The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Mickey Mouse
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 | 12:32 PM
Captain Al;

If you go back and re-read my post, when I made the statement

<i>" How can you honestly, logically, truthfully and blatantly make statements about things you know NOTHING about."</i>

I was not referring to LW patches. I was referring to not watching a movie and then giving an opinion on what they thought it might be about. You can be forgiven on this occasion as the post was not relevant to LW, but still, I would like to think you actually read my postings 😊

Also.....

When I claimed:

<i>"And you wonder why science is stuck in first gear?"</i>

I was referring to "Medical Science" - there are more people sick now than ever in history, and NO DRUG cures a disease, when $BILLIONS are wasted each year on useless research.

BTW, I have not seen a posting yet by you with the CURES that pharmaceutical drugs allow.

Again making this simple for you:

Name me THREE DRUGS and the DISEASE IT CURES.

Thanks.....

About the legal issues, Joel I believe you are probably correct on this. It is not my strongest point.

finally....

Dave,

<i>By definition, you cannot accuse a person of a slanderous statement when it is the truth.</i>

This is true, however, the truth has not been proven either, so we are in limbo. I believe in innocent until proven guilty. I have seen nothing on this board that "proves" to me that the LW patches are a scam.

There are alot of "suspicious things" for sure but not enough to convict just yet.

If the patch doesn't fit you must acquit......
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 | 01:29 PM
Mickey. Up at the top of the page it says "new forum." You can click on that and then make a new thread based on your theories on pharmaceutical companies (or even your video if you so choose). I will gladly follow the debate there, and I think many other MoH members that have long ago given up on this thread (or joined post-new forum) would be happy to debate as well.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 | 04:32 PM
"By definition, you cannot accuse a person of a slanderous statement when it is the truth."

"(BTW, for those interested in technicalities, slander is a false and damaging oral statement. Libel is a false and damaging written statement. So statements posted here could constitute libel but not slander.)"

Thanks Joel.

My main point will continue to be that I feel incredibly safe from any kind of legal proceedings.

I wonder how safe David Schmidt feels?

?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 | 06:32 PM
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/2947/

There you go Mickey.

The medicine debate can flourish as Off-topic chit chat and not fudge the LifeWave scam patches issue here.

You're welcome.
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 | 06:46 PM
Thanks Dave...your such a nice chap....

One more thing, can you invite Cranky and Razela to answer the question I asked them on this thread.

That is to name me THREE DRUGS and the DISEASE they CURE.

Heck, I can probably do that myself.

Here goes.....wish me luck.....ahem....!!!

Cranky & Razela please go to the thread created ever so kindly by Dave and answer the above question.

Wow...that was easy.....this could be fun.....I know how to ask questions now.......wooohoooo

Guess the fun goes out of it...when no-one answers......

Cranky & Razela don't spoil a mans buzz here....ANSWER>>>>>
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 | 09:08 PM
Mickey wrote, "name me THREE DRUGS and the DISEASE they CURE."

This is off the LW topic, but to name a family of drugs, by all accounts Lance Armstrong was cured of a very deadly form of cancer by surgery and aggressive chemotherapy treatment. So now we have the family of antibiotics (see http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/Miscellaneous/common_antibiotics.html for a long list) and the family of chemotherapy drugs (see http://www.chemocare.com/bio/ for a long list) that cure diseases, namely various bacterial infections and cancers, respectively). So there's a few hundred drugs for you, Mickey.

To bring this back to the Lifewave scam, various wavers have said over and over again that Lance Armstrong wears (or wore) LW patches. We skeptics have asked them repeatedly what proof they have of that, and if memory serves correctly, no waver has come up with one shred of evidence that Lance Armstrong ever even wore LW patches, let alone continued to wear them. It is, however, widely accepted that Armstrong's life was saved by Western medicine's cancer treatments and drugs, rather than by any resonant energy therapy, or meridian balancing, or swirling energy vortexes, or any other oogah boogah treatment administered by somebody with a bone through his nose and a credit card imprint machine.

BTW, I was at the Staples Center yesterday for the Lakers' heartbreaking loss to San Antonio in OT. LW posters have said repeatedly that Tim Duncan wears (or wore) LW patches, but I didn't see any patches on Duncan, and I had a pretty good seat. So perhaps we can add Tim Duncan to the list of people who tried the patches and apparently decided that they were worthless and quit wearing them. Perhaps Tim Duncan didn't enjoy reading public speculation about whether he was going to start wearing a tinfoil hat next (http://www.pistonsforum.com/nba-stuff/172-spur-talk-5.html ).

"Have you tried the patches?"

No, but Sagi Kalev did and he apparently has decided that he doesn't want LifeWave's money anymore, and Tim Duncan did but apparently stopped, and the Troy University football team did and then sucked, and the Morehouse College football team did and then sucked, and David Beckham did and was thereafter fired as the captain of his country's team, and . . .

