The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 05:04 PM
Able to fly said:

"My son only wears the patches when he plays competition or trains on Saturdays because that is when he will be pushed to the point where he normally has difficulty breathing."

Are you sure it's your son? Maybe he's the son of one of your other personalities. The pirate perhaps. Or he COULD be the son of your "friend" with whom you "share" the IP address.

Why it's almost as if you have no credibility with me anymore.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 05:09 PM
Able to fly said:

"It is one thing if you choose to be sarcastic on a forum, but to ACCUSE ME OF TELLING LIES IS GOING TOO FAR."

Nice try claiming that the multiple personalities thing was a joke. At the time you said that you were DIAGNOSED with them. Do you want me to take you at your word or not?

The available evidence strongly suggests that you have posted here under multiple names and concealed that fact. Take all the offense you want but, yes, I believe that you are a liar. Deal with it.

Hmm, maybe it's just one of your other personalities that tells the lies. God knows we could hardly blame you for that.
Able to fly
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 05:46 PM
NOW WHO IS TELLING LIES?????

Cranky Media Guy said:
"Nice try claiming that the multiple personalities thing was a joke. At the time you said that you were DIAGNOSED with them."

What I actually said can be found on page 70 of this forum:
"However I am told that I suffer from "multiple personalities". In which case you may find me on here using more than one name argueing with myself. Should this happen I apologise in advance."

Nice try Cranky Media Guy. How much credibility do you have left?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 05:59 PM
For those naive enough to believe everything they read on the internet.

I have referred to LifeWave's "study" by MVA on previous occasions in this forum. I have posed the question: Did LIfeWave give an honest answer when asked what was in the patches?

LifeWave's answer as per the report page 2 was:

"A reagent was chosen, based on information provided by the manufacturer, that would react with substances present in the brown (glucose) patch and in the white (glycerin) patch. The reagent chosen reacts with glycerin and with glucose to form a white precipitate."

Some readers have found this point a little hard to grasp. LifeWave told MVA the patches contained glucose and glycerin NOT glucose and glycerin with ingredients x,y,z etc. MVA needed to know so that they could choose the correct substance to "react" with the patch contents for the purposes of the test.

IF LifeWave told the truth then they have told the world that they are selling patches containing NOTHING more than glucose and glycerin.

IF they did NOT tell the truth, the testing was null and void. The MVA report stating the patches were non-transdermal is useless.

It's in black and white folks for all to read as I have mentioned before.

It is beyond comprehension how ANYONE can believe EVERY word posted on LifeWave's website. That level of gullibility is positively clinical.
Able to fly
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 11:46 PM
EDHUK said: "What if, after much time goes by, it turns out something does pass into the body? How would users feel then? Would they be curious as to what substances were being absorbed? Could the substances be harmful over the long term, say over a period of two or three years?"

Simple answer is YES of course I would be concerned. Just as I am concerned about the effects of anti-perspirant deoderants, self tanning lotions, sun screens, moisturisers, shampoos, conditioners, perfumes and anything else that touches my skin. However, reading the ingredients means nothing if I don't know how my body will react to them. What is harmless to others can trigger asthma in some or dermatitis.

I could spend the rest of my life worrying about what might happen if I continue to allow my son to wear the patches, or I can let him wear them if he wants to and hope that he is benefitting from them and that he won't regret it later.

I came to this forum because I did want to know more about the patches. You are right to suggest that we should ask questions and we agree on that. What we don't seem to agree on is where we should stand until we do learn more.

I haven't been presented with anything other than the cost of the patches and the cost to my ego if they are proven to be a scam, as a reason to stop buying the patches. Neither of those factors worry me. Even if Lifewave have stretched the truth in marketing the patches or even if they have been unethical in their earlier attempts at setting up the distribution, it doesn't change the fact that my son believes they work for him.

Your gut feeling may tell you they are a scam.
My gut feeling tells me there is more to the patches than a placebo. The truth is we still don't know.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 12:15 AM
Able to fly said:

"What I actually said can be found on page 70 of this forum:
"However I am told that I suffer from "multiple personalities". In which case you may find me on here using more than one name argueing with myself. Should this happen I apologise in advance."

