The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
Page 17 of 99 pages ‹ First  < 15 16 17 18 19 >  Last ›
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 08:14 AM
pushy said:

"Some of my best distributors were once narrowminded, negative, skeptical people just like you. Now they are running very successful businesses and enjoying the benefits of the patches.....all just because they gave the patches a try."

Would you be so kind as to give us the names and phone numbers of a few of those people so that we can contact them and verify what you say here? I'm sure they would be happy to brag about their success.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 10:53 AM
PUSHY

Have you signed up for the Million Dollars yet?

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Pushy?
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 12:17 PM
EDHUK said "Have you signed up for the Million Dollars yet?"

Yes I have signed up for Lifewave.

Cheers
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 12:28 PM
PUSHY

You are such a clever person. Very droll.

We all know what I meant. I presume that, just like ALL your predecessors, you have not got the bottle to apply to James Randi.

You know you cannot win the prize with a placebo, pure and simple.

Thanks for your contribution to the forum.

NEXT PLEASE.

*
Pushy?
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 12:41 PM
Lifewave does not fall under the categories of pseudoscience or paranormal activity and therefore does not qualify for JREF and nor do I have time to set up a research project and conduct research. I'll leave that to the many professionals/Doctors etc. who are already doing research.

I'll spend my time building my lifewave business.

CMG - I will not provide names and #'s of my downline to you. I really don't know you. Maybe you are a spammer like WWSN.
Joe
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 12:51 PM
"Lifewave does not fall under the categories of pseudoscience or paranormal activity and therefore does not qualify for JREF and nor do I have time to set up a research project and conduct research."

Sounds like a previous poster that wiggled his way out of the challenge.


??
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 12:56 PM
Pushy?

What a pitty you don't keep up with this.

LifeWave patches were approved for the challenge on a previous occasion and mentioned in this forum.

They, like you, bottled out.

James Randi does categorize the patches as pseudoscience etc. How could they possibly be anything else. Surely you're not implying that they actually do something.

As for research etc. and not having time. You don't need but a few minutes to apply to James Randi. You do not have to conduct the trials.

Here is the site address.

http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html

"...what powers or abilities will be demonstrated..." You will be demonstrating measurable increases in energy as the body is triggered by the patches to make more energy.

Simple.

Now why don't you do us all a favor and apply. After all, you're so sure it's the real thing you actually believe you're going to become a millionaire!

Any questions?


Regards.

*
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 01:52 PM
Pushy said:

"CMG - I will not provide names and #'s of my downline to you. I really don't know you. Maybe you are a spammer like WWSN."

Exactly the answer I anticipated. In other words, you want to make unsupported statements about your little plastic patches and simply expect us to believe you. It is to laugh.

I don't know you either. Why should I believe you when you say that little plastic patches do amazing things that defy everything we know about medicine and anatomy?

Oh, by the way, I don't believe you when you say you're getting rich off this fraud, either. I believe you're TRYING to, but I don't believe you ARE.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 01:54 PM
Pushy said:

"...nor do I have time to set up a research project and conduct research. I'll leave that to the many professionals/Doctors etc. who are already doing research."

I suppose you won't supply the names of these "many professionals/Doctors etc." either, right? After all, I might "spam" them. I'll bet those imaginary doctors just HATE it when someone spams them!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 02:00 PM
EDHUK said:

"Have you signed up for the Million Dollars yet?"

Silly EDHUK. Pushy is making SO much money selling little plastic patches that he simply doesn't have the time to apply for a mere million dollars. That would be like Bill Gates leaning down to pick up a penny off the sidewalk.

I find it amazing that such wealthy people as Pushy still have the time to come to our humble forum and argue with us. I guess we're all just blessed by their presence.
Carter S
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 05:56 PM
CMG-

"This is an attempt at communication. The less well you communicate, the harder it is to understand what you're trying to say. That isn't anyone's fault but your own."

So it's my fault, because people like razel, and hcmomof4 are trying to put on a contest?
So, you can't tell what people are saying, just because they forget to put the CAPS on, or put the letter "i" in Lying. Hmm, that's odd to me.


"Why is it that illiterates and semi-literates in America seem to think that anyone who expects them to be able to communicate on an adult level is asking too much of them? Exactly how low do you expect us to set the bar for you? Why aren't you apologetic for your inadequate communication skills? Are we supposed to be sorry because we CAN spell and use the language correctly?"

hmm, I am not illiterate or even semi-literate, I am completely literate. Why should people go out of their way to make everything perfect, when it's only a forum, and you know damn well what they're saying.

What am i saying here:

u ar not a veiry smart purson.

"I don't know you either. Why should I believe you when you say that little plastic patches do amazing things that defy everything we know about medicine and anatomy?"

No one knows you either. So why should we believe anything that you have to say. Why should anyone listen to you?

"I find it amazing that such wealthy people as Pushy still have the time to come to our humble forum and argue with us. I guess we're all just blessed by their presence."


In your case, you should be blessed.

