The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 09:07 AM
Because she visited no other websites, that could possibly have done the exact same thing?

I don't even understand what that has to do with Life Wave patches.
std
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 12:29 PM
simple truck driver, i'll try it just to get away from the coffee crashes and hypogly crashes. on order 7-28
Waver
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 05:28 PM
Comander Schmidt and Star Fllet Captian Haltiwanger are calling. Must leave for a while.

Peace out.
Aquaman
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 05:30 PM
I have used the patches and they work for me. As long as my swimming performance continues to improve, i will use the patches. The "science" of it is nothing to hang your hat on, whatever side of the fence you are on. Science thinks it is the end-all be-all answer to all things but it is not. Science can't prove the existance of a god. Does not make it right or wrong, just incomplete.
I welcome any response to my two-cents worth.
😊
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 07:00 PM
Aquaman said:

"I have used the patches and they work for me."

How do you know the patches are working for you? How do you know that the results you believe you see are not caused by something else? What does "working for you" mean in this context?

"As long as my swimming performance continues to improve, i will use the patches. The "science" of it is nothing to hang your hat on, whatever side of the fence you are on. Science thinks it is the end-all be-all answer to all things but it is not."

Two questions: 1: Whoever said that science is the "be all and end all?" Where have you seen a statement to that effect made? 2: What do you propose to put in place of the scientific method?

"Science can't prove the existance of a god."

That is correct. Neither can science prove definitively that there is NO God. Of course, that isn't the job of science, rendering your statement irrelevant.

Also, RELIGION can not and does not prove the existance of God, either, even though that's more along their lines.

What science DOES do is give us a system by which things can be tested. If the LifeWave patches do what their supporters claim, why don't they just put them to a double-blind test? Testing wouldn't necessarily determine HOW the patches work (assuming they do, of course) but it WOULD determine whether they actually do or not. Is that not of interest to you? If not, why not?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 08:14 PM
While I, and many others, believe LifeWave is a MLM scam, the product brings hope to thousands of "believers". The LifeWave user is often the type of person who has dabbled in other fringe items and practices and is thus already used to doubters asking pointed questions. We doubters, of course, are not privy to the workings of the alternative world of health and fitness. Poor us!

The problem is that if you feel great wearing a brown(glucose) patch and a white(glycerin) patch and don't mind paying out the $89.95 or so each and every month,what do you do if someone eventually "convinces" you that you've been had. It's very hard to own up to being a complete idiot and it certainly takes a strong personality to say "I was wrong and I admit it".

I wonder what happens to sellers in the MLM, most of whom are no doubt "believers" and probably use the product themselves, when the product is finally proven to be a hoax.(Rest assured it eventually will). Are they liable for restitution to the buyers who, in good faith, sent their hard earned cash for the promise of increased health and stamina etc? Or do the sellers, like the LifeWave owner, make very sure to hide their tracks so that they don't get a knock on the door when things go bad?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 | 09:33 PM
I'm always amazed when I hear comments from people like Aquaman who drive a modern automobile, fly away on their holidays on a Boeing 747, watch satellite TV and DVD's from the comfort of their air-conditioned homes and shop for an endless variety of food at the local supermarket. Then he has the nerve to put down science? A textbook example of selective reasoning.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 | 02:43 AM
Captain Al said:

"I'm always amazed when I hear comments from people like Aquaman who drive a modern automobile, fly away on their holidays on a Boeing 747, watch satellite TV and DVD's from the comfort of their air-conditioned homes and shop for an endless variety of food at the local supermarket. Then he has the nerve to put down science? A textbook example of selective reasoning."

Maybe he drives an alternative fuel car, flies in a hemp-powered 747, owns crystal-powered TV's and DVD's and shops at the holistic supermarket. Ever think of THAT, Mr. Smarty Pants?

Wait. Those would still come under the heading of "science," wouldn't they? Never mind.
The Caped Avenger
Member
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 | 02:59 AM
Captain Al said Selective reasoning? More like defective reasoning.

The incredible thing is that so many people out there are prepared to be consumers without giving much thought to what it may be that they are consuming! As an active marketing "executive", I get to exploit these cretins as part of my day-to-day working experience.

