The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Richard Hayd
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 08:48 AM
Three years after withdrawing its pain medication Vioxx from the market, Merck has agreed to pay $4.85 billion to settle 45,000 lawsuits by people who claim they or their family members suffered injury or died after taking the drug, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter New York Times.

What does this say about the system, the "scientists", and the FDA?

What does it say about the double blind randomized clinical trials that are the "gold standard" "tour de force" of great science?

Maybe those people affected were just suffering from a placebo?
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 10:27 AM
Shouldn't LifeWave be testing people for reverse polarity (whatever that is) BEFORE they put patches on them?

Based on Tara's experience, all Lifewave users should DEMAND that Lifewave pay to have their polarities tested, and that they receive a written report stating which polarities they have, BEFORE they buy a single patch.

Failure to do so sounds like gross negligence and gross disregard for people's health and well being on LifeWave's part.

What do you think, Richard?
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 10:46 AM
Richard, and what does any of that have to do with Lifewave?

Oh wait, nothing.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 11:00 AM
Richard Hayd

"What does this say about the system, the "scientists", and the FDA?"

1. This thread is about the LifeWave patches scam.

2. No one ever claimed the FDA is perfect!

3. The Vioxx settlement was widely reported a few days ago on the news channels. The system may be far from perfect, but it usually, finally, works.

Are your questions designed to entice people into believing David Schmidt, with a 2 year business degree and total lack of bona fide scientific credentials, invented the most amazing technology in the past hundred years?

Do you suggest that the "system" is flawed, therefore Schmidts silly patches are real?

Do you have irrefutable evidence that the patches are a real brand new technology and work?

Would you put your reputation behind such claims?

Will you put your reputation behind such claims?

?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 12:04 PM
If we are to take Richard Hayd seriously we should immediately stop double blind placebo testing. And those pesky scientists? Well we obviously can't have them doing research and development on new drugs anymore. We'll leave that up to 2-year business diploma grads doing it in their kitchens. Then we'll wait and see what annecdotal reports come back from consumers before we decide if a new treatment works. Yeah, right.

If the Vioxx case tells us anything, it's that we need even more stringent testing than we are already doing. I would also suggest the FDA could use some help from the FTC to rid the country (in the U.S. anyway) of scam products and treatments (chiropractic, homeopathy, blessed water, acupuncture, etc). This would ensure the FDA's limited resources are not wasted dealing with the woo woo masquerading as real science.

What testing has Lifewave been through to ensure it is safe for consumers? Nothing that we've seen here. If the FDA's extensive test protocols failed for Vioxx, why should we trust Lifewave which hasn't been through any?
Richard Hayd
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 12:52 PM
It's like beating your head of a brick wall to you imbeciles. If "scams" work even as a placebo they are much better and safer than the deadly and toxic drugs that are widely touted and in most cases not fully understood - even by the FDA or their scientists.

http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws99.htm

Captain Al -
How many deaths per year from Chiropractic, Homeopathy, Blessed Water, Acupuncture or even the "Scam Lifewave Patch" - and how many perceived benefits (placebo) as opposed to deaths by conventional medicines OR misdiagnoses from medical doctors?

DS is no more or no less than a scam artist than ANY doctor who prescribes a drug and has performed ZERO due diligence. If a doctor leaves the testing up to the "authorities" then the testing becomes tainted by the very nature of where the funding came from to perform the tests in the first place - and that goes for all your high and might Universities as well.

Captain AL -

Mercury - neurotoxin - added to Vaccines. Why?
Aspartame - neurotoxin - added to food supply Why?
Fluoride - neurotoxin - Added to water Why?

Vioxx - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Lotronex - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Redux - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Raxar - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Posicor - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Duract - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Rezulin - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Propulsid - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption
Bextra - Deadly APPROVED for human consumption

....and I could go on.

Chiropractic - no known deaths - hundreds of thousands feel better

Homeopathy - no known deaths - hundreds of thousands report healing.

Blessed Water - not sure what this is? Maybe the Popes Holy water - probably helps some people who "believe" it will help them

Acupuncture - thousand year old method for relieving pain and inducing healing - no known deaths and millions report benefits.

Lifewave Patches - no known deaths - helps some overcome pain, others feel no effect or some report some ill effects (nausea, fatigue etc)

Maybe the FDA are waiting for a few thousands deaths before they will APPROVE it for human use.

So please, don't call SCAM on "unproven methods" and then support other SCAMS just because they are "proven and APPROVED".

IMHO when something is APPROVED by the FDA - STAY AWAY and when the FDA go after you with a vengeance to shut you down for "quackery" then there is probably something working that could replace one of their "approved drugs".

Money talks in the land of the free, and unfortunately people die because of it. If you cared as much to expose THAT FACT it might serve you better - if helping the people and not your ego is really what you are all about.
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 02:51 PM
Richard Hayd:

A real treatment, proven by proper studies to have REAL benefit, will work even better than a placebo, because the REAL treatment will have the combined benefits of both REAL effects and the placebo effect. Seems pretty simple to me.

