The Museum of Hoaxes
A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?
Posted By:
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Nov 14, 2004
 I received this chain letter in my mailbox:

Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.

***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)

What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452

Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??
Category: Scams; Replies: 1759

Comments
Page 13 of 30 pages ‹ First  < 11 12 13 14 15 >  Last ›
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 | 01:37 PM
"Cranky needs Jesus.....Let go and see God."

If "letting go and seeing God" would cause me to believe that it's OK to run a chain letter and scam my fellow citizens, no thanks.

I'll stick with ethics, thank you.
WG
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 | 01:41 AM
Then there are those who just want to flame, and I don't understand why.

Some people don't like what they hear, so their knee-jerk reaction is to attack what they perceive to be the source.

This is what you've put up with for the past three-and-a-half years. My goodness.
bridget
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 | 03:45 PM
Wow. I got one of these letters and decided to research it. I have learned a lot, but I'd like to add that the reason I think I got this originally is because I responded to an employment scam on Craig's List. Don't get me started, just don't ever apply for a job out of the country via Craig's List. Anyway, I decided not to send the letter because I have been taken for a ride before and it doesn't feel good. I'm not entirely sure about the legality or anything, but my guess is that if you start with all this business opportunity stuff it never ends! Since the Craig's List debaucle, I have had so much junk e-mail it isn't even funny. It almost makes me want to send the letter so I can get in on the money, but then I think it just might be illegal and with my luck I'd be the one caught!
Elizabeth
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 | 09:50 AM
The way I understand it is that if you are selling a product and not emphasizing selling a business over a product then that is legal. Also the fact that someone would turn in a poor unfortunate person to the postmaster for doing something they believed was legal is insane.
Becky
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 | 02:28 PM
Elizabeth said:

The way I understand it is that if you are selling a product and not emphasizing selling a business over a product then that is legal."

Are you talking about the typical chain letter, Elizabeth? Please take a look at the Postal Service link I've provided on this thread. It says clearly that people should NOT be fooled by claims that the chain is "selling a product."

"Also the fact that someone would turn in a poor unfortunate person to the postmaster for doing something they believed was legal is insane."

Really? Even if the "poor unfortunate person" was scamming his fellow citizens? Have you never heard the expression "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"?
Herb Eversmells
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 | 02:31 PM
Hey guys,

This may sound unbelieveable but I read over all the blog comments and decided to try it anyway. No...I did nto make $800,000.00 but I did manage to scrape up a massive $7.89. I was so freaken excited when i got my first buck. AND THEN SIX MORE CAME. But then I got oen from some idiot who couldnt count cuz he put $.89 in there. I think this wonderful money making opportunity should be published in fortune 500. DONALD TRUMP EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!!!!!!

TA TA
Steve
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 | 10:08 PM
The funny part is people still argue if these letters are illegal. I checked the U.S.P.S. laws, and also checked Oprah.com and 20/20. THEY ALL say ALL chain letters are illegal. Period. If you don't believe me or CMG, check for yourself. All the credible resources I checked said to turn these letters into the Postmaster of your area. Pretty strong words!

Thanks CMG for fighting the fight for almost four years now!

-Steve
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 12:49 AM
You are absolutely correct, Steve. Chain letters involving the exchange of money or items of value ARE illegal in the U.S (because they CAN'T work). I've linked to the Postal Service's page on this more than once, but there are people who are simply NOT interested in facts, because they desperately want to believe that they've found an E-Z Way To Make Money.

Has it really been almost four years now? Wow. Yeah, you'd think the reality of this situation would sink into the brains of even the most stubborn people, but greed is a great motivator, huh?

Thanks for the kind words, Steve.
Woody
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 11:45 AM
I too have recently received this letter. There is a way to get around the postal service. This same letter is circulating in emails. Use your paypal account. No, I haven't tried this but to those that have would you please let the rest of us know how you are doing?
Dixie
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 01:45 PM
This may be illegal but will be hard as hell to get caught or it may be legal and no worries...CMG has been discouraging unsuspecting would be mail order buiseness owners for four years and counting....If this is illegal then show me who has been arrested for it....then I MIGHT believe....USPS links dont specify enough to consider this a chain letter. The whole thing comes from ssubmitting your info for ways to make money...I doubt this is illegal..the schematics are nothing like the usps links and there are no promises in the letter at all....CMG doesnt have a clue...Honestly, after reading his posts..this guy is a joke..
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 02:15 PM
Once again, the Wishful Thinking crowd completely misses the point.

