The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
Page 26 of 99 pages ‹ First  < 24 25 26 27 28 >  Last ›
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 | 02:41 PM
Powerofthemind

My previous reference to recent work on pain control with a placebo has confirmed your point nicely.

It has long been thought that a placebo must have more of an effect than just the power of suggestion. The PET scans have revealed changes in the subject's brains consistent with changes that would have been seen if genuine pain killers had been used. The subjects manufactured pain killers without realizing it.

People using the patches and believing they are for real are setting themselves up to expect an effect and some possibly get an effect. But the extra energy has been provided by their own thoughts and subsequent changes in the body, not because of a glucose and glycerin patch.

To date, no one has designed an elegant study that completely rules out the effect of the subject's own thoughts. A study that geneuinely does an "apples to apples" comparison without the influence of subject or study personnel.

I believe the reason such a study has not been forthcoming is that the scientific community has no interest whatsoever in the MLM scam.

Scientific thinkers would take very little time in realizing David Schmidt's claims are implausable and laughable.

It must give DS great comfort to think that no real scientist will waste any time at all in putting his patches to the test.

The one opportunity to prove to the scientific community the validity of his claims was shrugged off along with a host of excuses.(J Randi Challenge).

Ever onward DS The money keeps rolling in. You are going to have a bumper Christmas.

$
andyxxx
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 | 03:22 PM
by the way i have never sold their patches to any body if that what you mean i was just testing them to see if they worked has iam a boxer.so if you are saying i am thick you are right to say so.did they work for me no they did not . food works for my ok sorry for being not has wise has you.andy
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 | 03:54 PM
andyxxx

I presume you are the same person who posted as andy.

I am NOT saying you are thick! You are using the computer to post on this forum aren't you?

I know that boxers in the UK have thought about trying the patches, but I think people are slowly beginning to realize LifeWave patches are a worthless SCAM.

As a boxer, you have already proved to yourself that a good diet and a proper training schedule can do much more that a set of worthless patches from LifeWave.

Good luck with your boxing.

EDHUK
Rolan
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 | 10:50 PM
I think you have been hit in the head way too many times.
woodbutcher01
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 | 11:48 PM
You know - it boggles my mind that so many "informed, all knowing" people can sit there and say "These things are bogus - they don't work - just snake oil - yada yada" and yet they've never given them a shot !! Too bad someone couldn't come out with a devise that gave a person a quick jolt of electricity every time they spoke about something they knew nothing about....there'd be a lot of "twitching people" on here !!!!
Merry Christmas..... 😊
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 | 12:21 AM
woodbutcher said:

"You know - it boggles my mind that so many "informed, all knowing" people can sit there and say "These things are bogus - they don't work - just snake oil - yada yada" and yet they've never given them a shot !!"

All we ask is that you prove what you claim under controlled conditions. If you can't do that (and so far there is NO evidence that you can), then we have NO reason to believe your claims.

Why don't you believers just prove that they work? Afraid?
Woodbutcher01
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 | 12:27 AM
Afraid....? No - I didn't think they could do anything, but I figured I had nothing to lose by trying them ; and ya know what.......for me...they worked !! That was the proof I needed, and if you tried them yourself and in all honesty could say they did nothing for you, then that would be the proof you need to back up your claim that they don't work, right?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 | 07:00 AM
Woodbutcher01

I don't blame you for not reading previous postings on this forum. This is page 85 after all!

However, your point has been made MANY times before and answered MANY times also.

You tried the patches and you experienced something. What does this prove? It does not prove the patches do as the company claims, increase energy.

Did you experience a placebo effect? Possibly. The company claims the patches are non-transdermal, but the published report is highly suspect as LifeWave told the company that the patches contained glucose (brown) and glycerin (white)and nothing else!

You can't get an effect from a placebo, right?

Wrong. Demonstrable changes in the brain have now been positively identified using PET scanning technology. Subjects given a saline placebo when they believed it to be analgesia brought about the production of pain killing substances in the brain.

So, am I saying you didn't get an effect when you used the patches?

NO. What I am saying is that you should consider the possibility that you experienced a placebo effect and paid a scam artist for the pleasure of sticking worthless band aids on your body.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Merry Christmas

p.s.

WWSN1 HAS tried the patches. More accurately, he has reported on this forum that his wife tried them and experienced nothing.

EDHUK
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 | 07:03 AM
Woodbutcher01

Correction. It may have been CMG's wife who tried them. Somebody's wife tried them! They didn't do anything for her.

*
Turd Ferguson
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 | 05:15 PM
I too believe these patches "release" energy due to placebo. (I know they don't release)

I suggest a test, I will do it, or maybe someone on here will do it. But we should go to gyms in our local area and give out stickers or some type of patch that sticks to the skin. We will then tell them that it gives out energy and will allow more repetitions in working out and longer endurance. Then take a survey and ask how many people actually felt energy due to the patches.

