|
How Did Jesus Really Die?????
|
Posted By:
X
in McKinney, TX
Jun 08, 2005
|
Some people believe that Jesus Didn't die on the cross....Some speculate that He was so dehidrated that the blood flow slowed down so he didn't bleed to death and was awoken by Mary after he was placed in Tomb simply by giving him water....
A new scientific study shows something else. A blood clot???? Here is the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8139434/
<b>Update: No new comments can be added to this thread. </b>
|
Comments
|
Page 3 of 4 pages < 1 2 3 4 > |
Larry
|
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 | 04:00 PM
Why would I do this? It |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 | 04:08 PM
Larry, I thank you for your intelligent and well thought-out posts.
That was all I wanted to say. It comes as a pleasant change. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 | 04:19 PM
Larry, that was a very good post, and I appreciate it.
One quick question, as I don't really have time for more.
Regarding your son and free will - If your son tried to harm, or even kill another child, would you simply try to guide him to the correct path, or would you take an active roll and stop him? It's one thing to not want to dominate a person's every action - to let them make their own way, and it's quite another to stand by while that person commits evil and go 'tsk, tsk'. You teach a child by reasoning with them when possible, but you directly intervene when necessary.
If God really exists and allows evil to be committed in His name every day, then he isn't worthy of worship, in my opinion. I'd rather go to Hell for eternity then give my love to someone who doesn't deserve it. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 | 04:58 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that the Christian God is a terrible one, as frightening as the ancient aztec Gods ever were. After all, he threatens even his faithful with eternal torment, should they slip up a second before they die! I think you agree no human being who has done anything close to tormenting someone deserves to be lauded, so why would we praise a God who damns people forever? |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 06:24 AM
Larry said:
"I fear I may well be out of my IQ league in this place. (I especially liked the |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 07:12 AM
WoW Larry......That is a change of pace, actually seemed like you were sharing instead of telling or explaining. I like that. I would probably benifit from picking up on some of those good habits. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 07:21 AM
That is the exact kind of frame of mind I wished more Christians (as well as others) had. I know I went off track a long time ago because I always felt cornered, trying to defend myself from my family and others on why I do not want to be a Christian. I only studied other religions to perhaps shed a little light on myself on where it stems from and to find simularities in each one. I do get all caught up in disecting religion, maybe a little too much. |
LaMa
in Europe
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 07:46 AM
Larry, your contribution to this thread is one of the most sincere and tolerant of all so far. You have my respect man! |
Larry
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 11:07 AM
Boo |
Larry
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 11:08 AM
Charybdis,
Good question. Well spoken. I |
Larry
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 11:14 AM
Citizen
No human deserves to be lauded in any shape form or fashion. There may be humans I like and even admire but I would not praise or worship them. That is reserved for God |
Larry
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 03:15 PM
All...
I didn't really want to make another post so fast---I don't want to be a postaholic. But, I've got to make this "all in one" post just to acknowledge the most recent notes posted to me.
Let me just say...with no false modesty---I'm truly humbled and appreciative of your words. I promise you---what I've read was not the reaction or replies I expected. I think I forgot that decent people (despite beliefs) will return dignity and respect most of the time when they are treated equally. Still, to say I was blown away is putting it mildly...
I'm the one that should be saying "Wow"...my keyboard fails me to express my thoughts any better than that.
Ok, I'll make this one short(er).
Cranky---you're witty. I love that. Plus, your "Celebrity Afterlife" thing was cute. "George Washington, though he'd never seen baseball before, has become quite an adept outfielder it would seem" For some reason, I found that---and most of the "reports"---funny as could be!
Stephen---thank you as well. I understand completely where you're coming from as far as people pressuring you. That describes my early life in a tiny Baptist church I grew up in. Those folks had the best of intentions but I still recall the wife of our minister looking me in the eye and saying. "You KNOW if you died today you'd go to HELL, don't you LARRY???" and upon telling me that she gave me this scathing look that scared the daylights out of me. I was able to mumble a weak "yes" and she left it at that. God, (and her, bless her heart) intimidated me to the point of dreaded fear.
