The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 01:23 AM
hcmomof4 said:

"How do inert ingredients become used up?"

Duh, the tiny, invisible gerbils get all tired and lay down more.

Haven't you figured this out yet? As EDHUK said, if the LifeWavers say they work a certain way, even if that certain way violates what we know about the physical universe, they just DO.
Rich Phaigh
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 01:03 PM
I was the massage therapist for Athletics West Track Club from 1981 through 1986. Athletics West was a Nike Track Club sponsering some of the world's greatest track and field competitors of that era. Alberto Salazar, Mary Slaney, Joan Benoit, Mac Wilkens, and several other Olympians, World and American record holders wore our colors.

Our fame at the time was a magnet for every new performance enhancing "miracle" that came along. Guess what, none of those products worked and they aren't around anymore. As a result, I became the biggest skeptic of these types of products that there is.

So when my wife, Connie, came to me claiming that she did a strength endurance test on these patches I didn't even want to hear about it. She challanged me to do as many push-ups as I could, put on the patches, and do a second set 10 minutes later. I told her she was crazy. It wasn't possible to take a muscle group to absolute failure and do more push-ups 10 minutes later as she had claimed. Absolutely, no question, impossible. I wanted to prove her wrong in the worst way.

Being sorely out of shape, I could only manage 30 perfect pushups. My arms were shaking badly the last two reps, the final one took a long time. Absolute failure, I couln't have done another if my life depended on it. Ten minutes later, wearing these stupid pathches, I did 40 perfect push-ups and could have done a couple more. I still can't believe it. There's no way it could have happened, but it happened anyway.
Want some Research?
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 02:17 PM
Rich,

You have experienced what many thousands of people have experienced and I have witnessed by testing elite athletes using similar protocols.

This forum has been corrupted by extremely negative individuals who will be quick to bash you as an individual.

The Lifewave energy patches will never be a viable product for these type of closeminded people. They also don't believe that chiropractors & acupuncturists are viable treatment modalities.

Thanks for sharing your testimonial. There is no question that the patches work as advertised.


Hardcoremomof4, Yes the patches do expire as the body heat causing them to resonate (vibrate) eventually breaking down the molecular antennas (small crystal formations) within the patches, usually after 10-12 hours.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 02:20 PM
I've thought of another probably really stupid question. How come the LifeWave guys aren't switching to Harmony Chips? Since the chips work on the same principle, "There's no way it could have happened, but it happened anyway", but they do so much more than the patches, wouldn't both the greater amount of money selling them, and the greater good to all mankind, be in distributing the chips?
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 02:25 PM
"This forum has been corrupted by extremely negative individuals who will be quick to bash you as an individual."

Uhhhh... this forum was created for the very individuals you're accusing of corrupting it... (except hardly any individuals get bashed quickly. They have to prove they deserve it first.)
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 05:13 PM
Rich Phaigh
in Eugene, OR

"There's no way it could have happened, but it happened anyway."

What do you think are the possible explanations?

Cheers,
Dave
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 05:40 PM
Want Some Research? said:

"The Lifewave energy patches will never be a viable product for these type of closeminded people. They also don't believe that chiropractors & acupuncturists are viable treatment modalities."


Boy, you are SO right about our negativity, Want. Not only do we not believe in chiropractors and acupuncturists, we also don't believe in fairies, elves, leprechauns, witches and voodoo doctors. Negative, negative, negative, that's us.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 07:07 PM
CMG

Of course, the usual tactical word play being used by our current LifeWave "believers" has been employed by other "believers" in a similar fashion in this thread...time, after time, after...

Let's hope the new poster from Eugene, OR, can enter into a rational dialogue without automatically feeling they are being "bashed".

Cheers,
Dave
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 07:15 PM
I've been away for a while. Call me a pessimist but I knew that when I returned, this forum would be entertaining yet another poster who claimed to be the world's most skeptical person until they tried Lifewave patches and became an instant believer in things paranormal. (I say paranormal because the claims made by Lifewave defy known scientific laws.)

So now we have Rich, towel boy for some track and field club who thinks that qualifies him to do scientific research. He does a 10 minute test on himself and makes an instant determination that the patches work, that he knows more than all the world's physicists, and we doubters should consider ourselves proven wrong.

***Yawn***

Sorry Rich, but the real world requires more than that. This is to eliminate the remote chance that someone would try to deceive science and consumers for monetary gain. I know that no salesperson would ever do that, but even so, we have to be sure. That's were proper scientific testing comes in.