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were claiming that someone who actually knows what they're talking about told you you suffered from "multiple personalities." I didn't realize it was just some guy you passed on the street or whatever. I'll never again make the mistake of thinking you know what you're talking about.

"Nice try Cranky Media Guy. How much credibility do you have left?"

Yup, that's it, try to make the subject about me. Am I the one who has made the claims about mysterious "friends" who "share" the same IP address? Am I the one who has the "multiple personalities?"

You have no credibility here. Why do you persist in trying to bullshit us?

Or am I just corresponding with your argumentative personality? The lies are piling up.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 12:31 AM
Able to fly said:

"So back to the issue of the Lifewave patches. I was told by some of you that a double blind placebo test was all you were asking for. My friend (or my alter ego if it keeps you happy) supplied a link and a copy of that information."

Yes, your "alter ego," AKA YOU under a different name in a sad attempt to convince us of the nonsense you're peddling. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot; you've been told that you suffer from "multiple personalities." One of them apparently supplied the link to a "study" conducted God-knows-where by God-knows-who. Well, if THAT doesn't prove the magical "nanotechnology" inside small adhesive plastic patches, I don't know what could.

Basically, your story is that small plastic patches can somehow "communicate" with the cells of the human body. You also admit to a serious mental disorder. How could we possibly NOT believe you?

"What else do you need now to convince you that the patches work?"

I'd tell you but I'm laughing too hard at you right now.

What color is the sky in your world?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 12:38 AM
All Tweeked Up said:

"By the way even though IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT may be the same person as ABLE TO FLY I still think she is right. Even though I have no idea what everyone has said, but I have read enough to come to my own conclusions."

It isn't absolutely impossible that Able To Fly is incorrect, but the question is why a person who claims to believe what they are saying has to resort to deception to try to convince others.

To me, it strongly suggests that what we are dealing with her is a person who KNOWS full well that the patches are nonsense, has, perhaps, a monetary interest in their success, and is desperately trying to patch the ever-enlarging holes in the LifeWave story. It is an effort which will ultimately fail. Although it may be a while before that happens, it WILL happen. See any laundry balls on the market these days?
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 12:44 AM
EDHUK one more point on the MVA study. I think it is safe to accept that glucose and glycerin did not permeate. I would have thought then that if the other ingredients, "x,y,z,etc" were able to break through the polyethylene, wouldn't they also open the door for the glucose and glycerin? If that happened wouldn't the patches have failed the test?

I suppose you could argue that there may be no glycerin or glucose in the patches.

How hard would it be for someone with the right equipment to cut the patches open and test for the substances? Or have I been watching too much CSI?
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 01:15 AM
Cranky Media Guy. If this were high school I would think that all this attention from you was a sign that you secretly fancied me.

Do you dream about me Cranky?
Are you hoping I have a naughty personality just waiting to play with you?
😊
Lizziegirl
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 08:40 AM
Forgive me if I came in at the tail end and this question has already been answered, but I am trying to find out if the patches contain latex. Someone from Pennsylvania gave me a few to try, and I broke out in a rash. He didn't know whether they are made with latex or not. I have written to Lifewave's website twice asking that question, but have received no answer. What kind of company won't answer a simple question? Alot of people are allergic to latex, and they need to know. Also, I felt nothing when I wore them. I think they are probably a placebo, and I'm glad I didn't pay for them.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 10:27 AM
Able to fly said:

"I haven't been presented with anything other than the cost of the patches and the cost to my ego if they are proven to be a scam, as a reason to stop buying the patches.

Excuse me? What about the fact their "inventor" knows nothing about science or nanotechnology? What about the theory behind the patches? Resonant energy transfer to the body's non-existent magnetic field? Glucose becoming an FM radio transmitter? The use of deceptive practices to conduct "studies" to prop up credibility and sales? The list is endless.

You've been given plenty of other reasons but for some reason you refuse to acknowledge them.
hcmomof4
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 02:23 PM
Able to fly,

It sounds like what you're saying is that it's ok if Lifewave misrepresents how the patches work, whether the lie is that they are placebo, or the lie is that something is actually ingested into the body, as long as your son feels that they help him.

A lie is a lie, and when it occurs within the marketing of a product, it is sometimes illegal.