Man, I'll never presume to try and "teach". I was quite serious when I said this group,at the very least, is my intellectual match. And, in many cases---my superiors. Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough to be a "teacher".
When asked a direct question, I'll try to answer as best I can and if I don't have an answer I'll just say so.I will indeed try to share my life and experiences as is appropriate. But, I would never look down my nose at anybody or try to force feed my views.
I still don't understand how I ended up at this website from my "MIG Pilot" search...but...I'm glad that I did.
Thanks.
Larry |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 05:52 PM
Larry said:
"Cranky---you're witty. I love that. Plus, your "Celebrity Afterlife" thing was cute. "George Washington, though he'd never seen baseball before, has become quite an adept outfielder it would seem" For some reason, I found that---and most of the "reports"---funny as could be!"
Thanks for the kind words. As for the Celebrity Afterlife Report things, you should pass your comments on to the guy who runs it. |
Creator
|
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 | 11:55 PM
Faith said:
"and by the way Jesus was definatly not a trouble maker! He did nothing no sin the only time he sinned was when he took our sins apoun himself to give us the choice of going to heaven or to hell".
He was a trouble maker(activist) in the eyes of Roman Emperors.At that time they were considered to be living gods.When Jesus declared himself as the son of OTHER GOD,he became a threat to their authority.
I am speaking from historical point of view,not religious one. |
Creator
|
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 | 12:10 AM
And Yes! There is God.But this(these) entity(s) has(ve) nothing to do with any of the organized religions on this planet. |
Lindsay
Member
|
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 | 02:24 PM
im back for one day before i have to go to camp and i havent gotten to do more than skim over the last few posts...but i have read the others.
larry thank you for keeping the right attitude on here. that is the way that christians should spread the word of God and when i first came on here i didnt plan on engaging in such a pointless debate. i do realize the way i have been comenting in this thread was completely wrong and i would like to apologize for allowing pride and my love of debate getting the best of me. Larry you have helped me pull mind from the gutter and realize that God was telling me to just be humble. i want ot thank you for being the ideal role model for young christians. im very happy to meet people such as yourself..i can feel how strong God is in your life and it warms my heart. if some poeple do not want to believe in God then i cannot make them and debating is useless. but i would like to use what i did as an example.. though my debating was in the name of god it was not in the will of God just as many crimes of christians have been. im sure God is not pleased in my lack of humbleness and stuborness but he will forgive me and it was a mistake on my part not his.
im not sure if i will be posting on here or not after this but unless i am defending something for God im going to try and not debate.
i would like to say that hell is not our punishment but our desicion. jesus died so that we could be forgiven and go to heaven because he knows how terrible hell is. he doesnt want us to go to hell but God will not have sin heaven or it will end up like the earth did. so if we dont allow God to wash away our sins then we are basically walking in to hell. if someone offered a homeless person a million dollars and he rejected the offer then it would not be the persons fault that the man remained homeless. it was his desicion to not accept the money.
God does everything for the good of the universe. he has not wiped out evil because there is a time that would be better to do it than now. im not going ot go very indepth with this but sometimes waiting to do something is better than just doing it. another thing is that God is not going to bypass our freewill and force evil out of our hearts. the only way evil can be pushed from our hearts is for us to alow it. he cannot be forced. we have freewill. people murder and rape and do all these horrible things because the choose to.
God is most certianly worthy of your love and i have many reasons why but this is long already and i need to pack
lol Larry i do believe that God just wanted you to come on this site...i found this site on google to when i looking up something for one of my friends who was cutting and this site came up lol so i came across it in an odd way to
goodbye if i dont come on here anymore |
Larry
|
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 | 10:02 PM
Lindsay |
Creator
|
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 | 03:13 AM
The problem is,that we all on different level of understanding,who(what) God is.