I'll do it.

But try to find stickers that don't have cute little flowers on it. Try to make them look scientific. I mean if you say that nanotechnology is involved then it must be real right? Only in the mind.

Let's try it.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 | 05:19 PM
EDHUK said:

"Correction. It may have been CMG's wife who tried them. Somebody's wife tried them! They didn't do anything for her."

Yes, it was my wife. She felt NO effect from them at all.
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 03:52 AM
I have all but begged for a chance to try them. But I'm not willing to pay for them first, with a promise of my money back. I want someone to send me the patches, and I'll send money if they work. Heck, if they work well enough, I'll have the energy to run the money somewhere.

Seriously... I really, really, really need some extra energy. I would likely join the ranks of those who say they don't care if it's only a placebo, especially since my prescription of sugar pills has recently run out...
Rolan
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 06:22 AM
hcmomof4,
I have discovered that if you smear dog poop all over your feet, you will get tons of energy. Remember, if you follow the lifewavers line of thinking, you at least have to try it before you can say it doesnt work. I mean really.... you must try it. It really works!!! Dont believe the skeptics here who say it wont. They have not tried it. They are afraid to try it. You should not be afraid too.
I will send you some poop for only 99 dollars. If you dont get a 75% increase in energy, I will refund your money. The nice thing is that even if its a placebo and works, who cares? All I want is the increase in energy and I dont care how i get it.
Rolan
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 06:30 AM
Woodbutcher,
I hear there is a new device out there that gives a person a quick jolt of electricity every time they speak about something they knew nothing about. Please dont mock my poop method, as you know nothing about it since you have not tried it. I do not want to be responsible for your twitching you moron.
woodbutcher01
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 05:36 PM
Hi Rolan,
First off - I don't recall mocking your poop method ; and if it gives you better endurance, then that's great. Far as the $99.00 goes, I have 2 dogs myself, and I've stepped in it a few times. If it DID work for me, I wouldn't have to buy any from you because I probably have about a quarter million dollars worth in the bush behind our house !! EDHUCK - your wife isn't the first person by any means to find they weren't effective, same thing I suppose as me in that that Bufferin doesn't work for me but Advil does. Anyway ; Merry Christmas to you too - Cheers
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 05:37 PM
I think Rolan is onto something here. After all, he is using the same "logic" the LifeWave defenders employ. PLUS, dog poop is a renewable resource. We aren't likely to run out of it any time soon.

Yes, seriously, LifeWavers, you can't possibly criticize his proposal if you haven't tried it. So, start smearing! Let us know how it works for you. You have absolutely NO reason not to try this, so hop to it.
woodbutcher01
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 05:49 PM
Just tried the dog doo ---- couldn't believe the results !! Found I could run like stink !
Hey EDHUCK - just was thinkin' , probably a good thing they didn't work for your wife cuz if you were chasing her around the house you'd never catch her....!!!!!

Have a good evening.
woodbutcher01
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 06:05 PM
I've been thinking about Rolands idea - and you know - it might fly . Just think; people could get into the business at entry level by purchasing a bag of BASIC MUTT, or they could upgrade to the second level by getting a box of CLASSIC SPRINGER, - or - if they wanted to really get involved - they could get in at the turd (sorry) third level buy getting a package of LASSIE GOLD !!
You might be onto something.....
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 | 06:16 PM
woodbutcher01

Not sure who EDHUCK is, but if you read previous postings you will see I mentioned someone's wife tried the patches with no results.

CMG confirmed it was his wife.

Meanwhile during this nice little interlude David Schmidt continues to marvel at how effective autoship is in putting monthly sums of money into his bank account.

The basic point hasn't changed.

There is not one shred of evidence, other than anecdotal, that the patches do anything by direct action for the $100 a month.

NO EVIDENCE that this is anything more than a SCAM.

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 | 09:28 AM
Scam Scam Scam

Scam Scam Scam

Scam Scam ___ Scam _____ ScamScam

Scam Scam Scam Scam Scam Scam Scam

Scam Scam Scam_____ ScamScam

Seasons Greetings *****
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 10:38 AM
It's all over for LifeWave sticky energy patches!

http://www.clarus.com/index.shtml

Much more sophisticated, right?

Sorry David Schmidt.

This scam looks much better than your scam.

Ho ho ho.

:o) :o)

************************************************
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 10:49 AM
Does this neat trick sound familiar?

It's afternoon and we're in for a real treat. Herbert Ross from Q-Link is on-stage explaining his product. I immediately get the impression that this guy is very nervous. He is definitely not at ease on-stage. Joseph mentions that the following demonstration will be put on one of Tony's distribution tapes.

