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The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 05:34 PM
Paul, it's one of those unpleasant early memories I can't seem to forget, as much as I would like to.
Sharruma, I don't think evolution would involve incest to as great a degree as the Adam and Eve story would. A small isolated population can become genetically differentiated over time without brothers and sisters having to mate. And if you go back to the first amoebas, that's all asexual reproduction anyway.
By the way, who was Adam and Eve's third child mentioned in the bible? I never learned about a third child in my religion class. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 06:00 PM
Oh, and about space expanding faster than the speed of light; that's a-ok with relativity; space-time itself can expand faster than the speed of light, but matter cannot travel at the speed of light. I forget how it works now, but basically the law of relativity isn't being violated. Not that its violation would prove God's existance, anyways; the nice thing about the accepted laws of science is that they change when they are proven wrong, as apposed the the laws and statements of religion. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 06:01 PM
Oh, and this website: http://www.k4t.com/Questions/question12.htm
explains how modern Christians usually explain Adam and Eve's propagation. |
Glamcat
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 07:28 PM
It's nice how they base everything on an average lifespan of 900 years! Very realistic. I'm sure after the first couple of hundred years of life popping out babies and raising them is no problem! |
Coleman
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 08:03 PM
Do you love someone? Your mother, father, your husband/wife...anyone? Prove it.
Can you catch the wind? See a breeze? No, you can see the effects of it, and you can feel its presence. You know when it is there. It is the same with love, and God is love.
There is no better way to prove there is a God besides faith and love. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 08:12 PM
Genesis 4:25, Alex
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare him a son, and called his name Seth blah de blah |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 08:15 PM
Not worth a million dollars, Coleman. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 08:23 PM
I conceed alex, ameoba reproduction isn't really incest, but it sounded good. 😊
Mark-N-Jen - I wasn't suggesting that Eve was dropping sprogs every five minutes only that she had a lot more children than the three listed. (according to my religious classes) |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 09:44 PM
'Eve Dropping Sprogs'. That sounds like it could be a really good name for a band. |
ted2
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 | 09:56 PM
Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. There probably is a corollary that proves God exists - a poster above was refer to Godel's work.
If the inflationary big bang theory is correct, it proves that God exists beyond a reasonable doubt. The possibility that our universe could form without being intentionaly created is one divide by infinity. That is, zero.
Somebody really should make them pay up if they are foolish enough to make such a challenge. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 12:02 AM
How do you know the probabilty of the universe being created unintentionally? Hmm? |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 12:11 AM
If you ask me, it's more like a 1/2 possibility that the universe would appear--in the beginning there was nothing, and either something happens, or something doesn't. |
Glamcat
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 04:15 AM
The bottom line is, there is know way for any of us to prove or disprove the existence of God. Even if a supreme being showed itself to all of us today, by tomorrow there would be all kinds of theories of mass hysteria and why it didn't really happen. It's human nature to question. Personally, I think questioning is a very healthy thing.
It makes perfect sense that the human race would have created the idea of God. It's a very scary thought to think that all life is ultimately meaningless and that we are spinning out here on this planet all by our lonesome with no one watching over us. Personally, it doesn't bother me. I've come to accept that that's a definite possibility.
What I can't accept is bible thumpers who are so convinced that they have all the answers that they can't even open themselves up to even a small possibility that maybe everything they've been taught and are basing their entire lives on might be nothing more than a creation of a frightened mankind. The possibility that maybe, just maybe they're .....wrong! gasp!
The other possibility is that if there is a God, it created us and is no long gone. Face it, we could just be one in a long line of failed experiments. The universe is infinite afterall. (theoretically)
If there is a God, I seriously don't think it sweats the small stuff and I do think it wants us to question and grow and learn.
There are many things will will never know, and we will never know what they are. 😜 |
Timmy
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 06:28 AM
Hi all |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 07:29 AM
God is in Ohio, and he sends this message " I'M IN OHIO". Personally, I have never been there nor wan't to go. God isn't pleased because he never wrote an owners manual. He only gave us higher intelligence so we would communicate better and get along. It back fired. Then he made monkey's. Every one likes monkeys. |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 07:51 AM
Everyone does like monkeys.
I feel bad for those who are allergic, though... |
Mark-N-Jen
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 12:02 PM
Sharruma,
😊 First off... thanks for the smile. That phrase, like Alex said, should be attached to something because for some reason it just makes me smile. 😊
I never said that Eve couldn't do that (drop sprogs every five minutes) or didn't do that or imply that you thought as such... we all know for the most part how long it takes to bake a baby. And I'm sure you're aware of that... or at least have an idea. As I said before, I was merely contributing some biological information about the reproductive system of human females. That their number of eggs are finite and fixed... and that even if she did have MANY children... that it couldn't be some outrageously high number. And I didn't even think or imply that you had said even that. I was taught when I was younger and FORCED to go to church that Eve indeed had more than the three children mentioned and that's how they chose to answer our questions (shut us up) about the beginnings.