Let's call him,her,them a(the) Superior Being(s)).
Whoever was responsible for the Big Bang,has(had) very little to do with us(human beings-earthlinks)(I mean-directly).
The Universe is too big.
And we know ,that we live on the outskirts of the Universe.
So,according to all this,the biblical god is more likely is not the Creator of the Universe.
If you ask me,what my opinion would be:
1.We were brought to this planet from few different planets,according to our race.
2.We are closely being watched by those,who brought us here.
3.The beings,that brought us here,are portrayed as the Aliens(UFOs).
4.If you call me crazy,I really don't care.
Enjoy your sanity! |
Justin Smith
|
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 | 09:16 AM
I have a small little point to make.
Under the prevaling roman religions the crusifiction lasted for weeks. It lasted untill the body was fully decomposed. This was done, because the roman's belived that if they body decomposed befor being buryed the soul would never rest. It was the ultimate punishment for them... not because of the pain, but because of the ever-lasting punishment.
The bible simply dosn't mention this little bit of history. That to me sugusts that atleast those parts of the bible were writen by someone who only knew the story, but didn't know anything about roman customs... aka, someone who lived after the fall of the roman empire. Someone 200+ years after Jesus died.
Also, it is now know the first 3 books of the new testimin were all fragments of the same work. Since the bible was assembled many centurys after the death of jesus...
As a historical document the Bible has many problems. As a religious document, it's history makes me question every tennent and belife in it. I think it has a good message... but I have a hard time with any system of belife that encurages it's followers to close there eyes. |
Justin Smith
|
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 | 05:28 PM
(I posted the above without readingn the entire thread... I apologise for being so out of the topic) |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 01:19 AM
Creator said:
"The Universe is too big.
And we know ,that we live on the outskirts of the Universe.
So,according to all this,the biblical god is more likely is not the Creator of the Universe.
If you ask me,what my opinion would be:
1.We were brought to this planet from few different planets,according to our race.
2.We are closely being watched by those,who brought us here.
3.The beings,that brought us here,are portrayed as the Aliens(UFOs).
4.If you call me crazy,I really don't care.
Enjoy your sanity!"
And the evidence for ANY of this is...? |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 01:20 AM
Are you sure your real name isn't L. Ron Creator? |
Creator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 03:11 AM
Sorry Cranky,I am not into Scientology. |
Creator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 03:14 AM
I am an agnostic. |
Creator
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 04:41 AM
In the late 80-s there was a music software called "Creator"(Notator) for Atari ST.I used to work with "Creator" to produce music . |
crankymediaguy
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 02:31 PM
Creator said:
"Sorry Cranky,I am not into Scientology."
I didn't think you were. I was suggesting that your "theories" were as wacky and unsupported as Hubbard's.
That doesn't make you a bad guy, mind you. |
vince
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 10:23 PM
I'm getting really sick of the world being run by morons and nutjobs.
I say we rise up against them. Religion must die, and we have to kill it.
One braindead fucker at a time. I'm gonna go burn some Buybulls now.
Think about this.. if there were only 2 of every animal... and noah and his family.. that means.. well for one thing, the amount of weight it would be on a boat for 2 of ever species on earth would NEVER be able to float.. not to mention there wouldn't be any food for anyone.
Think of all the inbreeding. ALL of the different versions of dogs and cats are supposed to be from 2 parents?? BULLSHIT... you need over 30 different genetically diverse individuals in a breeding population just to keep them from all dying out from genetic disorders.
And does that mean that Noah and his family practiced like several hundred generations of incest to get everyone back to normal??
Isn't that kind of sick? I say it's bullshit.. utter bullshit.
