Vampire Sites

LaVey was a carney. 'nuff said for whether or not he would rip someone off. Anyone who forks over the $200, or the $30 for the Vamp Bible should realize they are only for personal gratification. They are supposed to be social clubs and that's their due. At this point, both organizations draw membership in conjunction. You decide on their legitimacy yourself, and that's what matters. To many, they are a scam, but everything has value of one sort or another. It's up to you whether or not you buy into what they say and read between the lines. If you are looking at the COS or TOV, you are probably interested in "magic" of one form or another no matter what you wish to call it. Call it a wish to control. What does it hurt to look? Not everything either group says is bullshit- both have valid points. In the end, isn't the goal to attain your desires by ANY means necessary: Real or imaginary, magic or manipulation. It is survival of the fittest. I just wouldn't belong to either one anymore because they have become cheesy, and one of them has asked members to do things which violate confidentiality.

i got my 2hundred bucks worth. which 1 had ppl violate confidntalty? ps it wasn my theory. i don even agree withit.

I forgot to say that if you are interested in what any of these cults (TOV/COS/other) have to offer-study them in relation to what has already been documented, such as ancient religions (mythology) and how they relate to now. By practice, science is just as much a "religion" as any other, well...religion. "So above (macroscopic), it is below (microscopic)." We take it for granted. I could site many parallels between ancient symbology and science-they were not so dumb, but that would be much longer. Science theorizes on how the universe began (creation), how it works in the present tense (laws), and how it will end (destruction). We hold only "world views" which inch ever closer to the ultimate truth of reality. It is that some people or groups claim to possess secret insights (gnosis/enlightenment) which attracts us. The only way to find out if you're right is to die, but many claims made by cults can be debunked beforehand, which I have also done with the TOV. They raise interesting questions which are NEVER answered. However, they are mostly philosophically sound. Later.

To Old Age-In 2006, the TOV announced that it was imperative that temple members place a disclaimer on their online profile's (facebook, myspace, etc.) that stated affiliation. It also encouraged members to "rat each other out" if they knew of other members that didn't post the disclaimer. This is in direct contradiction to their doctrine to "never alert the herd." Moreover, the TOV is not on the hunt of truth, but on the perpetuation of dogma. That is, if you cannot question or challenge your teacher, you are cast aside and labelled an outsider. One unworthy or unchosen. It didn't use to be that way, at one time it was okay to express one's opinion because it was a forum. If your teacher had no retort to your inquiries- he acknowledged that fact and did not demonize you for it. To question is to pursue what is truth.

Sorry so long, but in furtherance of my statement above- "the TOV is not on the hunt of 'truth,' but on the perpetuation of dogma." This is a contradiction of their title statement of "Truth lies within, fact and fancy, truth and metaphor..(da dum) Discriminate with care." There is only dogma and you should not question when within their ranks! If you question, it hurts their feelings very much so.

>>>But one individual I will point out as the "smooth talking con-artist" I mentioned, is Nemo. He obviously has a working relationship with Gilmore on some level.<<<

@george carlin:

Proof of that association abounds in Nemo's book The Fire From Within.

Both the CoS and the ToV are systemic in nature and both offer well defined boxes for one to think within. The CoS used to represent mental fluidity but has denigrated down into dogma and boot licking. If anyone disbelieves that, try posting a well thought out discussion topic on LTTD on a 'taboo' subject and see how long your post lasts.

The CoS used to be about freeing oneself from dogma. Now it's about becoming dogmatic.

Enigma:

You pretty much nailed the hammer on the head.

Yes, I personally feel some CoS Satanists have become very "politically correct" and close-minded.

I believe some are suffering from a bad case of moose lodge syndrome/know-it-all-ism and are forgetting about celebrating the flesh. There is more to life than pretentious posturing.

P.s. Don't forget to go out and buy a cute gangster hat, suit, get some runes, and build up your film noir video library if you want to "fit in". *gag*

I have come across this thread and want to add something to it. I have come across some information and don't know what to make of it.

