The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Mickey Mouse
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 02:19 PM
Cranky,

Do you just like to argue?

There are thousands of people across the world claiming some effect. There are hundreds of athletes, some the best in the world claiming some kind of effect.

Yes some are paid shills and some wish they were paid shills, regardless, if I told them to wear pink lipstick and kiss my arse for better energy, I don't think many would take me up on it.

They, I am quite sure have tried them "quietly" in the backround before publically adorning them. They would not be seen in public with them if they did not "feel" something beneficial.

For me that is enough to at least warrant further research. I tried them and had a noticeable effect as did many of my friends and family.

To me that is established fact and my opinion.

So again I ask the question:
WHY DO THE LIFEWAVE PATCHES "SEEM" TO WORK IN A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAN WOULD BE COMMON IN A PLACEBO CONTROLLED STUDY?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 02:22 PM
Carl Sagan also said:
<b>"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."</b>
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 03:19 PM
"There's a sucker born every minute"
- P. T. Barnum

Even though it's a phrase I would like to use here, things are never quite that simple.

"Showman Barnum admitted during his lifetime that he never said
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 05:37 PM
Mickey Mouse said:

"So again I ask the question:
WHY DO THE LIFEWAVE PATCHES "SEEM" TO WORK IN A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAN WOULD BE COMMON IN A PLACEBO CONTROLLED STUDY?"

OK, this will come as a shock to you, but I want to know if they DO work OBJECTIVELY.

In several locations around America, there are tourist traps known as "Vortexes" or "Mystery Spots." They SEEM to be places where gravity is defied. They are not. They are elaborate optical illusions. The fact that many people are fooled by them in no way changes the reality of the situation.

A LifeWaver would say, "So, you're saying that all the people who have visited the Vortex are stupid?" I would say back, "No, but they ARE wrong about what they experienced."

I asked you what evidence you had to back up the notion that the patches work (or SEEM to work) in a higher percentage of people than would be expected in a placebo controlled study.

You haven't answered that question. I can only guess it's because you CAN'T. So what we're left with here is that you BELIEVE that they SEEM to work better than a placebo. Pretty thin, wouldn't you say?

If there's no objective evidence that the things work, why don't you just admit that?

"Carl Sagan also said:
'Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known'."

True, but "something" does not necessarily refer to the thing or theory that YOU advocate.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 06:37 PM
Mickey writes:

"I have seen people consume high levels of Vit C to overcome cancer they were "told" they would die from. I have seen others try the same thing without effect and who believe that is quackery."

I have seen people consume high levels of Vit C to overcome cancer, they were "told" they would die from, who did die.
I have seen others try the same thing without effect and who believe in it.

What's your point?

"I have seen people die from chemotherapy and radiation when they told this is their only chance of cure."

I have seen people cured by chemotherapy and radiation treatment when they were told it was their only chance of cure.

What's your point?

"I have known many people who were told they had 1 year/6 mths/3 mths to live and "believed it" because their doctor told them and guess what in 1 year/6 mths/3 mths nearly to the day they were DEAD.

I have known people who "DID NOT BELIEVE" in their doctor playing God for them and are still alive today."

I have known many people who were told they had 1 year/6 mths/3 mths to live and "believed it" because their doctor told them and guess what? In 1 year/6 mths/3 mths to the day they were STILL ALIVE!

I have known people who "DID NOT BELIEVE" in their doctor playing God for them, refused treatment, and are now DEAD.

What's your point?

Do you have a point at all?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 06:49 PM
It's certainly been an interesting week on this forum.

True to form, the LifeWavers have attempted to take the discussion away from the original and fundamental questions about the patches.

Politicians do it all the time. Why should they be any different?

Perhaps in the coming week we can concentrate once more on the main question at hand.

Is a man with a two year business degree the "inventor" of a radically new science that, if real, could help millions of people?

Or is he a con man who has fooled many people in to believing he is a brilliant scientist with the ability to "invent" technology in his kitchen and sell via MLM to the world?

I truly wish he was the former because I support advances in science.

However, nothing I have read, researched, or learned from others, leads me to think this can be true.

Common sense and logic point to the most obvious and simplest of explanations.

David Schmidt is a slick con man, who, if we are to believe his claims of Millions in sales, has robbed a great number of people.

The debate continues...
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 09:13 PM
6:48pm Mickey writes:
"in the words of Stephen Colbert the "truthiness" and start trying to understand the "factiness" or "whyiness"

I agree wholeheartedly! Lets look at the cold hard facts of the patches without relying on our own biased feelings!

