Vampire Sites

This is most interesting. I just like others here find it hard to believe that the Church of Satan puts up with this. Unless they (COS) get money from it or use it as some sort of social experiment. Has anyone asked any of the hierarchy about this i wonder?

Anyhoo.

I don't know much about the cos and don't know anything 'inside' about the tov but the two systems just don't seem to be compatible. undead gods? really?

But nemo is had set this up brilliantly though, Think about it. If one is able to prove that the "gods" don't exist he can say "METAPHOR"! "We didn't mean it".

See how this works?

At best I see the "gods" as either servitors, thoughtforms or "astral" projections of the "upper" echelon themselves. So they are covered that way also. I mean if they were really undead gods why would they have to "find" the "lost" family members? I mean shouldn't they be able to tell "astrally"?

At worst, all of this is a sham with Nemo and Gilmore laughing all the way to the bank. I find it hard to believe that LaVey would ok this, unless he KNEW it was a sham and got a laugh or two out of people's gullibility.

unless of course the cos higher-ups don't know but that seems unlikely.

the only thing I wonder is what are their nine laws of magic? i suspect i know but am curious. id buy the bible and find out myself but no way am i joining.

I've been a member of the CoS for quite some time now and I find it embarrassing that the CoS and ToV are bedfellows. LaVey would have never put up with this bullshit. I speculate that the ToV is one of a couple of business ventures that funnels money into the CoS. Anyone who is familiar with the spinoff CoS websites 'UnderCroft' and 'Letters to the Devil' know that this is the case. If you look through the profiles of the members of these sites (especially LttD) you will see blatant promotion of the ToV. This is not questioned whatsoever.
My personal opinion is, since Gilmore is obviously not acting to abolish this hypocrisy, he needs to rename his cabal "The Church of the Satanic Vampire INC.", abolish the one time membership fee and charge the ten dollars a month that Satanic Magister Vampire Nemo has been doing all along.
Gilmore should also revise the Satanic Bible and remove the things that clash with Nemo's contradictory gobbledygook.

What this will accomplish will make people who are both CoS and ToV members not look like such gull able hypocritical fools to others.

Unfortunately, I don't see any changes coming.
Too bad a whole generation of potential CoS members could easily be entering a structure unlike LaVey intended it to be.
The "I am a Vampire - bow down before me" garbage from the Vampire Bible is such trash.

I cannot picture myself or any other Satanist thinking in those terms. The ToV is a scam and it must be distanced from the CoS,
Again, I don't see this happening. There is too much love of money in high places going on. Believe me.

can anyone tell us when nemo was promoted to the COS hierarchy? Did it happen after Anton died?

does anyone have any Temple of Set connections who might know what happened?

It would almost appear as if the COS has been hijacked by these so-called vampires. What a waste!

Chill out, people!

It's probably just a prank of sorts. The reason that so many TOV people are at the top of the COS is because Nemo gave them titles probably, not because the TOV is "taking over."

Nemo was made a priest by Anton LaVey- he's referred to as a COS priest online in alt.satanism group postings from the early 90s. LaVey was probably well aware of the TOV; if you read the Devil's Notebook and Satan Speaks, I think he even gives them a wink once or twice.

I wrote Aquino recently and asked about the TOV and he said he had no clue what the hell it was.

And well I think it's a rube thing to join the TOV and am happy to expose them, read the Satanic Witch if you think the TOV's activities are outside the realm of Satanism; or even better, LaVey's favorite novel Nightmare Alley, about the founder of a cult. What Nemo is doing is technically perfectly acceptable by Satanism's standards.

"I wrote Aquino recently and asked about the TOV and he said he had no clue what the hell it was."

I wish to get something clear here:
You are telling us that you are communicating with the founder of the Temple of Set and he says that he has no idea that Nemo, who was a former member of the ToS, helped form a cult called the Temple of the Vampire?

I'm sorry, this is quite hard to believe. Am I missing something? Perhaps you can make your claim a bit clearer?

Well, he didn't say whether he'd heard of them before or not- I can only assume he probably has. I kind of phrased that harshly.

He said he was unfamiliar with what Nemo's activities since leaving the Temple of Set and didn't know any details about the Temple of the Vampire other than it wasn't connected to the TOS's Order of the Vampyre.

