Vampire Sites

Mr.Sand

Perhaps Mr.Private's discovery is the flaw that you mentioned that you discovered in the ToV's VB about 40 or 50 pages back?

In my opinion Mr.Private, what it is that you are stating in the above is that, ToV teachings aren't as sacred as Nemo claims.

I would say...good find and great content for this page and it's loyal fans.

I also say...

Hail Satan!

Hail EiS!

Hail p.133

Hail Outstanding Difference #5

In my opinion Mr.Private, what it is that you are stating in the above is that, ToV teachings aren't as sacred as Nemo claims.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and it is pretty easy to find this document online to see for one's self.

Additionally, it backs up what other ex-members and Usenet postings are saying about George Smith and Aquino saying about him being an ex-ToS member.

And, once again, you can go back to the CoS website where Nemo states he was once a member of some organization that he didn't name that almost ruined his life.

Yet I do understand that if one did not own a Vampire Predator Bible then they will not be able to see this. Then again, for the ToV member reading this, this document mentions WTW, BTE, and deidentification which have been mentioned in the First Circle ToV forums. Ergo, if you are a Lifeforce member then you may be able to validate this for yourself by reading the aforementioned document which is found online with ease.

Rupert, I think EiS sums it up. 😛

Wow. This is just staggering. I knew things were bad, but not this bad!

I had read The Predator Bible and I'm very familiar with these texts in the links above. Rex Church also contributed to The Ruby Tablet of Set I heard, though I have yet to read what he has written.

So The Temple of the Vampire is a blatent ripoff of the Temple of Set. I wonder why Michael Aquino hasn't done anything about it. Surely he knows. This would be his golden opportunity to bring down the CoS. Obviously, he's not taking action for a reason. I wonder what's in it for him...

The plot thickens! 🧛

I'm currently reading Michael Aquino's E-book, "The Church of Satan." I just started it and I find his analysis and perception of LaVey to be way off the mark and it's completely obvious his assessment of him is bias. Michael Aquino has his own agenda. It's clear when you read his words. I almost abandoned the book out of boredom but perhaps it is worth a read considering that what he says about most other members and CoS is at least half true.

What a great pic....I want to fly that as a banneer on LttD!


I think ToV is on it's was to being debunked..not even on the basis of whether or not it's practices are real but on a factual basis....

Their claims have been proven false in terms of timeline.

There new recruits had no knowledge of what has recently been presented here and those that had knowledge were high enough up in the organization that they were being greased or strong-armed to keep quiet.

What I fear is that most of the new recruits are too stupid to do any research, rather they will blindly fall victim to the cult and it's over-weight cripple of a leader.

What are you going to do Nemo...behind your 20" widescreen monitor you are a coward.

So what, you were on Art Bell...So was a guy that claimed he found a hole in which you could hear the sounds from hell!

Just like a Polygamist-Mormon Cult Leader, you will be brought to justice.

ToS/ToV.....It's the same thing; substitute Setian with Vampirian..

Unless Dr.Aquino is in on the killtaker, one might thing that he would be up-in-arms over the copyright infringement or maybe just the copycat infringement!

At the very least I would expect him to call them all F'ing Posers!

One might consider the following:

Hail Satan!

Hail EiS!

Hail P.133!

Hail OUTSTANDING DIFFERENCE #5

It's good to see you back Green Fairy. Please respond to my questions in the middle of page 48 or admit you know nothing of the people involved and fabricated your intimate knowledge of Vampyric events withing the Church of Satan.

The accusations against Magister Diabolus Rex Church and Magister Nemo on this thread are reprehensible. None of you know anything of those involved or their purposes. Your conjecture approaches criminality.

"Part of the denial reflex is to attack the messenger then when they respond scream they are [liars,] picking on me or look at them run away."

So The Temple of the Vampire is a blatent ripoff of the Temple of Set.

I understand why you think that yet that is a big conclusion to jump to.

The fact remains that I did find an article written by a ToS member in the Ruby Tablet document yet this only means that "part" of the Vampire Bible was written by a former ToS member.

I did say some things about how I felt about the ToV being heavily influenced by the ToS yet those were just my own personal assumptions and I never stated they were "fact"(or didn't mean to) yet I still have those feelings.