Chain letters DO NOT work, because they CANNOT work. Even a child could grasp the simple concept that everyone cannot come out with more money than they start out with unless the money is invested, put into an interest-bearing account or used to start a business. Since none of those things is done in a chain letter, there is NO extra money to allow everyone to come out ahead.

I HAVE linked to stories about the Postal Service prosecuting chain letter operators. I guess things become invisible when you don't want to see them, huh?

If you actually take the time to READ some of the links I've provided, you'll see that using email will NOT get you around the laws against fraud. Also, do you think for one second that PayPal wouldn't report you to the authorities if and when they figured out where your money is coming from (assuming you actually got any, that is)?

You can call me all the names you want, but that will NOT change the simple fact that chain letters are ILLEGAL because they CANNOT work. Sorry to burst your little bubble.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 02:17 PM
I'll ask you again. Where are all the multi-millionaires who made their fortunes from chain letters? They've been around for decades now; SOMEONE must have made money from them if, as you think, they are legal and work.
Steve
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 04:29 PM
I would also like to add Paypal pays attention to its business. Here is what the prohibited transactions with Paypal are:
(Pay attention to #3)

1.violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation


2.relate to sales of (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (e) items that are considered obscene, (f) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (g) certain sexually oriented materials or services, or (h) certain firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or knives


3.relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, or (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses


4.violate applicable laws or industry regulations regarding the sale of (a) tobacco products, or (b) prescription drugs and devices


5.involve gambling and/or gaming activities, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, certain games of skill, and other ventures that facilitate gambling unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such gambling activities are permitted by law.

Like most people, I did not read the acceptible use policy until something happened. No, I did not get arrested, but they shut down my account with money still in it. That is what I get for following what I thought was legal.


If you want to actually earn money, find something to get passionate about and GET TO WORK.

-Steve
Heggy
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 | 07:53 PM
If you really follow the instruction of the letter and everyone of you all will send out the letter to people forwarding a total of $6, believe me, it will work. Americans need to learn how to count.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 | 12:52 AM
Heggy said:

"If you really follow the instruction of the letter and everyone of you all will send out the letter to people forwarding a total of $6, believe me, it will work. Americans need to learn how to count."

Well, YOU certainly need to learn how to count. Heggy, please explain to us all where the extra money will come from for everyone to come out ahead. As any rational person can see, there can only be as much in the "fund" as was put in. Therefore, it is NOT possible for everyone to come out with more than they put in.

This truly is not difficult to understand (assuming you aren't brain-damaged, that is).

It's funny how greed makes people believe in irrational nonsense, isn't it?
Dixie
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 | 08:30 AM
Heggy,

Your right...Ive done the math as well and mathematically...Ths would be possible if everyone responds...Of ourse most people wont respond but the amount of return is based on the rate of response....As far as extra money...CMG...there would be no extra money....You asked how everyone would come out ahead...Easy..Your investment would be roughly 138.00 incuding the six dollars sent..In order to come out ahead each person would need to have at least that many people respond...Its very simple math but it isnt promised money....The rate of return mus be figured as a variable percentage based on the reply..There isnt any way of finding out the Variable number other than sendng out the letters...and so we ae in catch 22 situation..Should someone have an excellent response on the first and second and even third levels of the program, then it would be very hard not to come out ahead..
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 | 02:39 PM
Dixie said:

"As far as extra money...CMG...there would be no extra money."

And yet you persist in claiming that everyone CAN come out ahead. At this point, the only question is whether you are unintelligent or merely attempting to fool other people.

Yes, it IS possible for YOU to come out ahead. That, however, can ONLY happen if other people LOSE THEIR MONEY. Since their is NO investment involved, nor any interest accrued by the money put into the chain, "profit" to any person HAS to come from someone else's loss.

Read this slowly: It. is. NOT. possible. for. EVERYONE. to. come. out. ahead. in. a. chain. letter.

Unless, of course, you think the Tooth Fairy is involved in this (which I'm less willing with each passing day to think you can't possible believe).
Jamie
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 | 03:04 PM
I got one of these silly letters today and decided to just research the internet a bit, not because I was going to try it, but just because I sit at home all day with a three month old and have nothing better to do with my time, haha.

Anyway, just wanted to say that it's AMAZING that this thread has been going for almost four years. Way to stick with your opinion and not give up, Cranky. Lol. Definitley provided me with some entertainment for the day.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 | 04:38 PM
Glad I could entertain a new Mom, Jamie.

I don't give up because I know the FACTS and the MATH are on my side.
Kurt
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 | 06:51 PM
Sorry it took me a while to respond. I have a life. Cranky, do you actually think that I was talking about the communinist having anything to do with chain letters? I WAS refering to your attitude, and you cleverly dodged the question that I asked you.

