The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 | 04:44 PM
Frank in PA

As well as other skeptics here, I believe David Schmidt to be a con man pure and simple. Your comment, like comments from athletes who have claimed impressive increases in energy, is purely anecdotal.

Skeptics have continued to ask for reputable studies on the efficacy, or otherwise, of LifeWave products. These studies have not been conducted for the simplest of explanations. The "products" are a scam and, as such, guaranteed to fail any creditable testing.

The self titled "Dr." David Schmidt has given us ever fancier web sites listing "studies" with grand sounding titles.

Each of these "studies" fails at the most basic level of science.

Now that you appear to have come to a fork in the road signposted "Redemption This Way", what do you intend to do to really put things right?

?
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 | 04:03 AM
A new claim by Lifewave!

Lifewave claims on its "new video" (http://www.lifewave.com/company.asp, click on "Click Here to Watch the NEW Video!") that its honey-and-molasses patches help restore eyesight (see the testimonial from an unidentified woman, perhaps an actress, claiming that her close vision has improved and that she doesn't need her glasses as much anymore, ostensibly due to wearing Lifewave patches).

Now THIS is something that the AG or the FDA might be interested in.

These nifty patches keep getting more and more powerful everyday, don't they? Now in addition to giving more strength and energy, and stopping snoring, and curing menstrual cramps, and smoothing skin wrinkles, and relieving arthritis, and protecting soldiers against radiation and anthrax, and healing scars, and making you piss out excess amounts of the trace elements that are vital for your body's health, now they fix poor eyesight, too. And all this from a guy who claimed to be a doctor but actually posseses only a 2-year business degree and a proven history of failed patent applications. Imagine what this guy could come up with next if he were to actually take some science courses!

Lifewave also claims in its new video, if I understood the words correctly, that "It's patented." Of course, Lifewave has no patent, so advertising that "It's patented" is another lie by LifeWave. And David Schmidt STILL proclaims that, "We believe strongly in our values of the highest integrity . . . " http://www.lifewave.com/company.asp.

You have to wonder how lying in its advertisements embodies "values of the highest integrity." Perhaps DS meant, "The highest integrity that we at Lifewave are capable of."

All of the potential Lifewave users and distributors out there can probably put as much as stock in what Lifewave is telling them about its products and distributors' earning potential, as they can in LifeWave's representation that, "It's patented." Meaning, Don't believe it for a minute.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 | 05:37 AM
LIFEWAVE'S TRADEMARK APPLICATIONS

Here
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 | 10:06 AM
With all these new patent and trademark applications, how does David Schmidt find the time and energy to keep coming up with new miracle products? He must be wearing those patches.

From the Lifewave website:
"With this unique technology in the hands of our scientists, there's no limit to what the future may hold!"

Is David Schmidt implying he has a staff of scientists doing development work for him? We have been led to believe only David Schmidt (with his 2-year business diploma) is able to understand the science behind Lifewave. If he does have scientists working for him, who are they? What is their background? Do they publish in scientific journals? Why doesn't the video show them working in the lab? They must have peers in similar fields who can vouch for the validity of this product. If so, why don't we hear from them?

I suppose now that Lifewave claims to be able to improve impaired vision we will have a new batch of believers posting here saying it's true even though no one mentioned it before the claim.

"Our company follows the age-old philosophy of The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Does that mean I should try to sell David Schmidt a bridge or some swamp land in Florida?
watcher of idiots
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 05:38 AM
This thread is over 2 years old....... 2 YEARS !!! ... and LifeWave is still going strong..... you people are ridiculous.....what i have noticed is that many of you are running out of steam... running out of truly logical explanations of why you think this is a scam.... not that any of you had any logic to begin with..... of coarse ,, my post will give the die hards like EDHUK , Cranky Media Guy , Joel and Captain dumbass, opps,, i mean Al,,, fuel to flap there fingers once again in zealous retribution..... so flap away you idiots... because you truly are idiots..... Like it or not ,, LifeWave is here to stay.... whats so funny is that you ignorant #$%^!! are gonna eat this post up.... its been awhile since anyone has called a spade a spade on here... an idiot for an idiot..... so ,, I'm glad I can offer some very dense minded people a little fuel for there idiotic fire...... fire away. Your all a bunch of retards........... oh... OH.. i hear the fingers flapping now....
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 07:56 AM
<b><i>"2 YEARS !!! ... and LifeWave is still going strong"</i></b>

Two years and still no Waver has been able to learn anything about grammar or punctuation. Why don't you spend one of those huge commission checks on a night school course to finish Grade 12?

