The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT:
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 05:50 PM
http://quikonnex.com/channel/item/13007
"Results:

Raw data collected from the two-day study was as follows; all numbers listed are repetitions performed:

**************

From the raw data collected in the above table, and by removing the highest and lowest scores from each group, it was determined that (1) The average percentage change in strength endurance in the Control group was an increase in performance of 8.9% from the baseline tests to the comparative tests (average 0.875 rep improvement); (2) The average percentage change in strength endurance in the Placebo group was an increase in performance of 13.8% from the baseline tests to the comparative tests (average 1.67 rep improvement); (3) The average percentage change in strength endurance in the Test group was an increase in performance of 43.2% from the baseline tests to the comparative tests (average 2.6 rep improvement).

In addition, the data shows the following:

*************


The above table gives us the breakdown of athletes in each group as it pertains to showing whether or not an athlete showed a decrease in performance from baseline to comparative test, remained the same in performance from baseline to comparative test, or showed an increase in performance from baseline to comparative test.

In the Control group we see that 20% of the participants showed a decrease in performance during the two-day study, 10% of the participants maintained the same level of performance during the two-day study, and 70% of the participants showed an increase in performance during the two-day study. In the Placebo group we see that 12.5% of the participants showed a decrease in performance during the two-day study, 25% of the participants maintained the same level of performance during the two-day study, and 62.5% of the participants showed an increase in performance during the two-day study. In the Test group we see that 14.3% of the participants showed a decrease in performance during the two-day study, 0% of the participants maintained the same level of performance during the two-day study, and 85.7% of the participants showed an increase in performance during the two-day study.

If we remove the data for the individuals who both decreased in performance and maintained the same level of performance we find that (1) in the Control group, with respect to the 7 individuals who did show an improvement in performance from the baseline to the comparative test the average increase in strength endurance was 19.7%; (2) in the Placebo group, with respect to the 5 individuals who did show an improvement in performance from the baseline to the comparative test the average increase in strength endurance was 30.8%; (3) in the Test group, with respect to the 6 individuals who did show an improvement in performance from the baseline to the comparative test the average increase in strength endurance was 63.8%.

If we remove the data for the individuals who both increased in performance and maintained the same level of performance we find that (1) in the Control group, with respect to the 2 individuals who decreased in performance from the baseline to the comparative test the average decrease in strength endurance was 27.8%; (2) in the Placebo group, with respect to the 1 individual who decreased in performance from the baseline to the comparative test the decrease in strength endurance was 42.8%; (3) in the Experiment group, with respect to the 1 individual who decreased in performance from the baseline to the comparative test the decrease in strength endurance was 6.2%."
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT:
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 05:51 PM
http://quikonnex.com/channel/item/13007
"Discussion:

Based on the data collected it is evident that there are several distinct differences in athletic performance between the three groups. With respect to the simple averaging of performance numbers, it is not unusual that all three groups experienced an increase in strength endurance given the nature of the test (athletes were in a training session for the upcoming football season). With respect to the Placebo group, a case could be made that there was indeed a
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT:
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 05:54 PM
http://quikonnex.com/channel/item/13007
"Conclusion:
Based on the data collected and the results obtained it was demonstrated that the LifeWave
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT:
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 05:55 PM
Is the ANYTHING ELSE you would like to know?
human being?
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 06:31 PM
WOW
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT:
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 08:32 PM
Amazing what you can have if you just ask.

How about asking any of the distributors to email you a copy of:
Proceedings of the 2005 IEEE
Engineering in Medicine and Biology 27th Annual Conference
Shanghai, China, September 1-4, 2005

Effect of Novel Nanoscale Energy Patches on Spectral and Nonlinear
Dynamic Features of Heart Rate Variability Signals in Healthy
Individuals during Rest and Exercise
Homer Nazeran 1, 2, Surya Chatlapalli 1, and Rohit Krishnam 1
1 Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, The University of Texas at El Paso, El Paso Texas, USA
2 School of Informatics and Engineering, Flinders University of South Australia, Adelaide, Australia
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 08:34 PM
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT

Very kind of you to provide the conclusive unbiased evidence we have all been waiting for. (Thank goodness for cut and paste!)

You will, of course, be applying for the Million Dollars. Why should someone else sneak in and take your well earned money?

