The Museum of Hoaxes
sylvia browne
Posted By:
padego
Apr 04, 2005
 Just thought I'd peruse Ms. Browne's site for news of the pope, oddly theres no mention....

http://www.sylvia.org/home/index.cfm
Category: Prophecy-Psychic; Replies: 765

Comments
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Kay R.
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 | 04:38 PM
Well I have never seen or heard Sylvia Browne, and never heard of her until I googled "psychics", But I can't help deny the fact that these abilities are real. I'm not saying I'm psychic, but lately I have been having all kinds of predictions. Kind of like deja vu on steroids. I mean it has come to a point where I am expecting it to happen, then it happens. I actually see it happen, in dreams or just by thinking. Then I see if it happens or not. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I will see an older lady drop her groceries, then later on in the day I will see the same old lady drop her bags in the store parking lot.
My husband is pretty amazed by it, But I'm pretty freaked out about it. Although it is pretty cool to impress my friends with what I see.
So I don't know if she's real, evidence points in the direction of fraud, but I do think there are psychic abilties out there. Hopefully I can start controlling it.
Thanks for your time!
Kay from Portland, Oregon
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 | 04:41 PM
one more thing, I get headaches when it happens. Maybe it's a brain toomer. I hope not.
If anyone else gets this then write back.
Chris
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 | 03:22 PM
Sylvia Browne is really a man baby yeah!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 | 03:55 AM
Check this out:

http://randi.org/jr/200512/122305hallelujah.html#i6

That's ME he's referring to! OK, he misspelled my last name (Pagini when it should be Pagani) but it's still ME. Hey, the guy's 80, we can cut him some slack.

As a little piece of explanation, the thing I sent to him was actually from craigslist.com. I believe it was a solicitation for guests for some upcoming TV show, if I remember correctly. Since all they want to do is produce an entertaining TV show, I have little doubt that they will slip the "psychic" the information people they use on the show have sent them.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 | 03:51 PM
CMG,

You finally have your 15 minutes of fame...and they spell your name wrong. Tough break man.

Great item though. I especially like how they disguise their "application" so it looks like they are only trying to see who deserves to be on the show the most.
mario milforte
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 | 02:13 PM
Hello, this message is for Kelly SS. I am truly sorry about how rude people have been to you here. There are cruel people in this world who enjoy nothing more than hurting others. I for one am not one of them. I am absolutely fascinated by your story and I LOVE the way you write. It is very ogriginal and entertaining. I would very much like to befriend you as people like yourself are hard to find. Please respond and maybe we can exchange contact info. If not, ok but I will be disappointed.
Also, to the others who say they have psychic abilities, I need your help. I am at an empasse in my life and need people like you. My mom is psychic but she is too weird and paranoid so I can't talk to her. Please respond.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 12:55 AM
Captain Al said:

"CMG,

You finally have your 15 minutes of fame...and they spell your name wrong. Tough break man."

Oh, shoot, I've had my 15 minutes more times than I can count. I apologize if this sounds like bragging, but I've been in just about every major newspaper in America at least once (some multiple times). This was especially true when I was a wacky morning drive radio DJ back in the 80's.

I sent Randi a note reminding him that that craigslist posting was for some upcoming TV show (I think he either missed that or forgot). I'm willing to bet he's right that the information will somehow "magically" make its way into the "psychic's" hands. All they want, after all, is to produce an entertaining TV show.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 12:57 AM
Mario Milforte said:

"Also, to the others who say they have psychic abilities, I need your help. I am at an empasse in my life and need people like you. My mom is psychic but she is too weird and paranoid so I can't talk to her. Please respond."

Mario, if your problems are of a personal nature, I think you should talk to a therapist, not a "psychic." If they are medical, you'd be FAR better off to see a doctor. Despite what you may believe, there is NO credible evidence of psychic ability.
mario milforte
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 | 11:12 AM
Cranky,
I do not have a problem. I have weird things happening and need a psychic to hopefully clarify what they are. I wouldn't go to a psychic for something a therapist or a doctor can help with. Despite what you may believe, my mother is psychic and she told me I was pregnant before I'd told anyone else, and that from thousands of miles away. I'm sure you have a logical explanation for that.
Anyway, is there anyone with supernatural abilities that can tell me why it seems me and my husband are constantly just escaping death this year? I believe it started with hurricane Katrina but it may have been earlier, and in the last 3 weeks, we've had 3 car accidents, 2 in which the car looked totaled, one from the front and the other both front and back. Should I get higher life insurance? lol
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 09:55 PM
mario milforte asks:
"Anyway, is there anyone with supernatural abilities that can tell me why it seems me and my husband are constantly just escaping death this year?"

I don't have supernatural ability but I can tell you why you and your husband are constantly escaping death.

1. If you had died in any of those accidents, you wouldn't be here asking questions.

2. Millions of people survived hurricane Katrina. I'm sure many of them also had car accidents afterwards. What makes your case anything more than slightly unusual?

3. Your chances of surviving a car accident are greater now than in the past due to stricter government safety regulations and the millions of dollars of research that go into modern automobile design. Better seats, collapsible steering columns and air bags have saved many lives and reduced injuries.

Should you get more life insurance?

With your recent driving record, a Defensive Driving course would be a better investment.
:coolsmile:
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 | 10:08 PM
Mario, Captain Al is completely correct in this. Millions of people worldwide survive car accidents. I have survived somewhere around a dozen myself. Some were my fault, some were other people's fault.

The fact of the matter is, it's not unusual to survive. It <i>is</i> a bit unusual to have had so many in such a short time span, but far from extraordinary, especially if you and/or your husband are bad drivers. Even if you aren't, there are plenty of other drivers out there that are and accidents <i>do</i> happen. Why do you automatically feel that you must be special to have survived three accidents and Katrina too? I'm sure that your insurance company doesn't agree with you.

