the same weight or even put on weight, but actually look smaller.
Like I said before, the animal placebo effect is very difficult to prove or disprove, hence the many different designs of experiments to rule out all confounding factors when testing a product.
The "nanotechnology" aspect of LifeWave continues to be fascinating. The word doesn't get a mention in their patent application. LifeWave's response is that their legal eagles say it would be too complicated to include the word in the patent application and prolong the process even further.
Presumably, using the same logic, all the companies currently working in nanotechnology leave out the word nanotechnology because it would be too difficult for them to get a patent. Yeh..right!
What continues to make me smile is that no matter how many times LifeWave smacks people in the face they just say "would you like to hit me harder?". As I've said before, It's all a matter of perspective I guess.
There is one question I've asked myself. If I was to join LifeWave as a distributor could I stand in front on my friends and colleages and, without bursting out in laughter, tell them about the amazing patches that will talk to their bodies like a cell phone and say "burn fat".
Nope, I just couldn't do it. I couln't endure being that embarrassed. Sorry LifeWave.
Still a little dissapointed not to see a wealth of studies and links to studies from the CON.ference, but maybe they'll be coming...in a few months...in a few months.
Is it all about a grossly overpriced glucose and glycerin placebo?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 01:48 PM
ps
The guy on LifeWave is not selling patches, just the literature etc. |
Joe
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 02:53 PM
I wonder, if Lifewave sees a distributor selling a bunch of patches on Ebay, would they "punish" the distributor or just sit back and realize all that cash.
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/LifeWave-Energy-Enhancer-NR_W0QQitemZ5615081808QQcategoryZ1277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem">http://cgi.ebay.com/LifeWave-Energy-Enhancer-NR_W0QQitemZ5615081808QQcategoryZ1277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a> |
hcmomof4
|
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 03:20 PM
I have a slight problem with Miss Cynic's claim to "devout" Christianity in light of the fact she is comfortable selling something she readily admits may do nothing. "If it's only placebo, I don't mind." Cheating other people so that she can get patches cheaper doesn't seem like SJWD. (Something Jesus would do.) |
Waver
|
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 08:05 PM
My top producing distributor is in his last year of seminary and will be a minister this time next year. He prayed over his decision to join. And yes, he did do his due dilligence and even looked at Bob web site before he joined. |
Joe
Member
|
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 | 09:04 PM
My father is currently an ordained minister. He started selling Xango or something and I asked him to evaluate how it was effecting his relationships. He soon realized that his congregation might be turned off by him offering a product. Of course they wanted to try the product, but he realized that it was an awkward position, almost a conflict of interest. Your top producing distributor might feel the same way when he becomes the head of a church. The business of selling products using one-on-one tactics is tough when you are a minister.
On the other hand, people do sell Avon and such through catalogs and one-on-one contact. It depends on the person I guess and their personal convictions. Some people are genuinely interested in helping people and some are interested in money. But when it comes down to it, I usually look at the product and the company behind it. Nothing wrong with making money, but I would take an Avon facial scrub over Lifewave any day. |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 | 01:35 AM
Miss Cynic said:
"I wish I could help out with the "nanotechnology" thing. A Google search of "nanotechology in medicine" listed over 14,000 results and there might be some interesting reading there for someone who has time to wander through it. How the patches utilize nanotechnology might be explained in there somewhere."
I have to say that I honestly do appreciate your apparently sincere attempt to look at all sides of the LifeWave controversy.
My problem with the "nanotechnology" thing is that on the one hand, the LifeWave True Believers say that the patches work thanks to "nanotechnology," then on the other hand, they say they simply don't know how they work. Which is it? I find this disingenuous; I think they say whatever works in a given situation. As in any large group of deluded people, some of them may have managed to talk themselves into the notion that small adhesive plastic patches can do anything other than stick to the skin, but the bottom line is it's still a bullshit story. |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 | 01:38 AM
Waver said:
"My top producing distributor is in his last year of seminary and will be a minister this time next year. He prayed over his decision to join. And yes, he did do his due dilligence and even looked at Bob web site before he joined."
So what? LifeWave would hardly be the first scam that Christians have fallen for. A few years ago, there were several "Christian investment" scams that took a lot of people's money, just for example. When the dust settles, the devout among the LifeWave investors will find themeselves to have been just as scammed as the rest of the True Believers. |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 | 11:13 AM
WWSN1
Bob, as usual, a great insight into the reality behind the hype.
I'm looking forward to more background information.
In the meantime I guess there are two ways to look at any promotional conference.
1. The assembled speakers have well respected CV's in the field that the product claims to belong to. They can discuss correctly designed and performed studies that have been corroborated by third party researchers. Their overall input is to enlighten people about the efficacy and genuineness of the product.
2. LifeWave's list of suspects.
Here it's not so much what these so-called
"experts" know but how low they have sunk in their individual fields to become associated with a pyramid MLM selling a bogus product of glycerin and glucose.
The association says everything anyone could ever want to know about these "experts".