Thank you.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 08:36 PM
It may take me a while to get through all this reading but thank you 😊
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 | 10:08 PM
EDHUK: "You will, of course, be applying for the Million Dollars"

Is there a million dollars on offer for finding this information? Who is offering it? Why?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 01:34 AM
human being said:

"Are you serious? You are also saying that I don't think he has the money. HMMM... Like ABLE TO FLY said. You are living in a fantasy world."

I just checked. It was DS who said that Randi didn't have the money. Sorry if I attributed that to you. All I'm saying is that whoever believes that the money doesn't exist should IMMEDIATELY contact the FBI and IRS as they are alleging a major crime.

So, I'M the one living in a fantasy world? Yup, I'm the one who thinks that small adhesive plastic patches can work like a cell phone and "communicate" with the human body. Yup, that's me in that fantasy world.

"Yeah they do have to agree in advance, so what, that doesn't mean that they can't be screwed out of the money. That's the whole screw right there, Trying to prevent people to agree to it. His contract really makes people want to walk away. Because it's really like the challengers not in control of their "powers", if they have any."

Aww, those poor people who have "powers" that violate the known laws of science; they just can't control them. Yeah, that's it. It isn't that they're self-deluded or lying. Nope, it's just that they can't demonstrate their "powers" if there's a skeptic present. Bad vibrations and all that. Apparently, "psychic powers" only work if the audience is completely composed of the gullible. That just makes them ever MORE special.

I have a bank account like that. It has a hundred million dollars in it UNLESS someone who doesn't believe looks at it. It's the damndest thing. My only consolation is that, under my rules (yours really), you can't prove that it doesn't.
Able to fly
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 02:28 AM
Cranky Media Guy can you please stop swinging this forum back to the topic of Randi and JREF. This is a forum about Lifewave.

Well I am waiting to hear what all the sceptics have to say about the Double Blind Placebo Control details that were posted. Are you now convinced that they work? If not then why not?

I contacted a friend who sent me a copy of the paper "Proceedings of the 2005 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology 27th Annual Conference
Shanghai, China, September 1-4, 2005" that IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT refers to. It is pretty heavy reading. It is in pdf format and has a lot of diagrams so I can't paste it here. However it appears that Lifewave technology does NOT "violate the known laws of science" and they CAN "control" it.

Those of you who find the "nano antenna" concept unbelievable, I was wondering if you would have believed someone 25yrs ago who claimed that school kids in 2005 would carry their notebooks around their homes and log onto the internet without wires. Would you have believed that they would spend hours each week chatting to complete strangers on the other side of the world through msn. Then again, so few people had even heard of the word "internet" back then that most people would have said it was impossible.

Isn't it great to know that we live in a world where ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! 😊
anon
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 03:11 AM
AbletoFly,

Obviously your either

a) Very bored
b) looking for an argument
c) a Lifewave shill

Really trying to stick up for Lifewave, or trying to give it any POSSIBLY credibility.

If David Schmidt is so ******** smart, he would program this crap to eliminate cancer, or something along those lines. I have friends dying of cancer, they dont need more energy, they need a cure. This Lifewave crap claims to work on a nonetech level. I just read the other day that there are new nanotechnology developements that will allow drugs to treat cancer to get into the cells and target them better. A promising hope, but damn, David Schmidt has the power to "program" nanotech and he would rather sell it over the internet to hopeful MLM'ers and my uneducated friends who want to get rich quick. Screw using his "extremely advanced science" for those type gains, I wanna sell energy patches via MLM.

We can harness the power of nanotech. Lets use our business degree and deal with a high end science thats barely maturing, and forget about more important things, I really wanna sell patches that give more energy.

Look at the big picture, it's crap, and in no way are you going to change these "enlightened" folks with the common sense to know it's crap minds to think Lifewave is good.

I love reading the posts trying to give it legitimacy, I laugh at every attempt, and am so excited to see David Schmidt cure Cancer/Aids/Disease with his MLM patches.
hcmomof4
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 04:02 AM
Gee, as hard data, the number of subjects that increased the number of reps shows that the control group (no patch, no placebo) won.

Seven of them improved, while only 6 of the test group (LifeWave patch) improved.

Numbers, especially as percentages, mean little in very small sets.