So much for the value of testimonials.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 | 01:54 AM
Sorry, but I'm just not going to take the bait about NO pharmaceuticals curing ANY disease. Even if that was true (which is isn't), that wouldn't prove that LifeWave does ANYTHING.

This thread is about LifeWave, pure and simple. Knock yourself out on your new thread; I may or may not visit there to argue with you. I'm not going to do it on THIS thread, though.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 | 06:08 AM
CMG

Absolutely, hence the new thread for those interested in Mickey's dubious claim.

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/2947/
Coops
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 | 01:08 PM
I'm still sticking with my findings that the patches ARE transdermal. Let me ask this question to the Wavers, "How close do the patches have to be to the skin before they'll work?" If I cover over the area of the patch that comes into contact with the body then simply band-aid over the top of the patches to hold it onto my chest, will it still work"

Remember, I agree that the patches do work to some degree but not according to the "cell phone theory".

Could someone other that the cartoon characters answer the question
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 | 09:07 PM
Coops

In the early days, the distributors would do a trick where they put patches on peoples shoes (or so it has been reported here) and people were said to have experienced an "effect".

The issue of David Schmidt NOT taking up the James Randi Foundation $Million Challenge has been discussed. Why wouldn't David want a million bucks?

I think the answer continues to be the most obvious. He has NOTHING to test. Failure to demonstrate anything is assured.

DS knows all too well that by failing to demonstrate his product works means the end of the cash cow.

Why bother with one million when he can rake in far more money until this scam is finally stopped by the appropriate authorities. A process that continues to be painstakingly slow.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 | 09:13 PM
"Just the fact that the tip test is so effective after placing the patches on the SHOES of the subject wearing them (notice I said shoes NOT bare feet) would be enough to convince anyone who has personally experienced this that there are immediate effects from this technology."

http://quikonnex.com/channel/item/13007
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 | 01:49 AM
Hey, didn't anyone think that perhaps it's the SHOES that do the magic?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 | 05:48 PM
Interesting that when we try to concentrate on getting ANY kind of evidence that LifeWave patches are anything other than a complete scam, the posts dry up.

Strip away the insults and accusations about we skeptics and what you have left is a great big ZERO.

Fascinating!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 | 08:08 PM
Just to confirm ONE MORE TIME how insane this LifeWave patches SCAM really is, look at this website:
http://www.togetbetter.com/

"When I was first introduced to the energy patches I was given a couple. I dismissed them as a scam and put them in my bag and forgot them but one day at work few weeks later when a colleague and I were both feeling pretty dished and had a long busy day ahead I remembered them. Well, needless to say, I wouldn't be promoting them if they didn't work. We were both totally amazed at the difference and finished the day feeling quite fresh."

Notice how our lady states she was given a couple of patches. TWO. She and her colleage BOTH used A patch and ended up feeling "quite fresh".

Who knew the patches acted like a deodorant! I presume she meant refreshed.

The patch system is based on using two patches at the SAME time. One of these ladies used a white (glycerin) patch and the other used a brown (glucose) patch. Perhaps they stood close together and held hands!

They BOTH felt an effect. WOW!

Now, someone tell me it's not placebo effect.

Moronic? Yes, but Schmidt obviously finds people of this caliber every day. You almost want them to be conned. They deserve it don't they?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 01:47 AM
Ah....it is good to see a little integrity now and again it warms the soul. Oops...can't prove I have a soul maybe I shouldn't say such a blatant untruth???

Anyway this link is a nice summary of the medical establishment in the good ol USA http://www.newstarget.com/021526.html

Land of the Free (to do as you are told!!!)

It is not surprising that the sheeple are looking for something other than the blatant quackery which is rife in the pharmaceutical industry.

NO DRUGS CURE ANY DISEASE....

What doctors say about Chemo Therapy

There is no scientific evidence for chemotherapy being able to extend in any appreciable way the lives of patients suffering from the most common organic cancers, which accounts for 80% of all cancers? (Dr Ulrich Abel. 1990)

"Most cancer patients in this country die of chemotherapy
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 05:14 AM
OK, M.M., you have been asked to confine the "no drugs cure anything" stuff to the new thread created for it. This stuff has NOTHING to do with LifeWave, which is what THIS thread is about.

You've been done the courtesy of having a thread set up for your anti-medication rant. Please use it.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 05:14 AM
All very interesting but what does this have to do with the scam artist David Schmidt and his patches containing glycerin (white) and glucose (brown)?

As with previous attempts to divert the discusion away from the subject of this thread, it would make sense to start a new thread on the topic.

Oh, I forgot, we've been here and already done it.

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/2947/
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 04:02 PM
It appears our cartoon buddy has given us a link to a website that actually contains an article reviewed elsewhere that IS appropriate on this thread.

I give this link because it remains on topic. The notion that when someone claims to have an alternative product not understood by the medical community, we are supposed to accept it blindly.

