MOH Forum: LifeWave Energy Patches

LifeWave Energy Patches

Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005

Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!

Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments

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Cranky Media Guy Member	Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 \| 03:31 PM Anotherone, you seem like a decent, intelligent, well-meaning guy to me, so I promise that I'm not trying to pick on you. I do think, however, that you're employing a type of false logic here that those of us who have been active on this thread have seen several times before. I don't think that anyone who has paid any attention at all would argue that the "conventional" medical world hasn't made mistakes from time to time, including the occasional BIG mistake. That, however, does NOT prove that "alternative" medicine is right about anything. What provable successes can "alternative" medicine point to? What disease has it ever cured? Don't confuse the pharmaceutical industry with medical SCIENCE. They are not the same thing. There is certainly room for criticism of the pharmaceutical industry AND medical science, but the "state of the art" isn't advanced via belief in scientifically unsupportable things like "programmable water." Saying "A doesn't work, so B must be true" isn't logical when it comes to complex issues.
Anotherone	Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 \| 05:51 AM I understand where you are coming from and appreciate your comments. There are two problems. One, is there is little to no money ever to support studies in the alternative world. Who is funding them? No one. For example, and this is within the medical world. There is a doctor in Fla, a neurosurgeon, doing incredible things with glutathione and Parkinsons. We have duplicated his results here. No one knows about this because glutatione (and this was why I was interested in Lifewave in the first place)is not patentable. Its cheap. There's nothing financial in it for anyone to run a "real study". The second problem and I know some will doubt this (not saying you or anyone, but I know this for fact) is people are afraid to come out with alternatives that work. There is a fear of being slammed by the big boys. Whether this fear is warranted, who knows. But it is there, nonetheless. All that being said, I will let you in on one thing to keep an eye on. I recently came back from Cal. They actually got some money to run a University run double blind, etc. study on the use of a very alternative technique and autism. They just finished year one. The treatment group had astounding success--23 of 30 children were mainstreamed in the classroom after once a week treatments over 50 weeks. I saw the videos of 4 or 5 of the kids and read the results. Now I don't think this will revulotionize anything, because the technique is too hard for people to believe, but many will be helped. In desparation, I see for myself, people try things. Anyway, I look forward to the publication after year 2, but when people see how this was done, those that have any open mind at all, well, it will be something! Thanks for your comments.
Joel Member	Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 \| 11:56 AM Anotherone, wrote,
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 \| 03:29 PM Anotherone said: "I understand where you are coming from and appreciate your comments. There are two problems. One, is there is little to no money ever to support studies in the alternative world. Who is funding them?" How about using money from investors? On the one hand, we hear constantly from LifeWave supporters about how well the company is doing as "proof" that what it sells is legitimate. On the other hand, whenever the question of testing comes up, we're told that there's no money for it. If the company is thriving, where's the money going? If the company has no money, then supporters should be honest about that and stop saying everything is fine. I mean, little patches containing molasses and glycerine can't possibly be expensive to produce. From the outside looking in, the profit margin looks quite large. Given that, if these things are legit, it shouldn't be hard to find people willing to invest in the company. The company should be swimming in money. Why screw around with multi-level marketing when there would be millions, perhaps even BILLIONS, of dollars available from investors wanting to get in on the ground floor of a medical breakthrough? Do I really need to say that my suspicion is that the patches are fake and investors aren't sought because that would invite close scrutiny which would bring the enterprise down quickly?
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 \| 11:11 PM "Acupressure is based on the belief that energy flows through the human body in specific patterns,..." Oh dear, now it's just a belief? I thought the whole LifeWave business was based on the human body having energy flows, electromagnetic fields etc. as a matter of fact? http://www.lifewave.com/acupressure.asp By the way, as it's been a while, I didn't notice Schmidt has brought out yet another website! Is this version 4, 5? I've lost count.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 \| 11:14 PM http://www.lifewave.com/testimonials.asp Is it just me or does the girl look fatter in the week 3 picture than the week 2 picture?
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 01:10 AM "Acupressure is based on the belief that energy flows through the human body in specific patterns,..." That may mark the first time the LifeWave website was honest.