If 50% of people posting here think the patches are fake, and 30% argue that they're wonderful, it's a difference of 20%, which sounds like a pretty good margin. But if there are only 12 people in here rioting, it's only a difference of 2.
Human Being
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 11:22 AM
Cranky media Guy-
So you don't have an answer to my questions regarding lifewave and your wife eh? Well that's too bad that you won't respond to that. I was really curious.
Actually, I am not the one living in the fantasy world. I am living in a world where people should be open minded, and where anything is possible.
What is your response to IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTs entries? I'm sure you have some explanation for that, or are you calling Randi to read it for you?

ANON- Sure, if people knew a great cure for cancer they would have proposed it by now, but obviously David Schmidt didn't. He did what he thought he knew, which was energy patches. So are you saying that people should stop at any attempt, on anything, Like faster computers, to find a cure for cancer?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 01:49 PM
Human being said:

"Cranky media Guy-
So you don't have an answer to my questions regarding lifewave and your wife eh? Well that's too bad that you won't respond to that. I was really curious."

Sorry, I missed that until now. As for the patches and my wife, someone on this forum asked me if I would like to receive some LifeWave patches and I says yes. I got them in the mail and my wife expressed an interest in trying them. She wore them exactly as the instructions said to for several days. The results were that she felt nothing at all. No improvements in energy or anything else. Nothing at all. Does that answer the question?

"Actually, I am not the one living in the fantasy world. I am living in a world where people should be open minded, and where anything is possible."

There's a difference between being "open-minded" and being gullible. A lot of people seem to confuse the two concepts.

As for "anything is possible," well, there are a great many things which, so far as we know, are simply NOT possible. When someone makes a claim to the contrary, we ask that they PROVE what they say is true. That's how we guard against gullibility and being taken advantage of by those who have a monetary (or other) interest in doing so.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 01:52 PM
Able to fly said:

"Cranky Media Guy can you please stop swinging this forum back to the topic of Randi and JREF. This is a forum about Lifewave."

This from the person who went on at length about Larry King and "psychically-sensed" rose bushes? At least my JREF Challenge references are about TESTING LifeWave.
Able to fly
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 02:38 PM
Cranky Media Guy...why do you still sound CRANKY?

Didn't you say "Damn straight I'd like a simple way to get more energy now that I'm middle-aged and fat. ......I would be THRILLED to be proven wrong" ?

Well you have been presented with details of a Double Blind Placebo Controlled study and I would be happy to email the other paper to you.

😊
Able to fly
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 03:03 PM
anon in answer to:
a) Very bored
b) looking for an argument
c) a Lifewave shill

answers:
a) Yes...I am tied to a computer most days and nights due to the nature of my business. Forums keep me sane.

b) I am a female who has been married 3 times ..... need I say more?

c) What is a "shill"? I don't think we use that word in Australia?

In answer to the cancer question. I watched my friend fight cancer for 4 years. She would have loved to have access to energy patches, sleep patches, and energized water. Of all the "alternative treatments" that she tried, she seemed most impressed with Reiki. Although we eventually lost her as a result of a common bug that she caught while her immunities were low, we were never allowed to say that she was dying of cancer....she was living with it. Anything that helped make her life more comfortable was welcomed. She would have celebrated these developments instead of complaining that a cure for cancer hadn't been found.

David Schmidt has said that there are numerous possibilities for the patch system that they are developing. For the sake of your friends I hope someone, if not David Schmidt, finds a cure.

What you seem to dislike most though is that fact that it is distributed through MLM. Why are you so against it? I doubt that retail stores will even exist in the distant future.... internet shopping will kill it. Then you may welcome MLM which puts you in touch with real people.
Announcer
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 03:12 PM
For your listening enjoyment:

DR. HALTIWANGER GOES COAST TO COAST
10,000,000 new listeners to learn about LifeWave
Able to fly
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 03:36 PM
anon, I found it but I don't get it: "A shill is a poker player who is paid by the house and plays with the house money. He or she essentially tries to win money for the house at the poker game."

Are you suggesting that Lifewave pay me to be on this forum? Would you mind suggesting to Lifewave that they should pay me to do this....please 😊
human being?
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 | 11:04 PM
Cranky-"Does that answer the question?"
Yes, yes it does my dear watson.
ANON-"Shill", seriously... That's all I have to say about that.

Anyway Cranky, what is your stand on IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTs entry? Do you have some kind of an explanation for that?hhmm?
Able to fly
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 09:24 AM
WWSN1 could you please help me out here.