Two years and still no mention of Lifewave in any science magazine or TV news broadcast. Very strange for a product that claims it will change the world. It's pretty obvious who the real idiots are.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 08:24 AM
eh, we just ran out of wavers to debate with. I'm sure another will come along soon enough.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 11:23 AM
"... and LifeWave is still going strong"

Based upon feedback we have received from some people, LifeWave is not going as strongly (duping as many people) as they would have if we hadn't been here. Keep up the good fight, folks.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 03:18 PM
watcher of idiots said:

"This thread is over 2 years old....... 2 YEARS !!! ... and LifeWave is still going strong..... you people are ridiculous.....what i have noticed is that many of you are running out of steam... running out of truly logical explanations of why you think this is a scam.... not that any of you had any logic to begin with....."

Over the last two years and 208 pages of this thread, we skeptics have said REPEATEDLY why we are sure LifeWave is a scam. We have given you scientific reasons why your silly little plastic patches CANNOT possibly work the way you claim.

In response, LifeWavers have "explained" that the patches work because....uh, well, because they SAY THEY DO, that's why. NO legitimate science has been presented to support the wild claims of LifeWave. None. Zero.

Let's cut to the chase here, shall we? You know damn well that the patches don't work as claimed. You DON'T CARE about any of that. You DO, on the other hand, care about people buying them from you and are afraid that our efforts here will cut into that.

It's a scam, you know it and you want it to continue. Period. Let's stop pretending that you think they actually work.
Jo
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 05:14 PM
I ordered a trial pack recently and tried the energy patch during a basketball pick up game. I cannot not say they work or not from using the patch only once. While wearing the patch during a basketball game, I did experience my body temperature to be much warmer than normal. My feet were very hot but this could have been due to new ankle straps I was using. I felt like I had a bit more energy during the game.

I still have questions and need to test for myself more.

Could the extra energy be due to the fact that I also took a vitamin shake that day?

Could it be that this was my fourth outing of basketball since a while and I'm gaining more energy from more exercise?

Or, could it be that I believed I was going to have more energy hence causing my body to use more energy? Positive re-enforcement?

I will continue to eval the patch and post my results.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 06:51 PM
Jo in US

Just as Frank in PA , above, gave us his personal opinion about LifeWave, your "evaluation" will be more anecdotal information and, unfortunately, of little use in the quest for the truth behind the LifeWave scam.

We now appear to be entering the "we're still in business therefore it can't be a scam" period.

So, presumably, all companies in business for 2 years or longer must be the real deal, right?

Just keep your scam going for two years or more and that's enough proof of efficacy for certain individuals.

Pitiful? Yes. Hilarious? No. Just a very sad reflection on life in the good old US of A in 2007.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 | 07:05 PM
Jo said:
<b><i>
"My feet were very hot but this could have been due to new ankle straps I was using."

"Could the extra energy be due to the fact that I also took a vitamin shake that day?"

"Could it be that this was my fourth outing of basketball since a while and I'm gaining more energy from more exercise?"

"Or, could it be that I believed I was going to have more energy hence causing my body to use more energy?"
</i></b>

This is precisely why properly designed studies, with hundreds of test subjects, conducted by qualified independent researchers with no financial stake in the outcome are used to determine the efficacy of new medical products. They eliminate all uncertainties and biases. You wouldn't try this with a new cancer treatment would you?

Normally these things are done BEFORE a product is marketed to the public. Instead, Lifewave just started selling them from day one. How did they know their "theory of operation" worked as planned? Where is the record of the first person who put them on in the lab? Of course there wasn't any "first person" since it's all a scam but I hope you see my point.

Don't waste your time and money. It's their responsibility to prove their claims, not yours. The fact they haven't tried indicates how confident they are in their product. Will you get a refund if you're not satisfied?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 02:02 AM
EDHUK said:

"We now appear to be entering the 'we're still in business therefore it can't be a scam' period.

"So, presumably, all companies in business for 2 years or longer must be the real deal, right?

"Just keep your scam going for two years or more and that's enough proof of efficacy for certain individuals."

Yup, that appears to be where we are. If you don't have any facts to back up your claims, rely on your longevity as "proof."

To anyone who thinks that LifeWave having existed for a few years now "proves" that it isn't a scam, I have one word for you: Enron.

Enron was the 6th largest company in America and was a complete scam from top to bottom. Neither size nor longevity PROVES that a company is legitimate, unfortunately.
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 02:17 AM
More silly patches from LifeWave:

"LifeWave LLC has ventured full force into the anti-aging arena with the LifeWave YAGE Patches. In addition to the powerful and versatile LifeWave Glutathione Nanotechnology that literally is thousands of percent more effective than any other means of raising the serum glutathione levels, the LifeWave YAGE patches include the former X-Patch which now has been revealed as a Carnosine Patch." http://quikonnex.com/channel/archive/519

"As was announced during a May representative training call, LifeWave Patch nanotechnology will before the fall of 2007 adding to its LifeWave Patch Energy Enhancer, LifeWave IceWave Pain Reducing/Eliminating Patch, LifeWave Patch Glutathione enhancement, and the LifeWave Patch RestQuiet sleep enhancer/stop snoring, a new LifeWave Patch system to aid in weight loss and appetite supression." http://quikonnex.com/channel/item/27174
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 02:40 AM
watcher of idiots wrote:

"2 YEARS !!! . . . LifeWave is still going strong..... Like it or not ,, LifeWave is here to stay."