Someone who used to be in the inner-circles of the COS (i.e. not the public face) sent me some documents that make me scratch my head.

It seems that the inner circles hold MUCH different views than is placed on the website and in "public".

In it, the COS talks about Satan AS A REAL BEING.

Seriously. I was shocked about it.

Also, it describes Satan as a VAMPIRIC Entity.

So, what's the deal here?

Initially, I thought maybe this was an offshoot of the TOS folks figuring it was written by Aquino.

But it wasn't.

Here are some quotes: "...the power of Satanism lies just as much in its metaphorical strength as in its advocacy of uncompromising rationality. Some Satanists prefer to use the term "magic" instead of "spirituality" because magic is active; spirituality implies passivity. Whatever term you feel comfortable with, we are different from atheists or humanists. We use rituals and symbols, talismans and invocations to call forth the Dark Gods within us. We must speak in metaphors, not to be purposely obfuscating but for two valid reasons:

1) It is the only language the Ones Without understand. They are like animals. They may not entirely understand the words we speak. What they understand are the vibrations of our language, our emotions and the thought-forms we use to focus Them.

2) Because we, as Satanic Magicians, are pioneers exploring vast, uncharted territories, and only poetic language is able to reach into the furthest borderlands of our comprehension. Magic is alchemical physics. We live in a spiral galaxy, our genetic code is a helix. Perhaps our physics and our magic would work differently in another galaxy, but here, everything can be reduced to frequencies and waves (which are only spirals seen from a fixed, limited perspective). Everything is spirals, not direct recapitulations. Energy is never wasted. Acquired knowledge confers further individuation, and consequently more individual power. If the Satanist has "faith", he has unshakable faith in the power of his own mind. The best of us are curious, imaginative, inventive, determined creatures, worthy of sincere admiration. All we have theorized about all our sciences may crumble tomorrow - but only because we could conjure forth the defiant courage necessary to smash everything we know in order to understand even more completely."

Also "But this is fact: Unlike the promises of the Christians, Satan does develop an intensely intimate relationship with each of his followers. You may not perceive it until you train yourself to sense it, but since you have achieved the position of Grotto Master, You have probably already been touched by it. He will remain with you until your breath leaves your body. And perhaps beyond. Denying that reality - one based on our own personal experience and senses - would be any equal offense to our own minds. Therefore, we accept it for what it is, revel in it and explore it. We are the only ones who are able to explore these realms objectively, since we are the only ones who seem able to blend the rational and the irrational."

And this: "Always remember - BLACK MAGIC IS DANGEROUS. If someone invokes the Dark Ones frivolously or fearfully, he is laying himself wide open for terrible psychic torture, physical torment, psychological damage and death by suicide or happenstance. There is good reason why diabolical rites are cloaked in secrecy and whispered of in hushed tones. They should be. Make no mistake. It is simply too potent for most people unless they come to Satanism of their own free Will. Do not push someone to experience more than be or she can handle. That's part of your job as Master - to evaluate what each individual in your group is ready to accept."

Now check THIS part out, noting the Vampire references: "atanic rituals and ceremonies should always be approached with an appropriate posture of respect and solemnity. We take our religion seriously. As familiar as you are with the others in your grotto, when you enter the ritual chamber, you become another being, crossing into another realm. You are reaching out into the black sethers, holding out your hand to your demon brothers. You must assume a self that would reflect that black fraternity, to allow them to use you as their bridge into this material world. They will breathe your breath, they will feel with your hands, see with your eyes. They are vampires; they feed off of you. Satan himself is a vampire who will reward you only as long as you feed him. That is your contract. It's a harsh reality, but one a true magician understands and revels in.

Allow yourself a few moments before entering the chamber to achieve that state of active receptivity, to prepare yourself to be entered by the Dark Ones. Bring forth from within your own diabolical soul the magic and majesty that is due our Dark Lord. Ceremonies and rituals should be bold, well-orchestrated and purposeful. This is how we honor our Gods. By setting a stage they can feel honored to enter."

So, comments? What's the deal here?