Anotherone	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 05:12 AM If anyone feels like answering, is the idea that energy flows through the body in specific patterns which is what acupuncture is based on a dubious point for those here? AS to the patent idea, if that's so and I have no reason to doubt, I don't know why the people in Fla haven't moved to patent the use of glutathione, maybe they have ,, fyi, I am talking here about gluatathione injections, not patches..I know it takes time. For Lifewave to do it in any form, well, I guess they may doubt they can stand the rigors of investigation..or just aren't interested..although that would seem unlikely, given the upside financially
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 10:39 AM Anotherone in USA "If anyone feels like answering,..." You'll never have a problem with that here! "...is the idea that energy flows through the body in specific patterns which is what acupuncture is based on a dubious point for those here?" As you correctly pointed out, it's an idea, a belief that there are energy flow patterns. "I am talking here about gluatathione injections, not patches..I know it takes time. For Lifewave to do it in any form, well, I guess they may doubt they can stand the rigors of investigation..or just aren't interested..although that would seem unlikely, given the upside financially." To continue to flog a dead horse, and I have become very weary of the merry go round of "new" posters who cannot understand why we skeptics won't let go of this scam, David Schmidt claims his patches are "programmed" to "talk" to your body. When I have explained the LifeWave patch idea to my friends and colleagues, I have always received the same incredulous look followed by loud laughter! "You're joking", is the usual reply. The problem is, there are people who do believe in the scam. The new crowd of LifeWavers have yet another website to look at with the weight control product center stage. They don't have knowledge of all the previous websites. The wording has changed dramatically over the past years. Much of the ridiculous language has disappeared over time, but the basics of the non-transdermal patch remain. "Nothing enters the body" is still the bold claim. The evidence to support the action of the patches in NON-EXISTANT. Yes, there ARE "studies" but each and every one of them is fatally flawed and cannot stand up to even the simplest Science 101 scrutiny. LifeWave, in the form of David Schmidt, with his two year business degree and NO scientific qualifications, has always been interested in one thing and one thing only. THE MONEY. It's all about the money and always will be.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 06:06 PM Anotherone in USA Here's an interesting web site targeting people using Quack "Electrodiagnostic" Devices as reported by Stephen Barrett, M.D. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/electro.html Enjoy
Anotherone	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 08:29 PM I'm sure everyone has their special people in life..Barrett is one of mine...I can't look at it because I know who he is and what he is about..he has caused many people much harm and wouldn't want to be him when reckoning comes...there are some things you just shouldn't do for money. I know I am not always right, but here I'm pretty certain, but thanks for the thought.
Anotherone	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 08:34 PM For what its worth..there is an interesting study mentioned I believe in the book The Elegant Universe or perhaps in Hyperspace, both written by physicists who I think we all can agree are above repute..anyway, a photon is fired through a curtain and hits a lead shield behind it..it stops there..if however, someone is watching this happen, that is observing, the action of the photon changes everytime in the same way, it rebounds back off the back, through the curtain..why do I mention this, besides what to me is obvioius fascintation with its implications..I have seen too much to ever assume anything can or can't be done...(not talking about patches, just general)..if anyway has seen this and corrects my details, thanks.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 09:37 PM Anotherone in USA "...(not talking about patches, just general).." But the implication is as loud as a class 5 hurricane and just as subtle. Many, many posters have given a wealth of information about the world around us. Extremely good Discovery Channel fodder. What any of it has to do with the scam artist "Dr" David Schmidt, and his "amazing" discovery, has yet to be established. Schmidt and his company illustrate the "shapeshifter" concept from sci-fi. From the beginning, Schmidt has kept his ear to the ground and modified the scam in order to appeal to the most potential customers at any moment in time. One month the glutathione product is helping in surgery free facelifts. Another month the same product is helping soldiers fend off radiation and biological warfare. No amount of clever cross referencing can cover up this scam. *
Anotherone	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 09:42 PM well, as I was told a few posts ago, since I'm talking about things in general and not Lifewave specifically, this is not the forum I should be on..my mistake to continue...my last word is that I hope the energy put into this hoax is also used for those that are more egregious...all the best, Anotherone
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 \| 10:00 PM Anotherone in USA Your comments about LifeWave LLC and LifeWavenc are most welcome. Airing your frustrations with the medical/pharmaceutical business is not approriate here. I again encourage you to start a new thread where, no doubt, you will find people happy to continue the debate on your chosen obsession. Please post the link to the new thread here. Meanwhile, I guess, we will continue our obsession with the LifeWave scam here. All the very best, Dave *
Paddywhack Member	Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 \| 06:08 AM Again I ask, has anyone actually taken apart the patches to find out exactly what they contain?