I have tried to find information on Mark Kline and MK Systems inc. but all I could find was this:
http://www.mksystems.com who "develops and manufactures specialized instrumentation in partnership with companies in the pulp and paper industry."
I guess there must be another MK Systems Inc.

So then I looked for info on the attorneys for Mark Kline and MK Systems Inc and I was so impressed with the biography of Mr. Vaughn-Flam who signed on behalf of the attorneys that I was beginning to wonder why he would be representing someone like Mark Kline and MK Systems who I can't find any information on.

"ERIC VAUGHN-FLAM BIOGRAPHY

ERIC VAUGHN-FLAM is currently Senior Litigation Partner to the firm Rubin Bailin Ortoli Mayer & Baker LLP, located at 405 Park Avenue, 15th floor, New York NY 10022.
For twenty years, Mr. Vaughn-Flam has specialized in entertainment, and has broad experience in copyright and trademark, music, film, television, electronic distribution, licensing, and multi-media.

Mr. Vaughn-Flam is currently lead counsel in the well publicized lawsuit Dallal v NY Times. Mr. Vaughn-Flam has distinguished himself in recent years as lead counsel in the $150 million management dispute of Hootie and the Blowfish v. Newman. Mr. Vaughn-Flam has previously served as President of Cook Records.

A partial listing of Mr. Vaughn-flam
Coast to Coast
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 10:02 AM
Announcer: I see no mention of Livewave on the coast to coast site. the upcoming programs only shows to Nov 5th. You said Haltiwanger is there on the 6th.
Do you have a secret link to the site?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 10:58 AM
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT said:
"Amazing what you can have if you just ask."

And ask, and ask, and ask. We have been asking for 9 months now. You said this study was done in June, 2003. Why are we just hearing about it now? You also make no mention of the "studies" done at Moorehouse College and Troy University. Oh that's right, those institutions threatened Lifewave with legal action for using their names and conducting studies without authorization.

"The principal investigator of this study was Coach Richard Shaughnessy, strength and conditioning coach."

Who the hell is Richard Shaughnessy? Strength and conditioning coach? How does that qualifiy him to conduct scientific research? Maybe you left out the "Dr." before his name and the "PhD" after.

Where did he do this "study"? There is no mention of any university. Is that because Lifewave no longer publicizes the names of these places because it was once again done without their knowledge?

"The Placebo group was given a set of patches filled with water; this group was unaware as to whether or not the patches were real or water filled."

According to the pictures I've seen, the "real" patches are clear and you can see the material inside. This material is either tan or white depending on what side of the body it is to be placed. How can you fill them with water and still have different colors? Don't say they used food coloring because colored water has a different texture than glycerin or glucose.

"It is postulated by the manufacturer that the LifeWave
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 01:33 PM
<i>Is there a million dollars on offer for finding this information? Who is offering it? Why?</i> - <b>IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT</b>

<i>Cranky Media Guy can you please stop swinging this forum back to the topic of Randi and JREF. This is a forum about Lifewave.</i> - <b>Able to fly</b>

Since the same IP was used by both of these posters, and since they posted within minutes of each other, even alternating, I'm assuming they are the same poster. In the future, be advised that posting under different usernames to support your position is frowned upon. If there turns out to be a valid reason for this shared IP I apologize in advance. I am merely trying to keep this place as honest as possible.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 02:18 PM
WWSN1

Interesting reading as always.

26 "...Defendants had actual and/or
constructive knowledge that it was illegal to sell the Products to the public without statutory clearances from the Food and Drug Administration."

27 . During all relevant times ,Defendant failed or refused to conduct clinical testing as set forth in 21 Code of Federal Regulations
hcmomof4
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 05:04 PM
Aw, c'mon WWSN1...

I know (because it LifeWavers have said so) that there is no need for FDA approval for these patches, since they contain no active ingredients, and do nothing (transdermally). And I've seen posted several times that the testing hasn't been done because after all, David Schmidt has a right to get as much money as he can before he's forced to pay for the tests to prove that the patches do nothing.