It has already been pointed out there may have been other reasons for the alleged result and some simple tests should enable you to prove what you so strongly believe. The easiest way for you to do this is to apply for the <a href="http://www.randi.org/research/index.html">JREF $1,000,000 Paranormal Challenge</a>. They would be more than happy to accomodate you. When you win (and I think you will since since you seem so certain) you would have world-wide bragging rights and one million dollars in the bank.

This is something not one of the dozens of believers who have posted here in the past have had the guts to try. Perhaps they don't believe in it as strongly as you do. So why not put all us doubters in our place? We await your application with great anticipation.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 07:18 PM
Too late Dave, I've already bashed him! Sorry. But please feel free to carry on rationally.
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 08:05 PM
The comment by Want Some Research (WSR), "Yes the patches do expire as the body heat causing them to resonate (vibrate) eventually breaking down the molecular antennas (small crystal formations) within the patches, usually after 10-12 hours." raises some interesting questions.

1. Skin temperature is, I believe, about 90 degrees F. WSR, what procedures does LifeWave use to ensure that its patches never experience temperatures near 90 degrees at any time during manufacture, storage, or shipment? Do they use only refrigerated UPS trucks for delivery? Do the boxes have large bold warnings that the patches should be kept in the refrigerator until they are used?

2. If it's temperature that breaks the patches down, wouldn't people be able to use the patches for many days if they simply placed a thermal insulating layer between their skin and the patches? Wouldn't Lifewave patches be much better products if they came with those thermal insulating layers?
Want some Research?
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 08:49 PM
Captain Al - I thought you left because someone exposed you on this forum a little earlier. You wonder why people refuse to get into informative posts on this forum. You are an idiot!! The Randi thing has been addressed many times on this forum. It is not legit and you know it. Why don't you go back under the rock you crawled out from under and go back to worshipping Mr. Randi.
Want some Research
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 08:51 PM
CMG,

Great comeback. Boy you are full of wisdom. We are in the 2000's now CMG. There is more to life than 5 feet in front of your face.
Want some Research?
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 | 09:24 PM
Joel,

I actually have a lot of respect for your posts. At least you don't keep bringing up the same old shit about Bob Burtis and James Randi.....the two most untrusted, biased, sources known to mankind.

You pose a great question about the patches activating with heat.I should have been more explicit with what I meant by heat. The term
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 01:12 AM
Want Some Research? said:

"I actually have a lot of respect for your posts. At least you don't keep bringing up the same old shit about Bob Burtis and James Randi.....the two most untrusted, biased, sources known to mankind."

Gee, you posit a complete theory about CERTAIN KINDS OF heat affecting the little adhesive plastic patches while OTHER kinds of heat (i.e. the kind we all know about) do not and then you turn around and call Bob Burtis and James Randi "the two most untrusted, biased, sources known to mankind."

Hmm, since you make these statements about FIR affecting the patches, you of course have some...oh, what's the word? Oh, right, EVIDENCE--for those statements, right? I mean, you wouldn't just pull something like that out of your ass and state it as a fact, right? So, where can we read some SCIENTIFIC studies about this fascinating some heat affects the patches/some heat doesn't theory?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 01:19 AM
Want Some Research said:

"CMG,

Great comeback. Boy you are full of wisdom. We are in the 2000's now CMG. There is more to life than 5 feet in front of your face."

Ooh, burn. Well, you sure showed ME, didn't you? Listen, it all comes down to this: If you're going to propose that little adhesive plastic patches filled with glycerin and molasses can do things that physics say are impossible, the burden of proof is on YOU. YOU have to PROVE that they do what you claim they can do. No amount of personal insults and obfuscation can change that.

I fully realize that in response you will give me some more nonsense in the same vein as your comment about me not being able to see five feet in front of me (whatever that's supposed to mean) but that also will not prove that your patches can do the impossible. If you COULD prove that they work (and, no, personal testimonials are NOT proof), you would do so, if only to shut us up. You can't so you don't and instead engage in personal insults. That speaks volumes.

I stand by my previous comment about leprechauns and fairies. LifeWave is every bit as real as them. After all, I can direct you to books that contain personal testimonials of encounters with them, so they MUST be real, right?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 01:22 AM
Want Some Research? said:

"The Randi thing has been addressed many times on this forum. It is not legit and you know it."

What aspect(s) of Randi's Million Dollar Challenge are you questioning? Have you bothered to go to Randi's site where he addresses most, if not all, of the negative claims about it?

