MOH Forum: A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?

A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?

Posted By:
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Nov 14, 2004

I received this chain letter in my mailbox:

Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.

***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)

What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452

Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??

Category: Scams; Replies: 1759

Comments

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Mike	Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 \| 05:12 AM How did I know Cranky would chime in even though he has nothing to offer? My logic proves that you are a hypocrite. You beat the drum its the law, but I'm guessing you routinely break the law by driving 60 mph. Thats all I was saying. Once again, I'll spell out my point for YOU, as you seem to be the only one who is having trouble. If you must know, and its none of your business, I'm looking for data to show that it truly is a scam; that you will lose $ every time. So far that data isn't there, or at least in this forum. I want to know how people have made out, good or bad. Hearing from 4 people in a forum of 45 PAGES is not enough, and I know more than 4 people have tried this. So far, based on the responses I've seen here, one can at least make their illegal investment back. Is that true 75% of the time? Again,these questions aren't for you Crank. Please let someone else get a word in if they wish.
Mike	Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 \| 05:16 AM Thank you, Darn Blister, for adding to the discussion. It seems those links you provided all showed poor results. That's very helpful.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 \| 01:43 PM Mike said: "You beat the drum its the law, but I'm guessing you routinely break the law by driving 60 mph." Ah, you GUESS that I do that and based on your GUESS, you somehow come to the conclusion that I am a "hypocrite." Wow, you just can't argue with "logic" like that. "Please let someone else get a word in if they wish." I am in no way preventing anyone from saying whatever they want, nor do I have the ability to do that. Read what Elizabeth wrote. She's 100 percent correct about why chain letters CANNOT work as claimed.
Dude	Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 \| 09:35 PM "When in doubt, throw it out." It's not worth risking going to jail. I threw mine away. I do understand the feelings of those of you who are compelled to try it though. We should all try to help each other in this cruel world. I found some info. online reinforcing the fact that Oprah has nothing to do with the chain letter. I read the legal links provided above by Kosmo and wonder how Publisher's Clearing House and others get away with their "Lotteries" by US Mail.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 \| 12:19 AM Dude in MS. said: "I read the legal links provided above by Kosmo and wonder how Publisher's Clearing House and others get away with their "Lotteries" by US Mail." If you read PCH's material, they are careful to tell you that you do NOT need to make a purchase in order to win. They also do not make any claims that everyone can or will win. That's why it's legal.
Dana	Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 \| 03:52 PM I got this same letter, and I noticed that the return address was in a different state than the postmark. No lie. Return address is Jo-Ann Culver, 75 Brook Rd., Lancaster, NH 03584 and it's postmarked White River Junction, VT!!!!! I googled it, it would be a 1hr43min drive. Why go to the trouble? ILLEGAL!
Tammy	Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 \| 07:46 PM Just so some of you understand, the postmaster Does not make law nor do they enforce them so, if your asking them you are not well informed.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 \| 12:52 AM Tammy said: "Just so some of you understand, the postmaster Does not make law nor do they enforce them so, if your asking them you are not well informed." What's your point, Tammy? No one has claimed that the Postmaster General makes laws. There ARE laws concerning the mail, however, and they expressly forbid the type of chain letter we've been discussing; they've been quoted here several times already. That's the relevant point here.
Jess	Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 \| 10:25 PM I also received that letter and sent the copies. I really was just bored and had all the materials in hand so I thought why not? I received another letter in the mail two days after I sent them off. I thought I should have researched it a little more so I took a moment to google the codes in the letter and found they were illegal. I had no idea. I am someone who has never even had a traffic violation. I would never do something illegal. I feel really bad that I sent letters out to people. Also, the first post on here has listed someone's name. That's probably not a good idea. They are people who just fell for it (like me) and ordered a mailing list. No need to smear their name and publicly list their address. All of the people who send these letters are getting your address (and 199 other addresses) from a mailing list company that finds addresses of people (they claim) are looking for new ways to make money. I don't know how my address came up on that but it did. Anyway, I too am super freaked out to know that I took part in that. I had no idea. It sounded like it could work for everyone and it talked about giving money to charity and paying taxes, and gosh if Oprah thinks it's a good idea then I'll try it. hah. But seriously, I hope this gets swept away quickly and that nobody turns in my name or posts it on a website. Everyone who is sending the letters at this point are just victims of the original person who wrote it (who is long gone by now). My theory- US postal service (which is a privately owned company as of last year) or one or all of the companies listed that sell mailing labels.