I was sort of curious about the "Exclusively Agreement" part. Was David Schmidt really dumb enough to tell someone that they got to market and sell this life-changing, earth-shaking, never-seen-anything-like-it, everyone-will-want-some brand-new nanotech product exclusively?. Perhaps he thought Mark Kline wouldn't notice that Mark wasn't the one at the top of the pyramid.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 05:22 PM
I'm trying to find where someone talked about the patches being transparent, allowing you to see the stuff inside them. I don't see the posting so I'll just respond generically.

I had some patches sent to me. My wife used them and felt NO effect at all. I subsequently sent those patches on to James Randi and they are the ones you can see a photo of on his webpage from a few months back.

Yeah, it looks as if you can see inside them. To be honest, the brown one looked to me as if it had something brown-colored on the inside surface of the "dome" of the patch. It didn't look to me like a liquid inside the dome. I could be wrong about that; that's just how it looked to me. With the white one, it looked to me as if you were seeing through the "dome" to the top of the bottom layer. In other words, it looked to me as if there was nothing inside the white one. Again, I'll say that I could be wrong about this; this is my recollection, though.

You can go to Randi's site (randi.org) and see the actual patches my wife wore to determine this for yourself.
Able to fly
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 06:05 PM
Charybdis in Hell
"If there turns out to be a valid reason for this shared IP I apologize in advance. I am merely trying to keep this place as honest as possible."

IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT is my friend who introduced me to Lifewave. I showed my friend the forum and to my great embarrassment (since I had been suggestiing a petition) my friend jumped on my computer and showed me the info I was looking for. I suggested that my friend respond personally.

However I am told that I suffer from "multiple personalities". In which case you may find me on here using more than one name argueing with myself. Should this happen I apologise in advance.
hcmomof4
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 | 11:32 PM
Sounds reasonable...
Rolan Doobies
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 12:06 AM
Busted
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 01:39 AM
Able to fly said:

"However I am told that I suffer from "multiple personalities". In which case you may find me on here using more than one name argueing with myself. Should this happen I apologise in advance."

Uh, isn't there a LifeWave patch to cure that?

Is it me or have we all fallen through the rabbit hole? Now we have to debate Sybil?

Maybe that was the problem with the "proof" of the patches' effectiveness; maybe Morehouse U. has an evil twin that actually DID endorse them.

And I'M the one living in a fantasy world??
Mr. James Randi
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 08:43 AM
To the people of this Form:

We have just finished a study in which the patches have clearly made an improvement (increased energy) on our subjects. (I can not release the names of those subjects).

The information that Is This What You Want gave out was in correct nature of the abilities that life patches give out.

However, Since Mr. Schmidt didn't take the challenge I have no money to process to him. So this study was quite a thrill, since I don't have to pay him nor do I have to reward him of any kind. The release of this information on my website should be up in a few days. However, the information being released to you now is only a tiny fraction of what we found. This information will not be released until further notice.

I would like to thank the following: Cranky Media Guy, EDHUK, Captain Al, Charybdis, and also ABLE TO FLY. For she has debated a hard fought battle, despite the all a round nonsense.

I bid all of you a good day.

Sincerely,

James Randi.
Please visit http://www.jamesrandi.org

Thank you.
Kenneth McPherson
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 09:25 AM
Hmmm, is this hornets nest or is someone trying to prove that truth is what we think,say or do?

Lot's of ideas being expounded across media, politics and religion and whatever that has to do with LifeWave Patches I am at a loss to comprehend.
Belief systems and how we arrive at our knowledge of the planet can be a precariuous path to enlightenment.

LifeWave works

I know I have used the patch and am aware of a change in my personal sense of well-being compared to before I used the patches.

As regards a world without politicians, speed the day. But if it's chaos you frightened of then I am sure an alternative system of checks and balances will prevail. But as that's an unlikely scenariio I will just have to put up with what ever politician is "chosen" as the leader in my country of residence. I will choose to not allow it to determine my place in life otherwise I'd be a very sad person based on that premise. I will still allow myself an opinion of the politicians who "try" to run the country of my residence and maintain a dignified snigger as they in-fight and put themselves through successive self inflicted hoops of derision as they pontificate on their subject of the day, terrorism, the laws of the land, company directorships and all the rest of the ncessary stuff they must discuss. It fills me with a hollow grin when I see them fall from grace through their indiscretion and the need to fall in line with party and public duties. For those outside the UK, note the passage of David Blunkett and David Mcletchie from Labour and Conservative parties respectively.