9:19pm Mickey writes:
"WHY DO THE LIFEWAVE PATCHES "SEEM" TO WORK IN A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAN WOULD BE COMMON IN A PLACEBO CONTROLLED STUDY?"

Hmmmm...you seem to have changed your mind from your earlier comment. First you want facts, then you are willing to base it on your gut feeling about your own experiences. Quite the contradiction, don't you think?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 10:07 PM
Dave Cranky & Razela.....

The imbecelic way in which you write is similar to how I reply. I can place things out of context also and make posts look different.....

For example just look at what Dave (in part stated in his last post)

Dave...What is your point? Do you support Lifewave now? Thats some turnaround....


EDHUK wrote:

It's certainly been an interesting week.....

True. LifeWavers have the original patches.

....a man the "inventor" of a radically new science that help millions of people.

.....he is a brilliant scientist .....

I truly support advances in science.

....I have read, researched, learned from others.... this be true.

Common sense and logic point to the most obvious and simplest of explanations.

David Schmidt is a man who we are to believe....

The debate continues...
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 | 10:55 PM
I'm sorry Mickey. I never meant to take anything you said out of context. I felt like the quotes I chose pretty much summed up what you were saying in each respective post. I apologize if it was meant differently, but it was my understanding of your writing. Please clarify if I misunderstood.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 | 12:39 AM
Mickey Mouse said:

"Dave Cranky & Razela.....

The imbecelic way in which you write is similar to how I reply. I can place things out of context also and make posts look different....."

Would you please supply me with an example of what you're talking about so I can reply meaningfully?

What have I taken out of context?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 | 02:42 PM
Mickey,

Likewise.

Where have I taken your words out of context. Be precise.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 | 11:58 AM
"Dave Cranky & Razela.....

The imbecelic way in which you write is similar to how I reply. I can place things out of context also and make posts look different....."

Well, apparently, Mickey didn't have a problem with us after all unless four days wasn't enough time to carefully examine his/her posts to find where he/she had been quoted out of context.

Go figure!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 | 02:07 PM
It can't be easy to find examples of "out-of-context" quoting around here given that several of us, me included, are pretty careful about attribution.

I've seen many a flame war start over people being misquoted, so I've learned to cut and paste and say right up front who I'm quoting. It saves a LOT of aggravation.

There are people who REALLY want to defend poor "Dr." David Schultz, except not in any meaningful, substantive way.
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 | 08:53 PM
On Mon Jan 01, 2007 | 11:33 PM The Watcher wrote,
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 | 09:39 PM
Listen guys/girls/monkeys/elephants.....

Some of you remind me of a fellow I once knew who liked to argue. He would always have some kind of logical explanation for not believing in a thing. That was fine and his choice.

We got into a discussion about being closed minded....he adamantly argued his corner in how open minded he was blah blah blah......

I asked him to read a certain book which I had already read which shone a different light on his arguement, I asked him to read this book and then we could have an educated discussion about our differences.

He then claimed he would not read the book because he could "NEVER" believe in the crap that I believe in....I quickly reminded him about his open mind....to which he had no reply...he got very angry and left....(I am sure if I had of been smaller in stature he may have tried to pick a fight with me)

I have openly told my story about my experience with LW patches. I have answered any questions posed to me in an honest manor and I remain open to the fact that some changes occur when the body comes in contact with these patches.

I believe it is emitting a frequency....but I can't prove it. People differ on things all the time even when things have been "proven"

I don't take pleasure in answering queries like "Whats your point" if you didn't get it then move on. After re-reading my reply to (br d) many times I still think the point was adequately made.

I am happy to be a part of this discussion, but it seems to me that there is a little bit of small man syndrome here. Someone comes on gives their honest reflection, they are told to not be so stupid, verbally abused and they are scared off. Another victory for the skeptics.

If this gives you pleasure then you are pathetic.

Joel, I ordered some patches for you to try and they arrived yesterday. When we decide how this little experiment can be sucessfully monitored I am more than happy to forward them to you.

I have no agenda, if you ask me a question I will give you my honest opinion. If it is different than yours - so what - if people claim to get results in using these things, who are you to tell them they don't and its just a placebo?

Especially when you have not given them a fair try and base on YOUR truth on your own limited knowledge.

