The Museum of Hoaxes
LifeWave Energy Patches
Posted By:
Fawkes
Feb 24, 2005
 Now you can get more energy from a patch! I especially like the way that
they "believe" that it works. It is also based on years of research from
many fields. While the research may be valid, I'm not sure that their
results were intended to be used with a "patent pending blend of water,
oxygen, amino acids and organics applied to a polyester fabric and sealed
within a polymer shell".

http://www.contactplus.com/lifewave.htm

We can finally have our super-soldiers now!
Category: Health; Replies: 5918

Comments
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Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 | 11:52 AM
Aina,

You wrote, "Yes, it might be placebo even if he didn't believe they would work, and I shall do a placebo test on him. I just have to find something to put on his back that feels the same way when I attach it. Maybe there are round, plastic patches of some kind at the pharmacy."

Your concession that it might be the placebo effect tells me that you are trying to dispassionately appraise what is going on.

Lifewave claims that the patches work through clothing, and I personally witnessed David Schmidt supposedly reducing people's pain both drastically (60-80% claimed reduction in pain level) and immediately (within about 15-30 seconds) by sticking the patches on over people's blue jeans. That was David Schmidt personally hawking his patches at the Curves gym in Newbury Park, California that I reported on this forum a couple of years or so ago.

So you don't have to stick the patches directly on your son's back, and you don't have to get something that is extremely close to a Lifewave patch in feel. Just make something similar and put it in an outer opaque envelope and tape it to your son's back, with the Lifewave patches in the same envelopes, and see which of those has what effects on your son.

If your son feels basically the same effects with placebo patches as with real Lifewave patches, you'll know that you never have to buy expensive Lifewave patches again - just give him fake patches from now on and get the same effect but save yourself a ton of money.

You could run a similar test using used Lifewave patches and relatively new Lifewave patches. If your son can't tell the difference, you know that you never have to buy expensive new Lifewave patches for him again because used ones work just as well. Again, you'll save yourself a ton of money.

You should also do it double blind. Have someone set up the patches/envelopes so that YOU don't know which is which either when you put the patches on your son. That way your knowledge/beliefs can't influence your son's perceptions or any recording of the results.

Please let us know the results. In the several years that I have been posting here, no Lifewave believer has ever, ever taken up that challenge and reported the results. That's why I concluded long ago that, deep in their heart of hearts, Lifewave believers know that everything that David Bullschmidt says is a giant steaming pile. They do not want to be confronted with the undeniable truth staring them straight in the face, especially not the distributors.

I truly hope you will be the exception who really wants to know the truth, and who will take the time and effort to root out the truth and to post it. I hope you will be the first.

And I wish the best to you and your son.
WWSN
Member
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 | 12:16 PM
This all reminds me of my rewriting of "The Emperor's New Clothes" as:

<b><a href="http://worldwidescam.info/emppatch.htm" target="_blank">The Emperor's New Patches</a></b>

Whatever the product is - a new smartphone, a new restaurant, a late night cable TV weight loss apparatus, a copper bracelet, a politician, or a Lifewave patch - once we make an emotional and/or financial investment in the product, we do NOT want to admit we may have been scammed, fooled or misled.

If others in our tribe are also convinced and invested in the choice we made, it's even harder to admit to having been wrong.

Enlightened people - and this is the true appeal of genuine New Age thinking and philosophy - welcome the greater awareness and higher consciousness that comes from making mistakes, recognizing them as such, and learning and growing from that experience.

You should recognize the "Emperor" in this story as Lifewave promoter and affiliate Ronnie "Mr. Universe" Coleman.

Bob
WWSN
Pat
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 09:00 AM
Aina,
I don't think it is worth losing your sons trust in you by conducting a test on him without his knowledge just to prove a point. He will find out. He obviously trusts you. Don't jeopardise that.

If you want to discuss this whole issue with him and tell him what you have learned and then put him through the test with his permission, he will have much more respect for you and for what you are doing and how much you want to help him.

What will come after the test? He might decide the patches work for him even though you know the patches have no real powers to heal. You might decide he should include more magnesium in his diet to relax his muscles. Or you might just realise that we all have some inexplicable pain that nothing will get rid of and learn to live with it.