I will continue to use the LifeWave patch not through a belief in the advertising or marketing materials but because I have tried the product and do not wish to relinquish the benefits I have gained from using them. That is irrefutable and nothing can change that fact.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 09:27 AM
Mr. James Randi? Yeah right.

Charybdis, better check the IP on that poster.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 09:33 AM
Kenneth McPherson,

What the hell do politicians have to do with this? Enjoy your $90/month placebo. Lifewave thanks you.
The Curator
in San Diego
 Member
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 12:25 PM
The IP address is the same as that of Carter S, aka All Tweeked Up!

And incidentally, this thread now has almost 1400 comments, which might be a record for my site.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 12:27 PM
Nice no see that gullibility and a good sense of humor are NOT exclusive.

*
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 12:41 PM
Kenneth McPherson

Is "My Wave Pro" your personal version of the patches website?

If you read this entire forum, and it is getting very long now, you will note that I have commented more than once that it is possible to experience genuine effects from a placebo.

I don't doubt you experience something when you wear the patches. I do, however question whether the glucose and glycerin discs are "talking" to your cells to tell them to increase your sense of well being.

Is it worth the money for a placebo? Well, if it does something for you, maybe it is. LifeWave doesn't claim to sell a placebo. They claim far more. In addition, the selling of the patches and the associated MLM structure, and much touted financial rewards, is the real reason behind the company.

WWSN1 has posted above details of a lawsuit. The money involved is huge and Mark Kline is obviously determined to get his share, one way or another.

It's not really about the patches at all, as has been mentioned by others. It's the financial structure that makes a certain owner very rich.

Enjoy Bonfire Night Kenneth. At least it falls on a Saturday this year.

Cheers.

*
anon
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 01:35 PM
I think you guys are replying to forum trolls.

Even AbletoFly has lost all credibility with her "tale" of posting form the same IP.

OBviously this forum is gonna turn into a pissing match of trolls and the regulars with no proper resolution.

Obviously the trolls/lifewavers want to target this site because when you type in "lifewave hoax" this is one of the first search results, hence lifewavers want/need to make sure they can try and give some credibility to their name.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 01:38 PM
So THAT's what Trolling means. I've heard people mention it before, but never understood the meaning.
All Tweeked up!!!
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 06:02 PM
Sorry for the inconvenience. My apologies.

I promise I will NOT be on this site again.

HAVE FUN!!

Now, carry on...............

By the way even though IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT may be the same person as ABLE TO FLY I still think she is right. Even though I have no idea what everyone has said, but I have read enough to come to my own conclusions.

But anyway SORRY.
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 07:35 PM
Hey Tweeked-

If your going to try to fool people, your level of literacy needs to be equal to the person you're trying to imitate. It wouldn't hurt to try claiming something credible also.

anon-

Yeah, chances are excellent that most of the posters are trolls. (They likely live under bridges, have long dirty ratty hair, and eat unsuspecting small children too...) Speaking for myself, most of my effort, which is much less than that of EDHUK, WWSN1, CMG and others, is simply for entertainment. Mostly my own... I have hopes, albeit slim, of someone reading all of this and comparing the weight of volume to the weight of rationality, and concluding that an energy boosting placebo can be had for less than the cost of LifeWave patches.
Able to fly
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 11:10 PM
anonare you suggesting that I am a troll?

I understood that a troll is someone who doesn't really care about the issue but likes to make outrageous comments just to see what reaction they get (would you agree with that definition anon?). I am not sure which comments I have made that anon finds outrageous. I may love to argue, but only when I can back up what I say and I prefer to stick to logic. In this case I do very much care about the issue because I am purchasing the lifewave patches for my son.

Also, I will happily go along with the suggestion that I am also IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT so that I don't have to be embarrassed that I didn't even think to do a google search myself to find the information that I wanted to petition for. I gather the idea of letting someone else use your computer is beyond your comprehension so I am happy to leave it at that.

So back to the issue of the Lifewave patches. I was told by some of you that a double blind placebo test was all you were asking for. My friend (or my alter ego if it keeps you happy) supplied a link and a copy of that information.

What else do you need now to convince you that the patches work?