LifeWave is not going nearly as strong, or growing as fast, as the Nigerian 419 scam aka the Advance Fee Scam which "
..
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 04:31 AM
Joel.. your about as big of an idiot as our beloved Dr. Heath..... dear Lord do i feel sorry for your momma's.....
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 07:08 PM
.. (page 209) AKA YUP, (page 199) AKA the >>>>>>> (page 198)AKA watcher... (page198) etc. etc.

Here's a thought. You could register ONE name, contribute in an adult, intelligent, rational manner, and be able to do it using one IP address.

Give it a try. Do you have anything to contribute other than your childish petty and completely worthless comments?
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 | 11:28 PM
Hey Watcher (and Teddy G. Allen and Suzanne McHale), if the Defensewave patch (formerly the surgery-free facelift patch) actually protects against biological agents as advertised on the lifewavenc.com website, you could make a huge score by selling those patches to the Center for Disease Control to help protect all those people who were potentially exposed to Andrew Speaker's extremely dangerous form of TB.

This is your big opportunity because all the news outlets are working this story, news babes reporting live and all. Fame, glory, and riches await. Time to burst onto the medical scene and become the next Microsoft like David Schmidt kept promising his minions. Carpe Diem.

I can just imagine Teddy Allen walking in and telling the head of the CDC, "Just put these patches on your shoes, see, and they'll protect you against TB, anthrax, malaria, radiation, heavy metal poisoning, hearing loss, you name it. David Schmidt says so. Hey, don't be such a closed-minded moron. Have you tried the patches? Hey, come back. I also have some anti-snoring patches. (Now cupping his hands around his mouth) H A V E Y O U T R I E D T H E P A T C H E S?"

Or maybe you could put on the Defensewave patches and spend some time with Andrew Speaker to demonstrate how effective the patches are. I would pay to see that.
Jeff
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 10:38 AM
So, do you all think someone in grave pain can "think" themselves out of it? Say 200 out of 200 people? Pain relief of up to 100 % within 10 seconds? And as little as 55% of pain relief. I suppose this too is a scam?
Jeff
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 10:57 AM
The skin patch by the way is a glutathione booster.
-Blood tests; will measure huge increases in Glutathione production from wearing the patch

-Urine tests; will measure the increase in heavy metal excretion when wearing the patch

-Surface electromyography; will show large increases in nervous system activity

Why would the military need this?

What happens if Glutathione levels are low?
Glutathione deficiency contributes to oxidative stress, which plays a key role in aging and the worsening of many diseases including Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, liver disease, cystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia, HIV, AIDS, cancer, heart attack, and diabetes.

Glutathione and Aging
The concentration of glutathione declines with age and in some age-related diseases.

Glutathione (GSH) is a tripeptide. It contains an unusual peptide linkage between the amine group of cysteine and the carboxyl group of the glutamate side chain. Glutathione, an antioxidant, protects cells from toxins such as free radicals.
Glutathione participates in leukotriene synthesis and is a cofactor for the enzyme glutathione peroxidase. It is also important as a hydrophilic molecule that is added to lipophilic toxins and waste in the liver during biotransformation before they can become part of the bile. Glutathione is also needed for the detoxification of methylglyoxal, a toxin produced as a by-product of metabolism. This detoxification reaction is carried out by the glyoxalase system.
Jeff
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 10:59 AM
And some more benefits for the military and the glutathione booster:
Immune System
Immune Depressed individuals have lower GSH levels when fighting disease. Lymphocytes, cells vital for your immune response, depend on GSH for their proper function and replication. Immunology 61: 503-508 1987. Cellular depletion of Glutathione has been implicated as a causative, or contributory factor in many pathologies including Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, cataracts, arteriosclerosis, cystic fibrosis, malnutrition, aging, AIDS and cancer (Bounous et al., 1991). In addition, Glutathione is essential in supporting the immune system, including natural killer cells (Droege et al., 1997) and in the maintenance of T-lymphocytes (Gutman, 1998).