No. I DO NOT think communist have anyting to do with chain letters and I don't stay up at night worrying about it.

I do feel kinda sorry for you though, because to me, you sound like a Socialist.

Cranky said > Do you lie awake at night, worrying about Communists and their insidious plot to take away our ability to cheat other out of money?

Excuse me! So is that what you think America and Americans do is cheat each other out of money? If you do you are very wrong my friend. This system of Government is the most honest that the world has to offer, besides a few bad apples of course. ANYONE in this country can become anything they want. But nevertheless, if you have been cheated in the past I am sorry. Most people in this country ARE honest.

I am sorry to talk off topic, but Cranky asked the question.

Oh and just to let you know. I spit on the sidewalk today. I also went a little over the speed limit. And I'm going out to dinner tonight with my girlfriend, but im strapping my LEGAL concealed handgun on first. Because you know why? Because this is America! And I'm an American dammit!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 | 01:15 AM
Kurt said:

"I do feel kinda sorry for you though, because to me, you sound like a Socialist."

Really? Please explain to all of us how my opposition to the well-documented scam called chain letters makes me "sound like a Socialist." I'm sure your bizarre reasoning will make for entertaining reading.

"So is that what you think America and Americans do is cheat each other out of money?"

No. What I was clearly saying was that people who run scams (like chain letters) are cheating their fellow citizens. I made the mistake of thinking I was addressing someone possessing average or better reading comprehension. I apologize.

"Oh and just to let you know. I spit on the sidewalk today. I also went a little over the speed limit. And I'm going out to dinner tonight with my girlfriend, but im strapping my LEGAL concealed handgun on first. Because you know why? Because this is America! And I'm an American dammit!"

What you AREN'T is a person who makes sense. Are you REALLY trying to compare spitting on the sidewalk with scamming people out of thousands of dollars via a chain letter? Here's a suggestion: look into something called "sense of proportion." It may help you in the future.

As for the gun stuff, please show me where I've said one word about guns, the Second Amendment or anything concerning that subject. In the absence of my mentioning guns, this seems to be irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You seem to be equating your Constitutional right to keep and bear arms with some imaginary right to cheat your fellow citizens. I say "seem" because your "logic" is irrational.
Waynika
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 | 09:39 AM
I have this letter in my hand now and I went to oprah's web site to see if I could pull it up but I can't. The strange thing is that I actually remember seeing the 15 year old on a show saying how he was making big bucks but I don't remember if it was from the mailing list or what. But has anyone checked out the web sites that they give on the bottom of the second page? They are as follows: 1.www.aboutlists.com 2. http://www.alopportunityseekers.com 3. www.opportunityconnection.com 4. http://www.sellmorelists.com and 5. http://www.datalineone.com In the letter it says that they make sure they don't repaet names and that they are the ones to go with. Has anyone done this and made real big money?
Kurt
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 | 06:27 PM
Wow! Are you just like brainwashed? Is that your problem?
Cranky. Get your bifocals out and reread my last post, and then maybe... just maybe you can understand what I am saying. But i doubt it.

And what is with the insults? You know I often hear that when you are honest and tell the truth, people who don't want to believe or deny it start to come up with off the wall insults. Or maybe they're just not bright enough to come up with anything original. It seems to me that you have dropped down a level Cranky.

"You seem to be equating your Constitutional right to keep and bear arms with some imaginary right to cheat your fellow citizens. I say "seem" because your "logic" is irrational."

Hey friend, I was just trying to make a point. If you want to read "everything" that I post about YOUR irrationality has to do with chain letters, then you really need to consider seeing a pshyciatrist.

I still say that this letter IS NOT a chain letter and IS NOT a pyramid. That's called deductive reasoning. Look that up Blanky...oops! I mean Cranky.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 | 01:00 AM
Kurt said:

"Get your bifocals out and reread my last post, and then maybe... just maybe you can understand what I am saying. But i doubt it."

I doubt it, too, but I don't think the problem is on MY side.

"And what is with the insults?"

Oh, you mean insults like when YOU said, "I do feel kinda sorry for you though, because to me, you sound like a Socialist."?






"If you want to read 'everything' that I post about YOUR irrationality has to do with chain letters, then you really need to consider seeing a pshyciatrist."

Huh?

"I still say that this letter IS NOT a chain letter and IS NOT a pyramid."

Right, just because it can't possibly work and its modus operandi is exactly the same as the classic chain letter, why would it be a chain letter?