Whatever the outcome don't risk jeopardising your relationship with your son for the likes of David Schmidt. All Schmidt is doing is looking after himself and the size of his bank account...
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 09:44 AM
Aina, sure let your son know what you're doing. You'll probably need to do so because you're going to ask your son to tell you, with each patch, to what extent his pain went away when you applied the patch.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 05:19 PM
Aina,
I agree with Pat that it's important to keep your son's trust in you. However, if you explain why you would like to put the patches to the test he may well be interested in giving it a try.

There have been big developments in the world of placebos over recent years. In 2005 a major study demonstrated that our brains are capable of making painkillers through the use of a placebo.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article558459.ece

This study used PET scans to show changes in the brain in real time.

More recently research has shown that we don't even have to believe in a placebo for it to work.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect-patients-sham-drug

Good luck with you home made "experiment". If you are truly as genuine as you seem, the results may well be of interest to you. Of course, they won't prove anything one way or the other to the official scientific community but, after all, you are doing this to find out for yourself the truth about this scam.

Best wishes,
Dave
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 05:49 PM
essai
Aina
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 05:59 PM
So many comments... I shall try to read and comment all of you, bur first:
"Aina:

Off subject, but I would like to ask if it is true that the max penal sentence in Norway is 21 years as I think I read somewhere. If so, is that per charge, per "incident", or what? I guess what I am asking is can this guy possibly be in a position where he has a 21 year limit on any potential jail sentence for this wholesale and wanton slaughter?

It's strange to think that he could be out in his early 50's, free to potentially repeat what he did already, however likely or unlikely that may seem at this point.

Thanks....."

Yes, the maximum sentence for murder is 21 years. One prison year is 9 months. If this wasn't such a beastly mass murder, he would probably get 11 years or something and get out because of good behavious after six or something.
In this case, however, he might get 30 years and then (Excuse me while I look up google translate for a second)... 15 years custody (?), and then 7 years custody and so on for his entire life. We do that in extreme cases.

He might also be declared inzane, wich is not at good thing, because then he can't be imprisoned, but will be the responsability of the psychiatric medical care (I don't know the correct name for it in english). Then it will be up to them to evaluate and decide when he is well enough to be let out in the society again... He seems inzane, but I do hope he will get the maximum sentence plus the custody. We can't have people like that running lose.
Aina
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 06:25 PM
Joel, I shall take you up on the placebo test, and also have someone assist me in a double blind.
I am not sure if I shall tell my son about it - I will have to for the double blind I guess - because if it turns out to be just placebo, i don't know if I want him to know. They won't help him after that, and he will have to live with his back pain again. I would like him to live pain free in blissfull ignorance. For his sake. Not mine. Not Mr. Schmidt either for that matter.
As I've said earlier, he's 26. He doesn't need to have trust in me. He is a grown man with a beard and piercings 😉
He didn't believe they would help in the first place. Thats why he asked me to put them on his achilles. A quite new pain. I wasn't sure if I thought they worked, and that was what we were talking about at the time.
When he found out the pain in the achilles disappeared, thats when he asked to put them on his cronich back pain. We were both surprised when that too disappeared. We just steared at each other. Giggling actually.

I don't think he lacks (?) magnesium or anything else for that matter. He was tested for everything a year ago, and came out better than his doctor. He is very concious about what he eats, he is at the gym three times a week (he is also my personal trainer)he don't take any medications as I told you, he drinks only water and green tea, he takes multi vitamins and Omega3 daily. He is a real guru when it comes to health. He reads everything and knows everything.

The back really bothers him, and these patches has eliminated that, no matter who conducted the tests for the company or if Schmidt don't understand about nano technology.

But I shall do the placebo test on him, and I shal get back to you.
If he turns out to get relief from the patches and nothing from the placebo, I don't expect any of you to aknowledge that as proof any way - because the test was conducted by me, a distributor 😉 Right?

But I'll do it for you. And let me say: I have never been one to lie to my self, so if they turn out placebo, I will let you know. I'm not going to distribute products I know for a fact are rubbish. I have integrity. (I'm also afraid people will come find me if I trick them )

Well. It's 2.20 am here. I should be in bed.
C U all later 😊

One more thing: BOB. About this: "once we make an emotional and/or financial investment in the product, we do NOT want to admit we may have been scammed, fooled or misled."