PLEASE tell me it isn't the old "Randi doesn't have the money" thing. I'd LIKE to be able to think more of you than that.
Want some Research?
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 06:32 AM
CMG,

Please refer to the previous page for my proof that the patches increase stamina.
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 11:45 AM
Want:

"Light and heat are forms of electromagnetic radiation."

That's not true. Heat is a measure of total kinetic energy at the molecular level. Heat is not radiation. Any object above zero degrees Kelvin will, however, emit radiation according to Stefan-Boltzman's law. The frequencies and spectral distribution of EM radiation emitted depends primarily on the temperature of the object, not whether it's a human body or a UPS truck or the walls of a cardboard Lifewave box or anything else. So your explanation as to why the patches do not need to be protected against deterioration due to heat is false, and an environment at 90 F should have pretty much the same deteriorating effect on the patches as a body whose skin temperature is 90 F (if indeed the sugar and glycerine molecules in the patch deteriorate due to IR radiation produced by a human body at 90F, which wouldn't actually be true).

Not a bad try though for somebody who probably never had a university level class in Physics or Heat Transfer. Who gave you that explanation? I would expect pseudoscience like that from David Schmidt. Haltiwanger should have done better though, because to be a doctor he probably had to have taken at least one physics course, although that was probably a long time ago for him.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 11:46 AM
"Please refer to the previous page for my proof that the patches increase stamina."

That should be good enough "proof" shouldn't it?

You say they work...so they work. Simple.

Magical thinking at its finest.

Dave
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 11:56 AM
For Want of Some Research said:
"Captain Al - I thought you left because someone exposed you on this forum a little earlier."

Exposed? Are you saying that because someone found an old address of mine on the web that I'm now "exposed"? That takes about as much research skill as you used to try and explain these phoney patches.

For your information, heat is not a form of electromagnetic radiation. It is thermal energy. Where did you get your physics knowledge? By watching roadrunner and coyote cartoons?

Another tip: Any matter above absolute zero emits energy over the entire electromagnetic spectrum, including infrared. The frequency of the bulk of this energy is determined by the temperature of that matter. Since there are objects everywhere, including some parts of the UPS truck, that emit a significant amount of broadband energy in the infrared part of the spectrum, Lifewave patches would be worn down just sitting around anywhere. Of course Lifewave never took this into account when they were composing the fictional scientific explanation for their scam. They just assumed people like you wouldn't know enough to check it.

By the way, here is the <a href="http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=43">link to the log of JREF Challenge applications</a> and the correspondence of their claims. This is the challenge that you say doesn't exist. All these people who have applied really believe they have some paranormal powers are trying to prove it. In your case, you know you're scamming people with a bogus product so you keep denying the existance of the prize because you know you can't prove anything. At least these applicants have the honesty and integrity to put their money where their mouth's are.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 11:56 AM
PROOF:

"evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth."

So, realistically, you have given this thread information that you CAN WIN the James Randi Million Dollars.

Please do not follow the line of reasoning that somehow the challenge does not apply to the patches.

The LifeWave company, and the energy patches, were given the all clear to demonstrate the effectiveness of the patches as per their claims.

The company started the process but backed out. Let's not even bother to discuss why LifeWave backed out.

Please take your proof and WIN the Million bucks. I would be truly delighted to see someone win the money and you already KNOW that you can.

Please keep in touch as the process toward the money unfolds.

Best of luck,
Dave
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 12:01 PM
Careful Dave. Once Mr. For Want of Some Research finds out your mailing address, he will have proof you are wrong.
WSR
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 12:37 PM
This is why the patches come in mylar boxes
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 12:38 PM
Captain Al.

Let's not forget, I own a tropical island and I don't have an address, other than "1000 acres of paradise".

Oops!

Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 12:40 PM
WSR

"This is why the patches come in mylar boxes"

So, in essence, the box costs more than the contents!

Dave
wsr
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 12:45 PM
I really don't know Dave and I don't care.
Joe
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 02:22 PM
We've all heard the excuse of why the patches don't work when people try them (wrong placement of patches on the body and such). I think the fact that the patches come in a special box should be another excuse they should use. If the patches don't work, Lifewave should just state that the person left them outside the special box too long exposing them to heat and deterioration.

Has this excuse already been used?
Does Lifewave tell users to keep them in the box?