EDHUK, RULES. EDHUK is pretty much saying what I want to say. that's why I haven't written anything about this subject yet.

GOOD LUCK EDHUK!!!
Carter S
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 06:02 PM
Cmg,

I am not human being, I just wanted to give you crap on this forum. Just for the hell of it.

Sorry dude. Just having fun.

I don't know anything about lifewave patches anyway. So I am out!!!
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 08:21 PM
Oh thank you Carter. You successfully came to this forum and personally attacked members just for your own amusement. Sounds like you lead a fulfilling life.

I love the way you take things out of context and misinterpret things that were written. Maybe you should start selling lifewave patches. You'd fit in real well.
Pushy?
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 08:36 PM
CMG,

You are right...I am not getting rich of Lifewave. I am making enough that I know longer have to work though. Sucks to be you
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 09:19 PM
You are right...I am not getting rich of Lifewave. I am making enough that I know longer have to work though. Sucks to be you

Methinks Pushy is playing a little game.

of LifeWave...off LifeWave

know longer...no longer

I'm thinking Pushy may be a youngster having some fun!

Hilarious Pushy. Most entertaining.

Meanwhile............

David Schmidt and his company continue to make money from a scam product. This forum probably won't have much to do with the downfall of the company, but perhaps it will continue to provide food for thought to the thinking first time visitor.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
hcmomof4
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 | 11:10 PM
Just to clarify my position on proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc.:

As far as I can tell, I don't see it as a contest. Anyone past a 3rd grade education in the U.S. has learned (or had the opportunity to learn) the basic rules. I'm not talking about USING ALL CAPS, or even a typo here and there. And I do realize that it is somewhat of an obsession with me, so I try not to comment on every instance I see. I have faults of my own even. Ever bother to notice how many times I start a sentence with the word "and"?...

It's just that an argument comes across much better if it doesn't appear to have been pieced together ransom-note style.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 | 02:58 AM
Pushy said:

"You are right...I am not getting rich of Lifewave. I am making enough that I know longer have to work though. Sucks to be you"

You might consider taking a small fraction of your incredible wealth from selling small adhesive plastic patches and spending it on an English As A Second Language class.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 | 03:11 AM
Carter, I'm not here to engage in decoding. If you can't or won't expend the energy to communicate clearly, why should I take anything you say seriously?

If you notice, I go to some trouble to show who I am responding to and to say what I'm trying to say as clearly as possible. That's because I am sincerely interested in having a conversation and because I am showing you respect. The fact that this "conversation" is happening on a bulletin board doesn't change the need to communicate clearly.

Since this is a somewhat "one-dimensional" medium, with no facial expressions or inflections to help a reader with interpretation, it's imperative to make your points as clearly as possible.

If someone (no, I don't mean YOU) communicates like an idiot, what evidence do I have that they are NOT an idiot?

The better you communicate, the better the chance you will be understood as you intend. It isn't the job of your reader to figure out what you meant, as opposed to what you SAID.

"So it's my fault, because people like razel, and hcmomof4 are trying to put on a contest?"

I don't know exactly what you mean by that. For me, all I want is to understand as clearly as possible what my opponent is trying to say in a debate.

"So, you can't tell what people are saying, just because they forget to put the CAPS on, or put the letter "i" in Lying. Hmm, that's odd to me."

Oh, if only those were the worst errors! Take a look at some of the postings, especially from certain people. I feel like I'm trying to decypher the Rosetta Stone when I read what they type.
Pushy?
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 | 09:13 AM
EDHUK & CMG,

No I am not some kid having fun. I am 44 years old and no longer have to go to my 9-5 job. Lifewave has created a financially secure future for me.


Congrats - you passed the test EDHUK & CMG!!
I purposely used both words in the wrong context just to prove a point. You truly are digging deep to prove Lifewave wrong.

You guys really have nothing else to do but make fun of Lifewave and its distrubutors.

I really am truly sorry that you can't see past the end of your nose.

By the way, I was formerly an english teacher!! lol
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 | 09:33 AM
So, back to the plot.

LifeWave is a scam MLM company making outrageous claims for a set of patches, brown (glucose) and white (glycerin). They have flooded the internet with distributor cookie cutter websites and their owner/inventor, David Schmidt, is asking us to believe he has discovered the "coding language" of the body.

Sounds very reasonable! Why would any of us doubt his word?

I previously posed a question. Still waiting for an answer.

If the patches are coded to send a message to your body to "make energy", it must be possible to receive and confirm the existence of this message with currently available equipment.

That's how David Schmidt is able to "set" the various codes he uses in his plastic circles. He must do quality control, surely? Take a set of patches and confirm with the test equipment that the signal is being sent correctly.

You wouldn't want a malfunctioning batch getting out to your distributors would you?

Imagine a "make gas" set accidentally being manufactured. Phew!

This whole process of testing is in the real world. I'm sure David Schmidt would be very happy to throw open the doors of his "manufacturing" plant to show the world the process, the testing, the coding "patterns" on the screen. Wouldn't he?