I was skeptic enough to order just a small starter pack because I wanted to try them out before I decided to present them to others. And this is my testing period. I also told my sponsor that. We are both testing the products at this point, so the "don't want to admit"-part dont apply to us.
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 06:27 PM
Bonjour AINA,

J'ai vu ton intention d'essayer un placebo.
Pourquoi pas, moi aussi, je me suis amus
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 06:29 PM
Donc, ne donne pas de la bonne nourriture aux cochons, est-il
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 06:35 PM
Par contre, pour les essais, attention aux r
Fred
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 07:10 PM
Umm, you can't really do a double blind on one test subject, thats not how it works.
Fred
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 07:31 PM
That is to say: while the Norway experiment is interesting, a genuine double blind investigation requires a significant study sample size.
Joel
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 07:48 PM
Fred, Aina's test won't be very scientific, and because she's anonymous the results won't carry credible weight: For all anybody knows she could be David Schmidt or me writing under a pseudonym, and/or she could simply fabricate the results desired as Lifewave's testing laboratories do.

However, her test would still be double blind if her son who is the test subject does not know which is the real patch and which is the placebo patch ("single blind"), nor does she who is the person administering the test ("double blind").

In this case, instead of having multiple subjects with each subject receiving <i>only and either</i> the real or the placebo treatment (as is more commonly done), we'd have a single test subject receiving both the real and the placebo treatments <i>in seriatum</i>, and recording the results before trying the next numbered patch. But it would still be double blind.

If done with just a little bit of care and with a large enough sample size (number of patches, tested in a randomized order), and done sincerely and truthfully, I believe that the results will be a pretty accurate indicator of whether a supposedly fast-acting pain treatment is any more effective than a placebo. I suppose other people could reasonably disagree. At the very least, if truthful, the results should be more reliable than anything that comes out of David Bullshmidt's mouth.
Pat
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 08:07 PM
Hard to believe in this day and age someone wants/needs to test one placebo against another placebo to see which one is more of a placebo than the other placebo.....
Fred
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 | 10:54 PM
Joel your point is well taken, but every double blind study of medical efficacy uses multiple subjects. (Not just "more commonly") I can accept that by strict definintion the Norway experiment qualifies as double blind. However, if you consider the Nordic's original posts, the "Norway experiment" of a mom on her son is going to be a long, long ways away from the science that is implied by a "double blind" study. That was the point of my post.
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 03:47 AM
Fred, I do this test for ME. Not for science.
If it turns out that he notices a difference in IceWave, new or used, or maybe a silent night will do the trick, then I will know it's placebo OR that all the patches are the same. Therefor I shall also bring into the test other substitutes for the patches.
If he knows which is which, that's good enough for me, regardles of how YOU feel about it. Ok?

I will try this without him knowing to start with, because I have a feeling that he will start trying the minute he knows, and that could probably jepordize (??) the whole thing.

Pat: You may be convinced it's just placebo, but I'm not. You have read how they instantly worked on him despite his skepticism. Why should I take your word for solid gold any more than you should take mine that way? You have an opinion, thats all.
Pat
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 05:31 AM
Aina, I do have an opinion on what these patches are, nothing more than a plastic coated sugar sandwich with a strong glue backing. I don't believe any combination of those 3 ingredients can cause pain reduction but I do believe they can create the placebo effect which also happened to me when I tried them.

Lifewave quite openly explain to any one who bothers to read their information that there is nothing in their product other than sugar but it is sealed in plastic so can't harm you???
I believe Lifewave, why don't you???

You seem to have your own ideas of what the patches are and how they work. That is just so ludicrous to me and shows you have a deep vanity for your own opinion.

It did upset me when you said "I can't be bothered" when I suggested you do some reading or a bit of research for yourself if you don't believe what the fair and reasonable people on this forum have told you. Why are you actually commenting on this forum if you already think this product has some healing powers? That is simply called 'preaching to the converted'.

You seem quite happy to let every one else on this forum do all the work for you here but you feel qualified enough to dismiss what they have said or what they have presented to you for your benefit. You seem to find enough time to post an post and post.
How about you find equal time to read and read and read and then come back and present your opinion?

You want answers and you want them now but when the truth is presented to you on a silver platter you still choose to ignore it.

