The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 | 11:08 AM
James Randi appears to be recovering well and is answering emails.

As a side note, welcome Mark from 3M to the forum. I very much enjoyed your excellent presentation this morning. I hope you get some entertainment from these pages.

You will not believe how people can get scammed by these products, but they do.

Cheers,

Dave,
EDH UK
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 | 07:08 PM
Although all LifeWave technology products are non-medical devices they manufacture their patches to the highest standards; all active organics are listed under FDA 21 CFR (recognized as safe); the adhesive are made by 3M and is hypoallergenic; and the finished products are assembled at FDA registered facilities.

I'm sure 3M is very pleased to be linked to such an amazing invention!

What a pity it's a total scam.

EDH UK
*
Tara of the White Ray
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 | 07:28 PM
Ti hihihihihihih oh my goodness a brand new superathelete invention i am gonna order some with my next order of Kabballah water....we just filled our swimming pool with it and had it blessed by Tony Alexander to perfect the water's DNA structure...hahahahahaha omg i can't wait to go swimming with my new tachyon capsule and my rich snag boyfriend's engagement figt to me, my lovely dolphin in captivity pricilla...hahahahhihihihihih.....Om sweet Om Iskshavakunayaa,

Love you all Sweetumpoops and I'll see you all with an order of this great new atheletic product...and don't forget drink the Kabalah water....
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 03:23 PM
Dr. David Schmidt?

Bob, you
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 09:29 PM
David Schmidt
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 09:45 PM
I'd like to take a look at Dr. Lauren DeRock's horsey study. Does anybody have a link to it?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 | 06:56 AM
Joel

Here is the abstract for Dr DeRock's study.

Responsiveness of Horses to Biofrequency Modulation

After Acupuncture Palpation

J. Lauren DeRock, DVM

Abstract

The objective of this study was to explore the use of acupuncture point palpation and application of biofrequency modulation to relax the back and relieve back discomfort in horses. One hundred forty two horses were evaluated.

Four horses did not demonstrate back pain, and were not evaluated further. One hundred thirty-five of the remaining 138 horses with back pain showed elimination of back pain after patch placement for 5 minutes. Seven of these 135 horses were given a placebo patch and all showed no response. Two horses who failed to respond initially showed elimination of back pain after reversal of patch position. One horse failed to respond. In conclusion, biofrequency modulation patches, when placed according to the technique outline in this paper, consistently alleviated back pain in horses, as assessed by acupuncture palpation.

October
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 | 10:13 PM
Dave / EDH UK,

I have to wonder whether LifeWave is declining to make Dr. DeRock's groundbreaking horse study readily available because they know that it doesn't really prove anything. Perhaps the study's logic and methodology have more holes than Swiss cheese (e.g., maybe nobody has ever successfully proven that horses' bodies are tuned to the same FM radio stations as humans for receiving fat-burning commands.)

It's a neat trick that LifeWave has going: They claim that studies have been conducted and/or published that prove something ("Thirty clinical, double-blind, placebo controlled studies have now been conducted, so buy our patches now") but then they decline to make those studies and the supporting data readily available so that they can be held up to the light and examined. For the gullible, those Ghost Studies give LifeWave all the benefits of real studies but without any of the drawbacks.

Remember Homer Nazeran's scientific and scholarly paper, in which the only thing that he concluded was that, for apparently one man and one woman on one fine day after they had already been resting for awhile, LifeWave energy patches made those two people even more relaxed? And even that was based on a mathematical and esoteric definition of "relaxed" that none of us would recognize. But LifeWave claimed that the paper demonstrated why people should shell out $90 per month for their patches. That was hilarious stuff. Maybe LifeWave learned a lesson about posting those kinds of papers. But it's curious that even Dr. DeRock hasn't posted her paper on her website. You'd expect she would if she were proud of it. That makes me more curious than ever.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 | 09:00 AM
Joel

I think Bob's comments about the natural cycle that MLM scams go through is being played out with LifeWave LLC.

It really doesn't matter how many comments are made by sceptics like us, just so long as a good number of "believers" buy into the idea and buy the product.