Cancer
GSH plays a role in eliminating many carcinogens as well as maintaining immune function towards providing stronger anti-tumor defenses. Cancer Letters 57: 91-94 1991

Aging Process
It is known that as we age, there is a precipitous drop in GSH levels. Lower Glutathione levels are implicated in many diseases associated with aging, including Cataracts, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's, arteriosclerosis and others. Journal of Clinical Epidemiology 47: 1021-28 1994

Athletes
Strong muscular activity generates oxyradicals leading to muscle fatigue and poorer performance. GSH neutralizes these radicals. Whey proteins promote muscular development. Sports Medicine 21; 213 - 238, 1996. Recent research indicates that propensities toward many degenerative diseases and aging itself are related to the capacity of the cell to robustly recover from oxidative insult. The capacity of a cell to recover from such insult can be determined by measuring the intracellular stores of Glutathione. (Noelle et al., 1981)

Antioxidant Functions
Antioxidants are well documented to play vital roles in health maintenance and disease prevention. GSH is our cell's own major antioxidant. Why not use what is natural? Biochemical Pharmacology 47:2113-2123 1994

Neurological Disease
Low GSH has been demonstrated in nuerodegenerative diseases such as MS (Multiple Sclerosis), ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease), Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's, among others. The Lancel 344: 796-798 1994

Toxins, Pollution, Radiation
GSH detoxifies many pollutants, carcinogens and poisons, including many in fuel exhaust and cigarette smoke. It retards damage from radiation such as seen with loss of the ozone. Annual Review of Biochemistry 52 : 711-780 1983. The liver is the main detoxification organ of the body. In the liver we find very high concentrations of GSH, as it is a major factor in numerous biochemical detoxification pathways. Numerous studies have demonstrated that patients with compromised liver function due to alcohol abuse have significant reduction of GSH in the liver. (Lamestro, 1995)

AIDS
Low Glutathione levels with poor survival in AIDS patients. Much literature has been written demonstrating the role of enhancing GSH levels in AIDS. Proc. National Acad. Science USA 94: 2967-72 1997

All in which the military could benefit from. Eh?
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 02:22 PM
Jeff,

Where are the results of the scientifically conducted studies demonstrating that the Defensewave patches do what the phony "Dr." David Schmidt claims they do? The last I looked, there was not ONE study posted or even cited on Lifewave's website remotely supporting those claims.

There was not even a joke of a study such as the joke of a study conducted by a holistic veterinarian who rejects all known methods of measuring animal pain choosing instead to make up a pain measurement test that she asserts its "logical." In that study of "energy" patches (which she is trying to sell) doubling as horsey pain patches, she justified her made-up horsey pain meter with this logic: "Logic tells us that if the pelvis and tenderness at the corresponding Association or Alarm Point."

She concluded in the last sentence of her "study," "These clients have back of a horse are working more efficiently in capacity and if the horse is not in discomfort, the horse will indeed show increased strength and manifest more energy and stamina."

It appears that Lifewave does not even have a study to back up its claims about Defensewave that even approaches the laughability level of the horsey study.

If there is a real study, please post it somewhere so that we can all review it.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 03:11 PM
Jeff said:

"So, do you all think someone in grave pain can "think" themselves out of it? Say 200 out of 200 people? Pain relief of up to 100 % within 10 seconds? And as little as 55% of pain relief. I suppose this too is a scam?"

And you're getting these "statistics" from where, exactly?

Even if these numbers actually came from scientific testing, "Pain relief of up to 100% within 10 seconds" means exactly nothing as phrased. After all, 0% would be "up to" 100 percent.

Pulling numbers out of your ass proves nothing.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 04:27 PM
Jeff,

Are you as scientific in background as you appear on the surface? Or, are you just doing a cut and paste job from the David Schmidt book of nonsense?

As others have asked, I also ask for verifiable, properly conducted scientific studies.

"So, do you all think someone in grave pain can "think" themselves out of it? Say 200 out of 200 people? Pain relief of up to 100 % within 10 seconds?"

Strictly speaking, the answer is YES. Not very likely, but possible.

I have posted here a long time back the placebo study on pain control in which all participants received pain control via an I/V drip. It was revealed that the drip contained saline only...no pain control. Yet the subjects brains showed changes during PET scans indicating their brains were producing natural pain killers during the test.

So, is it possible...yep.

Looking forward to the studies you will be posting details of, and even though it might be a little premature, it looks like you might turn out to be the very first person to win James Randi's Million Dollars.

Of course that will be based on the information contained in your sales pitch, I mean informational post, being the truth.
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 08:39 PM
I can tell you that on urine testing, wearing the patch does reduce free radicals. Whether this is due to glutathione or not , I can't tell yet. FYI
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 09:42 PM
EDHUK wrote, "Jeff, Are you as scientific in background as you appear on the surface? Or, are you just doing a cut and paste job . . . ?"

Jeff did a cut and paste job. http://www.wellwisdom.com/research_glutathione.php.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 02:11 AM
Harry Benjamin said:

"I can tell you that on urine testing, wearing the patch does reduce free radicals. Whether this is due to glutathione or not , I can't tell yet. FYI"

Two questions, "Harry":

1: What FACTS do you have to back up your contentions?