And so help me, you religious fucknuts should all shoot yourselves in the head now if you actually believe that crap. DUMBASSES! |
vince
|
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 10:28 PM
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=62851
click there by the way to see some anti religious thingy. ne religious people watch this and tell me how ur god could be real. |
Larry
|
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 | 02:56 PM
Vince,
I usually try to respond to those that post to me. You didn |
vince
|
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 | 05:22 PM
well its just that some of my older family members spent thier entire life worshipin this god and studyin the bible. in the end what did it do for them? i havn't heard a single logical thing of proof that god exists. lets say somebody believed in god because his mother was suddenly cured of cancer or something, well his mother was saved, good job god but why did u let tones of people die in the tsunami? i just find it fustrating seeing people waste every sunday and countless hours praying to some thing that might not even exist. It also makes me mad seeing how the church BRAINWASHES millions of children by telling them of how much god loves them. if god loves all the little children, as churches usually say, then why did he kill 3 year olds in a giant flood? what did they do? the bible says that everybody was evil...how can little 2 year old girls and boys be evil? one of my aunts recently died, she was a god lover. why didn't god save her? im not bitter im just mad that she wasted all her time and had nothing to show for it. |
joseph
|
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 | 07:02 PM
To deny Jesus you would have to deny such people as Plato, Homer, and Ceasar. <a href="http://www.carm.org/evidence/trustbible.htm">Plato</a>trustbible.htm. Here is a link showing how few copies of these and others are yet no one doubts them. And most of these are hundreds of years after their existence the closest being 500 years. With Jesus their are over 24,000 copies! The earliest is within 100 years. To doubt His existence is crazy. Why would this many books be written about a humble peasant carpenter? Why has it been proven that a group of people called Christians arose in the mid 1st century that DIED for their religion. Were they dying for a myth? I think not. You should read a Bible. Their are 60 major bible prophecies concerning Jesus and 240 minor ones. There are some showing the exact date of his arrival as messiah, ones that show what town he was to born in, and Isaiah 53 even describes his death. All of these books and prohpecies were written hundres of years before his birth. Jesus existed. He is the Son of God. Blasphemy is not funny. <a href="http://www.carm.org/evidence/trustbible.htm">Plato</a> |
vince
|
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 | 08:57 PM
easy, they were brainwashed like you.if jesus really loved the little children, and you then why did he send millions to hell? why did he let peoples die in the tsunami?
a wise man told me don't argue with fools, because people from a distance can't tell who is who.
if ya name the song that was in ill give u a cookie : ) |
crankymediaguy
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 | 12:47 AM
joseph said:
"To deny Jesus you would have to deny such people as Plato, Homer, and Ceasar."
In all likelihood, at least some of those three believed the Earth was flat. Should we agree with them about that? The Ceasars certainly believed in multiple Roman gods. Using your "logic," you therefore must believe in them, too, right?
"Platotrustbible.htm. Here is a link showing how few copies of these and others are yet no one doubts them. And most of these are hundreds of years after their existence the closest being 500 years. With Jesus their are over 24,000 copies!"
What does that mean? It seems incomprehensible.
"The earliest is within 100 years. To doubt His existence is crazy. Why would this many books be written about a humble peasant carpenter?"
Uh, because some people believe him to be the Son of God. That, however, in no way PROVES that Jesus WAS the Son of God. A great many books have been written about a lot of things which simply aren't true, or are unprovable.
"Why has it been proven that a group of people called Christians arose in the mid 1st century that DIED for their religion. Were they dying for a myth? I think not. You should read a Bible."
Your mistake is in thinking that we skeptics don't know what the Bible says. Wrong. We doubt the divinity of Jesus and/or the existance of God in part precisely BECAUSE of the nonsense in the Bible. FYI, many people have died for many different religions other than Christianity.
"Their are 60 major bible prophecies concerning Jesus and 240 minor ones. There are some showing the exact date of his arrival as messiah, ones that show what town he was to born in, and Isaiah 53 even describes his death."
Prove it. The Bible says many things, a lot of which are simply physically impossible. Talking animals, anyone?
