The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
Page 32 of 99 pages ‹ First  < 30 31 32 33 34 >  Last ›
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 03:04 AM
Dear Mr. Jim Caldwell,
You have kindly offered "Three more studies have been "accepted for publication" in addition to one already published (the Heart Rate Variability Study... let me know if you would like to review)".

I would love to review this!

I'm curious about all the hype about people winning races, or setting new records in sporting events while wearing patches? How in the world did athletes perform before LifeWave came along?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 05:09 AM
hcmomof4

LifeWave relies on the less informed buying (gullible) public. There appear to be plenty.

Submission of studies to a scientific publication is not the END of the process. It is the next stage in a process.

Researchers publish work to allow for worldwide peer review. During this peer review process, colleagues may try to replicate the work, especially if it's in their field of interest.

When they are unable to replicate the studies and the "claimed" results, they publish their findings.

Science in this way is transparent.

LifeWave, and in particular the many drones who sell the product, attempt to give the impression that being published in a scientific journal is an end in itself; that somehow the journal staff have tested the product or used their collective wisdom to give it a seal of approval.

Many "breakthroughs" have reached the journals only to be discredited as shams of science.

EDH UK
*
Bill Nott
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 05:57 AM
may we see or know of some of these brekthroughs that have been disproven ?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 06:00 AM
Submission of research papers to scientific journals.

I think it's important to look at this one more time.

Having a study published in a scientific journal is not proof that the product works.

The highly respected journal NATURE publishes information regarding submission of papers.

"Nature does not employ an editorial board of senior scientists, nor is it affiliated to a scientific society or institution, thus its decisions are independent, unbiased by scientific or national prejudices of particular individuals. Decisions are quicker, and editorial criteria can be made uniform across disciplines.
The judgement about which papers will interest a broad readership is made by Nature's editors, not its referees. One reason is because each referee sees only a tiny fraction of the papers submitted and is deeply knowledgeable about one field, whereas the editors, who see all the papers submitted, can have a broader perspective and a wider context from which to view the paper."

As you will see, the editors make the decision to print a particular study based on their opinion of what their readers will find interesting.

So, we come to the famous LifeWave patch studies involving horses.

Jim Caldwell has "kindly" given us:

"Horse study is done and will be published in about 2 months in leading vet journal. 142 horses. 100% of horses displayed improvement."

He doesn't tell us which journal, but that will come later, no doubt.

The editor of this journal has decided that the study sounds interesting. They have made the decision to print it as the claims of efficacy, IF TRUE, would be of great interest to the equine world; a real breakthrough.

In two months, if Jim's information (from LifeWave) is accurate, readers around the world will be able to form their own opinions about the claims.

Some readers will buy the patches and try them. There is an outside chance that real scientists will take the claims made in the studies and attempt to replicate the results.

As you have guessed, this process is long and tedious. Any findings, good or bad will come in many months time.

Meanwhile, back at LifeWave (give me your money)HQ, sales continue of the magic brown (glucose) and white (glycerin) patches.

Perfect!

EDH UK

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 06:05 AM
Bill Nott,

"may we see or know of some of these brekthroughs that have been disproven ?"

Absolutely Bill. These details will be published in a well respected forum in 4 months time!

Joking aside, I'll put together a list and post asap.

Meanwhile , other posters, WWSN, CMG etc. may well post their favorite scientific hoaxes/scams that were uncovered by being peer reviewed in scientific journals.

Later.

EDH UK
:o)
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 06:54 AM
Bill Nott

While you wait for specifics, here's something to get your teeth into:

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False
John P. A. Ioannidis

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

Cheers,
EDH UK
Nanoman
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 08:05 AM
EDHUK,

You really are a piece of work. First you won't try the patches, then you say that you can't wait until the media gets a hold of LW, then you say you want studies, then you say you want published studies. To my understanding all of the above have now happened except for one..........you still have not tried the patches.

Now you claim that most published studies are false. When are you ever going to snap out of your bubble world?

So according to your link above when scientists will try to prove LW wrong and publish the results...........we at LW will know that the published results are false.

Cheers
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:11 AM
Oh look, Nanoman is back. Where ya bin?

I'm still wondering what trying these patches has to do with deciding if they work? Now if the patches claimed to give you 1000% more energy, it would be obvious if they worked or not. But when Lifewave came up with this scam they chose 20% (or 40, depending of who you talk to). That's just enough to get people excited but not enough that people would know right away they didn't work. Then of course the placebo effect would kick in to give a little increase so customers would be happy.

We have tried to tell you over and over, personal anecdotal evidence is worthless but somehow you don't get it. Do you think doctors should administer treatment for kidney failure based on something a friend of a friend tried and claimed to work?
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:14 AM
PUBLISHED FRAUDS AND HOAXES include:

A recent published case of fraud(for those of you who don
Ralph Wolfschmidt
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:41 AM
March 25th (Saturday) in Orange County, CA.

9am--6pm

At the Marriot Residence Inn, 2855 Main Street, Irvine CA

949 261-2020

If you just want to make enough money to get your product for free or supplement your income, this training is NOT for you.