Sorry if I sound angry but I am having another 'moment'!!!!
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 05:38 AM
Aina,

"If he turns out to get relief from the patches and nothing from the placebo, I don't expect any of you to aknowledge that as proof any way - because the test was conducted by me, a distributor Right?"

As I mentioned in my last post, any "experiment" you conduct would be for personal reasons only. It is not that I would not believe you if you said only the LifeWave patches worked and the placebos did nothing. Science takes anecdotal evidence and puts it to the test under properly controlled conditions.

LifeWave WAS going to do the James Randi $Million Dollar Challenge but backed out at the last minute. They gave various excuses as to why they backed out.

If they were able to show that only the LifeWave patches did something, they would have been given 1 Million dollars. Has to make you wonder why they wouldn't want an easy Million bucks, right?
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 06:04 AM
Dear, Pat, have you read what I write?
I say this is a test period for me. I need to experience for my self whether the patches actually work or not. I am not about to let you or anyone else tell me they don't work.
Yes, they are sugar, amino acids and what else. They do not penetrate the skin. They supposedly interfare with the electro magnetic fields of the body. This is something I know too little about to just dismiss. I never dismiss things I don't have knowledge about. That would really make me look stupid.

As I also say, they DO work on my son, whether it's placebo or not. His back pain does go away, no matter the reason. That is why I need to test this further. Why on earth should I dismiss them as long as my sons pack pain vanishes like dew in the sun?
And again: whats the harm in using them if it is placebo? Would you rather he was in pain?

I shall read the links on placebo that was posted last night. I find it really interesting.
Pat, I am a curious person, an investigator by nature, I read and learn. The reason I don't want to go through 300 pages of posts that has been posted over the period of several years, is as I said earlier on, the probability that a lot of those posts are by people who really don't know anything about anything and has jumped the horse only for the ride. I see them all the time in norwegian forums, they pop out of the wood work in any type discussion. Thats why I don't bother to read all those posts. Links to real literature, fine, but not 300 pages of posts from people with opinions.

EDHUK; if they turned down James Randi it was probably because they were warned about him. He is so biased in his "don't believe in anything", he is not a scientist, he dropped out of high school and has been a magican ever since. He also manipulates and decieves (?) to fit his own world view of things. He has som points in his contract that no one should accept. Like something about any results, photos etc are JREF's belonging after the tests and they can use it however they like. I don't remember the correct phrasing, but I have read it. Long time ago.

I would not trust that man in any way, and I don't understand why all skeptics think so highly of him. Do some research 😉
Pat
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 06:11 AM
Dave, I just know she is going to convert what you have just said in to Lifewave are obviously not greedy. Crap. This lady is worse than the long winded French man but at least he is not lazy. He does get a good typing workout! Thank heavens I don't speak/read French and from now on I don't speak/read Aina.

I really think they are both 'dyed in the wool' Lifewavers sent to corrupt this forum but be aware, I am currently, seriously having a 'moment' 😊
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 06:24 AM
Am I misunderstanding something here?
"To investigate the limits of placebo, Prof Ted Kaptchuk of Harvard Medical School's Osher Research Center divided 80 patients suffering from irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) into two groups: one received no treatment and the other was given dummy pills to take twice a day. The second group was told by the doctors that they would be taking "placebo pills made of an inert substance, like sugar pills, that have been shown in clinical studies to produce significant improvement in IBS-symptoms through mind-body self-healing processes"."

This if from this article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect-patients-sham-drug

Doesn't this say that these persons were told that these placebo pills had been shown in clinical studies to produce significant improvement i IBS-symptoms through mind-body self-healing processes?
So the patients are told that the pills have shown to produce an effect in the self-healing processes... significant, even.
Isn't that telling them that these ARE placebos, but they have indeed shown to improve the symptoms.
I think this test would be more worth if the control group also got placebos, but without the message: These are placebos but have shown to have an effect on the self-healing process. That way you would have two groups on placebo, one that didn't belive it had any effects what so ever, no mentioning of the self healing prosess or anything.
Or something like that. The scientists in this test created a belief in the test group that the pills would work, even as placebos.