By being skeptical we somehow offend such claim making people. I guess you can't please everyone.

http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=39
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 04:17 PM
I know this is slightly off topic, but it's interesting to see how certain scams seem to get to the top of the heap while others (Schmidt and his patches) carry on seemingly for ever.

A while back many LifeWavers jumped ship for a much better business opportunity...Bioperformance.

I presume they are not so happy now.

http://news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=178126
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 05:41 PM
Thanks Cranky Dude for your suggestions but I am a member of this thread and am not breaking any rules by posting things that I perceive relevant to this discussion.

Why do I think the pharmaceutical discussion is relevant?

Quite simple really.

In this conditioned medical establishment which was created as a profit machine and the health of the patient is secondary, it is very apparent that people are looking for alternatives to the poisons which the conditioned mind numbed doctors are feeding them without even knowing a damn thing about their effects.

They listen to and get wined and dined by the pharmaceutical companies and push their drugs onto their patients without even the basic due diligence on their part. These people are the true charlatans, paid shills and scumbags IMHO.

Then you have "alternative" products which people claim to work, but there is no proof. Where are the double blinds they say.....well it is a fact that once you "prove" a dietary supplement works it no longer resides in that category, it is then called a "drug" for which you need $MILLIONS to even consider getting it into the marketplace and you need to be "very" friendly with government officials, FDA, FTC etc etc etc.....

Are you beginning to see why it is much safer and cost effective to have people try products, see for themselves that they work to the extent that they want to re-order and not make "claims" that can only be made by drugs, which I keep telling you DON'T CURE ANYTHING....

You are still allowed...phew....to give your own personal testimony on what happened to you when you tried product A or product B, it is not against the law....YET!!!

But to the "true scientists" and "establishment doctors" who feed us poison everyday these are anecdotal and worthless.

I say "BULLSHIT!!!" they are the only source of truth we have left.....

It is a stacked deck out there in the health world, the big guns want profit for their shareholders and they don't care how they get it.

Lifewave is one of hundreds of companies that would fall into your "quack" category, but if they did happen to "prove" the patches worked, they would be instantly classified a "Drug" and their game would be over.

Once drugs start curing disease the profits stop coming in......we couldn't have that now could we.....

So YES the pharmaceutical arguement is VERY relative to this thread and if you would for one second take the blinkers off you may just see a crack of light shining though.

Long live the men and women of integrity who continue to bring us options and choices, some day in the near future these basic civil liberties may be taken away. Please check out the CODEX law which is supposedly there to protect us from the "Dangerous Quacks" unfortunately the dangerous quacks of this world do not even realize they are the quacks.

Soon when the only people who can "prescribe" pharmaceutical grade highly overpriced vitamins to the sheeple are MD's and when what most of these MD's know about proper nutrition could be writen on the back of a postage stamp, the use of these alternatives will be classifed a "felony drug crime" then GOD HELP US ALL....

Those that do realize choose to steer the path of least resistance, those that stand up for their beliefes and those with integrity, fall foul to the corruption.

Those men and women have my respect and I will fight for their honor, for indeed without them we may aswell just hang up the boots now, instead of slowly rotting to death from the inside out.

This is not about "Lifewave" it is a much larger picture than that.

Au Revoir
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 08:43 PM
I see Mickey is STILL having trouble concentrating on the issue of THIS thread:

David Schmidt, con artist, and his worthless patches.

The debate about pharmaceuticals continues on this thread:
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/2947/
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 08:50 PM
"without even the basic due diligence on their part."

What a fascinating part of MM's post, albeit in the wrong thread.

Yet when we skeptics perform due diligence on the LifeWave scam we are subjected to the rantings and ravings of people who should not be allowed to possess sharp objects.

Funny that.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 | 08:54 PM
"Lifewave is one of hundreds of companies that would fall into your "quack" category, but if they did happen to "prove" the patches worked, they would be instantly classified a "Drug" and their game would be over."

To the contrary. I suggest LifeWave, and non-scientist David Schmidt, would be heralded as the greatest scientific breakthrough since HE said "Let there be light".
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 | 01:30 AM
"Lifewave is one of hundreds of companies that would fall into your "quack" category, but if they did happen to "prove" the patches worked, they would be instantly classified a "Drug" and their game would be over."

Uh, what "game" would be over? If the patches were shown to be REAL, LifeWave would be proven to be a REAL breakthrough and the company would instantly become worth many millions, if not billions of dollars.

Also, Schmidt would be able to license his technology to other companies AND he would almost certainly win many awards.

Since they would be proven to be non-invasive, I think there would be little government regulation of the patches. I mean, there's no side-effects, right? What would there be to restrict?

I'm not seeing how it would be bad for him to test his product, assuming it would PASS the tests.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 | 08:22 AM
"Lifewave is one of hundreds of companies that would fall into your 'quack' category, but if they did happen to 'prove' the patches worked, they would be instantly classified a 'Drug' and their game would be over."