His e-mail is on the TOS website if you want to write him yourself for more details or clarifications. I didn't plan on mentioning that correspondence in public when I wrote it so I didn't ask for his permission to quote him directly or really to even give this much information out, so I don't want to put words in his mouth even if I inadvertly may already have.

To clarify beyond a doubt to anyone reading this: I am not a representative of the TOS or even a Setian and I don't want to create a false impression of being so. Contact them directly for definitive information on Michael Aquino or the Temple of Set's position on the Temple of the Vampire.

Grow up, and find a hobby. Seriously!

After reading through this thread, I wonder how many more Rod Ferrals will it take to get some of these mentally ill and self-deluded believers to realize they are not real blood-sucking vampires?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310298/

At best I see the "gods" as either servitors, thoughtforms or "astral" projections of the "upper" echelon themselves.

Sorry, you are sounding kooky to me, could you provide some proof for your mystical, spiritual, or junk scientific presuppositions?

And, in regards to faith healing, magic or vampirism, has anyone ever considered the power of the "placebo effect"? 😉

"Expectation is a powerful thing," says Robert DeLap, M.D., head of one of the Food and Drug Administration's Offices of Drug Evaluation. "The more you believe you're going to benefit from a treatment, the more likely it is that you will experience a benefit."--The Healing Power of Placebos by Tamar Nordenberg from http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/100_heal.html

http://skepdic.com/sheep-goat.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paranormal/

http://www.csicop.org/

Also, if you think you are a Vampire and seem to have an an aversion to sunlight then you have fallen prey to a "meme" (Richard Dawkins) and need to "get real".

http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/dracula.asp

"After reading through this thread, I wonder how many more Rod Ferrals will it take to get some of these mentally ill and self-deluded believers to realize they are not real blood-sucking vampires?"

If I'm not mistaken, the ToV has nothing to do with blood and is forbidden. Rod Ferral has nothing to do with the operations of the ToV.

This thread is drying up as far as staying focused on the subject of the ToV. It's like beating a dead horse.

Enough has been said, don't you think?

Enough has been said, don't you think?

Well, if you are bored with this thread then why are you still wasting your time here?

I suggest that you move on if you are bored. 😉

Not to worry about the thread drying up as I have been here since page 8 or so and it has given the appearance of drying up once or twice since then also. The thread is still very much alive, as is an Undead God, I promise.

Jo
It saddens me to see such arrogance and hatred spread by a diseased soul... You can't just let people be, as if we needed your opinion in deciding the things that we do, as if you believe yourself to better than the individual who merely wishes you the best. A man wishes you all things you desire in life and you stoop as low as to belittle him? I fear for you my friend... One day you'll find what you need, and I fear it may be a boot to the teeth. why must you keep talking when no one want's to here you attack someone or something else. It's funny, You even went to the extent to say that something doesn't exist... that we know LOL then what was your argument again? that's right you don't know. There was a fish recently found in the ocean that was thought to have been dead for over 15 million years, but it was merely hiding a mile deeper. What do you know of the things that hide deeper than your willing to look?
As I thought... nothing.

and for you recent posters vampirism is an actual disease. Get off peoples backs they do exist! some of them closer than you think. I bet you never knew there was a documented man in california who was over 200 years old.

fucking sheep

I would appreciate it if you fucking people would get an education about something before you decide to run your mouth. It's fucking sick! if it wasn't for people like you guys, always trying to crush someone, the world would be better for all of us. What do you get from crushing someones beliefs. You wouldn't appreciate it so much yourselves. Trust me, it can be done.

http://www.geocities.com/researchguide/drkporphyria.html

"Fucking sheep... trying to crush somebody's belief system!" Lol, wtf?