Interesting read there, EXCoser.

To me it boils down to a mixture of 'self transformative psychodrama' (heard that one before?) and creating a god in one's own image.

That's not to say that I don't think it's possible to influence the universe (for lack of a better word) to deliver one's Will. The mysteries therein are many.

In this way, I think Satanism (especially ritual magic) can be seen as a front end access point to a large backend application (the Universe).

There are many front end access points.

Christians may use prayer, those attracted to or hailing from the East may use the Chakras, a Satanist may use ritual magic.. all are an attempt to punch through into a Greater force to present one's will in the hope of a return dividend.

The mystery isn't in the face (or the aesthetic) of a front end access point but in the potential vastness of what is being connected to.

EXCOSer,

That piece was written by Blanche Barton for the COS Grotto Master's Handbook in the early '90s. It's still available online if you search the usenet groups. It's reflective of Anton Lavey's convictions over his lifetime.

Satanists who try to straight-line the issues of atheism and spirituality -- or materialism and the paranormal -- will get a kick out of it.

Fellow,
Thank you for clarifying that. He/she that I got the stuff from didn't know who the actual author was.

It is interesting to read, that's for sure. Sure puts a different spin on the public/private face of the COS at least in the past. With the raging Atheism of Gilmore, he probably threw that out.

Sp, I wonder if this is where the TOV got some of its inspiration from?

EXCoser

Not likely. The TOV was established a few years before that.

One thing I'm not clear on. Is Nemo the same dude as Lucas Martel? The threads here have said he is and isn't.

I am baffled... There are people out there selling a vampire bible!?!? That's almost as ridiculous as someone selling a bible of a guy who may or may not have been around 2000 years ago..... Oh wait, they did that already.

Well I'm jumping on the band wagon, up for sale is the bible accoring to me. For just

to whom it may concern

ok i have read the TOV's website and even its bible and its written for the weak minded, young men and women that dont know what they want in life or feel confused. my ex wife fell into that trap while we were in iraq (operative word ex). she is one of those people that got pulled into something that you cant learn but comes natural to some people like a friend of mine who drains the energy out of people when she is sick or in one case had heart failure. i was there and saw the doctors and nurses go in full of energy and well rested walk out ready to pass out while she was able to get up on her own and go to the restroom after being giving enough pain killers to take an elephant down. that is vamparism and she doesnt do it on purpose, her body draws on the lifeforce of others to heal itself, thats not something you can learn form a 50 page bible and it is the suppose to be the only true vampire bible........ BULLSHIT. so go spend your money on something ment to draw people in and rip them off if you want but you have been warned. my ex never learned to draw on anyones life force, i cant do it and i am of sound mind and body. nether of us ever saw a undead vampire god or anything else that book says.

goodnight
deathdealer

to ex members of tov:

hopefuly ppl who know wut they r talking about can answer.

how long does the tov hold on to the copy of ur picture id/drivers liscense after u leave the tov?

do they use the id copy as a link for feeding or for magical attacks on ppl who's id's they have?

do they have that kind of power?

what can you do to protect urself from them doing something like this to u or from even doing something smaller like looking up ur financial info?

do they use the id copy as a link for feeding or for magical attacks on ppl who's id's they have?


How do you know vampires are real? You are presupposing they are by your question. And what evidence do you have that could convince all readers of these posts here that they are REAL and do the things you are fantasizing about?

do they have that kind of power?

To answer your question would require you to take it on FAITH (faith is belief not based on proof).

And there is a reason why this discussion is located on a website called the "Museum of Hoaxes".

Also, if you research this religion further you will discover that the temple even suggests to "believe nothing and test everything".

You sound like a "believer" to me.