"All of these books and prohpecies were written hundres of years before his birth. Jesus existed. He is the Son of God. Blasphemy is not funny."
Has it even occurred to you that at least some of the "prophecies" were somewhat generic but after the time of Jesus were interpreted to refer to J.C.?
As for your last sentence, I happen to think that a lot of blasphemy is hysterically funny. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 | 08:04 AM
It all boils down to "God exists because the Bible says so, and we have to believe the Bible because it's the word of God". The flaws of circular logic were understood thousands of years ago, yet today this is the main argument people still seem to come up with here. It's shocking how little people understand or are willing to learn. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 | 08:10 AM
Remember, the bible was printed 200 years after the fact, and was used to scare people into Christianity.....Sooooo, most became Christians because their rulers forced it on them, so thus, when the common person was actually allowed to view the bible after a couple hundred years of it's being out, more copies were made. |
Larry
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 | 02:08 PM
Vince,
I'm really trying to shorten the content of my posts. I've already posted one that I call my "War and Peace" novel due to the length of it.
I posted my "intro post" here on page 5 and a few notes on page 6 & 7 of this thread. I don't want to hog the forum by recreating those posts. If you'd care to go back and read them please do so---but, I don't flatter myself by saying I'm all that "read worthy." But, again, I'll try to not recreate those things I've already said (too much so anyway)
Proof? It's the thing we ALL want I suppose. Solid, indisputable proof---one way or the other. Is God there or not? It's human nature to
feel that way...we're even told in the Bible that Thomas---a man that walked with Jesus and saw the miracles he preformed still doubted
Christ's resurrection. He said he would not believe until he could see and touch his body...
That proof will never happen. We cannot see and touch. It cannot be. Belief in God is faith based...it comes from within via God's
Spirit. There is nothing I can say that will ever convince anyone of this thing I believe so desperately to be fact. As I've said in previous notes---if I had proof beyond any shadow of a doubt then my faith would be empty and meaningless.
As to your aunt...I'm very sorry to hear of her passing. You say she was a "God lover"? I'll tell you this...if she truly was a Christian that loved God---she would tell you her life was not a waste...this I'm absolutely certain of. Her life was full of wonderful works and value and she had a peace that passes all understanding that went with her. Why did she pass? I suppose God just said "Come Home..." We'll all face that some day...
I said this before...
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there is no God. Maybe all the prayers and petitions I lift up fall on empty space. If so...I'll go to my grave and
have eternal nothingness. Nothing lost...nothing gained.
But, I ask you this...and I'd urge you to consider it. What if I'm right?
Vince,...even though you wanted me dead...you still don't seem like all that bad of a guy. I think you are angry and I think maybe you're actually searching for something like I was so many years ago. If I were you I'd be asking one question---"Ok, what if this goofy guy IS right?" There are many that don't believe...but, there are also many that do. I'd have to consider the possibility that they might know something I didn't...and, I'd have to try my best to really, truly find out for myself.
Have you ever truly...given God a chance? Or, have you always shut Him out because your "human mind" tells you He cannot exist?
I'll close with this...
You didn't ask my advice but I'm going to tell you this much. I'd urge you to maybe read the Gospel of John. Read it all...and, do your best to not read it with a closed, cold heart. Maybe just say something like...."OK God, I don't know if you exist or not...but, I'm going to give you a fair chance...a true, fair chance. If you're there I want to believe, but you've got to help me"
Read it from start to finish...and just don't let your heart say "NO!" without at least giving it a chance to say...yeah...maybe. Just maybe. |
crankymediaguy
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 | 02:51 PM
Charybdis said:
"It all boils down to "God exists because the Bible says so, and we have to believe the Bible because it's the word of God". The flaws of circular logic were understood thousands of years ago, yet today this is the main argument people still seem to come up with here. It's shocking how little people understand or are willing to learn."