Anyway I came to this forum not knowing if the patches really worked or if it was a placebo effect. I came to this forum looking for answers. I found a lot of opinions, but few answers. It concerns me that the number of people involved in the Double Blind Placebo study were small (a total of 25) and so I am still not convinced 100%. However, this forum has provided me with no reason other than a reluctance to accept new ideas and ones we can't fully explain as a reason to suggest that the patches are a Hoax. There has been suggestion by WWSN1 that David Schmidt has not been completely ethical in his business dealings (hence the lawsuits) and I am still waiting on more information on those matters.
Able to fly
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 | 11:27 PM
If anyone new does come to this forum and are looking for a straight answer to the question "Are Lifewave patches a Hoax?" the answer at this stage should be We don't know for sure, but there are strong arguments both ways.

There is some evidence to suggest that there is more going on than just a placebo effect. We don't definitely know WHY or HOW wearing the patches has resulted in improved performances, and it hasn't worked in all cases. The explanation we get from Dr Haltiwanger appears to be more of a Theory than a fact.

I would encourage Lifewavers to keep asking for scientific reports and studies.

Hopefully with a little more action from all those concerned on both sides of the argument we may get some answers soon.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 12:11 AM
Able to Fly - I just want to let you know that I'm glad you came to the forum. Though I can hardly say I agree with many of your conclusions, at least you show some thinking for yourself, which is more then I can say about basically every lifewaver that has posted. There are still biases and pre-formed opinions, but of course, that applies to everyone. At least when arguing with you the use of logic actually has some weight.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 03:23 AM
Not only are the LifeWave patches a fraud, so are their supporters. Seems appropriate.

So, Able To Fly, how many "multiple personalities" do you have? Are they all allowed to vote? Do you have to pay for more than one seat on the bus? How about all-you-can-eat buffets? Movie theaters?

Do the patches give all the personalities additional energy at the same time? Are all of the personalities full of crap or just the ones we've been privileged to see here?

I think it's time to crawl back under Ayers Rock ("Uluru" to any aboriginals reading this).
Able to fly
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 06:19 AM
Cranky Media Guy, are you now trying to turn this into a debate on Multiple Personalities?

Why don't you just start a new forum claiming Able to fly is a Hoax, or have you done that already? I couldn't be bothered looking for it.
Able to fly
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 06:28 AM
Razela. Thank you. Its good to know that some people still remember how to be nice. Forums have a way of turning normal sane people into Cranky Meddlesome Guys.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 08:53 AM
An employee of a college gets involved with LifeWave patches. He's involved with sports at the college, so he carries out some unofficial "tests" so that he can use the "results" in his sales pitch.

When his name is mentioned in print, the name of the college is also included. Seems to give his claims more credibility.

The college finds out what he has done and issues a cease and desist order to LifeWave.

It's a simple concept of linking a dubious product with a well known name/institution etc.

The problem is that people in other areas of the country/world, take these "endorsements" "studies" at their face value.

Throw in some fancy sounding studies conducted in another country and presented at some conference (where the presenter paid for the privlege of standing by his poster mounted on a stand, like the high school science fair) and an air of credibility starts to waft its way over certain personality types.

To those reading about this subject for the first time, out of general interest, or thinking about selling the patches.

Take nothing at face value (including my posts and others) Read all the posts to get the flavor of the pros and cons.

Try to remain grounded in reality. It will be VERY hard for some to do. The excitement of this product (if it were to turn out to be genuine) would be difficult to ignore.

Think about what is at stake for you.
Thinks about what is at stake for David Schmidt at LifeWave.

Above all, think about it.

Have a great week-end!

*
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 05:13 PM
Able to fly said:

"Cranky Media Guy, are you now trying to turn this into a debate on Multiple Personalities?"

No, I'm just laughing at your ridiculous nonsense. The lies are piling up.

"Why don't you just start a new forum claiming Able to fly is a Hoax, or have you done that already? I couldn't be bothered looking for it."

Don't you have a spare personality you could devote to that research? No obsessive-compulsives in the crowd?

I LOVE the way you guys blame the messenger. How about you defenders of quackery stop playing these stupid multiple personality games? Then the rest of us wouldn't feel obligated to respond to that nonsense.
Able to fly
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 06:11 PM
Cranky Media Guy HOW DARE YOU.

Point to one single shred of evidence to back your accusation that I have told lies.

I DO NOT LIE

When I apologised in advance that you might find me on here arguing with myself it was a JOKE. Many women have probably been accused of having multple personalities as men try to cope with their PMS. I wasn't telling lies but I wasn't expecting to have to explain or defend my sense of humour.