Following this thought process (to the admittedly extreme...) methamphetamine is also illegal, and might also boost performance.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 02:24 PM
Certain souls feel they are safe in using the patches for themselves or their children. That's wonderful.

To continue posting here looks like an ongoing sales pitch does it not? Is such a person trying to sell the idea to others or to convince themselves?

Let's not forget the most important aspect of this scam. ALL those who promote the patches take EQUAL responsibility with the company when the inevitable closure of the company occurs.

*
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 03:22 PM
"Certain souls" may still be here waiting for proof either way.

Certain Souls may also feel that the stretching of truth used by Lifewave is no worse than the stretching of truth used by some of the sceptics on this forum.

eg:

Captain Al said
"What about the fact their "inventor" knows nothing about science or nanotechnology?"

How would you know what David Schmidt knows? How long have you known him?
Also the word nanotechnology is becoming a joke.
It simply means "nanotechnology, the coming ability to build materials and products with atomic precision"

or "nano- pref. [SI: the next quantifier below micro-; meaning * 10^(-9)] Smaller than micro-, and used in the same rather loose and connotative way. Thus, one has nanotechnology (coined by hacker K. Eric Drexler)by analogy with `microtechnology'; and a few machine architectures have a `nanocode' level below microcode'. Tom Duff at Bell Labs has also pointed out that "Pi seconds is a nanocentury". See also quantifiers, pico-, nanoacre, nanobot, nanocomputer, nanofortnight."
http://dict.die.net/nano-/


Then this comment:
"Resonant energy transfer to the body's non-existent magnetic field?"

It so happens that many accept that the human magnetic field does exist. And why wouldn't it? Do you doubt that the brain and the heart function with electrical impulses as well?

Then this comment:
"Glucose becoming an FM radio transmitter?"
As I understood the theory the patches contain ingredients in addition to glucose that interfere with the human magnetic field and work like nano (meaning small) antennae to give signals to the body. If you accepted that the human body has a magnetic field this theory would not be so beyond your comprehension. It may seem surprising, but no more surprisng to me than that the ipod nano that I gave my son has 4GB of memory. I didn't write to Apple and ask them to prove it. I pre-ordered it before the release and knew that if it didn't do as advertised I could demand a refund. Just like you can if you don't feel an increase in energy with the patches (assuming you even pay for the ones you try). How many businesses do you know that allow you to try before you buy?

Also this:
"The use of deceptive practices to conduct "studies" to prop up credibility and sales?"

The study practices used were not deceptive. The stretching of the truth in advertising was. However, show me a company that doesn't stretch the truth in advertising. I would have thought that by now society almost expects it and allows for it. Lifewave have now posted the details of the studies on their website. Anyone is free to read them before they invest in the patches.
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 03:35 PM
I am surprised that any of you think you even have the right to question me as to why I stay and argue. EDHUK claims to stick around out of concern for those he thinks are being scammed. I stick around out of concern for those who may have their livelihood effected by a bunch of self proclaimed do-gooders who don't really know if Lifewave is a scam or not but think that they have a right to accuse Lifewave and David Schmidt with very little and dubious evidence if any. I stick around to fight for the "innocent until proven guilty" laws that we should be living by. I'll stick around and until someone either presents me with PROOF that the patches are a scam or until these unfounded accusations stop.

My only financial interest in Lifewave was the money I spent purchasing patches for my son. I DO NOT DISTRIBUTE THEM.

PS Where is the response to my questions about Mark Kline, MK Systems and the document provided by WWSN1? I am waiting for more information so that I can understand why an attorney who normally represents famous music artists is representing a company who designs pulp manufacturing equipment in a lawsuit about the distribution of Lifewave patches. It doesn't make sense. Please explain.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 03:54 PM
All bona fide businesses have to prove their product does what they claim it does.

Why is LifeWave any different?

There is NO proof...period.

.
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 04:28 PM
Yes and I would like proof as well. However until the patents have been approved I am not surprised that we are still a little in the dark.

Until then we are given the opportunity to try the patches for free and decide for ourselves.

If the patches are a scam, it is an extremely well thought out or very lucky scam. To rely on the placebo effect to work enough times to build such a large business is amazing.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 04:57 PM
Able to fly said:

"If the patches are a scam, it is an extremely well thought out or very lucky scam. To rely on the placebo effect to work enough times to build such a large business is amazing."