In 2 months Joel will have a "Fair and Balanced" viewpoint. I cannot claim the LW patches will work for him, however going on past test results I am quietly confident.

<b>I wonder if your voice will be respected here again if you happen to notice a difference?</b>
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 | 10:27 PM
"I wonder if your voice will be respected here again if you happen to notice a difference?

I'm wonder if Mickey will keep on defending Lifewave patches if Joel notices no difference when wearing them.
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 | 11:23 PM
Mickey,

Thanks for your post about the patches to try. Did you receive identical looking placebo patches as well, and are those the same placebo patches that LW claims were used in their supposed placebo controlled tests? I've posted my suggestions for how best to do the testing, so at this point I'm waiting for any suggestions or additions that you have. The ball is in your court.

I hope everybody here doesn't take posted comments too personally. I think a lot of people here write primarily for the intended audience of people who want to gather information and opinions about LW before plunking down their hard earned money, so sometimes the comments made are an order of magnitude more blunt than hopefully the same people would be when sharing a beer in person.

Let me ask you a question that I previously asked without getting an answer: What kind of a "researcher" are you? What is your training and experience in that area?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 | 02:02 PM
So, Mickey, you accuse some of us of taking your comments out of context, but when we ask you for some examples of that, you apparently can't provide them.

And you say that WE like to argue for no reason?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 | 05:17 PM
At the risk of sounding argumentative:

Say you arrange to try a batch of patches on what can only be described as a best effort at honest "testing". You get NO results. Will that mean the patches DON'T work. Not necessarily.

You try a batch and get a RESULT. Does this mean the patches DO work. Not necessarily.

This is the problem with well intentioned amateur "testing". On the thread I started a while back, for Claire and her "testing" of the harmony chip, she carried out her own "trial" and found no effect. Did I jump up and down and say that she had proved the product was a scam (even though I do believe that)? I did not.

Today it was announced that David Beckham has signed a five year $250 Million deal to join a US football (soccer) team.

How long will it be before we see the LifeWavers tell us Beckham uses patches (again)?

Now they MUST be real, right?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 | 05:46 PM
Dave,

That is exactly my point:

What exactly would you need as proof?
When is enough proof enough proof?

(I am not claiming there is proof, but what is proof, in your opinion?)

Even so called "proven" things don't work 100% of the time.

"IF" Joel gets results it may change "his" opinion but probably not yours. It does not prove they work or don't work to you but it will open Joels mind up to the posibility that "something" may be going on which he has no control over.

If he feels no changes then it seals things shut forever and drives a few screws in at the same time.

However, going back to my point on chemotherapy and Vit C. If you die from your cancer after trying them DO THEY STILL WORK?

What about the people they CURE. Are their results invalid because it didn't work for you?

As far as David Beckham goes he wore the patches without getting paid for doing so. Why?

Do you think that was his first time wearing them?
Do you think his personal coaches and advisors had tried them before suggesting them to him?
Do you think they got results?

Repeat above question for Lance Armstrong, Strongman Phil Pfister, NBA's Tim Duncan etc.....these guys just didn't happen upon them and freely wear them without monetary gain.

Logic tells me they wore them because they felt different while wearing them. And I am sure they took a heck of a lot of convincing too.

I am not "defending" LW, I am defending my own personal effects and those of my friends and family members who tried LW patches.

I want to know "WHY" people seem to be affected by these patches. It CANNOT logically be a placebo all the time.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 12:52 AM
Mickey wrote, "I want to know 'WHY' people seem to be affected by these patches. It CANNOT logically be a placebo all the time."

First of all, Mickey, it sounds to me like you're relying on "facts" that are fed to you by a pack of proven liars, charlatans, and quacks, with their financial interests directly at stake. So any conclusions you draw from those facts are at least as suspect as the people who have fed to you those supposed facts.

Second, with apologies: "I'd like to know 'WHY' millions of people believe that they have been abducted by aliens from outer space (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction ), or in astrology. It cannot logically be placebo all the time." There are of course many different reasons that people believe in wacky things, or wear silly things while competing, many of which have been discussed on this forum.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 01:07 AM
Dave/EDHUK wrote, "You try a batch and get a RESULT. Does this mean the patches DO work. Not necessarily. This is the problem with well intentioned amateur 'testing'".