Tony! Don't do it! Can you hear me? Don't! It's the "arm test." Again, some guy from the audience is invited on stage and asked to hold a cell-phone to his ear in his right hand and stretch out his left arm horizontally to the side.

Herbert explains that the EMF from the cell-phone will weaken him and proceeds to show how easy it is to pull down the subject's outstretched left arm.

Now the Q-Link pendant is placed around the guy's neck. Cell-phone back to ear and look! Herbert can't pull down the arm anymore! It doesn't seem to occur to anyone that if Herbert did pull the arm down, he would humiliate himself.

Furthermore, his subject, being human, is on-stage for possibly the first time in his life and wants nothing more than to help make Herbert look good.

http://www.randi.org/jr/090602.html

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 11:05 AM
It gets better.

"Sometimes a form of quackery is promoted with such a breathtaking arrogance, duplicity, and disregard both for the truth and for the lives and welfare of potential victims that it almost defies belief.

The parlour trick of pretending to test muscle strength by pushing against some muscle group and then doing it again under supposedly different circumstances is well known."

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/cra.htm


Now we know it must be the real deal.

Kevin Trudeau uses it!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/22/AR2005102201272.html

"Over the years, Trudeau, an ex-con who never went to college or medical school, has been remarkably successful doing infomercials for everything from how to achieve a photographic memory to how to cure your addictions to how to beat cancer by ingesting a particular type of calcium that, as fate would have it, he also happened to sell."

*
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 12:51 PM
One Q-Link pendant does the same thing as two Lifewave patches? There's no way that can work. Ask any Waver. You need two of them to complete the circuit. How dumb do they think we are?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 03:34 PM
And let's not forget this entry on the Hoax Forum

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/2924/

What's a chap to do. Which Chip, Patch, Sticker,
Pendant should we buy?

Can we ever survive the EMF onslaught?

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 06:36 PM
Bob

As you know only too well, the human brain (mind)is an amazing thing. Not only can it synchronize the control of our muscles so that we can walk down a flight of stairs without falling over (most of the time!, it also has a wonderful array of protective mental mechanisms.

These mechanisms sometimes come in to play when we are in mental conflict. Some LifeWavers genuinely believe in the product and are currently putting these protective mechanisms to good use, subconsciously of course, to avoid facing the reality of the LIFEWAVE SCAM.

David Scmidt is nothing more than someone who has read a bunch of articles and selectively stolen the best bits to "create" his invention.

I wonder what he's working on now to replace this scam?

???
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 08:25 PM
Who remembers "The Wizard of Oz"?

The Lion, Scarecrow and Tin Man, all thought they were missing something in their lives.

That "something" was given to them in concrete form.

The Lion was given a medal before he could be courageous.

The Tin Man was given a heart so that he could be kind.

The Scarecrow was given a diploma to enable him to think he was bright.

The power of suggestion is very powerful.

LifeWave LLC has appealed to people with something missing in their lives. Through the power of the Internet they have suggested that sticking worthless glucose (brown) and glycerin(white) patches to the body will bring about increases in strength, or less pain, or sleep, or relief from muscle strains or, or, or...

The Lion, the Tin Man and the Scarecrow eventually realized they had the abilities within them from the start.

Got LifeWave?

Need LifeWave?

**
Mike
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 09:19 AM
Ya Know,
I just found this forum, and am surprised at the amount of time some people will waste....

If you don't like what you hear on a radio station, just change the channel, don't spend your life bitching about it....

if you don't like/believe in the product, just don't buy it for God's sake.... GROW UP! (by the way, I don't use these, sell then, research tme or believe/disbelieve any claims they make.)

You are the kind of people that would build a million dollar house at the departure end of a runway at a major airport, then complain about the airplane noise!

just my opinion, You guys all have one, I do too...

Have a nice day wasting your time coplaining about thins you should just ignore if they bother you!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 10:21 AM
Mike,

Perhaps you can spare some of your superiorly managed time browsing the web to read this. This forum is not about complaining. It's about defending science and reason.

I suspect you think things like Lifewave patches will not affect your life if you ignore them but that's not true. There is an increasing number of scientific and medical scams appearing these days. It is essential that we expose them since people and government are under increasing pressure to adopt unproven methods and products some of which may be harmful if people use them in place of real treatment. There are a lot of people, such as the elderly, who are particularly vulnerable to scams especially when they are wrapped in what appears to be legitimate scientific jargon. With the amazing progress being made in real science, it's sometimes hard to separate fact from fiction (scam). The "complainers" here are just trying to give the other side of the story.

