Here's a couple of vampire-themed websites sent in by visitors. First we have the
Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency. According to the blurb on the site, "From 1868 to 1975, the Federal Vampire & Zombie Agency (FVZA) was responsible for controlling the nation's vampire and zombie populations while overseeing scientific research into the undead. This site is a tribute to the men and women who served in the FVZA, especially the over 4000 Agents who lost their lives fighting to keep our country safe." And next we have
The Temple of the Vampire. If you want to live forever, then all you have to do is join the temple. The catch is that in order to join you have to buy their book,
The Vampire Bible. That's a good sales gimmick. I should try something like that for my book, such as if you want to achieve a state of absolute enlightenment, then you have to buy my book.
Comments
let m have ther vamp-herd dumbas fun, but dont let em take over cos an use it for recruting. i jest don wanna see 'nemo becomes high priest, merges tov and cos into temple of satan, monthly dues and worship required, hagen banned'
You haven't done much leg work in this area.
The matter is ENTIRELY black and white. Either you believe in something or you don't. And it is quite possible to disbelieve and be skeptic at the same time. Skepticism is not some weird intermediary state between belief and disbelief; it's a method for identifying what to believe and what not to BASED ON ALL AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. Thus, because there is no evidence for leprechauns one can reasonably conclude that NO SUCH THINGS EXIST.
First off, I'll take the benefit of the doubt and say you probably have heard of the logical fallacy called false dilemma, or more commonly black-and-white thinking.
Wiki for those who aren't familiar with it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Try finding a college-level philosophy course on logic and critical thinking, then come back to see if you still agree with this opinion.
Here's a brief essay touching on this issue from Marcello Truzzi:
http://www.anomalist.com/commentaries/pseudo.html
Excerpts.
Right from the beginning he states: "The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved."
Further detail,
"...All of us must remember science can tell us what is empirically unlikely but not what is empirically impossible. Evidence in science is always a matter of degree and is seldom if ever absolutely conclusive. Some proponents of anomaly claims, like some critics, seen unwilling to consider evidence in probabilistic terms, clinging to any slim loose end as though the critic must disprove all evidence ever put forward for a particular claim. Both critics and proponents need to learn to think of adjudication in science as more like that found in the law courts, imperfect and with varying degrees of proof and evidence. Absolute truth, like absolute justice, is seldom obtainable. We can only do our best to approximate them."
Some fun stuff on how our habitualized expectations and worldviews (including disbelief and belief) determine what we can experience and not experience by Professor Alva Noe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af3Vq-C1ck8&feature=player_embedded
Enjoy.
Now back to Mount Olympus. Hera's waiting...
"If you don't understand the situation, even partially, then your opinion is moot."
More black-and-white thinking. Watch it.
-Zeus
It's like a train to nowhere.
The ToV and the CoS are like apples and oranges.
Case closed.
Move on. Get over it already!
Case closed."
Thanks Mr. Gilmore for showing up here and setting the record straight!
I think some here will have closure when support of the ToV by the CoS will be finally ended.
Why? Are you losing sleep over this? Do you wake up from nightmares over this and then bark on here how the CoS must cease its support? Is it effecting your personal life in some way that is keeping you from functioning in your everyday life? I mean if its not then why even worry so much about it?
I am curious to know what exactly is the scientific method you are referring to? I do think science is important but my issue with science as being the "god" of reality is that it may one day discover "god" or even "unicorns" as real but then 100 years later through advancements discover that this "god" or "unicorn" wasn't really a "god" at all or a "unicorn". Then if you use science to disprove something whose to say 100 years later the scientists won't admit they were wrong and what they thought could be disproven is now proven?
"THE CALLING OF THE UNDEAD GODS
In exquisite and careful detail, you will learn exactly what to do in order to meet the most advanced Vampires in a direct and powerful manner.
We know who has honestly obtained these instructions from us.
If you have been honest with us, we will come to you. "
So by that you then meet them as in direct contact? SO this is different from say praying to Jesus right? Because people have always said you will meet Jesus when you confess your Faith. Well That statement itself is a contradiction in itself. How can you meet Jesus through Faith? So I am assuming by meeting the undead gods they mean by actual meeting them. Not just pretending like christians do right?
on my 1st post i sed maybe the tov is a trap 4 CoSers who wernt the real thing and you guys sed nothing wwas hapening to em and one guy said some got boosted up into power places fastr
i shodntve taken that on faith. whoz been shone favrtsm? whose gotten in deepr? i wan examples and people and links or storys. 1st step is figuring out if anything rly hapend. show me 1 vamp in th heirarchy who isnt nemo vetru r cesar .show me somehting wrong. hableius corpses
Anyhow, the video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHbngpHfPJ8&feature=player_embedded
Now they are on YouTube trying to get followers suckered into their cult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HIpbSzjhFM&feature=related
Hmmm... I wondered why "comments" on these YouTube videos are DISABLED? *smirk*
Are commercial videos even allowed on YoTube?
