The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
Page 77 of 99 pages ‹ First  < 75 76 77 78 79 >  Last ›
Joel
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 | 03:47 PM
Diane has drunk long, hard, and deep from the Kool-Aid.
Joel
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 | 04:38 PM
The US Patent Office has rejected David Schmidt's patent application (application no 10/669,596) for LifeWave patches five times now, most recently by a panel of three examiners on December 11, 2008.

But as I've said before, whether Schmidt gets a patent says virtually nothing, because the Patent Office never demands that an applicant prove by reliable independent evidence that his invention actually works.

So far, Schmidt, with his 2-year degree in business administration yet who claims to be visionary scientist with yet another revolutionary invention, is 0-for-4 in the patent application department. That is an amazingly bad record.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 | 05:33 PM
Joel,

"But as I've said before, whether Schmidt gets a patent says virtually nothing, because the Patent Office never demands that an applicant prove by reliable independent evidence that his invention actually works."

Exactly! I've made the same point also.

An inventor who is successful with a Patent has demonstrated to the satisfaction of the Patent Office examiners that they have come up with a unique, (or "novel", the word "Dr. David Schmidt used many times in his first application) invention.

As you remind us, even if an applicant receives a Patent it does NOT mean the invention is PROVEN to be effective per the claims of the inventor. That's why there are thousands of Patents just sitting there. A matter of record, but never acted on. Never taken to the next stage.

A person who holds a Patent then proceeds to stage 2 where they will attempt to sell the item or idea to a company, govenment agency or to the public, etc.

They will back up claims made about said product with REAL (and most importantly repeatable, verifiable) EVIDENCE.

Of course that term is of NO importance to David Schmidt.

While we have the likes of Diane and Lindsey, and all the other LifeWavers who have posted their insults here, Schmidt continues to laugh all the way to the bank.

On the radio today I listened to someone who convinced a family member to take ALL of their money OUT of the Bernie Madoff fund. This was in the early days.

Other family members doubled their money every few years and kept trying to get the family member to reinvest so that they wouldn't miss out.

Then, all these years later, the revelations, and now imprisonment of Madoff for running a Ponzi scheme has exonerated the father who advised his daughter to "get out".

It's all too easy to see why Schmidt can convince, as in CON, people. VERY intelligent people get conned ALL THE TIME.

To Lindsey and Diane, and all the other LifeWavers. Do you not get that simple idea? No one is saying you are stupid. Stupid people tend to see through these scams very quickly.

One thing I can state with extreme confidence. You will, one day, say to yourself "Those people were right after all".

You know what? It won't give me any pleasure at all on the day you say it. None at all.

Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 | 05:47 PM
Enjoy:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/66/realitycheck.html

"The biggest misconception about fraud is that the victims are stupid. The truth is, con artists prefer intelligent people. First, smart people are more likely to have money. Second, smart people are easier to fool precisely because they think they're too smart to get scammed. We deal with victims who are doctors, lawyers, judges -- even cops. The easiest people to deceive are those who think that they are immune to deception."

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/scams.shtml

"Decent, intelligent people are duped out of their life savings by smooth-talking, utterly unscrupulous crooks. These are people who will look you in the eye and lie."

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/headline-march-12-2009-how-we-get-scammed-and-how-the-scammers-do-it-03-12-09-640pm/305356914/?icid=VIDLRVBUS08

Listen to a Madoff victim talk about being scammed. He's a psychiatrist!

"...the more complex the scheme..."

One thing you CAN say about the LifeWave SCAM, it is very complex.

Read, watch, THINK and as Bob Burtis has urged for many years...

Do your due diligence.

Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 | 06:41 PM
Diane and Lindsey

Let's not forget you have plenty of home grown scams to be proud of.

http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/MiracleCures

http://www.australianwomenonline.com/participate-in-the-consumer-fraud-survey-and-help-fight-scams/

You have your own skeptics in Australia. It's not limited to a few people on this thread!
http://www.acahf.org.au/
http://www.skeptics.com.au/

You even have your own version of James Randi and his $Million prize.

http://www.skeptics.com.au/prizes/challenge.htm

Surely ANY LifeWaver who KNOWS the product works would snatch that $100,000 out of their hands in very short order.

Lindsey, Diane, please tell me you aren't so rich that you can afford to ignore a SURE $100,000?

And before you say it doesn't apply to patches, it DOES state "pseudoscience".

That IS LifeWave.

I wait with baited breath to hear that you have won the prize. Then you can go on to take the $Million from James Randi in the USA.

Piece of cake cobber.

Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 | 11:05 AM
EDHUK/Dave, you snake in the grass, just want Diane to take up the Australian skeptics' challenge because you KNOW the patches work as advertised and that she'll collect the $100,000 prize, and that you'll then collect the $20,000 "finder's fee."
http://www.skeptics.com.au/prizes/challenge.htm

DIANE AND LINDSEY, DON'T DO IT! Don't be tricked by Dave. IT'S NOT WORTH THE $100,000!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 | 12:43 PM
Joel

Ooops.

My plan's scuppered!

(various mumblings under breath)

Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 | 01:37 PM
IS IT ETHICAL TO ADMINISTER A PLACEBO?