Not really. I've actually seen these things; if they cost more than a few cents to produce in volume, Schmidt is the one getting ripped off. He sells them at an exhorbitant markup. Each one is sold at enormous profit..

Besides, who knows how "big" the company really is? It isn't a publically traded stock, so they don't have to disclose their financials to the public.

As for the placebo effect, those who have made an investment in LifeWave have an obvious incentive to tell others how "well" the patches work. Some of them will legitimately think they do and others will realize differently but will talk them up anyway. Greed is a powerful incentive.

Those who try them and receive no benefit will most likely just stop using them without making a fuss. The outcome is that one is most likely to hear from the booster club.

Then there's always the "multiple personality" factor where one person talks out of several sides of their mouth. Just sayin'.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 05:12 PM
Able to fly said:

"Cranky Media Guy. If this were high school I would think that all this attention from you was a sign that you secretly fancied me.

"Do you dream about me Cranky?
Are you hoping I have a naughty personality just waiting to play with you?"

I'd be afraid to be involved with you; if some of your "multiple personalities" are male, would that make me bisexual? It's all SO confusing.

Do you have any personalities that aren't full of shit?
anon
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 05:51 PM
lol @ Cranky Media Guy...

Im sure I speak on behalf of many other people in saying I agree with your comments on our Lifewave Loving friend AbletoFly!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 05:55 PM
If anyone has any doubt about the amazing ability of the placebo effect to separate people from their hard-earned cash, take a look at this:

http://www.ilikejam.dsl.pipex.com/audiophile.htm

(be sure to note the outrageous prices charged for this snake oil)

The human mind has a seemingly unlimited ability to BS itself.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 07:27 PM
Able to fly,

I have never met David Schmidt but if he had any scientific credentials I'm sure they would be billboarded front and center on his website. WWSN has been trying to get a look at his CV for some time now with no success. Schmidt claims to have attended a certain university. WWSN found out the only education he got there was a two year business course. Hardly the recommended educational background for developing leading edge technology. One can only conclude Mr Schmidt doesn't want his CV made public because there is nothing on it that would convince people he was capable of developing an energy patch.

So what if many people believe there is a magnetic field around the human body. That doesn't make it true. Are those "people" involved in medical research? If there really is one, it would be easy to verify and conventional medical science would know all about it.

Think about it. If the human body could be manipulated via it's own magnetic field, we would all flop around like rag dolls since the environment is full of radio signals. They come from broadcast transmitters, computers, power lines and from space. Even electrical noise would kill us since it contains an infinite number of random frequencies, some of which would most certainly be at the same frequency supposedly used by Lifewave patches. The fact a "human magnetic field" is dismissed by the vast majority of medical practitioners is a good indication it does not exist. Deal with it.

Glucose cannot be an FM radio transmitter no matter what it is mixed with. When Lifewave submitted their patches for some testing, they had to tell the testers what was in them. They said one contained glucose and the other glycerine. Nothing else. So how do they transmit?

I stand by my statement Lifewave used deceptive practices in testing. They used the names of universities where their "testing" was done. No mention was made the testing was being done without their knowledge and support. It took the threat of legal action to get those references removed. Lifewave also used quotes from a recognized expert in the field of nanotechnology. Once again, there was a threat of legal action against Lifewave when that person found out. These were deliberate, fraudulant attempts to lend credibility to Lifewave. If their product really does what they claim, why do they resort these unprofessional practices?
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 09:36 PM
For more information on biomagnetic fields see:
http://www.drpawluk.com/biomagnetic_fields.htm

A little about Dr Pawluk:
William Pawluk, M.D., M.Sc.Summary

Board Certified in Family Practice in Canada and the United States

Former Assistant Professor, Johns Hopkins University: School of Medicine and Hygiene and Public Health, Department of Health Policy and Management



Degrees

Master of Science (MSc), Clinical Epidemiology and Health Care Evaluation, McMaster University (equivalent to a Master of Public Health degree), Ontario, Canada

Medical Degree (MD), University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Bachelor of Science (BSc), Medical Sciences, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Postgraduate Education