Joel Member	Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 \| 10:09 AM Although I have neither taken apart a patch, nor conducted any chemical analysis on the goop within, Lifewave says that their patches are made in accordance with their "patent filing," and their patent application lists ingredients like Grandma molasses and Sioux honey.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 \| 07:01 PM Paddywack The contents of the patches have been discussed at great length on this forum thread. LifeWave has never made any secret of the glucose (brown) and glycerin (white) contents. The testing done to prove the patches are non-transdermal required that the contents be divulged in order to carry out a proper test. http://www.lifewave.com/pdf/Research/Research004-MVAStudy11-23-04.pdf As David Schmidt is such an honest man, we can assume that he gave the company honest information. He has used the company results as the basis of the non-transdermal claim. The claim is also why nobody is very interested in this company from a safety point of view. If poor misguided souls want to wear sticky patches and "feel " effects who cares, right? That seems to be the response from the likes of the FDA etc. Mind you, the authorities do work at a snails pace when it comes to catching up with scammers, so who knows, we may hear from them yet.
Paddywhack Member	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 \| 11:20 AM EDHUK, thanks for your reply, I also note the link deals primarily with the non-transdermal testing of the patches and is not an analysis of the actual contents. Again I hasten to add i'm not a scientist but I know there are lots of various types of glucose and glycerin, some can be digested by the body, others will kill you. Therefore to simply refer to the content of the patches as glucose and glycerin is far to simplistic. So let me re-phrase my original question. Has anyone/organisation conducted a proper biological/chemical breakdown study on the contents of the patches. Thanks in anticipation
EDHUK Member	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 \| 12:26 PM Paddywhack "Again I hasten to add i'm not a scientist but I know there are lots of various types of glucose and glycerin, some can be digested by the body, others will kill you." Essentially, it wouldn't matter what was in the patches as they are non-transdermal, as per LifeWave's MVA report. LifeWave's entire business is based on this single claim. If the patches actually allowed substances to enter the body via the skin i.e. a transdermal patch, they would be in all kinds of trouble. Now, if someone were to chew the patches like a child or a dog, for instance, your concern over contents would be founded. I have stated many times on this thread that David Schmidt is very secure knowing no-one will ever have unwanted side effects or problems of any kind using his range of scam patches. If he ever faces an irrate customer, in a court of law, who claims the patches have "poisoned" their body, Schmidt will be jubilant as he reveals the patches don't actually do anything at all so couldn't possibly harm a flea. Just out of interest, why are you so interested in the actual contents of the patches? The latest LifeWave website, is it version 3,4,5? I've lost count, is retailing directly without the need to be a distributor. You could buy the trial pack and open up the patches yourself. Why not take them to the local school science lab and let them have a go? All the best, Dave *
Interested	Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 \| 10:54 PM Very interesting discussion. Just curious... Has anyone posting actually tried the patches? If so, which ones?
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 \| 02:10 AM Interested said: "Has anyone posting actually tried the patches? If so, which ones?" If you go back about a gazillion pages in this thread, you'll see that my wife tried the original LifeWave patches. No results, good or bad. She felt nothing, despite using them as recommended. If you go to randi.org and use "LifeWave" as a search term, you will find a page on which you can see a photo of the actual patches she used, if that's of any interest to you.
Flanell	Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 \| 05:19 PM I've read this thread with interest. To begin, I have tried many of the Lifewave patches. I can say that the Energy patches worked for me and my spouse. Perhaps it is a placebo effect but they did work on me. We have also used the Pain patches and again, the results were as promised. I also have used the Rest Quiet Sleep patches. It was not always clear to me that these worked but on the nights that I did not use the patches, I did not feel as rested. Quite frankly, people are not really happy with the way traditional medicine is performing as a whole: slice 'em and drug 'em....and then fight with your insurance company if you have one. I for one can say that for whatever reason I did have good results with Lifewave patches as did my husband. By the way, some of you are really spewing venom about this company...in my opinion, you can get your point across without all the nastiness. No one is forcing you to use the product and those of us who do are pretty much looked at by some of you as fools who have been scammed. Personally, I have nothing but good things to say about these little patches. Every story has 3 sides...