Here is an interesting article discussing the debate in the medical community about whether it's ethical to administer placebos. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-12-10-placebo_N.htm

A 2-year old AMA policy says No, but half the internists in the U.S. report giving placebos to patients at least once a month. According to the author, the new AMA policy may lead to patients suing doctors who administer placebos.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 | 04:06 PM
Joel

Even Britain's Royalty gets in on the "dodgy" side of the street:

Maybe Prince Charles could remarket it as "Placebo Tincture"?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7934568.stm

Enjoy!

Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 | 04:40 PM
Prince Charles was never the sharpest pencil in the box.
Kate
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 | 04:01 PM
My parents has been using it for months and they urge me to start using it as well b/c it works for them. I did a lot of research and yeah.. a lot came out as scams or hoax, but still..I bought some and start using it. What's the worse that can happen? It either works or doesn't..

So far, I felt it's working..I slept better w/ sleep patches.. but u just have to put it in the right place for it to work. I also use energy & yage.. I do feel more energy but haven't seem any effect w/ yage yet. I still don't quit understand why it works.. but I'm a Chinese and I know in theory acupuncture work wonder for your body but the result is not something you can see instantly, and I think the patch work in a similar way.. b/c it pro-long the stimulation on the acupuncture point for half day instead of 30 mins or 1 hr.

I'm still in testing stage.. not a firm believer yet...so we'll see.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 | 05:21 PM
Kate

"I did a lot of research and yeah.. a lot came out as scams or hoax, but still..I bought some..."

How did that process work?

Why did you ignore your own due diligence research?

"I still don't quit[e] understand why it works..."

Join the rest of us in that thought.

The reason is very simple...It DOESN'T work.

The LifeWave patch system, as explained by "Dr." David Schmidt CANNOT work. There is NO evidence to support the outrageous claims made by Schmidt about the product.

All we have are anectdotal posts, like yours, which are of no use.

California is home to the LifeWave Company now since its move from Atlanta. Schmidt dumped his wife , children and family dog in favor of the new, more glamorous LA lifestyle.

We seem to get a number of LifeWavers from LA who are "giving it a try".

"..I slept better w/ sleep patches.."

How do you know you wouldn't have slept just as well on those same nights without the patches?

What proof do you have that the patches do ANYTHING at all?

"I'm still in testing stage.. not a firm believer yet...so we'll see."

No, you are not "testing" anything.

You have chosen to give your money to a SCAM artist, a CON-MAN in return for some sticky patches that David Schmidt himself explained contain nothing more than glycerin (white) and glucose (brown).

Schmidt is adamant that the patches are NON-TRANSDERMAL...nothing enters the body via the skin.

If Schmidt has chosen to sell transdermal patches under the guise of being non-transdermal we have a whole new game.

We would have a reason to attribute an effect and the FDA would be VERY interested in the company.

If you are indeed a genuine person, and not another poster from the LifeWave Company, I wish you good health and hapiness but please do not be duped into thinking David Schmidt, the man with NO scientific credentials of any kind is responsible for your new found improvements.

Dave
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 | 08:44 PM
Kate said:
What's the worse that can happen? It either works or doesn't..


There is nothing on this site: http://whatstheharm.net/
that specifically addresses Lifewave patches, but if you look through it, you will discover that there are a lot more options between something simply working or not working, even when they themselves are harmless.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 | 09:09 PM
"You have chosen to give your money to a SCAM artist, a CON-MAN in return for some sticky patches that David Schmidt himself explained contain nothing more than glycerin (white) and glucose (brown)."

Before LifeWavers claim Schmidt did nothing of the sort:

http://www.lifewave.com/research_info.asp

"A reagent was chosen, based on information provided by the manufacturer, that would react with substances present in the brown(glucose) patch and in the white (glycerin) patch."

From the MVA report that Schmidt still proudly includes as "Research" although the report is pared down from the original document to just one page.

Nothing to hide, Schmidt has openly told those who will look, and comprehend, that they are purchasing glucose and glycerin. He's been doing it for years.

Go figure!
Kate
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 | 10:05 PM
wow.. you guys really HATE lifewave huh.. I'm not here to defend or prove anything.. I'm just posting the results from those experiments. I am only doing it b/c my parents ask me to give a try.. I'm just curious in the product that can cure years of cough for my mom in few months. I am only doing it to give them a fair chance. And I do agree those patches are hell of expensive $(@*$*!&!#@!^^$%, and I got my on ebay since it's cheaper.. =P If nothing happen for a month, then I'll stop.. b/c I'm not going to donate my hard earn money to those MLMs...
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 | 11:00 PM
Kate, I wouldn't say that I "hate" lifewave in particular. I just really don't like to see people scammed. Not only do scams such as lifewave take money from those involved, but it can also be dangerous, especially when used in lieu of real medicine.

Plus, so many otherwise very smart people are duped merely because they don't know the warning signs of a scam such as this one. Once you have picked apart one, it's easier to begin to recognize the same patterns in other scams.
Kate
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 | 03:04 PM
Thanx guys for all the input. I know it's upsetting when those scums on the top of those MLM company making money from little people like us.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 | 04:30 PM
Kate - Obviously, not all MLM companies are scum. But MLM is how many scam products get sold.

(However, there's been a tremendous increase in the number of scam products, e.g., penis enlargement pills, sold through TV ads these days. What's with that, anyway?)