That's why REAL treatments are better than Lifewave's fake treatment. That's why fake treatments have been declared by the courts to be fraudulent, even if they exhibit placebo effect.

Yes, The System is flawed, nobody doubts that. That's why the System tolerates ambulance chasing plaintiff's lawyers as the backup in case the first lines of defense against quackery and unreasonably dangerous products fail such as in the Vioxx case.

In fact, I suggest that without the FDA and the other components of the System which you seem to despise, placebos would have virtually no effect. Placebos, by definition, require deception. It helps DS's deception for people to think, "Lifewave hasn't been shut down yet by the FDA or the FTC yet, David Schmidt is not behind bars yet, and he hasn't been sued into oblivion yet, so LifeWave must be real." So the existence of the FDA and the System are, it seems to me, fairly necessary components of any medical or quasi-medical scam.

Without the System (that is, if people knew that any scam artist can say anything he wants, and sell dangerous products and always get away with it, and that there are therefore hundreds of thousands of people out there selling hundreds of thousands of fake treatments), nobody would believe anything or anybody, and hardly anybody would pursue any treatment or cure.

The only reason that LifeWave "works" on any level is because both of the following are true: (a) the System exists, less than perfect though it be, and (b) David Schmidt lies.

So don't despise the System. Without it you and David Schmidt probably wouldn't be able to sell a single patch.

Cheers.
Anotherone
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 05:26 PM
For Tara,,,(Cranky Media Guy..please ignore this note..you already know much more than is said here with all of your "research"..so don't waste your time)--polarity and muscle testing are of course real..Proven...doesn't mean Lifewave is worth anything, but can't stand to hear all things which connect to it thrown into the same batter...and for my opinion,,I don;t think the patches are a real thing..I've done some testing in my office..but who knows..if it works for you, knock yourself out..I've been around long enough to know I don't know everything..never change a harmless thing that is working for someone..enjoy the beauty of what works and forget those who can't stand seeing others helped by things they don't understand..
Richard Hayd
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 05:34 PM
<i>A real treatment, proven by proper studies to have REAL benefit, will work even better than a placebo, because the REAL treatment will have the combined benefits of both REAL effects and the placebo effect. Seems pretty simple to me.</i>

OK please name them for me? Especially the approved treatments that are not toxic have no side effects and work better than a Lifewave "Placebo" Patch.

<i>That's why fake treatments have been declared by the courts to be fraudulent, even if they exhibit placebo effect.</i>

What do the courts know about medicine? It seems like they barely know the LAW anymore. In the land of the free should you not be free to choose your own mode of treatment, should you be diagnosed with a disease?

Look at what your courts deem to be fair treatment...I sincerely hope if you ever come down with a disease that the Communist courts of the US A don't preside over your freedom of choice

http://angryscientist.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/mother-jailed-put-on-trial-for-cu\
ring-her-son-of-melanoma/

<i>Yes, The System is flawed, nobody doubts that.</i>

So why do you want the system to test efficacy and why do believe everything that is regurgitated by the system?

<i>In fact, I suggest that without the FDA and the other components of the System which you seem to despise, placebos would have virtually no effect. Placebos, by definition, require deception.</i>

How can you deceive a lab rat? Most placebo's are performed on mice, rats or rabbits do you think they know they are being deceived?? LOL

<i>It helps DS's deception for people to think, "Lifewave hasn't been shut down yet by the FDA or the FTC yet, David Schmidt is not behind bars yet, and he hasn't been sued into oblivion yet, so LifeWave must be real." So the existence of the FDA and the System are, it seems to me, fairly necessary components of any medical or quasi-medical scam.</i>

Sorry I don't see the logic. If I was selling a pain killer that DID NOT kill pain, I would not be in business very long. People would maybe buy once say sorry this didn't work and not buy again. I ask you this - have you ever bought a "Brand Name" anything that flat out didn't work? Was it a scam. Are the people getting results from it experiencing only a placebo?

The FDA don't seem to be bothered by what DS is doing because he is doing nothing "wrong". If he was the "system" would come after him. Why don't you if you are so agreeable with the system, sue DS and bring him to his knee's - if it so easy to prove this is a scam and you are so sure it is a scam it should be a slam dunk and "Your friend" the system will help you.

<i>Without the System (that is, if people knew that any scam artist can say anything he wants, and sell dangerous products </i> You sound like Fox News here creating a SCARE tactic out of nowhere - where is the dangerous product - did I not already list you 10 DEADLY PRODUCTS that you seem to have completely ignored because the system APPROVED them <i> and always get away with it, and that there are therefore hundreds of thousands of people out there selling hundreds of thousands of fake treatments), nobody would believe anything or anybody, and hardly anybody would pursue any treatment or cure.</i>

Drugs don't CURE disease they chase symptoms of disease - hardly anybody looks for a cure anymore in the mainstream because it is not profitable and their research funders wouldn't like it.

<i>So don't despise the System. Without it you and David Schmidt probably wouldn't be able to sell a single patch.</i>

I don't sell patches, but currently I am free to buy them - with or without the system. The day that I cannot exercise my freedom to buy what I want to buy, especially when it is proven to "do no harm" then that is another step further from liberty and freedom for all. That is what you are ultimately supporting
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 06:00 PM
"Drugs don't CURE disease they chase symptoms of disease..."