I'll ask again. Where are the profiles of the chain letter millionaires in the financial magazines and sections of the newspapers? Where are the infomercials selling the E-Z Way To Make Millions the Chain Letter Way? Where is ANYONE who will admit publicly that they've made a fortune via one of these "non-chain letters"?
Dixie
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 | 12:01 PM
Cranky Said "I'll ask again. Where are the profiles of the chain letter millionaires in the financial magazines and sections of the newspapers? Where are the infomercials selling the E-Z Way To Make Millions the Chain Letter Way? Where is ANYONE who will admit publicly that they've made a fortune via one of these "non-chain letters"?

I say "Wheres the people in jail because of this particular letter???? Wheres the failed attempts???? Where is ANYONE who will admit publicly that they have failed at trying or have been questioned or arrested....There are none because this is not a chain letter.
G
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 | 02:39 PM
wow, long debate...i got the letter a few weeks ago, seems illegal obviously up for debate(as is everything else written in law) anyway good link on why its not suppose to work http://members.impulse.net/~thebob/Pyramid.html
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 | 01:08 AM
From the site linked to by G:

"Here's another way of looking at it. Suppose there was a scheme where everyone who joins contibutes a dollar, which is then put into a box. No money is put into that box except the dollar from each person who joins the scheme. Is there any way to redisitribute the money that is collected into this box so that everyone who contributed money into it gets more back than what he put in? Let's suppose that a hundred people have joined this scheme. This means that there is $100 in the box, and 100 people expecting some kind of payout. If the money in the box is equally distributed among all the participants, then each will get back only $1, the exact amount that he paid to join. You could give $10 to each of 10 people, but that would leave 90 people who get back nothing, and who have only lost the dollar that each had paid to join. You could give the whole $100 to one person, but that would leave 99 people who get nothing back. There is simply no way for everyone to get back more than they paid in. In order for anyone to get back more, someone else has to get back less. Anyone who gains in such a scheme does so at the expense of others who have lost.

"The same holds true of all pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, straight
cajungal328
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 | 09:06 PM
Sorry in advance for the long response...

Cranky, I want to begin by saying that it is good to see that you have this purpose in life, to dedicate yourself, as you have over the last 3 years, to warn people of the illegality of their actions in participating in this chain letter, and to inform them of the possible consequences of thier actions. That is commedable on your part. But, what I really wish to know is, what do YOU get out of all this? Do you work for the USPS or the US government or are you just one of the many of us that got burnt by this scam? Or are you just insulted by a letter that came into you mailbox? Who are you, and why do you care? I just don't get it. Why all this dedication (3 years, day after day) and all this obvious hostility toward those who are just trying to figure out a way to get ahead in a world where the cost of everything, especially food and gas, is going up and up and up and up in leaps and bounds, gas is almost $4/ gal., milk is almost $5/ gal., and shows no signs of stopping, and yet minimum wages remain almost the same as 10 years ago, a time when gas was $1/ gal. and milk was $2/ gal.? Everything costs triple what it did a decade ago, yet employers can work their people for practically nothing, and that's ok... I cannot blame any of them, I am in the same boat with them, I am a single woman who waits on tables all day long for a living and, I make decent enough money, I guess, enough to get by anyway, but I too would like to take time off of work to rest, and not hurt so badly for money all the time, and maybe go back to school and make a better life for myself, if only I didn't have to work so much. I mean, can you, in your heart of hearts, honestly blame anyone who would consider this scheme or be tempted by it? I have tried it once myself about 4 years ago, and didnt make but $10, so I lost about $100 in the deal. I don't know if I want to try it again, but I do admit, I am tempted, hopeful that this time it will work. You are right, it is a risky gamble, and it may be illegal, not really sure, but at any rate, you can hardly blame people for trying to get ahead, you know? And as for the USPS prosecuting people, they could, and they might, but I doubt that they would. Realistically, do you think they will throw the book at people who are literally pouring money into the USPS, buying hundreds of stamps to mail off these letters. They would be foolish to prosecute their own business, for people like us make up a good percentage of their business. Am I making any sense at all? I have read 30 something pages of responses, and I have read all you have to say, pretty much, and I am not disagreeing with you, but I do think you are overreacting a little... If you get a letter, and you want to participate, fine, if not, throw the letter away, it's as simple as that. But this business of reporting this to authorities, trying to get people prosecuted, come on now, why hurt the little man? That's just heartless and cruel...
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 | 12:54 AM
To answer your question, Cajungal, no, I've never been scammed by a chain letter or any other form of pyramid scheme. No, I don't work for the Postal Service or any law enforcement agency.

It's a bit complicated perhaps, but I've always had an interest in what might broadly be called "illusion versus reality." If you look around the rest of this website, you'll find some references to me that you may find interesting.