Chuck Eufarley	Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 \| 05:19 PM Illegal this, illegal that. I freaking hate lawyers. Also hate Big Brother telling me ways I can't make money in a nation professing to be Capitalist. Can hardly wait for revolution to come to the streets of Amerika. Shouldn't be long now, especially given the rising unemployment rate, the rising cost of everything, a full-blown recession and the recent real estate fiasco that will enslave the American taxpayer for 30 more years to the tune of an additional $700 Billion. Yes, folks. This single bailout plan will cost us, the taxpaying citizens, more than the entire six year long Iraqi and Afghani war has cost. And this US government has the audacity to tell me how I can't build wealth! Long live Federalism!
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 \| 12:05 AM Chuck, your logic seems to be, "The government is a bunch of big crooks so why can't I be a SMALL crook?" Chain letters are illegal because they CANNOT work as claimed. "And this US government has the audacity to tell me how I can't build wealth!" The only way wealth can be "built" via a chain letter is if you are the person who starts one and you don't mind lying to and ripping off your fellow citizens. What does that have to do with Federalism?
hcmomof4 in So. Cal. Member	Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 \| 06:21 PM Jess in Cali said: "US postal service (which is a privately owned company as of last year..." Uh.... no.....
JoJo	Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 \| 12:41 AM I've always heard of those illegal chain letters and always wondered how can anybody really fall for this, even if it's just a hundred bucks or so... A few days ago I received one and I read it very carefully and I realized that it's a great advertising campaign for the owner of the mailing list mentioned in the letter, charging $45 for 100 names and so on. That's the one making money from the naive, the desperate and the careless.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 \| 12:53 AM No, the U.S. Postal Service is not a private company. They've empowered it to operate like one but it's still a government agency. The Postmaster General is a Cabinet official.
The Darn Blister	Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 \| 06:52 PM Chuck... chain letters involving money haven't been legal since the 1930s, long before the current administration. Go do your homework before ranting again.
Dan	Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 \| 04:17 PM This website explains the entire scheme involved here. Whether or not you have been involved in this scheme or have made money using it is irrelevant. I just hope that you will read this and learn a valuable lesson about your money. http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/pyramid.html Take the $80 you would have spent on copies, envelopes, and stamps, and just donate it all to your local homeless shelter, church, or food pantry. It takes much less time, and you will feel much better about yourself knowing you have done something good and were not suckered into such a stupid scam. -Dan
Shane	Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 \| 06:34 PM Mr. Cranky Media Guy I find you absolutely fascinating. A man that would spend 4 years on a discussion thread. I have spent over a hour going through your responses from over the years, and the I don
hcmomof4 in So. Cal. Member	Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 \| 08:20 PM Shane, the other possibility is that CMG has a strong dislike of rip-off artists. Also, (and yes, I'm kinda pulling numbers out of my ass here) it's likely that his average per day amount of time spent responding to this thread is probably something under 1 min/24 hrs, over the last four years. Seems like a fairly low time-consuming hobby to me....