Are you sure you haven't posted here before?

"It's like beating your head of a brick wall to you imbeciles."

Ah the anger, the vehemence, the atrocious wording.

The system is out to get us and yet you stick around, or maybe you live outside the USA?

"Look at what your courts deem to be fair treatment...I sincerely hope if you ever come down with a disease that the Communist courts of the US A don't preside over your freedom of choice..."

Yes, perhaps in another country.

"I don't sell patches, but currently I am free to buy them - with or without the system."

You are free to buy them, but let's not forget that by implying there may be credence to David Schmidt's outrageous claims you take responsibility for the scam along with all the other promoters.

It's one thing to be fooled into wasting one's own money. It's a totally different thing to help con others.

*
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 08:10 PM
Richard:

"I don't sell patches, but currently I am free to buy them"

And if you haven't found the information and opinions expressed on this forum to be helpful, which is here to balance out all of the numerous sites that regurgitate David Schmidt's blithering nonsense and parlor tricks combined with baldfaced lies, you're free to ignore it, buy and use the patches, contribute to DS's bank account, and move along if you so choose. You've reached your conclusion. Good for you.

"you imbeciles"

You reinforce my suspicions that the patches DO have the effect of making people mean, bitter, nasty, belligerent little trolls. That could be why DS quit calling them Harmony Patches.

So many patch believers react to contrary information and opinions like Linda Blair reacting to holy water in The Exorcist. Weird.

I don't understand what the mechanism would be for sugar and glycerin patches turning people into nasty little trolls, but patch believers keep saying that the skeptics should keep open minds, so you never know.

"The FDA don't seem to be bothered by what DS is doing because he is doing nothing 'wrong'."

I hate to burst your bubble, but the FDA doesn't bother DS because his products are not within the FDA's jurisdiction. Have you noticed the disclaimers on LifeWave's site that are clearly worded to help ensure that LifeWave does NOT fall within the FDA's jurisdiction?

Neither has the FDA or the FTC bothered our friend Karma Singh who, like DS, is still in business with his hilarious harmony chip. So DS is in good company.

You should try the harmony chip. http://www.harmonyunited.com/start.html . It does soooooo much more than LifeWave patches, it comes with numerous testimonials and a money back guarantee just like LifeWave, and it lasts for 10 years rather than a single day. Such a deal.
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 08:34 PM
Richard:

"The FDA don't seem to be bothered by what DS is doing because he is doing nothing 'wrong.'"

Wow, that's an amazing amount of faith you place in the FDA (or FTC?) to quickly mobilize and stop wrongdoing dead in its tracks. I don't have nearly that much faith in our government or its ability to move at anything beyond a glacial pace.

Wait. No fair switching sides and expressing blind faith in the FDA.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 | 11:16 PM
Richard, please try to actually stay on subject. Your big pharma/FDA conspiracy theories don't have anything to do with lifewave.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 01:05 AM
It really gets frustrating watching LifeWave's defenders use the same poor logic over and over.

NO ONE disputes that the pharmaceutical companies sometimes produce medicines that turn out not to be as advertised, even harmful.

How does that in any way "prove" that LifeWave works? It is entirely possible that some conventional medicine isn't good AND that LifeWave is bullshit. One does NOT preclude the other.

Those of you who rail against science need to immediately turn off your computer, unplug your TV and radio and every other modern device you use and throw them away. After all, they are ALL the result of that nasty science you hate so much. I'd say you could keep the helpful devices produced by "alternative" means, except there AREN'T ANY.

No scientist (or anyone else with two active brain cells) claims that science is foolproof. It's merely the best method we have to determine how the world around us works and make practical use of that information.

As others have noted, if Dave Schultz's patches really work as advertised, then he has discovered a way to refute the known laws of physics and he would be up for the Nobel Prize as well as becoming a billionaire overnight.

Instead, he's hustling his silly little patches to a small group of women in a strip mall gym. See anything wrong with that picture?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 01:25 AM
anotherone said:

"For Tara,,,(Cranky Media Guy..please ignore this note..you already know much more than is said here with all of your "research"..so don't waste your time)--polarity and muscle testing are of course real..Proven."

I'm SO sorry for not listening to you and replying to this. *laugh*

What does "you already know much more than is said here with all of your 'research'" mean? I honestly don't know what you're trying to say there.

"polarity and muscle testing are of course real..Proven."

Oh? Where has it been "proven" and by whom, please?

If the human body has "polarity," where are the poles? We ARE talking about electrical polarity, yes?