He is, after all, a man of impeccable background, a crusader, a man of integrity and the highest moral values. A man with nothing to hide, and, if we are to believe LifeWavers, a highly successful businessman.

I imagine the IRS would be able to judge just how successful from the honestly completed tax returns, right?

?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 | 09:43 AM
Pushy

Now you are a really clever 44 year old who decided educating the future leaders of our country was no longer worth it. You have decided to hitch your wagon to a scam MLM company. Congratulations.

With all the teacher shortages, I feel sure you'll have no trouble finding a job when the time comes. Oh, I forgot. You are making so much money (and the money is the #1 reason you are doing this) you will retire in luxury.

You guys really have nothing else to do but make fun of Lifewave and its distrubutors.

There is nothing "funny" about fraud. I continue to post in the vain hope that even one person might read this forum and save themselves from people like you.

!
Carter S
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 | 12:13 PM
Razela,

"Oh thank you Carter. You successfully came to this forum and personally attacked members just for your own amusement. Sounds like you lead a fulfilling life."

Actually I do lead a fulfilling life. You got that right Razela, good job! I came in here to joke around with Cranky Media Guy. I have been debating him for a while, I just noticed this page and found him in here. But I wanted him to think that I was human being. It was a joke to him. Not to you.

I was also making fun of human being because he/she really seems to like EDHUK.
If you noticed, I made fun of that.

Seriously, Sorry if I offended you Razela. It was not intended for you.

"I love the way you take things out of context and misinterpret things that were written. Maybe you should start selling lifewave patches. You'd fit in real well."

Again I was trying to misinterpret stuff. It was a joke to Cranky Media Guy.
Carter S
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 | 12:24 PM
Cranky Media Guy,

Cranky, I was not serious. The whole time I was thinking, 'cranky's going to be so irratated'. But I figured you would know it was a joke. Since I wrote that I was just giving you crap. Sorry dude.

But everything that I said was not serious. I was just writing crap down. With my questions, again they were all just things I didn't mean, it was all nonsense.

I knew exactly what you meant, and agreed with you when you were talking to human being about the communication. I hate it when people have bad grammar and puntuation as well. I know I do from time to time, but everyone does. It's still irratating.

Well, again sorry about that.

Razela, I will always be happy to misinterpret your writings.

OK, NOW Back to the discussion................
Carter S
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 | 12:28 PM
Cranky,

One more thing before I go.

I am just as frustrated, because I read Kellys entries, and you know how frustrating that is...

Anyway, back to the discussion...........
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 | 02:44 PM
Post September LifeWave Conference

Seems to me there has been nothing of any import since the much anticipated conference.

We've had a few humorous postings and some where the "expert" poster has been mortally offended never to return. There has been a smattering of name calling etc.

The main plan of AVOIDING the subject seems to be working quite well. I congratulate LifeWavers. Whether this was an edict from the highest level, or something each LifeWaver chose to do, it has been pretty effective.

Surely it can't be that LifeWavers have given up trying to convince newcomers to buy into their fantasy?

Where are all the new LifeWavers brimming with enthusiasm and claims of excellence? Come, join the fray. New insight would be welcome.

I miss people like Nanoman. So much conviction, so little evidence. Where is Nanoman MK II?

Is it all about LifeWavers who have given up because they have finally seen the light, or is it that they are so fabulously wealthy they have no need to defend their product?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 12:36 AM
Carter S said:

"Cranky Media Guy,

"Cranky, I was not serious. The whole time I was thinking, 'cranky's going to be so irratated'. But I figured you would know it was a joke. Since I wrote that I was just giving you crap. Sorry dude."

No prob. Stuff like that tends to roll off my back, no matter how it may look like I feel at the time.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 12:46 AM
Pushy said:

"Congrats - you passed the test EDHUK & CMG!!
I purposely used both words in the wrong context just to prove a point. You truly are digging deep to prove Lifewave wrong."

I have no idea what you're talking about here. We responded to YOUR words. Were we somehow supposed to know that you were using the words incorrectly on purpose?
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 02:23 AM
I find it strange that so many people find the concept of "GOD" believable and many also believe that humans are created in his image. When I ask for proof I'm told that I am supposed to have faith. Well now I have more faith that one day I will be able to fly then that God actually exists.

However, when I was sent the sample energy patches I didn't have time to read all the information and didn't really care to. I didn't even ask what they were made of. They sat on my desk for three days when finally I tried to get through a day on only 2 hrs sleep from the previous night. By lunchtime I just wanted to give up for the day, but I had to get my work done by a deadline. I decided to try the patches (thinking well surely these little bits of plastic can't harm me) and before I knew it it was 6:00pm and I was still working.

I still have no idea how they are supposed to work, having only now decided to look it up, but I decided to let my son try them for a game of basketball. He claims that he normally gets tight chested half way through a game, but on both occassions when he wore the patches he didn't feel tight chested at all. He doesn't claim that they make him perform better, just that he isn't as uncomfortable after playing. Now, at his request, I have ordered some patches.