Since the dawn of advertising, the public at large has been hoodwinked by pseudoscience at each and every turn. Whether the science (or snake oil) concerned is bad, or the statements/claims made about a specific product are carefully worded to create false impressions, the end result is the same. They rush out and buy whatever they are told is good for them, or will increase their social compass, or will grant them super-human sexual prowess, or whatever other fantastic reward is promised. And when it doesn't work, they automatically doubt themselves - "maybe I didn't believe enough" or "maybe I did it wrong
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 | 01:34 AM
The subject of applied kinesiology came up recently in this thread. By accident, I happened upon a funny anecdote about that very subject just now. Go here:

http://skepdic.com/cognitivedissonance.html

The anecdote is about two-thirds of the way down the page (in bold face).
Doc Wilson
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 | 04:51 AM
I wonder if you can check out a company to find out if it is a scam. They claim to have nutritionals to cure nearly every ill. It claims to help people to get off every drug that has been prescribed. That company is www/glycoscience.org, http://www.glycoinformation.com, www.mannapages.com/flamingo. Whatever ytou can find would be appreciated.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 | 03:47 PM
If they claim to cure everthing, it's a scam.
Waver
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 07:36 AM
It has now been 5 days, yes over 120 hours, since I asked one simple question of the world infamous Mr. Bob Burtis aka WWSN and yet no answer. So, the NanoTech chronograph is ticking at 120 hours and counting. Mr.Burtis has posted 5 times since I firsted asked but he refuses to answer.

Once more I will ask my question and we will see if he dares to answer. I will also add 3 more simple questions.

Question #1

If LiveWave is a scam as you claim, why has the number one name in MLM scam detection, Mr. Rod Cook of MLM Watchdog, never had one bad word to say about LifeWave?

Question #2

If LifeWave is a scam as you claim, why did one of the US's largest banks, Wachovia, recently give LifeWave a $20,000,000 a week merchant account?

Question #3

If LifeWave is a scam as you claim, why are over 25% of the companies distributors members of the mesical community?

The clock is ticking Mr. Burtis.
Winona
in USA
 Member
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 08:52 AM
I bet I could guess at some of the answers....

1) Maybe he's too busy busting other MLM scams.

2) Because banks don't really care to try and research every company that opens an account.

3) Because doctors are people and they can be dumbasses too.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 09:20 AM
Are you quite sure you have the right LifeWave company? There is more than one. Other legitimate companies include LifeWave Inc. developers of medical imaging http://www.lifewaveinc.com/

If you are certain, please give a link so that we can all read about the amazing Wachovia deal of the Century extended to our wonderful energetic friends at LifeWave energy patches, headquarters of energy in the Universe.
Waver
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 09:46 AM
oops, I left off the 3rd new question fo Mr. Burtis:

Question #4

If Lifewave is a scam as you claim, why have there been no complaints filled against them with the BBB (Better Business Bureau not the Bogus Bob Burtis)?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 10:07 AM
LifeWave energy patches are the subject of ongoing investigation by Attorneys General Offices. Should the company check out squeeky clean ( what are the realistic chances of that happening?,I'm sure all Attorneys General Offices would soon be working in ultra high gear as they use the miracle patches to good effect. Watch out all you criminals the highly energized officials will be after you.
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 10:33 AM
BBB is comprised of members througout the US & Cananda. So, people in Europe might not have any idea what the BBB is - if they tried it and it didn't work, their first thought it not to direct their complaint to the BBB.

And, after looking through a few BBB listings of companies and also, the ratings for them (<a href="http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/RatingExplanationPage.aspx?CompanyID=13054474&sm=">rating guide</a>)...It looks like unless a complaint has been filed - and resolved, you won't get an A or higher rating. SOOoo...holding a company to the BBB isn't really any way to truly judge them.