The "muscle testing" thing that kinesiologists do is a VERY tired, old scam. Ellen Degeneres actually refers to one of the variations of it in an old HBO special, which is where it belongs since it's a joke.
Anotherone
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 03:39 AM
did you hear? they can now do EKGs..E stands for eleectrical..guess what surrounds every electrical current? Oh, and I didn't realized Ellen Degeneris had debunked a procedure that has been shown reliable in peer reviewed studies with double blind procedure..maybe I should watch more tv so I too can be cranky..and by the way, you look it up..I'm not doing your research for you..watch a little less television, I have a job
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 12:15 PM
Really Anotherone, and what studies are you referring to?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 02:03 PM
anotherone said:

"you look it up..I'm not doing your research for you..watch a little less television, I have a job"

AKA "I *think* I read that somewhere or maybe I just pulled it out of my ass but I'm afraid that if I look it up, I'll find that it doesn't exist so I'll just be sarcastic."

Uh, it isn't MY research. YOU'RE the one making the claim, so either YOU look it up or concede that you don't know what you're talking about.

As for the Ellen DeGeneres thing, she referred to it in the context of a bit about not liking to wear dresses. She didn't "refute" it but made fun of it.

"did you hear? they can now do EKGs..E stands for eleectrical..guess what surrounds every electrical current?"

EKG stands for Electro Kardio Gram. Did you mean EEG (Electro Encephalo Gram)? The former tests the heart; the latter tests the brain.

So, according to you, polarity SURROUNDS an electrical current? Hmm, I thought it referred to the direction of flow.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 03:51 PM
"...enjoy the beauty of what works and forget those who can't stand seeing others helped by things they don't understand..."

The point being that we DO understand how David Schmidt has successfully, so far, conned people out of a great deal of money.

What's to understand?

Schmidt very kindly disclosed the contents of his two patch system way back in the early days.
11/23/2004 MVA Study

http://www.lifewave.com/pdf/Research/Research004-MVAStudy11-23-04.pdf (2.74 MB)

Page 2 Methods:

"A reagent was chosen, based on information provided by the manufacturer, that would react with substances present in the brown (glucose) patch and in the white (glycerin) patch."

No mystery here, couldn't be much plainer. White patch contains glycerin, brown patch contains glucose. What part don't you get?

Over 3 years later, with Schmidt carrying on in the tradition of a snake oil salesman, there are STILL people who are determined to attribute to him amazing "powers".

How can people be so awe inspiringly, gobsmackingly, totally perplexingly, humongously, utterly determindly dumb?

Because they are lucky enough to have freedom of choice.

Is that cool or what?

?
Anotherone
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 08:20 PM
no, cranky guy..you said it was debunked..I said in response that it was real..now this is only a website where you can obviously say what you want with nothing to back it up..where was it debunked..and by the way, a simple google search brings up a study in moments showing the efficacy of muscle testing..anyway, who cares? you don't want to believe it works, that's up to you..don't use it..I only responded because you claimed to another that things like polarity and muscle testing were ridiculous (my interpretation of your comment)..as you know, I basically agree with you on Lifewave, just this other stuff, don't know why you need to bash it..but its a big world..many things both true and false are not believed by many people..really, it doesn't matter much to me unless you are trying to disuade or discourage another with things I know to be otherwise..
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 08:47 PM
Anotherone

You may be referring to another kind of muscle "testing" than the party trick variety we have acknowledged many times on this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr8MHgWZyAs

The same party trick David Schmidt uses when he makes his claims about the patches.

As to polarity in the human body, I really would be interested in any information you have on the subject.

If you have a few moments perhaps you could suggest some areas of reading or post a few links where I could read about body polarity.

Many thanks,
Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 | 08:59 PM
This party trick:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/cra.htm

"Sometimes a form of quackery is promoted with such a breathtaking arrogance, duplicity, and disregard both for the truth and for the lives and welfare of potential victims that it almost defies belief."

This party trick:

http://www.randi.org/jr/062504interesting.html#2

FIGHTIN' OVER PHITEN

Enjoy!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 | 01:01 AM
Yup, EDHUK, that's the very party trick I was referring to and which Ellen DeGeneres made fun of in her special.

She was talking about "alternative" healing and that kind of thing. She said that she was handed a dress and her arm immediately fell (supposedly indicating that she had an aversion to dresses).

It really isn't a big deal; I just wanted to show that the "arm falling" thing isn't new and that it's pretty silly.

If the "polarity" of the human body has been scientifically established, I'd like to see some proof.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 | 11:51 AM
I, for three, would like to see some scientific evidence that the human body has a polarity, and especially that some people have one polarity and other people have reverse polarity. Being an electrical engineer, this would be of great interest to me.

It's somewhat off topic, because David Schmidt didn't mention anything about polarity reversals in his patent application, and LifeWave peddlers only seem to mention polarity reversal as an excuse when the patches don't work. Still, I'm game for reviewing the scientific literature. Anotherone?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 | 02:37 PM
Joel,

Even more of a chuckle is that somewhere in the past 221 pages it was noted that David Schmidt didn't even understand the basic flow of electrons as in Electricity 101.