Hmmm... well I wonder how those who called and didn't get an answer feel about this video?
They make the claim in this video that anyone who buys the Vampire Bible will have undead come to them.
In my opinion, this video is a bit misleading and is false advertising in a certain sense.
And, of course, they are not going to tell you these undead don't come to everyone upfront because they would loose sales.
Their site makes the claim:
THE CALLING OF THE UNDEAD GODS
In exquisite and careful detail, you will learn exactly what to do in order to meet the most advanced Vampires in a direct and powerful manner.
We know who has honestly obtained these instructions from us.
If you have been honest with us, we will come to you.
So, what if you are honest and ordered the book and nobody shows up? I guess you would feel a bit TAKEN. 😉
Ohh Well! At least "I" was honest, tried to be open minded, in intention unlike others; yet, when your too gullible some will take advantage of you. 😛
I admit I was stupid for even ordering the book in the first place... yup I feel like a putz. Lol!
As they say, if it sounds to good to be true then...
As for me, enough said for now.
Seems like every Satanist who is posting here is unhappy with the CoS' current state. Why continue to affiliate? Why are you so afraid of being blacklisted by them? If you disaffiliate, do you honestly have much to lose if you are this unhappy?
The ONLY way you will make yourself heard and change things is to disaffiliate and speak your mind. Really. If every CoS member and non-members alike did this, HP Gilmore would jump.
private? ruprt? greenfiry? nashon? whats th problem exactly?
If you have watched the most recent posted ToV ad then you will see what I am saying.
Now, imagine, just imagine if another group made similar claims and didn't have the support of the CoS.
And everyone knows that any other group would be labeled as theistic, occultnic or kooky by the CoS if they said you could buy a book to summon real vampires or aliens too you, wouldn't they? I thought so... 😉
You have read and posted enough on this forum to know what is going on with ToV and CoS. The answers to your question have been repeated here ad nauseam for 44 pages.
My point is, people keep bitching but do nothing about it. When Rupert took this topic to a more appropriate forum, no one but 3 people (myself included) responded.
People are cowards. I still have a few friends in the CoS who are very unhappy with the state of things yet do nothing about it because deep down, they are afraid of being blacklisted. I guess having rank in an organization is important to most people - even if it conflicts with their principles.
At this point, ToV is the least of CoS' problems. The Church of Satan seems to be heading into a different direction. Period.
Nazi symbols like the Wolfsangel and Black Sun have become so trendy among CoS members, the Baphomet is slowly becoming obsolete. Racism is also openly expressed and supported by Magister Svengali to the point of embarrassment. All of his new supporters are Neo Nazi Skinheads and loser rednecks. Read his Myspace blogs and you'll see what I mean. You'll be hard pressed to find any intelligent discussion there.
Essays in Satanism was the best piece of literature for Satanism since Satan Speaks and it's so disappointing how Project Faust seems to have been abandoned by constant nigger bashing on a mediocre and unprofessional forum such as Myspace.
As far as I'm concerned, The Church of Satan died with LaVey. Whenever someone expresses how the CoS has changed since LaVey's passing, Hierarchy challenges them by asking how. No one ever has the guts to say it and most are in denial. Well, there you have it. Everything I have stated is truly obvious for those who have the ability to see.
ToV or no ToV, the Church of Satan is doomed. Too much damage has already been done for anyone to take this organization seriously.
I for one, do not need them.
If that were true you would not be here.
>>i relly doubt gilmore would do anything if half the cos left. has no reason 2. <<
Yes he would. The Church of Satan is his job. If there are no members he's out of business. I'm sure there are other things he can do. However, do you really believe he wants to lose his status and fame as High Priest of the Church of Satan?
If HP Gilmore lost all of his most valuable members and was left with only the undesirables who fork over $200, the situation at least has a good shot at improving. Or maybe not. Perhaps HP Gilmore wouldn't care if the CoS only attracted idiots so long as he's getting paid.
Who knows? The only way to find out is to take action.