It is possible that this is all a hoax, but if wearing these patches helps my 16 year old son breath better (even if it is only a placebo) than I think using them is no more ridiculous than praying to GOD for help.

I've only read about a third of the entries here, but not yet found one that proves that the patches don't work.

PS I'll let you know when I work out how to fly 😊
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 09:05 AM
Here we go again.

Able to fly,

When you finish reading the other two thirds of the posts, you will see how many others have posted the same thing you did. You will also learn personal anecdotal evidence is worthless for determining scientific validity.

Maybe you don't mind paying $89.95 plus S&H for a placebo but what will you do when the effect wears off? The patches don't claim to relieve chest pain during physical activity so your son's claims are most certainly the result of the placebo effect. Again, how long can that go on?

I'm not surprised you have not found a single post that proves the patches don't work. That's because the skeptics don't have to prove anything. It's up to the believers to prove it does since they are the ones making fantastic claims.

Lifewave does not claim to be a placebo. They claim to have developed a revolutionary new technology, using "nanotechnology", that really does give increased energy to the user. We strongly disagree. That's what's being debated here. If someone is really interested in a performance enhancing product, and not a placebo, reading this forum will give them the other side of the story.

P.S. Are you now a distributor too?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 11:01 AM
Able to fly

...but not to think!

However, when I was sent the sample energy patches I didn't have time to read all the information and didn't really care to.

You were "sent" some samples. By whom? You didn't read about them, you were too busy. How many other things do you take (have taken) without reading the instructions? Bet your doctor loves you!

Have you always been the kind of parent who experiments on their child, just to see if something works? Again, I bet your doctor loved you!

As Captain Al stated, "Here we go again".

The LifeWave Speak does rather shine through.

Good luck with your flying lessons. If you wait a few more weeks, David Schmidt will surely invent a "flying" patch.

?
human being
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 12:50 PM
I have refreshed on my grammar and punctuation.
Now I can have a good converstation about lifewave patches.
For one thing Carter, I don't have a thing for EDHUK. I don't even know who that is. Why would you even come on here to post something that has nothing to do with the forum.
I was only saying that EDHUK has a better argument than anyone else, so they should just give it up.

-Able to Fly:

Why would you give something to your child without reading its' contents. Just because you had a great exp. doesn't mean the same for your child.

***As a parent I would have to disagree with your parenting skills.***

Lifewave patches are starting to become a problem. Our young athletes are always trying to find some type of a body booster. It is sad. What ever happened to good ole excersice and practice?
Who knows, these patches could become the next ephedra type substance.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 05:39 PM
human being

Who knows, these patches could become the next ephedra type substance.

Wouldn't that require the patches to actually have active ingredients that pass into the body?

LifeWave has based their entire business on the patches being NON-TRANSDERMAL. They paid for a company to test the patches. LifeWave told them the patches contained glucose in the brown patch and glycerin in the white patch. The company chose the appropriate substance to cause a reaction and formation of a "white precipitate" then went on to demonstrate nothing came out of the patches.

A few points come to mind.

Was the test a genuine professional test? Were the results genuine? If so, and if the patches are manufactured in precisely the same way, nothing enters the body and it's all down to "messages" being sent to your cells saying "make energy".

What if the test was not genuine? What if substances DO pass through the skin into the body?

Now we would have a totally different ball game. It would be anyone's guess as to what these substances might be. It might also be the reason some people experience an effect. Of course, the FDA would now be most interested.

Just some thoughts in the abscence of the LifeWave proof of efficacy.

Personally, I still put my money on the patches being very expensive glucose and glycerin placebo patches sold on the internet through a scam MLM company by a businessman.

Anybody?

???????
Able to fly
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 07:28 PM
The person who sent me the patches is a friend. He sent them to me because he valued my honest opinion on whether they had any effect. That doesn't make him a distributor does it?

I am not a distributor, I'm simply prepared to purchase the patches.

My friend was not likely to send the patches to me if he considered them harmfull, and he assured me he was very sceptical and had read a great deal before purchasing them. When a friend sends a gift I don't normally go out and research it before using it. I had no reason to be fearful of them.

Also, I don't have to be a reasearch scientist to be a good parent, just as I don't have to be a nutritionist and study all the ingredients in what my children consume either. At some point, even as a parent, we simply TRUST. So it doesn't bother me if you are disappointed by my parenting skills, just as you probably wouldn't be disappointed if I accused you of being utterly ridiculous and clutching at straws.

As for chest pains ... the distributors of the patches apparently claim that they improve your breathing. My son was not aware of this claim yet he mentioned that he found he was not so tight chested (unfortunately mild asthma runs in my family). Does it really matter if I stick placebo patches on him rather than give him Ventolin? (provided that it works)

I thought this forum was a place for ALL sides to be expressed and not just the negative. I haven't claimed to have proof that they work scientifically, I admit that the effect may be placebo. However this is a website about HOAXES so isn't it therefore a requirement that you PROVE the patches are a hoax before you make such claims? So far all I have read are OPINIONS both for and against and I haven't read about any negative effects.