Yet the very same man expects the world to believe he is the greatest scientific inventor in the past 100 years!
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 | 04:00 PM
I remember that. That was indeed funny. Maybe once he gets that "negative to positive" thing wired, his next invention will work even better.
Anotherone
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 | 08:02 PM
I can't say that what the polarity bodyworkers speak about is equivalent to the definition of an electrical engineer, so I'll just tell you what I know. For example, and this assumes the validity of muscle testing (real muscle testing as I believe is outlined in the book Force vs. Power and which has been shown in double blind studies to be reliable to a significant degree--I know you want studies..I found one or two on line and I have some in journals..but that is not for now)..when a person holds their arm up (one more time I'll say that I am speaking about a very specific way of doing it..not a parlor trick) now when their arm is strong and then you put your palm on their body at a specific site--usually determined by acupuncture meridian points (I know. another problem for some) and their arm is strong,,you then touch the same point with the back of your hand or a fist and now their arm is weak..there is an interpretation that the palm has a positive charge relative to the back of the hand which is comparitively negative..this is one way of saying it..the idea of reverse polarity is really a misnomer..it means that for reasons that are varied (dehydration being a main one) a person is unable to be tested because their readings are not going to be reliable..its really not reverse polarity, that's just a saying..so while this may sound ridiculous to some I'll give you one example..a patient brings to me blood work that shows what they are allergic to..I don't look at it but test using muscle testing based on these principles...I always find them allergic to the things on the test and in fact find things the test misses..what do I mean?..I'll say you know I find you are reactive/allergic/sensitive or whatever to apple and they say, you know the blood work didn't show it, but whenever I eat an apple my tongue tingles, for example..my main point is that these things are easy to make fun of..but after doing this work for nearly 30 years it isn't just placebo or wishful thinking or anything else..there is absolutely something there..you may not want to call it polarity or whatever,,that to me isnt' the point..there is something that works..often I do things that I can't fully explain but they are reliable and valid..now whatever this Lifewave guy says or does, who knows? but there is a ton of research..ok, well maybe not a ton, but alot that verfies what I see clincially everyday...I hope this makes sense, too tired to read before sending...but I did this in response to what I thought was a real question and hope it is taken with the same respect..but can't control who we talk to on the net..so here goes
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 | 08:57 PM
Anotherone,
I kind of get what you are saying about polarity now, but still I don't buy it. If this "knowledge" has been around for at least 30 years and it is true, why don't we hear about it from our regular doctors or see it on Nova programs?

...the idea of reverse polarity is really a misnomer..it means that for reasons that are varied (dehydration being a main one) a person is unable to be tested because their readings are not going to be reliable...

How could a person's state of hydration affect this? It seems when you don't get the expected results you blame it on something else instead of the possibility this phenomenon doesn't exist.

Sorry to be such a cynic but I'm willing to bet those studies you have are from some publication that isn't respected by the majority of the scientific community.
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 08:10 PM
" ...the idea of reverse polarity . . . really . . . means that . . . their readings are not going to be reliable..."

Very interesting. Whenever somebody doesn't react as hoped/predicted:

"You didn't react the way we predicted because your polarity is reversed."

"Exactly what does that mean?"

"It means that you didn't always react the way we had predicted. That's the definition of having reversed polarity. That's all it means - no more, no less."
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 08:34 PM
Joel,

The reverse polarity for me is a neat way for LifeWave to get a second bite of the cherry.

A person tries the patches but experiences nothing.

LifeWave comes to the rescue with a scientific sounding explanation of what took place, or rather what didn't take place.

Given that the person trying the patches is already inclined to believe some pretty whacky things (after all they bought the patches to start with) they try again, as suggested by LifeWave, reversing the positions of the brown (glucose ) and white (glycerin) patches.

This time, by pure chance, they feel a certain way, a certain mood, something is different, and they attribute that change to the patches.

Placebo is placebo, but the person feels the patches did the trick and duly lay out more good money after bad.

What a system!

*
Anotherone
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 08:46 PM
two responses..first on the reverse polarity..now that we've established that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with that phrase..there are certain things that happen with muscle testing that are checked before doing the analysis to see if the person is "eligible" for testing..its like asking a person, are you going to tell me the truth..if they say no, there's no point in going further at that time unless they agree to tell the truth..that's all it is..now to the other point..I do alot of work as I have said in these related fields..for simplicity sake, I'll just pick one..that has to do with the application in allergies..so a person comes to me..and they are often skeptical to begin with, perhaps dragged in by a spouse or whatever and they have an allergy where they can't drink milk without getting some kind of gastric upset...I treat them using a combination of acupressure and muscle testing a technique called NAET..after a visit or two they can drink milk, perhaps for the first time in their life..they ask, why doesn't my doctor know about this, as if its my responsibility...or as if that will allow him to believe what he is experiencing himself..this happens often particularly with this quite reliably successful technique..so why don't the real doctors know about this..well, some do..if you look at the website there are mds who do the procedure, I meet some at the seminars..but to tell you the truth, at this point I could care less..I find their profession increasingly disappointing...as a group they are not very investigative or open minded and have a mind set that won't be budged by facts..I don't care. they can be like that..their time has pretty much seen its hayday already..the only thing they control anymore is the insurance industry and they don't have the influence they used to either..so when I get asked for proof of my reality and the reality of thousands of others via the "establishment" I am not interested..I tried for years for a dialogue..its easier to just deal with patients..most of them have sold out..they do no research..they don't look at the devastating effects of their top selling drugs so who cares what they think??..I don't know who controls NOVA or these other outlets, but they have their bias..and that's their preogative..its their show, not mine..and by the way, year one of a double blind university study has been completed by the NAET society on autism..in the treatment group 23 of 30 children were mainstreamed in classrooms after one year of treatment..they are finishing year two before releasing the study..but, I don't expect any big uproar over this..politics as usual..its a big world and unfortuantely there are plenty of people who need help..those who want to stick with the establishment only are welcome to it..we're busy enough...
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 09:23 PM
Anotherone:

I appreciate your sticking around. You seem sincere in what you're saying. But there doesn't seem to be any connection to Lifewave.