Cranky Media Guy Member	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 01:03 AM Shane, I find your fascination with me fascinating. Hcmomof4 has it right. It doesn't really consume that much of my time to post on this board. It amounts to a few minutes here, a few minutes there basically. I've long been interested in scams, hoaxes and the like. One of the things that surprises me is that otherwise intelligent people (presumably anyway) can be taken in by a scam which is so obviously mathematically impossible. The idea that since I'm concerned with this, I "must" have been a victim of a chain letter at some point has been bandied about before. It is incorrect. I know too much about these things to get involved with them. I try to keep in mind that, as you said, when the economy goes south, "get rich quick" schemes tend to flourish. If my comments can keep some people from throwing their much-needed money away on something like a chain letter, then the few minutes I spend here seem worthwhile. Does that REALLY seem indicative of mental illness to you?
Jess	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 12:10 PM Cranky Media- Ok- empowered to run as a private company is somewhat of the same thing sir. Standards change when that happens and that was my point. I'm not saying we have some big government conspiracy to sell more postage, but it's feasible, especially in economic hard times. The point is that the only entities to benefit from such a letter are mailing list services and the the US Postal Service. We have a family friend at US Postal, which is where I got the info. I believe he would know if he is employed by the government or a private entity now, and I don't mean that with any disrespect or sassy tone. Some may have noticed Post Offices are now in grocery stores and they stay open till all hours of the night. You can send a package at midnight. It's because they are no longer a government agency. Smaller cities may not have noticed yet but where I live in San Francisco, it is very well known. I can argue til I'm blue in the face but there will always be those people who believe they are right and refuse to look into someone else's points. My issue is that I sent out letters and wish I hadn't. My boyfriend went to Yale Law and told me not to worry and that I'm last on any lists of people who will get in trouble for that, because you have to knowingly do something illegal in the case of chain letters. He said the last chain letter case where a single citizen was actually tried was in the 50's and that it was thrown out when the guy argued that the only entity who really had something to gain was the US Postal Service. I've decided not worry about it anymore and to just let it be. My boyfriend said he doubts I'll even get a dollar mailed to me, and that whatever I do get I just put in my pocket. Although I would rather return it with a note apologizing and stating I didn't know it was not legal. He said I could do that too, whatever floats my boat. He actually laughed at me for being all bent out of shape over it and said that this is law school 101 and that at Yale this was covered in the first week and was a comical topic. He said his mentor said if you ever get a client who brings you one of these, tell them they are being silly and send them home because it's "BS". Good luck to everyone and I hope you guys who sent letters stop stressing. It should be okay.
Cranky Media Guy Member	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 01:57 PM Jess, I didn't say the U.S. Postal Service WAS a private company. I said it was empowered to act more LIKE one. As I said, the Postmaster General (the person in charge of the U.S. postal system) is a Cabinet official. Do you understand what that means? It means that he/she is a Federal official who meets with other Federal department heads at the White House with the president. The Postmaster General is actually part of the line of succession for the presidency. Not real high up the line, mind you, but still in line for the job if something disastrous were to happen. As for you getting in trouble for participating in a chain letter, that's been covered more than once in this thread. Yes, the likelihood of you being prosecuted is pretty low. That doesn't make a chain letter LEGAL, though. It just means that there are bigger fish to fry, so to speak, for the prosecutors. People who RUN a chain letter are a different matter, however. If you go back a ways in this thread, you'll see links to cases brought against chain letter operators much more recently than the 1950's. The notion that chain letters are promoted by the Postal Service is laughable. The U.S.P.S. handles BILLIONS of pieces of mail every year without breaking its own laws. Don't you think it would be a rather large scandal, causing heads to roll, if it turned out the Postal Service was promoting a felony on a national scale?