I know for sure that a few people in my area refuse to go to a particular fast food joint that rhymes with "Paco Hell", but no complaints have been filed against them.
Tank
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 11:12 AM
nice, very well put ;o)
mark
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 11:27 AM
I work with a lady who's 74 yr old mother was at her Dr. and the Dr. gave her the patches.
She had them on for a while and did notice how much more active she was. She said she would not use the patches again because she is worried about "hurting" herself due to the extra energy that she is not used to, just thinking she can do something that her muscle and joints can't. I got a 2 week supply, I'll let you know.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 11:36 AM
I presume this "Doctor" is one of the 25% of LifeWave distributors in the Medical Community. Talk about a complete lack of ethics. Perhaps someone in your community will be kind enough to report the said "Doctor" to the Medical Board.
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 12:06 PM
Lots of Docs distribute drugs like that. They give samples to a lot of patients...Samples that have been provided by the drug and pharmecutical companies. LEGALLY it's not wrong - I have other problems with it ethically.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 01:38 PM
The problem, other than the ethics side of things (and of course we know LifeWave has no ethics) is that their "product" is not really approved for use as anything. They refer to their Patent Pending as though it were a badge of authenticity. Earlier in the thread, others have commented on the class of medical device they have applied for Patent protection...band aids, splints etc. This doctor may well be trying to drum up trade by giving out free samples and using his/her trusted doctor/patient relationship to give the worthless glucose (brown) and glycerin(white)patches their endorsement. Shame on you "Doctor". You will be found out, eventually.
mark
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 01:46 PM
My point was the patches seem to have provided somthing for her. She simply told the Doc that she felt a little tired as would most inactive 74 yr olds. The Doc just told her "try these...you can get them off the internet". I'm not concerned about ethics...I'm just interested in,.. if/how these things work. Has anyone tried them and not have them work?....I would like to know, and I understand that everyone can be affected differntly.

-M
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 02:24 PM
Mark, I understand your curiosity about these patches. It would be so wonderful if they were genuine. This particular MLM scam has been doing the rounds for some years in the form of different company names, as previously mentioned in this thread.

Medical practitioners routinely use placebo "medication" for patients. There is a whole division of pill production geared to making something that looks just like the real thing. I'm sorry to flog a dead horse, so to speak, but many previous comments have noted that even if the 74 yr old lady felt more energy after wearing the patches, for a minute or a day, it cannot be concluded that it must have been the result of the patches. Science just doesn't work that way.

Once again we come full circle to the point that LifeWave has at some time or another made claims about trials and tests. None of these has been viewed and reviewed by the scientific community.

The application originally made to James Randi for the One Million Dollar challenge was withdrawn. Why? If the company belonged to you, and the product was genuine, wouldn't you rush to James Randi to snatch the million after his scientific scrutiny gave it the thumbs up?

For those who have followed this thread, the arguments for and against are just that...for and against. Words in the wind. Meanwhile, back at camp Schmidt, a very happy entrepreneur is socking away countless millions prior to the inevitable collapse and rebirth of his company in its fourth guise.
mark
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 02:49 PM
10-4....edhuk

I just jump in the middle of the site and scaned a few comments.I was just informed about this patch on tuesday last week.

I assumed this is along the same line as those Q-ray bracelet and how they work..

I thought this sounded to good but i hadn't heard of this before.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 04:04 PM
Mark,
The kindess thing you could do is give information to your friend who's mother has been "given" these patches. As you well know,the elderly are particularly vulnerable when it comes to anything like this. An informed person stands a chance when it comes to sifting through the hype, and the amount of hype increases every day. Unfortunately that's how Google works. Just because something appears on pages 1 - 10 does not necessarily mean it is either genuine or passes any form of reasonable scrutiny.

They always say "buyer beware" but many people in our society are unable to carry out the level of scrutiny required. They rely on the apparent "logic" of "if it seems to work, it works".

Your friend will thank you if you are able to shine a little light on this scam. Who knows, you might even get to feel pretty good about it as well.

Cheers.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 09:14 PM
Mark,
This link will give you some useful information to add to your growing folder.
http://www.scam.com/archive/index.php/t-3507
Waver
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 | 10:18 AM
Really Ed what does whether or not Warren Hanchey filled for bankruptcy have to do with anything? Lot's of people have filled for bankruptcy. This weeks US News & World Report has a story on how high the numbers filling this year are. Is Donald Trump a scam because he filled for banlruptcy?

By the way, Jersey Lamb is just another of the alaisis' used by Mr. Burtis on various internet message boards to promote his agenda. Is EDHUK another?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 | 10:34 AM
Nope,
Sorry to disappoint you Waver.

