The Museum of Hoaxes
A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?
Posted By:
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Nov 14, 2004
 I received this chain letter in my mailbox:

Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.

***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)

What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452

Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??
Category: Scams; Replies: 1759

Comments
Page 26 of 30 pages ‹ First  < 24 25 26 27 28 >  Last ›
h-townmommy
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 | 05:04 PM
I am going on about 3 months. I have recieved $2. Since then I have recieved 2 more of the same letters.I recieve one about every month. These things are played out. Anyone who say that they make money are lying, there arent that many people out there who are just doing this.I get these all the time, and I just think about the $200 that someone is throwing away to keep sending me repeats. Dataline is just giving out the same addresses over and over again. So no there is no money in this!!! Stop lying!!! It is your choice to participate, I am not telling you not to throw away your money. All I am saying is that the list dataline is sending you, are with the same addresses over and over again. They are the winners in this!!
h-townmommy
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 | 05:22 PM
And Oprah nore 20/20 have said anything about this letter. It is just to get your attention. It worked on me, and many others. At one time it did work, I know people who said it did. Now the economy is down, and almost everyone has already tried it, or just don't want any part of it. Think about it. I mean you can send me another letter if you like, but I will just throw it away again.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 | 07:20 PM
h-townmommy said:

"These things are played out. Anyone who say that they make money are lying, there arent that many people out there who are just doing this."

I'm glad you see the light on chain letters, Mommy, but I would make one correction. They NEVER "worked" ("worked" meaning that it's possible for every participant to come out ahead).

As has been explained many times in this thread, for that to happen there would have to be more money (MUCH more) in the "pot" at the end of the chain than was ever put into it.

Since the money isn't used to create any kind of income-generating business and doesn't accrue interest, that simply isn't possible.

Chain letters have NEVER worked because they CAN'T.
Butch
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 | 02:44 PM
I wonder if one were to take a chain letter and promote it for what they really are and not a get rich quick opportunity but in fact an opportunity to make a few bucks selling, let's say for a buck something that could actually help a person. Something someone could actually use to enhance their life in a positive way. Would that letter still be illegal. I believe there could be honest money made with this kind of opportunity as long as no false claims are made and a product that could actually be used for something besides promoting this opportunity is exchanged. like maybe maybe some sort of advice. Just a thought.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 | 06:27 PM
Butch said;

"I wonder if one were to take a chain letter and promote it for what they really are and not a get rich quick opportunity but in fact an opportunity to make a few bucks selling, let's say for a buck something that could actually help a person. Something someone could actually use to enhance their life in a positive way. Would that letter still be illegal."

Butch, here's what the U.S. Postal Service says about that on its website:

"Do not be fooled if the chain letter is used to sell inexpensive reports on credit, mail order sales, mailing lists, or other topics. The primary purpose is to take your money, not to sell information. 'Selling' a product does not ensure legality."
Butch
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 | 09:20 PM
Exactly! The primary purpose is to take money under false pretences. The claim of hundreds of thousands of dollars being made in a couple of months is ridiculous and is what makes them illegal. I'm talking about an opportunity where the main purpose is to share information that can enhance one's life in a positive way, and if someone can make a little money by helping people, what's wrong with that. A chain letter would be a perfect way to promote a good thing as long as there are no ridiculous false claims made. There is no way one would be convicted for selling something for a buck that could make a big positive difference in a person's life.

The problem with most chain letters is they are full of lies and what they sell is useless or is not even worth the buck you pay for it. But, if you pull all the lies out and sell something for a buck that is worth way more, their's no way it would be illegal. And if the info is good info that can actually help people, money could be made. The reason people don't make any money with most of these is because the letter and everything offered in it isn't even worth the paper it's printed on. I have an idea that I think would work and would be legal, and a person could make a little money with. However I will do a lot more DD before I attempt it.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 | 01:13 AM
Butch said:

"The reason people don't make any money with most of these is because the letter and everything offered in it isn't even worth the paper it's printed on."

No, the reason most people don't make money with chain letters is because the math involved to make that happen is IMPOSSIBLE. It's been pretty carefully explained more than once over the course of this thread.

I'm unclear on what you want to do, Butch. If what you intend to do is sell something or distribute information about something, there are easier ways to do that than via a chain letter. Once you get into that "send a dollar to five friends and you'll get a hundred grand back" stuff, you've crossed over into Illegal Chain Letter Territory.
Butch
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 | 12:09 PM
Cranky, you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm talking about getting rid of "send a dollar to five friends and you'll get a hundred grand back" stuff, and being realistic.