I think we can all agree that my amateur testing won't "prove" anything, and that the only testing that will "prove" anything will be independently conducted, double blind placebo controlled studies using a meaningful sample size, whose statistically significant results are actually duplicated by other independent researchers. I believe, however, that my amateur testing will be more scientific and meaningful than any of the laughable "studies" that LifeWave waves around.
UGB
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 03:34 AM
Hi Protectors of Mankind

I need your help!
This lady I know had the Doctors tell her she had to have surgery on her wrist and get her vains strepped out and they tried everything they could the only option was surgery. Well she put these stupid patches on and hasn't had pain for over 4 months after wearing the patches for just 6 hours.
Can one of you guys please contact her for me and tell her she still has Pain and that she got scamed.

Oh ya and can you talk to the guy last night who said he had pain in his back for several months. I put these silly patches on the back of his shirt and his pain went away.

My Placebo is running close to 90%

And for whatever one of you tried the patches
Oh wait your wife tried the patches, give me a break what kind of man are you? You come on this waste of time every day thinking you are saving the world from these dangers patches and you finally get the nuts to try them and then you give them to your wife. Your a bigger clown then I thought!

Crank
I have proof everytime I test this on somebody. Where is your proof they don't work. You have a few stories from some unhappy expatchers.
With anything you will have some unhappy campers does that mean they don't work.
You are just a trash talker. Sometimes clever and sometimes not so clever.
And your still asking for test resaults have you not looked at the site?

Edhuk
You are just talking the same garbage page after page ya your clever in your trash talk but you haven't even tried the patches.
Step up get a nut sack and try em maybe you will get lucky they will damage you and then you can come after all the Mind controled Lifewavers.
I seen you had a story from someone who said they didn't work, I don't doubt that the patches didn't work for that person there are several reasons why they might not have worked. That person might have been dehydrated, they may have been very toxic, placement might have been wrong.
Thank you for the link to the Dr David. I can see that on you link but looked threw taht patent and I can't find it in there I am not say it's not there but I can't find it.
But I am glad I spent the time to read that patent it's very interesting.

And for whatever one of you wants to talk trash because I mispelled something or wrong puncuation, do me a favor don't waste my time or yours. I don't care you got the idea and you can Kiss my lily white ass.

13 year old Son
Sorry you had to see that but I am sure you hear a lot worse things at Junior high.

Oh and for you guys worshipping Randi
that guys more full of shit then you are.

You guys want to talk trash then get the patches do what you are asked to do and give them an honest try, if you do that and they don't work then you have all the credabilty you need to talk in my book. But till then your just a bunch of trash talkers.

You guys have way to much time on your hands.

If you guys can't afford shipping my offer still stands I will pay for your shipping just let me know. But you have to come out from behind your wife or your son who don't want to run track anymore.
Whoever that is should be ashamed of yourself as well, You have a dangorus product like lifewave and your going to give them to your son to try and run around a track.
They have agency for people that put there kids at risk like that it's called CPS and one of you prodectors of mankind should be protecting that kid.

God bless you all (oh that's right Randi says there is no god)
UGB
http://www.lifewave.com/ugbenergy

PS if your ever in Nor Cal let me know we can get togeather and talk some trash i'll buy.
PSS 911 was an inside job?
Mickey Mouse
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 10:46 AM
UGB,

I don't know what you are trying to achieve here in this forum. I am assuming you came on here to argue your case, were verbally abused and now have a rather large "chip" on your shoulder??

Coming back on here occasionally sticking your tounge out saying "Neh neh neh neh neh" doesn't really give you alot of credibility and really only fuels the fires of skeptics.

I beleive you when you say you got the results, but really, you need to be a little more mature in your approach.

As Eleanor Roosevelt once said:
<b>
UGB
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 02:09 PM
I accept your advise and consider it as wisdom and will always take it into consideration.

But as I see the above it's a whole lot of facts and a few attemps at some humor.

And please let me again applogize for offending with my post. Seems like everytime I say anything around hear I offened someone from a different planet, last time Jupiter and now Pluto

Edhuk I sure hope your from earth.

Be blessed guys & gals & 13yr olds.

UGB
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 02:23 PM
UGB said:

"And for whatever one of you tried the patches
Oh wait your wife tried the patches, give me a break what kind of man are you? You come on this waste of time every day thinking you are saving the world from these dangers patches and you finally get the nuts to try them and then you give them to your wife. Your a bigger clown then I thought!"