This is for the leaders (and future leaders) who want HUGE growth-and that only happens through PERSONAL BREAKTHROUGHS.

We will NOT be teaching where to place the patches. We will NOT be answering any product questions.

We have the best product in the world. Now it is time to create the incomes to match.

We WILL train you:

* How to overcome any objection
* How to draw people to your business so they ASK YOU how to join
* The seven keys to an effective presentation (and we will all practice)
* The SECRET TECHNIQUES of effective public speaking (and YES you will do it, not just hear it)
* The correct POSTURE in recruiting
* How to MOVE THROUGH any fear
* The POWER WORDS that dramatically increase results.
* The little know technique that can add thousands to your monthly income
* How to remove ANY EMOTIONAL BLOCK that holds you back
* How to MANIFEST your desires with a simple, proven system
* How to know what PERSONALITY TYPE you are dealing with just by their handshake
* Techniques to IDENTIFY AND MOTIVATE different personalities
* What people need to know and feel BEFORE they say YES

This training will be led by Rob Styler but it will be VERY INTERACTIVE. It will not be one person lecturing from a stage. It will be a MASTERMIND GROUP where we all leave knowing we possess the tools, the skills and the knowledge to achieve massive success with LifeWave.

If you want to just sit back and take notes, DON'T COME.

If you are not willing to move out of your comfort zone, DON'T COME.

Again, this training is ONLY for the leaders and future leaders.

Dr. Styler (yes he is my brother) will be at the seminar. He has invested 20 years to learn POWERFUL SYSTEMS to HELP YOU breakthrough personal barriers. He will pull people out of the seminar and personally work with the FIRST 40 people who register.

Most of us have some internal block to why we don't achieve our goals. We want to make 20K a month, but on some level, we don't believe we can-- or that we deserve it. This personal one-on-one session will identify and help remove those blocks.

Every participant will also receive a CD with Dr. Jeffrey Thompson, the world's leader in NeuroAcoustic Sound Therapy. This is a tool that will help reinforce the successful patterns you will learn. Google Dr. Thompson and you will understand the power of his work. This CD is FREE with your participation.

By the end of the day, you will walk out ARMED AND READY to explode your business with LifeWave.

This is not an official LifeWave event. It is put on by LifeCrew. There is a 100% money back guarantee for the training. If you don't think it was worth 5 times your money, we will refund you on the spot. And, get this-the training is only $69.

The cost will NEVER be this low again. I have paid as much as $1,000 a weekend to learn this information and it has translated into millions of dollars of production.

We simply want to document the POWER of these technique and systems. Once testimonials pour in about the results people achieve.well, let's just say that this is going to be fun.

The order page goes through PayPal, but you don't need an account. You can just click the "Don't have a PayPal account button" and pay with a credit card.

There is only one problem.

The room only has space for 80 PEOPLE. We want this first one to be small so we can have a lot of personal interaction. To be fair, it will be the first 80 who register.

This will be a PROFESIONAL TRAINING. Men need to be in suits and ties and women, well, you already know how to dress professionally! If you are not comfortable dressing professional, don't come.
Ed Beerbund
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 12:31 PM
NeuroAcoustic Sound Therapy

What the hell is that?

More husksters trying to steal people's hard earned money!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 12:45 PM
Nanoman.

Later Nanoman. I'll have to think of a reply worthy of your impressive statement!

DUH

EDH UK
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 02:06 PM
Ralph Wolfschmidt,

Thank you for that timely post. Your post illustrates how people at the top of many MLMs and those associated with them make a large percentage of their money: not by selling actual product but by selling all the events, motivational seminars, training materials, books, tapes, etc. that go along with being a distributor. This information comes from an Amway/Alticor refugee friend of mine. The point is to keep people thinking that, "If I just attend a few more company events, and get a little more inspiration, I'll make a personal breakthrough and the money will start rolling in any day now."

The poor schmucks.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 02:47 PM
Hey, Nanoman, I have something absolutely amazing for you to try. Here's what I want you to do: go to a high floor on a tall building, open the window and jump out.

Now, that may seem absurd to you but what you don't realize is that I've developed a revolutionary "mind improvement drink" which allows me to suspend the laws of physics for anyone I happen to think about.

As you can clearly see, so long as I'm thinking about you, you are in NO risk of falling to the ground and injuring or killing yourself. All you have to do is tell me exactly when you are going to jump out the window so that I can be sure to be thinking about you.

OF course there is documentation for my claims about my amazing product; it will be published as soon as I have the money to do so.

So, when will you be jumping? You aren't afraid to try my amazing product, are you? I have a LOT of anecdotal evidence that it works; I've been thinking about my family for months now and NOT ONE member has been hit by a car! So you can see that it works as advertised, right?

Please advise me as to when you will be jumping out of a high window. I want to be sure to have the press there to cover what will obviously be a momentous day for mankind.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 02:56 PM
"We will NOT be teaching where to place the patches. We will NOT be answering any product questions"

"If you are not comfortable dressing professional, don't come."