The final tally of success is the amount of money David Schmidt is able to extract from those taken in by the scam science.

It all takes place in the mind. Real proof is incidental as the believers need to believe as a mark of winning a point or two against people like us!

This thread seems to have mirrored the cycle that Bob Burtis has outlined. It would make a very nice graph; the number of claims made by believers (distributors) etc. The curve was almost straight up in the early days. It then levelled out and is now in a precipitous decline.

Even though I've stated this many times here, I have genuine sympathy for good people who have been taken in by this fake product. People like Bill Nott and his family in Alaska are the folks who will pay the highest price on many levels.

Hoepfully, the whole distateful experience will help them to be more wary when the next great opportunity comes along.

Bob Burtis encourages due diligence. It's a concept we can apply to many areas in our lives.

Dave
*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 | 07:00 PM
From the New LifeWave LLC Website

"The adhesive of our patches is hypoallergenic however if you experience a skin irritation simply discontinue use. Should any of the contents of the patches make contact with skin simply wash with water to remove. Should you experience any type of discomfort from the use of this product discontinue use."

Gone is the claim that 3M makes the adhesive for the patches. I wonder why?

EDH UK
*
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 | 01:19 AM
Gee, shouldn't the incredible cutting-edge "nanotechnology" inherent in the LifeWave patches overcome any possible irritation caused by the adhesive?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 | 01:22 AM
That disclaimer from LifeWave reminds ne of the old joke:

Patient: [wiggling shoulder] "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this."

Doctor: "Stop doing that."
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 | 07:16 AM
Uh oh, trouble in NanoLand:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/05/AR2006040502149_pf.html
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 | 02:01 PM
CMG

Interesting article. I like the bit about...

"Michael Holman, an analyst at Lux Research in New York, which tracks the industry, said the spray may even be one of many products that lack engineered nanoparticles but claim to be "nano" for high-tech appeal."

It's amazing how "normal" it is to make claims that are not necessarily true.

What a pity a person's word, a company's word cannot be taken to the bank any more.

EDH UK
*
hcmomof4
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 | 09:19 PM
"This really raises a bunch of interesting questions, since the public has been told that nano will cure diseases, not cause them," Rejeski said.

I thought nano was a size, not a thing?
Nutrovitasub
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 | 05:58 AM
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Denver Lifewaver
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 | 10:42 PM
THE REAL SCOOP ON THE LIFEWAVE
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 | 01:55 PM
Denver Lifewaver

I guess it's all over bar the shouting!

No doubt DS will continue to make money until enough people finally realize what's been happening.

Given that you told us you are now an ex-distributor, I hope you got into the Denver show for free!

Cheers for all the info.

Dave
EDH UK
*
ThermoMagnetic_Man
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 | 12:02 AM
Denver Lifewaver, thank you for that update.

LIFEWAVE DOCUMENTS LIBRARY

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/lifewavedocuments/

This may be flogging a dead horse (so to speak) by now, but one of the things that has been missing from this discussion is a place where people can store and view relevant documents. Seeing a need, I created a Yahoo group where people can upload and download relevant documents.

I seeded the file library with some of the documents that have been referred to including: the patent application signed by
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 | 02:21 PM
Easter week-end.

More money into the coffers of the DS scam. Not so much as before but enough to keep the California lifestyle going for now.

**
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 | 09:42 PM
DR. LAUREN DEROCK
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 | 09:43 PM
DR. LAUREN DEROCK
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 | 09:43 PM
DR. LAUREN DEROCK
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 | 09:44 PM
DR. LAUREN DEROCK
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 | 07:34 AM
Joel,

Thank you for taking a closer look at Dr DeRocks study. As you noted, there couldn't have been much peer review!

Perhaps English is not Dr DeRock's first language? It certainly reads that way.

Having worked with horses, drawing blood and giving vaccines, I'd like to share an observation.

A technique is used where the horse is "desensitized" or "habituated" if you will, to the procedure being performed. The needle is inserted after a series of taps or pats with the hand. That way the horse accepts the needle with little if any fuss.