If you even buy one box of patches to try, you're playing right into the scam. With 300 million people in America, if just one person in 100 persons tries a box of worthless sugar-and-glycerin patches at $90 per box, that's still $270 million sold, most of that pure profit. That's strong incentive to market a scam product. I urge you not to play into the scam, which will only encourage more scam/scum.
Shutters
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 | 05:54 AM
We have already done that and we'd be glad to direct you to what we have learned. If you have other information or data that proves otherwise, we are wide open to viewing and considering it. There is no hidden agenda - except to discover the truth.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 | 12:17 PM
Shutters

Your post has exactly what to do with the LIFEWAVE SCAM?
Cindy
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 | 06:49 PM
I just recently bought 30 patches for my son. He was diagnosed with Autism at the age of 2 1/2. He is 6 1/2 now. We use a lot of biomedical treatments on him with much improvement. I am so very disappointed to read that the $80 I could have used to get more of the doctor-issued suppliments for him has been spent on this. Thank goodness I haven't put one on him yet. I have not made this mistake before and will not make it again. I am normally a very researched person and I'm not sure why I had a sudden lapse in judgement.

I guess they have taken advantage of yet another parent of an autistic child. I would go to the ends of the earth to help my son.....

Shame on them.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 | 07:46 PM
Cindy,

Thank you for sharing your story with us. There are a lot of people that say to us, "If it's just a placebo, then what's the harm in people using it?" You've hit the nail on the head. The harm isn't in the product itself, but in the fact that many people will use a placebo product in place of a legitimate product.

Lifewave counts on people like you who care about your own well-being or that of a loved one and are desperate for a miracle product. Lapses in judgment are common, even with very smart people, especially when in an emotional situation, as you must be. Lifewave counts on this to sell to people who otherwise would never have given in to a scam such as theirs.

I'm glad you found our little corner of the interweb for some sense and reason on the lifewave issue. Good luck with your son and the legitimate treatments. And again, thanks for sharing your story.

Jamie
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 | 09:34 PM
Cindy in Florida

Would you be kind enough to share how you were "sold" on the idea of purchasing the patches?

Best wishes,

Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 | 11:12 PM
Cindy,

Thank you for your words. I wish all the very best to you and your son. I hope you go back and confront the people who sold you patches as treatments for your son, and post what those people had to say for themselves.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 | 05:33 PM
I guess we know now why our Australian buddies are sooo excited.

http://thenaturalhealthguide.com.au/reviews/lifewave-launch-in-sydney-australia-lifewave-patches/

Of particular interest:

"I was very pleased LifeWave chose a very normal path and kept it real."

Please tell me how it's possible to keep a SCAM real?

"The evening was focused on the product and the science behind it."

What science? There is NO science...just the SCAM.

In referring to Schmidt:

"The main thing I liked about him was his perceived level of integrity."

Yes folks, the poster used the word INTEGRITY!

More about Scmidt:

"First he talked about how he started creating the patches and the successes along the way.

His story was interesting and a bit more detailed than on the LifeWave story dvd.

I was interested to here [hear] about his early days working with the US defense research and development team."

"This helped me put him in context, he is a military type was [with] the mind of an engineer and scientist, he is not coming from the medical background one would assume. It makes sense to me that such a product like LifeWave is infact an engineering science inspired device rather than a medical cure
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 | 05:46 PM
http://www.lifewavetraining.com/training-filipino.asp

Check out Schmidt's latest version of how the patches work.

"The new medicine is light."

What, no transistor radios?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 | 06:01 PM
http://lifewavesouthwest.com/

More amazing claims from Schmidt:

"I went on to get my degree in Management Information Systems only to discover after 4 years of higher education that I really did not want to be programming computers the rest of my life. So I did what seemed to be the logical thing: I got a job designing medical devices."

"...after about a year at this I decided to go back to school to get a degree in Biology as it now appeared that I was on the right track as far as my future was concerned."

What degree in Biology? Taken where?
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 | 12:48 AM
"'The main thing I liked about him was his perceived level of integrity.'

"Yes folks, the poster used the word INTEGRITY!"

He also used the word PERCEIVED which seems appropriate here..
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 | 07:39 PM
"It makes sense to me that such a product like LifeWave is infact [sic] an engineering science inspired device rather than a medical cure"

To our Aussie friend: What can you infer from the fact that an "engineering science inspired device" came from a guy with a Business Administration degree but no science degree? Perhaps that what's going on is purely business and no science ? ? ?

"It's just business, baby."
jayessell
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 | 05:41 AM
Cindy:

Sell the patches on eBay in packs of 3 rather than the quantity you purchased.

But...

State that they're for novelty use only.

Placebo effect testing.

DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. IT IS NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, CURE OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE; RESEARCH IS ONGOING. STATEMENTS CONTAINED HEREIN HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FOOD & DRUG ADMINISTRATION. AS IN ALL HEALTH SITUATIONS, QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS SHOULD BE CONSULTED.


(Thanks Energels!)
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 | 07:21 AM
<i>"Perhaps that what's going on is purely business and no science ? ? ?"</i>

Actually it is <i>marketing</i>, to be more precise.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 | 04:14 PM
If I remember correctly, LifeWave made it a condition of buying patches from them that they could not be sold on ebay.