If you care about where you tax dollars get spent and truth in advertising, then it is in your best interest to stay informed and perhaps even contribute. The Museum of Hoaxes is one way spread the voice of reason in the growing world of fraud and flim flam.

P.S. It really doesn't take that much time.
Mike
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 11:38 AM
Ok, What about the Vioxx scam...... or the Phen-Phen Diet scam, where people ignored all the package inserts on the drug literature, and blamed others for their own igrorance or refusal to believe the established facts?

(In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I am referring to the fact that every piece of literature put out by the drug manufacturer specifically listed all of the adverse effects, they werent hiding anything. just because people refuse to take responsibility for thier own actions, the drug manufacturers (in this case) along with the rest of humanity suffer so some self serving greedy individuals can sue a major corporation.


Do you "protect" those people too?
Pabl
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 01:55 PM
Hi, i came accross a newspaper article that talked about players of the FC Barcelona using the patches.

Given that I am a scientist, I am a skeptic about this product. However, as an athlete I would like it to be real.

I want to do a self experiment:


day 1: 1hr workout
day 2: rest
day 3: 1 mile time trial
day 4: 1 hr workout
day 5: rest
day 6: 1 mile time trial

In days 1 and 4 I would do exactly the same workout.

In days 1 and 3 I would use the Patches from box A

In days 4 and 6 I would use the Patches from box B

The thing is, I will not know if the Patches in Box A or in Box B are the real ones.

I need 4 sets of patches, and I will remove the "substance" from 2 of the sets, and I will put them in one of the two identical boxes. I will keep the other two sets in the other box

I will randomly select one of the boxes for days 1 & 3 and the other box for days 4 and 6.

Questions for you:

other than practice or fatigue effects (which I cant think of how to control, and I dont know what direction they will have, can anybody see a fatal flaw in the design (of course N=1 is bad, but it is a start)

Will any distributor in or near Chicago be willing to donate all or some of the patches for this experiment? I promise that if there is a difference of 10 seconds or more, I will buy a 1 month supply

Thanks
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 05:59 PM
Mike,

What the hell does "people taking responsibility for their own actions" have to do with this thread? The only concern here is whether or not Lifewave Energy Patches do what the manufacturer claims. Nothing else.

This thread started because someone saw the product advertised and had serious doubts about it. Since then many people have claimed they derive some benefit from wearing the patches but none have been able to prove the patches were responsible. Even the manufacturer refuses to conduct any proper tests, even one which would have won them $1,000,000! All they do is say, "try them". Hardly scientific and hardly the expected reaction of a legitimate company.

Until we uncover the truth, how can people make responsible choices about using them?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 06:19 PM
Pabl,

I see several flaws in the design of your experiment. First of all, your experiment involves only one test subject. How can you assume your body will perform the same everyday? What about fluid intake, other activities participated in and varying weather conditions on the different days?

In fact your experimental design is so flawed it make me suspicious of your claim to be a scientist. If you are a scientist, why do you want to start your investigation by trying the product? Perhaps you should start by researching the manufacturer's theory of operation. Someone with an advanced education should easily be able to spot the flaws in Lifewave's explanation of how their product works.

For instance, the claim they transmit information to body cells and alter their function should set off alarms. It should not take you long to determine if this can even be done. Then research what qualifications a person would likely need to develop such a product. If you find that a person with a two year business diploma could possibly do it, then maybe it is worthwhile to proceed with product testing.

Perhaps I am mistaken and you have already done a preliminary investigation and determined the idea behind Lifewave patches is feasible. In that case I apologize and ask that you tell us all about it.
Pabl
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 08:14 PM
Al,

Obviously N=1 will not produce a publishable study. But listen, it is better than what any of the sales reps have or will ever do. In addition, I know that my time in a mile trial does not vary by more than 10 seconds in such a short period of time. I am well trainined enough to be fairly consistent.

Of course, I agree with you, that there seems to be no theoretical reason to believe the claims of the patch cheerleaders; however, given that people are spending money in it, and some serious athletes have endorsed it, it is worth testing it empirically.

Given the dismissive and somewhat patronizing tone of your previous message, I dont think you will agree with the points I have tried to make in this post. But I guess I have learned that being critical is not the only way to be smart, and for that "personal philosophy" reason, I will carry out my toy experiment, as a "divertimento"
WaterS
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 09:24 PM
Finally.....a placebo that works!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 09:39 PM
Pabl,

I wasn't trying to stop you from experimenting. I'm just saying the results will be meaningless.

You say your time in the mile never varies by more than 10 seconds? How did you reach that conclusion? If everytime you run the mile you fall down exhausted, vomiting and almost dead at the finish, then you have a pretty good idea what your best time is. But if you have merely learned how to pace yourself to get a consistent time, then how then can you judge any difference made by the patches?