Also, why do you feel inclined to give your hard earned (and at your rate, badly needed) money to someone who has been proven over and over again to be a fraud?
mario milforte
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 | 09:36 AM
Ok, I asked for psychic advice, not a skeptic beating. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Why must you assume that I am a bad driver when in fact I was NOT AT FAULT for any of the accidents!!! Also, it IS absolutely strange that all these horrible things are happening to me in such a short period of time. And in case you wanted to know, you can add 2 more to the list. My husband got fired and i got laid off in the last week. Oh one more, had to leave my luggage in califonia on my Christmas visit. It is strange that all of this S*** is piling up in such a short period of time.

It is very interesting that all you skeptics are mean, cruel, uncaring people. I mention all this horrible stuff hapenning to me and all you can do is accuse and dismiss? Not to mention that I didn't even ask for YOUR advice nor comments, nor help? I also never offered any money to anyone for their take. Maybe that's why so many people do believe in Sylvia even with all your logistics and skepticism. She at least offers hope, you offer berating judgement and cruel attacks. I'd take a nice friendly caring faud over a mean cruel skeptic anyday!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 | 10:09 AM
mario,

What did I say that was mean?

Are you referring to the suggestion that you take a Defensive Driving course? If so, you have misinterpreted the meaning.

People take Defensive Driving courses not only to recognise and correct bad driving habits but also to learn ways to avoid getting involved in accidents caused by others. I had to take one recently as a condition of employment. It was actually interesting, and I got paid for it!

All the other comments were just common sense. I suspect you are trying to attach deeper meaning to recent events than are really there. It's so much easier to blame your problems on some supernatural force than to make the effort to take control. You just want someone to tell you what you want to hear. If that's the case, okay, here goes:

"You are the best driver the world. Everyone is out to get you. Your husband's boss fired him just to get at the both of you. Other cars are taking aim at you. Radio station traffic reporters take calls from drivers giving information where you are at any given time so they can try to hit you. Luckily there is a Guardian Angel looking out for you so you don't get killed. Don't worry, none of this is your fault."

There, is that better?

"I'd take a nice friendly caring faud over a mean cruel skeptic anyday!

Yes, that's exactly what Sylvia Browne is banking on. She makes a pretty good living off people in your condition.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 | 02:08 PM
mario milforte said:

"And in case you wanted to know, you can add 2 more to the list. My husband got fired and i got laid off in the last week. Oh one more, had to leave my luggage in califonia on my Christmas visit. It is strange that all of this S*** is piling up in such a short period of time."

Well, it's certainly unfortunate, but I wouldn't say it's particularly "strange." You see it that way because, obviously, you wish all these negative things weren't happening to you, especially in close proximity.

You probably went a fairly long time without any catastrophes befalling you, right? What THAT "strange?" While it may have defied the odds, you wouldn't think of it that way because you weren't troubled by it. It may still have been a statistically unusual event, however.

By the way, may I ask how someone named Mario has a husband?

"Maybe that's why so many people do believe in Sylvia even with all your logistics and skepticism. She at least offers hope, you offer berating judgement and cruel attacks. I'd take a nice friendly caring faud over a mean cruel skeptic anyday!"

Sylvia, in our opinion, is a fraud who takes money by deception. Where's the "caring" in that, may I ask? I don't think we're being mean at all, but sometimes the truth isn't particularly pleasant to contemplate. Children may get to believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and "caring" "psychics." It's the job of an adult, however, to try to deal with the truth realistically.
Darkness
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 | 10:35 PM
You are all incredibly stupid and will find the truth when you die. Jesus died on the cross? Please! Oh I'm sorry you are taking into account all the lies from the Catholic church while they continue to hide the truth. You do realize they rewrote the bible to suit themselves right?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 | 01:30 AM
Darkness said:

"You are all incredibly stupid and will find the truth when you die. Jesus died on the cross? Please! Oh I'm sorry you are taking into account all the lies from the Catholic church while they continue to hide the truth. You do realize they rewrote the bible to suit themselves right?"

Yes, I think ALL right-thinking people know that Jesus died from a lethal injection given by the Romans after he was found guilty of inciting the public against their rule. Duh.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 | 09:24 AM
Don't you just love it when someone jumps into a converation to call everyone stupid? 😊

Mario, we're not being mean. We're trying to educate you. There is nothing impossible or even very surprising about what's happened to you. Your husband was fired and you were laid off. Wow, you survived Katrina so you were obviously in an impacted area? Guess what, tens of thousands of other people were fired or laid off following Katrina. You're not special.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 | 05:41 PM
Hey, Mario, I'm still curious, are you a man in a gay marriage or are you a woman with an unusual first name? Don't worry, I'm not anti-gay, so I'm not going to give you a hard time, I'm just a nosey SOB.
mario milforte
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 | 08:34 PM
Than you all for proving my point.
And cranky, I use that name so that I can identify junk email?
mario milforte
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 | 08:44 PM
and just wanted to add, I am almost 30 years old and this is the FIRST year that I've ever been in an accident. I received my license after taking the defensive driving course suggested. My husband did not get fired from a New Orleans job. A simple "sorry for your bad luck" would have sufficed if indeed you were itching to say something. All other evacuees who hear my story say "whoa, that's weird, hope 2006 is better." Be nice or Otherwise, let the psychics talk please.
I don't care if you don't believe. Fact remains my mother knows things before they happen and knows things noone has told her about. Fact remains that a perfect stranger knew what my future would hold even though it was not what I'd wanted. And fact remains you are bitter and mean.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 | 09:50 PM
Even someone at Fox News doubts Sylvia Browne.

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180681,00.html">TV Psychic Misses Mark On Miners</a>

If Fox News doubts you, you're really in trouble.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 | 01:04 AM
Mario Milforte said:

"and just wanted to add, I am almost 30 years old and this is the FIRST year that I've ever been in an accident."