And yes, I'd be happy to have someone crush my beliefs when they were wrong. That's called refusing to be... SHEEP!

maybe you should watch Religilous. All religions are just flights of fancy and fanaticism. Why does one have to be greater than the other? It's alright for you to believe in raining frogs, and parting the seas, and one of the FIRST cases of the undead! Jesus Christ's rebirth. Yet it's completely asinine to believe in a blood drinking vampire who is 3 hundred years old, or to believe in a snake god or Bodhidharma! What about Methuselah? supposedly this man lived to be over 400 years old! It's OK to believe god just went *click* and everything was created, but the second you bring up evolution or the big bang your a damn Satan worshiper who will burn in hell for his beliefs. What if, oh i got it, what if god caused the big bang which started the chain of evolution which in turn made all of us! No, no, no! they say, we're all the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve and were all cousins. Hippocrates! I know! WE all must be blind and your the ones who have everything right. I bet you didn't know that most of the catholic bible was tailored to the popes beliefs NOT actually what was written in the bible. He used it as a control mechanism and edited to his needs. They burned Christians for god sakes, there own flesh and blood! Almost every family owns a copy of the King James bible, but what they don't know is that that's the bible ACCORDING to King James! If you want to know what the REAL bible says then I hope you have a time machine, and can speak and read one of the many dead languages it was written in. You ever heard of lost in translation, that applies here. Most languages don't even have words that others do. Such as there is no word in some cultures for retreat. Imagine how much of the bible was translated wrong. I don't want to follow what someone says but merely what I feel and believe as my OWN identity.

someone told me nemo wasnt the original founder of the TOV.

can anyone confirm? i had heard he is not lucas martel either. can anyone confiorm that?

The Chrishtian religon does the same thing when it comes to money, only they do it more often, and rip off more people on Saturdays and Sundays. So if you "believe not, test not."

@TOV Guy:

I believe that TOV once claimed it was founded by "Lucas Martel." I don't know if they still do or not. I'm pretty sure it's just an earlier alias for Nemo but he may have been a seperate person. In a thread someone posted a while back in this thread, an ex-Tov person said Nemo said Martel funded the TOV but that same person also said the story really didn't check out.

In my humblest of opinions I think the COS is harmed by its association with the TOV because of its mis-alignment of philosophy. The COS is representative, to me, of the religion (or non religion) that most closely resonates with truth in my heart. I bought a Vampire Bible to see what it was all about while considering membership with the COS. After reading it and after witnessing the staunch support the TOV philosophy gets at the COS I retracted from both because I realized that if one supported the other than I am philosophically aligned with neither.

I do like Nemo though. I've had some brief interaction with him and found him to be of the rare ilk who can be intellectually stimulating.

As for seeking a religion though, I'm done with it. I'm Church of One... whatever I believe is true is true to me.

I realized I wasn't very clear in my above post. I suspect that the TOV is somewhat less than truthful in its claims of what it can deliver. I also suspect that higher ranking folks at COS are awarded positions with TOV to make the lower echelons believe that the claims are valid though some of the higher echelon seem to avoid the topic of TOV altogether. To me it smacks of social experiment though I can't be sure.

If it is then I can understand how it would align with Satanic philosophy and can imagine those who receive the spoils laughing all the way to the bank. Either way, trickery and smoke and mirrors isn't something I condone even if it's easy to do. I have, in the past, equated Satanism with a much higher standard than that.... though Dr LaVey did love his tricks.

see it's much nicer now that we can drop the insults and the belief bashing. I'm glad that you can focus on being a church of one. for most it's simply not enough to believe in yourself and your values. Most people simply have a dying urge to have a purpose. It's almost sad especially when they find there "purpose" most think they have to belittle and berate every other belief because it is not there own. In some cases * cough cough Catholicism cough* they go so far as to exile and hunt down those who didn't believe in there way of life. Burning them at the stake and leaving them hang on a crucifix. I myself am rather agnostic / atheist and I've never been drawn toward stanism. Probably because of my christian upbringing. *Whom I have found to be among some of the biggest Hippocrates I have ever met* PEACE, LOVE, AND UNITY and all that fancy jazz to everyone but don't push your religion down my fucking throat or act like your all high and mighty. I mean come on! believe it or not, not everyone in the world thinks like an old man from the 1800's. We DON'T want a totalitarian government running Rampant kidnapping and killing "in The name of god"
I'm sorry for the long rant but fanatics and bible thumpers get me heated. They don't even belong here so why the hell be here? there is NOTHING wrong with being religious UNTIL you start pushing into someone Else's life who doesn't want you there.