Also, there is no real solid evidence that the writer of this section in the RToS is Nemo either; however, it is my strong suspicion/personal opinion it is. And when I found this section of writing by accident, it did suggest to me that the Vampire Bible may not be as sacred as some thought like Rupert stated.

I also agree with another here that you have to take anything Aquino writes with a grain of salt.

Also, it seems that many ex-Temple members in other forums and in old usenet posts are claiming that Nemo and Rex are ex-ToS members, not me, I am just posting what I found out in cyberspace being posted by others.

Personally, I don't think all these posters are all liars because why are they all saying the same thing in different places and I feel where there is smoke there may be fire.

...that "part" of the Vampire Bible was written by a former ToS member.

Correction, I mean the Predator Bible.

To Outside; I am on Green Fairy's side. I object to his lies all the same.

To Private; My accusations are not concerned with you. You have at worst only represented other posts from unreliable sources as proof.

Green Fairy; You have made unsupported claims that the Church of Satan actively promoted the Temple; That hierarchy members have been suckered in; That Magisters other than Ventrue and Nemo are members; That a priest attacked the Temple on Myspace for illegal activity; That you know the names of the Council of Nine (PREPOSTEROUS!); That members not admitted to have been Setians were in the Temple of Set; That Church of Satan members have been blacklisted for activity against the Temple of the Vampire; That >>>90% of CoS members who join now ONLY did so because they see that people they respect among the hierarchy as well as other intelligent good standing members are joining.<<<; And most absurdly: ">>>I do know everyone, interact with them and have been around long enough to witness all of the important things and have inside information from the people who matter.<<<"

When asked to back this up, Green Fairy left for weeks. I say again: Name your names; Support your claims; admit your lies; or leave forever.

Square peg,

I have absolutely no problem answering your questions to the best of my ability.

I did answer your questions last time and so did a million other people. There are numerous links throughout this forum that also answer every single question you have asked.

As for personal conversations I've had with people within the CoS who revealed these things to me - I cannot prove that. You can either believe me or not. I do not care. I never expected anyone to take my word for it. Just sharing information. Take it or leave it. It's up to you.

Here are some answers to your questions that are common knowledge to everyone but you:


>>The Church of Satan has never in any way promoted the Temple.<<


The CoS website does not list the ToV under their links page like any other website they support, but as a SOURCE - which to me, carries more weight:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Sources.html


Promotion of Nemo's Temple of the Vampire interview on Art Bell


http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/News39.html

The CoS Emporium sells ToV merchandise:

http://www.cosemporium.com/home.php

Radio Free Satan has corny ToV commercials every 15 minutes throughout the show.

http://www.radiofreesatan.com/links.html



>>Show me the Warlocks, Reverends and Agents you know who have been suckered in and I'll credit you more. I know of only a few Warlocks, no Reverends and no Agents who are in the Temple.<<



Well, I cannot say that the Magisters running the show were suckered in. Everyone else? Pretty much...

Magister Phineas, Magistra Isabel, Magister Rex, Magister Lang, Magister Ventrue, Magister Harris, Reverend Entity, Reverend Daark, Warlock Caesar, Warlock Draconis Blackthorne, Warlock Corvis Nocturnum, Witch Josephine, Warlock Dark_Adept, Warlock Linguacelestia

This is but a tiny list I can think of off the top of my head. If you are a member of Lifeforce, you will see a lot more names. I gave you the source, now go do your homework.

Continued...

>>I would also like to know how you knew which Magisters are on the council.<<


I already told you I found out via a private conversation I had with Rex Church.



>>Then prove which of its members were once Setians. I know of none.<<


Article on CoS website written by Nemo where he admits being involved in a pseudo-Satanic cult:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/PseudoS.html

Website with Alt.satanism archive conversations between Aquino, Ygraine and ex-Rev, Borg:

http://sonic.net/yronwode/arcane-archive.org/religion/satanism/first-church-of-satan/cos-files/ygraine-will-and-aquino-2.php

I can no longer find Alt.satanism. Strange being that it was up a few months ago. That site is loaded with bickering between CoS and ToS dating back to 1994. Somewhere in this forum - you're going to have to do your own homework now - there is an Alt.satanism link providing a conversation between Nemo and Aquino. In that thread, Aquino reminds Nemo of his ToS roots and referring to him as George Smith.