Dave, I think all costs associated with Lifewave (shipping, distribution, selling, G&A, manufacturing facilities (including his home), rent, utilities, etc.) cost more than the contents of the patches. I'm betting a $1.00 worth of contents goes a long ways. Wrap some trash in a pretty package with a nice bow and you can sell anything!
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 02:55 PM
Want Some Research must have been the Wicked Witch of the West in a previous life. You all threw water on him and now he seems to be shrinking...
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 03:12 PM
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.

"You all threw water on him..."

Let's not forget "you all" is supposed to be one person. Is it me? I forget.

I guess it's frustrating for LifeWaver salesmen on this HOAX forum. They don't seem to get a break.

Surely if they make a claim we should all believe it to be true and buy the product. Isn't that the American way?

By the way, I met a very nice lady today who showed me a small amount of gold in the bottom of a coffee cup. Apparently the company she sells for has this amazing device that you dip into hot coffee. Switch on the power and in 5 minutes small particles of gold develop on the side of the cup.

Amazing stuff and she was so nice. It looks too good to be true but she showed me some very impressive reports and testimonials from people all over the world who are making good money at this.

I think I might just try it. It's only $250 and there is a money back guarantee.

Cheers,
Dave
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 03:14 PM
I see Joel also spotted Want's lack of knowledge of elementry physics the same as I did and posted a reply before me. I apologize for the repetitive answer. Meanwhile Want is probably scrambling for advice on how to answer from his physics mentor, Dr. David Schmidt. You remember him. He's the one with the 2 year business diploma.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 03:26 PM
Bob at WWSN has had time to read the wonderful NEW studies now on the LifeWave Mark 3 website.

http://www.hawaiionline.biz/lwresearch2.htm

Thanks Bob, always a good read!

EDH UK
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 03:34 PM
"Let's not forget "you all" is supposed to be one person. Is it me? I forget."

I am frequently confused as to which one of you is all of you... You/he/they do it very well though, with different writing styles and everything!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 04:15 PM
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
Member

Let's not forget the great "conspiracy" against David Schmidt as witnessed by the pages of this thread.

Vast minions of "paid" perpetrators beavering away at computers around the clock (or on the beach).

DS doesn't care. Why should he? He'll continue to make his cash while the cow is still standing in the field.

A real inventor with the product of the millenium would have been in court a long time ago getting his just revenge against the "paid" naysayers.

Dave
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 | 07:30 PM
Want:

I do not mention the JREF challenge in my posts not because I don't think the points raised in regard to it are legitimate arguments, but because those points are already being made by others, and I choose to contribute fresh material.

I will, however, add one fresh note regarding JREF. Even if you or any other posters had any evidence that the JREF challenge is not legitimate, which it appears that you do not, you might be interested in knowing that public offers like the JREF challenge are enforceable in court as binding contracts. See, e.g., the case of Mermelstein v. Institute for Historical Review (IHR), Case No C 356 542 (Cal. Sup. Ct. 1985) discussed in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Mermelstein and http://shamash.org/holocaust/denial/mervsIHR.txt . In that case IHR, a holocaust denial organization, made a public offer of $50,000 to anyone who could prove that any Jews were gassed in Nazi concentration camps. When Mermelstein proved it to the court's satisfaction, the court entered judgment in favor of Mermelstein for $90,000.

So if you or anybody else think that you can prove that LifeWave patches have the effects claimed for them, you'd be entitled to collect your $1 million via court judgment even if the Randi foundation renegs. That makes the $90,000 won by Mermelstein look like a pittance, doesn't it?

Go get your $1 million.

And I'll ask you again: Who told you that heat was a form of electromagnetic radiation?
WSR
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 07:18 AM
I will not even consider going to JREF. This has been addressed numerous times on this forum.

As far as heat being a form of electromagnetic radiation I have learned this through quantam physics and more specifically Joseph Newman's fundamental book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 10:07 AM
Well it figures. WSR gets his information from Joseph Newman. Mr. Newman (notice I didn't say Dr. Newman because it appears he has no scientific credentials) is a very interesting individual who sued the U.S. Patent office for not giving him a patent for his "free energy machine". Take a look at the Wikipedia entry about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Newman_(inventor)">Joseph Newman</a>.

Here are some choice entries:
"Newman has claimed that his machine violates no physical laws because it converts part of its mass to energy."

"The NBS concluded that the machine was an efficient motor but did not produce over-unity energy."

"According to the Mississippi Press, Newman said he was ordered by God to marry both his 30-year-old secretary and her 8-year-old daughter...At the time Newman was already married to a third woman..."