Mr. Nobody-I resonate with your words, I don't believe that Dr. LaVey would condone the ToV riding his coat-tails as it is with the CoS right now. That is why, none of this was, as it is now, when Dr. LaVey was at the Helm. Dr. LaVey did love his tricks, I believe in a Lesser-Magic sort of way, I'm not sure that is the purpose of the ToV though. I don't buy into the "social-experiment" theory, as don't a few other "highly-respected" CoS members. That truth is apparent on this thread, with that I form my opinion.

Rupert-

Thanks for your insight. I'm just trying to make sense of the association in some sort of logical way but I'm unable to do it. If it's not a ruse then it must simply be a look the other way policy on the part of the priesthood and/or council because of Nemo's status at the COS.

Ah well, I've been a 'Satanist' for years and years without the benefit of the COS. I'm sure they've gotten along fine without me as well though I am a bit disappointed that I am unable to throw in my lot with the COS as it now stands. I've distanced myself from LTTD as well because the psychophancy there by clueless individuals is thicker than sludge.

Ah well,my TSB still has a place of honor in my nightstand as it likely always will.

Mr. Nobody, regardless of you affiliation or lack there of, your insight is appreciated here as the topic of who and why in relation to the ToV is still very much valid. Stay involved if you fancy.

I'm a COS member who can't figure this out either. LaVey was Atheist. He said it all the time. Gilmore coined the phrase "I-Theist". meaning "you" are the only god.

The TOV says that Jesus was a vampire. Really...I have a hard time getting this. i really do. I couldn't make this shit up.

How can one be Atheist, yet worship gods of the undead?

Now I'm not the smartest person you are ever going to meet so maybe I'm missing the big picture here...But I'd love for someone from the "higher up" portion of the clergy to comment on this. --CG

Over 50 postings ago someone wrote:

"There are some who are serious in their investigation and analysis of Nemo's intentions.
Too bad the focus often strays from the ToV into lame speculations, alleged 'facts' and rants that has nothing to do with constructive inquiry or the ToV at all.
Maybe someone who was deep into the ToV and has backed out can shed light on the hoax angle of that religion. Until that time, we will be submitted to nothing but speculation and annoying crap that others post here."

It's over 50 postings later and I can count on one hand the postings that pertain to this thread.
I especially like the "ToV experts" here. The more they post, the more they contradict themselves.
I especially like the guy who said that he wrote to Michael Aquino. Then later on he denies the content of what Aquino initially wrote back to him.

COS Guy-There is at least one here who has participated in this discussion, who I would consider to be from the "top-portion" of the "Clergy". Glad to see another CoS member raising question about the "relationship", welcome to the discussion.

Maher -

Those who are in the fold at TOV won't comment because they are bound to secrecy. Those who may have left the fold are perhaps embarrassed by the association or have friends who they don't want to expose.

I don't expect the content of this thread to go any deeper than it already has. If loyalty were a river it would run wide and deep in the valleys of the left hand path.

All I can say is I joined, got the Vampire Bible, read it, and it didn't reconcile with anything I would hold as truth. That's certainly not to say that it's not valuable to others or that I somehow missed the bus on the whole thing (which is possible). Confirming or denying my suspicions in an official capacity no longer holds interest for me. Whatever is going on is going on outside my realm of understanding and is likely to stay that way.

I'll leave the contemplation of confusion to others as my interests at this time simply lie elsewhere.

My only advice (though leaving it is committing a Satanic sin) is to say that if the Satanic Bible truly resonates with you, the Vampire Bible will not.

If you want to e-mail me put your name up and where you found my yahoo. thank you.

I think that vampire sights that are made should be made for vampires and humans. Not only on

@Mahler:

Maybe you should read my two posts a little more carefully. They don't contradict. I did clarify and elaborate to avoid misunderstandings like the one you've apparently made. Maybe it was too many words for you.

You certainly haven't added anything of worth.

I'm a member of the CoS and I have been having dialogue for some time with a long standing clergyman within the church, in reference to the Temple of the Vampire. He personally sees the ToV as a joke, but he respects the right of a Satanist to also belong to other groups. This idea alone has lead to many, often heated debates between us.