I don't know how they work or if they will continue to work, but they have worked for both my son and I. My opinion is that there is no reason not to try them unless you can't afford them or couldn't handle the idea that you tried something that turned out in the end to be a hoax. My ego can handle that, how about yours?

Finally, if a patch were able to make me fly would it matter if it only happened because of a placebo effect? While I'm flying I am getting what I pay for. But in answer to what happens when the effect wears off: I thought that would be obvious, I would stop buying them. That still wouldn't prove that they were a hoax, just that the effect doesn't last.
Also Human
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 08:20 PM
Human Being said:
"Lifewave patches are starting to become a problem. Our young athletes are always trying to find some type of a body booster. It is sad. What ever happened to good ole excersice and practice?"



Remember the saying "Necessity is the Mother of Invention". Well this is the New Millenium and the saying now is "Invention is the Mother of Need".

Today I need a Pentium M notebook with Intel Centrino and wireless broadband access to successfully run my business. Five years ago I only needed a Pentium 1 with dial up access.

We live in a very competitive world and anyone who plays sport is choosing to compete. Otherwise they would just be playing or exercising. Are you suggesting that it is sad that children are becoming competitive? I thought they always were.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 08:29 PM
Able to fly

You make some good points.

Perhaps when you get to read more about LifeWave, in particular how their distributors are trained in the sales approach, you will realize you have been given the line.

"I just wanted your opinion" and now you are a purchaser. Funny how that works.

My point, posted previously, is that I wouldn't be posting any comments here at all if David Schmidt and his scam placebo patch company would come clean. Offer the patches for sale as "Placebo Energy Patches".

They won't do that, I realize. This is a money game pure and simple. People get used in the process. Some people are genuine, some are not. I don't know, or need to know where you fall.

Your choice is to buy into the fantasy. The encouragement to get further involved will follow. You are now a number in the pyramid.

Previous posters have used the old "perhaps you can't afford them" "what are you afraid of?" "don't you ever try anything new?" approach. All rather boring and pointless.

If you feel comfortable adding your words of support to this scam, so be it. If innocent people take your words and buy the patches because of them you will have to take responsibility when the time comes.

Words from sceptics don't harm anyone. They don't cost $100 a month. They don't make a scam businessman very rich. They don't hold out false hope to genuine people looking for something in their lives.

Back at LifeWave HQ you are just a pawn in their money making racket. When it's all over they will move on. According to you, you won't mind finding out you've been scammed. Not all people will feel that way. Others will feel devastated, angry, with no way to get recompense.

You are absolutely correct. This forum is for all opinions positive and negative.

We are still eagerly awaiting the verifiable positive side of the argument. The ball is firmly in the LifeWave court.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
human being
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 | 11:43 PM
Also Human-
"We live in a very competitive world and anyone who plays sport is choosing to compete. Otherwise they would just be playing or exercising. Are you suggesting that it is sad that children are becoming competitive? I thought they always were"

Sure competition is great. I support competition. But our athletes are turning to things such as life patches(if it works) or popping pills to inhance their abilities. I, in my opinion, believe that excercise and practice should be the best solution. If they are competitive then they should have no trouble at all working hard for it.
I don't want to compare lifewave patches to popping pills, but are you saying that it's OK to do what ever it takes to win, such as taking steriods?

If lifewave patches are being used by athletes, then many athletes might not take practice or excercise seriously enough to even know how to be competitive. And that could lead to injuries.

The harder you work. The more competitive you are. I know from experience.
laarson
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 12:57 AM
Hi everyone!! (Sorry for my grammar. I'm really bad in it)
I have a question: is there any procedure now against lifewave badass company? I know they had one in 1996 and later in 1999.
Also Human
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:05 AM
human being
"I don't want to compare lifewave patches to popping pills, but are you saying that it's OK to do what ever it takes to win, such as taking steriods?"

No I am saying it is OK to do whatever it takes to win if it causes no harm. I'm sitting back and waiting to find out if this is or isn't a hoax. But I seriously think it would be FANTASTIC if we could all stick on some harmless little patches and feel more energetic as a result. I hope it isn't a hoax.

EDHUK
"I wouldn't be posting any comments here at all if David Schmidt and his scam placebo patch company would come clean. Offer the patches for sale as "Placebo Energy Patches"."

I didn't know that there was any evidence that they are "Placebo". Has a study been done to prove this? If so could you please save me the trouble of reading through 58 pages of posts and tell me what the study was and what were the results. I look forward to your response and thank you in advance.
human being
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:14 AM
Sure that would be great. But what kind of satisfaction would you get out of winning. It surely wasn't your energy, was it?
human being
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:17 AM
But to get through the day with extra energy would be wonderful!! :ahhh:
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:20 AM
Able to fly said:

"However this is a website about HOAXES so isn't it therefore a requirement that you PROVE the patches are a hoax before you make such claims?"