That's right Ralph. The product has nothing but sugar and water inside so we have to do this all with image. Let's just pretend we are a legitimate company and take their money before they know what's happened to them. It's the second oldest profession.
Lifewave Support Team
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 03:08 PM
Okalani not for sale outside US and Canada

As many of you know Okalani can not be shipped outside the U.S. and Canada. We do not expect to sell Okalani outside the U.S. and Canada in the foreseeable future.

If you are outside of the U.S. and Canada please we do not order packages with Okalani or IceWave products. If products are ordered please note that they will not be delivered and your payment will be returned.

We hope to resolve this as soon as possible

Thank you for all your hard work and patience!

IceWave not for sale in Japan

LifeWave is currently in the process applying for approval for IceWave in Japan. We would like all of our distributors to know that we will be notifying you of the progress.

If products are ordered please note that they will not be delivered and your payment will be returned.

We hope to resolve this as soon as possible

Thank you for all your hard work and patience!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 03:11 PM
Nanoman

"To my understanding all of the above have now happened except for one.."

You have ZERO understanding. That's why you continue to sell this worthless placebo product.

You have also demonstrated many times that you have ZERO ethical values and ZERO morals.

You continue to occupy your position as a bottom feeder; the lowest of the lowlife.

You occasionally come up for air when you think you might be able to score a point or two for the LifeWave team.

Nanoman, you were absurd before; nothing has changed.

Nice try though.

!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 03:42 PM
Imagine some NFL team getting ready for the Super Bowl and the coach accidently gets his wife's Lifewave Anti-wrikle patches mixed up with the Lifewave Energy patches.

His team gets blown out in the game but boy do they look great in the team photo!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 03:43 PM
Bill Nott

Some more folks who "faked it".

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V125/N50/50van_parijs.html

http://www.nd.edu/~jbarkai/schonquestions.pdf

http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html

http://sanacacio.net/118_saga/story.html

http://www.spinwatch.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1265

http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2006/01/10/clone-fraud20060110.html

http://anthony.liekens.net/index.php/Misc/FakeConferences

http://www.reason.com/0303/fe.mf.big.shtml

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/05/AR2006020501059.html

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 03:56 PM
Captain Al.

Don't forget they would have to use the CREAM AS WELL!

Muscle patches to be worn while LIFTING WEIGHTS AS WELL!

Energy patches to be worn while DRINKING PLENTY OF WATER TO ENSURE PROPER HYDRATION LEVELS!

Since last Summer when I first posted on this forum I have discussed the LifeWave company with many people. Veterinarians, scientists in the Nanotechnology field and various other inquisitive people.

Their UNIVERSAL response has been one of utter ASTONISHMENT that anyone could be so STUPID to fall for this scam!

I tell them that, apparently, many people ARE THAT STUPID.

They continue to remain DUMBFOUNDED when I tell them this forum is on page 100+ and the scam company continues to get away with it.

*
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 06:32 PM
Do we need any better proof that the educational system in this country has utterly failed our children? Sure, it's fun to believe in harmless whims of fantasy like UFO abductions, but it is MIND BOGGLING to see people swallowing this LifeWave crap.

Knowing that people are falling for this scam by the thousands, and reading the comments posted by Wavers, is like watching a human train wreck unfold in slow motion - fascinating, morbid entertainment.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 08:34 PM
EDHUK,

Yes thank you, I forgot about the cream.

Don't be too hard on those who have been taken in by Lifewave. They are just victims of a wave of pseudoscientific nonsense that has been slowly choking the reality out of society for the sole purpose of making a fast buck. Every one likes to think they are keeping up to date but most don't seem to know how. It's just too easy to think you've stumbled on to something everyone else, including the PhD's, doesn't know. This being in the exclusive crowd is very intoxicating and hard to let go of. A hundred years ago, it was possible to have advanced knowledge of something mainstream science hadn't grasped yet, but today you need to be working with the best in the field for many years to be in that position. Unfortunately, many who flunked high school science don't realize this especially with the number of charlatans out there telling them what they want to hear.

The amazing progress of real science and technology has led some to believe that anything is possible right now. But as Joel says, they don't understand real physics, chemistry, and biology, so they can't use that knowledge to filter out the crap spread by Lifewave, homeopathics, chiropractics, acupunturists, and others. If only people knew that, for instance, this magnetic field that Lifewave claims exist around the human body, is total nonsense, then they would instantly be able to judge a product that claims to "modulate" it by "resonant energy transfer".

The bottom line is people must face the fact that, at this point in time, not everything is possible and not every disease is curable. They must resist those who demonize modern science and claim to have miraculous inventions and cures that science is "hiding from them" or is too incompentent to develop. If the vast technology industry, with its PhD's, Nobel Prize winners and billions of dollars worth of research and development capability can't do something, then why should we believe a bunch of uneducated, fly-by-night, rejects with criminal records can do it?
Nanoman
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:08 PM
EDHUK,

And you thought that was a worthy reply??!! Its funny how you always resort to personal attacks. All I am stating is the facts. LW is publishing studies and you can take it or leave it. Many people still bash acupuncture as well but guess what....it is here to stay as well, just like LW.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:12 PM
Bill Nott,
Here is another example of what appears to be faked science as reported today in <a href="http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN06/wn031006.html">What's New</a> by Bob Park, physics professor at the University of Maryland.