May I have your driver's license because I am starting to get really hungry? Lol!

u make some good points. i agree with you.

i don't have much evidense at all that they r anything other than a money scam but i just want to be safe an see what i can do to protect myself incase they are more than just a scam.

also just because they are being discussed in a hoax website doesn't necessarily mean they are fake. some fish, for instance, were thought to be extinct and were discussed openly in prehistoric contexts, when the truth turned out to be that they are not extinct (coelacanth fish).

i hope they r not real but i want to know what ex members have done and what i can do to protect myself against them incase they are more than just a con.

i'm not a believer in the tov necessarily, but i am pretty convinced of paranormal realities, etc. (due to personal experience), and i don't want to end up like these people who end up killing themselves cuz they were driven mad by voices in their heads and crap like that. extreme example, but you get the point.

any input from former members here?

For Zeus- as a ToV member, you shouldn't need me to remind you that we don't evangelize or argue. Recognize these people for what they are, and leave them be. If someone belongs with us, they'll come to us. If they criticize us, they don't understand our position, and probably never will.

...we don't evangelize...

Really? What do you call leaving Temple cards everywhere (if they still do that?) and having banners all over LTTD?

Remove your ToV banners off of your social networking sites and LTTD if you don't evangelize.

If someone belongs with us, they'll come to us.

There are many that do come and buy the Vampire Bible yet get no results and still leave? The Temple site claims if you buy the Bible and call them they WILL COME.

Wouldn't you feel "ripped off" if you bought the book and tried it and got no results according to the website claims.

I want my money back!

They should at least give you the first 3 months risk free so you can get your money back if your "only human".

if a vampire, or witch? duz a magical attack on you, they wont do it over your licence! thats ridiculous!!!!! if u quit the temple, you will not be be in any danger whatsoever... theres people joining the temple every other day. 1 leaves the temple and 2 more join rite after ect....

I read the tov and yes! i did see and notice strange happenings! i know it sounds crazy! you DO feel like a new person. More aware , more focused, and understanding most people almost seeing rite thru them. and the most beautiful thing about it that your image will change, people will look at you diffirent (in a good way), maybe more intrigued about u!! like they may look at you and a stranger may ask," who is that person", "thats some1 i would love to meet!!!" After reading the tov, these things began happening!!, i began to feel some what special or important to people, i mean... these so called humans!!!! cuz i began to feel maybe... unhuman?

In the tov book there are rituals that you have to follow to achieve these powers and magic! you just dnt recve sumthing by just reading. theres rituals and magic involved, its all mind, body, and ur spirit... test everything!!! for example any kind or type of dr. will heal you, its not only the meds...its also the rituals they preform, u dont see it, but they do! From a witch dr. chanting over you, to a preist chanting his blessing. its all rituals, sumthing that may help better than a pain killer!!! so, if you only read the book and failed to practice the rituals, than yes u deserve to feel nothing! so sorry... thats how magic works!

I read the tov and yes! i did see and notice strange happenings! i know it sounds crazy! you DO feel like a new person. More aware , more focused, and understanding most people almost seeing rite thru them. and the most beautiful thing about it that your image will change, people will look at you diffirent (in a good way), maybe more intrigued about u!! like they may look at you and a stranger may ask," who is that person", "thats some1 i would love to meet!!!" After reading the tov, these things began happening!!, i began to feel some what special or important to people, i mean... these so called humans!!!! cuz i began to feel maybe... unhuman?

Sorry yet that sounds too much like some Christian that got saved and talks to everyone about how the Lord changed their life and they saw Jesus on a piece of toast.

I think if you had some 'genuine' experiences then you would keep them 'secret' instead of advertising on here, wouldn't they.

Why is their such a strong need to try and defend the Temple or justify your experiences to others, especially, on here?

Do you have doubts?

At least for me, I invested in the Bible performed the rituals and got no results. I went into the whole thing with an open mind and still no results.

And if you get no results the only answer this cult will give you is that you "didn't try hard enough".

Ahh! What a CLEVER cult control tactic. Lol!

"Really? What do you call leaving Temple cards everywhere (if they still do that?) and having banners all over LTTD?"

thats not a very fair assessment. evangelism is the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs or religious principles to other who do not hold those beliefs.

linking banners to a website is not evangelism. if that were the case then someone providing a link to their favorite sports car would be considered evangelism. so that argument is sloppy.