In Dr DeRocks "study" she will have confounded her experiment by unwittingly habituating or desensitizing the horses to a greater or lesser extent.

You and I know the study is, at best, the amatuer efforts of an enthusiast. I have written to Dr DeRock in the past, expressing my dismay that she has allowed her reputation to be entangled with this scam "science".

Any veterinarian who can offer a "new treatment" will be of interest to horse lovers. Perhaps she was hoping to gain some new clients.

Unfortunately, I believe she risks loosing some of her established clients instead. A person who reads about Dr DeRock's beliefs may find themselves questioning more than her judgement and knowledge on things horsey!

Dave
EDH UK
*
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 | 11:47 AM
Dave/EDH UK

Good point about the desensitization. It makes sensse that after being poked or pressed on for the first set of 9 points, the horse would quit worrying so much about what that silly human was doing back there.

The placebo group should have calibrated for any desensitization, which underscores why a placebo group of 7 horses (5%) is wholly inadequate.

So now we have Dr. Homer Nazeran's published study which concluded that LifeWave Energy Patches enhanced a tiny group of people's "relaxation levels" (defined as the ratio of their 0.05-0.15 Hz to 0.15-0.40 Hz heart rate fluctuations) rather than giving people more energy as advertised, and Dr. Lauren DeRock's study which concluded that the Energy Patches cause horses to be less annoyed when poked or pressed with 3 pounds of pressure at successive points on the back. An impressive body of literature indeed for a product that's only been on the market for 3 or 4 years.

So I would say that if somebody wants to decrease his 0.05-0.15 / 0.15-0.40 Hz heart rate fluctation ratio, or he wants to decrease his horse's level of annoyance at being poked with 3 pounds of pressure from a needle cap at 9 points in a row on the back, then that person should definitely try these patches. But if that person wants to increase his football performance, he should probably leave the patches in the closet so that his team doesn't end up like the Troy University and Morehouse College football teams did this past season.

Additionally, if a person is concerned with having his biological processes messed with by somebody who's either delusional or simply dishonest, then to be safe he should probably avoid any product from the advanced nanotechnology laboratory of "Dr. David Schmidt."
energypoints
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 11:53 AM
Hey guys, not to be intruding or anything but, I use and like the patches. It seems odd that you are so "hardcore" anti-lifewave. I have a machine, yes the NTA, and when you hook it up to your body, you can see a big difference when the patches are put on or removed. Why do you think that some of the best athletes are choosing to use the product without being paid for it. The reason is because it is better than anything else out there. There will always be people out there that want to be negative about new things but in the end, Lifewave will be one of the biggest companies in the world, guys. C'mon, I have some of the biggest MLM guys from Japan in my downline and will be bringing in about 10,000 new members in the next year just from Japan. This technology is way beyond what you guys think it is and will be going places you can't yet imagine and I'm sorry that you can't be as motivated to help people and build a good business as you are shooting it down. Talk to you soon!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 12:07 PM
energypoints

At the very least you've advertised your website!

As for your main points. None of your points have been raised in the 121 previous pages of this forum.

Not.

Later.

*
Question
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 12:38 PM
I understood that Lifewave was going to have a "muscle building patch" and a "face lift patch". Anybody know when or if those are going to be available?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 01:39 PM
Question
in Los Angeles

You could always drive over to visit DS in his office and ask him.

Meanwhile, bearing in mind that LifeWave has stated the muscle building patch must be used as part of a weight lifting program and the face lift patch with the included face cream from France, you could always get a head start then add the patches later.

You could then have a nice smooth face and big muscles...

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Dave
EDH UK
*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 01:52 PM
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 | 01:30 PM
ο Horse study is done and will be published in about 2 months in leading vet journal.

Anyone remember "in the loop" Jim Caldwell?

Funny how he didn't know Dr DeRock had her joke of a "study" published in the October - December 2005 AHVMA Journal.

Still, I suppose Jim is making a very good living off his downline.

*
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 02:44 PM
energypoints:

Not intruding at all. Welcome to the discussion.