1. BUBBLE FUSION: NEWS OF SCIENCE THAT WON'T CHANGE YOUR LIFE.
The story sounded vaguely familiar. A claim was made in the month of March that deuterium fusion had been produced in a desktop experiment. However, experienced nuclear physicists, using the same experimental setup except for better detection equipment, found no evidence of fusion. By early summer, the bubble burst. "Cold fusion" in 1989? No, "bubble fusion" in 2002, (WN 1 Mar 02) . But like cold fusion, the corpse of bubble fusion keeps twitching. In 2003, Rusi Taleyarkhan, who made the claim, moved from Oak Ridge to Purdue University. There he claimed to confirm fusion. Others found nothing. Last week, citing "extremely serious" concerns, Purdue announced a full review of Taleyarkhan's work.


You see, it's out there Bill. You just have to look for it. You can't learn about the real world by listening to Lifewave.
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:24 PM
This is part of the Orange County seminar: "How to remove ANY EMOTIONAL BLOCK that holds you back".

I thought they weren't answering any product
questions, but isn't that one of the things that cause the patch to not work?

The sentences just before the list of objectives states "We have the best product in the world. Now it is time to create the incomes to match." None of these statement seem to have anything at all to do with the patch, so the best product in the world is obviously not them...

"How to draw people to your business so they ASK YOU how to join"
"The SECRET TECHNIQUES of effective public speaking"
"The correct POSTURE in recruiting"
"How to MANIFEST your desires with a simple, proven system"
"How to know what PERSONALITY TYPE you are dealing with just by their handshake"

This one however -
"The POWER WORDS that dramatically increase results."
is directly connected with using the patch. But I already know the words... I do believe, I do believe, I do believe
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 | 10:32 PM
CMG,
I want to offer an unsolicited endorsement/testimonial of your offer. And to thank you so very much. I didn't even know you were thinking of my family, but in the last year, NOT ONE MEMBER of my family has been hit by a car!! Or been hurt falling out of a tall building for that matter... Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Nanoman, you should try it, it really works!!!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 01:36 AM
hcmomof4 said:

"CMG,
I want to offer an unsolicited endorsement/testimonial of your offer. And to thank you so very much. I didn't even know you were thinking of my family, but in the last year, NOT ONE MEMBER of my family has been hit by a car!! Or been hurt falling out of a tall building for that matter... Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

"Nanoman, you should try it, it really works!!!"

Well, I WASN'T thinking about your family originally but I started as soon as I read your posting. I guess I forgot to mention that my amazing mind-enhancing product also works retroactively. In other words, if I start thinking about you AFTER you jump out the window, you will still be protected from injury.

So, Nanoman, what do you have to lose? Why won't you just try my amazing product? Tell you what, I won't even charge you for this protection. All I ask is that when you pick yourself up off the sidewalk, uninjured, you tell all your friends about my amazing product.

HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY CRITICIZE MY PRODUCT IF YOU WON'T EVEN TRY IT??
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 01:45 AM
Nanoman said:

"Many people still bash acupuncture as well but guess what....it is here to stay as well, just like LW."

Well, that settles that. As we all know, anything that endures MUST be real. You know, like astrology, feng shui and ouija boards. They've been around for a long time, therefore they MUST work.

See, you skeptics, you thought ouija boards were just a harmless toy. Ha! They are actually the portal to the spirit world. We know this because they've been around for a long time. Imagine an amazing thing like that available at Toys 'R' Us for about ten bucks! You just can't argue with logic, can you?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 01:59 AM
Captain Al said:

"The amazing progress of real science and technology has led some to believe that anything is possible right now."

Funny, that comment triggered something in my brain. I don't know if you've seen it, but Earthlink, the Internet company, is running a commercial with the announcer saying, "Do you believe anything is possible?" Every time I see it, I say, "Uh, no, I don't, actually."

I guess the ad is supposed to appeal to people's "openmindedness" but at this moment in human history, no, everything is NOT possible. While it's certainly true that we can do things that weren't even remotely possible not all that long ago, there are still many things simply beyond our capability.

There's a saying about how any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I think that some of the newer sciences are somewhat beyond the understanding of people who don't read up on them (or who lack the ability to understand what they could read). Sadly, this stuff simply seems like magic to these people, leading them to the notion that any crazy thing just might be possible.

Unfortunately, that isn't true. Pigs can't fly and small plastic patches containing molassas and glycerin can't impart energy to people. Not yet, anyway.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 03:01 AM
Bill Nott said:

"Im sorry ,, but this entire James randi ordeal is completley and utterly bunk and meaningless .. and is made known so by these simple sentences.....

"Mr. Randi's challenge is for paranormal activity. LifeWave is not making any paranormal claims." - Dr. Haltiwanger"

James Randi has made his reason for offering the Million Dollar Prize to LifeWave very clear--at least to anyone who can read simple declaratory sentences.