I also wonder: I read that some doctors indeed do prescribe (?) placebos for their patients. Do this patients pay less for the consultations or the "meds"? Just asking. They are in fact getting hussled, aren't they?
Pat
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 07:02 AM
Was it AmosMoses who said something along the lines of 'if it looks like horse shit, smells like horse shit and came flying steaming out of a horses bum, why would you need to taste it to confirm it is horseshit?" It is still horse shit!!!!!
Lifewave is selling horse shit supplied by Haltiwangers sister/inlaw? no doubt, albeit sealed in plastic. Not sure how any one can possibly expect sugar to react with the bodies electro magnetics! Sorry for the swearing but like Humpty Dumpty, I was pushed 😊
Am I in crazy land? Beam me up Scotty!
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 07:13 AM
Dear Pat... whats with the "Lifewave are not greedy"?
And the "I really think they are both 'dyed in the wool' Lifewavers sent to corrupt this forum"?

In Norway we have something called "hersketeknikk" - directly translated that means ruling technique, and I see your two lates posts as that. You rule by ridicule and sarkasm. Not a good debate technique.
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 07:15 AM
Or maybe you are so angry because you your self believed in the patches at one point, and actually thought them to work?
I don't know where you're coming from, but it surely isn't mature debate techniques you're showing.
Pat
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 08:12 AM
I am quite sure my debate technique is flawed. I didn't study debating in school sorry. I just tell it like I see it. I am too honest for you?

My real interest is in the arena of old age and death. Depessing I know for a lot of people but somebody has to do it 😊

I don't actually need good debate techniques to know horse shit when I see it. You maybe do? Good technique does not remove the fact this product is horse shit.

I tried it (patches) and my brain gave me a little shot of pain killers, endorphin's, whatever but beyond that I am not going to be ripped off any further financially when I know all I have to do is think positively. I could waste copious amounts of money by sending it all off to Schmidt in the US but what would that achieve? The damage to my body would still be damage! Does that make me a jealous person? Does that make me envious of others who can afford to buy this horseshit? No.
I feel sorry for them for being scammed!
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 09:56 AM
Aina and Pat, I would respectfully ask that you try to avoid making personal attacks on each other. The more space is spent in personal attacks against each other, the less useful this forum becomes for people who are seeking information, education, and informed opinions about the patches.
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 10:25 AM
Aina, you asked, "Am I misunderstanding something here?" No, you are not misunderstanding something. That is one of the remarkable aspects of the placebo effect that real science has now discovered - that it works to a significant extent even when people are told essentially that they are being given a placebo.

You wrote, "They supposedly interfare with the electro magnetic fields of the body. This is something I know too little about to just dismiss. I never dismiss things I don't have knowledge about."

I do know something about that. I am an electrical engineer and now a patent attorney. It's a joke. Read David Schmidt's provisional patent application for yourself. You will see in black and white that he admits in that document that he <i>made up</i> his theory that the body acts as a giant thermocouple ("Seebeck effect"), that he <i>made up</i> his theory that the Seebeck effect creates a human "thermomagnetic field," that he <i>made up</i> his theory that sugar and glycerin molecules will bend that thermomagnetic field to the left or to the right, that he <i>made up</i> his theory that the bent magnetic fields then suck energy into the human body from the universe and create a swirling energy vortex, and that he <i>made up</i> his theory that the energy sucked into the body rearranges the molecules in people's cells and takes away their pain, gives them more strength and energy, etc., and now cures cancer and autism and AIDS and heart attacks and acne and everything else, all without doing any harm to the body.

All of that comes from a guy who does not have a science degree, but nevertheless claims in that document to be "Dr. David Schmidt." So the stuff about the patches interfering with a human electromagnetic field is not just a figment of Schmidt's imagination, it's layer upon layer of figments of vivid and wild imagination by a guy who undeniably is not what he claims to be.

Also, take that document to anybody with a scientific degree and training (an electrical engineer, a college physics or biology instructor, a doctor, etc.) and see if they don't fall out of their chairs laughing when you ask them if they think the "science" behind the patches is plausible.