Why do you think that some of the best athletes are choosing to use the product without being paid for it.

Probably because LifeWave says to them (as distributors have repeatedly said on these pages),
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 02:46 PM
Perhaps the reason things have gotten so slow around here is because everyone has rushed out to buy the latest in "energy systems". To be sure, this one isn't quite as user friendly, it requires a bit more effort than the patches do, but from what I can tell, it's the same basic technology, without the "nano", so you have to attach the electrodes to yourself for a while. But damn, it'll cure cancer, tics, Parkinson's, Lyme Disease...

It even has a similar name, ProWave Model 101 Energy System, but apparentely, it's not all that new of an idea, because "Seventy years ago the University of Southern California sponsored a Special Medical Research team to evaluate [Dr. Royal] Rife's electronic therapy on 16 terminally ill cancer patients. After only 90 days an initial success rate of 87.5% was recorded."

My favorite part of the 4 page brochure is this paragraph: "We are not allowed to advertise the Model 101 as a Cure for disease because of governmental control over products. To be perfectly honest we have no way of knowing exactly what your body needs to be healed of any specific pain or unhealthy condition."

I don't think we'll be seeing this at the MLM conventions though. It's got a price tag of $2,495.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 04:03 PM
The first Google hit I got for "ProWave Model 101" was on http://www.shirleymaclaine.com. Natch. 'Nuff said.
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 04:08 PM
Wow!! Does that mean it cures death too?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 | 05:22 PM
Energypoints, it's simple. LifeWave claims to be able to do things which science says it simply cannot do. You agree with LifeWave's claims but you give NO evidence whatsoever that the claims are true. You merely make statements. Unfortunately for you and those who agree with you, unsupported (and unsupportable) statements do NOT constitute proof of anything. Put simply, we have ZERO reason to accept what you and LifeWave say.

In response, I expect that you will repeat your assertions that LifeWave CAN do these things. I would point out to you in advance that mere repetition of unsupported assertions do not turn conjecture into fact.
Denver Lifewaver
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 12:55 AM
Guys, this is energypoints: (I will craft a responce to this low level worker-bee drone) He was nice enough to leave some info on himself. You can tell by his rap below that he has been inpregnated by some male donor from LW and is squawking like some chicken that has been let out of its bin. I suggest we e-mail him and call him direct to suggest an intervention. His parents need to put what ever meager savings he has left into a trust that has a custodian. We have a responsibility to make sure he does not blow what ever he has left. This is a perfect example of why children should not be allowed to use the Internet without adult supervision.

Brett Wardell
I don't believe that we, in our generation, will ever see an opportunity that has the same potential as this. If you think the product is great, you haven't seen anything yet. If you think LifeWave is growing rapidly, watch us this year. We are truly riding the wave of the future now. Let me help you find your energy points so that you can experience the LifeWave phenomenon that is changing our world.
Email: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Phone: 919-264-2822
Denver Lifewaver
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 01:37 AM
To Brett (Energy points) Wardell,

Where do I want to start? Well first of all, if you were making serious money in Lifewave, I am positive I would have heard of you. Give me a little history of your self. How long have you been in the game (Lifewave)? How much are you really earning each month from Lifewave? Did you know that the biggest distributor out of the state of Washington with over 2400 in his down-line has dropped out of Lifewave because he, nor his group could not make enough income with the Lifewave
energypoints
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 09:06 AM
Ok guys, I've decided to take your advice and quit this lifewave crap. I guess all the work I did to get one of the top female ultramarathon runners in the US to use them is for not. The same lady that is having dateline do a story on her this summer while she'll be wearing these patches. It's funny that after using the patches, she said she felt better than ever, recovered better than ever and slept better than ever with the energy and sleep patches. Now remember, this is not just some average person. This is a woman who completely knows what her body is telling her and how far she can push herself. Now, if she sees a major difference before and after using Lifewave, I really don't think that there is any better test than that. Sure it's not a medically tested study but I'd rather have this woman tell me it works than a doctor or proffessor. I didn't pay her to use them, I just told her about them and she decided to try them.