Jess	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 03:37 PM Absolutely. I believe anything is possible and if our president will receive oral sex in the white house and lie about it (which caused zero heads to roll besides that of the person who told on him, by the way) then yes, our very own US Postal service has a huge ability to promote a scandal and go unnoticed. The thing about government officials is that they are just like you and me- many are worse on a morale scale and very often think they are ABOVE the very laws they create and prosecute citizens for. I think it is very naive and irresponsible to have complete faith in your government- a huge group of humans (like you and me) who have too much power and half of which only manipulated enough people into thinking they are good enough to be where they are. They're all the same and Mr. and Mrs. Smith in rural Indiana would never think there are scandals- that's the point. There have been hundreds of government scandals throughout history involving senators, governors, and even presidents. Somehow the liberal media always makes people like you have faith and even go as far as to defend the crooked people in politics. It happens on a small scale with ego trip cops, and on a large scale with ridiculous laws, taxes and scandals including our very own president and not excluding the possibility of the postal service. Also, I did not refer to the people who started chain letters. I referred to people like me- common citizens who unknowingly took part. Yes they have gone after major people who started them (and in a lenient manner- first giving them the option to make it right and return the money). They only followed through on many of these internet chain letter prosecutions when the ring leaders refused to stop. I'm not really sure what it is you and I are arguing about. We both agree chain letters are illegal. I admit I sent one and had no idea. I more or less came to this site to get it off my chest and let others know they aren't the only normal people who fell for it. I'm not a math person by any stretch of imagination and for some reason I thought the system in my chain letter sounded feasible. Learning experience for me, but it would be such a shame if people like me (extremely law abiding) were in trouble for being naive and not knowing. It would also be a shame if our stellar government had anything to do with the start of some of these things.
hcmomof4 in So. Cal. Member	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 04:44 PM Jess said: "We have a family friend at US Postal, which is where I got the info. I believe he would know if he is employed by the government or a private entity now..." Uh, Jess, I'm MARRIED to a mail carrier. I KNOW where his checks come from. "Some may have noticed Post Offices are now in grocery stores and they stay open till all hours of the night. You can send a package at midnight. It's because they are no longer a government agency." Those are "contract stations". They have a CONTRACT with the USPS, but they are not the USPS.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 05:26 PM Jess said: "Absolutely. I believe anything is possible and if our president will receive oral sex in the white house and lie about it (which caused zero heads to roll besides that of the person who told on him, by the way) then yes, our very own US Postal service has a huge ability to promote a scandal and go unnoticed." So your "logic" is that because Bill Clinton got a blowjob in the White House and wasn't successfully impeached, the Post Office is promoting chain letters? OK, I'm going to ask a question and I'm almost frightened to see your answer. Here goes: Why would the U.S. Postal Service, which as I said handles BILLIONS of pieces of mail every year, want to get involved in the illegal business of chain letters? Bottom line: COULD the Postal Service run chain letters, if for some bizarre reason it wanted to? Yes. Is it doing so? No.
Shane	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 06:07 PM I suppose not maybe it is just my first thoughts after reading these posts. It would drive me crazy to listen and have to explain to people over and over again why this wont work. Yes it is very obviously mathematically impossible. This is probably all stuff you have said in the past but I figure a refresh cant hurt. I want to put in my 2 cents because I thought of the equation earlier, and more people in economic hard times are likely to get screwed by this scam because they are not think with there brains, but there emotions. I think this also means I am going to start getting more of these letters because I am on some mailing list somewhere. It