GF- in 44 pages iv seen a lot o proof tov is a shit heap and nemo is at best a liar, worst a bliver. im anothr of the 3 people who replied to ruprts site, he even named it on my sugestn. but nobody came. nobody cares enuf to disafili8. theres like 10 ppl who care enuf to talk, and do nothing. if u left, theres been xactly 1 prsn who cared enuf to. 44 pages looks lik alot, but rlly, tov has done nothing. no favortism, no takeover, no nuthin.
fact is i lik what gilmores doing. if cos died with asl, gilmore made a new one i lik. svengali keeps his racism to his blogs n nemo keeps tov to tov. disflfinging wuod b lik leaving England cus its got muslims in it.
ill kep reading ehre and dakkar cuz its intrsting, a little sidehow to lttd. but til someone tells me how tov is HURTING cos, im nootril.
n jus curius, how AS cos changed since asl? obvsly nobody on lttd gets to say.
You're contradicting yourself. You participate on this forum, acknowledge that the ToV is a "shit heap" and Nemo is a liar.
Yet, you claim that you are satisfied with the way HP Gilmore is running things and you still do not see how the ToV is hurting the CoS. You have also read this entire forum and you still ask the same questions that have been answered numerous times.
I think you do have major doubts but are afraid of confronting the powers that be. Hence why you go to such extreme lengths such as writing incoherently to conceal your identity.
What are you afraid of?
>>svengali keeps his racism to his blogs n nemo keeps tov to tov. disflfinging wuod b lik leaving England cus its got muslims in it. <<
You've got to be kidding me. So that makes what they are doing okay? They are still exposing the public as well as CoS members and non members alike they are networking with to this tripe. Racism and Undead Vampires tarnish The Church of Satan's reputation.
>>n jus curius, how AS cos changed since asl? obvsly nobody on lttd gets to say.<<
I have already addressed this in my last post.
>>ill kep reading ehre and dakkar cuz its intrsting, a little sidehow to lttd. but til someone tells me how tov is HURTING cos, im nootril.<<
The truth is all over this forum as well as right in front of you within the CoS and ToV. It's up to you whether you choose to accept it or not.
>>kep in mind tov has daside n nightside stuf. cus they treat all the god crap as sycodrama the way cos does magik, it is compatble. im begingn to think cos jus suports it cus its nemo and half of it is cos frendly. no skin of r backs.<<
If this is true, why do you think Nemo is a liar and the ToV is a shit heap?
as 4 me- im not afrad of powers at be, im afrad of ppl i know thinkng les of me for indulging in this dirty thred/
now y havnt you disafilited? y don you go yel at gimlor? y are you anonymus?. ruperto isnt and his names still blue. yr stuf would b more belivible if you sed who u r. revrnd? warlok? helena? tani jantsang?
nemo can spout crap n sven can bash ngrs. cos dosnt dictate belef, an that means it alows ppl to b wrong. publicly. thers not a man on lttd tht dosnt hav one problm or another. jus cuz i dslik nemo doent men i dislik cos. cos isnt lttd, isnt nemo, isnt vsngali.
if all o you posted it be4, do it 1 mor time 4 me now. summariz it hard n fast: Why are YOU so OBSESSED with TOV?
It has basically become "forbidden" for any white person to criticize a black's negative racist behaviors in today's anti-free speech and politically correct climate.
And only a simpleton would believe that those symbols are just Nazi symbols and therefore makes one a Nazi for using them.
Actually, these symbols have nothing to do with Nazis if one was to do their research. The CoS website also gives the meaning and explanation of the symbols they use and a reasonable explanation of their use is given in Peter Gilmore's new book.
Also, I have one CoS book that shows a picture of a black female CoS female priest so, if they are so racist, then why do they have members from different ethnic origins, even Jewish and homosexual? So, I do not feel that the CoS has any racist agendas and feel some are taking Svengali out of context.
I have even heard of black people talking about their own and say he is acting like a "nigger". So what is with the double standard as far as use of this word goes with the politically correct crowd? And shouldn't blacks stop calling each other niggers if they hate the word so much?
I notice that white people have to say n-word online or blank out some letters yet black people say, "Hey, wuz up Nigga?"
Am I racist, no, yet I do see some of where Svengali is coming from on violent black racist attitudes towards whites.
Just my thoughts.
Really? Is this what you believe?
I read one post on the ToV messageboard where Nemo said the undead gods/vampires where so real they could punch you in the nose, so I have to disagree with you on this. And their public website doesn't make them seem so 'imaginary'.