1973-1976 Masters Degree, "Clinical Epidemiology and Health Care Evaluation," McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Postgraduate Medical/Clinical Training

Extension Program in Medical Acupuncture for physicians, UCLA

Teaching/Research

Fellowship, Department of Family Medicine, McMaster University,

Hamilton, Ontario, Canada


Certification

American Board of Family Practice

American Board of Family Practice

College of Family Physicians of Canada


Academic Positions

Assistant Professor, Family Medicine, Director Of Clinical Programs Division of Complementary Medicine, Kernan Hospital

Assistant Professor, Department of Health Policy and Management, Johns Hopkins University, School of Health and Public Hygiene, Baltimore, Maryland

Assistant Professor, part-time, Department of Medicine, Division of General Medicine, Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland

Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Family Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Camden, New Jersey

Assistant Clinical Professor, Department of Family Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Camden, New Jersey

Senior Instructor, Department of Family Medicine, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio

Lecturer, Department of Family Medicine, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Non-Academic Professional Experience

President, Advanced Magnetic Research Institute of the Delaware Valley, L.L.C.

Vice President for Medical Affairs, Rush Prudential Health Plans

Vice President for Medical Affairs, Prudential Health Care Plan of the Mid-Atlantic, Baltimore, Maryland

Instructor in Stress Reduction

Vice President for Medical Affairs, Johns Hopkins Health Plan, Baltimore

Medical Director, Member of Health Care Plan of New Jersey (HCP)

Family Physician, Health Care Plan of NJ/HIP- NJ


Professional Associations

American Academy of Family Physicians

Bioelectromagnetic Society (BEMS)

State Medical Society

American Academy of Medical Acupuncture

Maryland Society for Medical Acupuncture

North American Academy of Magnetic Therapy

- Vice President

- IRB member

- Scientific Committee

- Annual Program Chair


Johns Hopkins Medical & Chirurgical Association

Who
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 10:08 PM
More references to scientific recognition of Human Magnetic Fields:
"Taking 1 fT as the nominal resolution of the SQUID, it is capable of detecting changes in magnetic fields in the human body:

Threshold for SQUID: 1 fT
Magnetic field of heart: 50,000 fT
Magnetic field of brain: a few fT

The SQUID has been used to measure and localize seizure activity in the human brain. Resolutions on the order of 30 fT have been achieved with the YBaCO type high-temperature superconductors with which the SQUID can be operated at liquid nitrogen temperature. "

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/squid2.html
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 10:25 PM
magnetoencephalographic (MEG) technology

applications in neurosurgery:
http://www.neurosurgery-online.com/pt/re/neurosurg/abstract.00006123-199705000-00011.htm;jsessionid=Dw29bSwCbeJ0ObI1Z9lfuuuPQcHCoRrP1e2BiuM1ZWvshCNDPBBG!-265222359!-949856145!9001!-1
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 10:38 PM
The information I am posting is in response to Captail Al saying "So what if many people believe there is a magnetic field around the human body. That doesn't make it true. Are those "people" involved in medical research? If there really is one, it would be easy to verify and conventional medical science would know all about it."

In summary my response is: some are and it does.
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 10:46 PM
Captain Al also said:
"If the human body could be manipulated via it's own magnetic field, we would all flop around like rag dolls since the environment is full of radio signals."

Are you seriously not aware that radio signals etc are having both positive and negative effects on the human body?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 | 11:07 PM
Able to fly,

I hope your next post will explain what all this quackery means. Or don't you know?

"Are you seriously not aware that radio signals etc are having both positive and negative effects on the human body?"

Now I can't wait to hear what those effects are!
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 12:24 AM
I'm sorry, but one thing I hate more then anything are people using the word "skeptic" as a negative connotation.

Being a skeptic doesn't mean we don't believe in anything, or even that we always demand proof, just that we are believe that there is a lot of BS out there and want to have an educated understanding of the world.

In the case of lifewave patches, you've already heard the "skeptics" say that they would be happy if the patches worked the way David Schmidt says they work, but the evidence is very much in favor on the side of the placebo affect.

On one side, you have that the patches don't actually do anything except administer the placebo effect and were started by a man intent on scamming innocent people out of their money.