Well, you've certainly won ME over. Did it ever occur to you that I gave them to my wife because she has a condition that would allegedly respond to the patches' magic? No, you're FAR more interested in hurling irrelevant gratuitous insults. Besides, shouldn't the patches have worked on my wife as well as they would have (according to you) on ME? Are they gender-specific now?

"And your still asking for test resaults have you not looked at the site?"

Are you referring to the non-scientifically-conducted nonsense on the LifeWave site? Let me ask YOU: where are the new test results we have been promised for about a year now? And how about those "endorsements" by universities that LifeWave had to retract after the schools found out about them?

"Oh and for you guys worshipping Randi
that guys more full of shit then you are."

And I thought WE were the ones who make accusations without proof. Apparently you haven't yet figured out that name-calling and ad hominem attacks don't prove your case.

"And for whatever one of you wants to talk trash because I mispelled something or wrong puncuation, do me a favor don't waste my time or yours. I don't care you got the idea and you can Kiss my lily white ass."

I understand that an illiterate would be defensive about not being able to communicate better, but to the rest of us who actually know how to use the English language, it's indicative of your overall intellect. I'm not trying to be insulting here, but YOU brought it up.

Why should anyone take you seriously when you admit you can't write at an acceptable level and tell us to kiss your "lily white ass"?
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 03:29 PM
UGB:

You wrote, "Thank you for the link to the Dr David. I can see that on you link but looked threw taht patent and I can't find it in there I am not say it's not there but I can't find it."

I emailed to you the provisional patent application filed by DS. The cover letter (page 2 of that file) is where DS claims to be "Dr. David Schmidt" at two different places. But if you couldn't see the "Dr. David Schmidt" part that was staring up at you in black and white, it doesn't surprise me that neither can you "see" what a scam this whole LifeWave thing is.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 03:49 PM
UGB, unless you have something to offer in this forum, I suggest you leave. Your posts contain nothing relevant and name-calling is not going to get you far.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 05:22 PM
Randi is making changes to his Million Dollar Challenge:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,72482-0.html

I haven't gone to Randi's website yet, so I don't know if or how this affects any LifeWave applicants for the money.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 05:54 PM
"I don't doubt that the patches didn't work for that person there are several reasons why they might not have worked. That person might have been dehydrated, they may have been very toxic, placement might have been wrong."

We haven't seen this explanation before have we guys?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 06:26 PM
EDHUK said:

"We haven't seen this explanation before have we guys?"

Or:

There was a skeptic in the room, giving off negative vibrations.

Or:

The moon was in the wrong phase.

Or:

The user didn't believe in the effectiveness of the patches strongly enough.

It's FUN to make up stuff, isn't it, LifeWavers? Since you operate outside the laws of physics, there are NO rules for you guys, allowing you to make any silly excuse for the inability of little plastic patches containing molasses and glycerine to "impart energy" to people.

By the way, what's the current official explanation for how the patches allegedly work? It isn't "like a cell phone communicating with the body's cells" anymore, right? Is it still "heat and cold," or is there a THIRD rationalization now?
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 06:43 PM
EDHUK said, ""We haven't seen this explanation before have we guys?"

My all-time favorite fabricated explanation was Dr. Lauren DeRock's explanation in her horse study paper (which turned out NOT to be peer reviewed after all) explaining why some horses didn't react to the patches, namely, that those horses "suffer from reverse polarity." That was a hoot.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 08:19 PM
A little about the MDC changes:

Quoting from this week's James Randi's Swift

As of April 1, 2007, we will require two major qualifications of all those who will be eligible. First, any applicant will be required to have a media profile. By that, we mean that there must be some media recognition
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 | 10:05 PM
UGB said:
"This lady I know had the Doctors tell her she had to have surgery on her wrist and get her vains strepped out and they tried everything they could the only option was surgery. Well she put these stupid patches on and hasn't had pain for over 4 months after wearing the patches for just 6 hours.
Can one of you guys please contact her for me and tell her she still has Pain and that she got scamed."

Your powers of logic and reason are almost as low as your level of literacy. I'm at a loss to figure out how you can criticize us for being skeptical using this story. Lifewave patches claim to give a person more energy. But your friend puts them on and feels a reduction in pain? Please explain how instructing cells to burn more fat can relieve pain. If that's not a reason to suspect the placebo effect, I don't know what is.