What happens as you approach the finish? Your experience will probably tell you if you are ahead or behind your normal time. Will you subconsciously speed up or slow down? You might even speed up or slow down purposely to affect the results. We wouldn't know. Therefore all the scientific value of your testing is lost.

I suppose if you are experimenting for your own personal knowledge then you may not care about strict controls. But how do you rule out any variation caused by the placebo effect? The only effective way to overcome that is to use hundreds of test subjects and devise a way for them to not know when they are wearing the patches.

All that aside, I still think you should investigate the validity of the theory behind the patches first. You might save yourself a lot of trouble.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 09:52 PM
Pabl

What area of science are you involved in? How long have you been working in science and what degrees do you hold?

How will you be able to apply the patches to your body without noticing some of them will have no (liquid) content and thus be lighter in weight?

If you indeed were to find a difference in your training times what will that prove?

I apologize for appearing to be just another skeptic, but if you read ALL the posts on this site you will see that previous, apparently genuine posters, have turned out to be anything but.

LifeWave has promised "faithfully" that bona fide "studies" will be published "soon".

These "studies" are to appear in widely accepted and respected Scientific Journals any moment now. Promised after the Las Vegas show we wait and wait to find out the explanation behind this incredible invention.

With regard to "serious athletes" who have endorsed the product. That rather implies that such athletes cannot have been fooled by this scam and their endorsement implies authenticity.

This forum is somewhat a waiting game. Now on page 87, it does have the flavor of "It works" or "It's a scam" and you choose which side of the argument to believe depending on your type of reasoning.

If the skeptics are proved wrong, and David Schmidt has indeed found a way to "control" our body cells, medical science will beat a path to his doorway. I will sing his praises from the rooftops.

If, however, David Schmidt (MLM businessman) is selling placebo patches of glucose (brown) and glycerin (white) and is exposed as a fraud and scam artist, this forum thread will close. End of story.

I still feel confident as to the outcome.

As you say, it will be a divertissement for you, as it has been for me.

Regards,
EDHUK
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 12:39 AM
Mike said:

"If you don't like what you hear on a radio station, just change the channel, don't spend your life bitching about it....

"if you don't like/believe in the product, just don't buy it for God's sake.... GROW UP! (by the way, I don't use these, sell then, research tme or believe/disbelieve any claims they make.)

"You are the kind of people that would build a million dollar house at the departure end of a runway at a major airport, then complain about the airplane noise!

Mike, your airport analogy makes no sense. We skeptics didn't do something and then complain about the outcome. We believe that the LifeWave patches are fake and we're attempting to alert others to that fact. You take exception with that?

By the way, I'm curious: how did you happen to "stumble" across this forum? That seems odd for someone who had no previous interest in the LifeWave product. Just saying.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 12:51 AM
Mike said:

"Ok, What about the Vioxx scam...... or the Phen-Phen Diet scam, where people ignored all the package inserts on the drug literature, and blamed others for their own igrorance or refusal to believe the established facts?"

Do you honestly not see the difference between people ignoring clear warning labels and people defrauded by worthless (possibly harmful) products? Really?

My Ford Explorer has warning labels on the sun visor about taking tight turns at high speed because SUV's are more prone to tipping over than regular passenger cars.

OK, if I ignore that warning and make a tight turn at 80 MPH, causing it to tip over, you'd probably be justified to call me a dumbass.

Now suppose for a moment that the Explorer is prone to bursting into flames (this is purely hypothetical, of course). Suppose Ford knows about this but doesn't inform its customers. If I find out about this problem, am I wrong to inform other Explorer drivers? Why?

The sad fact is that there are some products which are useless and/or harmful and the public deserves to know about them. Why shouldn't citizens of good will alert others about them? Wouldn't YOU want to be warned before you spent your money on something useless/harmful?
Mike
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 07:20 AM
I leave you all to your fantasy of making the world a better place. i personally feel that your time might be better spent volunteering to help severely burned children, or doing some fund raising to help prevent/cure cancer (of course, no one in here belives in anyting positive.)

My fatehr once told me, "it's easy to be AGAINST something, but what are you FOR?"

No sense in wating your precious time to reply to me anymore, as I will not be wasting MY time to visit here anymore.

BTW, I stumbled across this thread because of a flaw in the "Google" search engine. maybe someone in here ought to "investigate" or shoudl I say "persecute" them for not placing a big warning label, "This search engine may direct you to a site you don't want to go to"...........


Enjoy your blissful state of ignorance!
Pabl
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 07:29 AM
Al, good point about pacing myself, but that just makes gives the test less power to detect the difference. What you are saying is correct, I might have a bias towards consistency. But the claim they make is a difference of 20% in energy! I should certainly be able to feel it. They are saying that people go from 10 to 15 reps. Surely 10 seconds in a mile is not asking for too much.