Putting that aside, what difference does it make? There's a man in Florida offering LifeWave ONE MILLION DOLLARS for simply proving, under controlled conditions, that their product does what they have been loudly proclaiming it does. Prove that your product works as advertised, take his money and call him an old fool. You'd certainly be entitled to do that if you can only demonstrate that your product does what you claim it does.

Since LifeWave can do all these amazing things, what possible reason could you have to not be more than willing to demonstrate them in a manner guaranteed to get you a lot of publicity and garner you a million dollars in the process?

By the way, I don't think it has to be David Schmidt himself who steps up and accepts the Challenge. I think any LifeWave distributor could go for the money. Since there seems to be hundreds, if not thousands, of those, it strikes me as odd that not one of them wants a million dollars. Why, it's almost as if the people involved in LifeWave know that it's a scam.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 07:26 AM
Nanoman

"And you thought that was a worthy reply??!!"

It's about what you are worth.

No more no less.

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 07:47 AM
Nanoman

"And you thought that was a worthy reply??!!"

Just to be sure I've checked my post.

Yes, it sums up my thoughts about you.

"Nanoman, you were absurd before; nothing has changed."

Now, of course, you could surprise us all and do something outstanding like:

Explain why "Studies" being published in Januuary 2006 in well respected journals WERE NOT.

Why no one, yourself included, has not RUSHED to James Randi to take him up on the $1 Million challenge, knowing full well, according to you, that the energy patches work as claimed, assuring your win.

Explain why you continue to treat the general public like complete MORONS expecting them to believe in worthless glucose and glycerin patches that "talk" to you body.

Explain why your greed for more and more money causes you to set aside any crumb of decency, moral values and ethical standards.

Why you persist in your bankrupt line of questions: "Why don't you try the patches?"
etc. etc. etc.

You were once amusing. You have now become irritating.

"Its funny how you always resort to personal attacks."

In your case, it's certainly not FUNNY.

You are neither funny or worthy of being referred to as a person.

Please continue to dig your hole.

Will you have the guts to give your contact details like Jim Caldwell did?

He's willing to put his money where his mouth is.

Now let's see you do the same.

*
Nanoman
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 09:29 AM
EDHUK,

Let me try to answer your questions.

"Nanoman, you were absurd before; nothing has changed." - A little harsh considering you don't even know me. You may continue to think LW is absurd but it really doesn't have anything to do with me.

"Now, of course, you could surprise us all and do something outstanding like:

Explain why "Studies" being published in Januuary 2006 in well respected journals WERE NOT. - Studies take time to complete and peer review. The paper process also take long and once they are submitted, the respective journals have control over when they are placing them in there issues. They are coming as was described by previous posts. Be Patient!!

"Why no one, yourself included, has not RUSHED to James Randi to take him up on the $1 Million challenge, knowing full well, according to you, that the energy patches work as claimed, assuring your win." - I have told you already that this site & contest is not for LW. It is for paranormal activity and this does not fit LW which is new science. Plus he would be one of those that would do a study and publish false data against LW just as you have been describing in the previous posts. Thanks for doing all your homework. I appreciate it. You have pointed out the fact that research will always show both sides of the coin. Negative, narrowminded people like you, CMG, Bob,& James would obviously want to conduct study after study until one came that LW patches didn't work and then try to publish it. The difference here is that the studies for LW are being conducted by independent health professionals not furnace salesman, writers, and bashers of progress.

"Explain why you continue to treat the general public like complete MORONS expecting them to believe in worthless glucose and glycerin patches that "talk" to you body." - I don't treat anyone like morons. I simply share the patches with them (yes they actually try them!!), and have them experience the many things that the patches can do for them. The always come back for more.

"Explain why your greed for more and more money causes you to set aside any crumb of decency, moral values and ethical standards." - I don't consider myself greedy money. I am trying to secure a financial future and am enjoying life to the fullest. I am not sure where the moral, values, and ethics of all of this comes in??

"Why you persist in your bankrupt line of questions: "Why don't you try the patches?"
etc. etc. etc. - I have explained this before. All you have to do is try them and you will experience the LW effect. I don't like selling or pushing prodcut on people. Just try it.

"You were once amusing. You have now become irritating." - Progress is always irritating for the narrowminded.


"Will you have the guts to give your contact details like Jim Caldwell did?" - ED, I refuse to give you my name as I have seen before what you do. You sit behind your computer all day doing google searches until you come up with some inside info that you use to smear ones name all around this forum and personally attack them. My name is irrelevant here. This forum is about the LW product. I have put my money where my mouth is and have seen first hand hundreds of people who have thanked me for introducing them to LW and for making a difference in their lives (both health and financial).
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 09:35 AM
Nanoman

"My name is irrelevant here."

CORRECT!

The ONLY TRUE THING YOU HAVE TOLD US...period!

And...one more time...MY NAME IS NOT ED.

DUH
!
Bill Nott
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 10:58 AM
Bobby wrote...