>>I have never heard of a card carrying member of the Church of Satan being blacklisted for anti-vampyric activity.<<


A reverend I know, who shall remain nameless because he's still very active told me that he was not invited to a CoS Cabal Magister Lang and Ventrue organized a few years ago because he was vocal about his dislike for the ToV. He also told me and another Reverend similar stories of other people.


There you go. Aside from personal conversations, I gave you plenty of sources that are good proof. It is up to you now to do your own homework. If none of this information opens up your eyes I do not know what will.

>>Everyone? You don't even know me. Unless you are Magistra Jantsang or Jesus of Borg you are a liar. All 3 are deplorable.<<


Looks like you just told on yourself. You sound every bit as bitchy, whiny, touchy and uneducated as Ygraine herself. And if you are, we do indeed know each other.

Thank you for your response. It was as underwhelming as I expected. I gave you too much credit; I would be surprised if you're even an active member. You are merely a name dropper with no names to drop.

I am not Magistra Ygraine. If you know Magistra Ygraine I will eat my hat.

Private,

The information you provided regarding the Ruby Tablet of Set speaks volumes. Whether or not Nemo himself wrote it is irrelevant. It's clear that someone plagiarized portions of the RToS and put it into the Predator Bible. Does it really matter who it is? HP Gilmore and The Church of Satan are supporting a cult that plagiarizes the rival organization they despise and discredit - The Temple of Set.

The ties between the CoS and ToS, past and present are obvious. I'm only puzzled as to why Michael Aquino has done nothing about this. I know which message board he frequents, perhaps I shall ask him...

He's always begging for attention and cutting down the CoS on these boards. If he plays ignorant or remains tight-lipped on this then that's cause for suspicion.

Square Peg,

I gave you plenty of names and sources. You completely looked over the concrete evidence in the links provided throughout this entire forum and focused on my personal conversations with certain individuals. How weak is that. If you insist on playing dumb be my guest. The only one who loses is you.

Enough evidence has been posted. If the Ruby Tablet of Set/Predator Bible connection does not convince you, then you are either A. severely brainwashed and/or in denial B. you are an official trying your damnest to protect the CoS and ToV while failing miserably.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are Ygraine. Who else would mention Jantsang or Jesus of Borg? Not to mention, she is the only official with nothing better to do (being a bored housewife) who frequents messageboards getting into petty fights. Your delivery is also pretty similar.

Your personal conversations are what you need to back up. Otherwise you are posturing.

You say you met Magister Rex and Magistra Ygraine yet treat both with zero respect; You claim to know things that nobody but Magistra Barton, Magus Gilmore and High Priestess Nadramaia know. Not even members of the Council of Nine know who is in the Council of Nine.

Come out and say who you are and prove your access to the names you won't say. Or stay anonymous and say their names. Otherwise you are nothing.

>>>If the Ruby Tablet of Set/Predator Bible connection does not convince you<<<

Of what? Read my posts. I am no fan of the Temple of the Vampire.

I have never seen a Church of Satan official defend them. The promotions you listed are small and insignificant. They are listed between bats and burlesque. Others are for profit.

I would think less of the Church of Satan if they prohibited members from joining the Temple of the Vampire. They allow Nazis. Someday they will even allow active Setians. They let people make their own mistakes. This is stratification.

I am not Magistra Ygraine. I think Magistra Ygraine would avoid mentioning Jantsang and Jesus. She has much better things to do than this. She is busy keeping us all from getting lynched. Have some damn respect.

>>You say you met Magister Rex and Magistra Ygraine yet treat both with zero respect;<<


I didn't say anything disrespectful about Magister Rex. As for Ygraine, I never cared for her. Just because we met doesn't mean we're pals. The woman has issues.


>>Not even members of the Council of Nine know who is in the Council of Nine.<<


That makes absolutely no sense.


>>Come out and say who you are and prove your access to the names you won't say. Or stay anonymous and say their names. Otherwise you are nothing.<<


I would love to, because personally I have absolutely nothing to lose. But unfortunately I know others that do. Revealing my identity or even dropping names anonymously will get certain people expelled.

I still have friends in the Church of Satan who although agree with me, still wish to maintain their ranks for their own reasons. They are aware I am posting here and only request I remain anonymous until they are ready to leave. I have to grant them that respect.