EDHUK Member	Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 \| 06:49 PM Flanell How refreshingly honest! Thank you, Dave
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 \| 01:49 AM Flanell said: "Perhaps it is a placebo effect but they did work on me." If you concede that it could be the placebo effect, why do you say that THEY worked on you? If it is, as many of us strongly suspect, merely the placebo effect operating, then the patches wouldn't have to contain ANYTHING, would they? For that matter, you could have taped cigarette butts to your arm. Sorry, while I don't doubt that what you've said reflects your actual experience, anecdotal evidence simply isn't good enough to "prove" that the patches work. Properly-conducted double-blind testing would be necessary to tell us what's going on with them.
Joe1945 Member	Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 \| 10:09 AM Go to the following site and it proves that the Lifewave patches and the 8ight holographic discs really work: http://www.youtube.com/user/8ighttesting These are movies of actual testing done by HealthWalk at http://healthwalk.com/ in Carlsbad, CA. This testing is conclusive.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 \| 12:44 PM Joe1945 Thanks Joe for the interesting video. Could you please explain HOW the video proves anything. Many thanks, Dave
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 \| 02:39 PM Joe1945 OK now I understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9k-SJse4sc&mode=related&search= You somehow believe this "demonstration" proves LifeWave patches work. Would you be interested in some very cheap property? Thanks, Dave
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 \| 06:50 PM Joe1945 You may also find this website interesting. Same effect but claimed to be through "Emotional Freedom Techniques". http://www.emofree.com/Research/rouleaux.htm Dave
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 \| 06:56 PM One More In this slide we see the "dreaded" clumping or Rouleaux. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/VAn308/slide1.htm This is characteristic in horses and they do pretty well galloping around, right?
Joe1945 Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 08:39 AM Healthwalk is one of the most respected scientific treatment centers in the US. They are backing the findings that the disc's work even thought it is not a double blind study, it carries wieght with me.
Captain Al in Vancouver Island, Canada Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 11:09 AM Joel1945, No legitimate scientific organization would make a judgement on a treatment without properly conducted double blind tests. That would be academic suicide. Your statement indicates Healthwalk are a bunch of flakes trying to make a buck with pseudoscientific "miracle" products. Didn't you notice that Dr. Hugh Smith in the video is not even a medical doctor, he's just a PhD. A PhD in what he doesn't say. And what makes you think this in any way legitimizes Lifewave? They don't even mention Lifewave. Are you suggesting that if one form woo woo is "proven" real it automatically makes all the rest real?
Captain Al in Vancouver Island, Canada Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 12:35 PM I thought the pictures of blood cells clumped together in the videos linked by Joel1945: http://www.youtube.com/user/8ighttesting and Dave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9k-SJse4sc&mode=related&search= looked vaguely familiar so I did a little searching. Watch the two links above then read James Randi's July 22, 2005 commentary below: http://www.randi.org/jr/072205meters.html#2 Looks like the same crapola to me. Unfortunately the link to the Quackwatch article at the end does not seem to be active anymore. Once again, what this has to do with Lifewave I'm not sure.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 05:05 PM Joel1945 "Healthwalk is one of the most respected scientific treatment centers in the US. They are backing the findings that the disc's work even thought it is not a double blind study, it carries wieght with me." This statement gives us all the insight we need about your level of due diligence and, dare I point it out, (WIEGHT) your level of interest in accuracy in general. Zero, nada, zilch. Again I ask, are you interested in buying some cheap land? "More Americans believe in psychics than Evolution". So that's why it's so easy for David Schmidt with his 2 year business degree to con so many people. They're all around us. !
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 07:00 PM Captain Al I guess we should all have recognised the "8ight" reference as in 8ight.com, Warren Hanchey no less. Thank you Bob at WWSN for this page: http://www.worldwidescam.info/whvsrl.htm It all makes such wonderful "sense" doesn't it! Cheers, Dave
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 07:03 PM Yep, there it is. http://www.8ight.com/category_s/59.htm Warren Hanchey at his "best". From one scam to another with such grace and ease. Isn't the internet wonderful! D
Joel Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 07:27 PM Joel1945 "Healthwalk is one of the most respected scientific treatment centers in the US.