And this "proves" the existance of supernatural forces how, exactly? There are people who have driven for several decades who have never been in an accident. Does that somehow "prove" something, other than that they are careful and lucky drivers?

"A simple "sorry for your bad luck" would have sufficed if indeed you were itching to say something."

Well, I'm sure we all feel sorry for your misfortune, but this thread is about debating the existance of supernatural forces, so you should expect to be argued with if you assert the existance of anything like that.

"Be nice or Otherwise, let the psychics talk please."

That's absurd, especially in this forum, which is, after all, about skepticism. Isn't it our duty as intelligent people interested in the truth to argue against that which we believe is nonsense? Should we just mumble "uh, OK," if we encounter someone who says the Earth is flat?

"I don't care if you don't believe. Fact remains my mother knows things before they happen and knows things noone has told her about."

I know about things that haven't happened yet, too. I'll bet you ONE MILLION DOLLARS that the sun will rise tomorrow morning. Wanna bet me? How could I POSSIBLY know that before it happens? Yes, I'm aware that that isn't the kind of thing you were referring to, but there are many, perfectly natural, reasons a person might appear to know the unknowable.

"Fact remains that a perfect stranger knew what my future would hold even though it was not what I'd wanted. And fact remains you are bitter and mean."

I suspect the stranger who "knew" about your future was employing some very simple tricks that magicians and people involved in the "psychic" racket call "cold reading." There are books which explain this technique; you might be interested in going to Amazon and possibly purchasing one of them so that you can learn how this works. Of course, that would mean that you wouldn't be so impressed with simple tricks and that might be a wee bit disillusioning, but it would also help open your eyes to the REAL world around you.

Why am I "bitter and mean?" Because I know the truth about some of this stuff? I'm not necessarily smarter than you, but I AM better informed about things which can appear "magical" when you don't know the secret(s) behind them.
Rob Conway
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 | 06:39 AM
Sylvia Browne opened her big mouth on tv and got caught out. i hate frauds and i do belive these powers do exist and most with that gift dont do it for profit. Sylvia Browne you hoax, your slime and u feed off the greeving and or people that dont stop and analize how broad her (and their for all the others like her)predictions are and how they will fish for information that they can use to thow their ILLUSION

A real psychic will be able to drop names without fishing and tell you about things that no one knows about and not in a general sence. shame on you fakes u bring dis-honor to the real psychics out there, i feel sorry for you fakes out there because u end up beliving your own lies.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 | 01:23 PM
Rob Conway:

"A real psychic will be able to drop names without fishing and tell you about things that no one knows about and not in a general sence. shame on you fakes u bring dis-honor to the real psychics out there, i feel sorry for you fakes out there because u end up beliving your own lies."

Well, you're certainly correct that if there was such a thing as a REAL psychic, they would be able to operate like that. Good luck finding one, though. I've yet to see anyone who can do what you suggest, though. It's ALWAYS a fishing expedition for information that they can then spew back to the sucker, er, client.

The day you've found a TRUE psychic is the day you've found someone who can take the million bucks away from James Randi. Make sure to negotiate a finder's fee up front.
<3
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 | 06:38 PM
you guys are weird
Cranky Media Girl
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 | 06:39 PM
YEA BABY, <3's RIGHT!
Whitster
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 | 09:21 AM
Sylvia Browne is a big stupid phony! Anyone can ask a question like oh my dad passed away, does he have to tell me something? Uh ya, how about get a life and face reality. But Sylvia goes on about oh... you'll see feathers when they are present what a bunch a BS!
Truman
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 | 11:45 AM
Cranky Said:

"Hey, Mario, I'm still curious, are you a man in a gay marriage or are you a woman with an unusual first name? Don't worry, I'm not anti-gay, so I'm not going to give you a hard time, I'm just a nosey SOB."

Damn that's what Ive been wondering. I was just about to ask that when I saw your post.
hellsrollingthunder
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 | 10:56 AM
The big discussion about Sylvia Browne getting tested by the
Amazing Randi is getting tired. Whether Ms Browne is psychic or
not she has a CHOICE of whether she wishes to get tested or not.
Last time I looked we had freedom of choice. She has claimed she
has been tested in LA and that is all I can remember. She had I think it was 80% correct if I got that straight. Anyway if these other
psychics chose to get tested they have the right to chose who
tests them and making sure they are really under the right controlled circumstances. And we also don't know if she has already spoken to this Randi and maybe the others have also.

Has anyone heard about her being on her radio broadcast the night the miners were supposedly found alive? She stated she had picked up on their energy and new they were alive. Then a few
hours later they reported the truth and she said they were talking to her from the Other Side. Also I was informed the
Sean Hornbeck case was interesting, she wanted the family to
fly her out there and charge them $700 per hour. I thought it was $600 for a reading, or whatever. Her predictions turned out
to be mistaken. Has anyone heard about this one as well?

If she is phony as people state it will come out soon as it should.
Pro
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 | 01:10 PM
Hey WHITSTER!

Is she a butt hole too?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 | 06:00 PM
Hellsrollingthunder said:

"The big discussion about Sylvia Browne getting tested by the
Amazing Randi is getting tired. Whether Ms Browne is psychic or
not she has a CHOICE of whether she wishes to get tested or not."

Of course she does; no one is arguing she doesn't. Problem is, she promised to let Randi test her on the Larry King Show, then weaseled out. Shouldn't she be held to her own words?

"Last time I looked we had freedom of choice. She has claimed she
has been tested in LA and that is all I can remember. She had I think it was 80% correct if I got that straight."

Yes, she may CLAIM that. Do you know for a fact that the test even happened? If it did, do you know under what circumstances it occurred? Was it a true scientific test or was it a half-assed one conducted by one of her fans?

"Anyway if these other
psychics chose to get tested they have the right to chose who
tests them and making sure they are really under the right controlled circumstances. And we also don't know if she has already spoken to this Randi and maybe the others have also."