Converts part of its mass to energy? Hmmm... my car's engine does the same thing. It converts gasoline to rotary motion but I don't think the patent office would let me call it a free energy machine.

So you see WSR (who we'll assume is the same as Want Some Research) has really scraped the bottom of the barrel when it comes to deciding what to believe. Of course he doesn't believe the hundreds of years of conventional scientific research that shows Joseph Newman is a crackpot. Never mind that he hasn't been able to demonstate his "discovery" requires no energy input to anyone even though he has made numerous claims to have done so on <a href="http://josephnewman.com/">his website</a>. Straight Dope also has an entry for <a href="http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_401.html">Joseph Newman</a>.

I would love to comment on numerous other statements he makes but like the Harmony Chip, it would be better if I started a new topic on the new forum. Good work WSR. You've really given us a good insight to what kind of person you are!
WSR
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 10:28 AM
Captain Al,

Congrats...you have passed the test. This shows what kind of an idiot you are. I just pulled a name out of a google search on electromagnetism and quantam physics and you always seem to dig up negative information about anyone and everyone - except for your god Mr. JREF.

Negative people like you will never be truly happy with themseleves or life or the changes that technology brings.

I have had enough of you and your bad mouthing of people who just want to add to this forum.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 10:51 AM
WSR:

"As far as heat being a form of electromagnetic radiation I have learned this through quantam physics and more specifically Joseph Newman's fundamental book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman."

While I normally don't pick on spelling errors, being guilty of the occasional typo myself, someone who claims to have learned about E&M from a home study of quantum mechanics should at least have learned how to spell "quantum." You misspelled it both times.

Thanks for admitting your lie about obtaining your physics knowledge from Joseph Newman. (total crackpot - see his website at http://www.josephnewman.com/ on which he claims his amazing energy machine has been suppressed by powerful energy industry companies for many years) ("I, Joseph Newman, have repeatedly stated that mass means NOTHING if it does not have a MECHANICAL UNDERSTANDING.")

We will assume that the rest of what you said here, including your supposed tests run on boiled and frozen patches, is every bit as reliable. You are a liar. Goodbye.
WSR
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 11:23 AM
Thanks for the spelling lesson Joel. Energy spreads evenly throughout any systems that are in contact. Some of that energy will take the form of electromagnetic radiation - hot bodies will transfer their energy not only to other bodies they are in contact with, but also to the electromagnetic field, in other words: they will emit electromagnetic radiation. The energy transfer - and the energy of the radiation emitted - increases with a body's temperature.
You can find a number of sites that refer to heat as thermal energy or electromagentic radiation. I thought you as the thermos man would understand this. The term heat is used to describe the flow of energy.

The study I am conducting is real and is producing undeniable results.

Good bye Joel. I will miss you.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 01:21 PM
Thanks for the physics lesson, WSR. However, having aced my Physics, E&M, and Heat Transfer classes in engineering school, I'll stick with what my textbooks say about those subjects rather than websites by Joseph Newman or whoever.
WSR
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 02:46 PM
Of course you would and I will stick to the fact that anything is possible and a lot of traditional science will soon be replaced.

Bye Joel.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 03:37 PM
"I just pulled a name out of a google search on electromagnetism and quantam physics and you always seem to dig up negative information about anyone and everyone"

Pretty good, out of 1,260,000 results for "electromagnetism and quantum physics" on Google, WSR managed to "just pull" a name that occurs in only 237 of them.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 04:27 PM
WSR,
It would be difficult to come up with anything but negative comments about anyone who thinks heat is a form of electromagnetic radiation. And do you have anything nice to say about a man who wanted to marry his eight year-old daughter? You sure know how to pick'em.

"anything is possible and a lot of traditional science will soon be replaced"

Ah yes, the appeal to a different way of thinking argument. Do you really expect us to believe you know more than all the scientists throughout history who dedicated their lives to the advancement of human knowledge and that you will show them they're all wrong? That's been said many times but the real trick is to make it happen. Why don't you get back to us when it has.

Traditional science was founded on strict principles of observation, measurement and experimentation and that's how it will change, if it does. Scam artists like Lifewave and child molesting lunatics like Joseph Newman will have no part in it.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 05:45 PM
Captain Al.

"Do you really expect us to believe you know more than all the scientists throughout history who dedicated their lives to the advancement of human knowledge and that you will show them they're all wrong?"