I imagine it could all get a bit too real if the patches were subjected to feedback ratings.

The SCAM artist, David Schmidt, is the consumate cameleon. He adjusts his sales pitch to every new audience.

Look at how he started talking about light when he was interviewed.

http://www.lifewavetraining.com/training-filipino.asp

"30% of the energy in our body does in fact come from sunlight."

Schmidt then launches into the new sales pitch to match that particular audience.

As always, David Schmidt is a low life piece of scum peddling his scam products wherever he can.

What will be the next paradigm shift in how the patches work, I wonder?


?
Cindy
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 | 07:35 PM
Thanks everyone for the well wishes. I cannot, in good conscience, sell these stupid things to someone else.

I stumbled upon these patches on facebook. Someone claiming to have an autistic child said the patches made a dramatic difference in that child within three days of wearing the patch. They said this was because gluathione was a core enzyme in the body that autistic kids lack. We do, in fact, use enzymes to treat my son and so I didn't look at the product as hard as I would normally. I did look it up but I realize now that there are many, many website in favor of these patches. It's because they were all made by people tied to the product, itself!

This is the first time I've been had like this and it has left a sour taste, for sure. Because I have an autistic child and I'm an activist of sorts, I am telling all the other parents I know (which are many) about these patches and warning them not to fall prey.

Parents of autistic children or adults spend untold amounts on treatments. How dare these people jump in for a bite of that money when they have nothing to offer us.

We are not rich people. We're not well off. We live paycheck to paycheck, in fact.

Again, shame on them. I'd already like to have five minutes alone with the higher-ups from the big pharma companies. I might just add these idiots to my list.....
Diane
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 | 09:29 PM
Cindy

I was introduced to these patches by a doctor....they work. I have seen many miracles because of these patches.

You have stumbled across this website somehow...did you ask these guys for their credentials? However, you listen to them.

I personally believe they have a hidden agenda.

Let me tell you there are many doctors involved with this product, in fact I became involved with this product through a Doctor. Not just General Practitioners but Specialists.

These patches work....
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 | 07:30 PM
Ah, the reclusive Diane surfaces from Australia.

Thank you for your valuable insights, Diane, but I'm sorry to inform you that you are way off base.

You are part of the LifeWave movement as it attempts to con the good people of Australia.

We DO NOT have a "hidden agenda" as you put it.

Our (my) agenda is CLEAR for all to see. We have posted it here hundreds of times, but of course you don't bother to read past posts.

You are ONLY concerned that posts on this HOAX FORUM about the SCAM Company LifeWave will affect your ability to make money.

That's YOUR agenda...money honey.

Our agenda is to bring the fake "Dr." David Schmidt to account, no matter how long it takes.

It doesn't surprise me at all to read your thoughts on this forum being part of a conspiracy. That is well in line with your belief that LifeWave patches actually do anything at all.

As for doctors being involved in LifeWave...you are trying to be funny aren't you?

Fatty Haltiwanger is (was) a doctor. He was also struck off for his habit of using drugs that he prescibed for himself under the names of his patients. This information is, of course, verifiable. We deal in the REAL world.

Please don't tell me all the doctors in the world are squeeky clean, specialists or not.

Also, please don't expect us to believe doctors cannot be conned, just like you were. This thread contains posts I put on it a long time ago from one such doctor. He came to realise he had been "taken" by this scam.

Again, real world facts. I love to deal in facts, not fiction.

Unfortunately, as you sit at your computer, trying to make a better life for yourself, you are dealing in pure fiction, nothing else.

Smoke and mirrors Diane.

Sorry, Diane, you have been had by an American con man.

Was it good for you?

Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 | 11:29 PM
David Schmidt says, "30% of the energy in our body does in fact come from sunlight." http://www.lifewavetraining.com/training-filipino.asp

You gotta wonder where in all the universe the phony "Dr." Schmidt is getting his numbers.

Actually, 100% of the energy in our bodies comes from sunlight. The sun powers photosynthesis in autotrophs (such as plants). We eat the autotrophs, or we eat heterotrophs (such as animals) that eat the autotrophs, to get our energy. Hence, 100% of the energy in our bodies comes from sunlight.

Where does Schmidt think the other 70% comes from? Radioactive decay such as that which creates volcanoes and thermal vents? Cold fusion? Dilithium crystals?
Zyrs
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 | 03:10 AM
Hello;

I have been reading this thread since yesterday and it amazes me that anyone would believe in a product that the 'creator' of would refuse to have tested in peer reviewed studies for 5 years now.

I mean, why would that be a problem?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 | 10:46 AM
Zyrs

"I mean, why would that be a problem?"

For the simplest of explanations and the most obvious.

It's all a SCAM.

NONE of the "miracle" patches that our "inventor", with nothing more than a business degree, has brought to the MLM market place actually DOES anything at all.

Schmidt is purely a smoke and mirrors con man.

He IS clever enough to have kept this SCAM running for some years now, but that's all.

He IS clever enough to surround himself with people who have ideas, knowledge, expertise. He then systematically sucks them dry and leaves them by the curb while he moves on to the next person who can help improve his bank balance.

After all these years he STILL gets away with it! I guess he figures he can get away with it so he will.

God bless America!