Again, no one is arguing that she doesn't have the right to pick who will test her. The problem there is, as I'm sure you can see, that she will almost certainly pick someone who will NOT conduct a proper scientific test. As for speaking to Randi, if you go to his website, randi.org, you can search for her and you'll see that he's attempted to contact her many times in many ways and that she has repeatedly failed to respond. This was AFTER she promised on the Larry King Show to be tested by Randi, by the way.

"Has anyone heard about her being on her radio broadcast the night the miners were supposedly found alive? She stated she had picked up on their energy and new they were alive. Then a few
hours later they reported the truth and she said they were talking to her from the Other Side."

Yes, that's my understanding of what happened, although I think her 180-degree turn happened in less than a few hours after her initial prediction.

As far as her being exposed, she HAS been exposed, more than once in fact. The problem is that believers WANT to believe and the facts simply don't matter to them. They WANT to believe that she has "powers" and that's all that matters to them.
Mike
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 | 06:36 PM
Hello,
I wonder does anybody actually make up some stories about having some ghosts living in their home and ask Sylvia for help. For instance, one person makes up a story about two ghosts, which are male and female. She/he asks some questions for Sylvia to answer like what are their names, why are they bothering them, and why are they here? She/he could get some answers from Sylvia regarding to the questions. But, the answers are completely false because that person is making up the ghost stories in the first place, therefore, Sylvia could not be possible to predict the situation and help that person by answering some questions.
Mike
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 | 06:40 PM
I would love to believe that there are true psychics in the world. Maybe there are very small numbers of psychics that are actually real and accurate. What do you think?
Mike
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 | 06:47 PM
Rob,

I agree with you. I think all true psychics should not make profits from their gift at all. If I was a psychic, which I am not, then I would prefer not to make profits from my gift. I would share my gift with people with no charge at all. It is my gift, which is purposely to help people, not to make money off of it. That
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 | 12:53 AM
Mike said:

"I would love to believe that there are true psychics in the world. Maybe there are very small numbers of psychics that are actually real and accurate. What do you think?"

Know what, Mike? I also wish there were real psychics in the world. I wish the Earth was flat, too, so we could ride to the edge and look off into space. While those things would make life more interesting, unfortunately, wishing doesn't make it so. EVERY TIME "psychic powers" have been properly tested, they have failed. In other words, there is NO scientific evidence that there is any such thing as "psychic ability." That's the sad fact.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 | 12:56 AM
Mike said:

"For instance, one person makes up a story about two ghosts, which are male and female. She/he asks some questions for Sylvia to answer like what are their names, why are they bothering them, and why are they here? She/he could get some answers from Sylvia regarding to the questions. But, the answers are completely false because that person is making up the ghost stories in the first place, therefore, Sylvia could not be possible to predict the situation and help that person by answering some questions."

Mike, I am aware of a recent plan to test a "psychic" in a similar manner, although it didn't involve Sylvia. I can't say much about this, but what you've described is the general idea: trick the "psychic" into answering questions about a situation that never existed.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 | 09:24 AM
So what, she's just picking up interference from a similar situation that <i>did</i> coincidentally happen.

There's always an excuse. Always.
Mike
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 | 10:58 AM
I emailed to Randi the same question about tricking with false questions. Here is what he said, "Psychics say that if you lie or try to deceive them, they get negative vibes, and you
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 | 02:25 PM
Mike said:

"So, some psychics feel and predict the vibes from the person and could tell if that person is telling truth or false about the situation."

No, "psychics" SAY they can feel and predict "vibes" from people. It's nonsense. There's NO proof that any such things exist.

There are two kinds of "psychics." One is self-deluded. The other is a crook. That's it, there is no more to it, unfortunately.
Julie
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 02:48 PM
Hi, I stumbled across this forum when I did a search on sylvia browne's slip up on the miners. I haven't read all the posts, just the ones on this last page so if I say anything that's already been mentioned then I apologize. Anway, I do believe in psychics and supernatural occurances because I've experienced them myself. I understand anyone who doesn't believe but I cannot sit here and say it isn't real when I personally know for a fact it does. But that's not what I came here to say. I've never ever liked Sylvia Browne. I'd like to say I'm a good judge of character but there's something about her that's always seemed off to me so I've never supported her by buying books or anything like that. I'm also not going to say she's fake because I haven't done any research on her and don't know her work. But since I don't like her, I am getting a little pleasure off her horrible slip up lol.

I'm also disheartened to see the non believers on here actually following what that fraud James Randi has to say. Haven't you guys looked into all the things he's failed at over the years? Don't you know why no one will take up his million dollar challenge? No one is perfect with their special abilities but that doesn't mean they don't have them. Science can't prove everything, with all the things in this world that scientists are scratching their heads over I would think more of you would understand that. Like, we all dream at night and the only reason scientists attest to that is because they dream themselves. Can you imagine if only a few select people remembered what they dreamt about? How would they be able to prove it? Because there isn't a science test out there that can actually prove our dreams. All they have are scans that show brain activity. Wow that's great proof isn't it?