Here's an item for your "time will tell" swan song, Bill:

I predict that within the next week a major player in the Lifewave organization will resign from the company.

Watch this space!

Bob
WWSN

Its been 2 weeks Bob.. stil waiting........
Concerned
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 11:00 AM
"All LIFEWAVE - All The Time"

Bob, you have absolutely lost your mind! This is so sad.
Nanoman
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 11:14 AM
EDHUK,

Great reply! You really got me this time ED!!

And Bob, Yes I do have credentials but I do not post them on spam forums like this so that you can put stuff on your spam sites and fill peoples junk mail with your spam emails.
hcmomof4
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 11:59 AM
Gee, how come I never got any spam mail from here? Or from WWSN? MSN has the easiest filters in the world to get through. Gosh, nobody likes me...
Concerned
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 12:24 PM
Bill Nott, the "key player" Bob Burtis is referring to is William Grand. He is no longer with LifeWave acting as their compliance director. I'm sure he had other responsibilities.

For various reasons people move on. It happens all the time and don't forget there is a new guy in charge (Mike Collins). Perhaps it was part management decision.
Bill Nott
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 01:37 PM
I went to high school with a bob burtis,, you dident go to Norton high did ya Bobby ? I would just fall over dead if that this is the same guy lol
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 04:04 PM
Nanoman

Referring to James Randi $1 Million challenge.

"I have told you already that this site & contest is not for LW. It is for paranormal activity and this does not fit LW which is new science. Plus he would be one of those that would do a study and publish false data against LW just as you have been describing in the previous posts."

You reveal yourself as a PLAIN LIAR!

Nothing more, nothing less. In black and white you are lying.

James Randi has cleared the patches for testing. The details have been posted here time after time after time.

For you to lie in this manner means you cannot read; well we know that's not the case; have no memory; maybe you don't.

Do not persist in LYING about the James Randi challenge. It makes you look even smaller than the tiny irrelevant thing you are.

LIAR.
!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 04:55 PM
Nanoman

Jim Caldwell stands by his assertion that he is selling a product that works.

He has the guts to step up to the plate and give his details.

Jim Caldwell
Executive Creative Director
Future Thunder Productions, Inc.
http://www.futurethunder.com
4500 Woodman Ave. Ste D101
Sherman Oaks, Ca 91423
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
http://www.dolifewave.com
PH 818 986 9494
FX 818 986 6644
Cell 818 687 3935

You are a gutless wonder...and a liar to boot.

*
Nanoman
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 10:55 PM
ED,

All you can resort to now is personal attacks. Now I am a liar....what makes me a liar?? And you wonder why I choose to stat anonymous. Are you delusional from sitting in front of your computer all day?? How many people have you chased away from this site with your personal attacks. I have come to realize that you have an agenda to personally attack and scare off all those who have tried the LW patches. Are you working for JREF, Bob, or are you a professional "googler"? The JREF is about as reliable as a ouija board. WWSN deserves to be shut down for illegally spamming LW distrubutors. (Yes it has happenend on numerous occasions. HCMOMOF4 - you would also get these spam mails if you were a LW distributor.) ED- Seems like I touched a touchy bone in your body. The JREF is all about paranormal activity. As distributors, we don't have to worry about conducting research as it would not be independent. Instead we let LW approach independent professionals to conduct valid research.

If you can't reply with anything other than personal insults, "why don't you go to JREF?" WHere are the studies?" .....then please don't waste our time.
Joe
Member
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 | 11:57 PM
Who cares if the JREF is about paranormal activity. You're telling me that you would not grab a million dollars because of the classification of the contest (even though Lifewave has been accepted)?

And most importantly, after proven, everyone would say, congratulations, and this forum would end. We would then buy patches from you. I would, if those claims were proven to be true. So a million bucks plus free advertising and a huge jump in business. But you don't want it, why?
Joe
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 12:06 AM
I'm not trying to back you into a corner and attack you. I'm just questioning this business decision not to purse the challenge.

Based upon my observation, this Lifewave project is a business and these distributors are in it to make money. They may feel that they are helping people, but looking at the high cost of these patches, it looks like a profit-oriented business.

The next logical step would then to supplement this income with more money (makes sense to me). $1 million is a great boost for anyone. Any great CEO or CFO knows that if there is a great business opportunity for the company to take advantage of with little cost, then that cost-benefit analysis would steer the CEO or CFO to pursue that path.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 02:40 AM
Nanoman said:

"The JREF is about as reliable as a ouija board."

Exactly on what do you base that comment, Nanoman? Are you going to resort to the old canard "Randi doesn't have the money" even though the information about where the money is held is right on his site?

Or are you going to fall back on "Randi will rig any test so that LifeWave fails" even though the rules clearly state that he will have NO part in any testing and all protocols have to be agreed to by all parties before any testing commences?

Hey, how about if you go with "the patches only work if there isn't a skeptic present"? Don't laugh; that's been used by potential claimants to the Million Dollars in the past.