!
supertati
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 | 04:10 AM
u guys r such haterz
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 | 06:10 AM
supertati

YES I hate SCAM artists!

What is your point?

?
Not bitten but still shy
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 | 01:58 AM
I attended my first (and only) Lifewave 'seminar' a couple of weeks ago. I thought shows like these were only on TV. It had all the exciting components of the YouTube videos - the strength challenge, the instant pain relief, the wheelchair-bound victim... Amazing. BUT!!!
The strength test 'volunteer' from the audience just happened to be with a person well known to the presenter (who acknowledged her by name). And when the patches were put on his shoes the 'right way' he was so strong, but when put on the 'wrong way' he was much weakened... pity he just had to look down to see which shoe the patches were on!
Next came the instant pain relief. Luckily there was a massage therapist in the audience with severe pain in his hands. He was unknown to the presenter (the presenter even asked him if they'd met before, and was told 'no') and had never tried the patches and knew nothing about them. He even admitted that. On a scale of one to ten, ten being worst, how was the pain? "A six." Enter the 'expert' patch-positioner. She placed the tan patch over the source of pain ("...be very specific in its location" advised the presenter). Instant relief.. pain level now four. Okay, lets introduce the white patch. Lets put it at the 12 o'clock position. (Note this diagram...) Hmm, better, maybe a 3 1/2. Okay, try 3 o'clock. Still there. Right, now 6 o'clock. Maybe 3. Right, try 9 o'clock. Perfect, the pain is gone. "Isn't that amazing?" (Applause) How lucky was it, though, that they had to go through the whole clock method to find the right position? A lucky break to demonstrate the method.
Okay, another victim, sorry, pain-sufferer. This bloke seemed really genuine, but his pain relief didn't seem quite as dramatic. Indeed, he said that it was more the lack of movement he had than pain. No worries, the patches will fix that. Unfortunately it didn't matter where on the clock they went the pain didn't go completely, even when the previously treated patient, with acknowledged no previous experience of the patches, got up and began giving advice to the lady positioning the patches. Must be a quick learner. Finally, though the pain hadn't gone completely there was "a much reduced level of pain, which proves the power of the patches".
The rest of the show was dramatic - a lady volunteer who couldn't twist more than half way around, until the patches were placed on her shoulders (more applause)- then a poor bloke in a wheelchair. We were drawn to this individual with great excitement, but when the desired responses didn't seem to be forthcoming we suddenly lost interest in him ("we need to allow more time for the patches to overcome such a terrible condition") and moved on to more demonstrable success. Then came the hard sell. Although these patches will give you instant relief, or instant energy, or help you sleep, you actually really need to do this other regime of four patches a day for fifteen days to detox yourself! So it seems this 15-day program will enhance the instant nature of the other patches. (Not sure how that is... must have dozed off).
The last part of the night was the acknowledgement that "this is a business" so we were all encouraged to bring "two, three, a dozen people" to the next seminar. Feel the love, and share the power (and dare I say, maybe make a few bob).
Sorry, I don't think these patches are for me - but hey, if you chance upon any new preparations for snake-oil elixur I'll be there in a heartbeat.
(I don't have time to go into all the garbage spruiked that night, including false references to TGA approval but take it from me, I saw plenty to convince me it was a huge scam. Maybe my level of healthy skepticism was more than they wanted me to bring.)
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 | 09:45 AM
NBBSS in Australia

Many thanks for the info. Sounds like a great night of free entertainment!

You tapped into the psychology of "the sell" that is present at any of these type of evenings.

Schmidt is slowly moving from Country to Country, making as much money as he can before too many people find out the truth, then moving on to the next green pasture.

At some stage, when those "participants" come to realise the truth of the scam they'll think back to the presenter who looked them in the eye and LIED plain and simple.

It's that easy!

!
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 | 10:45 AM
NBBSS in Australia:

Yes, thank you for that first hand report. David Schmidt seems to have very effectively tapped into the power of the placebo and psychological manipulation. The event you described had elements of a group timeshare sales pitch, and tent revival preacher Steve Martin performing his "faith healing" in the movie "Leap of Faith."

Like you, I would be interested in seeing that same "strength test" performed but without the demonstrator knowing which patch was on which shoe. Perhaps somebody at the next meeting can challenge the presenter, "OK, let's see if you can repeat the same effect but this time without anybody seeing which patch is on which shoe."
NBBSS
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 03:50 AM
Gosh, that darn internet. It makes me feel so insincere! Check out what one of the retailer/distributers in Australia says on his web site at: http://www.goodvibrations-electrostim.com/

"DISCLAIMER:
None of the above, or anything on this site with the exception of our Clinical Lasers has been evaluated by the FDA or the Australian TGA. These tools for good health are only intended for export or for personal experimental use.
There are no claims made; If the words 'cure', 'treat', 'diagnose' or 'healing' are used anywhere on this site it shall always be understood that this is meant in the context of 'personal experimental use' only."

Now there's someone sold on how well these patches (and all his other products for sale) work!
jayessell
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 06:21 AM
Thanks NBBSS!

Did you see the Energel disclaimer in my earlier post?
It's extra funny as it's at the bottom of a VooDoo gasoline saving product webpage.

I like the disclaimer you posted.

"These things don't work. Export them!" (Paraphrased)

Speaking of disclaimers, whatever you do, don't use your iPod to operate a nuclear reactor!

THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.
Lissa
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 06:26 PM
I have not read every message in this thread for obviouis reasons but what I have read so far I find to be ridiculous. We have been members of lifewave for a month, in that time I have begun using the y-age for my son who is on the autism spectrum. In just two weeks the changes are real and measurable. Although lifewave do not claim the use of the patch for autism, the independant research on the deficiency of glutathione in autistic children is amazing this is why we joined and began using them. You can not tell me that the changes in my son are not real and that the patches do not work. I also have used them for pain and they worked. My freinds that have tried them are also having major improvements in the areas they use the patches for.

I have read alot of posts that talk about a placebo effect, that its just mind over matter that makes the patches work.. well when livewave did the testing with horses and used the patches on 142 horses how the hell do horses use mind over matter?

In December 2005, Dr. Lauren DeRock published a study called
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 08:13 PM
Lissa,

It is unfortunate that this forum website does not make it obvious where to find comments that have been previously made about a particular topic (e.g., the horsey study). But as Bob at WWSN has pointed out and gave you the link, we previously tore that hilarious study apart. It wasn't an unbiased study, nor was it even a blind study.

And, as we previously posted, the Journal of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association decided, based upon that "study," that from now on they they should start peer reviewing journal articles before they publish them.

Please read the entire article itself (especially the last sentence which will have you howling), our analysis of it, and let us know if, in your considered opinion, the horsey study results are valid and credible.

We look forward to receiving your further input.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 08:21 PM
Lissa,

From your point of view it can only be you and LifeWave versus we useless skeptics.

However, I, for one, am as interested in exposing the TRUTH about David schmidt as you are.

You appear to have experienced some results but when the word placebo is mentioned you think only in terms of "in the mind".

This thread has mentioned numerous times (in the posts you haven't read) that groundbreaking research (of the real variety) shows real changes in brain function in people receiving placebo treatments. The treatment is a placebo but the effects are real.

You also put forward the De Rock study as proof that the patches MUST work because animals can't understand placebo effect.

Had you reasearched your own assertion you would discover that animals are subject to the placebo effect and babies/young children as well. In fact the placebo effect in babies is widely reported as a stronger effect than in adults.

How can that possibly be you may ask?

There is more to the LifeWave scam than meets the eye.

(By the way, as a result of the DeRock study, the Journal who published her article changed their methods for accepting articles to publish. They now have a peer review committee to make sure such a ridiculous and fraudulent study does not slip by in the future.)

You, like our other Australian posters, cannot believe that you have been HAD by an American. An American with a limited business degree and ZERO science background or academic qualifications.

There HAS to be something to the patches. Otherwise you've been conned and made to look foolish.

We do everything in our power not to look foolish, right?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 08:30 PM
Lissa,

You also mentioned that LifeWave makes no claims regarding autism and glutathione.

Perhaps you would like to get in touch with LifeWave and have this ad stopped!

http://www.revver.com/video/637320/autism-glutathione-increased-by-300-in-24-hours/

Many thanks
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 08:41 PM
Lissa.

To save you having to search.

The placebo pain study 2005:

http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2005/placebo.htm


Powerful stuff!

YES we can experience REAL effects from a placebo.

ONE MORE TIME:

If David Schmidt would like to change the labeling on his products to state that they are a PLACEBO, I would be VERY happy to give up posting here.

Really.
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 | 10:08 PM
GLUTATHIONE STUDY? NOT.

As far as I can tell, Lifewave keeps saying that there was a study that shows a supposed increase in glutathione from patch use. Their website, however, contains no copy of the putative study or any hard information about it (who/what/when/where?). So Lifewave doesn't even throw out a piece of paper with anybody's name on it claiming to have performed such a study.

Perhaps no study ever existed? Or perhaps the author/whore doesn't want his career ruined by being laughed at forever for having conducting a fraudulent study when he couldn't figure out any other way to put gas in his 20 year old Volvo with the windows rolled down in August?
Lissa
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 07:17 AM
I will read up on the study thankyou for the link. There is nothing you can say however to tell me that the changes in my son are not real. That the fact that my freind is using it on animals and its working! The fact that when I was in so much pain i couldnt lift my arms a week ago and I put the patches on that within ten minutes I had no pain and could move again. I am not anything high up in lifewave, Im a mum and wife from a coastal country town in australia, I make around 20,000 a year. I am nobody.. except someone who is having phenomal results with these patches and freinds who are too. I actually said to my partner that I would like to do my own research with a group of the kids from my autism group and pay for the patches myself and report the findings under the supervision of my sons doctor who is open to doing just that. I think the problem is the marketing hype that spoils alot of wonderful products. Companies go overboard with that crap. Great if I make some extra cash and get my patches for free.. but that is nothing compared to the results. I have done so much research into glutathione deficiencies and autism and every doctor who studies it comes up with the same thing. Austistic children have greater glutathione deficiencies than children who dont have it. And these are not lifewave studies these are independant clinical studies.