I'm someone who learned about this "product" some months ago when a friend of mine was wearing them and I asked if he was trying to give up cigarettes. I was amazed at how convinced he was that they did something for him, along with his yoga, his healthy eating, his vitamins, his workouts at the gym, his meditation, his magnet therapy, etc. etc. I'm just fascinated to learn why people who find such wonderful health benefits in any of these ways is always looking for something else, something new. What does that say about the current flavor of the month? I wonder what the next big thing will be?

The purpose of that link was to give Mark more info to pass along for scrutiny. I just happen to have too much time on my hands right now, hence my postings.

Cheers.
al
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 | 10:53 AM
what if some unknowing person were told to apply the "energy" patch before bed and then the "rest" patch in the morning.....I wonder what the effect would be...
Mark
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 | 10:57 AM
I know of a person who owns an electron microscope. Does anyone think this could expose any truth to the claims about nanotechnology in these patches.
sarongsong
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 | 08:34 PM
Since the patches purportedly communicate a message to the body (burn fat instead of carbohydrates), is there a device to measure what, if any, resonance the combined materials contained within the patch produce?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 | 09:21 PM
Lets not loose the thread here. LifeWave has very cleverly marketed a patch system with glucose (brown) and glycerin (white)patches that magically cause your body to do wonderful things. They proudly proclaim their non-transdermal patches do this using nanotechnology and proceed to use other "buzzwords" to give a sense of authenticity to their product.

However, bring in the MLM aspect of this whole scam, and the promise of huge amounts of money to be made, and the real reason behind the charade becomes clear.

The only communication taking place here is between money hungry individuals and your wallet. Unfortunately, in the process, many innocent people wanting nothing more than to feel better than they do now, are swept up in the LifeWave Tsunami.

As the battle lines are drawn the "believers", with a lot on the line, use every method possible to make out that anyone who casts doubt on the efficacy of the patches must be mad, sick, involved in a conspiracy, have an axe to grind, have a secret agenda, have an ego the size of David Schmidt, posses less than average intelligence, must produce evidence that the patches don't work, and on and on...you get my drift?

One of the problems, as I see it, is that many people use the patches and feel good. What happens to these innocent folk when the truth finally surfaces? How will they come to terms with the lost money spent on glucose and glycerin? How will they fill the void left when the patches are no longer available? The placebo effect works best when you don't know about it, although, this interesting 1997 article discusses the placebo effect when you are knowingly in the loop.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_n5_v30/ai_19751307

I feel sure that not everyone involved in LifeWave is a money hungry crook. Many people are genuinely hoodwinked by the vast volume of internet information. "There's so much on the net about it, it must be good...right?" There's also a lot of information on the net about anthrax, cancer, hepatitis, syphilis, acne, it must be good, right?

And so the few who have added comments to this thread will continue to follow the progress of LifeWave with interest. On the one side, waiting for the big bang and hoping that certain individuals will receive their due reward. On the other side folks who don't want the bubble to burst just yet, until they make the "big money" as promised in the ads, and the many who genuinely feel better when they use the patches but have no idea why this happens and pray every day that no-one will expose the folly of their ways.
Waver
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 07:00 AM
Nice point, Ed. One question, please. Several vets have used the patches on older animals, especially horses, and have noted a much higher activity level in these animals. How would you explain this since animals would not be effected by the "placebo effect"?
Mark
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 07:32 AM
HELLO!!!!....About the electron microscope..

I don't have the patches in yet, but I would like to know if I take a patch in to have an analysis ran and pay to have this done, would I be wasting my time and money.