As of EDHUK comments, i wont play the "credentials" game. It is silly, I am not applying for a job or a federal grant; this is just a game. However, good point about the weight of the patches. If i can detect the difference between the medicated and the placebo patches, then, of course, the placebo effect would not be controlled for.

In any case, I think that the sekptics in this forum are missing an important point. I think it would be a good community service to do a real experiment (i know that mine is not) that debunks (or supports) Lifewave's claims. These things are creeping up in the mainstream media, and before we know it, masses of highschool athletes will start getting the patches; senior citizens will spend $ on them, etc. In science, nobody believes a new claim if it cannot be proved. In the real world, people will not stop believing these kinds of things until they are disproven.

EDHUK, the relevance of athletes endorsing these things is not that the cannot be fooled; it is that people will believe them.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 08:10 AM
It will come as no surprise to regular readers of this forum that the latest "new" posters, Mike and Pabl have followed the highly predictable response lines.

"No sense in wating your precious time to reply to me anymore, as I will not be wasting MY time to visit here anymore."

"...
i wont play the "credentials" game. It is silly, I am not applying for a job or a federal grant; this is just a game."

The problem is, the LifeWave LLC patches SCAM is far from a game. Many people have wasted cash on this placebo product. Worse still, some people have experienced a placebo effect and now believe in the product. What happens to these unfortunate people when their new found "miracle" product is taken off the market?

Some posters may view this forum as a joke. I do not.

As long as we see the likes of Mike I will continue to post my comments. I believe they are at least of equal importance to his.

Meanwhile, DS continues to make a lot of cash from this SCAM. Don't forget DS it's tax time. Hope you fill out your tax forms correctly!

*
Pabl
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 09:05 AM
EDHUK,

exactly for the reasons you mention.

"Many people have wasted cash on this placebo product. Worse still, some people have experienced a placebo effect and now believe in the product."

it is important to debunk this empirically.

I am tempted to answer your personal attacks, but instead I invite you to re-read the previous post. This time, with the goal of understainding the other person's point, as opposed to feeling that if you are super-critcical you are super-smart.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 09:20 AM
Mike said:
My fatehr [sic] once told me, "it's easy to be AGAINST something, but what are you FOR?"


I'm FOR truth and exposing pseudoscience. If Mike thinks that is somehow wrong, I can only conclude it's because he makes his living scamming people and is doing his best to discourage consumers from thoroughly researching a product before buying.

And why should we bother devoting our time to raise money for cancer research? According to Mike, you should just believe all those scams being offered that claim to cure it, if you're not too negative that is.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 11:45 AM
Pabl

Not quite sure what you perceived as a personal attack. You and I would know if I was to attack you personally!

At the end of the day, when you have conducted your experiment, trial, your results will be like so many others mentioned on this thread, anecdotal.

I totally agree that the effect promised from wearing the patches must be confirmed in a controlled scientific manner.

To date, not one properly conducted study has been carried out.

You state you are a scientist. Please put your skills to addressing this single point.

David Schmidt claims the patches send out "signals" to the human body to "make energy". He must know what the type of signal, frequency etc. is. How else could he do quality control when manufacturing the patches.

Obtain a patch and find out what frequency the patch is "transmitting".

Good luck!

Seriously, I wish you good luck.

*
Pabl
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 01:07 PM
thanks EDHUK,

I cannot address that point that you raise, and it seems that nobody else can. But that has not stopped people form buying the patches.

I note that non of the Lifewave's reps has volunteer to donate for my toy experiment.

By the way, check out this link

http://www.ghchealth.com/lifewave/beck.php

The most popular (i dont know why, by the way) athlete in the world is using these things.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 02:25 PM
Pabl

Beckham has been referred to earlier in this thread.

I also pointed out that when he wore the patches for the first time his team was soundly thrashed! Not a very good start. Beckham tends to be regarded as a bit of a chump by the Brits.

What was interesting is that Beckham was included in the LifeWave website as a "trophy" endorsement only to disappear within a few days. Also, the original article talked about Beckham and his pain control patches.

LifeWavers recently touted a radio broadcast as proof the patches were the real thing.

My posting of 11/19/05

As for the WOAI news piece. I corresponded with Don Harris on the show. He explained "I didn't endorse anything." "I understand that the science may be questionable, and I have my own doubts about the effectiveness of the product."

When I see things published I just go ahead and contact people. It's amazing how forthcoming people can be.

The UK has published other material of interest. From the WWSN site:

http://thesurfboard.net/download/Lifewave.pdf

The bottom line is that there are a number of respected people in the scientific community who have dubbed the LifWave phenomenom as a SCAM using pseudoscience.