Is it all about a grossly overpriced placebo?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Dave
|
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 | 12:05 PM
I signed up to sell for LifeWave. I have tried their patches, their Okalani water, and their sleep patches. I haven't experienced any change in my sleep patterns nor have I experienced any improvement or change in my overall energy. I have tried speaking with a few of their distributors, all of whom have downlines ranging from 2500+ to under 100. Whenever I ask a question they can only tell me that everyone has been amazed at the effectiveness of the product. Of course, I am part of "everyone" so I do not trust their response. Also, in my conversations it is clear that even these successful marketers of this MLM are unable to answer any question, even simple questions, without a great deal of ambiguity. They seem to be "true believers", their responses are consistent with those of memebers of cults and it is obvious, regardless of the efficacy of life wave partches, that they want to believe so much they are unwilling to look at the possibility that their product is over-hyped. Dave |
Waver
|
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 | 05:57 PM
WOW, Bob and I actually agree on something. Dr. Horowitz was by far my least favorite speaker in Las Vegas. He is way too "new age" for me. Too much mumbo jumbo. |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 | 06:53 PM
Too much mumbo jumbo.
Waver
Say it ain't so.
A speaker invited by David Schmidt to tout the efficacy of the patches talking mumbo jumbo.
I've got it wrong haven't I?
Is it all about a grossly overpriced placebo?
Or is it just "mumbo jumbo"
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 | 02:33 PM
WWSN1
Great stuff.
Two down....next?
Is it all about grossly overpriced glucose and glycerin placebo patches?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
Joe
Member
|
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 | 04:47 PM
Very nice WWSN1. The whole time I was reading it I was smiling because I knew once I got to the bottom, I would find the link to an affiliate site. Keep it up. |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 06:06 AM
Heart rate variability refers to the beat-to-beat variation in heart rate (HR) and is modulated largely by the autonomic nervous system via changes in the balance between parasympathetic and sympathetic influences. Since short-term variations in HR reflect sympathetic nervous activity, they provide useful non-invasive markers for assessing autonomic control under various physiologic states and conditions.
Rivetting stuff from Dr. Nazeran's paper.
So, somehow, any change in heart rate must be connected with the patches, placebo or not, eh?
Anybody out there ever affected their heart rate through thought alone?
Did Dr. Nazeran know which patches were placebo patches? Did they have a big "P" stamped on them?
In the history of experimental research has anyone ever fabricated results figures to give the desired outcome?
Good to know that David Schmidt is only using the top minds in research to prove the authenticity of his completely worthwhile product.
Is it all about completely worthless, grossly overpriced, glucose and glycerin placebos?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 06:26 AM
Based on these preliminary observations it could be concluded...
Dr. Homer Nazeran.
Hmm... Where have I read that kind of reasoning before?
"We believe the patches...."
Ain't science great!
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/ |
tara
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 09:08 AM
Hi there,
I noticed earlier in this thread a link to the Georgia medical board where one could find information on dr. steven Haltiwanger...I looked and could not find anything. could someone direct me to the proper site.
Thanks |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 10:34 AM
Tara
Is this Dr Haltiwanger?
http://www.medicalboard.state.ga.us/bdsearch/pdf/04-026292.pdf |
Tara
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 10:35 AM
Hi,
I have been following this thread for a while simply because I purchased and used lifewave patches and was interested in neutral info on the patches which I couldnt find. I stumbled across this site. I wanted to make a few comments. Please excuse all the info I may have wrong and feel free to correct me. I have a moderate amount of ADD and my attention span has only allowed me to skim the thread.
firstly, from my impression the "big bang" conference in sept. was supposed to reveal some exciting new research and studies...where are they? I cannot seem to find these even on the lifewave website. Having been waiting for "waver" to post on these new discoveries, I was a little dissapointed that all I got was a list of who's who and some study pending to be released on horses. in fact, a more comprehensive update came from WWSN.
Regarding the post by Miss Cynic you mentioned that your experience with the patches was probably not a placebo affect since the idea of a selective placebo was not probable. I think the power of thought can be very powerful. Maybe, your subconcious mind can accept renewed energy and vitality but cannot except the idea of weightloss...ever hear of the book "think yourself thin"? I am also in chronic pain which the patches did nothing for. thats my experience.
My husband and I used the patches and neither one of us had any type of renewed energy, pain relief etc...and I am pretty much up for anything, so if the placebo affect was going to work for anyone, I'm it. I did get a massive headache and extrememly lathargic from it, which was explained to be a detox symptom...or healing crises to be exact. Next, I was told that my polarity was switched, which made sense to me since I have worked closely with kinesiologists and do believe in it's validity. However, I opted for the money back guarantee. Of course, it's not easy to go about this procedure. It would be much easier if the company had a 1-800 number for thier customers who are spending so much money. I think I will be suprised if I actually get my money back. They wanted the cheap pamphlets back first. Weird. Wasnt my credit card purchase proof enough that I bought the patches?? For $103.00 including S&H, along with the patches they send about three phamplets, a CD, and a booklet. Why would they need these back? are they going to recycle them?