If they didnt work for people there would be a reason, because they work for me and for my family, and if people are saying they dont work and havent even tried them.. then their credibility is as low as they say david schimdts is.
Lissa
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 07:24 AM
Oh and btw, Lifewave has never, to me nor anyone I know ever said the patches are for use for autism. Glutathione is something I had already researched but there is incredible difficulty in getting the body to absorb glutathion introduced to the body artificially. The y-age patch made perfect sense to me in that it would stimulate the bodies own production of this much needed product. I have never ever been told by anyone in lifewave that it is for treating autisim. THat is MY call, my personal belief, my experience. I dont care how many dollars I have to spend if it will help my son. If i tried it and it didnt work I wouldnt be upset because no body from lifewave told me it would.
Lissa
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 07:59 AM
Im sorry I had to add also that I use the sleep patches as well, I had ten years of insomnia and five years ago went and had a sleep study done and was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I havent woken up once from not breathing in 3 weeks since using the sleep patches. I didnt even know that would be effected, I just used them because the brochure said I would be able to wind down and get into the theata brainwave level to be able to get to sleep. I also was involved in theata healing & hypnosis so I understand all about the mind body connection and how yes your body is a powerful thing that can create some forms of intense healing on its own. Have followed louise hays work for many years. But your mind can only take you so far and the key to healing your body with your mind is belief! If people dont believe the patches will work and put them on and then they do work, that theory is out of the water. Belief is the reason they cant scientifically prove that the body can heal itself due to mind power. You can measure someones inner beliefs about this so its immeasurable and unable to be tested. You can however test if they dont believe. Again, the only stuff I have read in the last 4 weeks or so for the patches use is what they say they are for. And each one has worked for us so far. I dont know what else to tell you. I dont know how to prove it to you from a computer screen.
Lissa
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 08:00 AM
typo> *you cant measure someones inner beliefs
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 03:43 PM
Lissa in Australia,

I agree with Bob's sentiments. I do hope you follow through with the various Autism organisations in Australia.

I would also suggest that you contact LifeWave and request assistance in your desire to conduct a study with autistic children.

Don't forget, to have any credibility, your study MUST follow the widely accepted standards on scientific studies.

For example, it will need to be a double blind study at the very least. You must not know which patches are placebo and which are the real LfeWave patches. Of course you will need a method to have patches that look identical to the real patches but with different contents. Your levels of "improvement" will have to be agreed upon and a non-subjective method of demonstrating "improvement" worked out. Without these basic precautions, your "study" will be worthless and fall under the category of annectdotal evidence, which is where all of your current "evidence" falls.

I'm sure a local University, for example, would be willing to help with the study design.

A good while back I had an email conversation with a scientist in Canada about this very subject. She was involved in nanotechnology so I figured I was talking to an appropriate person as Schmidt has based the patches on nanotechnology according to his website.

The scientist told me not to waste my time as the company was clearly a scam and the "science" made absolutely no sense.

That should NOT stop you from trying though. You have achieved real results.

"There is nothing you can say however to tell me that the changes in my son are not real."

I would remind you that I, and others, have pointed out that real results are verifiably possible from a placebo. The pain study above is just one of many examples.

Has anyone stated that the changes in your son are not real?

Our only point where we must agree to disagree is that you firmly believe LifeWave patches are a breakthrough science. I believe the LifeWave company to manufacture placebo products.

The logical alternative, as I have mentioned many times here, is that Schmidt has been producing transdermal patches that actually put something into the body via the skin. This would be illegal if true.

Please keep this forum informed about your progress with a study. Also don't forget that if the study proves the patches work, and the study can be reliably replicated, you are CERTAIN to win the $1 Million prize from the James Randi Foundation here in the USA. (Don't let anyone tell you the money is not real etc. as the existence of the money has been verified.)

Best wishes,
Dave
Lissa
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 06:19 PM
Thankyou for those responses, I am absolutely dedicated to continuing this and finding out if it really will be the help us mums & families need. I am familiar with those sites you mentioned WWSN1, I have already made plans to contact them when I have had nick on the patches for one month, I have printed out independant studies and information on the Glutathione Deficiency and I am gathering all I can to put together to take to my doctor & my autism support group. I do plan to do exactly as you said, get my support group involved to test the effectiveness of this. I got involved for this aspect, not the mlm, I want to bring health and wellbeing to my family and as many families as i can because the suffering from this disorder and from many others that are effected by glutathione deficiency should not be happening.

I believe that all disease could be cured tomorrow. The real scammers are the pharmacutical companies. Here in australia there was a doctor in W.A who was curing cancer for 20 years.. the AMA would not fund him to help him prove it, they tried to take his license away, they didnt though. They wouldnt publish any of his findings. The story ended up on a current affair that is how I saw it. I was so mad, my brother died of cancer 5 years after this doctor started his work. I am not sure of the machine and the principals behind it, but I remember a current affair did go into the actual science of the machine he was using which was if memory serves me right some kind of xray machine he had modified. I dont remember any more than that, however the hundreds and hundreds of patients that he had documented and had healed could not be doubted. But once again in swoops the medical associations and the pharmacutical companies and slaps a gag order on him. It happens over and over again to anyone who comes up with a cure to anything.. there is no money in people being healthy. Maybe you could spend some time taking on these guys.