2: Why did you choose a screen name which is the name of a famous doctor who did some pioneering research on transgenderism?

Didn't think any of us would catch that, did you?
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 06:03 AM
Mr. Cranky Media Guy,
I don't wonder why you doubt this work, I did also. I have done work over the last 26 years with a variety of techniques, most don't work. I am not invovled with the company, but heard about this when a patient of mine mentioned it. I have been involved with using intravenous glutathione for certain neurogenic disorders, with some moderate success. The tesing is basic urine tests which measure free radicals, nothing fancy, its just my preliminary look. I thought the board, which I happened on by accident might be interested. Probably some are and some aren't.
I am not familiar with the name you mention. This is not my real name, as I have learned not to use a real name in these settings-you seem to do the same.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 11:23 AM
Harry Benjamin, if you're a real doctor and you're willing to stick around and answer questions about why you believe that the patches actually do anything (if you believe that), and what (if any) science you believe actually supports the theory of operation of the patches, and what real testing (if any) supports Lifewave's claims of efficacy, I, for one, would be very interested.

So CMG asked, what FACTS you have to back up your contentions. Let's start with that one. "Basic urine tests which measure free radicals, nothing fancy" is too vague to be of any use or to carry any credibility.
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 12:08 PM
A lab called Oxidata testing has a urine test which measure free radicals. As you are probably aware, glutathione is a wonderful antioxidant (although most people don't know, too much is not good either as free radicals have a role too). All I have done so far is do pre and post free radical testing with the patches and seen results of declining (significant) free radicals one day post patches. As I said, I was surprised, but desperate. Glutathione, as you may know is ineffective when ingested, so any transdermal modality interested me. The supplier is getting me more at the end of the week, as I need to do it on more people to decide if its worth it to do more investigation or not. That's what I know so far. I'm hoping they work, but not sure at this point. If I see they work, I'll do the next step to try to figure out why or how, but as a clinician, my primary concern is results--I can't not do things because I can't explain them. People would be shocked at how many supposed proven and not understood modaltites are both used and misused in the health and medical fields. Have a good day.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 01:29 PM
Harry Benjamin,

How many people have you tested this on, and what were the numerical results for your test subjects (including the standard deviations)? Did the test subjects drink plenty of water while wearing the patches (as directed by Lifewave), and how did you account for the fact that additional water intake would dilute the content of everything (including free radicals) in their urine? Did you do anything else to control their behavior and environment pre-patch and post-patch? Did you use double blind placebo-controlled testing? Where did you get your volunteers from?

You said you were "desperate." Desperation is a condition that could decrease objectivity. What was making you desperate?

Did you do a formal write-up of the tests? Given the surprising results of honey-and-molasses patches that act as hot and cold packs/ nanotechnology/energy vortex patches on acupuncture points that balance out the flow of energy along meridians/software for the body/tiny cell phones that instruct the correct cells to make more glutathione in the correct amounts, would you say that your results represent a breakthrough in modern science? What, if any, are your plans for more formal testing?

Is there ANY scientific theory that you personally find credible and that supports the proposition that using Lifewave patches results in more glutathione in the body? If so, please explain what that theory is and why you find it to be credible.

Thanks for contributing your experience and expertise.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 03:28 PM
Harry Benjamin, I'll defer to Joel on most of this since he asked such pertinent questions.

"I am not familiar with the name you mention. This is not my real name, as I have learned not to use a real name in these settings-you seem to do the same."

Hmm, no offense, but I find that hard to believe. Your screen name is pretty specific, referring to a famous doctor. Yeah, I guess it's *possible* that you chose it at random, but that seems unlikely to me.

My screen name, on the other hand, is clearly not a proper name and can't be mistaken as one.

Just sayin'.
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 03:34 PM
the test results are on a very general 0-5 scale..the four people I tested were all 4-5 and improved to 0-1 or 2 in one case after the one day. I have used this urine system to check vitamins for a number of years and not seen this dramatic change (only with the intravenous glutathione)
I gave no water instructions and don't really think that it is significant except in very extreme situations--this is not a study, I am in a private clinic and am just looking at preliminary results ..as I said, this is all I have at the moment..my purpose was to share that..I will tell more if and when I know more.
I am desparate to help my patients (good question) not to use patches..I am not talking about any breathroughs or looking at that..in fact, if these work, which I am skeptical about, it wouldn't be the first item of this nature to have effect..I don't know why they think it works, but I have seen much over the years that is far less likely than this (which is why I was open to try in the first place) I don't plan on looking more into their theory until I see these basic free radical results on a larger sample. If that proves to be true, my next step would be to see how it affects the patient indicators/symptoms..if there is a result there then I would interested to delve more into the theory,etc..although I have some people who work with me who would probably do that as I am full time with patients (which I was I took this profession)
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 03:42 PM
not that it matters, but happens to be middle names of two of my children..was unaware of the other connection.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 04:41 PM
Harry Benjamin,

Thank you so much for giving us your insight. Much appreciated.