Of course. David Schmidt could - but cleverly chooses not to - prove that the patches work, because although proof of efficacy would put many millions of dollars in his pocket and gain him instant worldwide recognition, it would also bring FDA regulation. Damned clever. DS continues to think one step ahead of everybody.

That's a great explanation because it is timeless. It doesn't have a built-in expiration as do the previous explanations like, "We have to make enough money selling patches before we have the funds to test them," or "Forty double blind placebo controlled studies are currently in progress. Results will be published soon. Just you watch."
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 | 05:40 PM
Joel

Doesn't Schmidt already have FDA involvement? I thought they produced the patches in an FDA approved facility. Their "clean room" certainly has to meet regulations.

From day 1 of this scam the simplest of explanations has continued to make the most sense.

Schmidt is a con man. He has come up with a way to steal money from people by them willingly giving it to him.

They think they have bought into a new science. Instead they have bought a front row seat for the humiliation that will come.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 | 06:42 PM
EDHUK,

By golly, you're right.

"All LifeWave patch products are constructed from organic materials (GRAS listed [Generally Recognized as Safe by the FDA])
- All LifeWave patch products are manufactured at FDA registered facilities.
- All LifeWave patch products are registered with the FDA as Class I medical devices."

http://www.lifewave.com/EnergyEnhancerResearch.asp

Now that LifeWave has gone to all that trouble to get the FDA's blessings for its products and for its production facilities, why not demonstrate that the patches actually do something, as well? I guess that's the hard part . . .
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 | 06:52 PM
It sounds to me like LifeWave violates its own policies.

LifeWave's policy states: "A LifeWave Member shall not represent that the LifeWave . . . products have been approved, sponsored, or endorsed by any governmental agency." http://www.lifewave.com/policies.asp

Compare to: "All LifeWave patch products are registered with the FDA as Class I medical devices." http://www.lifewave.com/EnergyEnhancerResearch.asp

That sure sounds a lot like a (prohibited) representation that LW patches have been approved by the FDA.
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 | 07:07 AM
A class I medical device? That just means that it probably won't damage you to use it and that it's properly labelled. It doesn't have to actually be beneficial. It doesn't even have to be well made. A tongue depressor would be a class I medical device.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 | 12:08 PM
Accipiter,
It's the nature of a thread like this very long ( now approaching 200 pages)discussion about LifeWave patches that just about everything has been said about it.

However, because new people log on to this thread from time to time, many points are repeated. The class 1 medical device for example was discussed way back.

It's a perfect example of how calculated David Schmidt has been from the start. Some people would read the part about the FDA and Class 1 and look no further for any truth in Schmidt's claims. Many such people have posted here.

In the early days Schmidt pushed the cell phone analogy. Then after some months he applied for a listing for a hot and cold device.

Later out came the pain patches followed some time later by the new way that the energy patches work. Surprise surprise...heating and cooling effects on the body brought about by the patches. No mention of heating and cooling in the cell phone days.

A chameleon of a company changing descriptions and even whole methods of action at a whim.

Meanwhile hard line skeptics like myself and many others here keep plugging away.

We got it right about the Bioperformance "magic" gas pill. Too silly for words, right?

I think LifeWave is too silly for words but apparently people are still getting conned every day.

Good job I'm a very patient person. I'm going to keep plugging away and, who knows, maybe one or two people might look at this "company" more thoroughly before handing over their money.

?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 | 11:07 PM
Waooooow...

Now FDA regulations are substandard to the skeptics....lol....

Remember, Lifewave has approval from the powers that be, they are not breaking any laws, they are providing a service which people obviously want, they are doing good business and people purchase again and again....they work for a higher percentage of people than most conventional drugs eg chemotherapy and they are completely non-toxic with no known side effects...

furthermore....

if Lifewave actually "prove" they work they will no longer be Class 1 and would be classified as a drug - they would then need to go through the usual $100 million + to have them approved via clinical trials....and even then there are no guarantee's of approval...

so I ask you IF you were David Schmidt what would YOU DO....
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 01:01 AM
Mickey said:
"Now FDA regulations are substandard to the skeptics."

No. I guess we need to remind you Lifewave got approved as a Class 1 device. That's the same category as bandaids. If that's the best thing they can be compared to then it's the right one. However, no other bandaid I know of claims to increase the energy of the user.

It's obvious to everyone here except you that the whole purpose was just to get the words "FDA Approved" on the box. Of course Lifewave is counting on most people not bothering to check exactly what it was approved for and that they would assume it's approved as an energy increasing product. It's all in the marketing.

"IF you were David Schmidt what would YOU DO...."

I would go for the $100 million approval. A product that does what Lifewave claims would be worth billions. Millions for billions. Not a bad investment if you ask me; and you did.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 01:32 AM
Mickey wrote, "they are completely non-toxic with no known side effects."

Really? How do you know that, Mickey? You've said that you believe that LifeWave patches produce energy fields, but how do you know that the energy fields produced by LW patches don't include "toxic energy" fields or "detrimental resonance" or any other new age mumbo-jumbo that other new age mumbo-jumbo products out there in the marketplace claim to protect against?