There have been many tests to prove and disprove psychics, I've read the reports and you can too if you look it up. Many more scientists are coming forward with their findings while others are calling these highly respected scientists frauds and not using real science. Well 'real' science isn't going to prove anything in this area, it's impossible. You HAVE to use other methods and they're as scientific as you can possibly get. If it wasn't, so many highly reguarded scientists wouldn't be attaching their name to it. Anyway, I've rambled enough. This guy has probably been mentioned on this site before but victor zammit has a ton of resources. Very interesting read.
Julie
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 03:01 PM
***There are two kinds of "psychics." One is self-deluded. The other is a crook. That's it, there is no more to it, unfortunately.***

I agree a good majority of 'psychics' are what you describe but it's unfortunate that they've given real psychics a bad name. A lot of the best psychics don't ask for money. There's a chinese man that does free readings in the Houston area. I had to get up at 5am to stand in line for 2 hours to get my name on a waiting list. My reading was pretty acurate but my friend got the best one because he was able to contact an old friend of hers that passed when she was a child. He called the boy by his nickname which was the only name my friend called him by. I hope to get another reading one day
Pro
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 03:28 PM
Julie, I too believe in the paranormal, and hate James Randi. But with the chinese psychic, how did he get the nickname? Did he just say "I am getting a nickname that you use to call him", or did he actually say what the nickname was? Because usually kids give each other nicknames and that's a no brainer. So he could be doing a cold reading. If he asked that question then your friend may have told him the nickname and thought "wow, how did he know that I had a nickname for him?"

Ask your friend about that. If psychics start to ask about your life then get up and leave with out paying, because they are doing a cold reading. I have actually had a really good reading which I kept my mouth shut. As a matter of fact she told me to keep my mouth shut during the reading. The only thing I did was ask questions and then she provided the answers and told me about my past experiences. She did no fishing around at all. I thought it was really good.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 03:51 PM
Julie,

Before you say anymore, you really should read the rest of the thread. We've heard it all before ad nauseam.

"Don't you know why no one will take up his million dollar challenge?"

This statement alone proves you are highly misinformed. Many people have taken him up on his challenge. Both sides always agreed to the test procedure in advance and in every case, the challenger failed. The ones who wouldn't get tested didn't because they know they are frauds and won't pass. This is not surprising since there is no such thing as psychic powers. If psychic abilities were real, it would have been proven long ago and every "psychic" would be a billionaire from their stock market investments and lottery winnings.
Mike
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 03:58 PM
Yes, I believe in psychics because they have an incredible gift to help people. That is the way they are born with. I believe there are real psychics that are honest and accurate, but very few and rare are existed. Some of them are hiding their gifts for some reasons, while some of them are willing to help people. I think people who don
Julie
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 04:24 PM
No he said the name. The way this guy works is, he'll ask questions like 'Where's so and so' and before you can even answer, he'll answer for you. I don't remember what the nickname was so lets just call him pee wee. So the guy asked 'Where's christopher' and at first my friend was confused because she didn't know anyone by that name and just as she was about to say something he said 'don't say you don't remember him, he's sitting right next to you. Pee wee wants to know why you're always so sad'. By that time she was very overwhelmed and burst into tears. It's been 6 years since that day so I hope my memory is correct on that story. We never talked about it again.

For my own reading, I'll admit not everything was correct. Everything he said about the past and current events was right on but for my future he was wrong. He said I would marry and have children in my late 20's but I married and had children by the time I was 21. He WAS right about my future husband being born in 1977 though. But I can't blame him for the mistakes because we change our future constantly. At the time of the reading, I guess that was my fortune but I took things a different way. I saw him when I was 19 and I was infatuated with a man that I was sure I would snag. The chinese guy insisted we would not be together and I was insistant we would. The guy started to get annoyed with me and I laugh about it now but I was so upset by his reading that I felt I had to prove him wrong. I was like, this guy doesn't know me! He doesnt know what I can do and how this man feels for me! Well I guess in my mission to snag this other person, I met my future husband in an unusual way and I suppose that's where my destiny took a different path. The guy also told me I was going to die in my late 80's but since I'm down a different path, who knows when I'll die now! lol!!
Julie
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 04:35 PM
***This statement alone proves you are highly misinformed. Many people have taken him up on his challenge. Both sides always agreed to the test procedure in advance and in every case, the challenger failed. The ones who wouldn't get tested didn't because they know they are frauds and won't pass. This is not surprising since there is no such thing as psychic powers. If psychic abilities were real, it would have been proven long ago and every "psychic" would be a billionaire from their stock market investments and lottery winnings.***

I am NOT misinformed. I know people have tried this challenge before but I'm glad the more reputable people haven't taken it up. It's a trap, that's all there is to it. James Randi wouldn't dare risk having anyone pass the challenge because he would lose all his followers and the flow of cash coming his way. He's an idiot but not a total moron. The guy I mentioned, victor zammit, also has a million dollar challenge to anyone who can refute the evidence he has come up with. Many have tried and all have failed. Same thing. I've also heard the whole 'if they were real they would be rich from winning the lottery' ad nauseum as well and the fact that you one using that logic tells me you also do not do your research either. Psychics have explained this MANY MANY TIMES. Try looking up both sides of the spectrum and you will find the answers you are looking for. I have, I've leaned on both sides before because both sides give great points but one point that screams at me is that skeptics such as James Randi spout more speculation than actual fact and the nastiness they display is disturbing. I will eventually make my way through this thread and read all the posts but there are too many and I don't have time. So again, if I say something that's already mentioned I'm sorry.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 06:29 PM
Julie says,
"James Randi wouldn't dare risk having anyone pass the challenge because he would lose all his followers and the flow of cash coming his way. He's an idiot but not a total moron."

How many times are you going to prove yourself misinformed? You obviously have not read the <a href="http://www.randi.org/research/index.html">$1,000,000 Challenge</a> rules. If you had you would know Randi does not conduct the tests so he has no way to deny a winner from collecting. If he tried he would leave himself open to a massive law suit since this prize is so well known and publicized. It would be an open and shut case for the psychic.

The rules state both parties will agree to the test conditions, the test protcol, and what constitutes a passing grade before testing begins. There is absolutely no doubt as to whether someone passes or fails. Period.

"skeptics such as James Randi spout more speculation than actual fact "

Care to give some examples of his speculation? It doesn't matter anyway since he or any other skeptic has nothing to prove. It is up to the person or persons making the claim to prove it. So far, none have been able to prove a thing.