I have explained who IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT IS but I DON'T have to waste my time proving it, so I laugh it off and move on.

It is one thing if you choose to be sarcastic on a forum, but to ACCUSE ME OF TELLING LIES IS GOING TOO FAR.

I await your apology and request that the moderators remove your post.
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT:
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 08:52 PM
Mr Sea Monster in Hell I am unable to fly. Nugh said. Advanced apology accepted.
Able to fly
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 08:59 PM
Thanks, but you needn't have bothered. It just gives them another excuse to avoid the real issue here..... they still don't know if Lifewave is a hoax, so they turn the focus by attacking anyone who doesn't think it is.
anon
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 | 11:27 PM
able to fly:

maybe you should just give it up already. You already have lost all your credibility on the forum with the constant support of making sure Lifewave "hasnt been 100% disproved" I enjoyed your use of BOLD letters to support that line.

That and the fact "that your friend used your computer to post on here" and the other fact that your son is using/selling them pretty much ensures that your just another Lifewave lover and you are embarassed to admit you spent 100+ on a membership to the fradulant company.

Goodnight and goodbye!
Rolan Doobies
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 01:39 AM
Able to fly,,
Does basketball season start earlier in Australia? My son has been playing for years and they have never started before November(yes, I know the pros start earlier than that). I think if your son wants to be a basketball superstar, bogus patches aren't going to do it... what will is about 2 thousand shots a week. Have him try that. Have him stick the placebo patches on if he gets tired shooting so much.
Able to fly
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 06:43 AM
Rolan Doobies said: "Does basketball season start earlier in Australia?" At a non-professional level there are two seasons of basketball per year. (Well at least there is in Qld and NSW, I don't know about the rest). At a professional level it started very early September. See http://www.nbl.com.au

Thank you for your advice but already my son's coach requests at least 180 shots a day and runs a very heavy training session on Saturdays. On top of that my son plays in two competitions (Wednesday and Friday) plus a third when the reps comp starts up again (February in Australia). He also coaches a junior team (Mondays) and ocassionally referees for the school. He attends a gym two afternoons a week for strength building. PLUS, on top of ALL of that he goes to school full-time and has a part-time job. He watches his diet very carefully and drinks at least a litre of soy milk a day. So what more can he do?

My son only wears the patches when he plays competition or trains on Saturdays because that is when he will be pushed to the point where he normally has difficulty breathing. He tells me that he doesn't feel the tight pains in his chest when he wears them and so he can play on longer without needing time on the bench. It may just be a coincidence and so after 7 years of playing basketball he has suddenly outgrown the problem. Or it may be a placebo effect. Or maybe the patches really do work. Whatever the reason, since my son has shown so much dedication to his sport, if he wants the patches I will buy them for him. I have no regrets as long as he feels he benefits.
Able to fly
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 07:15 AM
anon, to sell the patches you need to be over 18yrs of age. My son is only 16.

The rest of the garbage you wrote, was that meant to scare me away or were you just being a troll?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 02:29 PM
I think it's understandable why people need to cling to the idea that the LifeWave patches must be real. Who wouldn't want to benefit in the way that David Schmidt claims.

It becomes a tricky proposition when such believers in the product attempt to put forth solid "information" that "proves" the product is genuine.

I have stated many times that I don't think everyone posting for the product is a rogue. Some are genuine folk who have been swept up in something they cannot, yet, fathom. The product seems to do something so why look any further?

David Schmidt has not changed his original premise that the patches are non-transdermal. ie that nothing enters the body. What if, after much time goes by, it turns out something does pass into the body? How would users feel then? Would they be curious as to what substances were being absorbed? Could the substances be harmful over the long term, say over a period of two or three years?

During the past months of posting, I have not been concerned about ill effects from the patches because I have believed the hype. If they were non-transdermal, there couldn't be any harm in them except for the drain on the wallet.

Let's hope David Schmidt has, at the very least, told us ONE truth about the patches.

??
Able ot fly
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 | 05:04 PM
The lifewave website has links to studies on it.
Regarding EDHUKS concern about whether the patches are or are not non-transdermal see:
http://www.lifewave.com/pdf/mva_study_11-23-04.pdf

Links to other studies can be found at:
http://www.lifewave.com/studies.asp
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 Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.