I don't know about you but I sure could use a few hundred or maybe even a few thousand extra bucks, which is totally feasible with this opportunity. And what a great and inexpensive way to get the word out. Look at the letter that started this thread. Just about anyone with a computer and Internet access has received it at one time or another. Unfortunately it's a scam full of false info so the majority of them are deleted without being read. And the ones through snail mail are tossed in the trash.

What if you got one with some actual useful information that could enhance your life, and without all the BS. Wouldn't more people be more apt to actually read and then spend the 5 bucks for that info. I know I would. And who in their right mind would try and prosecute someone for sharing positive life changing information for a lousy 5 bucks. It's the info that I want to promote more than the money making opportunity, because I know from experience what this info has done for me. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Butch
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 | 12:23 PM
One thing I don't understand is why doesn't the government go after Internet scams. 90% of the so called online business opportunities are just as bad if not worse than the chain letters we're talking about, but I never hear of any of these people being prosecuted.
PH
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 | 02:23 PM
I got this same letter too and I think it is a SCAM too. I am not going to try it simply because it doesn't really interest me, I have a decent job, a loving husband and I will make my own living honetly instead of these get rich quick schemes. However, I was curious about it and did my own little research on it. However, I do agree with the some of the ideas on here. Yea, I've read all the comments and theories about this letter and of also about the guy/girl who beleives a true hoax is the damned federal government....and that they want to bitch and wine cause they can't exaclty tax this. Serves them right in my opinion, they have pretty much screwed the country up anyway thanks to thier crap. I tend to highly agree with him/her on that. The letter I've come to the conclusion that yes it could be a scam and then again you could do it and maybe or maybe not get a alot of money out it. To each thier own I guess. But yes it does sound like a pyrmid scheme to me simply because it ia too good to be true and I for one wouldn't try it because it seems to me too much of a headache and not to mention of the laws one would be breaking. Even as much as I disagree with the government and thier crap and would love to see the little guy get one over on the big guy, I would have to say don't bother with this scheme simply because of the trap you would be setting yourself up for, such as(Not recieving any money/or very little money sent to you, the feds finding out-possible jail time, plus they can proabably make your life a living hell, and that it is true that chain letters are illegal.) Well I said my peace, I will leave it at that.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 | 04:26 PM
Butch said:

"Cranky, you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm talking about getting rid of "send a dollar to five friends and you'll get a hundred grand back" stuff, and being realistic."

"It's the info that I want to promote more than the money making opportunity, because I know from experience what this info has done for me. Do you see where I'm going with this?"

No, not really. You're talking about sending out information about something to people via the mail and NOT in chain letter fashion? That's called a "mailing list." It's done by countless businesses around the country every day.
Butch
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 | 05:27 PM
No, I'm talking about creating a chain letter without the BS. still having 5 people to send a buck to and getting a piece of valuable information from each of those 5 people for the dollar, then once you have all five valuable pieces of info you move everyone down the list one spot placing yourself at the top, and then send it out to all your friends and family, because the info is so important you want to share it, especially with those closest to you. And it would be really hard to cheat because you have to have all 5 pieces of info before you can send out the letter yourself.

It's been established that it is all the lies and ridiculous claims that make a chain letter illegal. So if you create a chain letter that is honest and achievable by anyone, and the info is valuable, what law would be broken?
That Darn Blister
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 | 12:27 AM
Actually, they do go after a lot of the scams. The ones that remain long enough to get reported and investigated.

Or the ones that cause enough damage in a short period of time to get emergency measures taken, such as Ad Surf Daily did. See Patrickpretty.com for a lot of discussion of what the Feds did in that particular case, Butch.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 | 01:13 AM
Sorry, Butch, I guess I'm just not understanding what you're driving at.

What makes a chain letter illegal is the claims to the effect that everyone can come out with more money than they started out with. That simply isn't possible.