"I've also heard the whole 'if they were real they would be rich from winning the lottery' ad nauseum as well and the fact that you one using that logic tells me you also do not do your research either. Psychics have explained this MANY MANY TIMES."

There is a big difference between explaining and giving excuses. There is no conceivable reason why a legitimate psychic could not predict winning lottery numbers or a rising stock. When they can't they don't explain why, they only give excuses. It's the same way with those who have tried and failed the $1,000,000 Challenge. They really thought they had psychic ability but they were delusional. But even though they fail a real test, they still believe they have the power. Failure is blamed on various things like negative vibes or Mars being in the wrong part of the sky. What's interesting is they don't detect these negative conditions before the test.

"But I can't blame him for the mistakes because we change our future constantly."

Are you serious? A legitimate psychic should be able to read the future that actually does happens. We all "change our future" every day. Who knows what changes will happen in your life just by missing a bus. It tells me you are ready and willing to alter your interpretation of a psychic reading to fit what really happens.
Julie
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 | 09:19 PM
And YOU obviously have read nothing about the people who have taken his challenge! It is a hoax, research it!

Care to give some examples of his speculation?
You've got to be kidding me!!! I'm more interested in what you think this man has said that is factual! Do you even see him on Larry King, everything out of his mouth is pure specualation or an outright lie. Here are a few examples off the top of my head. There was a medium who read a caller on Larry King and did not ask the woman a single question and the woman confirmed every single word the medium said was correct. Randi's explanation? Typical cold reading. Oh really? It is my understanding that cold readings consist of fishing for information by way of asking a lot of questions. He knew the medium didn't ask a single question yet 'cold reading' was all he could come up with. For whatever reason, he threw in that John Edward is only 13% correct. What? John Edward has been studied and tested at the university of Arizona and he came out with 80% accuracy. Other tests put him above 80% as well. There is no such documentation anywhere of this 13% figure he came up with. He LIED. According to Randi, when a medium tells their subject the cause of death of their loved one, it's too general because EVERYONE had died this way. Really? Apparently EVERYONE has neurological problems, breathing problems, heart problems, cancer, blood disorders, etc when they die! There's about a million different ways people can die yet when a psychic medium tells their subject a cause of death with specific details such as cancer of the lungs, or an anurism (however you spell it), James Randi can only say 'oh everyone dies that way'. Speculation sir. This man does nothing but speculate and take guesses. He's a fraud. Thank goodness only 2% of the american population give this guy any credit. Don't believe me? Look it up.

There is a big difference between explaining and giving excuses. There is no conceivable reason why a legitimate psychic could not predict winning lottery numbers or a rising stock.

That's a matter of opinion, nothing else. "Only the foolish mock what they can't comprehend" -Dr Dan Penman..a once skeptical cynic who came to this conclusion after running his own tests on a psychic medium.

Are you serious? A legitimate psychic should be able to read the future that actually does happens.

You say this as if you know anything about psychics. From your previous comments, I can tell you have no interest in how they work, their accuracy, or basically anything about their world. But you're telling me what they should and should not be able to do like some kind of expert. And no, you are wrong about me willing to alter a reading. Take this into consideration. A man who just started a business asks a psychic what the future of his business has in store. She tells him it will prosper and he will be rich and successful. He then says hey, I will be successful no matter what and he slacks off. His business fails. Does this mean the psychic was wrong? No. He would have succeeded had he continued as he was before. People seem to think psychics are like Gods and are supposed to know every little thing. It doesn't work that way and no true psychic will claim to know it all. Here's something to think about. ESP is supposed to be a 6th sense right? Well lets use a sense we all have, smell. If you were blindfolded and someone passed 10 things under your nose, would you be able to identify all 10 accurately? It's normal to get 6-7 out of 10 correct. But since you didn't get all 10, does it mean you were guessing at the other 6-7? That's a 60-70% rate of accuracy for a sense we all have. Psychics usually have a 70-90% rate of accuracy for their 6th sense. But to people like Randi, it makes them frauds because it's not 100%. Hmm
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:38 AM
Julie said:

"I am NOT misinformed. I know people have tried this challenge before but I'm glad the more reputable people haven't taken it up."

Julie, who in your opinion is a "more reputable" "psychic?" What makes them "more reputable" in your opinion (since they've never proven their claims, after all)?

"It's a trap, that's all there is to it. James Randi wouldn't dare risk having anyone pass the challenge because he would lose all his followers and the flow of cash coming his way."

As you should know, Randi has NO part in conducting the tests involved in the Million Dollar Challenge. In some cases, he may not even be present when the tests are conducted.

"He's an idiot but not a total moron. The guy I mentioned, victor zammit, also has a million dollar challenge to anyone who can refute the evidence he has come up with. Many have tried and all have failed."

You call RANDI a scam artist but support VICTOR ZAMMIT? You really really do NOT understand how science works, do you? Zammit is asking people to prove a negative, essentially. Do I have to explain to you the problem with that?

"I've also heard the whole 'if they were real they would be rich from winning the lottery' ad nauseum as well and the fact that you one using that logic tells me you also do not do your research either. Psychics have explained this MANY MANY TIMES."

Yes, they have. The "explanation" is nothing more than the usual gibberish they use to explain away their failures. Are you saying that NOT ONE "psychic" with their amazing supernatural abilities can predict the lottery numbers before they're drawn? Wow. Why, it's almost as if the "powers" can't be proven to exist under real world conditions.

"Try looking up both sides of the spectrum and you will find the answers you are looking for. I have, I've leaned on both sides before because both sides give great points but one point that screams at me is that skeptics such as James Randi spout more speculation than actual fact and the nastiness they display is disturbing."

Well, maybe the skeptics are pissed off at fakes who take money from people who can ill afford it by scamming them with phony "psychic" powers. By the way, do you have any actual examples of a skeptic being "nasty?"