If this is somehow an unexpected benefit of the patches then why do we not hear users also say they feel less pain during athletic activity. Does David Beckham not feel pain when tackled by another player? Do his legs not hurt near the end of a match? If an Olympic skier broke his leg after a wipeout, would he feel no pain? There are no reports from Lifewave about this. Can Ronnie Coleman lift weights without being inhibited by the pain usually associated with a heavy workout? Nothing in the Lifewave or Ronnie Coleman ads. Would a boxer be able to keep going after a solid blow from his opponent because he felt no pain from it? Again nothing mentioned. Why would Lifewave omit this amazing benefit from their literature? To me, it sounds more like the user experiences whatever result they desire.

If your friend's results are real and not related to any placebo effect, we should expect her pain to come back if she stopped using them. Have you tried this? We would also expect her to be able to know if she was given a fake patch without her knowledge. Have you tried this? It seems to me your friend is in a good position to win $1,000,000! "With this pair I still feel pain, but with this pair the pain goes away!" In a matter of minutes she should be able to go through a pile of patches and and separate the real ones from the fakes with close to 100% accuracy. By all means, please give us her contact information. It's not every day you get a chance to make $1,000,000 so easily.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 12:21 AM
Joel said:

"My all-time favorite fabricated explanation was Dr. Lauren DeRock's explanation in her horse study paper (which turned out NOT to be peer reviewed after all) explaining why some horses didn't react to the patches, namely, that those horses "suffer from reverse polarity." That was a hoot."

Man, talk about your classic 1950's sci-fi movie pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo! When I watch old sci-fi movies and it gets to the point where they're trying to figure out how to stop the monster, I always yell, "Reverse the polarity!" You'd be surprised how often that turns out to be the exact method used to save the world. It SOUNDS good, right?
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 10:59 AM
Based on that one article, I would think that lifewave would still be eligible for the prize because it does have some media attention. Plus, it seems the new restrictions are to separate the sane from those with mental illnesses. In the case of lifewave, David Schmidt does not have a mental illness. He seems to fit the profile of a person who knows what they're doing is a fake, but does it anyways. The only thing I would think wouldn't fit, is that the person dealing with the JREF would not be DS, but a random user of some sort. That may not sit well under the new rules.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 11:14 AM
James Randi has posted recently on this thread asking LifeWave to follow through on the challenge.

He's as sick as the rest of us reading the inane drivel about this hoax product. A properly conducted test would take care of the problem.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 11:24 AM
Now on page 186 and fast approaching 200 pages, I continue to wonder if we are not helping Schmidt and his scam.

Perhaps some people will think in terms of "No smoke without fire" while others will only read a page or two of supporters statements.

The harmony chip thread was short lived. Haven't heard much about that lately. Is it because of the crazy looking Yorkshireman?

LifeWave, with website #3 may look credible to some. A first timer won't know about the change in how the energy patches are supposed to work.

Once upon a time it was a radio transmitter concept. Now, it's patches heating and cooling to induce fat burning. What next I wonder?

I can only respectfully suggest that first timers take a cold hard look at this "miracle" and concentrate on the "fairy tale" aspect.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 01:19 PM
Razela said:

"Based on that one article, I would think that lifewave would still be eligible for the prize because it does have some media attention.

"In the case of lifewave, David Schmidt does not have a mental illness. He seems to fit the profile of a person who knows what they're doing is a fake, but does it anyways. The only thing I would think wouldn't fit, is that the person dealing with the JREF would not be DS, but a random user of some sort. That may not sit well under the new rules."

Having now read what Randi says on his website about the changes to the Challenge, I think you're correct.
cherry
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 03:59 PM
Why is it that people like to talk so much smack about things they don't understand and have never even experienced for themselves? It's because they are ignorant, suspicious, pretentious, and have low self esteem. As Socrates said all those years ago, only the wise can admit they don't know. Don't knock it until you've tried it, it simply makes you look ignorant.
the watcher
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 05:10 PM
well said cherry.......
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 05:24 PM
cherry said:

"Why is it that people like to talk so much smack about things they don't understand and have never even experienced for themselves? It's because they are ignorant, suspicious, pretentious, and have low self esteem. As Socrates said all those years ago, only the wise can admit they don't know. Don't knock it until you've tried it, it simply makes you look ignorant."

Cherry, everything you said in your posting has been addressed REPEATEDLY in this thread. You obviously didn't bother to read much of it, which has lead you to make "points" that have been dealt with over and over again. If you do not know the meaning of "ad hominem attack," I would suggest you research it.

Since you are a LifeWave advocate, please answer these two simple questions for me.