If this makes me nothing in your eyes then so be it. I do not know you and even if you are who I suspect you to be, I can care less about you. So this is something I can totally live with.

You do not need to know who I am. The sources I have given you as well as everyone else has provided on the forum should be enough. You're grasping at straws.


>>I am no fan of the Temple of the Vampire.<<


You seem to be pretty passionate about the topic.



>>I have never seen a Church of Satan official defend them.<<


Oh no? You must not spend any time on LttD or Lifeforce for that matter.



>>The promotions you listed are small and insignificant.<<


Selling ToV ritual items along with Church of Satan ritual items and merchandise is hardly insignificant. The ToV should keep their shit on their own website. Also, listing the Temple as a SOURCE rather than a link on the CoS website is not insignificant either.



>>I am not Magistra Ygraine. I think Magistra Ygraine would avoid mentioning Jantsang and Jesus. She has much better things to do than this. She is busy keeping us all from getting lynched. Have some damn respect.<<


You sure seem very touchy whenever she is mentioned. She IS stupid enough to mention those people. Out of the entire bunch, she is one of the least intelligent and a drama queen. Ygraine has done absolutely nothing to earn my respect.

"It's good to see you back Green Fairy. Please respond to my questions in the middle of page 48 or admit you know nothing of the people involved and fabricated your intimate knowledge of Vampyric events withing the Church of Satan.

The accusations against Magister Diabolus Rex Church and Magister Nemo on this thread are reprehensible. None of you know anything of those involved or their purposes. Your conjecture approaches criminality."


Are you kidding me!

I have considered your posts within this discussion (up to this point) to be a fairly good contribution, keeping the representation of both sides strong.

Please spare us all your desperate attempts at strong-arming. Nobody here has stated anything as fact, this is a discussion of opinion and will remain so.

If you can't take the heat get out of Hell's Kitchen!

You can always go home to LttD and hide under your blanket of censorship.

You accused Magister Diabolus Rex Church of being both a Vampire and a Setian. Both are disrespectful.

Finish the book you are reading. It explains that members of the Council of Nine have not been formally introduced to each other since the 1960s. They are asked their opinions separately. Also the name is an occult reference; The Council of Nine doesn't have exactly nine people on it. If you believe Aquino.

I care more about the division and petty bickering regarding the Temple than I do about its association with the Church of Satan.

I am not on Lifeforce but I can access LttD if you have links of hierarchy Temple defense. Advertising is not limited to Satanic books and merchandise nor should it be. People can sell incense and books on homosexuality there. This does not mean the Church of Satan supports gay agendas or smells. The source page lists the Temple between bats and burlesque. Both are quite insignificant to most Satanists. As is the Temple.

I am touchy to see a woman who actively defends us all so disrespected by anyone who enjoys the protection her actions take. Magistra Ygraine is a fine woman who does the most important work the Church of Satan requires.

Rupert; When people make claims they should back them up. When they make insulting and scandalous claims; people who the claims are made against have every right to demand they back themselves up. How is it censorship to demand more information?

"Rupert; When people make claims they should back them up. When they make insulting and scandalous claims; people who the claims are made against have every right to demand they back themselves up."

It's all in the approach, above you have made a legitimate point and you have retracted the defensive posturing.

It makes for better conversation....here anyways. I wouldn't have bothered to interject a friggin thing if you would have initially engaged Green Fairy in more of a diplomatic tone.

Not that I'm at all worried about GF's ability to defend him/her self, I just can't tolerate the LttD governing body mindset here.

I'll do all I can to stomp that fire out.

Lesser Magic at it's finest...you should know that.

In my opinion what you demand for is out of line, what you ask for is quite in line.

Fake Nahshon said:

>>You accused Magister Diabolus Rex Church of being both a Vampire and a Setian. Both are disrespectful.<<

You are either deliberately pretending not to know this information or you are in complete denial. Everyone knows Magister Rex is a ToV Vampire Adept. He says so himself. Check out his Myspace profile.

http://www.myspace.com/diabolusrex

It has been noted several times on here by people who have read the document that Magister Rex contributed rituals to the Ruby Tablet of Set. You're going to have to download that document to see for yourself. I'm not going to do it for you.