And do run the placebo vs. Lifewave patch tests and let us know the results.
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 10:56 AM
Pat, so you're saying you can actually just think positive thoughts to make your pains go away? That's great. I have tried that, but can't do it. Good for you though 😊

Joel, what I reacted to in the article was that it said that the test persons were told to expect an effect from the placebos. "This is sugar, but they have shown significant effect...." See, my point?
That does not prove that placebo works without the person believing it will, even though I read one person saying after the test that since he knew it was placebo he didn't expect it to work.
A test to show whether placebo works without the group believing in it, should be conducted differently. They should not have been told to expect anything. Don't you agree?
Aina
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 10:58 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2011/feb/21/religion-placebo-effect-homeoeopathy

This guy obviously has noticed the same thing.
Razela
in Chicago, IL
 Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 12:17 PM
Aina,

Those are basically the same problems I had with that placebo study. They basically told the people getting placebo that even though it was placebo, that placebos were thought to have significant healing properties.

The study would have been more valid if they gave some people nothing, some people placebo who were told that placebo's could decrease pain, and some given placebo who were told that it was inert and likely wouldn't do anything. In my opinion, this study is interesting, but partially flawed. I would like to see some followup studies done correcting for this.

On another note, Aina, I'm excited to hear you're planning to test a placebo patch against the lifewave patches. If you need someone well-trained in statistics to do any simple analysis, let me know. I try to read this website often, but miss some things. You are free to email me at jamiebb-at-uchicago-dot-edu and if you send me some data, I can do some simple analysis for you.

Jamie
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 02:38 PM
Razela, I agree that the UK study was badly flawed. The report says that the test subjects were told they were being given "placebo pills made of an inert substance, like sugar pills, that have been shown in clinical studies to produce significant improvement in IBS symptoms through mind-body self-healing processes."

A sophisticated person, such as one of the gentle readers of this forum, hearing that speech would say to himself, "Oh, I'm getting a placebo. I know exactly what that is. It doesn't do jack by itself."

An unsophisticated person hearing that speech might say to himself, "I didn't really understand what he just said, because I'm not sure what 'inert substance' and 'mind-body healing processes' mean exactly. However, what I'm pretty sure I heard was that this pill has been proven in clinical studies to work very well. They're giving me a very effective medicine, that much I did understand."

Two different test subjects, two completely opposite subjective beliefs being triggered.

So the only thing that was actually tested was whether various people reported reductions in their symptoms after being given sugar pills and that particular speech - whatever that speech meant to each person.

Yeah, a minimally probative study, I'd say.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 03:38 PM
Joel and Razela,

Agreed that the placebo study was flawed but I was just illustrating a point that the old fashioned view of "placebo" has changed in the light of studies done in the past few years.

I imagine, if I look hard enough, I'll find a better study to make the point that the placebo effect can still bring about real changes in physiology even when you know it's a placebo.

Dave
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 03:41 PM
Here's a novel twist on the placebo effect:

"Poor expectations of treatment can override all the effect of a potent pain-relieving drug, a brain imaging study at Oxford University has shown."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110226212356.htm
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 | 04:08 PM
Nocebo effect: Interesting.

The link from EDHUK reports on tests performed on the same subjects <i>in seriatum</i> as well as in parallel to determine the effects of real treatment followed by nocebo treatment. I don't believe that tests performed <i>in seriatum</i> on the same subject(s) are necessarily flawed or unscientific for that reason alone.
Aina
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 | 05:41 AM
Razela: Thank you for offering. I shall get back to you 😊

About nocebo. It's really interesting (Don't have the time to read the article right now), and this effect makes me wonder: To what degree do we really ned pain killers. To what degree could patients benefit from just placebo, and that way avoid harmful side effects.
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 | 06:09 PM
The phony
Joel
Member
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 | 06:09 PM
<b>THE TOP 6 OTHER THINGS THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BY NOW IF LIFEWAVE PATCHES ACTUALLY WORKED AS ADVERTISED</b>

11. When the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) in Australia challenged Lifewave distributor Michael Podolsky to show that the patches do what Lifewave
Fred
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 | 06:19 PM
Joel, I wonder why Schmidt has never simply obtained a design patent, say for some unique patch shape, instead of filing that lame utility patent application. Schmidt's IP attorney must have insisted that there was no chance of success, but took his money anyway. With a design patent Schmidt could have a patent number, and I'm certain 100% of his victims would not have any concept of the difference.

My guess is: tooling and production for a unique patch shape would increase manufacturing cost per unit by a factor of 10, or more, and the essential feature to this MLM is a product that costs pennies to manufacture.
WWSN
Member
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 | 09:15 PM
An excellent list, Joel.