First, which of "Dr." David Schmidt's explanations for how LifeWave works do you believe, the "communicating with the body's cells" explanation or the "heat and cold" explanation? PLEASE do not tell us that the patches communicate with the wearer's body via heat and cold. That would conflict with what Schmidt says.

Secondly, why has the explanation for how they work changed? Doesn't the inventor KNOW how they work?

If you believe what LifeWave is a REAL product, then you should be able to easily answer those two questions.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 05:48 PM
Cherry says: "Why is it that people like to talk so much smack about things they don't understand and have never even experienced for themselves?"

Oh, you mean like reading at least a good portion of the thread before posting?

Otherwise you might realize that the patches have been tried by at least one skeptic on the forum, and that the rest of us have done ample research on the product.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 | 06:11 PM
Cherry

"Why is it that people like to talk so much smack about things they don't understand...?

Your statement implies you DO understand all about the science behind the patches.

In YOUR own words, NOT LifeWave's website drivel, please explain the science behind the patches.

I look forward to the very FIRST explanation about the patch technology (as you do comprehend it) that will help us all understand.

Thank you Cherry.

Dave
the watcher
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 03:00 AM
Cranky media guy and edhuk... now i gotta tell ya.. you two seriously crack me up..... the constant flow of ignorance that comes from you two.. its truly a wonder.....

Cranky / EDHUK... do you believe that your computer is a REAL product ?? that when you press your power button ,, it will turn on and perform all the miraculous functions that you expect it to ? If you do ,, than you should be able to EASILY explain in great detail all the scientific facts , on a quantum level , of each of its many functions...... please do so for us now................ how about now ?????? .......... um..... now ????.........Cranky ....EDHUK.... you there ????.....Just because someone does not posess the technical knowledge to be able to explain the workings of something complex ,, does not mean that they do not posses the basic knowledge of knowing whether something works for them or not...... so please stop with your idiotic dribble.... its an insult for any of us with half a brain...

The human body is very complex people... with all of our accumulated knowledge science has obtained in the last 100 years... we have still only scratch the surface of what is truly taking place inside and outside of us....

If the patches are working.. and i have used them and know that they are... it cannot be explained in any short set of terms or ONE set of explanations... can you understand that fact ??? there are MULTIPLE physiological effects happening AT THE SAME TIME.... giving one explanation of how something complex works.. and than another ,, in no way debunks or discredits the first explanation.. it simply ADDS to it.... its an attempt to explain in small steps what is taking place in a complex enviorment.... having communication with cells ,, .. or a heating and cooling effect.. or any other explanation LifeWave has tried to provide in terms that non scientific normal run-of-the-mill people can understand,, are all attempts to broaden our understanding of what is taking place in simple easy to understand terms.....

But ,, alas... i have been following this forum for many many months.... and as sad as it is... i realize this all is falling of deaf ears.. and fingers will be flapping on keyboards in a zealous retaliation to these simple and true words with more of the same boring and generic responses that i have come to expect from the regs here.......

Take care and God bless ............
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 03:08 AM
I came across this interesting link from MastersTrack.
http://www.masterstrack.com/

They are an organization of competitive track and field athletes over the age 35. One of them has done a fairly well conceived amateur study of Lifewave Energy Patchs similar to what we are proposing for Joel. The single test subject was given "real" patches and placebos to use while running a set distance. Where the placebos came from or how real they look was not mentioned. I haven't had time to go over results in detail yet so I've given the URL below so others can study it if they want.

http://www.masterstrack.com/train/patch.pdf
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 07:24 AM
the watcher

I have to tell you that you both crack me up and keep reminding me that this SCAM is all about THE MONEY.

You are as much a con man and thief as David Schmidt.

Your comments have been posted by others MANY times already. That's the problem with a thread. People generally only read this page and maybe the last couple, hence everyone's repetition.

"If the patches are working.. and i have used them and know that they are..."

Your level of understanding is clear for all to see...NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA. You've got NOTHING to defend this SCAM except your trite words about those who point out how much of a CON MAN/WOMAN you are.

I can agree with just ONE of your words.

SIMPLE.

Sums you up nicely.

Simple, but still a thief and a con man/woman by perpetuating this scam as being real science.

Your logic:

The human body is complex...therefore the patches work as stated.

The sun comes up each day and sets at the end of the day...therefore the patches are real.

My computer enables me to post this message...therefore the patches are real.

As usual, you have brought NOTHING new to the table. At least on that point you continue to be 100% reliable.