"Remove your ToV banners off of your social networking sites and LTTD if you don't evangelize."

lol did you just tell them to remove something off of their own pages? that's pretty fucked up bro. how can you tell them what to do? are you their daddy? lol

I will not argue the evangelism thing with you anymore and I admit I was off on that argument.

STILL--I am sorry but the Temple cards still remind me of those annoying Christian flyers (litter) that Christians love leaving all over the place or annoying door hangers that companies leave on your door.

And I really feel that the Temple should not use the CoS as a billboard for its advertisement, just my opinion. If they are rulers of the earth then they shouldn't have any problems or need to rely on the CoS.

how can you tell them what to do? are you their daddy? lol

Of course, I don't think I can tell anyone what to do yet I think it is a good suggestion, in my opinion, especially, if your a "secret society".

However, read back earlier postings on here and, at least, see what you think about what other ex-members have said about the Temple.

As far as me, I have tried to remain as honest and objective as possible and have not purposely made any lies up.

I just shared my thoughts, experiences and theories (and I have to say most of what I have said are theories) and it is the readers job to decide if what I say has any merit. I also feel most of what has been by other posters has been accurate with the exception of a few comments.

I just honestly feel the Temple is a Hoax and a mind control cult.

I also suggest you read up on mind control cults and then use your own judgement to see if you are being manipulated.

And I am not your "bro" unless you was biologically born my brother. 😜

"STILL--I am sorry but the Temple cards still remind me of those annoying Christian flyers (litter) that Christians love leaving all over the place or annoying door hangers that companies leave on your door."

When that happens I just toss them in the garbage and carry on with my day. I suppose I dealt with enough crap to know a real problem to be upset about when I see one.

"And I really feel that the Temple should not use the CoS as a billboard for its advertisement, just my opinion. If they are rulers of the earth then they shouldn't have any problems or need to rely on the CoS."

The Church of Satan website has a shitload of other websites and societies not just the Temple. So should they remove those as well? After all who should use the CoS as a billboard right?

"And I am not your "bro" unless you was biologically born my brother"

How ironic you mention this right AFTER the "occult mind control" issue. Really would you have said such a thing if Magister Rose never mentioned it in one of his essays? I'm sorry to say but you wouldn't have bro. But you did so does that mean you were the victim of an occultic mind control system? No.

The Church of Satan website has a shitload of other websites and societies not just the Temple. So should they remove those as well? After all who should use the CoS as a billboard right?

I am talking about a CULT like those they warn about in their Satanic BUNCO sheet.

However, no matter what I say you will always be right anyway, right? *chuckles*

How ironic you mention this right AFTER the "occult mind control" issue. Really would you have said such a thing if Magister Rose never mentioned it in one of his essays?

Wow! Are we being nit-picky today! 😛 And you really like to argue and never be wrong, yes? 😉

Seriously, I guess all of us ex-ToV members are stupid and don't know anything we are talking about.

I guess the ToV and its members are never wrong... kind of like Christians believe they are always right and sinners are always stupid and wrong.

And, are you a ToV member like I was? If not then why are you on here running your mouth like you know what you are talking about?

Why are you defending an organization you have never even been a member of?

Unless... you are just an internet flamer arguing about something you haven't had any experience with. Now that is STUPID in my opinion.

And if you are a ToV member then why are you on here arguing and correcting *pfft* humans...

Don't Gods have better things like ruling the earth and screwing with their human slaves?

And shouldn't you ToV members be working on your carpenter skills so you can build little slave houses in your back yard for your human "pets"?

And members or ex-members, did the ToV ever tell you how you are going to rule the earth? I mean, if you are ruler, then you should at least know how to rule and what you will be ruling, right?

Ohh wait... just go out and read a few books on persuasion and you will be an instant RULER OF THE EARTH and can parade around like you are He-Man and the Masters of the Universe in the mall while making sucking noises at "humans".

Very impressive!