They have "no known side effects"? Isn't that simply false? Haven't we seen at least one person post a testimonial saying that he felt LESS energy when wearing the patches?

It's fun to just make stuff up, isn't it, Mickey?

And if LW patches produce energy fields, is it really possible that ALL of the effects of those energy fields on humans are positive? Isn't it inevitable that those fields would have at least SOME detrimental side effects?

It's fun to ignore logic, isn't it Mickey?

Hey Mickey, you claimed in the past to be a "researcher" when you were trying to establish some bona fides. What is your training and experience as a "researcher"? You keep ducking that question, which is a legitimate follow-up to the claims you made for yourself.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 01:38 AM
So, if you're using the FDA approval of LifeWave as a Class One medical device, similar to Band-Aids, to "prove" that LifeWave can do the things claimed for it, can Johnson and Johnson claim that Band-Aids are "energy enhancing" devices as well?

I think J and J is missing out on a whole new market here.
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 02:14 AM
Yes Al I think we all would go for the $100 million option to make billions. Got that kind of loot under the matress? Only our drug dealers have that kinda money.

Joel you are very keen to find out my "qualifications" If I was a doctor like Mr Schmidt you would have a field day, if I was a high school drop out you would have a field day too.....if I was a bona fide PhD you would probably find something wrong with the University etc etc etc.....the beauty about the internet is you can be anyone you want.

Today I am Mickey Mouse. Sqeaky clean.....

You do not IMHO need to be decorated academically to know what you are talking about, in fact I see more and more MD's (of which I am not) referring to me for advice on my research.

So I am a researcher. I do my own research and I try to remain unbiased.

If the highly decorated medical researchers are so hot then why are we so sick?

Cranky I think you might be on to something there...why don't you contact J&J....have do a trial on their Batman Band Aids....lets see if we can get some of the worlds elite athletes to try them??

Why don't you try them....wouldn't it be great if you could prove a placebo while wearing regular band aids.....maybe you could try them with some real LW patches...surely just the thought of being like Batman would make you stronger...
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 03:20 PM
Mickey? You really are a researcher? Your experiences could bring a new dimension to this whole debate. What field do you research, out of curiosity?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 03:29 PM
All very interesting stuff. The part about the FDA was that David Schmidt spent a whopping $75 ( correct me someone if I didn't remember that correctly) to send off his application which is still pending is it not?

Not much money to be able to add the FDA Class I wording. Too simple for words really.

As for checking out people who make claims here isn't that fair game?

Isn't it fair to question people who spend good money on a piece of electronics that magically inserts "powers" into band aids?

http://www.biophotonanalyzer.com/

It's unfortunate that, apart from the one or two questionable characters that come along, there really doesn't appear to be the wealth of LifeWave supporters that one might expect...if this product was for REAL.

Instead we glide along in some kind of altered truth. A blip in the continuum of reality. Come to think of it, a perfect match for The Advanced Bio-Photon Analyzer. At last, common ground.

Perfect.

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 03:40 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophoton

How does the band aid emit light exactly? Also when did a band aid become a biological system?

Or am I just reading the whole thing incorrectly?

Anyone?

?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 03:48 PM
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/wonkywater.html

"Analyze your own Bio-Photons!
For only US $1850, you can get their your own Bio-Photon Analyzer that will, among other things, "make remedies, clone energies and homeopathics, and make antidotes."

Note: Biophoton emission, as used in the scientific literature, refers to extremely weak chemiluminescence from living systems. See, for example, An introduction to human biophoton emission or this Wikipedia article. It didn't take the hucksters and scammers very long to latch onto the use of the term to separate suckers from their dollars by flogging worthless "analyzers"."

I presume this guy is way off the mark?, right?

?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 05:26 PM
Mickey Mouse said:

"Cranky I think you might be on to something there...why don't you contact J&J....have do a trial on their Batman Band Aids....lets see if we can get some of the worlds elite athletes to try them??"

Well, as you know (or SHOULD know), a placebo requires the user to BELIEVE in the power of the product being tested. That's what the "placebo effect" IS.

Yes, I honestly believe that if ordinary Band-Aids were tested on people who were told that they had the ability to impart energy to the wearer, a certain percentage of those tested would say that they actually experienced that effect.

You would have to tell them, of course, that they were "special" Band-Aids, as most people know that ORDINARY Band-Aids don't work like that, but given that deception, yes, I believe that some people would "feel" something.

The human mind is a baffling and fascinating thing to behold. Just ask "Dr." David Schmidt.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 05:53 PM
Mickey wrote, "So I am a researcher. I do my own research and I try to remain unbiased."

I asked about your background in research because you brought the "researcher" thing to the table.