I was hoping after Sept. 12 that someone from the conference would present something significant in the rhealm of valid research. Guess not. |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 10:51 AM
Tara,
I too have been waiting for new revelations as promised, but didn't really expect any.
As I mentioned weeks ago in this forum, David Schmidt has achieved precisely what he set out to do. Give masses of information to the faithfull, promise to share it with the rest of us sometime in the future and all the while keep raking in the money. This is a gigantic delay game.
David Schmidt is no dummy. He certainly knows how to make cash. What a pity he's not been able to use those talents in a legitimate area.
So, the discussion will continue. Bob at WWSN will provide more fascinating background on the so called "experts" and I guess we will slowly, but surely, start to see more postings like yours.
It is noticable that this weeks postings from the LifeWavers has been very thin on the ground. Perhaps they will crank up the rhetoric over the week-end?
Is it all about grossly overpriced glucose and glycerin placebo patches?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 03:11 PM
Bob,
I guess David Schmidt forgot to put patches on his tech team! With the energy patches they could have had the in-house software ready in a few days!
Just how far can a person go in two months?
Mind you, in the era of the internet, it's all too easy to conduct scams from anywhere in the world.
Don't you just love science?
Is it all about grossly overpriced glucose and glycerin placebo patches?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
wow
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 04:00 PM
You guys info is SOOO tired........all i have to say is this whole site is LOSERS |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 04:11 PM
WOW
Is that ALL you have to say?
What, didn't you put your patches on today?
Is it all about suckers who buy grossly overpriced placebos?
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
wow
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 05:16 PM
When are you gonna realize about 7 people visit this board thats IT..........whatever |
EDHUK
Member
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 05:32 PM
WOW,
So, unless a person posts a comment, they haven't looked at the forum.
Is it 7 including you?
Is it all about very gullible people buying worthless glucose and glycerin placebo patches?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
jwb671
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 08:46 PM
I know way more than 7 people and i'm going to send them the link to this thread today.
This is great entertainment!
I especially liked the guy who said that Lifewave is holding back their study results so they can deliver the knockout punch to all the doubters in one foul swoop!
One last thing... I'm no scientist but wouldn't these things have a finite shelf-life? Amino acids, glucose and water mixed together is basically a food afterall? |
jwb
|
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 | 08:57 PM
I just read the "back office" announcement notice from Bob again.
Sounds like they're gonna do the old "our demand is so high you'll have to pay now for your product but you won't receive it for several weeks (ie. if so many people want it then it MUST be great).
So people may even end up paying for the honour of going on the "waiting" list for a useless set of patches. What a great scam! |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 | 12:09 AM
wow said:
"You guys info is SOOO tired........all i have to say is this whole site is LOSERS"
Well, you just can't argue with reasoning like that. |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 | 12:14 AM
Has it occurred to the LifeWave True Believers yet that, basically, every time that WWSN makes a prediction about what LifeWave management will do, it comes to pass?
Golly, could it be because people like him (and, to a lesser extent, me) have seen this movie before and that LifeWave is just the most recent version of the same old plot?
Scams, by their nature, are pretty much forced to follow the same track as all those that have preceeded it. There really isn't much variation in these things, other than the specific names given to things.
It's only because the True Believers don't know the history of scams that LifeWave can look new and different. Trust me, it ain't. It's the same old crap in a new package. And the end will be the same as all the others. |
hcmomof4
|
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 | 12:20 AM
hmmmm... on this page (39)alone I count 6 people (not counting myself) who have visited this board for at least long enough to comment...
That's a very busy 7 people to have generated 39 pages of commentary. |
aml
|
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 | 09:18 AM
I'm new to this product. I was a witness to it's effects on Friday the 16th of Sept. 2005. It was used both on aminal and human in my presents. If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I would not have believed it either and I'm still not quite sure because I'm such a sceptic!
What I saw is; A horse that has been short strided, no matter how much we have tried to re-train him to move out, after use, over tracked into his front hoof prints and moved with much more ease then before.
As for the human, this person has prgressing MS, did not know of the product claims. She was given a set of patches to try and in just a FEW mintutes, was able to stand for about 10 minutes straight (before this, she could barely make more than a minute and a half max). Her steps were more balanced, forward and secure than I've seen in over two years (mind you she did NOT know of the product she was wearing)! After about an hour she move them to her lower extremities and her balance increased. So you see, Yes we don't know "how they can work". But they seem too at this small test of our own.
I am not a distributor!(NOR DO I PLAN TO BE) I'm just a riding intructor and barn manager with over 25 years of experience in the equine world. This person who they worked so well for, IS going to order some and try them out for awhile. I will reserve my verdict until her trail test is over.
Thanks to all of you who taken the time to write your comments here, because they have been a help to me and I'm sure other who a have loged on here. |
Dr.Boris
Member
|
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 | 10:14 AM
Las Vegas Conference seems to have quieted Lifewavers. Guys! Where are the long awaited scientific results presented by the world's most brilliant minds?
By the way, it is probably too late to try and get your money back. If you want everything to be smooth, wait for 2 months.... Foundation starts cracking and the guys on the top need time to flee with the money of true believers and those who were scammed. |
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Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.
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