Contrary to what you might think, I don't really spend that much time on this thread. On those days when I post something here, it usually only takes me a few minutes. That seems like a reasonable investment to make to potentially help someone from being scammed. In tough economic times when they can least afford to lose their money, people turn to "get rich quick" schemes like chain letters. If I can keep someone from falling for something which will result in their losing money, I think I've done a good deed.

"If you get a letter, and you want to participate, fine, if not, throw the letter away, it's as simple as that. But this business of reporting this to authorities, trying to get people prosecuted, come on now, why hurt the little man? That's just heartless and cruel..."

I don't think I've ever threatened to turn someone considering participating in a chain letter into the authorities. If I knew for sure that someone here was RUNNING one, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to inform the Postal Service, though. Chain letters are an illegal scam.
cajungal328
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 | 10:41 AM
Cranky,
No, as far as I have read, you, yourself, haven't threatened to turn people into the authorities for passing chain letters on, but that USPS webpage that you strongly promote, does. In the very last paragraph, it incourages receipients of the letter to turn them in to the postmaster or the authorities and state "I have received this letter in the mail and believe it to be illegal". Since you have made several references to this webpage, and incouraged a number of people to read it, even placed a link to it in some of your responses, do you not agree with this last paragraph as well? Maybe you did not intentionally mean to get semi-innocent people in trouble with the law, but by getting others to read this page about the illegality of it all, and what they should do about these illegal letters, you are a threat to all the people who have participated in this scheme already, and may not have known the legal status at the time they did it (people just like me. When I did this, I didn't know it was illegal). There are alot of gullable people like me out there, that might believe what the letter says, that it is 100% legal... until the cops show up at their door with handcuffs. They never showed up for me, but they could have.

Cranky, I mean no disrespect to you. You are trying to stop people from making a grave mistake, I understand what you are trying to do. I will say again, I commend you for that. I know some people on here say ugly things to you and attack you, argue with you, and it probably makes you angry. It would make me angry, too. I'm not doing that at all. Where you are concerned, the only part I disagree with is that you are indirectly getting people who have already made this mistake, whether they were aware of their mistake or not, into trouble with the law.
cajungal328
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 | 10:52 AM
PS.... It's really sad when honest and decent people, law abiding citizens in every other walk of life, are willing to bend and break the law in an attempt to survive. That's what this is, you know. It's called survival.... How can you hate on people who are trying, when there are so many out there who live off of the system, live off of our tax dollars, and don't even try...

This is terrible!
scottyboy
Member
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 | 09:42 PM
Would some of you please use a dictinary!? Man, I see some rotten spelling. Subject is interesting though! My wife received the same letter today and asked me about it. I've seen chain letters many times before. CMG is right on. The math doesn't work.
Cajun gal are you lonely or something...what's with the Novella?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 | 01:08 AM
scottyboy said:

"CMG is right on. The math doesn't work."

Yup. The math doesn't work becaue the math CAN'T work. 2+2 can never equal 5 no matter how much you want it to.
Peggy K.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 | 07:13 AM
I too received this letter in the mail. My first thought is Was it sent from the mailing list company? They are getting at least $10.00 of your money PLUS your credit card info!!! Sorry, I would love to "get rich quick" BUT I'm not that stupid...P.K.
Dixie
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 | 12:53 PM
There are some fools in here there dont understand this letter....You cant say something wont work mathematically when there are variables involved....The rate of return in the equasion is a variable and the success depends on that variable...A+B=C..Im not going to take the time to explain the math but this can work mathematically...If you say it cant then you might consider going to some night classes or something...I know im right so dont bother..
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 | 01:34 PM
Dixie said:

"Im not going to take the time to explain the math but this can work mathematically...If you say it cant then you might consider going to some night classes or something...I know im right so dont bother."

Night classes in what? Imaginary Mathematics?

Dixie, a chain letter CANNOT work as claimed because there simply is NO extra money to distribute to the participants.

Try reading the quoted part from my May 12, 11:08 PM posting above. It explains the reality of the situation in nice, simple English.

I'll ask yet again. Where are all the millionaires created by chain letters? If chain letters work, then there MUST be people who have made fortunes from them, especially since chain letters have been around for decades.
cajungal328
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 | 06:32 PM
"Would some of you please use a dictinary!? Man, I see some rotten spelling. Subject is interesting though! My wife received the same letter today and asked me about it. I've seen chain letters many times before. CMG is right on. The math doesn't work.
Cajun gal are you lonely or something...what's with the Novella?"

Maybe Scottyboy should get a dictionary, since he can't even spell his point.... hehehe Hey, dude, I'm not the one who just made an @ss out of you, you did... And I resent the remark you made about me being lonely. So, if people have a point to make and may have much to say on a subject, that makes them lonely? You're a moron. Now, let's see, did I misspell MORON???