He tells me that the allure of a secret society that involves metaphysical mumbo jumbo is attractive to some people. Being sworn to secrecy is the Big Thing about being a member of the ToV.
I suppose that "I have a secret" is exciting and fun.
My main point against the ToV is the idea of blind faith. The idea of believing without thinking. The ToV scripture itself admits it is a mixture of "fact and fancy". To me it is a mixture of predetermined dogma (fact) and bullshit(fancy). Not too much room left for the Satanist is there?

Without getting long winded I will say that the ToV is amusing. Too bad some CoS members take it so seriously. And if they do take it seriously they should not consider themselves adherents of Satanic thought. Just go and play vampire and rule the world.

I totally agree with Mr. Nobody:


"My only advice is to say that if the Satanic Bible truly resonates with you, the Vampire Bible will not."

To me, that puts everything in a nutshell.

Anybody up for starting a Secret Society of our own?

The secret, secret society of secrets! for Secrets!

I now realize that the Temple itself places the burden of proof on the skeptic to prove and/or disprove its unfalsifiable claims.

This is about as silly as Christians who tithe, avoid sinning out of fear of God and are altruistic (without discrimination) so they can make sure they are guaranteed to go to Heaven and not burn in Hell.

I remember hearing many members of the Temple rely on

So it is done....The Birth of ToM....

Private you nailed it. The way they have their "disclaimer" setup it then becomes almost IMPOSSIBLE to call them on it!

If you say "Vampire are not real" and call them on it they can just say "Yeah they are...Or maybe they are just a metaphor".

So it's a great logical trap for a believer. The TOV can now make any claim and not really have to stand by it because they can just change the meaning or the definitions on the fly. It would take a huge amount of contradictions to really make something stick against them at leas to their believers lol.

It's actually brilliant.

And once one spends enough time in their clutches it becomes easier and easier for them to manipulate you. Which is probably one of the reasons they make you pay so much money now and spread it out so that you have to pay the monthly fee to advance!

I am SERIOUSLY considering starting a Temple based on their teachings. I'll just charge less money.

Omen

Game over.
You're beating a dead horse.
Lock the thread before it's inhabited by a bunch of stand up comics trying to act intelligent.
Bye.

"Their present sales plan is as follows:

1. A person can become a member by purchasing The Vampire Bible for $35.00 (hard cover) or $20.00 (soft cover). The Vampire Bible numbers around 20 pages. Much like the Church of Satan and its supposedly elite ranks, anyone is free to become a Lifetime Member and carry the ToV Membership Card so long as their money is green.

2. The member must now pay $100.00 annually for Active Membership. Active Membership will grant the member the ability to get graded, purchase The Vampire Predator Bible and carry the title of Vampire Initiate.

3. The Vampire Predator Bible (book 2 of 5) and the subsequent Vampire Bibles use to be sold for $25.00 each in the past. It is possible that figure has risen or fallen by a few dollars. After purchasing The Vampire Predator Bible the member can have an application for the degree of Vampire Predator graded for the price of $25.00.

4. Here or elsewhere in the course of the member's membership he or she may have purchased the official ToV ring or medallion for $50.00 each. The member may have also purchased several issues of their monthly newsletter titled Lifeforce which is sold for $10.00 an issue. Each issue usually numbers between 5 and 8 printed pages. The paper utilized for Lifeforce is basic 20 lb. computer paper. The annual journal called Bloodlines is sold for $50.00. Bloodlines usually numbers 20 - 30 pages."
Pt.1

**This was taken from: http://www.petitiononline.com/VampCULT/petition.html

Pt.2

5. Moving along, the member will be encouraged to achieve the degree of Vampire Priest/Priestess. To do so he or she must purchase The Vampire Priesthood Bible. After studying the book the member will have to pay a $25.00 application fee to enter the Priesthood of Ur and sign an oath swearing their loyalty to the group.

6. Having achieved the degree of Vampire Priest/Priestess the member will be encouraged to attain the next degree of Vampire Sorcerer/Sorceress. To do so he or she must purchase The Vampire Sorcery Bible. After studying the book the member will have to pay a $25.00 application fee.

7. If it has been over a year since the member acquired Active Membership, he or she will have to again pay $100 to sustain that level of membership.