LifeWave has built it's entire company reputation on a claim that David Schmidt (non scientist) has invented a patch system that is NON-TRANSDERMAL. Nothing enters the body.

LifeWave has changed its explanation, from time to time,of how it achieves effects by using the patches.

From your point of view, I imagine a glutathione patch allowing a controlled release of the substance could be useful.

However, from the point of view of a company that has based its existence on a NON transdermal patch LifeWave would be in trouble.

They are only able to peddle their SCAM product because it is non transdermal. Therefore cannot do anything harmful like putting substances into your body without your knowledge.

This thread contains just about every argument from both sides of the fence. Indeed, I would suggest that any future prosecutor would be well served by reading every page before getting down to the job of putting Schmidt where he so richly deserves to be.

I look forward to your future posts and supporting evidence.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 07:53 PM
Harry Benjamin,

Thank you for the input. I look forward to your further investigation and reports.

A test sample of 4 persons under non-controlled conditions, and using a $15 mail order test kit (http://www.naturalchoicesforyou.com/site/680805/product/KIt-3) whose results read out as 0-5 rather than numbers that one can meaningfully understand and verify such as molal concentrations, is not much to base a conclusion on.

I also Googled the Oxidata test that you referred to. I only found references to it on websites that were directed to "holistic" or "naturopathic" medicine, "energy medicine," chiropractic, and the like. My opinion of "holistic" doctors is about as low as can be, based on my experiences with Dr. Roger Valentine in Santa Monica who claimed to be treating my cat for bad skin sores by what amounted to holding small vials of holy water over the back of Fluffy's neck while thumping her upside the head to readjust her resonant frequencies. . . and who failed miserably when asked to repeat his diagnostic test results only this time without being able to see the labels on the vials. His treatment was, of course, completely ineffective, based on my unscientific test sample of one black and white pussy cat. I posted a more complete version of this sad but funny story at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/2526/P2180/.

So I don't know whether the Oxidata test has any validity to it or not, but I'm skeptical about even that part.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 08:11 PM
Joel

The link you gave mentioned the test is also known as the Oxidata test.

"The technological breakthrough Free Radical Test (also known as the Oxidata Test)..."

"The Free Radical urine test is 40 to 50 times more reliable than a MDA blood test. The accuracy of the test is within a range of 90%."

Wow! That accurate eh!

Wonderful stuff, but just what this all has to do with a scam patch system has yet to be established.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 08:26 PM
EDHUK wrote, "but just what this all has to do with a scam patch system has yet to be established."

Hey, I'd be interested in any statistically valid, reasonably scientific testing that shows that these goofy patches have ANY effect on people other than the placebo effect. It's been almost 5 years now, and we're still waiting.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 01:57 AM
"The Free Radical urine test is 40 to 50 times more reliable than a MDA blood test. The accuracy of the test is within a range of 90%."

Granted I'm not a scientist of any kind, but what does that mean? Does it mean that the accuracy varies anywhere from 0% to 90%? If so, that really would be useless as a piece of alleged information.

As for your explanation of the "Harry Benjamin" name, OK, I'll accept it. I guess I'm just the suspicious type when it comes to this stuff.
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 05:31 AM
For those concerned about the free radical test, keep in mind that I have been using the test for years. I first checked reliability. That's why it caught my attention with the first patients I tested it on. I didn't check validity so its possible it is measuring something else, but whatever it does measure, the patches effected a change. A double blind study is certainly premature at this time and given the nature probably not necessary, but if it was to be peer reviewed and published it should be.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 01:04 PM
Harry

"A double blind study is certainly premature at this time..."

This is basically the line that the LifeWave company has used from the day they started the scam.

There was never enough money or time to carry out properly conducted studies. They preferred to sell their products to the public on trust alone.

This thread has repeatedly referred to David Schmidt as a scam artist and con man. If we had done that to ANY genuine inventor/owner of a company, do you think they would have allowed us to keep disparaging their name?
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 03:37 PM
Harry,

I'm having trouble understanding why a double blind study would be "premature" and "probably not necessary" after the basic product has already been on the market for over 4 years, and the company is currently claiming that its latest incarnation will protect against biological agents and infections including malaria, and will protect against radiation exposure, and against hearing hearing loss, and will help heal soldier's trauma wounds.