I guess I should have been clearer... but as I've stated in other posts I'm not very good at making a point. Sometimes I have to make several attempts before I actually say what I mean. It's a fear of public speaking... and yes, it does indeed bleed over onto public but anonymous forums such as this one. 😊 |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 01:26 PM
For some one that has a fear of public speaking, you seem to have alot to say, have you checked out how much info you type out. |
Mark-N-Jen
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 01:58 PM
Ah, but I never said I wouldn't / didn't do it... just that I wasn't very good at it. Much like other people's spelling... you know still vs. steal??? In life you must overcome things, like public speaking in order to graduate college... and what better way to overcome a fear than by facing it... entered any spelling bees lately Stephen? 😊 Also, if you're trying to tell me something just come out and say it... do you not find my contributions worthy? If I remember correctly you're fairly new here... at least I didn't read any posts from you until recently so yes, maybe I have posted a lot but I've been reading at MOH for over a year... also if you knew the exact circumstances of every post I make you'd know they take me forever to write, I recheck them on a compulsive level before posting, and often worry after posting about possible mistakes... so your psychological evaluation if that's all it was, was rushed and off base. 😊
Besides... how else am I supposed to kill all this time at work??? 😊 |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 03:02 PM
Hey, that wasn't a smack on you, and whats wrong with how I spell "Still" whats your point??? Hello, metal... |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 03:05 PM
J/K.....yes, I'm a horrible speller, I don't even bother to defend my spelling anymore, and yes, when I was in second grade, I came in 2nd place in the spelling Bee. I can probably accomplish that same very task nowadays since that was the smartest I had ever been. |
Mark-N-Jen
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 03:50 PM
Stephen,
No point... like I mentioned before, just trying to kill time at work. 😊 😉
Think I read somewhere that you were rushed about reading or posting a response because of your boss or something? So I'm sure you know what I mean.
😉 |
Mark-N-Jen
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 03:52 PM
Oh man, why doesn't the little winking guy work here? What a bummer, if there really was a God the winking face would work just like the smiley face does... :( |
Mark-N-Jen
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 04:06 PM
PAUL,
You the man! 😉
You sure you're not God?
J/K... |
Sharruma
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 04:08 PM
Paul is God
Excellent 😊
Now I've proved the existance of Paul can I have my $1000000 ?
Thanx 😉 |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 05:51 PM
Sharruma,
You haven't proven the existence of Paul... he could be some propaganda machine / computer designed to infiltrate the MOH and "keep an eye" on us all. 😊 |
Sharruma
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 07:12 PM
Oh :(
I didn't think of that
I suppose anyone could claim to be Paul too, just seeing a post from him doesn't prove he exists :( |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 08:28 AM
Well, I sure as hell am not going to Pray to Paul. How do I know HE is even real. |
Glamcat
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 12:23 PM
We could all take George Carlin's advice and pray to Joe Pesci. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 12:30 PM
I would more then likely pray to George, he seems to have it together.
"When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops" 🐍 |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 03:20 PM
you are right. But I also like Chris Rock and David Chappelle. George and Williams are my favorite. |
daz
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 06:13 PM
of course there is a god, think about it for a moment... they say that god is in everyone that he is all around you no matter where you are, and god is also infinate, and said to have created everything, well there is one thing which scientific evidence shows has all of these qualitys. SPACE, think about it... there is space between the atoms, the very same space to be found in abundance outside of the earths atmostphere, it is absolute nothingness, a void, the void, the very container of infinate nothingness in which everything else exists, god is everything and nothing. |
Glamcat
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 06:25 PM
Infinite, not infinate.
That still doesn't prove anything, does it? |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 11:59 PM
It's kinda hard to say that "space" exists, anyways, it has no attributes-and this lack of attributes includes divine wrath and turning water into wine. |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 03:52 AM
daz, that was all very pretty, but I've thought about it for a moment and it IN NO WAY proves any sort of existence of any sort of deity.
Do not pass 'go', do not collect |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 07:46 AM
Hey, If I met a guy that could turn water into wine, I'd follow him too!!!! But we would need to discuss the idea of "Beer" sometimes. |
april gildea
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 11:33 AM
With out god we would not be alive do you ever think about who did all this who made me .All you know is that your mom had you.And did you ever think why we go to church it is to belive in god. God is the one who made us if he didnt who would why do we pray why do we go to church? It is because of God. |
april gildea
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 11:37 AM
Why do we go to church why do we exist why do we have lives and beautiful familys that care about us why do we have a life it all anwsers up to god he is the one who made us not our parents they just had us we have to believe in him because he does exist. |
Rod
in the land of smarties.
Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 01:15 PM
Wow. That argument is so convincing that I just saw the error of my ways, and am giving myself to jesus.
When do I get the lobotomy so I can communicate with april on the same level? |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 05:43 PM
april gildea said:
"Why do we go to church why do we exist why do we have lives and beautiful familys that care about us why do we have a life it all anwsers up to god he is the one who made us not our parents they just had us we have to believe in him because he does exist."
Who do we have rules of grammar why do we have spelling why can't we just babble on incoherently and expect to be taken seriously why shouldn't we just accept any nonsense that we're told why should we ask questions about the nature of our existance why should we use our damn brains and THINK? |
Rod
in the land of smarties.
Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 05:46 PM
CMG, how many times did you have to beat your head off of a brick wall to be able to type like her?
😕
My god, I'd have to drink tequila (and lots) to force myself to type like that.
:cheese: |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 06:27 PM
Rod said:
"CMG, how many times did you have to beat your head off of a brick wall to be able to type like her?
"My god, I'd have to drink tequila (and lots) to force myself to type like that."
Well, I'm one of those boring people who doesn't drink or do drugs. No, I'm not religious or anything like that AND I grew up in NYC where, God knows, all of my friends did every substance they could shove into any orifice. I have a lot of alcoholics in my family so I figured intoxication would be a bad choice of hobbies for me. The fact is that I've never been high or drunk in my life. Scary, huh?
As for my response to April, I just pretended my cerebral cortex, like Terri Schiavo's, had turned into liquid and the prose just flowed from my digits. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 07:53 PM
There are a group of physicists in the world that are currently trying to prove that string theory is accurate.
Part of string theory suggests that there are a number of alternate universes in neighbouring dimensions (sounds like bad fifties sci-fi)
They, apparently also beleive that Gravitons can move from parallel universe to parallel universe and so are trying to prove the existance of these other universes by creating Gravitons and then watching for them to disappear.
True, none of this will actually prove the existence of a deity. But if somehow they prove infinite parallel universes (in the same way as if the universe itself was actually infinite.) then probability is actually turned on it's head. Not only would god exist but every creature and deity you could imagine not only would but must exist.
However.. The actual proof of the existence of an actual deity still wouldn't be physically provable and however large a number might get it is unlikely to ever be infinite.
It's very hard to find an instance of infinity in nature, the only one I can think of is if you stand between two mirrors and I'm not sure about that simply because that optical illusion is all based on the speed of light. The illusion might stretch and stretch and appear to be infinite the longer you're between the mirrors but it is still finite
Time - Time cannot be infinite because by definition infinite would mean it would have to be both infinite in the past as well as the future and if it were infinite in the past we'd never get to where we are now. Time is either curved or simultaneous.
Space - Space (not the planets therein) could actually be infinite but this has yet to be proved. Again it could be curved or maybe it's bounded by a brick wall beyond which is the realm of the gods.
Perhaps the entire universe is a piece of fluff on a policeman's uniform, or a piece of snot up the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure. Who can really say? |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 | 11:56 PM
Sharruma said:
"Perhaps the entire universe is a piece of fluff on a policeman's uniform,
or a piece of snot up the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure. Who can
really say?"
FINALLY, someone who shares my cosmology! Hey, Sharruma, want to join the First Church of Snot? In it, blowing your nose is a sacrament. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 | 12:12 AM
It's tempting 😊 |
Paul in Prague
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 | 06:08 AM
Sharruma wrote: "If somehow they prove infinite parallel universes ... every creature and deity you could imagine not only would but must exist."
Tommyrot! Every *evolutionary physical possibility* would be played out; if a God is not an evolutionary physical possibility then in no universe whould He/She/It evolve.
"by definition infinite would mean it would have to be both infinite in the past as well as the future"
No - you can have infinity stretching in one direction from a point.
"It's very hard to find an instance of infinity in nature"
Pi? The Golden Mean? etc etc...
:coolhmm: |
Sharruma
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 | 11:26 AM
In infinity everything is not just possible but probable, not just physical possibilities but also metaphysical possibilities and even fantasies. Whos to say that gravity pulls you downwards in a parallel universe where the laws of physics might be totally different.
When did time start then? I've heard some claim it began with the big bang, but the big bang was an event and you need time already in existance for an event to take place. No, infinity must work in all possible directions or it is not, by definition infinite.