"Do you even see him on Larry King, everything out of his mouth is pure specualation or an outright lie. Here are a few examples off the top of my head. There was a medium who read a caller on Larry King and did not ask the woman a single question and the woman confirmed every single word the medium said was correct. Randi's explanation? Typical cold reading."

Who was this "psychic" who was allegedly on Larry King's show? When did it air?

"For whatever reason, he threw in that John Edward is only 13% correct. What? John Edward has been studied and tested at the university of Arizona and he came out with 80% accuracy. Other tests put him above 80% as well."

I assume you're referring to Gary Schwartz who works at the University of Arizona. Have you bothered to read Randi's analysis of the flaws in Schwartz's work? Parts of it were shockingly sloppy. For example, he allowed a "psychic" (John Edward, I believe) to be in a situation where he could SEE the stuff he was supposed to be getting "psychically." Hell, *I* could have an 80% accuracy rate under those conditions.

"According to Randi, when a medium tells their subject the cause of death of their loved one, it's too general because EVERYONE had died this way. Really?"

Continued...
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:39 AM
...continued

No, not really. What Randi says is that "psychics" tend to start off by talking about general medical conditions involving the head, chest or lower back. Those general areas cover a large majority of human ailments. They see which of those the subject responds to and narrow down from there. If you watch the big "psychics" work, you'll see that they tend to do exactly that. Cold reading is a skill but it ain't rocket science.

"Thank goodness only 2% of the american population give this guy [Randi] any credit. Don't believe me? Look it up."

No, how about YOU look it up? You're quoting this "statistic," so why don't YOU provide the evidence for it? You wouldn't just be making it up, would you? I find it hard to imagine that any polling company actually commissioned anything like that. So, put up or shut up.

"A man who just started a business asks a psychic what the future of his business has in store. She tells him it will prosper and he will be rich and successful. He then says hey, I will be successful no matter what and he slacks off. His business fails. Does this mean the psychic was wrong? No. He would have succeeded had he continued as he was before. People seem to think psychics are like Gods and are supposed to know every little thing."

If the man's future included success, how could he then fail? Failure would mean that he DIDN'T have success in his future. Either something happens in the future of it doesn't. According to you, a "psychic" could tell me that I was going to hit the lottery and then, when I didn't, he or she could say, "Well, you bought the wrong ticket." I guess to you that would constitute a "hit."

Gee, the way you describe a "psychic's" "ability," you make it indistinguishable from guesswork. They have the amazing ability to predict the future, unless something--virtually anything--happens, in which case, hey, how could they have known? Damn, I'm in the wrong line of work!

"Psychics usually have a 70-90% rate of accuracy for their 6th sense. But to people like Randi, it makes them frauds because it's not 100%. Hmm"

Absolutely wrong. Anyone who takes the Million Dollar Challenge specifies UPFRONT what they claim they can do and with what degree of accuracy. NO ONE has EVER been held to a 100% accuracy rate. A person would have to be an absolute fool to claim that they can perform with 100% accuracy--and they don't. They therefore are not tested for that level of accuracy.

You'd know all this if you just read the rules of the Challenge before you started criticizing them for things they doesn't include.

By the way, what "psychic" has EVER demonstrated a 70-90% rate of accuracy under proper scientific protocols? Or is this "statistic" pulled out of your ass like I suspect the "2% of the population trusts Randi" one?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:49 AM
Julie says:
"And YOU obviously have read nothing about the people who have taken his challenge! It is a hoax, research it!"

I have researched it. The JREF $1,000,000 Paranormal Challenge is internationally known and respected in the scientific community. Would a hoax have <a href="http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/990.php?ein=650649443&yr=200412&rt=990&t9=A">one million dollars reserved</a> in an account? (see page 3 in the link, line 68.) If you have any information to the contrary, I'd like to hear it. (Please don't give links to some wacko self-proclaimed psychic who is trying to avoid being proven a fraud.)

"It is my understanding that cold readings consist of fishing for information by way of asking a lot of questions."

There is more to <a href="http://skepdic.com/coldread.html">cold reading</a> than asking questions. The "psychic" can also throw out vague ideas and watch (or listen) for a positive indication, then zero in on the answer. The answer doesn't have to be exact. Anything even remotely close is good enough for believers.

"For whatever reason, he threw in that John Edward is only 13% correct. What? John Edward has been studied and tested at the university of Arizona and he came out with 80% accuracy. Other tests put him above 80% as well."

I can't remember for sure, but I believe Randi reviewed some test data on John Edward and came up with the 13% number. The difference is no doubt due to what the two different sides consider a "hit" and a "miss". The standards for correct answer in the psychic community are very low. Like I said before, anything even remotely close is considered a "hit". However, in a REAL scientific test, that's not good enough. The general public are poor judges of what constitutes a valid test. That's why the general public doesn't write test procedures for new medicines and jet airplanes.

If psychics were real, they should be pretty close all the time. Otherwise, what's so special about them compared to non-psychic people? Anybody can guess and come up with "almost hits".

It's the same with cause of death predictions. In general terms, there are really very few ways most people die. The psychic works the numbers using general terms. Then when they're close the amazed subject being read will provide the exact answer while giving all the credit to the psychic. Even if the psychic is wrong, it's likely they had some relative or friend or friend of a friend's relative die that way. And of course it will then be considered a "hit". So Mr. Edward claims 80% accuracy at the U of Arizona? Let's get him to try it at some other universities with other testers and see how well he does.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:50 AM
Julie also said:

"I can tell you have no interest in how they work, their accuracy, or basically anything about their world. But you're telling me what they should and should not be able to do like some kind of expert."

How can I know anything about their world? Even the psychics who claim the ability can't tell us. After several hundred years, no one has any explanation of how psychics work. Why do you suppose that is? After all, science has uncovered a vast amount of knowledge about physics, chemistry, astronomy, geology, electicity, biology, etc, but not a single fact about psychic abilities. Isn't that strange.