Joel Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 07:28 PM OK, so Hugh Smith has no scientific credentials and hawks questionable water magnetizers, but at least has been studying
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 08:30 PM Joel Even though the current discussion is off the beaten track a little... "Dr. Smith is the only person on the planet today with access to the Richardson Technologies Microscope allowing observations of live blood cells." I hope he didn't pay too much for this opportunity! He could always just buy one of these: http://www.microscopestore.com/Live_Blood_Cell_Video_System_with_PHASE_CONTRAST_100430.html Or how about this nice Olympus: http://www.olympusmicro.com/primer/java/digitalcameras/olympusdp70/index.html Of course these types of systems are available the world over. As to the actual technique being claimed as the "conclusive proof" that scams like LifeWave patches are for real: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Blood_Analysis So it's not quite cut and dried after all, but then it never is. Meanwhile back at SCAM central, David Schmidt continues to make money from poor smucks who are willing to believe that psychics are for real and evolution is just some made up junk! For all you biologists out there, here's a link from the wikipedia article claiming that variations in erythrocytes (and leukocytes) may be quite normal after all. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=1932557 Now, why can't life just be simple like David Schmidt wants it to be... "The patches work because I say they work". Simple. ^
Joel Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 08:41 PM Yes, the discussion of Healthwalk is rather off topic. Whether Dr. Hugh Smith is a real doctor or whether his most relevant education is a B.A. in ancient Tibetan poetry, his website cannot possible "prove[] that the Lifewave patches . . . really work" as asserted by Joel945 because Hugh Smith's website does not even mention the scam Lifewave patches, nor molasses and glycerin patches in general.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 \| 08:42 PM Joe1945 Sorry to throw another bucket of cold water over your "discovery" but.... http://www.normanallan.com/Med/blood.html "For instance, almost everyone puts undue emphasis on the fact that red cells clump together in coin-like stacks (or rouleaux formation) and treat this as pathological. In fact RBCs clump together in rouleaux stacks wherever space allows them to. They do this, actually, to reduce the viscosity of the blood and for the protection that the red cells receive by traveling in these train-like processions. This is a normal function of blood and, furthermore, its extent cannot be easily quantified with live-blood work. (This is because we can not calculate exactly how thick the sample is at any point.) The extent of this clumping, this rouleaux formation can however be easily measured in standard blood work as sedimentation rate, or SED rate. (If rouleaux formation is excessive the blood sediments settle more quickly.) SED rate is a general indicator of inflammation. We generally expect the SED rate to be elevated in inflammatory conditions such as arthritis. But SED rate is a very general and imprecise measure, and medicine pays little attention to it nowdays." "...its extent cannot be easily quantified with live-blood work." Are you beginning to see the light now Joe? Or are you still in darkfield illumination mode? ?
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 \| 02:28 AM
EDHUK Member	Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 \| 11:51 AM The days flash by and "Dr." David Schmidt, businessman and scam artist, continues to ply his wares to the public. Meanwhile, "new" posters like Joe1945 come and go with their amazing revelations and statements such as "This testing is conclusive." with nothing to back up such obsurdities. A few posts from the real world and Joe1945, and the like, are left trying to come up with a stinging reply that will put us in our place. "Healthwalk is one of the most respected scientific treatment centers in the US. They are backing the findings that the disc's work even thought it is not a double blind study, it carries wieght with me." Well that certainly hurts! For those first time readers out there this hoax forum thread on LifeWave patches has become very long. Why? Could it be that a few people are not willing to stand by while the likes of Joe1945 and their "carries wieght with me" philosophy, continue to promote such craziness? Read this thread, all of it if you have the time and inclination, and you will find everything you need to come to an informed conclusion. Perhaps your personal life "scale" will be calibrated rather differently to Joe1945 and you will get the impression that David Schmidt is a bare faced liar and scam artist of the worst kind. A man who is willing to give the promise of hope to people in many areas of their lives knowing all along it's all about the money; the scam. Read on. #
Paddywhack Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 11:37 AM Hi Dave, Thanks for your response, and sorry about the delay in getting back to you. I used the glycerine example only as an analogy to show that there are lots of different types of glycerine out there with lots of different uses, not suggesting they in some way enter the body <<Just out of interest, why are you so interested in the actual contents of the patches?>> Like i've said before, I used the patches and had positive results and i'm curious to know exactly what they contain. Also it would make it easier to understand how they work, knowing what is inside. By the same token it would be much more credible to rubbish the claims by knowing what exactly is contained in the patches. Therefore I pose my question once again. Has anyone/organisation conducted a proper biological/chemical breakdown study on the contents of the patches?