Pi describes a circle. I've already said that infinity might be perceived where a curve is involved, after all on a ring where does it start and where does it end? Pi can also be written as 22/7 (looks quite finite to me)
As for the golden mean, I've never heard of it, but I expect there's a curve involved there somewhere. |
tasha
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 09:42 AM
ooooooook i didt understand word of what tim sed ? but what if ppl in da uk prove god exists do we get |
tasha
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 10:04 AM
ill be god if ya like 😝 just as long as u giv me da million wen ya get it as god i order u 2 do tht 😊 wow only god cud werk da smileys 😜 |
Rod
in the land of smarties.
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 10:53 AM
Tell you believers what.
Send in all of the "proof" that you posted here to the guy offering the cash. When you get the million, let us know. Until then, go find something else to do.
"there has 2 b sum truth bhinbd it otherwise where did we get the whole idea from ?" - tasha
Is this really why you spend your life believing in something? Where would people get the idea? If that is all it take to prove that god exists, then I have to tell you something. There is actually a variety of grass that can speak English. The CIA uses it to spy in other countries by dropping seeds from aircraft and then picking up the grass clippings from various mulch piles around the world, re-animating the dead grass, and interrogating it.
It HAS to be true. Otherwise where did I get the idea from? |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 11:40 AM
Tasha,
In answer to your incredibly stupid question of "there has 2 b sum truth bhinbd it otherwise where did we get the whole idea from ? who would make something like tht up ??"
Who would make something like that up is an incredibly stupid, ignorant, egotistical species that have a burning NEED to fill important, the most important if you will. In order to attain meaning they make up meaning, they make something like that up to justify themselves... because they're STUPID and don't know any better. They show their stupidity through acts like believing things because they can't comprehend someone just "making" something like that up.
They're called humans... and you're a fine, shining example...
😉 |
Sharruma
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 12:30 PM
Tasha, to answer your question without insulting you
When the first caveman found something he or she couldn't understand such as why the sun set in the same place every day or why rivers always flowed in the same direstion, they created gods to help explain it for them.
As we learn what actually happens to create these phenomena the need for gods becomes less and less
We don't need a god of the sun to control the length of the day, we don't need a god of rivers to control their flow. We don't need to sacrifice to gods of harvest to feed our children.
As we learn, our need for gods diminishes. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 01:17 PM
Soooooo, we're not supposed to worship the SUN???
Now my life is turned upside down. Next thing you going to say is that there really isn't a Magical bunny that comes out once a year who's soul purpose in life is to celebrate a day a carpenter, that some how arose from the dead (on another day), by hiding colorful chicken eggs in bushes. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 02:45 PM
I didn't say you couldn't
I said WE didn't need
As Santa Claus is my witness I'm not about to tell anyone what they can or can't believe in. |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 02:53 PM
YOU LIE....you are mocking me! you said "WE" as in you and me. I don't even know you, but yet you tell us we can't worship the SUN. We like to worship the SUN. Now, I assume you worship this "Santa Claus" since you summon him as a witness, but I bet My god can burn yours!! Santa fears him, thats why he only travels in the winter, at night. |
Sharruma
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 04:37 PM
Okay, okay you got me
When I say WE I mean you
The Sun wouldn't be happy if I turned my back on him/her too
As for Santa Claus, I know he exists, I get coal from him every year. |
Raoul
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 04:56 PM
God must exist, for he has sent me a CD of music from Baltimore, USA. Noone can deny that this band, Barnacle Billy and The Platonic Solids are divinely provided. Noone can reject their mystical power, not even I, Rrrrraoul, The Musical Fruit |
Sharruma
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 | 07:03 PM
proof positive
Advance directly to Go
Collect $1000000 |
teryn
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 | 01:12 PM
umm tim i dont really understand all that....
but i think god doesn't exist. where's the proof theres heaven, where's the proof theres hell??
plus wasn't jesus supposed to come back alive or something?
and what about the other theories they have about the universe and the "big bang".
also what if theres life on other planets, would god have made that.
plus where the proof about noah and his ark could he really take crocodiles and elephants and ants on his ark??
and wasnt the bible written about 40 years after all this jesus stuff happened.
and how come all these horrid quakes have happened and killed so many people that prayed to god in indonesia.
there just isnt proof he exist's |
Rod
in the land of smarties.
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 | 02:35 PM
Ah! The birth of the questioning mind, right before our eyes.
:wow:
It amazes me how people cannot question their own beliefs, and not be able to prove them in any way, and keep on believing, just because it makes them feel better.
Question everything. Life is more complicated that way, but it also clears up a lot of bullshit when you do question things. |
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