This probably doesn't mean anything to people that don't believe that this product works, but I can't say anything to you that will change your mind anyway. I believe in LW and nothing can change that. I know what it has done for me and that's all that matters.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 01:04 PM
energy points

Isn't it interesting that if a human being is: a film star, an athlete, a TV star, a golfer, a football player etc. etc. they are credited with the gift of credibility.

Somehow they are incapable of being conned or scammed.

Well, of course, you and I know that's utter nonsense. High profile people get scammed every day.

You continue to make the most basic errors in your assumptions. If only science were that simple. Why do you think there are controlled studies performed worldwide every day to demonstrate the efficacy of products?

"I know what it has done for me and that's all that matters."

More accurately, you think you know, and if that was truly all that mattered you would continue with the LifeWave company.

Perhaps our friend Bob Burtis at WWSN will be bringing us some news shortly that may comfort you in a decision to quit LifeWave.

Meanwhile, I believe there are some LifeWavers who are already rationalizing a shutdown of this scam company and will be more than ready to climb aboard the new patch company to rise from the ashes.

"The management was no good, so the company closed". "With the right new management a new company could do well". "The patches work, it's just that DS was too greedy."

Like taking candy from a baby.

Cheers,
EDH UK
*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 01:06 PM
energy points
ps Who is the runner?

*
Denver Lifewaver
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 01:56 PM
Brett, I am more interested in you answering or retorting my other points about Lifewave (i.e. the compensation plan, and how you think your Japanese MLM'ers are going to make money on a consistent basis when that is not happening to some of the early adapters in the U.S.A.?) It's interesting that with the addiction of a PR firm 6 months ago, you don't see any major articles in lets the New York Times, Newsweek magazine, Television etc. You don't hear much about the bodybuilders they(LW) have paid to indorse the product. If you think having one world class athlete is enough to convince most people, then you are more ignorant and foolish then I thought. Did you have more then a 9th grade education?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 | 04:47 PM
Denver Lifewaver
in Denver, CO

Did that PR firm actually come on board, or did they discover what they were getting involved with?

?
hcmomof4
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 12:36 AM
I'm sorry, but "that is having dateline do a story on her this summer while she'll be wearing these patches" is a bit like hearing about studies that are going to be published in 3 months. Especially when it is now 4 months after that 3 months, which was already 6 months after the first promised dates.

Not to mention the fact that the runner wearing the patches while Dateline does a story about her is not the same as having Dateline doing a story about her use of the patches.
Denver Lifewaver
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 02:39 AM
Hey Brett(energypoints), shortpump, nanoman or any other LW faithful what is your take on this:

"I have been actively promoting the energy patches for about 6 months. For some reason, although their effect is very obvious on demonstration, after people purchase them, most of the time they are dissapointed and in general people do not feel any effect. I am very involoved and explain to the people not to expect immediate boosts etc, I follow them up to make sure the placement is correct etc. I have sold about 50 packages and have only one person who really feels effect and repurchases. I cant explain this but as physicians, our credibility is on the line here and we need to optimize success rates of these patches. I was wondering if any of the physicians have similar experiences and if anyone could either provide an explanation to this phenomena or provide any suggestions."

Dr Ilan Gruenwald
Urologist
Rambam Medical Center
Haifa, Israel

A portion of the response from the forum moderator, Dr. Kamnitzer, includes:

"In my experience, only about 15% of people are energetically sensitive enough to feel the real-time energetic shifts from the patches...

Most people will notice the impact only if their systems are stressed to a point that will reveal the "marginal utility" of the patches...so I would recommend the workout test, or have people use it in situations where they normally get stressed or tired at a certain point in their process -- and use that as a baseline for evaluation of patch impact.

As a side note, many people "lose interest" in the patches due to (usually unconsciously) avoiding detoxing and/or confronting repressed/suppressed energies...This is something to consider as well.

In the right context, the patches are VERY POWERFUL."