About one minute before I read your words, I was thinking about circular reasoning as it applies to religion. You beat me to talking about this. Good on ya!
Yes, you're absolutely right. We keep pointing out the flaws in the arguments for the Bible, etc. and they respond by repeating the same flawed arguments over and over.
The problem, as I see it, is that believers do NOT start with a blank slate. They begin with the belief, then look for "proof" to back it up. This is intellectually dishonest.
The rational thing to do is to say "I will make no assumptions about the existance or non-existance of God, look at the evidence as it exists and then, and only then, draw my conclusion." The problem with that, of course, is if you do that, you realize pretty quickly that ALL of the "evidence" for the existance of God is stuff like circular reasoning, etc.
I'm sorry, believers, but your inability to conceive of a world without God is NOT "proof" of His existance. |
vince
|
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 | 10:24 PM
i did ask god 2 save my aunt. and if god wanted her with him then wats the point of askin him anything? |
Plasma
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 06:14 AM
i have read most of da posts here.
(& perused da lengthy ones such as from Larry)
it's amazing... this discussion.
one side wants proof.
& da other doesn't supply it.
da gal can't remember her name (sorry), is beyond reasonning.
Larry then arrives, does his research, thereafter posts with da best sort of approach to convince.
which is basically da system used 4 global conversion.
what really bugs me, is this:
religion is used by many sects,
to change commoners (ironic, isn't it?) way of thinking,
so that a goal may be achieved.
as to da way Jesus died,
da answer is simple.
we don't know.
becoz, all that was written,by Jesus' admirers, and then redrafted,
and thereafter rewritten.....
leaves one with absolutely nothing. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 07:41 AM
Thats another way to look at it.....But then Christians would argue with this, which is very weak. My parents always say this:
"God appointed certain people to write the bible, thats why it is the truth."
And there you have it, all summed up in 1 little sentence. GIVE ME A FREAK'n BREAK!!!
Who ever sold people on the bible had to have been THE best salesman in the world....I sure as hell couldn't push a product like that. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 09:33 AM
vince...You need to remember that this particular thread is not about your bum luck with religion. It's about the medical explanation of a death...Would you care to contribute to the topic at hand?? |
Larry
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 03:13 PM
Vince,
Many years ago I was in love with an amazingly beautiful blonde named Debbie. She was my world. My universe revolved around her. She was the most amazing person I |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 06:27 PM
Larry said:
"Vince, I |
Peter
in Melbourne, Australia
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 07:15 PM
The article, as I read it, says Jesus died from a blood clot and not from asphyxiation. On that point I don't see why there should be such a fuss (apart from the medical debate).
As a Christian I have to ask if it's really necessary for me to believe in the Resurection to believe in God. My faith is not conditional on Jesus actually dying on the cross.
So I don't mind if there is debate about this. It would be interesting to find evidence of what really happened |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 07:17 PM
Yes, those people who didn't want their whole communities to be destroyed by a tsunami simply didn't understand their own needs.
Christians must suggest that God's moral attributes transcend those of man, because there is no way we can make the analogize God as a man without him seeming horribly wicked. |
Peter
in Melbourne, Australia
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 07:25 PM
Citizen Premier said:
"Yes, those people who didn't want their whole communities to be destroyed by a tsunami simply didn't understand their own needs."
I'm sorry but I find that attitude to be abhorrent. It's the sort of statement that makes me question whether or not I still want to call myself a Christian. |
Larry
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 08:16 PM
Cranky,
When I first came into this thread I pretty much stated my views and beliefs. I said up front that I could not supply proof of God to anybody. (which was the theme of the thread when I entered---proof vs. faith) All I could do is share my aforementioned views and beliefs as I could. Share, not force |
Jenny
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 08:43 PM
It seems to me that some on here are trying to say that if there's no proof that there's a god, then a person has no right to believe in god..I personally don't really care whether there's a god or not, but let's just have tolerance for others, okay? People have a right to believe in a god if they want to.. it only gets testy when one tries to pressure their beliefs on to another.. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 09:46 PM
Peter, I don't know if you saw the irony of my statement, or if you are critisizing it. I don't think many Christians think the south asians deserved to be killed, but if pressed they would admit God was responsible and that it would be for some greater good.