On a personal note, I had one experience with "muscle testing" of a type similar to what you discussed. That testing was what quack holistic vet Dr. Roger Valentine used to test my cat Fluffy (not her real name) for allergies, and then treat her by thumping Fluffy upside the head to readjust her resonant frequencies. When I asked him whether he could perform the same diagnostic muscle test on Fluffy with repeatable results if I hid the labels on his vials from him, he said he could. But then he failed miserably. http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/2526/P2180/

Maybe Fluffy was suffering from reverse polarity too, meaning that Dr. Valentine couldn't repeat his results on her unless he could see the labels while performing the muscle testing on her.

It was good for some laughs, at least. Quack Quack.
Anotherone
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 09:36 PM
I know it had nothing to do with Lifewave,,just responding to Captain Al who asked me something...the muscle testing story is not unusual..it is not easy to do reliably..but it can be done when done properly
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 | 09:42 PM
Anotherone, then how do you know when it is done "right?" Is it only right when it gets the "correct" response?
Anotherone
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 | 03:46 AM
The inference in some of responses seems to be..and I may be wrong..that the tester or doctor is looking for a specific response.and this is where most muscle testing fails..obviously, it is easy to overpower the patient and get the results you want if you are trying to sell something..in the office setting there is nothing to sell, just trying to get information to move to the next step to help the patient..that being said, there are (and this is a bit of an oversimplification, but it will illustrate the point) certain points on the body when touched that will always go weak when touched in one of two ways by the tester.if the person doesn't show weakness in either way, the tester should not proceed at that time with more testing because the person based on that response (and that is where the term polarity comes in..again, just using the term used, it may or may not represent to others what the term implies)will not yield accurate information..so this is a pretest and nothing with that is assumed or sold based on that..again, I don't know what people are doing in demonstrations and it does lend itself to parlor tricks..that's just not the way it was intended..that's what happens
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 | 03:07 PM
Joel,

I echo your words of appreciation to Anotherone. It's also a shame that the posts aren't really on topic.

Maybe we should start a new thread or would Anotherone start one?

Cheers,
Dave
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 | 04:46 PM
Anotherone,
I think you are sincere in your belief that your NAET treatment does help your patients but the nature of this method is totally out of sync with current scientific thinking. How do you account for this?

I browsed the NAET website ( http://www.naet.com/ ) and see no evidence that proper scientific procedures have been followed to ensure its efficacy. The page under the heading of RESEARCH contains no research, not even any mention of the year of double blind clinical tests you mentioned. There are however plenty of testimonials (written by practitioners no less) under ABOUT US.

The inventor of NAET, Devi S. Nambudripad, is not a real doctor, just a chiropractor, acupuncturist, kinesiologist, and registered nurse. Her story of the discovery of this technique is "bizarre" according to Stephen Barrett, MD (a real doctor of medicine) and operator of Quackwatch and Chirobase ( http://www.chirobase.org/index.html ) a skeptical site about chiropractic history, theory and practices. Here are some statements supposedly written by Dr. Nambudrispad:

...I could not eat salads, fruits or vegetables, because I was very allergic to vitamin C...I could not eat whole grain products because they contained B complex...I could not eat fruits, honey, or any products made from sugars. These made me extremely tired, because I was very allergic to sugar...I could not drink or eat milk or milk products, because I was very allergic to calcium...I was allergic to all types of beans, including soybeans, they gave me severe joint pains...spices gave me arthritis of all the small joints.

She then claims she ate a diet of nothing but rice and broccoli for three years as part of her way to eliminate allergies. Dr. Barrett responds in his article ( http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/naet.html ) about NAET:

I have no way to determine what Nambudripad experienced, but I can say that her story not believable.

Allergies occur to proteins, not to vitamins, minerals, or sugars. It is possible to be allergic to eggs, fish, and or milk, but the claim that she was allergic to vitamins A, C and B-complex (a total of 10 out of the body's 13 vitamins!), calcium, and sugars is absurd.

A diet consisting of rice and broccoli would contain no vitamin B12 and inadequate amounts of iron, protein, and several other nutrients. Curiously, it would be very high in vitamin C and high in vitamin A, both of which Nambudripad says she was allergic to.