Jess	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 06:44 PM You guys clearly like to argue. Media- When you make such a ridiculous correlation between my chain letter theory (not a fact, but a theory, among others) and Bill Clinton not getting impeached- it is ridiculous. I can only assume you are smarter than that and hope you know that is obviously NOT the point I was making. Arguing that with you would be the biggest joke and waste of my time at this point, as you've already proven your mind is in left field and anything I say will be mangled into something completely ridiculous and so beyond normal that it would be like arguing with a ten year old about whether grass is forrest green or olive green. I've accepted that you clearly disagree and would rather chalk all mail chain letters up to greedy swindlers (who are looking to spend 30 bucks on a mailing list and 100 bucks on stamps) hoping to get some kind of return. That is your opinion and your right to have. I however am open to ANYONE being behind the recent chain letter situation, and refuse to assume that every letter originated from a single scam artist looking to get rich. The US Postal service does have a head government official in charge, however it operates as a private business would and different from normal sectors of the government. You can sue them, they can sue you, etc. I wish I could say more but I really do not know, as I said my information is third hand. It was not even the point of my original point and I find it exhausting that a couple people have camped out on it. I am sorry if my post office going private information (which is third hand) has ruined anyone's day. I will definitely be looking into it further after this fuss. Also, in the future, I will try really hard to not quote family friends and only trust random condescending wives of mail carriers on online forums. *The point of my original comment (where my last line stating US Postal is private as of last year) was said in passing and in closing to the main reason I made a post to begin with. For anyone who cares, wanted to tell my experience- that I am embarrassed I sent out letters not knowing it wasn't legal- and that I hope nothing bad comes of it. I also hoped to let some of those single moms who posted that they were scared know that they were not alone. Thank you to the people who missed the point and concentrated on the only thing in that post that I really didn't care about to begin with. You've been a successful help in detouring myself and others from the original concern of getting in trouble for taking part in a chain letter. I had just hoped to get some kind of nice response such as "it will be okay" or "I understand, I did the same thing". Instead I got a much unneeded argument as to the logistics of the US Postal Service. Fabulous.
hcmomof4 in So. Cal. Member	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 06:49 PM Jess, I suppose in this case, believing the Post Office may not seem like such a swell idea to you, but from http://www.usps.com/postalhistory/welcome.htm "The United States Postal Service
Jess	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 07:00 PM One more thing.. My boyfriend and I went to Bermuda last week and he asked his driver on the way to the airport about the chain letter and if he had ever gotten one (because I was so freaked out in the car and needed input) His driver (of 15 years) said he got the same letter in 1982 and that he mailed out copies and eventually received 18,000 dollars in return. He said 5 of his friends did it and got nothing. I think it is just where you get in and that it has to be the right time. His driver said he didn't tell anyone and just kept the money. He also didn't know it was illegal until after the fact and was scared to claim it because he thought it would raise a red flag. Just some info. That was 1982 though. It doesn't work for many, but there are probably a few who have benefited. Plus there is a new generation of people out there who don't know anything about chain letters or if they work, and they are the perfect prey for new scams. My girlfriend is a really cute pharmaceutical rep who went to college, dresses nice, and I who I would say is really smart. She told me at dinner one night that she got this email from a lawyer in Africa who needed someone to help with money left to his client and that they would give her 10% and they only needed her bank account number. She seriously was considering it. I told her never give your bank account number to anyone, but she said what if she opened a new account and put nothing in it, then what could they take if it was a scam? She ended up not doing it, but there is a whole new generation of people who know nothing about scams and chain letters and legality, and a lot of really smart people get taken in by these things.
Travo Fett	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 07:15 PM Believe it or not, I have read this darn thing all the way through. It's like a soap opera. O.k., I've received this letter twice now. They arrived after I've done some research on home business or investment opportunities. It is clear that my name and address is added to a list that includes all the people who are looking to get ahead in their lives. I for one, will not be participating in this. But the idea is really good. My thinking is, what if it was done as donation for each other. Would that make it illegal? The whole idea of the "Pay It Foward" comes to mind. What a great movie by the way. Could this idea be changed to where we donated money or invested into one another? I don't see why not. What's to stop me from donating a dollar to Cranky? It seems that everyone on this forum has a common goal. We're looking for that disposable income, or otherwise we would not have been on that mailing list to begin with. I do not know if this idea has been mentioned, but I'm looking for a response. I haven't sat down and done the math, but if we donated to each other I don't see how we could get into any kind of mailing fraud simply because it is a donation. If you guys think this would work better let me know. I'd be glad to get something started. It's time for the little people to start looking out for one another.