Joel Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 04:05 PM Paddywhack, "Has anyone/organisation conducted a proper biological/chemical breakdown study on the contents of the patches?" A: Not that anyone here is aware. However, LifeWave asserts that all of their patches are made "in accordance with our patent filing." You can read LifeWave's comical patent application by going to the Patent and Trademark's Office search page at http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html and typing 20040057983 into the query box. There you can read Schmidt's conjectures about humans acting as giant living thermocouples, his whacky guesses about swirling human energy vortices, and his examples of how patches that contain Sioux honey and Grandma molasses produce instant increases in strength and energy, and decrease arthritis pain and menstrual cramps, by bending human energy fields to the right and to the left. Enjoy. It's very funny indeed, if you've ever taken any physics or chemistry courses.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 06:29 PM Paddywhack "Like i've said before, I used the patches and had positive results and i'm curious to know exactly what they contain. Also it would make it easier to understand how they work, knowing what is inside." I'm still not sure how knowing what's inside will make any difference, but LifeWave has stated that they contain glucose (brown patch) and glycerin (white patch). The patches are claimed to be NON-TRANSDERMAL therefore nothing enters the body. The patches could contain cyanide or anthrax but because they are non-transdermal it wouldn't actually matter. Any "effect" you have felt is a placebo effect. The placebo effect has been well documented here in this thread. It can be very powerful indeed and has been scientifically measured. Now that you know that the patches contain glucose and glycerin, how does that help you explain the SCAM? Cheers, Dave *
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 06:40 PM Joel, Thanks for the link to the Patent. I've looked at it before but time has passed and I had forgotten how completely insane it really is! " If there is indeed a magnetic energy field that extends from the surface of a human body.." What's that? David Schmidt, our self titled "Dr." is in print in his own Patent application questioning the existance of the very lunacy he bases his scam on. "IF" IF David Scmidt had one shred of human decency he would have quit this scam long ago and started paying back the money he has taken from his gullible customers. IF.
Anotherone	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 08:38 PM He may be producing a scam and unethical, etc..that does not mean that there is no magnetic energy field around the body..there is indeed an electromagnetic field surrounding the body..science 101
EDHUK Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 08:56 PM Anotherone "" If there is indeed a magnetic energy field that extends from the surface of a human body.." DAVID SCHMIDT'S words, not mine. ?
Anotherone	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 09:21 PM well, the fact that he doesn't know for certain that it is there does not bode well for him..although based on what you all have been saying,that should not be surprising//just wanted to set the record straight for anyone doubting its existence. thanks.
Razela in Chicago, IL Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 09:22 PM "there is indeed an electromagnetic field surrounding the body..science 101" No offense Anotherone, but what kind of science classes were you taking?
Joel Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 10:15 PM Let's remember that the "magnetic field" that David Schmidt is basing his theories on is his guessing that the human body acts as a giant thermocouple. His reasoning is: There are trace metals in the body, and the body's extremities are colder than its core, hence voila the body MIGHT act as a living, breathing, giant thermocouple ("thermomagnetic field"), and DS MIGHT be able to affect that "thermomagnetic field" to astounding benefit for humans by holding honey and molasses and similar substances near it in a sealed plastic band-aid like patch. THAT "magnetic field" is a figment of DS's imagination. DS is NOT talking about the minute electrical and magnetic fields that, at a level that is both atomic and completely inconsequential for purposes of this discussion, exist for all atoms and molecules, and which are neither in dispute nor the basis for DS's whacky theories.