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/174/P240/

http://ineedfile.com/the-ruby-tablet-of-set


>> members of the Council of Nine have not been formally introduced to each other since the 1960s. They are asked their opinions separately.<<


Again, I'm only going by what was told to me by hierarchy. You keep trying to shoot the messenger. Take that information however you want to. *Shrugs*


>>I am not on Lifeforce but I can access LttD if you have links of hierarchy Temple defense<<


That's unfortunate because Lifeforce is the best source for this. They are more open about it there. I'm no longer a member of LttD since Ventrue started charging, so I cannot run proper searches. You'll have to look that up yourself. One only need to search under "ToV" to encounter all of the posts from hierarchy that either deter discussion of the group or defend them from criticism.


>>The source page lists the Temple between bats and burlesque. Both are quite insignificant to most Satanists. As is the Temple.<<


That's not true. The Sources page is mostly bedrock Satanic literature by LaVey and CoS hierarchy, music and important projects by members of the CoS. If the ToV was insignificant they would be in the links section. Not listed under SOURCES for The Church of Satan.


>>I am touchy to see a woman who actively defends us all so disrespected by anyone who enjoys the protection her actions take.<<


I do not need Magistra Ygraine's protection. She's not very well liked by many. The woman has issues. Your mention of the former Rev. Borg, Jantsang, hysterical demanding tone and contant cheerleading for her raise suspicions you very well may be her.

Or at least someone close to her. It is obvious you remain completely biased regardless of the evidence presented to you.

>>...people who the claims are made against have every right to demand they back themselves up.<<


Did I make any claims against you? I was talking about Ygraine. This statement you just made is so telling and also helps prove my suspicion regarding who you really are.

They allow Nazis. Someday they will even allow active Setians.

I wonder what led you to to believe they would allow active Setians someday?

I thought the CoS considered the Temple of Set to be a rival organization because of its attacks against Anton LaVey and his organization. I am sorry yet I highly doubt the CoS will show mutual admiration for the ToS.

And for non-CoS/ToV members in this forum here is a quote about the Church of Satan and politics:

"The Church of Satan is not a NAZI organization. As has been said many times before, one

"Such people may join; however, once they have flowed into some other system of thought no longer consistent with Satanism it is not Satanism that must change, but their own self-definition as Satanists that should be shed as it has been abandoned."--

I had never seen Magister Diabolus Rex Church's Myspace page and will not illegally download Setian or any other documents. Your explanation of the sources is sufficient.

I tried to shoot the messenger because he would not reveal who sent the message. I was rude because the accusations you related involved me secondhand and were not true. For the last time I am not Magistra Ygraine.

The page you linked was as I described it. The Temple is exactly as important a source as the bat rescue and burlesque show. The Sources page is not the Theory and Practice page.

Defense of a good woman whose personal issues are none of our concern is not cheerleading. You will also notice that Ygraine has mentioned Borg once in her blogs and Jantsang not at all. The only people who mention them these days are Church of Satan detractors such as Aquino and Schreck.

The Church of Satan allows members of any other non-contradictory organization to join. The Temple of Set has gradually changed and continues to change into a being compatible if not at all similar to the Church of Satan. Soon they will be as acceptable to the Church of Satan on paper as the O.T.O.. When Aquino dies there will be no further reason to deny a member to explore the mystical side of the path.

Some Satanists recognize that a stick alone is weak but many bound together are strong. I'm surprised your source hasn't accused Magus Gilmore of being one of them too. Tell me please; does your source think Magus Gilmore is a former Setian; Vampire or member of the American Fascist Party?

Just curious...is everyone here a jesus and trying to "save" these folks from the temple? I mean really what has this entire forum done?

The temple exists still. they will continue to attract members. hell christianity is even more bullshit than the temple and thats been around for over 2,000 years..so my question is what is the purpose of this website and post? to expose the temple? okay so you've done that...now what?

also if you say to detract members from the church of satan and temple remember those words in the satanic bible about man being his own redeemer. this forum is even more anti-satanic than the temple of the vampire could ever be.

This is a unique Vampire website for real vampires as well as the curious. It has valuable information for any real vampire and is based on scientific evidence. It also leads to other good websites for real vampires.

When Aquino dies there will be no further reason to deny a member to explore the mystical side of the path.

There is no support of "mysticism" in Satanism the last time I checked.