Shane Randall	Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 \| 09:17 PM Travo Fett "Believe it or not, I have read this darn thing all the way through." And you still dont get it after reading all of this information. No wonder Cranky, I get it. Everyone thinks thinks they have a new way to read this thing. Instead of your "Pay It Foward" idea Lets go to work without pay, and donate a dollars amongst 20 of our co-workers while playing musical chairs the opposite way its intended.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 \| 12:45 AM Travo Fett said: "My thinking is, what if it was done as donation for each other. Would that make it illegal? The whole idea of the "Pay It Foward" comes to mind." I give you a dollar and you give me a dollar. No one comes out ahead. What would the point be?
The Darn Blister	Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 \| 05:46 AM If you aren't a formally recognized charity, do NOT attempt to use "Pay It Forward" for anything monetary! That is the reverse of what the film was about, and puts you into the extremely hot legal waters that cash gifting programs are finding themselves in of late.
Travo Fett	Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 \| 07:52 AM I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that my question was not answered. But at the same time - I'm intelligent enough to already know the answer. I've already given away my hard earned money to less fortunate people in distress, and I did not organize a formally recognized charity program. My wife and I have been known to pay for other families' Christmas. Not to mention that I give a dollar to some of the children in my neighborhood for no good reason what so ever. I'm aware that none of you guys know me, and I might sound like a Democrat when I say the things that I say. To be honest - I'm conservative in my views. I try to do my part in trying to disprove the "Dog eat Dog" mentality. I admit that it is a struggle. I already know that you guys will think what I'm about to say is a load of crap but I'm going to say it anyways. The only reason why I want to be rich is to help other people in need. I'm an electrician, and I plan on staying an electrician even if somewhere down the road I become an millionaire. My idea is not to get me rich. My idea is to help everyone on that list that data line has. Cranky and Mr. Randall - what you said made no sense. It would not work the way you put it. I'm talking about using the same format as the original letter. I'm sorry Blister, do you have anything else to back your claim? There are a lot of folks out there that would be in trouble for helping out other people. I'm aware that you guys know this already - donating is tax deductible. To me, giving money to people in need is a really great feeling. You're right I do feel like I can find a new way of reading that letter. I'm trying to clean it up or fix it instead of knocking the idea. That is what this forum, in my opinion, is suppose to be about. I certainly hope that I did not offend anyone with what I have said, and if I did - I'm sorry. A response in an attempt to try and make me feel stupid is not constructive. I'm not here to fight. I'm here to improve. So, back to the beginning: Does donations through the mail make it illegal? Only one person has given me an answer. That would be Blister. Blister, I do not believe in what you say 100%. But I'm giving you a benefit of a doubt. You may be right. Support your answer, don't attack me. If you need to be a formally recognized charity - how do you accomplish this? Help me research this claim that you have made. I'm looking for solutions. Have a good weekend.
momblessedx3	Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 \| 12:57 PM well I can see where everyone is in an uproar about this letter. But as far as why you recieved it...it states in the letter and the company we purchased our list from that you must have gone on a website looking for ways to make money. This I defiantely did. ANd I am sure most if not all who recieved it did as well. yes lists are also sold from some credit companies as well. whatever, you got it. Stop fretting over it. either do it or toss it. Not really your business if anyone else does it or not. Its their choice to send it, its their choice to send the $6 too. So its their risk not yours. no worries. You can just say NO. We did it and I am sure it will work out.
Shane	Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 \| 02:13 PM Travo Fett says
The Darn Blister	Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 \| 04:17 AM Giving on an individual basis doesn't need a charity. It's when the giving becomes organized, resembles a business, or takes on lottery characteristics that the laws come into effect. Chain letters are, according to the judges of the USPS (see page 40 of this thread for some links to court cases), a lottery being illegally run through the mails. If you use the Internet or a phone to post your letter, you hit an even worse situation... The relevant federal statute, 18 U.S.C. sec. 1343, reads as follows: "Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both." That was copied from http://www.thirdamendment.com/mmf.html, but you can also find it, word for word, in any law library in the country. Oh, and momblessedx3? Try looking up the Send-A-Dime Letter. It happened in 1935 and almost destroyed Colorado's economy in under 100 days. You might also want to look up the following: "Karen Liddell" "CW in NJ" (his story is on mmfhoh.org) Notice how both of these people ruined their own lives with such a letter?