I guess I missed my calling. Maybe I should have been a writer....

"Im not going to take the time to explain the math but this can work mathematically...If you say it cant then you might consider going to some night classes or something...I know im right so don't bother."

I don't really know where mathematics plays into this at all. Your results solely depend on how many people participate, and the odds are very much against you. For example, if only 1 person that you mail to participates, you will make $1. But lets say that person gets lucky, and 50 of their recieptients participate, you will make $50 more. If each of the 50 has 10 who participate, that's $500 more that will come to you, and so on down the line until your name is dropped. It can work if we have participation, but odds are that we won't have it. That's why most people who try this fail to see any comeback at all. The problem is that 98% of people who receive these throw them in the trash. And out of the 2% who may be interested in participation, probably less than 1% actually do take part. So, if you mail out 200 of these things and only 2 people take part, that doesn't give you much of a return, does it? That's what happened to me. No mathematics. It's a game of chance.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 | 07:26 PM
Yes, it's true that most people who get a chain letter will not participate, but that isn't the primary reason they CANNOT work. I'll post this again:

"Here's another way of looking at it. Suppose there was a scheme where everyone who joins contributes a dollar, which is then put into a box. No money is put into that box except the dollar from each person who joins the scheme. Is there any way to redistribute the money that is collected into this box so that everyone who contributed money into it gets more back than what he put in? Let's suppose that a hundred people have joined this scheme. This means that there is $100 in the box, and 100 people expecting some kind of payout. If the money in the box is equally distributed among all the participants, then each will get back only $1, the exact amount that he paid to join. You could give $10 to each of 10 people, but that would leave 90 people who get back nothing, and who have only lost the dollar that each had paid to join. You could give the whole $100 to one person, but that would leave 99 people who get nothing back. There is simply no way for everyone to get back more than they paid in. In order for anyone to get back more, someone else has to get back less. Anyone who gains in such a scheme does so at the expense of others who have lost.

"The same holds true of all pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, straight
cajungal328
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 | 03:44 PM
Geez, this is turning into a debate...

With all due respect, CMG, the dollar in a box thing makes no sense (to me) at all. And, as I may not be a educated as some, I am far from being stupid. But, I will admit, I do suck at math, and I always did.... I used to catch zzzzzzzz-s in math class 😊 Don't see how I passed....

OK, so, if you put a dollar in a box along with 99 other people, and distributed them back evenly amoung the 100 people, everyone would get back a dollar, exactly what they put in. I get it. But in speaking of the letter, it really makes no sense to say that one benefits from the loss of others, like to say if you give one of the people back $100, 99 people would get back nothing. With the dollar in a box thing, yeah, that may be true, but the letter is not designed that way. It is not designed that you send 1 person on the list $6 and you send the other 5 people nothing. It doesn't work that way. Each person who takes part is to send $1 to all 6 people on the list, so all 6 benefit, not just 1. Nobody is taking anything away from anyone else.

The only way that one would not benefit from this at all is if they had no participation at all, or if the people cheat, and mail letters without sending the dollars. That could very well happen.... Not everyone is as honest as you and me.

I just see this as another form of gambling, just like if you stuck a dollar into a slot machine, you may win back several more dollars, then again, you may not. It's a game of chance... There is a chance others may take part, and send you a dollar as the instructions say, and then again, there is a chance they may all throw your letters in the trash can. Who knows....
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 | 06:23 PM
I have to say this. I continue to be amazed that people who show every sign of having average or higher intelligence have trouble understanding the problem with chain letters.

No matter HOW MANY people are involved in the chain, since there is NO investment of the money outside of the chain, there is NO source of "additional" money. When it's time to distribute the money, there is only as much in the "pool" as people have put into it. Therefore, it is simply NOT possible for everyone to come out ahead. For that to happen, there would have to be more money in the "pool" than the participants put in.

If ANYONE comes out ahead, the ONLY possible source of their gain is a LOSS on the part of someone else. There is NO other possibility.

Cajungirl's comparison to a slot machine is inaccurate, since no method of legal gambling claims that everyone will come out ahead. Chain letters routinely say something like "we can all come out ahead if we don't break the chain." That's why they're illegal (well, that and the fact that they don't pay taxes, of course).

Show me ANY chain letter that says something like, "You're probably going to lose your money but there's a chance that you can come out ahead." Good luck looking for one. They're SCAMS which aren't intended to produce a profit for YOU. They're operated by people who intend to take the short-term money and run.
ricks baby
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 | 02:08 PM
is this really a hoax????
cajungal328
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 | 07:36 PM
CMG, I do appreciate the compliment, your comment about people with average or higher intelligence levels, in response to my message (If you were referring to me, I thank you).