David Schmidt doesn't really care one way or the other about opinions or this forum. As long as sales of the patches are legally allowed, he will continue to become very rich.

The scam is well below the radar of the scientific community as a whole. They have much better things to be working on than wasting a nanosecond opening plastic shells containing glucose and glycerin.

They leave bringing such scams to account to "others". The problem is that these other people, organisations, take an age to catch up with such scams.

Regards.

*
Waver
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 12:32 PM
This is especially for EDHUK and anyone else that wants to know what we heard in Las Vegas

https://backoffice.lifewave.com/membersonly/national_dvd.asp
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 01:01 PM
Waver

You have got me now!

What an impressive infomercial for the DVD!

Makes a person want to buy one right away.

When are the peer reviewed studies coming out? Which days in January 2006 can I check "Nature" and other respected Journals?

Thank you so much for thinking about me. Now that there's a DVD of the CONference in Las Vegas people will be able to PAY to see how genuine LifeWave is.

Thanks again.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 02:30 PM
Mike said:

"I leave you all to your fantasy of making the world a better place. i personally feel that your time might be better spent volunteering to help severely burned children, or doing some fund raising to help prevent/cure cancer (of course, no one in here belives in anyting positive.)"

How silly. I don't believe you're as stupid as that paragraph makes you appear; it's far more likely that you are, actually, a LifeWave distributor and are attempting to attack those who might jeopardize the income you derive from selling snake oil.

"My fatehr once told me, "it's easy to be AGAINST something, but what are you FOR?"

As others have pointed out, we're FOR stopping fraud.

"No sense in wating your precious time to reply to me anymore, as I will not be wasting MY time to visit here anymore."

I picture you tapping away in your high heels, like a woman in a 1940's movie.

"BTW, I stumbled across this thread because of a flaw in the "Google" search engine. maybe someone in here ought to "investigate" or shoudl I say "persecute" them for not placing a big warning label, "This search engine may direct you to a site you don't want to go to"..........."

Bullshit! Pardon my French, but I don't believe there's a "flaw" in Google. Silly, silly, silly.

"Enjoy your blissful state of ignorance!"

Enjoy selling snake oil to people. Hope you sleep well at night.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 03:26 PM
The only "fantasy" going on currently is the LifeWave fantasy.

The problem is, people need the fantasy of extra energy or pain relief, or better sleep, or a face lift etc.

They are willing to suspend disbelief in the hope that this scam product might actually do something.

New Year Resolution Suggestion:

I will try hard not to get scammed in 2006

Happy new Year!
hcmomof4
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 04:02 PM
Rolan,
Sorry it's taken a while to respond to your very generous offer, but my internet has been broken. This is what I'm commenting about:

I posted
"I have all but begged for a chance to try them. But I'm not willing to pay for them first, with a promise of my money back. I want someone to send me the patches, and I'll send money if they work. Heck, if they work well enough, I'll have the energy to run the money somewhere.

Seriously... I really, really, really need some extra energy. I would likely join the ranks of those who say they don't care if it's only a placebo, especially since my prescription of sugar pills has recently run out..."

You answered
"hcmomof4,
I have discovered that if you smear dog poop all over your feet, you will get tons of energy. Remember, if you follow the lifewavers line of thinking, you at least have to try it before you can say it doesnt work. I mean really.... you must try it. It really works!!! Dont believe the skeptics here who say it wont. They have not tried it. They are afraid to try it. You should not be afraid too.
I will send you some poop for only 99 dollars. If you dont get a 75% increase in energy, I will refund your money. The nice thing is that even if its a placebo and works, who cares? All I want is the increase in energy and I dont care how i get it."

You must not have read any of my previous posts, and you obviously missed the part of that one where I said I wasn't paying for anything before it worked. At which point, you'll just have to trust me to send the money. After all, I'm trusting you that paying $99 for dog poop will give me more energy...

But thanks all the same, I'd rather just stick to my sugar pills anyway.
Pabl
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 05:35 PM
A questions for the lifewave experts:

In 2005 the fastest woman in the USA was Lauryn Williams with a time of 10.88 Marcia Benton was the 42th with 11.55

The fastest Man was Justin Galtin, with 9.88

So, if the fastest Woman increses her perfomace by 10%, she would be faster than the fastest man.

If Marcia Benton (42th among the females) improved by 20%, she would be faster than the fastest man too.

The question is: What would happen if next year, the 2 girls start using the patches. Based on what you know about the product, what would be your prediction?

Thanks
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 06:41 PM
Pabl

I believe LifeWave used to boast up to 40% increase in energy. Now they say 20% increase in stamina.