I agree in the abstract that one does not need to be decorated academically in order to have something useful to say, and some valid input, but someone's training and background helps let us know where that person is coming from and what they know, and what they probably don't know. I'm trained as an electrical engineer and worked in that area extensively, so that's the area in which I have specialized knowledge to contribute to this forum. I don't know crap about medicine, other than from general reading and applying background principles of chemistry and physics, of which I know some from engineering school. People can evaluate what I say, and judge the source, with my background and experience (or lack of same depending on the subject area) in mind.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 07:47 PM
Joel,
You make a very fair point. Many posters bring viewpoints and insights using their backgrounds and training.

It must be more than a little difficult to make a case for specialist knowledge that also includes a belief in items sold by scam artists.

Getting conned once...maybe, but twice? Time for a re-think there I humbly suggest.

Again, it's not really about the minutiae of individual posters, it's about a man who appeared from nowhere essentially claiming to be the new "Messiah" in scientific terms.

A man who can do miracles with the aid of a few special circular sticky patches that "talk" to you or heat and cool you, or do whatever it is HE thinks up next.

It's all about relentlessly holding the light of rational inquiry up to this person and asking:

How did you make your great discovery?

Where in your background did you learn the specialist skills that enabled you to "invent" such an astounding new technology?

Why haven't I seen you on television; on Good Morning America, The Larry King Show, Oprah, The learning Channel and many many other programs who undoubtedly would scramble to be able to interview you?

How come nobody I talk with or email has even heard about you?

How much longer do you think you can deceive the general public and do you have a plan of exit that will keep you out of jail?

?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 | 08:21 PM
Razela my field of research is health and directly in line with Hippocrates and his oath when he stated:

<b>"First Do No Harm" </b>

I just spoke with a guy today who has been in dialogue with the FTC/FDA about his nitric oxide formulations. These guys have FDA food grade approval and retail products as a "Dietary Supplement".

They know their products can help with hypertension, diabetes, cardiovascular/stroke issues, erectile dysfunction and a plethora of more minor dis-eases, they even have studies to prove it. However, if they release their data and PROVE IT they will be catapulted into the DRUG WORLD and they don't have the money to perform clinical trials.

So they happily and profitably remain a Dietary Supplement. It is safer and more cost effective.

One company that is coming dangerously close to an FDA lawsuit is Waiora. They have a liquid zeolite product which seems to be a very powerful oral chelator. The patent on which their product is based claims to kill 100% of epithelial cell cancers. They are making millions and will be taken out by the roots very soon. Keep an eye out for them in the near future...you heard it here first.

Big Pharma doesn'y like competition....

I really like this link for an honest reflection on US health.
http://www.cafeoflifepikespeak.com/Videos/Licensed%20To%20Pill.swf
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 08:29 AM
And the previous insightful post proves that LifeWave patches are not a scam product in what way?

Anybody?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 10:50 AM
In the same way that all of your posts have proved beyond scientific doubt that the Lifewave patches are a scam.

I am only trying to show you that things are not always as black and white as a one dimensional skeptical mind thinks.

If that is not relevant to this thread then you are even more conditioned than I already know you to be.

<b>"I see"</b> said the blind man!!!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 12:15 PM
"...one dimensional skeptical mind thinks."

To the contrary. I believe the skeptics who have addressed the issue of the LifeWave patches have tackled the Schmidt claims from MANY different angles.

The proof of these many angles of view is richly illustrated in the past 194 pages of this thread.

Skeptics are just as interested in products being genuine as the next man. Who wouldn't like extra energy?

We have laid out what would be regarded as reasonable questions for ANY new business making outrageous claims for a product.

We have even had to re-think on the move when "Dr." David Schmidt (self titled) changed the entire theory behind his "energy patch" system.

Where we once discussed the merits of cellular phone like patches sending signals to your body to "make more energy" we are now focussed on energy patches that use heating and cooling to encourage body cells to burn more fat.

This can hardly be described as one dimensional thinking.

I maintain that ANY person who has so clearly illustrated their ability to be scammed is hardly a person to turn to for unbiased research or opinion on this subject, and for that matter any subject.

Such a person is at ZERO on the credibility scale despite the rhetoric, clever phrasing and vitriol.

Consummate at obfuscation yes. A respected illustrator of truth, clearly no.

*
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 02:23 PM
Dave,

I am not claiming that David Schmidt can prove that the patches work. I am claiming that IF he does PROVE THEY WORK he swims into shark infested waters. This is not somewhere where some "smallfry" of the health industry dares to tread. They know once they are there, what happens!!

Logically it makes sense to me why he "changed" his story - Hot Cold theory is widely accepted and has already passed the scrutiny of the medical community.

IMHO he tried to "tell the truth" but some people (yourself included) are not yet ready to hear or believe. Much like the medical establishment.

For example the "cure" for scurvy was widely know 140 years before it was accepted by the "stiffs"

I challenge you to look at the life of a brilliant scientist Raymond Royal Rife, he produced microscopes which cannot be duplicated today and was killing cancer and other dangerous microbes 50+ years ago.