"Here's something to think about. ESP is supposed to be a 6th sense right?"

It is? Says who? You sound like you are not sure.

Humans have only five senses. Count them. If there were any more we would have known about them long ago. We would have heard about them in ancient Egypt and other civilizations. Why don't the Eskimoes have psychic stories? Why is the phenomenon only reported in modern times? The reason is people in modern industrialized societies have a lot of spare time to invent these kind of things. It was then inevitable some clever charlatans would learn there is money to made by exploiting people with these fanciful ideas. Beats working for a living.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:57 AM
CMG,
This time it was me who was writing my response while you posted yours. Again we covered some of the same points. Fortunately there were enough flaws in Julie's logic to go around.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:57 AM
Julie said:

"The way this guy works is, he'll ask questions like 'Where's so and so' and before you can even answer, he'll answer for you."

Um, if he can really do that by "psychic" means, why does he ask any questions at all? I should be able to walk in, sit down silently and the guy says to me, "Your mother's name was June, your father's name was Ed," et cetera. Since you say he cuts the client off before they can answer, what's the point of the questions? I suspect your memory of this event may be faulty.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 01:04 AM
Mike said:

"Yes, I believe in psychics because they have an incredible gift to help people."

Mike, the key word in that sentence is "believe." For whatever reason, you have such a strong need to believe in "psychic" powers that you simply aren't interested in facts.

If I was to say to you, "I believe that pigs can fly." you'd think I was nuts. You'd say, "I've never seen a flying pig" and I'd reply, "Well, that doesn't PROVE that NO pig can fly." On and on we'd go and you'd walk away convinced that I was simply believing what I WANTED to believe.

Yes, you've undoubtedly seen things that SEEMED to prove that "psychic" powers exist. The sad fact, though, is that none of what you saw was conducted under proper scientific conditions. Whenever "psychic" powers have been properly tested, they have failed. Every time. Without exception.

If a flying pig (figuratively speaking) exists, no one has ever produced it.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 01:13 AM
Captain Al said:

"CMG,
This time it was me who was writing my response while you posted yours. Again we covered some of the same points. Fortunately there were enough flaws in Julie's logic to go around."

No kidding. There's always the chance that the fact that a few of us come up with similar rational explanations for these "phenomena" might actually influence someone to think about this stuff critically. One can hope. The struggle goes on.
Mike
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 10:43 AM
I still believe that psychics are helping people. I have seen some everywhere on TV and other things. I have seen plenty of evidence and facts that would be enough to convince people and me to believe in.
Julie
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 | 12:33 PM
Wow there's a lot to answer here. I'd be here all day if I answered every single thing so this is all I have to say. First of all, CMG, one of the first things I wanted to say to you is thanks for being polite and debating with me rather than ridiculing me. That is until I read further down your posts and all that flew out the window. I think it's funny that you want me to give examples of nastiness from skeptics. I can understand how you wouldn't see it, seeing how you display some of the same nastiness. How typical. No, I do not pull anything out my ass. Everything I've said so far has sources. The 2 percent statistic was done at the University of California in Berkley and it describes skeptics in general. I'm just saying it's probably that same 2% who give this guy any credit seeing that they would have the same beliefs he does. The medium I spoke of before was Rosemary Altea and you can find the transcript at cnn. John Edward's statistics can be found anywhere if you find the time to look it up but here's the thing. Even though his tests have scientific basis, no skeptical person or scientist is ever going to accept it because it doesn't fit their own beliefs. The problem is EVERYONE, no matter on what side, is going to find fault in ANY test given. No one will ever be happy.

I have not read JR findings in the UoA testings but I have read the documents online and read JE's version in one of his books. Both say there was no info given on the subjects and no contact was ever made before or during the readings. I HAVE read that JR thinks JE was given an uppper hand because he THINKS JE may have seen the subject he was reading. Are you referring to the pink shirt thing? JE had his back to the subject and couldn't see her, and he told her something like 'pretty in pink'. JR says JE must have seen a flash of the shirt reflecting somewhere in the room. Maybe he did maybe he didn't but what about the double blind tests? No info on the subjects, couldn't see the subjects because of the screen between them, and the subjects only allowed to answer yes or no. What's sloppy about that? All the mediums scored very high.

Here is the big hole I see in JR's test. He says he will allow a statistician to set what's a passing grade and what isn't. Basically whoever is tested will be allowed some wrong answers and still possibly pass. What if the wrong answers were WAY off base? I can't imagine JR actually risking his reputation as a hardcore skeptic to hand 1 million dollars to someone who couldn't answer some of his test questions. His test is not fool proof and there is no science to it.

Which brings me to something else. James Randi claims to not believe in anything paranormal correct? Why then did he say he DID believe in psychic ability on Larry King? He said,"Absolutely, or I wouldn't be in this business." For everything I know about JR, I find that extremely contradicting. You can find that in the same transcript I mentioned earlier with Rosemary Altea.

Well I've already spent more time on this than I wanted to. I'll eventually get to all your questions but I'd like to enjoy my sunday afternoon first and get away from the computer screen
Son of Walter
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 | 06:21 PM
Where has Kelly gone? How about roxy and Carter?

I've enjoyed your posts the most, guys. Yours most of all, Kelly.

Please, don't allow your inability to spell, use correct grammar, or unlock your CAPS key (Walk away from it. Slowly.) to stop you.

Kelly, you even have a new fan named mario. mario wants to be your friend.

Come on back. Use numbers inappropriately, overemphasize mundane words and go crazy with your vs. you're. (I know you don't understand that last one. It's all right, honey.)

We need you to spread the word.

Sylvia is real.

So is my hysterical laughter.
Pro
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 | 12:57 PM
Son of Walter,

Could you please tell us why you think she's real? Have you had an experience with her? Tell us, because just plain out telling us that she exists isn't good enough
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