Dr. Kamnitzer
Forum Moderator

The good Dr. Gruenwald then asks:

"...what you are saying is totally different than what the company claims the patches do, for example- 20-40% more energy per day for anyone, not only athletes etc. I really think it is important to emphasize what you wrote to me- that only about 15% of people are energetically sensitive enough to feel the real-time energetic shifts from the patches...This means that 85% wont feel anything, and I would say thats a huge difference than what people expect to get when they purchase the patches. Why pay $90 a month for a product that doesnt make you feel more energetic? Lets you finish the day more freshly? And if people need to be more hydrated, maybe only the hydration is the effect?

Do you know of any demonstrations other than muscle/tilt tests that could show people the effect of the patches? Have there been any other studies published exept Nazerans, (which I dont see any connection or relation to their claimed "frequency modulation" effect on the membranes to open up to fat molecules)?"

Dr Gruenwald.
energypoints
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 05:45 AM
Denver,

only about 15% of people are energetically sensitive enough to feel the real-time energetic shifts from the patches...
This is right on. Most people aren't in good enough shape to be in a position to feel the actual difference when the patches are applied. You notice I said "feel" the difference. They may not feel that different, but LW has said that all along. You know that! If you read Peter Ragnar's book about the Lifewave Phenomenon, you'd see that someone that IS in great shape can feel the difference right away because of how sensitive their bodies are. This doesn't mean that the patches don't work for the average joe, it just means that joe isn't going to get the same "feeling". These patches work on everyone and if used on a regular basis, with a decent diet and excersize, there will be a change in a person's energy flow.

Why did you get out of Lifewave? Are you one of the 95% or so, of the MLMers that always quit after a few months because they didn't make any money? The people who actually know about how MLM works, are patiently digging each day and slowly (at first) building a massive business.

I'm not going to waste any more time with you guys, well, maybe I'll check in every now and then. I'd love to keep in touch and let you know how good or bad things with LW are going for me down the road. That way, if I do fail, you will have another proven case. But, if a lowly bee worker like me succeeds, you'll have to take that also. In the mean time, I hope that you don't spend too much of your time with this, don't you have hobbies?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 08:28 AM
"I'm not going to waste any more time with you guys,..."

As the song goes..."Another one bites the dust."

"Are you one of the 95% or so, of the MLMers that always quit after a few months because they didn't make any money? "

Didn't bother to read this forum did you energypoints. Too busy with your delusion, I guess.

"I hope that you don't spend too much of your time with this, don't you have hobbies?"

Of course, it doesn't count if you or nanoman etc. etc. post here.

Your transparency is evident. You have zero substance. Nothing of value to bolster the LifeWave scam.

"I'd love to keep in touch and let you know how good or bad things with LW are going for me down the road."

Don't worry on that score. The end of LifeWave will be very public.

"If you read Peter Ragnar's book about the Lifewave Phenomenon,..."

I'm sure Peter Ragnar thanks you for contibuting to his bank balance.

Like taking candy from a baby!

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 08:34 AM
Denver Lifewaver
in Denver, CO

I emailed Dr Gruenwald in January of this year. He replied:

"Dera David,
Thank you for your letter, I will have a look at all the links you provided. I know that for some the patches did work and am trying to find out why for most they didnt. Of course I am worried about my reputation and that is why I am looking for scientific proof.
Dr Gruenwald"

Still looking...

:o(

O
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 09:36 AM
energypoints said:

"I'd love to keep in touch and let you know how good or bad things with LW are going for me down the road."

Why? Whether you become a billionaire or go bankrupt has no bearing on the legitimacy of Lifewave patches.

If you do check back, be sure to read the past posts regarding the legal liability you have assumed by repeating Lifewave's claims. You could find yourself on a first name basis with the FTC. Then you will be forced to defend yourself with the hard evidence we've been asking for and you refused to seek out. And that's not the end. There's still the matter of your customers who won't be thrilled at being taken for a ride...

Do you think Lifewave's "science" will stand up in court?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 09:56 AM
Captain Al

"...be sure to read the past posts regarding the legal liability you have assumed by repeating Lifewave's claims."

Even though we've mentioned this point many times, you can bet most LifeWavers either think this point is not true, or think "believe" they won't get caught.