And many of the ToV members believe their undead gods are REAL and will even get offended if you don't capitalize the words "undead gods".
Therefore they believe these REAL beings do pop into your bedroom or in your mirror on your wall.
I even read one post where this female Adept was talking about undead passing real roses to members through their mirrors on their walls.
I disagree that it is just psychodrama. Whatever...
I totally agree with you here. I don't support the double standard when it comes to the race issue either. I also believe there is some truth to EVERY stereotype.
Svengali used to strike me as someone who was racist on just a simple awareness level - which is fine. I can say the same for myself and I feel everyone should be for their own safety.
Racism on an awareness level and blind prejudice are two different things however.
I feel Svengali has gone overboard with the nigger bashing. He went from being known for his deeply intellectual blogs on Satanism to blogs about ghettos chimping out. 98% of the time, for the last 2 years this is what he is writing about. It's gotten kind of old and it's starting to make one wonder.
Especially when he writes stuff like this:
Oct 9, 2009 1:45 AM
Subject: I HAVE A DREAM: A WORLD WITHOUT BLACKS
Body: PRICELESS: Local blacks riot at a black college over a sprinkler going off in a dorm room, the college tries to suppress the surveillance videos of the students acting, well, like a bunch of ignorant savage niggers (which they are), then tries to imply the police are "racist" for calling the riot a riot (approx. 100 people involved). The NAACP steps in. The videos get released and all the blacks involved from the students to the college faculty and NAACP look like a bunch of fucking assholes (which they are). The one good thing about Daytona is our Police Chief, he doesn't take any shit.
JDS
>>I HAVE A DREAM: A WORLD WITHOUT BLACKS.<<
Doesn't sound like he's only singling out the ghetto idiots to me. If I were a black CoS member, I would be outraged at this generalization. See, it wouldn't be an issue if he were only speaking of ghetto morons who deserve that type of treatment for perpetuating the stereotype. He wants ALL blacks to disappear. This is blatant prejudice and tarnishes the CoS' reputation.
>>Also, I have one CoS book that shows a picture of a black female CoS female priest <<
Of course they are not going to deny anyone over race or sexual orientation. I never said the CoS has a racist agenda. They just turn the other cheek when members express these views.
>>Actually, these symbols have nothing to do with Nazis if one was to do their research. <<
One can say the same for the Swastika. Originally, this symbol had nothing to do with Nazism at all. It's use by Nazi Germany has tainted it's original meaning. Same goes with the Wolfangel and Black Sun.
Look, I am not against any magical symbols or aesthetics you want to use in the ritual chamber if they resonate with you.
I'm just saying the use of these symbols are fairly recent in Satanism. I associate them with the Gilmore era. Couple that with Svengali's racist rants and I'm sure you can see why this all looks very bad.
it maks it easir to pick the idjits out o lttd when they got a vamp baner. let em show of ther dumbnes. i stil think it mite be a trap for dum ppl, take their cash n show who they r. nobodys shown a reson otherwys.
that 'i dream" bit was when most of us relized that sven really is a racist n not just very politcly incorect. feel bad 4 Callier. i hate ricism. still, im not gonna ask cos to kick sven out. diversity means ppl u dont lik. as 4 symbls, asl used nazi asthecks too. get ovr it.
y'all hatin the forest for a few ugly trees.
I think what affected me the most, being exposed to the Temple of the Vampire, was it forced me to face the thought of death in dying. Before, I was never really concerned about dying and just went on with my life and tried to ignore what I believed was the inevitable.
However, the Temple proposed some possibilities that one could supposedly live forever which made something wake up inside me and seemed very intriguing to me and still does.
So what affected me and was SO crushing, when I felt like the whole Temple was not real, was having to deal with the intense feeling that I never had a chance in the first place at living forever upon leaving which devastated me.
Before swallowing their sales pitch, I just wasn't aware of the price of being exposed to this group until writing this now. The price was that I have, recently, lived in fear of death and suffered almost daily wishing I could still live forever.
All of this has broke my heart because I truly don't want to die yet I feel that stopping the inevitable is completely out of my control and lost and I am back to square one. However, I will continue to consider life extension possibilities when the opportunity allows.
Yet why should I go on living with this fear or feeling of loss inside? Did being exposed to the Temple almost kill me inside emotionally or outside if I had not had strong enough of a will? It didn't drive me to a breaking point yet the pain I have experienced has left a permanent scar in my life.