I find it fascinating that, time after time, you say we don't know what we're talking about because we don't want to try the patches but you won't submit them to proper scientific testing, even though you stand to win a MILLION DOLLARS. Even with a tremendous "upside" like that, you still won't allow the patches to be tested, something that might take an afternoon of your time. If I were in your position and I truly believed in my product, wild horses couldn't keep me away from the Challenge. I'd be making plans for how to spend my million bucks. You, however, apparantly can't spare a day out of your busy schedule to pick up a measly million dollars.

As I've said before, I don't believe that it has to be David Schmidt or any of the top execs at LifeWave who apply for the million dollars. Since a lot of LifeWave distributors seem to read this forum (or at least be aware of it), why don't one of you entrepreneurs contact Randi and start the process for testing the patches? Come on, ONE of you must want a cool million for just demonstrating how effective the LifeWave patches are. Unless, of course, you all know what a load of crap this all is. Nah, that can't be it.
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 07:05 AM
Ive been doing a lot of reading on our dear friend james Randy... and i have to say that he is one of the biggest idiots that Ive come across... he is so ignorant to so many facts that it boggles my mind..

here is a small excerpt of his writings , just for ONE example..


Our hearts went pitapat when we received the news that the purveyors/inventors of the LifeWaveTM Patch were all set to snap up the JREF million-dollar prize. This involves a stick-on patch that is said to produce dramatic physical changes in the human body without actually delivering any substances to the system. Look at http://lifewave.com/main to see their product described. They make some characteristically inane and sham-science statements that clearly mark their claims as quackery. Try these three on for size:

....the LifeWaveTM Technology in the patches communicates with the body through the human magnetic field. This is known as frequency modulation and resonant energy transfer.

" There is no human magnetic field " James Randy.........


Now this is a direct quote from james Randis website.... " There is no human magnetic field " ...

Now the human magnetic field has been discovered and known by science for many many years... its a documented fact..... but our dear James Randy seems to think that it does not exsist... what can we make of that ???

The world is surrounded by magnetic fields: some generated by the earth's magnetism, others generated by solar storms and changes in weather. Magnetic fields are also created by electrical devices (e.g. motors, televisions, office equipment, computers, microwave ovens, electrical wiring in homes, power lines). Even the human body produces a subtle magnetic fields generated by chemical reaction within cells and ionic currents of the nervous system. An electromagnetic field (EMF) is composed of both an electric and a magnetic field. The electric field is due to the presence of charged particles (such as electrons) and the magnetic field is due to the movement of the charged particles (such as an electron current). Recently, scientist discover that external magnetic fields affect the body's functioning in both positive and negative ways. The observation of this led to the establishment of magnetic field therapy.

This is world wide known and accepted documented science.... go google it...

James Randy... lol ,, how sad................
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 07:24 AM
And yet another example of james randi incredible ignorance..


"Frequency modulation" is a broadcasting term and a technology not in any way related to biological processes. "

This is yet another direct quote from a James Randi website , and yet again completely wrong.. another simple google search will show that frequency modulation and biology go hand in hand...


Gradual frequency modulation patterns correspond to pressure variation in the interclavicular air sac but not to pressure variation in the cranial thoracic air sac or air flow rate variation in the trachea. The cause of abrupt jumps in frequency has not been identified but can be explained on the basis of intrinsic properties of the vocal organ. Air sac pressure variation as a mechanism for frequency modulation contrasts with the specialized syringeal musculature of songbirds and may explain why the fundamental frequency in non-songbird vocalizations is generally modulated within a limited frequency range.

HMMMMM... yes... i think James Randi wouldn't except " Proof " that water is wet if you dumped a bucket on his head ,, let alone judge if LifeWave did what it claimed...

Give me a break people............
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 07:59 AM
And yet another wise statment from your hero.....


"Resonant energy transfer" is sheer technobabble
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 09:03 AM
Bill,

The next time you search for and cut and paste random technobable off the Internet, at least make sure you get it from the same subject. Your sudden expertise in magnetic fields is amazing. Are you hoping people will be too intimidated by the terminology to verify it? Who do you think talking to on this forum? Lifewave customers?

First you seem to think we don't believe magnetic fields exist at all. Of course they do. They even come from humans too since the body uses electrical implulses to the nerves and muscles. Those fields would be confined to path of each individual nerve action for the brief period of that nerve action occurred and of course would be extremely weak. But this is true for any electrical conductor. Mariners have long known they must keep the ship's compass away from all electrical disturbances to minimize deviation. But they don't have to keep humans away from it. Do you wonder why? It's because humans have no significant magnetic field.

As far as a field encompassing the whole body and cells reacting to it or being manipulated by a pactch, you're talking horse-hockey. Please supply evidence from the peer-reviewed journals that agree with these quacks you cut and pasted from.

And what's with the bird singing crap? What the fuck does that have to do with magnetic fields????? You are confusing electrical frequencies with sound frequencies (mechanical vibrations). Your're out of your league Bill. Perhaps you had better start listening to people such as James Randi who has excellent critical thinking skills (and a perfect record in exposing frauds) and is backed up by experts in real science including at least one Nobel Laureate.
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 09:10 AM
Al.. you and James should be roomates... your both complete idiots who cant see the forest throught the trees........
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 09:14 AM
James randi says.."there IS NO HUMAN MAGNETIC FIEL"... there is...