I presume they don't follow the news very closely. This is 2006 and the digital age is very well entrenched. Recently we saw that Google was directly responsible for the incarceration of people in China who had posted words online that were not flattering to the authorities.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/nj04_smith/opedgofa.html

If LifeWaver distributors don't think they can be traced, that will make two delusions they are operating under.

*
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 01:15 PM
energypo0ints said:

"Most people aren't in good enough shape to be in a position to feel the actual difference when the patches are applied."

Wow, what a great "out."

"Gee, Mr. Distributor, I've been using LifeWave for months now and I don't see any difference."

"Well, that's because you're not in good enough shape to feel what the patches are doing to you."

How do they say these things with a straight face?

This is as good as the old "my psychic powers don't work if there's a skeptic present" gag.
Joe
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 01:47 PM
"Most people aren't in good enough shape to be in a position to feel the actual difference when the patches are applied."

I can't even reply to that. I don't know where to begin. It is just an absurd statement.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 02:01 PM
"Most people aren't in good enough shape to be in a position to feel the actual difference when the patches are applied."

One of the many "after the fact" answers concocted by LifeWave to satisfy those with probing questions.

Like taking candy from a baby!

!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 11:40 AM
A thought.

I've often stated here that David Schmidt will never worry about a person suing him over a side effect from his patches (because he knows, and can prove they are a placebo with harmless ingredients).

But, what about the claims of the efficacy in using sleep patches for those with sleep apnea?

Surely, because this is a medical condition, the patches are a form of treatment? Isn't this a whole new ball game in terms of FDA approval etc.?

The consequences of untreated sleep apnea can be significant, even fatal. What if someone uses the sleep patches and does not seek professional help for the condition?

Now it would be a case of DS in court pleading that his placebo sleep patch did nothing and the prosecution arguing that was why their client died (in the worst case scenario).

Does DS really want to risk peoples lives by encouraging them to use sleep patches that he knows cannot possibly cure the three causes of sleep apnea?

Just a thought for LifeWave distributors who will be equally to blame.

*
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 05:30 PM
Dave/EDH UK,

The cigarette makers have argued to juries, with significant success, that, "Everybody knew that cigarettes will kill you. Let's get real - nobody could have been so stupid as to believe us when we said that there was no proven link between cigarettes and lung cancer or heart disease."

I'm guessing DS's defense would be similar: "Everybody knew that my ridiculous patches were a joke. Nobody could be so stupid as to believe that the patches were an effective treatment for sleep apea. Let's get real - molasses and glycerine as tiny little cell phones that telephone your body in the middle of the night and tell it to quit snoring? Ha! Ha! Ha!"
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 06:55 PM
Lifewave Oops.

Has anybody else noticed that on the LifeWave website, the woman in the black & white head shot photograph is identified as being both "Valerie Stevens, Los Angeles, California" on the home page, and "Sheila Bryan, Banning, California" on the Products > RestQuiet > Testimonials page? Oops. Maybe she should be endorsing LifeWave anti-Multiple Personality Disorder patches.
Mary Coles
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 07:40 PM
Can someone really confirm whether the Harmony Chip has helped anyone get rid of diseases ?

I have read the websites and have been advised by the seller to buy his product but I just don't want to waste money if it doesn't work !

Some one please help me........
I need something to get rid of arthritis etc

Macy
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 07:50 PM
Mary Coles
in PAPUA NEW GUINEA

I think a quick first look at their website speaks volumes.

"Is there really such a
thing as an incurable
disease?
Common sense tells us
No!
There isn't -
otherwise mankind would have died out long
ago.

Next.

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 08:22 PM
We really need a new thread for this. It's so funny, and the guy's from Yorkshire!

"The Harmony Chip will
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 | 08:27 PM
Sorry guys, just one more thing, promise.

"How to make mosquitoes ignore you!

This is a little something I discovered "by accident".

If you can control your mind (and you will be able to after completing the ten week training) you can make yourself "invisible" to mosquitoes."

Yep, this sounds like the kind of man you want to give your hard earned dosh to!


What's that buzzing sound?

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 Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.