WOOWWW!!! IM SO FAR FROM CHRISTIAN I CANT EVEN SPELL SUCH A BIGOT WORD!! AND FOR ALL THOSE CHRISTIANS I MEAN, WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, THEIR TO BUSY OUT SINNING WHEN THEIR THE ONES THAT WANT US TO HAVE A GOD FORGIVE US FOR OUR SINS, AND THEIR THE ONES THAT GET CAUGHT WITH THIER PANTS DOWN.... TO EMBARRASSED TO FACE A GOD AND TO FACE THE CONSEQUINCES?
AND THE ONLY PERSON THATS GONNA CHANGE MY LIFE IS ME (NOT THE LORD)DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHO THE LORD JESUS WAS? HES THE 1ST VAMPIRE, MAN WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD! AND WHATEVER NUTJOB WROTE THE BIBLE, KNEW THAT!
AND THERE ARE NO SECRETS ANYMORE IN LIFE, THATS JUST HOW IT IS TODAY,SO IF YOU WANA DO SUMTHING POSITIVE LET PEOPLE KNOW.
AND I DONT BELEIVE IN YOU, DOCUMENTING INFO ON THIS WEB. UR NO BETTER THAN ANY1 ELSE, WHY SHOULD I? NOBODY BELIEVES IN YOU! THATS WHY PEOPLE TEST YOU, AND DOUBT EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU! TO MAKE URSELF A BETTER PERSON, U HAVE CREATE IT FOR URSELF, THAT WAY, PEOPLE WILL LOOK UP TO YOU, BEGIN TO LOVE AND RESPECT YOU, LIKE A TRUE VAMPIRE!
AND MAYBE YOU DIDNT TRY HARD ENUFF PRIVATE, WHO KNOWS? HUMANS ARE KNOWN TODO A LOT OF HALF ASS THINGS!!!

Ah, idiocy. I think that just proved a lot of people's arguments. Thanks, Lonnie.

Actually if we look at The Satanic Bunco Sheet the Temple doesn't really qualify. Besides is The Satanic Bunco Sheet the gospel of Satanism or somehing?

The Satanic Bunco Sheet is for pseudo Satanic organizations. The Temple does not even claim to be a "Satanic" organization.

Here's a thought, most folks on this board are up in arms about how the leadership of The Church of Satan is handling the Temple of the Vampire. Some even go so far as o say they are making a profit from it. Well refer to point number 6 of The Bunco Sheet, particularly: " To make their rationale work, they must somehow convince you that the author of The Satanic Bible wasn

Anton Lavey could care less about the temple! the only reason the billboard of the temple of the vampire is only bc of its advertisement thats it, and thats all. whats a better place for it? i believe the temple and the church of satan are 2 diffirent things. (things, meaning religion)
Im sure lavey duz trust peter gilmore and peggy nadramia, only there running a totally diffirent show than lavey would. maybe promising a ceremony ritual like lavey would run, but not to his extreme.

Im sure lavey duz trust peter gilmore and peggy nadramia...

Lol! And there is not much that he could do it about NOW.

The Satanic Bunco Sheet is for pseudo Satanic organizations.

I agree; however, if you read this document there are some strong similarities between what is being warned about from the more cult-like pseudo-Satanic organizations and the ToV. Unfortunately, you would only realize this if you were a ToV member AND a Satanist.

For example, it says "...be warned: there are unethical individuals out there who will prey upon you, claim to teach you how to become a Great Black Magician overnight, who will promise instructional fellowship and activities with

BTW. Saying that the Temple doesn't evangelize is UTTER BS.

Nemo complains CONSTANTLY that the "Masters" and "Founders" of the Temple are pissed because there isn't enough recruiting going on.

He keeps threatening to close it down because the members of the Temple aren't gaining enough NEW "blood".

Fucking pun intended.

There is even an article in "Bloodlines" about it.

So don't feed us that bullshit because we aren't hungry.

EXCoser

He keeps threatening to close it down because the members of the Temple aren't gaining enough NEW "blood".

I vaguely remember reading a comment in a post of his on the Lifeforce messageboard where he said that he wondered why he kept on still doing this (referring to keeping the Temple going).