The article goes on to give a brief explanation of Nambudripad's ludicrous technique for determining a person's allergies and how to eliminate them. It then concludes with these interesting comments:

NAET clashes with the concepts of anatomy, physiology, pathology, physics, and allergy accepted by the scientific community. The story of its "discovery" is highly implausible. Its core diagnostic approach -- muscle testing for "allergies" -- is senseless and is virtually certain to diagnose nonexistent problems. Its recommendations for dietary restrictions based on nonexistent food allergies are likely to place the patient at great risk for nutrient deficiency, and, in the case of children, at risk for social problems and the development of eating disorders. I believe that practitioners who use NAET have such poor judgment that they should not be permitted to remain licensed. If you encounter a practitioner who relies on the strategies described in this article, please ask the state attorney general to investigate.

After reading this I no longer wonder why NOVA hasn't done a program on NAET. To believe in it we would have to forget everthing we've learned about the human body since the beginning of science.

Anotherone,
I assume you are one of these NAET practitioners. It would appear your muscle testing for allergies needs some serious investigation by independent third parties. Are you legally allowed to give this medical advice to patients?
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 | 05:16 PM
I vote a new thread to talk about NAET.
Anotherone
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 | 08:32 PM
I came on here originally to talk about some experience I had with the Lifewave patches. Even though I am not a real doctor, only a variety of quack (Captain Al) I had a few points to make and that was it. I also added a few points to try to clarify my understanding of the issues of muscle testing and polarity. I have enjoyed the interaction and wish you all well. Even you Captain Al...good luck living in the medical world.. I mean that..I harbor no ill feelings despite your last post..when people from different planets meet there will often be disagreement..I only can smirk a bit as I think of the medical doctors I treat in my practice, those that attend seminars with me and those that refer me patients..those are your people..as for ;me..the decision I made to work the way I do and not join the medical establishment has given me great joy in life as I help my patients...and its not just that I think it works and am sincere, it actually works..its up to others to figure out why..I'm too busy helping people..I am not a researcher..and by the way, the study will be presented after year two is completed..I have seen the videos of the children as they went through the year and seen how they changed (as they often do in my practice)--how will that be explained? don't know..I'll just continue trying to help people the best I can..those who want to rely on "Dr" Barrett for help..good luck to them too..
Anotherone
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 | 03:42 AM
so if you want to do some serious investigation go right ahead..I think you'll be surprised at the results..look forward to it...don't know what medical advice you're referring to..is ..and what kind of Captain are you?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 | 10:07 AM
I apologize if the forum thinks I am going off topic. NAET is sort of related to Lifewave's talk about people with "reverse polarity" and muscle testing so that's why I pursued it. Since Anotherone seems to be leaving us I'll finish up with these comments:

I was referring to diagnosing allergies. Don't you consider that giving medical advice? Can't you see the potential harm here if your treatment is faulty? By your own admission you are not a doctor but you are quick to dismiss the opinions people such as Stephen Barrett who are. Even if we chose not to listen to people with qualifications like Dr. Barrett, why would we listen to someone else who doesn't have any qualifications at all?

I did do some investigating and I was surprised at the results. I had hoped you would have an explanation, something that would give me a reason for the inconsistencies with established medical knowledge. You say you have all these "cured" patients. Maybe so, but without proper testing how do we know that? You may know it but where is the public's protection from your possible biases? Based on what I read there are serious questions.

It would be interesting to do a follow-up on some of your patients to see how they are getting along. It would also be interesting to know if they really had a problem to begin with. Another thing that makes it suspect is the fact that studies are being done AFTER the treatment has been made available to the public! Shouldn't that be done before? Sounds a lot like Lifewave to me. If your treatment really is legitimate it should easily be proveable. The fact that this has not been done even though it has been "around for 30 years" makes me skeptical. Is that unreasonable?
Anotherone
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 | 01:30 PM
another non Lifewave comment: If I said I wasn't a doctor, I apologize for being misleading..don't recall saying that..so let's just cut to the bottom line..there are three basic ways to treat allergies that I can think of..medication, shots and NAET..how about this..you go wherever you want and let others do the same..if the marketplace says there are no results than so be it..certainly, in terms of side effects the shots and medicine have problems,,Naet at its worse does nothing..no side effects there..now as to studies..I'll drag up the Naet studies from the journals right after you give me the double blind references on the shots,,how's that?..that will save me the time and trouble..now as to the poor people being mishandled with their allergies..who do you think comes for treatment? people who are trying ;me first or those fed up with either the lack of results or don't want to deal with injections or medication..yes, that's what I thought..you have a right to be skeptical..I too am..I only began using it after a trial in my own office even though others had done their's first..'let's just agree to put the mainstream through the same ringer you would like to ring the alternative with..this isn't a little Lifewave demonstration here..and Nambudripad is a MD liscenced in the United States for what that's worth to you...
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 | 02:17 PM
On a personal note (for whatever little it's worth), I went through a period of my life when I experienced severe allergy symptoms, so severe during one several month period that I could barely attend business meetings, which began to REALLY interfere. I sought diagnosis/help from my HMO which performed scratch testing on me and told me that I was highly allergic to a number of substances, and offered me allergy shots and I forget what other treatment options.