He was the "King Of The Hill" and when some of the top scientists around the world including the physician for the Queen of England, no doubt, heard about his technology, they came and even purchased his "frequency" equipment. They were even reproducing his findings with their equipment. Look it up its public domain.

They held a grand dinner for him with all the "elite" entitled;
<b>"The Cure Of All Disease"</b>
unfortunately the spin doctors got to work, they infiltrated his organization, greed took over and he was sued in many frivolous lawsuits - he died a broken man.

His research was destroyed and his microscopes seized and destroyed by "the powers that be" - what Rife was producing way back then CANNOT be reproduced today....we don't have the knowledge this genious had.

He was naive - green - he thought that the medical institutions and pharmaceutical companies wanted to cure people - boy was he wrong.

As I say the deck is stacked against people making breakthroughs that "Do No Harm" and actually work. Because they are then classed as drugs and most cannot afford the process and those that can don't want to risk their product not getting approved.

So yes, it would be great if we lived in a "fair" world where the people in charge of looking for "cures" were actually <b>"looking for cures"</b>, instead of sending their best chemists to the rain forrests to extract the best natural remedies and bring them back to their labs and try to synthesize them, where they can then own the patent and make $BILLIONS.

This is their game....and We The People....are the losers in the end. Skeptic or not we are sicker now than ever in history and the drugs we take are poisonous have dangerous side effects and DO NOT CURE DISEASE.

So indeed Dave for once I agree with you when you say <b>"ANY person who has so clearly illustrated their ability to be scammed is hardly a person to turn to for unbiased research or opinion"</b>

I ask..Why should anyone listen to your nonsense???
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 03:18 PM
"Logically it makes sense to me why he "changed" his story - Hot Cold theory is widely accepted and has already passed the scrutiny of the medical community."

Two points.
1: NO bona fide medical or scientific community has scrutinized the patches let alone given them approval.
2: That you would find this all logical tells us everything we would ever want to know about you.

On your continuing tirade about the pharmaceutical industry. You have been asked nicely to take this to another thread specially set up for you as you didn't appear to be capable of doing so yourself:

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/2947/

This thread is about the LIFEWAVE SCAM.

As for why anyone should "listen" to my "nonsense".

You may not have noticed but this is the WRITTEN WORD. I'm not talking out loud. If you can HEAR me then I suggest you take another pill from the industry you obviously hate.

I WRITE words here and people are FREE to read them and consider my suggestions about the LifeWave SCAM or not.

I have NOTHING to gain; no profit, no advantage of any kind. In fact, from time to time as with other skeptics who post here, I have to endure the ramblings and rantings of people who are clearly not of this planet.

If you have credible evidence that David Schmidt is IN FACT the great scientist and inventor he claims to be please post it here.

*
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 04:09 PM
Let me spell this out to you David as you seem to miss the point. You want DS to PROVE his patches work. Correct me if I am wrong here PLEASE.

I am telling you IF he proves they work they are then INSTANTLY A DRUG and would need clinical trials performed on them. ONLY pharmaceutical companies can afford this process approval.

Even if he won Randi's Million he would sill be about $399 MILLION dollars shy of an FDA Approved process.

Are you beginning to see the picture.

There NEVER will be proof as long as the system is against wanting REAL proof.

This is a very important part of the Lifewave puzzle and IMHO the reason why DS is so tight lipped and ever willing to change his story.

Maybe he knows he "can't win" so he is doing the next best thing. Selling his product to people who "claim" it works for them. And keeping as far under the radar as possible??

Then we have so called open minded skeptics calling scam scam scam and they don't seem to know how the system works.

What does bona fide mean anway?

Are you talking about a company that pays lobbyists backhanders for favors. Institutions who "hide" deadly research and allows humans to become living experiments for their drugs.

Are they bona fide?

Don't talk to me about bona fide, you are obviously very naive and thing all red flowers that look like roses actually smell like roses.

And Yes the fact that I find all this logical does say alot - it says I am NOT locked within the same box as your mind is and am willing to look at things from more than one perspective and not speculate about science without experimentation.

You wouldn't last two seconds as a chemist or a scientist.

I can just see you now...sitting there with your smug grin telling the researchers who are getting their results that they must all be a placebo, because I have never heard about this technology, it must not be real.

LOL....Dave you really are a joke....and I am saddened you are not at the very least getting paid by some spin doctor for your time on this thread because that makes it just an even bigger waste of your time.

<b>In summary:</b>
David is right everyone else has been scammed and is obviously wrong and much weaker than him. Also he has more hairs on his chest, his penis is probably body sized proportionately larger than yours, his dad can beat your dad up and with the heel extensions he can stand over 5ft 6 inches tall. What a guy.......
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 04:32 PM
"I am telling you IF he proves they work they are then INSTANTLY A DRUG"

?

What are you on, and are you still in High School?

?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 04:36 PM
Part 2

"I am telling you IF he proves they work they are then INSTANTLY A DRUG and would need clinical trials performed on them."