Many people just do not get the fact that if Lifewave patches did what they claim, it would violate all of the known laws of science, mathematics, chemistry, biology, and physics.

Dr. David Schmidt has claimed that his patches can increase serotonin as well as HGH levels. If he can control, increase and regulate hormone and chemical levels with a non-transdermal patch, he can also increase levels of endorphins, testosterone, insulin, and estrogen. He could CURE diabetes overnight. I wonder if that would be a profitable use of Lifewave patches?

No, instead he claims to cure autism...

Dr. Schmidt claims he can now influence the human body and achieve the same results currently achieved only through the use of FDA regulated and controlled pharmaceuticals. Therefore, the FDA would be required by law to regulate Lifewave patches.

After all, if one HGH patch makes you younger, Suzanne Somers would be using them by the dozens each day (along with her daily 80 pills and vagina injections, as she has described). Lifewave patches would be available only by prescription.

What football team wouldn't want to increase player energy, strength and stamina by 40% in less than ten minutes? If Lifewave patches really worked, the first team to outfit their players with patches would be unstoppable and guaranteed Super Bowl winners.

If the patches were anything but frauds, EVERY athlete would be wearing them all the time. Any one who did NOT wear a patch would be finished. This is all so painfully obvious to anyone with a dozen or more active brain sells, it boggles the mind how people cannot see this scam for what it is.

Here's my own "Top Ten" list:

<b><a href="http://worldwidescam.info/lwtop10b.htm" target="_blank">Top Ten Signs That You've Worn Your Lifewave Patch Too Long</a></b>

Bob
WWSN
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 | 01:41 AM
I don't recall seeing a link to this article from Wired magazine about placebos and why they seem to be becoming more "powerful" over time on this thread before. I apologize if I'm posting something that's already been linked to here.

http://tinyurl.com/mwlxfp
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 | 06:52 AM
CMG

It's also interesting to note, while we're having a placebo effect day or two, that in the UK many years ago a psychiatric hospital "treated" a number of patients for severe depression with Electro Convulsive Therapy (ECT) only to find out after a month or so that the ECT electronic box was broken.

None of the patients had actually received the electric stimulus to the brain. However, the expected percentage of patients improved!

How could this be?

Having assisted with ECT when working as a psychiatric nurse in my younger days, I know that the process of receiving ECT treatments involves way more than the actual treatment session.

The patient is primed to prepare for expected improvement. The doctor and nurses are expecting to see a reaction to the electronic stimulus when the button is pressed. Due to the nature of modified ECT the reaction can be minor. Onlookers can convince themselves that the patient had a very minor response. They think the eyelids twitched or they saw muscle movement, tiny though it was.

The patient recovers from the session with a nice cup of tea. Over the next day or so, before the next treatment, nurses reinforce that the patient is "getting better" by the day.

The patient is encouraged to "feel" an improvement.

Yes, the placebo effect is an amazing phenomenon and Schmidt, the sleazoid sociopath, continues to use this phenomenon to make money while mislabeling his "products".

Who knows, if sociopath Schmidt were to label his patches as "For Placebo Use Only" he may well make an honest living!
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 | 01:18 PM
<b>ASK FOR PLACEBO PATCHES FROM LIFFEWAVE</b>

Aina:

In the past, Lifewave has claimed that it has conducted numerous double blind placebo controlled studies. If that were true, you should be able to obtain placebo patches from Lifewave for your testing purposes.

I, however, suspect that either (a) Lifewave has never made such placebo patches, or (b) that they don't look/feel identical to Lifewave patches and are therefore not true placebos, or (c) Lifewave really, really does not want to make placebo patches available to people to test for themselves because they know that people will then easily verify for themselves that Lifewave patches are themselves nothing more than expensive placebos.

So please ask Lifewave to provide you with placebo patches so that you can conduct your own double blind placebo controlled tests, and let us know what they say. I submit that Lifewave's response, which I bet you 10:1 will be evasions and/or refusals, will be more probative and revealing than anything else Lifewave has ever said about its patches.
WWSN
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 | 01:52 PM
Dr. David Schmidt has said that his nanotechnology resonant energy nontransdermal Lifewave patches can <b>"increase growth hormone levels"</b> (in his own words):<b>

<a href="http://worldwidescam.info/dshgh.htm" target="_blank">"We can do some really crazy things with this!"</a></b>

If Dr. Schmidt has the know-how and technology to increase HGH levels, it would be a simple matter for him to alter insulin levels (the insulin hormone molecule is much smaller and less complex than the growth hormone molecule).