YES, WSR does! Simple. As simple as LifeWave. They say the patches work...so they work.

WSR says conventional science is about to get a kick in the pants...so it is!

Why should we struggle with this basic concept?

It's all as he says...so it is!

Sign up, sign up, nothing to loose, money back guarantee.

No loonies in the LifeWave department...because they say so.

Cheers,
Dave
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 06:24 PM
WSR said:

"Congrats...you have passed the test. This shows what kind of an idiot you are. I just pulled a name out of a google search on electromagnetism and quantam physics and you always seem to dig up negative information about anyone and everyone - except for your god Mr. JREF."

Oooh, it was a TRAP all along! Puh-leeze! WSR, you originally claimed that your information about heat being part of the electromagnetic spectrum came from Joe Newman. Now you say that you "picked him at random." So you're a liar by your own admission. Not only that, but you "lied" by picking a guy with whom skeptics are well-acquainted because he's been pitching his silliness for many years now. I personally remember seeing him on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show, back in the 70's, I believe.

"...you always seem to dig up negative information about anyone and everyone - except for your god Mr. JREF."

Dude, you are a proponent of a product (LifeWave) the claims for which are contradicted by physics. Then you attempt to "prove" those claims by using the writings of a guy who has "invented" a perpetual motion machine. When you're caught, you say, "Ha, you fell for my trap!"

Then, when all that is pointed out, you say, "Gee, you guys are negative!"

Seriously, do you REALLY believe this nonsense, or are you just that desperate to keep the LifeWave Money Machine going?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 06:33 PM
WSR said:

"...I will stick to the fact that anything is possible and a lot of traditional science will soon be replaced."

I will repeat the claim I have made in the past when other people have said that "anything is possible."

I can fly, with no supports of any kind and no external power supply. Yes, fly, just like a bird, under my own power. You ought to see me, sailing around the Oregon sky.

Now, since you say that "anything is possible and a lot of traditional science will soon be replaced," you have NO basis on which to contradict my claims. After all, you say that non-transdermal patches can somehow impart energy to the human body, in contradiction to physics.

I would really appreciate it if you would endorse my claim of flying under my own power. At this late date, please do not attempt to say that it is impossible. After all, you have rejected conventional science and have insisted that LifeWave patches work, simply because you say so. If, as with LifeWave, you believe that personal endorsements are the equal of actual PROOF, I would be glad to have my wife give you an eyewitness account of my flying. That should be good enough, right?

Before you ask me, NO, I will NOT apply for the JREF Prize. Randi doesn't have the money, Randi doesn't exist and if he did, he would only change the rules and cheat me anyway. (Did I get that right?)

When may I expect your endorsement of my amazing flying ability?
WSR
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 09:27 PM
CMG, As soon as you have 50000 people people who can fly, research and testimonials from well respected doctors, sales of your flying abilities reaching over $5 million, endoresements from athletes, and acceptance from the NIH to do further research I will gladly endorse you. Its funny how quick you are to dig up bad stuff on Joseph Newman. I seriously have never heard of his name before. Why don't you use some of your sleuthing skills to look into James Randi and Bob Burtis. Like I said before you are so negative about life that you add no credibility to your name or this forum. You ae quick to personally attack every new poster on this forum. You are a waste of skin!!

Captain Al,
I will be back to this forum in about 3 or 4 years to let you know that LW is still going strong.....but I am sure you will be well aware of it and maybe you will actually try the patches too.

Hardcoremomof4, I won't miss you. You add nothing to this forum.

Dave, I'm glad you have seen the light. That is all there is too it and all I have been asking all along. Try the patches & enjoy the patches. I'm glad you have seen the light. I'll check back with you as well in about 4 years to see if you are still enjoying the product.

Lifewave....the future is now!!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 09:39 PM
WSR said:
"I will be back to this forum in about 3 or 4 years"

No, you'll be doing 3 or 4 years. As you may have heard the FTC has nailed the scammers selling the Q-Ray bracelet and it's only a matter of time before they get around to Lifewave. When they do they will go after everyone who was involved in the scam including the distributors (that's you). We'll be sure and write you while you're the big house so you don't get bored. Hey maybe you get Joseph Newman as a cell mate!
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 | 11:52 PM
From CMG:
"I can fly, with no supports of any kind and no external power supply. Yes, fly, just like a bird, under my own power. You ought to see me, sailing around the Oregon sky."

Do you ever fly over and visit Dave on his island?