If you intend to make any such claim, your chain WILL be illegal, no matter how valuable the information you're attaching to it is.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 | 01:26 AM
HEY, Blister, did you see this on the Patrickpretty.com site:

"When you purchase a lottery ticket at your convenience store and you don
jacksmom
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 | 07:12 PM
Cranky,

I don't know how well you read my post but I didn't say anything about supporting or shunning the letter. I said I RECIEVED it. I threw my letter in the trash. All I was saying was that it is annoying trying to do some reasearch and having to filter through one opinion 700 times, and that I thought it was sad you felt you needed to repeat yourself. The first post I read of yours actually impressed me; I thought you sounded like an intelligent guy who knew what he was talking about. But as I read on I realized you are just an angry person with nothing better to do than argue. Cheers to everyone doing research before jumping into something. Whatever you chose at least you knew what you were getting into. Crazy, I'm sorry I offended you but it just doesn't make sense if you think you are right that you feel you need to repeatedly drive your point home. Anyone visiting this site will see your opinion on the first page. Don't waste your own or anyone elses time being redundant.

ps. sorry if my post came up twice, it didn't work right the first time.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 | 02:07 AM
jacksmom said:

"Anyone visiting this site will see your opinion on the first page. Don't waste your own or anyone elses time being redundant."

Since you claim to have read the thread from the beginning, you MUST have seen where I've explained why I repeat the same information.

I'll say it again, since you managed to miss it: This is NOT a work of literature where it would be bad form to tell the reader the same things over and over, like if an author kept saying that a particular character was left-handed, say.

Most people can't or won't take the time to read the entire thread, so they won't necessarily see something that's said on Page 14, say.

Even with the repetition, new people arrive and make the same false claims about chain letters (even though they've been soundly refuted several times before) all the time, so I'd say repeating the correct information is VERY necessary.

Is it redundant? Yes.

Is it necessary? For the sake of new arrivals, yes.
jacksmom
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 | 02:40 AM
Keep telling yourself that Cranky.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 | 01:43 PM
Well, you certainly told me, didn't you, jacksmom?

As I said, the fact that people keep making the same factually incorrect statements is evidence that the correct information can't be stated often enough.

I'm sure you'll have some snappy comeback to me, maybe something like, "Says you."
Emetophile
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 | 02:32 PM
Daha86... have you ever tried stepping back and looking at what your jokes might look like from someone elses' viewpoint? Rather hurtful.
Butch
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 | 03:54 PM
Wow! I though this was a forum about hoaxes, not egos.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 | 05:18 PM
Gee, Daha, in all your endless yak about ME, you managed not to disprove a single thing I've said about chain letters. Maybe you should try not engaging in ad hominem attack and explain why you think I'm wrong, using FACTS and LOGIC.

OR you could just continue to obsess about me, for whatever perverse reason.
Kellz
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 | 12:15 PM
All of you all need to get off this subject. Cranky you have been at this for damn near 3 years. People are either going to do it or throw the letter away. It is legal in a way but overall illegal....partially open to interpretation, but it is still a chain letter. Proceed at your own risk. 3rd year law candidate, FSU school of law.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 | 02:04 PM
Kelly said:

"It is legal in a way but overall illegal....partially open to interpretation, but it is still a chain letter."

Well, you just blew your credibility right there, "3rd year law candidate."

I can see you in court now. "Your Honor, my client is not guilty. Well, he's KIND OF guilty, but overall not guilty. Know what I mean, judge?"

Over and over, people like you show up here for the first time and tell me that I should stop repeating the same--accurate--information. Then you demonstrate exactly WHY it's so important to repeat it by saying inaccurate things that have been addressed repeatedly.

If you actually bothered to read the thread, 3rd year law candidate Kelly, you'd see where the exact part of the U.S. Postal Service's website that explains why chain letters involving money are illegal has been quoted several times. It doesn't say they're "legal in a way," just ILLEGAL.

You don't even have to read this thread (although you should), 3rd year law candidate Kelly. You must have access to a law library, right? There are even some state laws concerning chain letters you could read about. Some of them have been referenced in this thread recently.

"Proceed at your own risk."

Seriously? That's what a lawyer--sorry, "3rd year law candidate"--tells someone concerning illegal activity? I look forward to reading about your upcoming disbarment on ethics violations.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 | 02:06 PM
Oops, I just realized your name is "Kellz," not "Kelly." Not that FACTS seem to matter much to "3rd year law candidate" Kellz.
That Darn Blister
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 | 08:18 PM
Let's see... Florida state laws concerning chain letters.