Nope. It is incumbent upon the LifeWave supporters to PROVE that the little adhesive plastic patches they sell and/or support are able to defy everything we know about science and anatomy.

"So far all I have read are OPINIONS both for and against and I haven't read about any negative effects."

How about the "negative effect" of taking your money for something that doesn't do what it's advertised as doing? No one here is claiming that the patches make you break out in hives or anything like that. What we think is that they don't do anything (except that which happens via the placebo effect). We think they're exactly as effective as taping Lego bricks to your arms.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:33 AM
EDHUK, so what if I have been "given the line". I really couldn't care less. But if my friend just wanted to get some money out of me he could have saved us all the trouble and said "could you spare $100.00" and I probably would have given it to him. Why are you such a pessimist? Are you so sure that this is a hoax? Are you prepared to bet your reputation (real not internet) and money on it? It's easy for people to come on the internet and accuse someone of wrongdoings. For all I know you could be the person who owns the Red Bull Energy Drink Company worried about a little bit of competition. Where is the evidence that the energy patches are a hoax? I'd like to point out that David Schmidt and the Lifewave MLM Scheme should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. Or isn't that the case where you are from?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:40 AM
Able to fly said:

"I'd like to point out that David Schmidt and the Lifewave MLM Scheme should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. Or isn't that the case where you are from?"

That would be true if this was a court of law. It isn't. What we are discussing here is whether or not the claims made for the little adhesive plastic patches are true or not.

You may have heard the expression, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." That's what we're saying. If you believe that the LifeWave patches do what Schmidt says they do, PROVE IT UNDER CONTROLLED CONDITIONS. If you can't, there is simply no reason for anyone to believe the claims made for them.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 01:52 AM
Cranky Media Guy said
"Nope. It is incumbent upon the LifeWave supporters to PROVE that the little adhesive plastic patches they sell and/or support are able to defy everything we know about science and anatomy."

How about you and I get together and take on all the Priests and Church Ministers in the world and insist that it is "incumbent" that they PROVE there is a God before they take people's donations and tithe? When we finish with Christianity we can then take on other religions.

If you wouldn't mind getting the ball rolling I'll take over when you are half way through 😊

Ah! Imagine a world were people are afraid to support any concepts if they unable to scientifically PROVE them. No more sheep to be manipulated, just a world full of leaders and no followers. What a wonderful world it would be!
Anon
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 02:26 AM
Bottom Line.....

IF these patches WERE what they claimed they were, we HONESTLY would be seeing these on every Walmart/Zellers/K-mart/GNC/ETC shelf. We would see and hear stories on the news about it. (we did about creatine, about ephedrine)

Im tired of hearing the excuse to "why dont they sell it at retail stores"

Man, if these patches were legit, it would be the biggest buzz in sports and sports medicine. I asked at various supplement stores in Vancouver BC, and no one had even heard of the stuff.

Comparing religion to patches is the funniest post I have read on this board, I DID get a good laugh out of that. But good luck marketing a product on that belief system. IT's bad enough they go as far even saying it works on "some ancient magnetic philosophy"

Guys on the board, I realy think many of you are wasting your time trying to disprove the Lifewave hardcore, they are too headstrong to accept the fact it's a laughable scam. I suggest you go back to your sane lives and spend time enjoying stuff rather then watching miserable people hoping for miracles on a energy/monetary level!
laarson
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 02:59 AM
Release: April 15, 1999

Home Shopping Network to Pay $1.1 Million Civil Penalty;
Agreement Settles Charges HSN Violated FTC Order To Substantiate Ad Claims

Home Shopping Network (HSN), the TV retailer that reaches more than 70 million households, has agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that it aired advertisements for a variety of skin care, weight-loss, and PMS/menopause products containing claims it could not substantiate, in violation of a 1996 FTC order. Home Shopping Network, Inc., and its subsidiary, Home Shopping Club, L.P., will pay a $1.1 million civil penalty to settle the charges, and will be ordered not to make ad claims it cannot substantiate.

In March, 1995, the Commission issued a complaint charging HSN and two subsidiaries, Lifeway Health Products, Inc., and Home Shopping Club, Inc., with violating federal laws by making claims they could not substantiate for four Lifeway-brand therapeutic products, including a vitamin spray to prevent colds and a stop-smoking spray. On September 26, 1996, the defendants agreed to settle the FTC charges and were bound by an order that required that they have "competent and reliable scientific evidence" to support advertising claims for any product that they claimed could "cure, treat, or prevent any disease, or have any effect on the structure or function of the human body."

In the complaint announced today, the FTC alleges HSN aired ad claims for skin care, weight-loss and PMS/menopause products from 1996 through 1998 that were unsubstantiated, and violated the FTC order. For example, the complaint alleges that claims that skin care products could "clear anyone's acne within several months," and could "clear cystic acne and razor bumps on men's skin," were unsubstantiated. So were claims that users of one weight-loss product would lose between 30 and 60 pounds and that users of another would maintain their weight loss. Claims that a supplement advertised to treat premenstrual syndrome and menopause provided "all the benefits of prescription estrogen replacement drugs," were also unsubstantiated, the FTC alleged.