Joel Member	Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 \| 10:30 PM . . . and even if there WERE a human "thermomagnetic field" as Schmidt guesses, David Schmidt is, as admitted in his patent application, only guessing at how molasses and sugar and glycerin might affect that field, and only guessing at what effects that might have on the body. All of his guesses are complete lunacy, contradicting known science. Layer upon layer of lunacy. That's how Schmidt arrives the "science" that today Dr. Steven Haltiwanger, the disgraced psychiatrist who tried to salvage what was left of his career by reinventing himself as a nutritionist, spouts without question or doubt as being the "science" behind the patches.
Anotherone	Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 \| 04:21 AM no offense taken, Razela..I am referring to the very real electromagnetic field which is currently being studied at a few universties with what I believe are called squid machines (forget what it stands for or even if that's the real name) Based on the fact that we are electrical (eeg, ekg measurements for example) and that surrounding every electrical current is a magnetic field. Not saying these are particularly strong, just that they are real. See Joel's comment for the difference between what DS proposes and what I am talking about. Whether or not there is any therapeutic potential value to the real one I am talking about is another subject which as I have already been told is not an appropriate subject for this board.
Razela in Chicago, IL Member	Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 \| 07:46 PM Anotherone, you may want to start a new thread to talk about the electromagnetic thing, but in the meantime, can you direct me to any websites that offer information on these studies. Which Universities are you referring to?
EDHUK Member	Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 \| 09:19 PM Anotherone, With the greatest of respect, discussions about SQUID and electromagnetic fields etc.tend to give the impression that the main point of this forum is real. I continue to submit that LifeWave patches are nothing more than an elaborate scam designed for the sole purpose of making money out of gullible people. If you are in a position to give us one shred of reliable evidence that David Schmidt is anything other than a con artist, please do. Thanks, Dave
Anotherone	Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 \| 09:46 PM I have been corrected in the past and therefore now include in any response that what I am saying in no way supports Lifewave or its theories. However, if there is something stated that I believe and/or know to be inaccurate I have commented. I have tried Lifewave in a clinical setting and been disappointed in the results and therefore have stopped using them. I did give them a chance out of curiosity. I have seen too many things work that I didn't think should or could so if there is no harm, I often try things for their potential benefit. I saw none in this case. ..for those interested I believe Stanford was one University testing with Squid apparatus...more can be found, if I remember right in The Body Electric and a second book which I forget now, but will add when I remember. Its late out here..long day,,etc.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 \| 04:45 PM Anotherone "... what I am saying in no way supports Lifewave or its theories." I hear you. Your words also echo the fact that David Schmidt has based his entire product line, if you can call it that, on theories. Schmidt is a businessman with a two year degree claiming to have invented the greatest technology this side of the start of life itself on this planet. He has NO facts to back up one single claim he has ever made. He treats us to web site after web site as he massages his explanations over time. Schmidt has written a work of science fiction and people are lining up for the book signing. Go figure! Dave
Joel Member	Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 \| 06:37 PM Anotherone wrote, "I have tried Lifewave in a clinical setting and been disappointed in the results and therefore have stopped using them." Anotherone, please let us know the details of your testing, and the results (e.g., number of patients; control group; test methodology including protocol, test equipment used, and was it double blind; numerical results including means and standard deviations; sponsorship; etc.) Also, please let us know your own training and background. Lifewave has never offered anything close to credible studies. Yours may be the closest thing to any attempt to test the patches objectively, honestly, with a sufficient sample group. Thanks.
EDHUK Member	Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 \| 06:58 PM Joel Since David Schmidt has changed his websites so often and the purpose of the patches, it must be quite a challenge to know what you are supposed to be testing for! Some months ago we were treated to the spectacle of the "surgical free" facelift patches (with face cream!) http://odeo.com/audio/10668093/view The same patches then turn up on the military website. Now they protect you from radiation, biological agents and noise! http://www.lifewavenc.com/ Check out the DefenseWave product and you will find, if you read the original wording and claims, that the text has been CHANGED! Now there's a surprise. Many of the original claims for the patch are gone and been replaced by a general descrition of the claims made for glutathione. However, look at the PDF of the brochure and you will still see the claims made from months ago in print. http://www.lifewavenc.com/pdf/DWBrochure.pdf I wonder how one would go about testing such chameleon like patches?
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