And no, I am not Christian. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 10:10 PM
Jenny, you're right, but the problem is, we have politicians who take religious precident for their actions, forcing us to challenge their religion. Perhaps someday we'll simply be able to insist upon seperation between church and state, and not attack religious interpretations, but not today. Until then, religious confrontation is inevitable, because we have to much to lose to let the ideology of our rulers to go unchecked. |
Peter
in Melbourne, Australia
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 10:14 PM
Citizen Premier
Sorry, I didn't realise you were trying to be ironic. I just took it at face value so I was criticising it. But if I knew you were being ironic I would've taken it differently and I'm sorry if I offended you.
But I'm not like most Christians (I've read books by Bishop John Shelby Spong). I don't believe God is in the habit of influencing physical events on Earth. |
Plasma
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 12:18 AM
"Jesus |
crankymediaguy
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 12:49 AM
Jenny said:
"It seems to me that some on here are trying to say that if there's no proof that there's a god, then a person has no right to believe in god..I personally don't really care whether there's a god or not, but let's just have tolerance for others, okay? People have a right to believe in a god if they want to.. it only gets testy when one tries to pressure their beliefs on to another.."
Unless I just missed it, I haven't seen anyone here say that someone doesn't have the RIGHT to believe in God. As far as I'm concerned, an American has the right to believe in any damn thing they want. That is completely separate from my personal opinion of what they believe. I think what's been debated is the rationality of believing in God.
I agree with you that it certainly becomes testy when one tries to press their beliefs on other people. By definition, of course, evangelical Christians do just that. That they do NOT have the right to do, especially when tax dollars are involved. |
Plasma
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 01:47 AM
i agree with what u r saying,
in no way am i criticising what anyone else believes in.
it's just that,
don't try to convince others, especially when they don't want 2.
& more especially when one's argument, doesn't hold water. |
Amazon
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 03:06 AM
By definition,God is the entity resposible for creating the Universe,according to the religious scripts.
Let's forget about all of this for a moment.
Somebody still did create the Universe!
You don't have to be religious,just an open-minded person to understand,that this is a fact.
I share Creator's point of view. |
Cranky Media Guy
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 03:59 AM
Amazon said:
"By definition,God is the entity resposible for creating the Universe,according to the religious scripts.
Let's forget about all of this for a moment.
Somebody still did create the Universe!
You don't have to be religious,just an open-minded person to understand,that this is a fact."
Says who? Even if you accept this point of view, you are still left with the problem of figuring out who created God? Why is it considered "better" to believe in a self-created God than a self-created Universe? They seem equally problematic to me. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 07:44 AM
It's easier for them to except a GOD because then it gets summed up into an easy answer....If people want a real God, what is wrong with believing that the life giving energy itself could be the GOD they are looking for. I strongly believe that all "GOD" is, is just the life giving force in the universe.....not an entity. The energy that exist,the same energy that gives us life right down to the energy it takes to snap your fingers, which as anyone who has ever used a battery, must agree, does exist. Why do people insist God has to be an entity....People used to believe, to this very day, that their concience is actually god, when infact their minds are trying to judge right from wrong...... |
Larry
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 08:48 AM
Plasma,
You say to Jenny that you do not criticize others for their beliefs? Yet, you call mine |
Larry
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 08:50 AM
Cranky,
Ok, this thread is already way off topic so I hesitate to even ask this |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
|
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 | 01:24 PM
Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from the fact that it falls in with our instinctual desires. |
|
Page 3 of 4 pages < 1 2 3 4 > |
|
Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.
|