I appreciate that you only want to provide advice and help in pointing out things with Lifewave that maybe us novices dont look for and for that I am grateful your site here exists. The thing I dont like is the nastyness and sarcasticness of the anti-lifewave comments. That is uncalled for & definately contributes to people getting their back up when told that the results they are seeing are nothing more than placebo effects. As I said, I have worked in an alternative therapies field for many years, I do know the placebo effect take place, the mind is an amazing thing and has potentials we may never be able to understand or prove, but in all my practice & experience, Belief is the key component. People can say they believe on the outside but if they dont really believe in their subconscious, they get very limited results. I do believe however that this would be the opposite with these patches and in the interests of getting to the truth whether I end up being wrong or not, I will try to do all i can to do some testings, put together some study groups and use the standards you mention above.

One more thing, I do not know what the U.S position is, but here, Lifewave will fund & pay doctors in hospitals to run double blind studies using their patches. If a member contacts a hospital that is willing to participate, lifewave will fund it all. I dont know about you, but that doesnt seem like someone who is providing a fake patch. There is no way they would put themselves in the firing line like that if they werent confident about their product... that is how i look at it.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 | 06:33 PM
Lissa in Australia

"One more thing, I do not know what the U.S position is, but here, Lifewave will fund & pay doctors in hospitals to run double blind studies using their patches. If a member contacts a hospital that is willing to participate, lifewave will fund it all. I dont know about you, but that doesnt seem like someone who is providing a fake patch. There is no way they would put themselves in the firing line like that if they werent confident about their product... that is how i look at it."

WOW !!!!!

That truly is an amazing turnaround.

For the past 5 years people here in the US have been trying simple things like getting some samples to try out. With no success.

One of our posters had to get a bank authorised refund for patches as LifeWave refused to honor their money back guarantee.

If LifeWave is truly going to cooperate with institutuions who can conduct real scientific trials, for the very first time, it will be astounding. I will be very interested to read the results as I'm sure everyone will be over here.

I admire you for following through. I wish you good luck and every success as well as improvement in your son's condition.

Dave
*
NBBSS
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 | 07:34 AM
I'm glad to see a Lifewave supporter willing to undertake further study. Lissa the important thing to remember is that the study must be independant from any Lifewave research or published reports. Because Lifewave does link their y-Age patches to successful 'results' (they are careful not to say treatment) with autism by way of the Glutathione the patches supposedly produce (or allow to be absorbed).
You say that you are not high up in Lifewave but I bet that, if you are not already, you will soon become a distributor, if only to save money on the cost of the products. This is one of the worst aspects of this whole scam. If the Lifewave people were genuinely interested in 'helping the world one person at a time' as some of their promotional material says why wouldn't they make the products available to everybody at the same price? Surely that would boost sales significantly. But of course, that's not how MLM works, and as was stated at the seminar I attended 'this is, after all, a business'.
Finally, perhaps to answer EDHUK's comment about getting realistic-looking Lifewave patches for use as placebo patches, maybe they could use the 'expired' patches. Once they have been worn they are supposed to be discarded. I can only take this to mean that they would no longer work, so would make ideal 'placebos'. Of course, if they could still work then the test might be compromised, but then why do they need to be discarded? Surely not just so that they have to be replaced regularly at a cost.
And if the y-Age patches can really 'detoxify cigarette smoke' as the Lifewave video claims why don't governments around the world simply issue them to smokers rather than spend millions of dollars on health care treating smoking-related illnesses? Or are those governments simply in bed with the pharmaceutical companies and the tobacco companies for their own benefits?
My final words support what has been mentioned by other posters. If the patches are working for you Lissa, fantastic, and I wish you and your son well. Please stay true to that, but don't become part of the Lifewave con network which really is more about flogging a dubious product through MLM rather than genuinely contributing to the advancement of medical treatment of pain and other serious conditions.
Lissa
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 | 07:44 AM
Hi,

Its 11.30pm and I can not call my sponsor and find out if this is absolute 100% correct memory on my part, but he was at a small gathering on the gold coast last month when David Schmidt came over to launch the opening of the Gold Coast Warehouse. In my memory, my sponsor told me that David himself told him and the others there that they would fund the hospital studies.

Now, I am human and in my 40's and my memory isnt what it used to be lol, so I am not going to claim that as fact at this point but its too late to call him so I will call tomorrow and let you know exactly what was said and who said it and when.

Todays update, I emailed Dr Jill James:

"Dr. James is the Director of the Metabolic Genomics Laboratory at ACHRI and a collaborator of the Arkansas Center for Birth Defects Research and Prevention. Her research is focused on the understanding of the metabolic and genetic factors that may be mechanistically involved in the etiology of autism, Down syndrome, and childhood acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL). The Metabolic Genomics team measures plasma levels of metabolites that are predictive of impaired methylation capacity and oxidative stress. In addition, the lab measures genetic polymorphisms that could contribute to an increased risk of oxidative stress and decreased glutathione-mediated antioxidant defense.

Most recently, this approach has been used to study metabolic profiles and related genotypes that may increase the risk of autism. Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by impairment in social interaction and language accompanied by social withdrawal and repetitive hyper-focused behaviors. The abnormal metabolic and genetic profiles discovered in Metabolic Genomics lab indicate that autistic children may be more vulnerable to environmental factors that increase oxidative stress. It is generally accepted that both genetic and environmental factors interact to negatively affect neurologic and immunologic function during prenatal and postnatal development in autistic children. Recent evidence from Dr. James
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