Some Satanists recognize that a stick alone is weak but many bound together are strong.

"The use of the adjective

Just curious...is everyone here a jesus and trying to "save" these folks from the temple? I mean really what has this entire forum done?

"1. When someone claims to have a direct line of communication with Satan[undead gods], watch out. Selling that kind of mysticism is exactly how Christianity has kept people enslaved in ignorance for centuries. <b>It

"1. When someone claims to have a direct line of communication with Satan[undead gods], watch out. Selling that kind of mysticism is exactly how Christianity has kept people enslaved in ignorance for centuries. It

"1. When someone claims to have a direct line of communication with Satan[undead gods], watch out. Selling that kind of mysticism is exactly how Christianity has kept people enslaved in ignorance for centuries. It

Thank you, just curious, and I will take your opinions into consideration.

@Private -

What the Church of Satan says and does are two completely different things...as evidenced with the whole ToV nonsense.

But then again you undermine anything the priesthood has to say about Satanism since they're all members of the Temple.

And once again, we return to the argument that anyone who is against the ToV, questions it or questions the support of it by the CoS is not Satanic or acting like a heretic... :zip: :roll:

Also, its not fair for the hierarchy to get mad at Satanists who have never been members of the Temple or who didn't get results as ToV members to wonder why the CoS is against belief in conjuring external entities when one comes to the Temple's website stating:

"THE CALLING OF THE UNDEAD GODS

In exquisite and careful detail, you will learn exactly what to do in order to meet the most advanced Vampires in a direct and powerful manner.

We know who has honestly obtained these instructions from us.
If you have been honest with us, we will come to you."

I invite you to picture this, picture being a Satanist who is against belief in external anthropomorphic entities and now imagine what they think when reading the above quote or reading in the vampire bible about conjuring the undead in your chamber. Got the idea? Wouldn't you be a bit confused as a Satanist as to why this organization is supported by atheistic symbolic Satanists?

So now can you understand why some of us here have a beef with their judgement and support of the ToV? It just seems like one big contradiction.

Its not like this type of person is out to attack the CoS; they are just saying in their head, "What this Hell is this and how is this compatible with Satanism from the CoS's perspective?"

And then the Satanist who is was in alignment with the CoS's non-theistic views is left confused. Basically, the whole attitude displayed in this forum is a "What the Hell!" and "its all Bull" type of attitude. Seriously, can you not understand why some CoS members here, on LTTD and elsewhere are concerned?

http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=361312#Post361312

Is the poster LoneNights a "bad guy" or not a Satanist for questioning what he perceives as a contradiction to Satanism? I don't think so yet he or she was quickly silenced with verbal judo which is VERY suspicious. :zip:

"Often the Church of Satan is accused of being a great big organization where members must never question the hierarchy. This is not true."--A Critique taken from Magistra Ytraine's Various Satanic Rants

http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

Anyway, we have already questioned and said what we chose to say so its a bit late to try and tell us to shut up. :zip: :lol:

Sorry, this isn't LTTD...

Though Magister Phineas and others rightfully tell people to stay quiet on LttD about the Temple; RMerciless gave a perfect answer which satisfied the questioner. He was often the voice of reason on Alt.Satanism too. Before you start Green Fairy; I am not RMerciless.

LttD is not the Church of Satan. LttD is a hangout for many Satanists which is run by a Satanist and Vampire. It reflects both. That is Magister Frost's right.

I have never been dissatisfied or ignored in asking questions of the hierarchy. I have questioned posts; essays; books and policies of Dr. LaVey, Magus Gilmore and many Magisters. I have also questioned them personally about the Temple of the Vampire. I have always been answered fully in that matter leading to my present views of the situation.

But I have honored their demands not to be questioned about it on LttD. Respect Magister Frost's rules in his domain. But ask freely; and to the poster who claimed to be waiting for a reply from Magus Gilmore himself; He has better things to do. Why not ask an agent?

I dont think it is wrong to question CoS hierarchy but I don't think an answer would suffice. I think it is all up to the individual to decide if the Temple is or isn't compatible. I don't see anything wrong with asking how or why but if you are incapable of understanding then it is your issue.

Also I was speaking about those who did talk shit about the CoS. This wasn't everyone but certainly there is no shortage around here.