When, in your professional opinion as a doctor, would be an appropriate time for double blind placebo controlled studies of the Defensewave patch?
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 04:06 PM
I'm not saying they should not have done one, just that for me, I'm going to give these to 10 patients randomly (I should get a supply on Fri) and if I see the same results then I'll have to consider the next step. I am a bit surprised that no one has contacted me from the company, assuming people from the company check this sight, when they have someone doing clinical work and finding some changes, albeit very preliminary. I personally have never gotten into any sales or multilevel work--its not what I do, I just thought they might be interested. Not sure what to make of their whole thing--I'll know more by mid next week as far as the patches; whether to go further or discard. Take care
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 09:38 PM
Harry

"I am a bit surprised that no one has contacted me from the company, assuming people from the company check this sight, when they have someone doing clinical work and finding some changes, albeit very preliminary."

Don't be too surprised Harry. LifeWave does read this website and makes corrections to errors/typos that we kindly point out to them!

Not quite sure why you describe yourself as doing clinical work. You have thus far described a level of expertise at best on a par with science 101.

Please don't take offense at my statement but, if you ever read this entire thread, you will see why some of us long time posters are battle weary.
Harry Benjamin
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 | 10:24 PM
One of the many diseases of thought in this country is not knowing how to just take information without making issues personal. OK, one person thinks I make up a name of some doctor and now I have to listen to someone (and what exactly are your credentials?) wanting to know if I am beyond science 101. If there is an interest in seeing if this works, next time someone gives information I would suggest just taking it-or maybe this is not the intent here. Everyone has their agenda. Mine is to help people and coming on and saying the same thing over and over--explaining what I found, explaining I needed to do more to see if it was accurate was all I said. This was my first, and last I imagine venture into this use of the internet. I am not interested in submitting my resume. I probably have been in practice longer than some of you have been alive. Good luck with your goals. If I find anything of interest it will probably filter down to here eventually through some source. Or maybe you can do your own "research" as you like to say.
Jeff
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 12:06 AM
The 200 out of 200 came from personal patching from myself to others with the Icewave patches. I have seen these patches alleviate if not take pain away altogether within seconds.
Jeff
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 12:08 AM
Joel, Who cares if I did a cut and paste job. Thank you for getting the http out there so others can see the great benefits to glutathione. Great job Joel!
Jeff
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 12:15 AM
Hi Harry,
It is pointless and a waste of time to deal with this forum. They are mocking everything you do and say and will continue to do this to anyone who defends and uses the lifewave technology. They have been doing this for years and still continue as what you say or do doesn't matter. They don't want to know anything about the patches. This is a hoax forum and they will stand by their made up minds about Lifewave and try to make you look like and idiot. They thrive on that.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 02:03 AM
Harry Benjamin said:

"One of the many diseases of thought in this country is not knowing how to just take information without making issues personal. OK, one person thinks I make up a name of some doctor and now I have to listen to someone (and what exactly are your credentials?) wanting to know if I am beyond science 101."

I struck me as interesting that your screen name was the same as a REAL doctor who has a verifiable history one can find using Google. I accepted your explanation that "Harry Benjamin" is derived from your children's names.

As for the "Science 101" thing, you have to understand that we've dealt with many LifeWave supporters who offer "proof" that is diametrically opposed to REAL science. Since you're making claims which purport to be scientific, isn't it reasonable to ask how you arrived at them and point out where they diverge from mainstream science?

"If there is an interest in seeing if this works, next time someone gives information I would suggest just taking it-or maybe this is not the intent here."

"Information" is NOT the same as "FACTUAL information." What we want is to get to the bottom line with LifeWave. Many of us believe that the patches are quack medicine, based on the fact that the claims made for them violate the known laws of physics. Feel free to read earlier postings on the thread for the reasons for that statement.

"Everyone has their agenda. Mine is to help people and coming on and saying the same thing over and over--explaining what I found, explaining I needed to do more to see if it was accurate was all I said. This was my first, and last I imagine venture into this use of the internet. I am not interested in submitting my resume."

Since you won't "submit your resume," can you not understand why we are suspicious of your claims? If I claimed to have performed some sort of amazing, 100% effective surgery on cancer patients, would you not ask me what my background in medicine was? If not, why not?

"I probably have been in practice longer than some of you have been alive."

What evidence do we have of that? Exactly WHAT field has your practice been in? Again, you're making statements with NO corroboration whatsover and expect us to take you at your word, when we don't even really know what you're claiming.

"Good luck with your goals. If I find anything of interest it will probably filter down to here eventually through some source. Or maybe you can do your own "research" as you like to say."

Phew, how DARE we want some FACTS to back up your "research?" How DARE we question some anonymous guy who won't tell us what his alleged field of expertise is? Honestly, don't you see how silly your anger is?
Coops
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 03:22 PM
Dr Harry Benjamin,

Have you heard from DOCTOR David Schmidt yet. He must be a doctor because he said so himself.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 06:43 PM
"If there is an interest in seeing if this works, next time someone gives information I would suggest just taking it..."