849.091 Chain letters, pyramid clubs, etc., declared a lottery; prohibited; penalties.--

(1) The organization of any chain letter club, pyramid club, or other group organized or brought together under any plan or device whereby fees or dues or anything of material value to be paid or given by members thereof are to be paid or given to any other member thereof, which plan or device includes any provision for the increase in such membership through a chain process of new members securing other new members and thereby advancing themselves in the group to a position where such members in turn receive fees, dues, or things of material value from other members, is hereby declared to be a lottery, and whoever shall participate in any such lottery by becoming a member of, or affiliating with, any such group or organization or who shall solicit any person for membership or affiliation in any such group or organization commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A "pyramid sales scheme," which is any sales or marketing plan or operation whereby a person pays a consideration of any kind, or makes an investment of any kind, in excess of $100 and acquires the opportunity to receive a benefit or thing of value which is not primarily contingent on the volume or quantity of goods, services, or other property sold in bona fide sales to consumers, and which is related to the inducement of additional persons, by himself or herself or others, regardless of number, to participate in the same sales or marketing plan or operation, is hereby declared to be a lottery, and whoever shall participate in any such lottery by becoming a member of or affiliating with, any such group or organization or who shall solicit any person for membership or affiliation in any such group or organization commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. For purposes of this subsection, the term "consideration" and the term "investment" do not include the purchase of goods or services furnished at cost for use in making sales, but not for resale, or time and effort spent in the pursuit of sales or recruiting activities.
we'llsee
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 | 10:59 PM
we'll see
Emetophile
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 | 02:59 AM
Well, "Kellz" and "we'llsee", do the names Kelly Creamer and Jeremiah Fisher ring any bells?

If so, read this:
http://www.law.fsu.edu/current_students/rules/index.html

Now, what are the penalties for a law student being reported to the school as running a pyramid scheme?
Wave good-bye to that degree and any chance of passing the bar, kiddie.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 | 01:47 PM
You're scary, Emetophile (and I mean that in a good way). I really hope I never get on your bad side.

Do you work as a P.I. by any chance?
Chris M
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 | 08:13 AM
Has anybody mentioned that you will definitely receive attention from the postal service if you are successful and tens of thousands of letters start arriving at your house. Don't you think you will be investigated if your mail carrier has that many letters for you? Success would lead to your being found out. Failure would go unnoticed.

About the rate of success of the system: If you mailed 100, and the actual rate of success were 3%, you would receive $363. At 4%, it is $1364. I think there is no harm done to those willing to risk a couple hundred dollars. But since it is illegal, and the post office WILL notice, it is a losing game.

The problem is recursive: the illegality discourages almost all people from participating because even if it did work you would get the unwanted attention of the post office and you would be prosecuted.

I realize that others have argued that these pyramids only work for the people who start them and that you cannot join and hope to win. However, if it were legal, and if 5% of the recipients followed the instructions, you WOULD make money. It simply works if you have that rate of return. The question is what is the real rate? It is probably more like 2 percent.
Chris M
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 | 08:30 AM
One more thing I forgot to mention: the letter states that you would ask the 6 people to add your name to their lists. If they are receiving thousands of dollars in the mail (and thousands of names), they are no longer able to add all those names to a list. Sure, they can put you on a list, but they will not be doing any mailing with that list. So that is fraud.

Remember that once you mail your 200 letters, you are done mailing anything else out. Even if you choose to do another mailing, you won't be sending these letters to the people who requested to be on your list. Those people don't need your chain letter again!
Hates-Spammers
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 | 07:09 PM
I think both Genvieve and Reva will be hearing screams of hatred from this person shortly:

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Because their website appears to be stolen property.
pgknight
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 | 07:53 AM
I received this letter this week. I was intrigued because of the Oprah and 20/20 claims. I thought I should Google it first to see what others said about it. Glad I did! I haven't received a chain letter since I was a kid...same old story, sadly. Since so many people are in tough situations with the economy and job losses, I suppose it is an opportune time for this kind of thing. Thanks for the input, throwing it away now!
Janie Carts
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 | 09:14 AM
I got 3 of these in @ a year. I finally got that people ARE doing this! I saved that last one & found myself buying stamps from time to time with it in the back of my mind. One day pulled out the letter & added my name to the bottom of the list while I was at work. Like a week later went to my local mail center & made copies, tons of copies, & they stapled them for free. It's a mom & pop place so I guess they were glad for my business. I got names online of "opportunity seekers" & started putting it all together while I watched TV at night thinking what the hell, given the economy maybe lots of people will respond. I didn't make 100k but went well! I got a PO Box & am doing it again right now! I'm glad I didn't listen to all the online crap so I'm here to say that if people participate, it works. If you scare people out of it, it doesn't. Maybe I'll make more this time if people have a little faith! So please keep OPINIONS to yourself.
lori
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 | 01:03 PM
I am trying it too. My attorney said it may be a waste of time and money, but it is not against the law. WE SHALL SEE!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 | 02:03 PM
Janie Carts said:

"I'm glad I didn't listen to all the online crap so I'm here to say that if people participate, it works."