However, I do feel really stupid right now, because no matter how many times you explain this, over and over, I just don't understand. Am I the only dummy in the bunch? Please tell me I'm not the only one....
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 | 12:55 AM
ricks baby said:

"is this really a hoax????"

To be accurate, hoaxes usually don't break the law. A chain letter would more accurately be called a scam as they are designed to take money from people fraudulently.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 | 01:09 AM
Yes, Cajungirl, I was referring to you. You are pretty clearly not dumb. I guess you have kind of a blind spot about this subject. We all have 'em about one thing or another.

No legal form of gambling will claim that everyone will win. Yes, you'll see ads for lotteries and casinos that will say things like "Anyone can win." That's true, but it's a long way from saying everyone WILL win. A casino in which everyone won would be out of business in about a week, for obvious reasons.

Chain letters and other types of scams claim that everyone WILL win. That isn't possible and is a large part of the reason they're illegal.

100 people each put a dollar into a bucket. Then they all line up again to take money out of the bucket. If the first person takes a fistful of bills, someone else is going to lose money. Since there is no investment being made, there is only as much money in the bucket as was originally put into it. That's the essence of the problem with chain letters. If anyone comes out ahead, someone else (probably MANY someone elses, actually) HAS to lose. The claims often made along the lines of "We can all come out ahead if we all play fair" are LIES.

If the operators of chain letters told the truth: that it is NOT possible for every participant to come out ahead, why would anyone take part in one? Isn't it much simpler to just buy a lottery ticket than to copy the letter you received in the mail, put your name on the bottom of the list, stick money into envelopes and send it to the first five names on the list? They can only get people to participate by telling the lie that everyone can come out ahead, which is mathematically impossible.

By the way, this isn't just my opinion. Any decent-sized library will have books on scams and frauds. Many of those books will have sections or chapters on chain letters which will tell you what I just said. Chain letters don't work because they CAN'T work.
Reynita
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 03:15 AM
well..everyone in here has their own opinions and thats good to know..however..whoever has the letter can you email me..thanks!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 04:46 AM
Reynita said:

"well..everyone in here has their own opinions and thats good to know."

There are opinions and then there are FACTS, Reynita. Saying that chain letters involving the exchange of money are ILLEGAL is not an "opinion," it's a FACT.

Dozens of books on scams and frauds which you can find in the library say so. The United States Postal Service says so.

Another FACT is that asking people to email you is futile as no one here has your email address. But maybe that's just my opinion, right? *sigh*
Dixie
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 09:45 AM
CMG said "There are opinions and then there are FACTS, Reynita. Saying that chain letters involving the exchange of money are ILLEGAL is not an "opinion," it's a FACT.

Dozens of books on scams and frauds which you can find in the library say so. The United States Postal Service says so.

Another FACT is that asking people to email you is futile as no one here has your email address. But maybe that's just my opinion, right? *sigh*

Heres a Fact.....You CANT prove this is a chain letter...therefore you cant prove its illegal...the return is based on the reply and no one knows what that will be so you cant prove it wont work mathematically...and in closing we must appreciate your concern...but until those facts become concrete your just blowing smoke...I would say at best CMG, that you are making educated assumptions....
Julia
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 01:22 PM
cranky and dixie..

thanks for your info...but I don't understand why with the rudeness...I mean isn't this like an open forum..everyone has their own opinios...why don't you guys start with your own facts instead of copy and pasting each others!!!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 02:03 PM
Dixie said:

"Heres a Fact.....You CANT prove this is a chain letter...therefore you cant prove its illegal...the return is based on the reply and no one knows what that will be so you cant prove it wont work mathematically...and in closing we must appreciate your concern...but until those facts become concrete your just blowing smoke...I would say at best CMG, that you are making educated assumptions...."

Bzzzt! WRONG! Dixie, I've very patiently explained more than once that the outcome is NOT based on "the reply." You can't dole out more money than you take in. Period. It makes NO difference whatsoever how many people participate; you CANNOT give everyone more than they put in.

There's a reason you never read about chain letter millionaires: THERE AREN'T ANY.
NC software developer
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 03:57 PM
Is there a national list of the participants of this scam? Having a place to compile all of the individuals names will make it much easier to take legal action when the time comes.