Cranky Media Guy Member	Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 \| 01:45 PM Silly Blister, with your FACTS and stuff. Belief in things like chain letters is like religion; people just WANT to believe that they work and no amount of factual information will dissuade them. The GOOD news is that not everyone is irrational like that. There's always at least a few who will listen to reason. Those are the ones we keep this thread going for. Chain letters don't work, CAN'T work as claimed and are illegal. Other than that, though...
James D	Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 \| 09:11 AM 🐛 Wow I have nothing to say on this matter. I just wanted to comment on how This thread has been going on for over 4 years, I've never read a thread this long. And Cranky Media Guy, Kudos for sticking with it for so long. Wow
Bellasera	Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 \| 09:34 PM Whoa, this has it all. Drama, comedy, zany misunderstandings and even a little social philosophy. Should be optioned for a cable movie any day now. I rec'd one of the letters and was just checking around about it but I didn't expect to be so entertained! Oh, and thanks for the info too.
reneeren	Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 \| 03:42 PM Has anyone thought of the fact that there is no oversight in regards to making sure everyone on the list gets paid $1? What's to stop someone from putting their name on the list without paying the $1?
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 \| 04:41 PM reneeren said: "Has anyone thought of the fact that there is no oversight in regards to making sure everyone on the list gets paid $1? What's to stop someone from putting their name on the list without paying the $1?" Well, you're supposed to send a dollar to each of five people (or whatever number it asks for.) They are then supposed to send money to others. If you didn't enclose money with your letter, why would the people you sent it to help you by forwarding your name? This kind of misses the point, though, that chain letters CANNOT make every participant come out ahead, even if everyone follows the "rules."
Shane	Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 \| 11:43 AM Well it almost goes without saying. Also I think thats the least of peoples worries. The people who try this scam that is.
Shane	Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 \| 11:49 AM Cranky I think you need a refresh on this. The way you put it is not the way it states. You dont send money to the people who are to forward your name. It goes the other way around sort of, but not the way you put it.
Chris	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 05:20 AM This is ALL besides the point. Does it work? have you tried it? Tell me. Try it. Let me no. Please
cooldude	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 09:53 AM i think cranky started the letter... its been 3 years cranky. what are you getting out of this? you must be really miserable and bitter to be on a board for 3 fucking years. i mean seriously, who argues ONE subject on an internet forum for 3 years? It's mind-boggling.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 01:36 PM Dear cooldude, please look up the definition of "ad hominem attack."
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 01:45 PM Chris said: "This is ALL besides the point. Does it work? have you tried it? Tell me. Try it. Let me no. Please" That question has been answered over and over and over in this thread. Please read some of it.
Shane	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 01:54 PM Chris your ignorant, actually read some of the posts, then learn the difference between "No and Know, unless that a drunken typo.. Cooldude ignorant I would like to call you double ignorant. But actually Cranky has been posting closer to 4 years, and this scam has been around more than 10 years in e-mail form. I remember seeing this scam in junk e-mail form when I was a teenager. Cranky I had never heard of "ad hominem attack." I looked it up in Wikipedia, interesting term, it definetly fits.
Chris	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 04:01 PM lol what ever dudes. i guess im just to ignorant but what if i know im ignorant im then arogrant. hmmm. fuck it. ill make money my way. the MJ way
Shane	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 04:34 PM No it would not make you arrogant just more ignorant. Just like me Im ignorant of the the MJ money way. I dont know what that is, therefore it does not make me arrogant, but ignorant of the MJ way, because I have no clue what you are talking about. I could put two words together and say "Mamas Job", but I would still be ignorant.