"And then the Satanist who is was in alignment with the CoS's non-theistic views is left confused. Basically, the whole attitude displayed in this forum is a "What the Hell!" and "its all Bull" type of attitude. Seriously, can you not understand why some CoS members here, on LTTD and elsewhere are concerned?"

So coming here and creating a massive stink based upon lack of understanding is resolving this issue? Has posting here succeeded in solving anyones curiosity? I mean seriously. What would concern me most is living adults would all gravitate here and just post random complaints. I am just wondering if this forum has succeeded in anything? I mean what is the major goal here? Can that even be answered?

its a place 2 gather info. ive learnd lots. all s8tnists like 4bidden knowledeg, f we didn we woundtve found the satanic bibl. hear we can tlak bout stuff they dont let us say on ltdd. someitmes its trolls but sometims its good ppl. and i think some of the ppl here are big names, warlocks and revs and stuff. and square peg mite be ygraine! lol

Private; I have read Magus Gilmore's essays.

>>>There is no support of "mysticism" in Satanism the last time I checked.<<<

Mysticism is broadly defined. Satanism is not compatible with belief with some of the Temple of Set's doctrines. It may be compatible with others. Satanists are not restricted from looking into other such half relevant religions. I expect the Church Of Satan to allow members to look into the Temple of Set's esoteric goings on; much like Masonry or O.T.O. As soon as the last vestige of their claim to be LaVey's true successor dies; if it survives Aquino at all.

>>>"The use of the adjective

A Square Peg since you have been so vocal here I have some questions:

1. Are you an ex-member of the ToV?

2. Are you thinking about joining the ToV or supporting their religion? If so, then why?

3. Are you a "legally registered" member of the Church of Satan?

If so, then you should have no problem identifying who you really on here (and not remaining anonymous) since you are speaking for the CoS and its Administration.

Otherwise, you are a fraud and misrepresenting the CoS on here in regards to the CoS Administration's so-called position on the Setian issue.

5. Do you think summoning external undead god entities is compatible with Satanism as codified by Anton LaVey? Before answering the question, please review the "preface" to The Satanic Bible.

5. Last, do you think the ToV is a mind control cult, hoax or a scam?

If you are not a member of the CoS then stop being a poseur and speaking for them. I have more respect for Old Age than a fraud and poseur with supposed inside scoops any day of the week. If this is the case then who cares who YOU are because you can't even be honest with your affiliations or identity on here. :lol:

Furthermore, if you are a BIG FAKE then you are a self-righteous hypocrite for interrogating Green Fairy like your a CoS representative with your condescending parental attitude.

And if you do not reveal your identity here then we all have our answer. This is because a public representative of the CoS should have no problems with revealing their identity to the "public".

I do not speak for the Church of Satan; I had not said so because I thought it was obvious from my first post that I am just another concerned poster. I have repeatedly explained I am not specific hierarchy, I will say now that I am not even a Warlock. I am a nobody and have never acted like anything more. I have posted guesses and suspicions regarding the Temple of Set, but make no claims. I said "I expect the Church of Satan will" and not "We will". I have never claimed to have an inside scoop on anything. I am taking Green Fairy to task for claiming to have an inside scoop without backing it up. When have I ever claimed to speak in any official capacity? Your questions:

1- No.
2- No.
3- I have a red card.
5- Only in the ritual chamber.
5- Yes.

You would probably not care who I am or recognize my name or even my LttD name. Green Fairy has insinuated she knows people and has inside scoops. Green Fairy is the only person here who merits the scrutiny you put me to.

And we would all be happy to know who you are, Private.

I appreciate your reply and your honesty.

I also appreciate you trying to help me understand where you are coming from.

I have nothing else to say in regards to myself other than my opinions and theories expressed here are my own.

And I hope the links I have provided speak for themselves in this forum in regards to the various topics spoken about here.

And I think what most here, especially concerned CoS members and ex-ToV members are looking for is simply some closure. And trying to pretend it never happened and forgetting about it all is just not good enough. Some may lie and say they just moved on yet it has affected their lives and many feel resentful and want a sense of justice in their lives.

Also, when you feel you have been lied to, manipulated, or taken advantage of it is only natural to be resentful and desire justice when one feels a perceived wrong.