Any one with more insight on an electron microscope, please respond.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 08:14 AM
Several vets have used the patches on older animals, especially horses, and have noted a much higher activity level in these animals. How would you explain this since animals would not be effected by the "placebo effect"? - Waver

These weren't controlled double-blind tests. It could be a simple case of bias on the part of the vets. In other words, they see what they expect to see and ignore what they don't. It's an extremely common and well known problem. That's why double-blind tests were created in the first place. Even the most honest of people are susceptible to it. It's human nature.
mark
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 08:57 AM
EDHUK ....come on ,.. help me out with the electon microscope info..

this person I know of that owns the E.M. business
,... I have not delt with for about ten years.

just wanted to see if anyone was familiar w/ electron microscopes.
Waver
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 09:13 AM
Not ED, but I have seen this machine used to show the energy increases from wearing the patches:

SpectraVision
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 12:31 PM
Mark,

I don't know much about Electron Microscopes other than they produce the most amazing pictures when compared to standard light microscopes. I am interested in what you would expect to see if you looked at glucose or glycerin with such a device? Are you hoping to see some kind of circuitry floating around in the goo. Say you decide to use your old friend's services and take pictures of the glucose and glycerin patches and you do identify something else in the pictures? Would this then prove the patches work? Of course not. It would demonstrate that there is something else in the mix. No matter how you approach the subject, and obviously it has been approached from almost every conceivable angle, you can never get away from the reality of properly conducted trials.

Proof of efficacy, or of any effect, is a tedious business...ask any drug lab. But proof is required in the real world. It is always up to the seller of the snake oil to prove it works, not the doubters to prove it doesn't. There is also the important aspect of proving that there are no harmful side effects. What if the patch actually did do something, but it turned out that after using the said patches for two years people/animals developed unexplained cancerous tumors at the exact sites where the patches were worn. This would prove the patches had caused cancer, right? Wrong. Without correctly conducted trials nothing of the sort could be claimed. Do you think LifeWave would be interested in trials if people developed cancer from using the patches for two years? (Probably a purely academic question as they will either be gone before then or mysteriously disappear upon learning about the tumor problem.)

WWSN1 has just posted in length their thoughts about placebo effect etc. I would just add that this area continues to be a problem with regard to LifeWave. As has been said, even with animals, who supposedly can't know about placebo effect, the human element continues to confound the test. A double blind study is essential if any kind of sense is to be made of the patches. LifeWave has on occasions claimed such studies have been done, but then again, they have claimed quite a lot haven't they!

Mark, were you thinking of becoming a distributor?
Mark
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 02:19 PM
ED...

When I first checked out their website then I realized what it was.....But the thought did cross my mind (distributor).

The electron microscope, the way it was briefly discribed to me years back is that, the sample is inserted and then is "bombarded" with atoms and then detects every element in the sample then spits out an analysis and indentifies all the elements.

-M
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 04:12 PM
Mark,

If you were to pay to have the samples analyzed and you were given a print-out of various substances...glucose, glycerin etc. how would that help you in your search for truth? How would knowing the actual composition of the patch you have been supplied get you any further forward. Knowing what's in them (and there is no way to know for sure that all the patches produced by lifewave contain the same substances) still doesn't prove they work or don't work. The company goes to great lengths to assure users that the patches are non-transdermal. Nothing in the patch enters your body. It's the "magic" that happens in the patch that somehow does something to your body. Without properly conducted trials to test the effect of said patches, and open to the gaze of the scientific world to question and replicate, we can progress no further.
Tank
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 07:16 PM
Mark,

An electron microscope is usually used like a microscope but it can see smaller than a lens system by bombarding the sample with electrons.
You cannot tell what a sample is made from (as far as I know, and I know little about electron microscopy as it goes) you use them to look at cells and things but you cannot see atoms or small molecules.

It is my guess that if you looked at the substance from within these patches, using an electron microscope, you would see nothing as the molecules would be too small......if there was some sort of antenna in there then I guess you should be able to see it!!

And yes and yes to what was said above about still needing tests...doesn't matter what it looks like...what does it ACTUALLY do?

Tank
mark
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 08:56 PM
OK guys...thanx for the info.

But I had already ordered the things before I ran across this site.

I have some victims to try them on...but as far as they know they think they'll be getting the ones for sleep...I will inform on the results.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 09:40 PM
Mark,

Even though you are going to try out patches on your friends, with them thinking they are using sleep patches, the results will be worthless. The whole idea behind double blind studies is that your "victims" have no idea whether they are being given the genuine product being tested or a placebo. Equally important, the person conducting the study does not know if they are giving the real thing or a placebo. You know what you are giving them even if you call it something else. The "test" is of no use to the ongoing search for truth.