Right, Janie. By all means, don't bother to read this thread, especially the many times where it is carefully explained WHY chain letters CANNOT and DO NOT work as claimed. You just plow right ahead. Why let the FACTS get in the way of a good opinion?

Lori said:

"I am trying it too. My attorney said it may be a waste of time and money, but it is not against the law. WE SHALL SEE!"

Hmm, what's the word I want here? Oh, right. BULLSHIT! Yeah, that's it. No competent lawyer would tell you such a thing. Again, if you bothered to read this thread, you'd see links to laws that make chain letters involving the exchange of money illegal. I guess those are just "opinion," too, huh?
Emetophile
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 | 08:29 PM
Lori... please tell your "attorney" to prove that he's a member of the bar and not a crook posing as a lawyer.

These letters have been a crime for decades. Long enough that they are the classic example of an illegal pyramid scheme in some police academy textbooks.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 | 08:18 AM
I am truly amazed that this thread has been going on uninterrupted since Nov. 14, 2004, and truly surprised that not one person has mentioned that pyramid schemes are everywhere. From MLM to Big Government. The pyramid concept works not only because of its mathematical, generational attributes, but also because it is charged with mysterious esoteric powers. It is so powerful as a social tool that it appears not only as a Masonic symbol but also on our dollar. Anybody that believes that the chain letter process doesn't work or that its math is counterproductive should look again and look deeper. In fact, it is so dangerous and currently so illegal because it DOES work, only not for established economy or harnessed commerce. The chain letter with a dollar in it is an unharnessed tool of economic distribution unhindered by trade or commerce. It behaves like the air. If given a small refresh rate(5 people). Low investment (50 one-page letters)and legal status. It would shift the balance of economy from corporations, government and banks to the people in the streets. Don't believe me? Take a careful look at the histories of ancient China and Egypt and extrapolate. You will be surprised.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 | 12:34 PM
Oh, so because a pyramid is on the back of the dollar bill, a PYRAMID SCHEME magically works despite the simple arithmetic that proves it doesn't? Well, you just can't argue with "logic" like that.

Threeeyedowl, you should look up the meaning of "magical thinking" some time.

Oh, and while you're at it, why don't you try actually READING THIS THREAD? You'll see links to the part of the U.S. Postal Service's website where it is explained why chain letters don't work and are ILLEGAL as well as state laws that criminalize them. You know, before you go around advocating people get involved in them. You don't want to abet criminal activity, do you?
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 | 11:06 PM
Mr. Cranky, that is precisely your limitation. You are using "simple arithmetic" in trying to grasp a very complex socio-economic methabolism. Let me remind you that I completely agree that it is illegal, but you must admit that if the fear of punishment didn't exist the results would be dramatically different. We humans are a sorry lot. Our worst negative attribute is fear and that is the tool that others use when trying to control or intimidate us. Unluckily for you, Mr. Cranky, that tool doesn't work on me. The undeniable fact is that legal pyramid schemes are everywhere and there is nothing magical about them, open your eyes. It is also true that some pyramid and ponzi schemes including most of the legal MLM (well established) corporations will rob you blind. They only work for the point of the pyramid, and as the bottom grows, the point remains firm and never changes. In this pyramid there is no refresh rate at the point so it becomes richer and richer and the bottom part never makes any money, it just works for the point. The one dollar chain letter is a different pyramidal methabolism. The five or six people at the point are changing constantly, they are never the same. This is called a refresh rate. Saturation is definitely a consideration in any environment, but it becomes less considerable the larger the environment, and this is a very large environment Mr. Cranky. I will repeat myself in your benefit, maybe this time it will sink in. Pyramid schemes and lotteries work fantastically. That's why they are used by banks, corporations, and the government in their legal status. The illegal ones also work, even better... but they are illegal because they are loose money, and that is definitely not something the banks or the corporations want in the hands of the people. Do you get it Mr. Cranky? Or is this to far beyond your grasp? This economy stopped working for the middle class since 1960. We are now a country with a small amount of very rich people and a very large amount of people getting poorer by the month. Which group do you belong to Mr. Cranky? Maybe that is what our middle class needs. A simple legal chain letter to distribute a dollar per letter, unfettered by taxes, banks or government. Five different people at a time. Fifty letters. And everyone participating. Chew on that Cranky.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 | 11:51 PM
By the way, Mr. Cranky, would you direct me to those links you are referring to? The ones that take you to the section of the Post Office that explains why pyramid schemes don
That Darn Blister
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 | 02:45 AM
No, it would not work. The very concept is so fundamentally flawed that the souls of those who swear by it are used as paving stones in Hell. Good intentions, evil, evil results, you know.