I am not here to save anyone yet I would like to see the ToV end if it is nothing more than a mind control cult. I don't like being played and I hope what comes around goes around for the founders of the Temple. I hope they end up as unhappy and frustrated as they have left many ex-members left feeling.

And before the reader judges some here for voicing there concerns I ask the reader to put themselves in our shoes. I think most here are not here out of mean intent just to attack the ToV or CoS. It is simple--many here feel taken advantage of and wronged if one is willing to objectify the evolution and direction this forum has taken.

And why are there so many people saying the same negative things about the Temple if the ToV isn't a big money making lie. Are these people all just big mean liars out to attack the poor widdle innocent ToV who is just MISUNDERSTOOD?

I haven't revealed my identity so I don't care about getting attention or trying to save anybody.

As for me, I just want some closure and feel like there is some justice if we are just a bunch of fleeced rubes.

I am not a great writter and maybe I am wrong about some things yet I know when something doesn't smell right. And I think the ToV stinks...

"This is because a public representative of the CoS should have no problems with revealing their identity to the 'public'."

Actually the Church of Satan does NOT require any member INCLUDING members of the Priesthood, which are defacto-spokes persons, to out themselves to the public.


This is not mere opinion but if FACT.

Private; Our interests are different. You want to recover. You rightly include vengeance in the recovery process; Though I don't think posts here will have any effect on the Temple. If it helps you of course you're on the only track that matters.

My concern is for myself, then other Satanists I know, then the Church of Satan. I have met no Satanists excepting yourself who have had a problem because of the Temple. I have know of several who have had problems relating to the allegations against them from this thread. I have never seen evidence that the Church of Satan itself suffers from Temple association; But I do see the undertow of unmoderated irresponsible debate doing damage. This debate erodes the mutual respect between those concerned and I post here to defend myself and my friends from Green Fairy's as-of-yet unbacked accusations.

Like you say, the Temple of the Vampire does stink. So I stay far from it. But I don't spread rumors about which witch stinks worst. Like most rumors, I think Green Fairy himself is making it up for drama, ruining the names of good men and women for his own amusement.

>>>And why are there so many people saying the same negative things about the Temple if the ToV isn't a big money making lie.<<<

Yes, nobody ever says anything bad about the Church of Satan. Had to call you on that one. 😊

"You would probably not care who I am or recognize my name or even my LttD name. Green Fairy has insinuated she knows people and has inside scoops. Green Fairy is the only person here who merits the scrutiny you put me to."

I merit the scrutiny....I merit all scrutiny that Green Fairy and Private puts to anybody on here.

Both of these individuals have stood strong in our battle against the plastic-fangers and have both stood-fast with facts and statements backing up our cause.

There is a cabal here....definately invisible to you but quite visible to me.

We have been here since the pages were in their teens and the comments were pre-hundred.

We have been told by many to give up the hunt and that what we were doing was a waste.

Private has been through this whole cycle of interaction numerous times..it's insane but I love it!

The bottom line is that the notion of the Undead Gods is contradictory to Satanism. The ToV as designed is not compatible with Satanism.

Now lets continue on with the task at hand...Name dropping! This is the most benefitial thing that can come from all of this.

Hail Satan!

Hail EiS!

Hail p.133

Hail Outstanding Difference #5

An interesting tidbit which I don't think anyone else has addressed--Gilmore is a fan of Michelle Belanger, a so-called "psychic vampire" (and an illegitimate vampire by ToV standards). You can read her "Vampire Codex," and the comment about Gilmore, here:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/goth/vc/vc00.htm

"It has also come to the attention of several noteworthy occult organizations, including the Temple of Set, the IOT and the Church of Satan. (Peter Gilmore, current head of the Church of Satan, expressed his disappointment at Michelle's absence at the New York City release of "V" as he wanted her autograph on the special edition of the Codex released with that work)."

Frankly, if Gilmore likes Belanger's crap (and she is such a pathetic goth vampire wannabe, profiled on some History Channel vampire documentary trying to "feed" on some partner), I wouldn't be surprised if he's actively involved in some way with the ToV.

I'll find the footage of Belanger "feeding" on YouTube and post it, just so y'all can see who Gilmore's a fan of.

Here's the cooky critter in all her vampiric splendour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5yyFS1koDg&feature=related

There's more of the interview here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5yyFS1koDg&feature=related