From WSR:
"Hardcoremomof4, I won't miss you. You add nothing to this forum."

Words do not express how broken-hearted I am that he feels this way.
Yupiter from Jewpiter
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 02:37 AM
WSR is absolutely right, you guys do have a very negative atitude.
I respect your idea to fight against scam and to protect others from geting burned. That is very
positive and defining characteristic of an caring
person. When it comes to market relations, the only scamed party are customers, and I would love to see complaining from LifeWave customers being scamed.
If some people decided to part from LifeWave and not to get involved anymore, is their decision, and they are free to share their experience with the world.
Ever since I've joined this forum with an idea to give my input about logic and common sense, you guys are constantly slapping me with your hatred towards David Schmidt, as an argument.
David Schmidt is innocent today and is not your
right to call Him Scammer, because you do not have
authority yet. It is stil in form of a Belief.
Belief can not be used in Court of Justice, and
with same respect it should not be used on this forum.
You guys (few pages back)have already declared an
End that have happend to LifeWave, and displayed
and unsung passion for Idea of seing every LW
distributor behind bars, as if they slaughtered your Families.
Can't you see that you created your own statutes,
norms and laws about proclaiming scams and prosecuting them, and they differ from written Laws governing those issues.
You guys are in trenches firing with " LifeWave
is a scam ", and not taking No for an answer, or
atleast as a Hostage.
( You kinda remind me of Kosovo Albanians with their Idea of an " Independent Kosovo ", the only difference is they have paid and still paying
millions of dollars made from Heroin distribution
to cultivate their desire, and you guys are allowed doing what you do for free, only because we don't know who you are. In the other hand everybody knows who is David Schmidt, who is legaly making fortune, regardless of your wishes)

So, LifeWave is a scam, or you believe LifeWave is a scam ?

Can someone put emotions aside and give me rational answer to this simple question ?

Thank you.

JewPiter
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 12:11 PM
WSR

"...acceptance from the NIH..."

Not quite sure why you keep mentioning this point WSR.

In the REAL world, the NIH has stated in an email to me:

"Thank you for writing to the NIH. To the best of my knowledge, NIH has no affiliation with LifeWave.

Please let us know if we can assist further."

NIH Information Staff -- code J
National Institutes of Health
Office of Communications and Public Liaison
9000 Rockville Pike
Bethesda, Maryland 20892

Your words have demonstrated amply your thought processes much better than any comments I could make.

As with other LifeWavers, you are either:

1: A true beliver of the product and hence fall under the category of delusional and therefore impervious to logical argument (so in essence, we all waste our time trying to convince you otherwise)or

2: A money hungry distributor who knowingly spends time pushing this scam.

Either way...the SCAM continues.

EDH UK
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 01:36 PM
WSR said:

"CMG, As soon as you have 50000 people people who can fly, research and testimonials from well respected doctors, sales of your flying abilities reaching over $5 million, endoresements from athletes, and acceptance from the NIH to do further research I will gladly endorse you."

Hey, I have a swell idea. Why don't YOU provide those same things re LifeWave? As I pointed out, personal endorsements really don't mean anything, therefore "50000" of them wouldn't mean anything either. (50000 times zero is zero.)

As for "research," gimme a break. Are you referring to the "studies" done at Morehouse, etc. that turn out not to exist?

"$5 million in sales"? Meaningless. After all, Q-Ray sold more than that, according to the government. I assume you know what happened recently to THEM, right?

"Acceptance from the NIH"? That's been dealt with by others so I won't repeat what's been said.

You have a big pile of nothing and you keep waving it in our face like we're supposed to be impressed by it. Fiction, no matter how much of it you amass, does NOT amount to so much as one solid FACT.

"Its funny how quick you are to dig up bad stuff on Joseph Newman. I seriously have never heard of his name before."

Well, that really speaks more to your ignorance on the subject than anything else. It's hardly a secret that Joe Newman was on the Tonight Show, after all. I LOVE how you blame me for actually knowing stuff about Newman rather than blame yourself for citing a guy with NO credibility. Why didn't YOU look into Newman before you climbed out onto that limb with him?

"Why don't you use some of your sleuthing skills to look into James Randi and Bob Burtis."

In the Age of Google, it hardly takes "sleuthing skills" to find out stuff about public figures. You COULD have done that with Joe Newman but you chose not to.

As for Randi, I'm well-acquainted with the usual litany of objections to him and the JREF Challenge. Which of them are you making oblique reference to? I made sarcastic allusions to them recently, didn't I?