On the other side you have a person with no scientific experience inventing an amazing new nanotechnology patch that can use science that has never been heard of before. This person then sells the patch in an MLM company instead of publishing it in a scientific journal and receiving the Nobel Prize and other like appreciation and respect from the world. This person also has no money in order to conduct full-scale tests, yet apparently has enough money to even create this amazing new technology in the first place. He also sells this product, which produces dramatic medical changes in the patient, yet is still untested as to its safety. He then applies for a patent (after he starts selling it) which doesn't even make mention of the technology he uses.

The list goes on and on. Sure it is vaguely possible that scenario two is true. Maybe David Schmidt really is just a scientific genius with absolutely 0 business sense (which is surprising since he got a two year degree in business and no degrees in any form of science). Or it could just be the placebo affect. Occam's razor my darling.

Sorry if we tend to doubt your authenticity Able to Fly, but it is rather hard to believe that anyone could seriously consider scenario two as a possible truth when scenario one explains the situation perfectly without all the
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 01:20 AM
Captain Al said:
"I hope your next post will explain what all this quackery means."

Are you now suggesting that neuroscience is "quackery" or are you asking if I understand any of this?

If the later, to some degree I do understand it because I studied Introductory Neuropsychology at the Australian National University back in 1986. I recognise that there have been many advances since then and I haven't kept up to date with it or taken my studies any further in that field. I know enough to understand most of what they are saying. I assumed most of you who are on here have some understanding of science because of all the requests for scientific proof. Are you asking me to explain it all to you or were you suggesting that I wouldn't understand any of it?


Just because you would like to think that anybody who thinks that the patches could work must be stupid, doesn't mean that they are stupid. You talk about what scientists know and what scientists believe and accept as though you are an authority on this subject. Scientists often clash in their beliefs. You can manipulate a set of statistics to prove both sides to many arguments. (And yes, I studied statistics and mathematics at ANU in 1983). Blowing my own trumpet is not something I normally do, but I am sick of the suggestion that I must be stupid to believe that the patches could be anything more than a placebo. I have never tested lower than the 130s in an IQ test yet I believe anything is possible. We can prove what is to some degree, and we can prove what we don't know, but it is a lot harder to prove what isn't and that is what makes science so fascinating.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 01:51 AM
Razela said:
"Maybe David Schmidt really is just a scientific genius with absolutely 0 business sense (which is surprising since he got a two year degree in business and no degrees in any form of science)."

Where is the evidence that David Schmidt has "no degrees in any form of science" or that he has a "two year degree in business"? I was of the impression that no-one on this forum had seen a copy of his CV. Just because someone by that name studied business doesn't mean it was him. Just as the following CV for a David Schmidt probably belongs to someone else: http://www.clarkson.edu/fluidflow/djs/djs_resume.html
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 10:49 AM
http://www.centurion-systems.com/magnethum.htm


"The body is only insignificantly diamagnetic and paramagnetic; basically, it is neutral."

Bummer.

They didn't use the right instruments perhaps?

LifeWaveSpeak:

"magnetism"

"The "power" to withdraw large amounts of cash from a bank account on a regular autoship basis".
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 10:56 AM
http://interactive2.usgs.gov/faq/list_faq_by_category/get_answer.asp?id=486

"The primary effects of geomagnetism are on the health of electrically-based technological systems that are critically important to the modern civilization of humanity, not the humans themselves."

A thousand articles, a thousand opinions.

David Schmidt continues to rake in the lolly!

Still nothing of interest from the BIG CONference in September.

Coming soon, no doubt.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Rolan Doobies
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 08:10 PM
fix the page, the text is too long.
Rolan Doobies
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 10:49 PM
No, the formatting is jacked. I dont think its my computer because only this page is messed up. text runs off to far to the right side.
hcmomof4
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 | 11:34 PM
Yeah, it's happened on a couple pages for me. I've always assumed it was my computer, since screwed up is a normal state for it.
Announcer
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 01:59 PM
http://www.worldwidescamexposed.com/
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 02:14 PM
I noticed the person(s) behind worldwidescamexposed.com was too cowardly to put their name on it.
Announcer
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 02:18 PM
There is a contact link. Perhaps they will respond to you.

Any comments on the content?
Nanoman
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 03:05 PM
Finally a stop to all of this nonsense!!