Do you think there might be a market for a Lifewave patch that could control and regulate insulin levels? In 2010, an estimated 285 million people were living with diabetes.

Dr. Schmidt and Lifewave bragged about their donation of Lifewave patches to the earthquake relief effort in Haiti. What would a cure for diabetes do for the image of Dr. Schmidt and his amazing nanotechnology patches?

It is undeniable - if Dr. Schmidt can raise glutathione levels by 300% and raise growth hormone levels with a nontransdermal patch, regulating insulin hormone levels should be easy - and it would make Dr. Schmidt and his minions wealthy beyond belief.

So why doesn't he do it?

Because he is NOT a doctor, he is NOT a scientist, and Lifewave patches do NOTHING but lighten the wallets and purses of the gullible people who fall for all of the New Age nonsense spewed forth by an immoral and unethical cabal of quacks and phonies such as Steven Haltiwanger and Karen Kan, and hustlers and propagandists such as Eldon Taylor.

Bob
WWSN
<b><a href="http://wlifewavescam.com" target="_blank">LifewaveScam.com</a></b>
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 | 02:27 PM
Mais, il y a beaucoup de r
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 | 02:27 PM
Traduction (fran
Joel
Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 | 05:07 PM
Frenchy keeps trying to refute what we say with anonymous testimonials, or even more pathetically second hand anonymous testimonials, as if second hand anonymous testimonials can trump all science, physics, chemistry, and logic.

I'd say that Frenchy has a severe learning disability. Perhaps Frenchy himself is autistic.
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 | 05:33 PM
Frenchy te donne un t
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 01:20 AM
Traduction (fran
Pat
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 02:42 AM
This looks like a real patch.

http://www.lifescientist.com.au/article/395717/vaxxas_gets_15m_injection_develop_needle-free_vaccine/
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 04:40 AM
This looks like a real patch.


http://www.lifewavetraining.com/products-icewave.asp
Pat
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 04:51 AM
Sorry monseiur, you lose!

http://www.lifescientist.com.au/article/395717/vaxxas_gets_15m_injection_develop_needle-free_vaccine/

Shame on you for trying to fool your friends and family.....unlike you I am not selling anything. I am not shamelessly taking money from people in pain by selling them a fraudulent product. I am simply updating the news.
Pat
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 05:28 AM
But look monsieur:), (hope I got the spelling right this time).....there's more.

http://www.lifescientist.com.au/article/366200/uq_researchers_awarded_syringe-free_vaccination_technology/
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 05:29 AM
"Frenchy gives you a real testimony."

As we continue to remind folks, testimonies, anecdotal information etc. is NOT a substitute for properly conducted research.

In the real world, no one is going to start taking medicine because "my uncle had good results".

France is certainly "different".

Frenchy demonstrates why.
EDHUK
Member
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 05:33 AM
Pat,

The Nanopatch is fascinating.

However, let's not forget that the sociopath Schmidt has based his business around the central statement that his patches are non-transdermal.

NOTHING enters the body while money enters his bank account!
Pat
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 05:50 AM
Well Dave, here is a legitimate product that actually enters the body and will do some good for mankind.
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 11:37 AM
Frenchy, essentially <i>every</i>scam comes with lots of testimonials, maybe a few phony
Joel
Member
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 | 12:04 PM
<b>MORE ON LIFEWAVE'S
Joel
Member
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 | 04:22 PM
For anyone such as Frenchy who believes in testimonials, be sure to send televangelist Peter Popoff lots of money because by the testimonials (http://www.peterpopoffministries.com/testimonial.php) on his website he'll make you wealthy and will heal you of all of your diseases and ailments. Becoming one of his devotees sounds like a <i>much</i> better use of your time and money as a guaranteed avenue to health and wealth than being an MLM distributor for Lifewave.

. . . if you believe testimonials, that is. Praise Jesus, brother!
HOHOHOHO
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 | 04:41 PM
Joel,

Personne ne te demande de croire des t
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