As for Bob Burris, I learned about him via this thread. I know he has admitted to having filed bankruptcy at one point, but I don't see what that has to with LifeWave.

Suppose for a moment that Bob Burtis and James Randi could be proven to be child molesters. While that would be a terrible thing to learn about them, it would NOT automatically invalidate what they've said about LifeWave. A thing is either TRUE or it isn't. If Adolf Hitler said the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, it's true even though he was a mass murderer. Before this gets quoted out of context, neither Randi nor Burtis is a molester; I'm just trying to make a point here.

"Like I said before you are so negative about life that you add no credibility to your name or this forum. You ae quick to personally attack every new poster on this forum. You are a waste of skin!!"

Wow, you sure are negative about me, aren't you? I would defend myself by saying that I TRY to confine my comments to debating what I see as fraud and misinformation. I can't swear that I've never made fun of anyone, but I'm trying to limit that.

As for "Dr." Schmidt, he deserves all the opprobrium we can heap on him.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 08:46 PM
Research Studies

Let's not loose sight of a simple concept.

A company with a groundbreaking product and genuine studies has absolutely no trouble in having the studies examined and replicated in the public forum.

That genuine company goes on to be extremely successful and durable.

LifeWave LLC will NEVER be able to conform to this simple model due to the nature of its scam product.

It WILL con many people in the period before its closure.

Deciding to be one of the conned is your free choice.

Freedom of choice...what a concept.

Dave
EDH UK
Yupiter from Jewpiter
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 11:10 PM
Red Bull's advertisement tells us that Red Bull gives us wings, did you see anyone flying ?

" Deciding to be one of the conned is your free choice "
Sounds like compliance with the Law to me.
Unlike your sick idea to place yourself above the Law, and trash legit business.

" It WILL con many people in the period before
its closure " ?
How many people were conned so far ?
Do you feel like a Prophet ?
You indeed are an Idiot.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 11:36 PM
Red Bull's advertisement tells us that Red Bull gives us wings, did you see anyone flying ?

Nope, which more or less just backs up everything CMG, EDHUK, Joel, Captain Al, et al have said...

Common sense tells us that Red Bull doesn't really give anyone wings.

Common sense also tells us about LifeWave patches.
Yupiter from Jewpiter
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 | 11:51 PM
Dietrich Mateschitz has made over two billion bucks
last year, Is He scam too, is He on this forum ?
Did He publish any research ?
You people should be all over Him like Mike Tyson
on beauty pageant then !
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 | 12:21 AM
"Did He publish any research ?"

The research about the effects of caffeine have already been published, I'm sure if you check Google you can see several study results.

"Dietrich Mateschitz has made over two billion bucks last year, Is He scam too..."

Making a couple billion bucks a year doesn't qualify someone as a scam artist.

From Forbes.com, "But it does pack some energy. Red Bull, with 80 milligrams of caffeine, has more than double the dose found in the larger Coke serving...

His product contains something measurable by "main-stream" scientific methods.

"...typifies a new class of billionaires who got rich not by inventing a new product but by selling an ordinary one inventively."

As opposed to inventing not only a new product, but an entirely new science, that the inventor himself can not explain.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 | 01:20 AM
Yupiter from Jewpiter said:

"Red Bull's advertisement tells us that Red Bull gives us wings, did you see anyone flying ?"

As I presume you don't know, there is a concept known as "puffery" which is protected by law. It refers to claims in ads which are either clearly not intended to be taken seriously (like the "wings" thing) or which are the opinion of the manufacturer (like saying that such-and-such a product is the "best" of its kind). Those kind of claims are allowable under the law.

OK, since you've compared Red Bull's "wings" thing to LifeWave's claims, are you now saying that LifeWave's claims are not to be taken seriously?

On a related note, I have noticed that in at least some of Red Bull's ads, the word "wings" is spelled with extra i's, like "wiiings." My guess is that the corporate lawyers were being over-cautious and added the i's to make sure that the "gives you wings" thing couldn't possibly be taken seriously by a litigious consumer. As I said, that's just a guess, though.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 | 07:11 AM
Peter,

In the spirit of fairness, which you always promote, shouldn't you place the following disclaimer before each of your posts?

Yupiter from Jewpiter (Peter) is a distributor of the LifeWave LLC products. Statements referring to a "NEW SCIENCE" and the effectiveness of the products should take into account this conflict of interest.

EDH UK
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