EDHUK, CMG, Captain Al......nice try Bob!!

Lifewave is here to stay!!
Catch the wave of the future!!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 04:13 PM
Nanoman reappears!

We've missed you.

Looking forward to learning about some real studies at last. I'm sure the wait will be worth it.

Welcome back.

*
Nanoman
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 04:45 PM
thanks Bob
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 04:59 PM
Nanoman,

Good to see you haven't lost your sense of humor.

By the way, I'm still not Bob.

*
Joe
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 05:03 PM
I find it hard to believe that Bob could keep up 4 different writing styles, the purpose of which would be? Lifewavers don't like what 1 Bob says, so how would 4 of them help?

Bob's personal history does not let Lifewave off the hook. I find it irrelevant to this situation and forum. Lifewave and its founders are the subject. If Bob creates an MLM selling Nanotechnology, then we can start a new forum.
Joe
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 05:09 PM
If Bob were not to post on this forum, the same questions would still be asked.

If Lifewave would display moral and ethical behavior, then there would be no forum.

So Nanoman, I don't remember if you were the one talking about the conference in September and how it would answer all our questions, but where are the answers (studies)?
Kenneth McPherson
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 05:41 PM
Check the Daily Mail newspaper and find the page featuring a photograph with David Beckham, of Real Madrid shown wearing LifeWave patches. Enough said but yes you have to admit those guys who walked on the moon had to be in a huge warehouse somewhere and it was hoax also.

History repeats.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 05:57 PM
Kenneth

My sister tells me the UK is having nasty November wet weather with the River Severn nearing flood stage. I well remember Worcester floods!

I'm not quite sure what your point about Beckham is. Do you mean that if a footballer or a golfer or a runner wears the patches then they MUST be genuine?

Do you believe the moon trip was a hoax?

Do you believe Elvis still lives?

Do you believe glucose and glycerin inside plastic can "talk" to our cells and "tell" them to make energy to a specific formula?

Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

Do you believe in Santa Claus?

Cheers matey!

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 06:13 PM
Good old Beckham

"England captain David Beckham claims he was spat on by former Tottenham midfielder Kazuyuki Toda during a pre-season friendly in Tokyo.
The trouble flared as Beckham's Real Madrid suffered a humiliating 3-0 defeat against Tokyo Verdy in the first of two games in Japan as part of their tour to the Far East."

Perhaps he hadn't started wearing the patches yet?

Maybe it's because the Japanese play better football? Maybe they were ALL wearing pathces? Yes, that must be it!

??
Kenneth McPherson
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 06:17 PM
Hey EDHUK,

The weather is grim.

I take it you have used the Patches and confirmed that they have no beneficial effect on your well-being, energy levels or your bank balance.
Or would that be too much to ask in the view of the fact all the views I seem to have read from people who are convinced this(the Patches) are a complete and utter scam, whitewash with no proof of whether they work or not.

The patches won't re-incarnate Elvis, they won't give you your teeth back but as to know how or why they DO work I cannot explain that either. Is that the final test of whether they can be explained by the non-scientist or because a lack of knowledge about them defies our understanding of the world.

I can only verify my own experience of using the patches and on that basis know they have given me an improved quality of life. I tried on the recommendation of someone who also had reason to use them and who confirmed they'd been beneficial.
They might not be "needed" by everyone and by that token will remain the source of mystery for those who will never "have" to use them to gain the benefits.

Nobody is forced to use them, it's a choice people make.
Announcer
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 06:38 PM
Joe said: "If Lifewave would display moral and ethical behavior, then there would be no forum."

So let me get this straight: No one has PROVED that Lifewave has displayed any immoral or unethical behavior, yet when it is unequivocally shown that the self acclaimed scam buster Bob Burtis, a musician and heating contractor, who runs up huge credit card debt, to only walk away from it, it has no relevance?

Posters here have made issue of Lifewave's credibility, yet you ignore Burtis's total lack of credibilty, morals, and ethical behavior.