You'd think it was "Dr." David Schmidt posting!

"I probably have been in practice longer than some of you have been alive."

Really? The relevance of such a statement would be?

"It is pointless and a waste of time to deal with this forum."

Yet, Jeff, you sit on the sidelines waiting for your chance to try and "score" a point or two. You're posting here, again. No information to support ANY claims of efficacy made by "Dr." David Schmidt, just the usual waste of space comments.

"They are mocking everything you do and say and will continue to do this to anyone who defends and uses the lifewave technology."

Au contraire. We will continue to ask for simple verifiable evidence that the, so called, "LifeWave Technology" actually exists.

So far all we "know" is that plastic patches contain glucose and glycerin and NOTHING else and you stick them on your body or your shoes to get an immediate effect (other than the sound of money being sucked out of your bank account to pay for "Dr." Schmidt's new LA lifestyle.

"The 200 out of 200 came from personal patching from myself to others with the Icewave patches. I have seen these patches alleviate if not take pain away altogether within seconds."

Jeff, do you not see how this kind of "evidence" is worthless.

If I tell you 200 of my friends used the Icewave patches and found NO relief of pain...zip. nil, nada, my "evidence" would be equally worthless.

Scams rely on anecdotal evidence. It's a classic hallmark to those willing to see.

"When used in advertising or promotion of a product, service, or idea, anecdotal evidence is often called a testimonial and is banned in some jurisdictions. The term is also sometimes used in a legal context to describe certain kinds of testimony. Psychologists have found that people are more likely to remember notable examples than typical examples."

Courtesy of Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

It works because I say so just doesn't cut it in the real world, but for many it IS effective in extracting millions of dollars from their pockets every year.

"This is a hoax forum and they will stand by their made up minds about Lifewave and try to make you look like and idiot..."

Yes Jeff, it's a Hoax Forum. That's why we continue to discuss the LifeWave hoax/scam here.

How exactly could we make you seem like "and" idiot?

Never mind, you took care of that question.
Look
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 12:13 AM
http://www.lifewave.com/research.asp
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 01:31 AM
Look, as I have said before to Lifewave supporters: Thank you for that link.

Well, the study by Fenestra Reseach certainly seems credible, doesn
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 06:17 AM
Joel

"Comedy doesn
Jeff
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 08:39 AM
The hundreds of people I have helped with their pain level is real. RSD is one of them. This is the most painful disease out there. Bone on bone, neck and back pain from disc problems, back surgery, knee surgery, pulled hamstrings, shoulder pain, rheumetory arthritis you name it, I have had HUGH success with pain relief. None of you can discredit that.
EDHUK,
What are your credentials in all of this? What makes you and the rest of these handfull of goons experts on Lifewave? Did you get burned by David and have since had a temper tantrum that no one is listening to you about who are users and have great success?
br d
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 09:45 AM
What does EDHUK's 'credentials' have to do with anything?
He has said before that if Lifewave claims are proven he will be happy to accept them. You are making statements about the efficacy of Lifewave so you should show some real evidence.

How mant times does this simple point have to be made?

brad
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 03:23 PM
Jeff said:

"What makes you and the rest of these handfull of goons experts on Lifewave? Did you get burned by David and have since had a temper tantrum that no one is listening to you about who are users and have great success?"

Exactly what kind of degree does one need to know that the claims made for LifeWave clearly violate the known laws of physics? I'd say having taken high school science classes should be more than enough.

For the record, I have no degree in anything. I guess that automatically makes me inferior to the "Dr." who runs the LifeWave company, huh?

That nonsense about how anyone who points out the falsehoods in LifeWave's ever-changing story MUST be a failed distributor or something is really tiresome. YOU are making claims which are in contradiction with science, therefore YOU are in the position of having to either prove them or admit that you're wrong.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 04:19 PM
Jeff

"I have had HUGH success with pain relief. None of you can discredit that."

Firstly, who is Hugh?

Secondly we have only your word that you have had any success at all. I'll be happy to take your word if you take my word that David Schmidt is a simple con man and scam artist.

Thirdly, what exactly is rheumetory arthritis?
Is it when someone just thinks they have rheumatoid arthritis?

Finally, if you had taken the time to actually read this forum you would see that your replies have followed a much repeated formula.

I must say I am a little disappointed that after a good start you appear to be just another LifeWave clone. Pity.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 09:38 PM
Jeff, if credentials are so important than figure this:

"Dr." David Schmidt has an associates business degree.

I have a BS in Public Administration.

That would make me more qualified than your "doctor" there, by your argument.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 | 02:00 AM
I guess from now on, we have to call you DOCTOR Razela.
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