Violations of FTC orders carry a penalty not to exceed $11,000 per violation.

The FTC has asked the court to approve the $1.1 million settlement and to enjoin HSN and Home Shopping Club, which produces infomercials for HSN, from any future violations of the 1996 Commission order.

The complaint was filed at the FTC's request by the Department of Justice in U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida, in Jacksonville, this morning. The Commission vote to refer the complaint and proposed consent to DOJ for filing was 4-0.

In a separate statement, Federal Trade Commissioner Sheila F. Anthony expressed concern about the size of the civil penalty given the conduct alleged in the complaint. "I find the $1.1 million civil penalty amount to be barely adequate," Anthony said. "Only two years later, HSN is again before us, and is again facing allegations that it has made multiple unsubstantiated product efficacy claims. Indeed, these allegations give me reason to question whether HSN took its obligations under the 1996 order seriously." While applauding FTC staff's diligence in monitoring HSN's compliance with the 1996 order, Anthony noted that a larger civil penalty in this matter may have been warranted to deter future unsubstantiated claims by HSN and other advertisers. "Civil penalties and other remedial impositions cannot be a mere cost of doing business," Anthony stated. "If false claims are profitable even in the wake of penalties, advertisers will continue to make such claims."

Nothing changed since then.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 03:07 AM
Dear Anon

I was tempted to sit down and write a long list of MLM companies that you may not have heard of that happen to be "legit", but now I am focusing my energy starting up the GOD must be a Hoax campaign.

So I will keep it simple. Can you buy Amway cleaning products in Walmart/Zellers/K-mart/GNC/ETC? Do Amway cleaning products work?

I don't like MLM and the cult followings that they sometimes encourage but I still have a pantry full of Tupperware and a drawer full of Nutri-Metics. No I am not an Amway, Nutri-Metics or Tupperware distrubutor. I even decorated my tree with Avon Christmas lights last year. You see there is one benefit to me as a consumer in purchasing from MLM companies that I don't get from department or most specialty stores. The sales people come to me.


PS I even shop on ebay, and I can't tell you how many times people have tried to warn me against trusting that system. Especially the retailers when I try to compare prices.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 03:25 AM
laarson said:
"For example, the complaint alleges that claims that skin care products could "clear anyone's acne within several months," and could "clear cystic acne and razor bumps on men's skin," were unsubstantiated. So were claims that users of one weight-loss product would lose between 30 and 60 pounds and that users of another would maintain their weight loss. Claims that a supplement advertised to treat premenstrual syndrome and menopause provided "all the benefits of prescription estrogen replacement drugs," were also unsubstantiated, the FTC alleged."



As far as I am aware the claims from Lifewave are:
"Over 85% of the individuals that use the Lifewave patches experience improvements...."

"Lifewave has been clinically tested at major universities. Double blind placebo controlled studies prove that Lifewave gives you increased energy and stamina in the first use."

If these claims are false then why haven't they been charged.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 04:34 AM
Hey Cranky Media Guy, I only just discovered the "Prove God Exists and Get $1,000,000" forum and there you were. I guess you have already got the ball rolling after all. Don't forget to let me know when its my turn to take over and good luck.
:cheese:
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 08:47 AM
"Ah! Imagine a world were people are afraid to support any concepts if they unable to scientifically PROVE them. No more sheep to be manipulated, just a world full of leaders and no followers. What a wonderful world it would be!

Congratulations! You are now well on your way to understanding the scientific method!
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 09:45 AM
Don't you hate it when you're not paying attention to where you're going and you step right in a huge, steaming pile of science? Talk about embarassing.
Joe
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 11:29 AM
Weren't the studies at the major universities proven false by the universities telling Lifewave to stop or legal action will be taken?
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 12:35 PM
Able to fly

"Lifewave has been clinically tested at major universities. Double blind placebo controlled studies prove that Lifewave gives you increased energy and stamina in the first use."

If these claims are false then why haven't they been charged.

Your statement lets us know you have not read every page of this forum.

In the earlier days of LifeWave MKIII they boldly posted the names of the institutions on their websites. Troy University and Morehouse College. Both Troy and Morehouse issued cease and desist orders to LifeWave and they are no longer able to use their names. Today you will see something like "...double blind studies at major southern institutions."

It's great to see that since may last post many more people have entered the forum with their opinions. Through discourse we can only hope the truth will eventually be revealed.

I was amused to read that I am now possibly the owner of RED BULL. WOW, I'm rich! I'll just put that one along with the notions that I work for major sports retailers.

The world is full of commerce. I'n not sure how many companies pay someone to post on a website discussing scams?

As I have stated before:
Is it reasonable to think that a man who took a business degree was spotted by mysterious nameless individuals who told him to "invent" a method to "talk" to body cells? The significance of the invention being so overwhelming that any such inventor would be heralded as one of the greatest scientists of all time and acknowledged by scientists around the globe through the replication of his experiments.