James randi says..... " frequency modulation is not in anyway related to a biological process " It is...


Poor angry lil Al.......
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 09:22 AM
Nanoman.

Thank you so much for proving my point once again as you have just LIED again.

The difference between us is that you do not have an original thought in your head.

Every point you bring to this forum as one of your own comes straight from the LifeWave website.

Please expalain how Bob Burtis was able to spam anybody from the WWSN site?

You keep referring to me as ED. Who is ED?

You once again LIED about the Million bucks.

James Randi has accepted the LifeWave patches for his challenge...period.

What part of that simple concept DO YOU NOT GET!

You can do the challenge, and because you assure us the patches are genuine, you are 100% certain to be $1 Million richer. What part of that moronically simple concept DO YOU NOT GET?

"As distributors, we don't have to worry about conducting research as it would not be independent. Instead we let LW approach independent professionals to conduct valid research."

OH PULEESE!

You are so thin in the brain cell department you don't even realize when you shoot youreself in the foot!

Dr. Lauren DeRock IS A LIFEWAVE DISTRIBUTOR!

Yet, she is the person who has the AMAZING study about to be published in a well respected VET JOURNAL.

DUH

What part of that don't you get NANOBOY.

Please continue to contribute as thinking people the world over can see you and LifeWave for what you really are.

EDH UK
*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 09:36 AM
Bill Nott,

You and I have emailed one another and I repsect your use of the patches.

To mindlessly post info about a subject you clearly do not understand is both detrimental to you and insulting to many readers of this forum.

You appear to be seriously implying you are more intelligent than James Randi.

Your usefullness on this forum is now officially OVER.

Sorry Bill.

Dave

EDH UK
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 04:38 PM
My dear Dave.. so it seems that your the official spokesmen for this forum as to what is useful and what is not, and the time frames for such ?? ... is this a self appointed position Dave ?? hmmm..

And i notice that the subject matter of my posts has not been addressed at all.... double hmmm..

Is anyone going to dispute the fact that the all wise and knowing Mr Randi was COMPLETELY wrong in his THREE statements ??

I personal believe that its a serious blow to his credibility when he is so blatantly wrong about what obviously is the truth... Mr. randi you see does not deal in truth... he deals in lies.. sure.. Mr Randi may have uncovered a few scams in his day... a real scam is easy to uncover... but when confronted with something new , true and powerful.. hes way out of his league....
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 04:42 PM
This is a clarification for our deal Capt Al , before he flys off the handle because he mis read the meaning of my post once again.....

When i say that Mr. Randi deals in lies... im referring to the fact that his job has been to try and uncover lies that people proclaim as truth....

calm down Capt.......
Bill Nott
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 04:55 PM
Something just struck me as incredibly funny.....

Ive just uncovered the fact that your precious James Randi made some serious statement boo boos that proves that he was VERY wrong about some well known scientific issues... and at that same exact time.. my usefulness to this post is officially over.........

wow.. anyone else see the humor in this ????

To funny.... lololol...........
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 06:06 PM
Bill, no twisting or turning you do can or will obscure the fact that NOT ONE LifeWave distributor will take a challenge that would net them ONE MILLION DOLLARS for simply proving the claims they make about the product they sell.

If James Randi was a drooling idiot, it wouldn't change the Challenge in any way. If anything, that would make it easier to take his money. Your determination to avoid taking his million dollars for simply proving the claims you have made repeatedly for the LifeWave patches just serves to increase suspicion that you know full well that the patches do NOT do what you say they do.

As I said before, if I was selling something as "revolutionary" as LifeWave and I truly believed in my product, wild horses couldn't keep me away from taking the Million Dollar Challenge. You, on the other hand, run from it. I think we are entitled to draw the obvious conclusion from that.
Joel
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 10:09 PM
Bill Nott,

I am an electrical engineer. Your cut-and-paste job about bird songs as somehow contradicting what James Randi said about
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 | 05:14 AM
Joel

I think the points Bill raised bring us to another issue, one that has caused problems for many posters.

When people search for answers on the internet, they often look at the first page of results as "gospel".

Of course, as illustrated by Lifewave, if you look at the results for a "LifeWave" search, they are mostly the main website and it's clones...all positive upbeat, buy me now, material.

It takes time to get to the bottom of most searches. Looking at many pages of material, using different search terms etc.

As you have pointed out, it also takes a certain level of understanding to filter out the clearly absurd.

I know that Bill is genuine in his belief that the patches do something good for him and other members of his family. Obviously, the skeptics here, me included, happen to believe he is placing his faith in a man who is a slick salesman with no real product.

I also believe that Bill is one of the few, if not only, posters who will step up to the plate and admit he was fooled by LifeWave should that come to pass.

We can assume that most of the other LifeWave faithful will scatter into their dark holes when the light is finally turned on.

In that sense, Bill, misguided though I believe him to be, will be head and shoulders above the likes of nanoboy.

*
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 Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.