8. Having achieved the degree of Vampire Sorcerer/Sorceress the member will be encouraged to attain the next degree of Vampire Adept. To do so he or she must purchase The Vampire Adept Bible. After studying the book the member will have to pay a $25.00 application fee.

The above sales plan was for a member who was involved for over one year actively. According to the outline above the member will have given the ToV $400.00 - $585.00 or more over that period. Every time an additional year of Active Membership is added also add $100.00 to the sum. Given that the quality of their materials is appallingly low, the ToV's profit margin must be incredible. While the revenue generated is pennies compared to Christian cults it is still substantial in light of the value of their goods.

**This was taken from: http://www.petitiononline.com/VampCULT/petition.html

Those prices are no longer correct.

It's only $100 *IF* you pay for a full year, otherwise it is $120. Not pro-rated of course.

And to get the grades, the fee is $50, not $25.

Why do I have the song "Money" from "Pink Floyd" in my head?

BDBM

Game over.
You're beating a dead horse.
Lock the thread before it's inhabited by a bunch of stand up comics trying to act intelligent.
Bye.

Did something we say bother you?

Sorry, the game is not over.

And what are some of the posters here not being intelligent about?

If you are going to sling insults then you need to be more specific and less elusive.

How can stupid people learn anything if you don't enlighten us 'ole enlightened one?

I issue you the challenge to change our minds and get us on the right track.

Are you going to just tell us we are "fools" or "sheep" for not believing in the Temple with nothing to back up your sarcasm?

Who is the pretentious fool in this case?

Let me guess, we just don't know or understand the so-called reality of your existence. Wow! That's one way to state the obvious in this thread... 😉

Boo Hoo! I am sorry your kind is misunderstood (rolling eyes). Prove it and quit wasting our time bragging on here with your ambiguous condecension.

Hell, you sound like a Christian acting like us sinners just can't wrap our heads around the reality of Jesus. Prove it or shut the Hell up!

"The masses rush to mortgage their lives to purchase pre-packaged symbols, which supposedly proclaim their freedom and individuality to the rest of the herd. Those who are truly aware laugh at the spectacle of people who actually think that they have evolved to be unique by purchasing a particular brand of running shoes or a sports utility vehicle."

"Never underestimate people's tendency to identify with something deemed superior by an authority figure in an attempt at self-elevation."

Oh yes.....Good Morning! HS!

If you come across a site claiming or implying some connection to the Church of Satan, or endorsement by the Church of Satan, yet they are not linked via this site, then you, gentle browser, are being had. Caveat Emptor!

Notice, that the ToV is on the source sheet for the CoS website?

see http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Sources.html

According to the CoS, ToV members are not "being had"?

Why would they caution members against "being had" yet promote the ToV?

"Why would they (CoS) caution members against "being had" yet promote the ToV?"

You got the "vampires" who "don't drink blood" and the "Satanists" who "don't believe in Satan" All in all, they are actually quite perfect for each other.

The main reason for my previous posting was because some were implying that some in the CoS hierarchy were in the know that the ToV was a scam and a joke (see a few postings back) yet they warn their members against being had.

Huh? I must not be getting something???

Yet I think deceiving your own members could backfire and is disrespectful to the members and to the preservation of the philosophy and religion.

If I had it my way the ToV would be ended today because it is an insult to Satanism--period.

If it wasn't then concerned Satanists would not be complaining in this thread and these postings would not have been made.

Also, I feel the ToV makes the CoS look bad and is causing people to not to take the CoS as serious with this ToV nonsense.

I am disappointed and disgusted with it all.

When will this nonsense end...

I curse the ToV from the bottom of my heart.

I came across this tidbit:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/goth/vc/vc00.htm

It mentions Vampires and Gilmore.

WTH

I see the need to point out, that the House Kheperu Vampire Codex aka the Psychic Vampire Codex has no relation whatsoever with the ToV and their Vampire Bible.

In fact, unlike the V-bible I found some extremely useful techniques in the codex. And it's free.

Sand,
I just found it odd that there was Gilmore, again, engaged in the whole Vampire thing. It wasn't to impugn the Codex or anyone/anything associated with it.

I just find it funny that "Capt. I-Theist" seems to have an afinity for Vampires 😊

WTH