God does not bless con men/women.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 07:27 AM
the watcher

"...its an insult for any of us with half a brain..."

My apologies. I didn't notice the mention of your disability until now.

This explains everything.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 07:37 AM
Since the product literature makes claims of a subjective nature (
the watcher
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 10:07 AM
LOL..Dave.. i want to thank you for ,, as always ,, making my " case in point "

If anything ,, i look forward to getting a good chuckle from the mind set in which you fuction...


You poor poor man you..
the watcher
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 10:33 AM
by the way Davey... i am NOT a distributor ,, or endorse the patches in any way...

I'm merely someone blessed with a head filled with more than solid bone..... which is more than i can say for some here......


Now ,,, run along and " Google " something will you ???


There's a good chap...........
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 11:52 AM
Cherry wrote, "Why is it that people like to talk so much smack about things they don't understand and have never even experienced for themselves?"

. . . like, for example, the placebo effect?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 01:11 PM
the watcher

"... i am NOT a distributor ,, or endorse the patches in any way..."

Of course you're not. Of course you don't.

You're just an innocent voyeur trying to help out.

Right!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 02:55 PM
the watcher said:

"Just because someone does not posess the technical knowledge to be able to explain the workings of something complex ,, does not mean that they do not posses the basic knowledge of knowing whether something works for them or not...... so please stop with your idiotic dribble.... its an insult for any of us with half a brain..."

The difference between a computer and LifeWave is that there are MANY people who CAN explain exactly how a computer works, including some people who actually INVENTED some of what makes them work.

NO ONE can explain LifeWave, including, apparently, their "inventor" (since his "explanation" of their operation has changed significantly in recent months.)

Although LifeWavers don't seem to want to answer this simple question, I'll ask it again, of you" Which contradictory explanation given by LifeWave's "inventor" do YOU believe: the "communicating with the body's cells" explanation or the "heat and cold" one?

After you've answered that simple question, please tell me WHY you believe one over the other.
the watcher
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 03:38 PM
please explain in specific detail , why you beleave those to two explanations contradict one another ,, and than perhaps i will answer your question.....
the watcher
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 03:58 PM
The facts ,, Mr. media man ,, is that the explanation of the operation hasn't "changed" ... its been added upon... but i understand that to much for you to take in... its ok... were all at differant levels of understanding in this life....

I do believe I'm officially changing yours and edhuks name to... Bevis and Butthead....

Its more befitting.......

as always.. take care........
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 04:25 PM
the watcher

You really should be in politics, but even there they require more than the half a brain you proudly claim to possess.

English isn't your first language I presume, so we must overlook your atrocious spelling.

I cannot overlook your continued promotion of this scam.

There is NO product.

The facts have been conclusively laid out in this thread. That you have chosen not to read the facts is not my problem.

That you find enjoyment in childish name calling is also not my problem but rather gives us insight into your personality which is borderline at best.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 04:32 PM
A:

LifeWave energy patches are novel nanoscale semiconducting biomolecular antennas, that when placed in the oscillating bioelectromagnetic field of the body, resonate at frequencies in unison with certain biomolecules in the cells and signal specific metabolic pathways to accelerate fat metabolism.

B:

Our Energy Enhancer patches are constructed from organic materials and that when placing the patches on the body produce both a heating and cooling effect. Clinical studies have shown that this effect increases energy and the burning of fat.

Is it A or is it B?
the watcher
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 04:46 PM
its both Butthead...

Now please.. dident i asked you to run along and Google something??.... you have wasted enough time of this silly thread ...

take beavis with you.......

Bye bye now.......
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 | 05:59 PM
the watcher said:

"The facts ,, Mr. media man ,, is that the explanation of the operation hasn't "changed" ... its been added upon... but i understand that to much for you to take in... its ok... were all at differant levels of understanding in this life...."

Ad hominem attacks, the last refuge of the uninformed. If you can't answer a few simple questions about what YOU think about LifeWave, you really should re-examine your support for it.

As EDHUK pointed out above, the two Official Explanations of how LifeWave supposedly works are NOT compatible, nor is the second one an expansion on the first. They are contradictory.

The Official Story has changed, leading us inevitably to the question, "Doesn't 'Dr.' Schmidt know how his own 'invention' works?"

I'm sure you will continue to engage in name calling, but that will NOT convince anyone that your little adhesive plastic patches are anything other than exactly that.
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