David Schmidt has claimed that his patches DO WORK because he has clinical trials that PROVE they do.

So now what?
?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 05:47 PM
Part 3

"I am not claiming that David Schmidt can prove that the patches work. I am claiming that IF he does PROVE THEY WORK he swims into shark infested waters."

From the LifeWave website:

" Clinical studies have shown that this effect increases energy and the burning of fat."

"Clinical Results: Increase in fat burning of over 20% in the first use in double blind placebo controlled studies."

"Double blind placebo controlled research studies have shown both the safety and effectiveness of LifeWave products."

"All products are produced to the highest quality standards, and are tested in rigorous clinical studies."

What's that I see?

A shark's fin?

Duh.

*
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 | 09:09 PM
David Schmidt would not have to worry about the costs and time involved in drug testing and drug standards because his product is classified as a medical device, not a drug. They have a completely different and simpler set of standards. After all, he's already managed to get himself classified with them. He can perform and publish all the tests he wants, and it would never fall under the FDA drug testing standards unless he's been lying about how it works all along.

Nor is the US the only nation in the world where manufacture and purchase of drugs and medical devices takes place, nor is the FDA the only organisation in the world that exercises oversight over such things.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 | 03:01 AM
Mickey Mouse engages in the same false "logic" that a lot of supporters of "alternative" medicine use: Somewhere, someone went against the medical establishment and was (allegedly) eventually proven correct. The current Victim Du Jour is proposing something that mainstream medical science rejects, therefore VDJ will also ultimately be vindicated.

Oh, since I have your attention, allow me to make a suggestion. This figure of $100 million, which is what it would supposedly cost to get FDA approval, gets thrown around a lot. Assuming that's correct, why doesn't "Dr." Schmidt sell LifeWave to a large pharmaceutical company for a huge amount of money (which, if the patches actually worked, they would be worth), plus a royalty on every unit sold?

That way, he gets his money and doesn't have to pony up the dough for FDA approval.

Instead of doing the logical thing, "Dr." Schmidt prefers to go the MLM route. One can only speculate about why.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 | 07:11 AM
CMG

"...why doesn't "Dr." Schmidt sell LifeWave to a large pharmaceutical company for a huge amount of money..."

As we skeptics already "know", Schmidt's patches are a SCAM.

He would NEVER be able to get any company to buy his "invention".

*
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 | 02:11 AM
EDHUK said:

"As we skeptics already "know", Schmidt's patches are a SCAM.

"He would NEVER be able to get any company to buy his "invention".

Gee, you think? Yes, that's MY conclusion, too. I like to bring up these questions in the hope that some of the True Believers will consider them.

I can't WAIT for the Believers to respond. My guess is that they will say that Schmidt doesn't sell out to a large pharma because they would "suppress" his amazing invention for some illogical reason.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 | 06:03 AM
CMG

You were included in the "we skeptics".

Your views on this type of scam are well known and much appreciated. You are one of the reasons I keep posting.

May you continue to keep a wary eye on the Schmidts of this world.

Cheers
Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 | 10:47 AM
I don't know why big pharma would possibly "suppress" David Schmidt's invention if they could get the rights to it. At $6 for a day's worth of patches, with the patches being no good anymore after only a day, these patches would be the perfect big pharma product (if they actually did anything). Isn't that what people like Kevin Trudeau accuse big pharma of doing - gaming the system so that the drug companies can keep selling people regular dosages of something that carries a huge profit margin? And what could have a huger profit margin that a tiny bit of honey, molasses, and glycerin in plastic band-aid like patches that sell for $6/pair, $90/month?

There'd be more money in these patches (if they actually did anything) than in Viagara, Cialis, and Levitra combined. I would think that big pharma would be breaking down David Schmidt's door to get the rights to sell these things.

Oh wait, I forgot, big pharma already HAS the rights to sell these things. That's because David Schmidt has no patent, and failed to apply for patents in any foreign countries. So big pharma is free to make and sell these honey and glycerin patches worldwide right now. Curiously, after more than 4 years they've shown no interest. Good god, what are they waiting for? The shareholders of drug companies should start bringing derivative suits against the Boards of Directors for breach of fiduciary duties to the stockholders for failure to get into the honey/glycerine patch business.

Lifewave's true believers must think that big pharma is unfathomably stupid not to be jumping into this market and crushing David Schmidt into oblivion via competition.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 | 02:15 PM
EDHUK said:

"You were included in the "we skeptics"."

Yeah, I knew that. I was just being Mr. Snark there.

"Your views on this type of scam are well known and much appreciated. You are one of the reasons I keep posting."

Gee, I appreciate that a lot. Thanks.
br d
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 | 03:35 PM
It's pretty simple if you think about it.
Mickey says that all the drugs big Pharma make their huge fortunes on don't actually work, they only specialise in defective products. Ergo, they wouldn't touch a genuine wonder remedy like Lifewave, it could ruin them!

br d
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