I've gotten 5 of these letters since Jan 08 and have kept return addresses for the dummies who put it on their envelope. Hopefully someone knows of a way to stop these from coming since I don't have an easy way of finding out which agency sold my info to someone. Else, i'll be forced to start sending out my own mystery packages to the participants who target me.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 | 06:32 PM
NC software developer said:

"Is there a national list of the participants of this scam? Having a place to compile all of the individuals names will make it much easier to take legal action when the time comes."

It never occurred to me to look for such a list but I doubt one exists.

You could, of course, just forward all the information you have to the Postmaster General's office in D.C.

As has been mentioned previously in this thread, the Postal Inspectors have a VERY high rate of conviction when they go after someone, more than 95% if I remember correctly.
Larry
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 | 04:57 PM
You know if only 1/10 of the people you sent 20 letters responded you ever tried to figure that out.n 2 people 40 leters 4 people 160 leters 16 people 320 letters. count the money only idiots believe this will not work
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 | 05:14 PM
Larry said:

"You know if only 1/10 of the people you sent 20 letters responded you ever tried to figure that out.n 2 people 40 leters 4 people 160 leters 16 people 320 letters. count the money only idiots believe this will not work"

Really, Larry? Only idiots think a chain letter can't produce profits for all participants? REALLY?

Obviously you have not read very much of this thread or you would have seen where the simple reasons that chain letters CANNOT work as claimed have been explained numerous times.

Larry, there is NO investment made with a chain letter. There cannot be one cent more to be distributed at the end of the chain than was put in by the participants. Even an "idiot" should be able to see that under those circumstances, there is NO extra money to enable everyone to come out ahead. For any individual participant to get, say, 10 times their money back, there MUST be NINE other people who lose all of their money.

What makes you think you'll be the one in ten who comes out ahead (under ideal circumstances which almost certainly wouldn't exist) rather than being one of the nine who lose?

I'll ask you, Larry, as I've asked everyone else who insists on thinking that the well-documented scam known as a "chain letter" can work: Where are all the chain letter millionaires one would expect to be out there if they actually worked? Where are the businesses that make money by running them? Where are the late night infomercials that sell the E-Z Way To Make Money With Chain Letters?

I'm sure there are libraries in Alabama, Larry. You might consider visiting one of them and looking for one of the books that have been written about scams and frauds. Many of them contain chapters about chain letters. Perhaps that will help you understand why chain letters don't and can't work.

In the future, please be more circumspect about accusing people of being idiots on subjects you do not understand yourself. Thanks.
Dixie
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 | 12:02 PM
And he continues to insult and insist...with no proof that it even is a chain letter.....cant keep a good man down!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 | 01:43 PM
If it isn't a chain letter, Dixie, why are you discussing it here?

Does it ask you to send money to the name(s) at the top? Does it instruct you to then put your name on the bottom of the list and send it to some other people?
Leah
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 | 02:56 AM
I just got the letter today...the envelop was a bit damaged so the post office was nice enough to put it in one of their own envelopes with an apology - I just find this soo funny since around page five or so of this thread there was theories of a conspiracy from the post office flying around. Just needed to share <lol> Did anyone get that letter from a few years ago about friends helping each other, blah, blah, blah and send a couple bucks and get something back
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 | 04:20 AM
Leah, the "friends helping friends" line is apparently pretty standard with these pyramid scheme-type things.

Back in the 80's when I was hanging around the Allentown, PA area, a thing called the "Airplane" came through the area. It was a pretty standard pyramid scheme; I just wish I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say it was about "friends helping friends." Needless to say, many people lost a LOT of money falling for that one.

Hey, I tried to warn them. I was a radio guy in those days and I explained on the air, more than once, why these things don't and can't work.
housewife1121
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 | 10:10 AM
I just got this letter for the second time and bought everything necessary but havent sent it out yet. I just logged on to check this out and see what everyone else thought about it. I am very amazed that you all seem to have been talking about this for over 2 years? Thats quite a dedication for something "some" of you seem to find pithy and unimportant scams. "Eh hem, cmg" 😊. I'm not being snarky, just observing. anyhow, this actually IS mentioned on abc's website. And also the law state, "Moneys echanged in the process of recieving goods or services will constitute as a transaction..."
Leah
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 | 11:45 AM
housewife1121:

you baught the list of names from the company that they referenced in the letter, Data something-or-another? Did they reply promptly and how much did you have to pay for how many?...Just curious - Thanks!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 | 12:54 AM
housewife 1121 said:

"I am very amazed that you all seem to have been talking about this for over 2 years? Thats quite a dedication for something "some" of you seem to find pithy and unimportant scams. "Eh hem, cmg"

I've explained my motivations for warning people about the scam of chain letters before. What's odd about trying to keep people from wasting their money on something that does not and cannot work?
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