In this link to a UK site the host uses the older information:

"Clinical and University studies show an average 35-40% increase in energy, performance and stamina."

http://www.softwareforthehumanbody.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/1409?opendocument&part=2

The UK site also states:

"Testing by 2 National Regulatory bodies confirms that nothing enters
the body."

What Regulatory Body?

Stamina, or staying power is a little different from increase in energy level is it not?

If I have a car that is 100 HP and I put a patch on it that makes it a 120 HP engine that's different from a 100 HP angine that can only run for a 100,000 miles compared to a 100 HP engine that can run for 120,000 miles, right?

Of course, the wonderful thing about the internet, and cloned websites, is that if LifeWave makes a change to a claim it is automatically changed on the cloned sites. Independent designed sites like our UK friend continue with older info until they are told to change it.

I'm being picky, I know. It really doesn't matter too much what LifeWave "claims" about their placebo product. They cannot prove one nanopoint to be true!

They rely on people being completely brainwashed by the volume of material out there. Now there's even the DVD to "convince" the sceptics!

For me, LifeWave continues to provide better entertainment than much of the TV offerings.

Right on LifeWave, the entertainers!

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 | 09:13 PM
Someone climbs a mountain so the product must be great, right?

http://www.clarus.com/q_who_has_feature.shtml

And it's not even LifeWave!

"You put your left scam in, your left scam out.

In out in out you shake it all about..."

*
br d
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 08:35 AM
I've been lurking since about page 20 and I'd like to thank everybody for a tremendous amount of entertainment - from both sides - and a happy New Year to you all! It's a pity Able seems to have given up though, I liked her.

For myself, I think it's all a load of old tosh and I'm constantly surprise that people fall for this sort of nonsense, but maybe they deserve all they get. It's all very well campaigning on behalf of the gullible but you can't hold their hands 24 hours a day, some people are just born to be fleeced I suppose. Still, here's hoping DS get's found out for the fraud he really is soon enough.

Btw, I got here after being told of the wonders of Lifewave by an ex girlfriend - who is still trying to convince me - (she just happens to be a distributor!) and doing a little digging around. I haven't the heart to send her a link to this site.
However, all the porn sites I've ever visited were purely the result of a flaw in Google.

Have a good one.

br d
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 09:58 AM
br d,

Thanks for not sending your ex-girlfriend a link to this site. If you did, I know exactly what would happen. We'd get a post that would say:

"I don't know how they work but they do!"
"How can you knock it if you haven't tried it?"
"David Schmidt just wants to share his wealth with everyone."
"If they don't work then why do dozens of professional athletes use them?"
"Ronnie Coleman uses them and he's won the Mr. Olympia 500 times!"
"They are endorsed by the NCAA and the NFL."
"The science is real."
"There are hundreds of studies that prove the patches work."
 etc, etc....

Then of course each new poster has some miraculous benefit to add to the list:

"I broke my leg but a friend gave me some patches to try and the next day I won the New York Marathon!"

I don't know how much more of this I can take. Thanks again br d.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 10:18 AM
Thanks br d. When something is so obviously fake, such as lifewave, it is so frustrating when it feels like all newcomers to the forumn can't see it. It's nice to see that at least 1 person out there was able to look at both sides constructively and pick the seemingly obvious answer.

Your post renews my faith in humanity.

Cheers!
Razela
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 10:44 AM
You mean a businessman can't sit at his kitchen table and work out how to get glucose and glycerine to "talk" to the body? From the outside?

"Instruct" the body to send fatty acids, not glucose, to enable a higher rate of energy production in mitochondria?

Keep this world shattering discovery to himself but meanwhile sell patches worldwide to amazed people for a measly hundred bucks a month?

It's all so believable, right?

Right!
br d
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 12:10 PM
:-)

My posts are renewing faith in humanity?
I should get DS to market that for me, I'd make a fortune.

We have a program on cable here in the UK called 'Most Haunted'. If you ever get the chance to watch it do so, it'll tell you all you need to know about fools. Thousands of people ring this program each week swearing they've seen ghosts and visions behind the presenters. The main presenter is a rather attractive lady called Yvette, or something.
A favourite 'apparition' of theirs is an 'Orb', which is quite obviously someone shining a torch on the wall. Anyway, watching this tripe one night I texted in "When Yvette turned around I clearly saw a pair of Orbs!". This eventually came up on the bottom of the screen followed by countless endorsements from loonies who'd also seen the "Yvette orbs". You couldn't make it up.

To ED, CMG, Bob, Razela and co. You should really consider putting aside your sense of morality and cooking something up yourselves. With your combined knowledge of all this claptrap you could invent a religion and clean up. Make a few million then give half of it to charity to ease your combined conscience (hey, they wouldn't have got it otherwise right?).

Keep up the good work guys.

br d
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