I could have said if I am going to die anyway like the Temple says if one leaves then I should just kill myself now. I wonder if others who have lost membership or left will remain as strong as I have been or will they self-destruct?
I doubt the reader here may never know. YET, for some reason of mine, I am still here still alive and not wanting to let go of this life.
So what has the Temple done to me? In truth, just to be honest, I wish I would have never found them because of all of the emotional pain I have went through. I would be a liar if I said it did not affect me negatively.
Maybe I sound silly to those with a empathy deficit (and I don't care) yet if you have ever wanted something so bad and then feel like you have lost or never had it in the first place then you will know where I am coming from.
At times, when I think about mortality, I find myself overly depressed, crying at times and feeling like I have lost a dream because I don't want to die... I just don't and it hurts and tears me up deep inside.
Yet now, I am slapping myself in the face and questioning my own beliefs and anxieties about death and what others say and pulling myself out of the Temple's lucrative spell...
And I will remember one thing Dr. LaVey said in Satan Speaks relating to my experience, he advise, "Don't be a slave to other's subliminals."
Thank you Anton Szandor LaVey for that wonderful piece of advice! 😊
In the beginning, I don't currently feel Nemo was trying to undermine Satanism with this organization after reading his older essays in his recent book The Fire From Within and other writings defending Satanism.
However, I have wondered if his feelings towards the CoS has changed? I am not a mind reader so who knows?
Yet I do feel the creators of this project did not consider everything before releasing this project and feel that it is starting to backfire on them.
I realize this sounds presumptuous and maybe I am off on a lot of things; yet, if it was me, I would pull the plug before it did any more damage to the CoS or others and is too late.
Otherwise, good luck to those who feel a need to keep this going because there is such a thing as "cause and effect".
You have been warned.
2 any1- how dos tov harm me, the avg cos mebmer?
They are out there and they are dangerous!
How are they dangerous?
Well, in my own case it cost me almost three precious years of my life before I finally saw through the sham of one organization and began to undo the damage it caused to my life. [DITTO!!!]
Yes, I said damage! [DITTO]"
Taken from:
http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/PseudoS.html
I guess he isn't SO 'concerned' these days... or the CoS...
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Bunco.html
I guess we both have something in common...
do i think thats wuz hapening? not rlly. but ther r questions. also quesnts- wer rex n ygraine tov or tos?
and still- how dos tov hurt th avergae cos membr? u shouldnt be surprizd to see a satanist act selifh. why shoud EYE care?
I highly doubt the Church of Satan is obsessive enough to concoct this secret plot to test their members true faith. This popular conspiracy theory is silly and weak.
The structure of CoS membership is quite simple.
You pay $200 - that buys you a red card and makes you a registered member. Nothing more. At this point, they don't care who you are. They don't have to. You are basically just a supporter.
The screening process is only necessary for ACTIVE membership. At this point, You represent the CoS and who you really are is important to them. When HP Gilmore & Council awards you your rank, they are recognizing you as a true Satanist. No need for silly traps or mind games here.
Face the truth. The ToV is robbing and taking advantage of well-meaning CoS members. And it's quite unfair to say that many deserve this treatment when all they are doing is trusting the Hierarchy in an organization they are active in and admire.
>>if u c tov as cos's immune system, hell id respekt the guy. rob the fools f ther mony, sell em imortltly, label em 4 all 2 c.<<
This is just deplorable. You think it's respectable for an organization to deceive it's members? What makes you exempt from them doing the same to you? What's wrong with the CoS just being more discerning, instead of playing mind games with people? It's quite beneath them.
>>wer rex n ygraine tov or tos? <<
Both Magister Rex and Magistra Ygraine were ex Temple of Set members. As was Ygraine's pedo ex- husband, Rev. Jesus of Borg aka William Gidney.
>>how dos tov hurt th avergae cos membr?<<
You still don't get it. At this point I doubt you ever will.
Posted by Pastor Joe in Church Administrative Office. on Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 11:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you all buy that, I'll throw in the vacuum cleaner for free!
Children have invisible friends.
Adults have god.
Go play with your Jesus Action Figure and leave us "occults" alone . . . ok?
Better yet . . . go buy a Nemo action figure.
We will see who is laughing when Satan decides he's used you enough and cuts the string. You will be broken and you will ask God for help. Evil this is all evil!
CHILDREN and ANIMALS? Lol! REALLY!
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0A4_bwCaX0