Is it reasonable to think that such a businessman would team up with a motley crew of suspects to form a Multi Level Marketing company...version one...version two...version three, in order to bring the product to the masses?

Is it reasonable to think all this would be accomplished without any form of verifiable testing for efficacy and lack of unwanted side effects?

If you think it is reasonable, then it is your right to purchase the product and good luck to you.

For those who do not think it reasonable, some move on and some post here. People like WWSN1 and Cranky Media Guy have been following scams for a long time. They see the patterns of history.

Anon

Guys on the board, I realy think many of you are wasting your time trying to disprove the Lifewave hardcore, they are too headstrong to accept the fact it's a laughable scam. I suggest you go back to your sane lives and spend time enjoying stuff rather then watching miserable people hoping for miracles on a energy/monetary level!

I don't think sceptics ever hope to change the mind of a LifeWaver, I certainly don't. The curious can read and compare. For and against. Reasonable and illogical. Nothing to gain v/s everything to gain.

Is it , once again, all about LifeWave distributors posting as innocent newcomers to attempt to "sell" the product through the back door method?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
laarson
Member
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 12:37 PM
There were no studies becasuse there is no technology for the scientific tests. Because there is no nano technology. Anything else is not sufficient enough. This company is evil 😊
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 02:09 PM
Able to fly said:

"How about you and I get together and take on all the Priests and Church Ministers in the world and insist that it is "incumbent" that they PROVE there is a God before they take people's donations and tithe? When we finish with Christianity we can then take on other religions."

Hey, sounds good to me! You might want to take a look at some of the other threads on this forum. I've been debating believers on at least two of them for some time now. In fact, I've been making the exact point you made: It is incumbent on those who make an assertion of the existence of something to PROVE that it exists. No one has to prove a negative.

Even though this is an obvious point and I've made it repeatedly, I am challenged over and over again to prove that God DOESN'T exist.

OK, you've established that you're not a dumb guy. Now, let's see if you get how this all applies to the claims made for LifeWave.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 02:13 PM
Joe said:

"Weren't the studies at the major universities proven false by the universities telling Lifewave to stop or legal action will be taken?"

Well, I know for sure that Morehouse U. disavowed their supposed "endorsement." When I read about that here, I informed James Randi. He checked it out and reported on it on his website.

You really have to ask yourself if these things do what they are advertised as doing, why would the makers have to fake endorsements?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 02:18 PM
Able to fly said:

"Hey Cranky Media Guy, I only just discovered the "Prove God Exists and Get $1,000,000" forum and there you were. I guess you have already got the ball rolling after all. Don't forget to let me know when its my turn to take over and good luck."

Yeah, I have a tendency to take on the most difficult arguments, don't I? Anyway, jump right in, my friend! The pool's big enough for all of us.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 02:22 PM
Able to fly said:

"If these claims are false then why haven't they been charged."

It's not unusual for the government to be VERY slow moving to act on things like this. It doesn't seem to be a high priority, unfortunately.

As for the claims you talked about which have been dealt with by the government, do you know how long it may have taken for the Feds to get around to them? I wouldn't be surprised to find that it took many months.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 03:29 PM
Hey Cranky Media Guy you are right, I am not a "dumb guy" I am a smart girl. However the truth is that I don't feel everything has to be proved by scientific research (even though the father of my children is a research scientist).

Scientific research is not always about SEEKING THE TRUTH but more likely SEEKING THE FUNDING, which would explain to me why a university is not likely to endorse a product unless they have something to gain.

I am happy to accept proof that lifewave works by wearing the patches and seeing if I feel more energetic. I realise that it is not equal to a controlled experiment, but I trust myself to be a good enough judge of what I should spend my money on.

When I came to this forum and found over 50 pages of posts I thought that someone must have proved that the patches were a hoax. However all I have found on here are suspicions and often insults, not just directed at David Schmidt, but at anyone who DARES to suggest that the patches work.

I don't believe everything in life requires proof. I may not believe in God but I do believe in ghosts. I can't prove they exist but I know I have encountered one particular ghost at least twice now. I can rationalise my belief by arguing that if all energy is constant, then a ghost may simply be the energy of a human that has not been reassigned to a new form yet. However I can't imagine what kind of scientific research would be required to prove this.

The testimonials of so many who claim to benefit from wearing the patches may not be adequate for you to believe the patches work. However it should suggest that it is more likely that they do work than that they don't. The claims may appear to be extraordinary, but not as extraordinary as some claims that mankind have come to just accept without proof.

I take the stand that unless something is harming someone it is not my place to object to it.

Man can't prove that God exists, but man also can't prove that God doesn't exist. So when faced with a threat, even the most sceptical people will resort to praying. It can't hurt now can it? ...... well neither will the patches.
Able to fly
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 | 04:12 PM
EDHUK

It is obvious that demonstrating how ridiculous you are by giving you the same (ie suggesting you may own Red Bull) is too subtle for you to comprehend. Let me spell it out for you.

Your comments:
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