Well, he should just quit and move on to something else in his life is my answer. Isn't that what he tells others that are not Satanists?

I think he should quit complaining and just shut it all down because this "experiment" has already made the CoS look bad enough.

And I am not referring to the contents of this MoH thread yet complaints and pejorative comments about the CoS/ToV association have been going on before this thread in other forums in other online forums too.

And, certainly, someone who is a ruler of the earth and has attained as much success as he has as a vampire could find another hobby.

Remember, that vampires control the corporations of the world so I am sure he could find some other projects to keep himself busy.

If he is a "ruler of the earth" then I am sure he has more money and success and power than Anton LaVey, Peter Gilmore or Blanche Barton, the President of the United States, Bill Gates of Microsoft or Donald Trump and shouldn't have any trouble finding other things to do.

I mean he is a GOD, right?

1. EXCOSer states: "I have come across this thread and want to add something to it. I have come across some information and don't know what to make of it.

Someone who used to be in the inner-circles of the COS (i.e. not the public face) sent me some documents that make me scratch my head.

It seems that the inner circles hold MUCH different views than is placed on the website and in "public".

In it, the COS talks about Satan AS A REAL BEING."

Anton LaVey states: "To us

Thoughts,

I already responded and sited the source for EXCOSer's article. It is the Grotto Master's Handbook written by Blanche Barton in the early 1990's. Scour around the alt.satanism archives and you may be able to find it.

No, it isn't a theistic document. It was written for those already fluent in Satanism's metaphorical speak, but it does go beyond the Satanism as skeptical atheism in drag tune (pushed more in its contemporary phase). Again -- those who like to keep materialism in a neat package close by and "spiritual" experiences in the garbage bin will get a kick out of the Handbook.

The ToV is entirely unrelated with the only association being cross-membership.

Best,
Fellow

EXCOSer claimed this was released from the "inner circle" of the CoS. Grotto Masters are NOT considered the "inner circle". In fact the entire Grotto system is phased out. From the CoS Affiliation page: "The Grotto System

Over the years, our

Don't know why you're getting your shorts all bunched up over this. Glad you can copy and paste from the website.

Best,
F

Do you have an issue with me putting correct and accurate information on here? Why do you care if I copy/paste from the official Church of Satan website. Does it bother you so much that you have to be sarcastic about it? Just because the official website contradicts what you fucktards are saying. Go buy a bib you're slobbering again.

I didn't post those excerpts to start a theistic/non-theistic debate, but because it mentioned the symbolism of the Vampire.

EXCoser

Thought,

None of this matters. The Handbook was circulated to the Priesthood that did participate in the Grotto system. It wasn't written by an obscure Grotto master, it was written by Sharon Densley (Blanche Barton) during Lavey's lifetime.

Thanks EXCOSer. Your contribution was relevant.

"None of this matters. The Handbook was circulated to the Priesthood that did participate in the Grotto system. It wasn't written by an obscure Grotto master, it was written by Sharon Densley (Blanche Barton) during Lavey's lifetime."

Prove it. Can you provide substantial evidence? If you say the evidence is there then show me it. The burden of proof is on YOU.

Read my previous post where I provide a link to it's release on the old usenet groups. If you're going to march in with a brazen demeanor at least do some legwork beforehand.

F

I miss Boyd Rice...

"Read my previous post where I provide a link to it's release on the old usenet groups. If you're going to march in with a brazen demeanor at least do some legwork beforehand."

In other words you have no proof. It is not up to me to prove what YOU have said is true. Not a fan of faith! Again the burden of proof is on YOU.

"In other words you have no proof."

I want to make a comment on your butchering the concept of "proof." Proof works in degrees; it's not a straight-shot answer more than half the time. Considering the Grotto Master's Handbook is no longer in use by the CoS today don't expect a http://www.churchofsatan.com copy and paste answer.

In any case, here it is:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.satanism/browse_thread/thread/5f22bc9f455066f7/798bb6d184f1fcec?q=CoS+grotto+handbook