After considering the options, and loathing the idea of people injecting substances into me that would screw with my body chemistry, I chose to do nothing. The result: My allergies symptoms subsided and eventually went away. I haven't been bothered in 15 years.

If I had had a different view of the world and chosen differently, I might have decided to try and then sworn that LifeWave patches made my allergies go away, or NAET treatment, or drinking yak's blood, or having Bozo the Clown smack me upside the head to readjust my resonant frequencies, or whatever. No doubt, the person administering the treatment would have been genuinely glad to have helped yet another person who, for whatever reason, had sought alternative treatment.

My point is that bodily symptoms come and go, all by themselves, for whatever reasons. That's what makes humans so susceptible to the classic fallacy of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" for things medical, and why testimonials are useless.

It's also why on the rare occasions in my life when I have seen a doctor, if he gave me a prescription but couldn't give me a rational explanation as to what he was prescribing and why, I have deposited his stupid piece of paper in the trash can on my way out.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 | 06:47 PM
Anotherone

"I'll drag up the Naet studies from the journals right after you give me the double blind references on the shots,,how's that?.."

Seems to me that if there are genuine studies in widely accepted scientific journals, you would be more than willing to post the details.

I presume the journals you speak of, if any are real, are along the lines of "NAET World" and "Alternative Allergy Treatments They Don't Want You to Know About".

It certainly has been interesting to read your opinion of LifeWave patches.

"...for my opinion,,I don;t think the patches are a real thing..I've done some testing in my office..."

"...as you know,(Cranky Media Guy)I basically agree with you on Lifewave..."

As for the "treatments" you provide to your "patients", can anyone take up this line of work and put out their shingle?

"I only began using it after a trial in my own office even though others had done their's first..."

So it's a DIY kind of treatment?

You have come across as a pretty decent person. It would be a shame to start a new thread and perhaps shatter some of your fixed ideas about NAET.

Mind you, in all fairness, you might just end up proving to this little gaggle of skeptics that you have indeed found a "miracle".

Cheers,
Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 | 08:29 PM
OK guys I know that Razela, at least, would like to take the duscussion about NAET over to a new thread.

In the abscence of anyone else doing it, here it is:

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/5669/

See you there (Razela, hint).

Cheers,
Dave
Anotherone
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 | 06:37 PM
may be good at what I do, but can't figure out how to post on the new thread, which I am responding to with trepidation (if I can figure out how)...always willing to admit what I don't know
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 | 06:55 PM
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/5669/

Then click on Post Reply at top or bottom of page.

Cheers,
Dave
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 | 09:59 PM
Anotherone, you might have to create a new user-name since it's on the new forum. There should be a sign-up button near the top (I think).
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 | 07:41 AM
Razela,

Anotherone can use the same username to log in, just like you did when you posted there recently.

Looking forward to Anotherone's thoughts on NAET.

Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 | 05:34 PM
I guess Anotherone's posts about NAET took us of topic for a while.

I wonder how David Schmidt is doing selling patches at Curves meetings?

I guess the monthly CA.office rent that seemed so reasonable a while back is feeling a bit pricey about now.

Not to worry, anyone who can barefacedly lie without blushing will no doubt continue to sell a few patches for a while longer yet.

Simply amazing!
Nanoman
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 12:10 AM
Happy Birthday Lifewave - 3 years and still going strong!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 01:12 AM
Lifewave: Over 5 million not cured of anything.
Nanoman
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 08:23 AM
Lifewave is not a cure for disease. It is far better than harmful drugs that Doctor's prescribe in your scientific mind!! Cheers!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 11:15 AM
Three years and still haven't seen those studies you promised!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 01:56 PM
"Lifewave is not a cure for disease."

So, does it have one of those labels on it that says, "Not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease" on it like all the quack stuff sold on TV?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 04:22 PM
Nanoman

"Happy Birthday Lifewave - 3 years and still going strong!"

It's interesting how little activity this thread has these days. You pop along to remind us that it's 2 years, 3 years etc.

"Going strong".

What does that mean exactly?

David Schmidt trying to sell patches at Curves meetings doesn't quite live up to the California high flyer reputation he thought he was building when he left his wife and children behind in Georgia.

It actually sounds rather sad, except for the fact that I can have no sympathy for his predicament.

The bottom line is that David Schmidt is still JUST another con man running a SCAM.

They really are ten a penny, as we have seen more and more through the hoax forum.

"Lifewave is not a cure for disease."

It is not ANYTHING at all.

Yet, there are still people buying the "product".

Buying into the dream of something better despite those nasty skeptics on the Hoax Forum!
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 | 06:51 PM
It's "going strong?" More like in its death throes.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 | 06:27 PM
LIFEWAVE DEATH SPIRAL
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 | 06:48 PM
Joel,

Always a pleasure to read your posts.

Perhaps the figures predict that ANOTHER new product is about to be unleashed from the science lab at LifeWave central.

I wait with baited breath to see if David Schmidt can once again prove to me that punters really CAN be that stupid.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 | 05:24 PM
More changes to the LifeWave website:

http://www.lifewave.com/leadership.asp

"David
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