Joe please! One of Lifewave's biggest detractors has no credibility and you choose to ignore it. Anything Bob now posts cannot be taken seriously. Joe you cannot have it both ways.
Rolan Doobies
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 06:53 PM
Hey everybody, guess what. The other day I was out back cleaning up dog poop. Usually I get tired doing this task in about 5 minutes. This time I was able to pick up poop for 10 minutes and still felt great!!
I couldn't figure out why I had so much energy. Well then I figured it out. somehow I had stepped in the poop and and since I was wearing sandles it got up under my toes. It was squished under 4 toes on my right foot. At first I thought nothing of it, but the next day as I tired very easily again, it hit me. I took my sandle off and stepped in a nice fresh pile of poop. Oh MY GOD!! I could feel the energy instantly.

Im not making this up. Try it for your self. You really cant say anything against it if you havnt tried it. Now im wondering if different a dog breed will give me different effects.... to be coninued...
Rolan Doobies
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 06:58 PM
Announcer,
exactly what does Bob's past have to do with lifewave? Is he making false claims?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 07:21 PM
Kenneth

It's usual practice on this forum to declare self interest in the subject matter.

That way readers can add that into the equation.

Reasonable isn't it?


http://www.kenneth.mywavepro.com/

*
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 07:41 PM
Able to fly said:

The information I am posting is in response to Captail Al saying "So what if many people believe there is a magnetic field around the human body."

Congratulations Abby, you managed to find one quack who thinks there is a magnetic field around the human body. Now all you have to do is find a few million more and then the majority of medical people will agree with him.

"Maryland Society for Medical Acupuncture"
"North American Academy of Magnetic Therapy"

This guy is certifiable.

These things go against everything that has been learned about the human body in modern times. One wonders what you will do if your son ever gets sick or is injured while participating in his sports. You won't be able to take him to the hospital since everyone there doesn't believe in things like human magnetic fields, acupuncture and magnet therapy so you can't trust them.

I'm really having trouble figuring out why you are defending Lifewave so vigorously. You said you didn't buy the patches for your son and you don't sell them. If anything, you should be the one asking the tough questions. There's nothing wrong with that. If they are legitimate, they will easily stand up to scrutiny.
Joe
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 08:17 PM
Announcer,

Yes, I understand that posters here have made issue of Lifewave's credibility and that it is a big issue. Lifewave is selling a product and raking in a lot of money, so it is important. Bob is posting ideas (a right, Lifewave has no right to sell a deceptive product) and his personal past doesn't make his point less valid, because his point would have been made by someone else.

What I'm trying to say is that if Bob starts selling a product, starts selling financial services, or anything else where personal credibility plays a key role, then you are absolutely right in your statements (based on the Website information). But here, Lifewave is being deceptive and Bob is just asking reasonable questions.

We are asking reasonable questions, and you and other Lifewavers take it as a personal attack; therefore, you have to start dragging us through the mud. I know a lot of personal attacks have been made on this forum on both sides, but when you get down to it, Lifewave will not answer those key questions about their product. It doesn't take a perfect credit histoy to ask a reasonable question about a vague concept such as Lifewave.
Joe
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 08:25 PM
If Bob cannot be taken seriously on this forum, then someone else will step into his role and ask those same questions.

If David Schmidt cannot be taken seriously, his company will collapse, end of story.

Result: Schmidt's credibility is more important. He is the focus of Lifewave as its inventor. Bob is just another person asking reasonable questions.

Do you understand where I'm getting at? His credibility is irrelevant to the Lifewave discussion since he shares the same view as many. There is only one Lifewave inventor, therefore his credibility is critical.

(By the way, I'm not Bob, I would be defending anybody that is getting dragged through the mud for asking sensible questions about a deceptive product.)
Joe
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 08:30 PM
In fact, if Lifewave had credible studies for those patches, then I wouldn't even care about Schmidt's credibility (invention accidents do happen). But the fact that there are no CREDIBLE studies makes the personal credibility issue even more important. We had to start evaluating the product based on the seller and not on the proof of the product's claimed effects.
Joe
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 08:32 PM
Announcer,

If you sell the patches, then your credibility is an issue.

If you are on this forum adding to this discussion and defending your views, then I could care less about how many credit cards you have or how much money you make.
Announcer
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 | 09:10 PM
Joe

Bob does a lot more than just post ideas. Have you been to his website lately? Is that just posting ideas?

There have been many threads claiming Bob has an agenda regarding Lifewave. As stated on the worldwidescamexposed website:

Let
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 Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.