Chris	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 05:25 PM Correction. I know im arrogant and by definition of the word if i know im arrogant i cease to be ignorant of the fact im arrogant. Heard of a little thing called Mary Jane.
Shane	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 08:23 PM "exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner" In order to be arrogant you would have to know what you are talking about. Excuse me "no" what you are talking about then have overbearing pride and confidence about it. You cannot even comprehend Websters definitions therefore you are un-capable of arrogance. Go smoke your mama job, or sell it maybe that is actually something you can be arrogant about. Good luck in your ventures. At least the MJ way you can hopefully weigh out risk factors, initial investment and then return. So Keep it simple Chris.
Chris	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 08:38 PM Go smoke your mama job, or sell it maybe that is actually something you can be arrogant about. Good luck in your ventures. At least the MJ way you can hopefully weigh out risk factors, initial investment and then return. So Keep it simple Chris. End Quote. Wow man you have successfully screwed with my head. Damn you! taking advantage of an 18 year old naive stoner lol. Cheers for encouragement. I know this is totally off topic but check out this is music video by the human revolution. It talks about hemp (marijuana and hemp are two very different plants) and how it can create a sustainable future. Fuel, nutritious (highly) food, rope as strong as carbon fiber, building material stronger than steel and concrete (no joke), paper, and best of it is a WEED and as such requires zero fertilizers or pesticides and it naturally replenishes the soil. Sorry to yak on people but i firmly believe this plant holds the key to a sustainable planet. So heres the link http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ2J4V39s-8
Shane	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 09:40 PM LMFAO All the more power to you Chris. Grow hemp Make Rope, and stay away from Pyramid Scams. Still LMFAO.
Chris	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 10:08 PM Even tho im smiling i fail to see the humor. It aint no joke my friend that this one plant, Hemp, can do more than many other useless crap. But thats the thing if hemp was grown widely there d be no need for the paper mills, oil companys, gas companys, coal companys, nylon rope companys, paint companys, even pvc pipe etc etc etc etc. The bottom line is that the above business's generate way to much money and have way to much power. Hence why hemp was banned in the first place. Did you know the first American flag was made of hemp? and the first constitution. Jefferson and Washington grew it in there own backyard and called for us to make the most of it. Henry Fords first car had hemp parts on it (brakes, plastic stronger than steel) and he even intended for it to run on hemp derived fuel.
Chris	Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 \| 10:13 PM If you dont believe me do your own research. I firmly believe the banning of hemp is one of the dumbest and most regretful mistakes the Yanks have made. Around the 1900's it was LAW that taxes were paid in hemp. No shit! Wars were fought over hemp. Napoleon went to war with Russia and England to try and gain control of the hemp trade. To this day France still makes there money out of hemp!
alice	Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 \| 07:17 PM Actually everyone who says to refer to Title 18, section 1302 &1341;of the US Postal and Lottery Laws to convict this chainletter is wrong because it is not illegal. this is no scam because you are not selling or asking anyone for money what-so-ever. get your stories straight.
Cranky Media Guy	Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 \| 01:09 AM Alice said: "Actually everyone who says to refer to Title 18, section 1302 &1341;of the US Postal and Lottery Laws to convict this chainletter is wrong because it is not illegal. this is no scam because you are not selling or asking anyone for money what-so-ever. get your stories straight." What chain letter are you referring to, Alice? If you mean the one quoted at the top of this page, it most certainly DOES ask for money as you can plainly see. If you're talking about some other chain letter, could you please give us some specifics?
Shane	Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 \| 07:12 PM Yep definetly does ask people for money. 1 dollar. Alice Maybe you should get your Scams, and your stories straight.
Jazz	Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 \| 09:23 AM I just recently got one of those letters. I guess the amount you send has gone up since my letter says to send $2 to each person. On another note, I can't believe that this forum has gone on for this long. Wow!
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