With regard to the electron microscope, you were correct about its abilities according to this website:
http://www.unl.edu/CMRAcfem/em.htm

At some stage in this ongoing saga someone pointed out that David Schmidt has boasted that he could come out with a new patch every month. Interesting that he has the scientific ability, not documented, to be able to invent these products so easily. You would think governments around the world would run, not walk, to meet him and offer him the world in return for his great inventions. I don't sound cynical do I?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 | 09:50 PM
You may all find this picture taken with an electron microscope interesting. It's the smallest guitar in the world called the Nano Guitar about the size of a single cell. Amazing.

http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om22000.html

Perhaps if you looked at one of the LifeWave patches you might see such a guitar playing a tune called "Money Money Money"
skeptipuncturist
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 | 05:38 PM
I've been studying FDA dietary supplement/labelling laws for my business, and have found the sensible rule that any Patch or externally applied substance for medical use (i.e. claims/intends to change any structure/function) is NOT a dietary supplement, and cannot be legally marketed in the US without being proven safe and effective via the FDA's established protocols of generating scientific evidence. The claim that they had to sell these to make money to fund research is not good enough--if they are claiming any medical/internal effects, this qualifies as a misbranded unapproved new drug
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 | 06:40 PM
This is where David Schmidt has been so careful. He states that his patches are non-transdermal and that nothing enters the body. He backs up his statement with a study of the glucose(brown) and glycerin (white) patches that concur they are non-transdermal. His Patent Pending status ($75 and a requirement before you can sell the product)is listed in the same category as band aids and splints - mentioned by others.
So, if nothing enters the body, I wonder how the FDA could accuse him of selling something illegally? There's the rub.

I guess it's all too easy to sell wortheless patches so long as enough people are making big money, especially the person at the tip of the pyramid. If the patches are in effect as harmless as taping two round pieces of scotch tape to your body, how do you win the argument that they are changing anything in the body?

Questioning a delusion, the delusion that the patches actually do anything, is self defeating. A delusion, by definition, is impervious to logical argument. You can be quite sure David Schmidt is not delusional. He is very happy raking in the millions from this scam...for the time being. Unfortunately, there are many people out there...genuine, honest, hard working people, who are delusional about the value and efficacy of the patches. They have bought (continue to buy) them and feel results. Therefore, as far as they are concerned the patches MUST work...it's that simple. Anyone who has anything to say against that delusion must be against them.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 | 07:10 AM
Take a look at the FDA database for LifeWave.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/search/search.cfm?db=LST&ID=95878

Common/Generic Device Name: DISPOSABLE HEAT PATCH


TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBCHAPTER H - MEDICAL DEVICES


PART 890 -- PHYSICAL MEDICINE DEVICES

Subpart F -- Physical Medicine Therapeutic Devices Sec. 890.5710 Hot or cold disposable pack.
(a) Identification. A hot or cold disposable pack is a device intended for medical purposes that consists of a sealed plastic bag incorporating chemicals that, upon activation, provides hot or cold therapy for body surfaces.

(b) Classification. Class I (general controls). Except when intended for use on infants, the device is exempt from the premarket notification procedures in subpart E of part 807 of this chapter subject to
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 | 07:23 AM
http://www.checkmateaviation.com/Products/Energy_For_Pilots/energy_for_pilots.html

Pilots using the patches...now that makes me feel very safe!
Waver
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 | 04:56 PM
I'm sure my sponsor, who happens to own Checkmate Avaition, will be real happy his website is being talked about on here. By the way, someone in my downline signed up 42 flight attendents from Delta as LifeWave distributors ths week. Too bad they didn't come here first for you nice folks to warn them off.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 | 05:46 PM
Thank you Waver for illustrating clearly how this LifeWave deal works. Anyone who has anything negative to say about it must be a nut, right.

I'm sure the patches will go down well on the airline circuit. However, it doesn't detract from the main point. Do the patches do what they claim to do. If so, where are the verified scientific studies and peer reviews? The sheer volume of people involved in LifeWave is not, by itself, evidence of the products efficacy.

Perhaps you can shed a little light on why David Schmidt has now registered the patches with the FDA as a "Disposeable Heat Patch" ?

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/search/search.cfm?db=LST&ID=95878

I write here only because I am fascinated by the LifeWave phenomenon and how people have become so polarized in their beliefs. Despite the fact that I, along with many others, have serious misgivings about the company and its product, I'm somewhat of an agnostic about it all. Show me the evidence and I will sing the praises of the company as they will have done a wonderful service for mankind.
Tank
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 | 11:33 AM
oh my god !
Speachless I am.

any your point about Lifewave is???

an ironic post I hope ;o) (although I fear not)
Waver
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 | 05:26 PM
Your Top 10 links are backwards, but whats a little discrepancy when it comes to bashing LifeWave? Some people have way too much time on their hands.

I really don't understand what all the fuss about Davis Schmidt's education is all about. I have heard the college he attended mentioned at least 3 times publicly. The first time was the first time I heard him speak live and then at least twice on company conference calls. There is an easy to find piece of literature that lists the degrees (yes with an s) he has. I am surprised your spies have not forwarded it to you.

As far as any advertising concerning FDA approval, the company has made it know in no uncertain terms that any claims saying that are strictly forbidden and will cause any guilty distributor caught saying that to lose their distributorship.

Finally, I will be at an event with Mr. Schmidt next weekend. If you have anything you would like me to ask him, please let me know.. The first time was the first time I heard him speak live and then at least twice on company conference calls. There is an easy to find piece of literature that lists the degrees (yes with an s) he has. I am surprised your spies have not forwarded it to you.

As far as any advertising concerning FDA approval, the company has made it know in no uncertian terms that any claims saying that are strictly forbidden and will cause any guilty distributor caught saying that to lose their distributorship.

Finally, I will be at an event with Mr. Schmidt next weekend. If you have anything you would like me to ask him, please let me know.
Waver
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 | 05:32 PM
Well, look what I just found on an MLM message board posted by your pal Al Ferguson. Maybe this will ease your troubled mind:

While conducting undergrad and masters studies at Pace University during the 1980's, Mr. Schmidt received a grant from a private corporation in New Jersey for the purpose of investigating new and alternative therapies for immunogenic and non-immunogenic neuroblastomas. This work was performed in conjunction with the support of the Children
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 | 06:26 PM
Waver,
Please be so kind as to ask David why he has registered the patch as a Disposable Heat Patch.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/search/search.cfm?db=LST&ID=95878


Cheers.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 | 09:05 AM
WAVER

Al Ferguson also posts this nice diagram of a PYRAMID.

http://www.onlinemlm.com/gforum/gforum.cgi?guest=849489&do=post_view_flat;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;post=17435;=Next+Thread

Compensation Plans

http://www.sharetpp.com/arf/payplanofficial.html


Silly me. There I was actually thinking LifeWave was intent on spreading the value of using this wonderful product and now the distasteful subject of $$$$$$ comes into it.

I forgot where we live. Commerce...the ability to make a buck.

Nice litany of accomplishments for David Schmidt. And the reason we are to believe any of it is true is...?
Waver
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 | 11:10 AM
Hello "Bob",

You didn't even respond o the gift I provided for you. The "info" on David Schmidt. My, my.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 | 03:11 PM
WWSN1

You write some great stuff!

I do so look forward to the TV program looking into LifeWave. The interviews, the hands up to the camera, the "interesting" attendees of the Las Vegas (give me your money and I'll tell you what you want to hear) conference in September. It'll make great TV. Who'll get there first?

But I don't relish watching the disillusioned people with genuine problems who believe the patches are working. Remember back when that guy used to perform "operations" and take out tumors with his bare hands? The later shock on the faces of relatives of the now dead patients was painful to witness.
Anonymous
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 | 09:37 PM
"Lifewave has garnered some fresh support from the folks at the Stormfront White Nationalist Community where an affiliate says:..."

Why do you need to bring your anti-white views into this? Just because "an affiliate" of a white nationalist organization says something, that doesn't mean it reflects the views of all white nationalists or even the organization. Lots of "legitimate" news organizations advertize questionable products and services from "exercise in a bottle" to mail-order college degrees. Most media outlets will take ads from whoever will pay the most. These patches are obviously a complete scam, but white nationalism is based on facts.
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