Consider the massive damage that has resulted in the few cases where such a letter survived to truly spread. There's a small country in Europe whose inhabitants still shudder at the memories of the late 1990s, when a similar plan was espoused by their leaders. Civil war ensued.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 | 10:30 AM
Would you be so kind as to name the country. Disclose the year of the civil war you mention, and elaborate on the history of the event.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 | 10:36 AM
...and while you're at it Mr. Blister would you take the time to explain what is the basis of your opinion. Does it come from the same platform of beliefs as the pavestones in hell made out of people's souls?
That Darn Blister
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 | 04:16 PM
The country was Albania, and the year was 1997.

Look it up online. There are plenty of articles about it.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 | 10:43 PM
With due respect Mister Blister, the uprising in Albania in 1977 was not caused by a dollar-a-letter chain letter. It was caused by unscrupulous international arms dealers and money launderers in cahoots with corrupt sectors of the government and local banks who embezzled 1.2 Billion in dollar equivalency from Albania's private sector using Ponzi and MLM systems. Albania's population was 3 mil at that time. Do you think all that 1.2 Billion came from them? Hardly a dollar-a-letter operation. Excellent attempt to justify your fear of the dreaded dollar-a- letter though, I completely understand you and Mister Cranky. However, the dollar-a-letter is a completely different socioeconobolism (my own word) that works in a completely different way. Granted
Buster
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 | 10:48 PM
Ever heard of the send-a-dime letter, Mr. Owl?

Only 1/10th as much money as the send a dollar letters... and it did hundreds of millions of dollars of damage in 1935. Right here in the good ole USA.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 | 12:05 PM
True...True... terrible situation. Millions of people drunk with greed, doing the silly. 0.10 cents to the nth converting people into fools as usual. What else happened besides unusual stamps sales and a lot of post office overtime (both good I think)? Any dead? Uprising anyone? Face it guys a situation where the high stakes is a unit of 1.00 dollar isn't that fearful unless you make it be. This dollar-a-letter thing is a fun game. It is definitely illegal (a misdemeanor), like pissing on the sidewalk in the middle of the night, or drinking beer on the beach. Who gives a fuck? Give it a rest and close this boring forum.
Go smoke a joint pendejos.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 | 12:10 PM
Oh...! Fuck!!!!! Is it illegal to tell someone to go smoke a joint ...? Shit...
That Darn Blister
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 | 05:31 PM
It's a felony, not a misdemeanor.
rebeccalrcq
Member
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 | 06:35 PM
Hi all, i just got the letter yesterday. I decided to look on line about it and I'm glad I did. i called one of the numbers on the paper and the guy was rude to me. I'm glad all of you are talking about this.

Thanks
Sonseeker07
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 | 09:01 PM
I've gotten two of these letters in the past two weeks. I am most curious about the specifics of choosing where to get a mailing list--- there is no choosing! You are directed to contact Data Line (in Omaha, NE and operated by the Stone family) for your mailing list--- to the tune of $45. There were six names on each of my letters so that means that Data Line made an easy $540--- probably more than any of the 12 people on the letters I received.
Did Data Line bring this chain letter back to life? I'm going to the post office tomorrow to turn this letter in...
Karphan
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 | 07:17 PM
WOW I've read the middle, the end, the begining, and the end again, I won't bother reading everything but I get the point.

For a split second I had my hopes that this was legit, but because I prefer to investigate things that I'm not sure of, I've learned that this is... um what was that word again... oh right ILLEGAL!!! This forum seems to have gone on forever but so has the chain mail thing.

Some point I was thinking about while reading this and of course this is just my opinion is that Chris M
in St. Louis made a good point that I wondered myself. He stated "One more thing I forgot to mention: the letter states that you would ask the 6 people to add your name to their lists. If they are receiving thousands of dollars in the mail (and thousands of names), they are no longer able to add all those names to a list. Sure, they can put you on a list, but they will not be doing any mailing with that list. So that is fraud.

Remember that once you mail your 200 letters, you are done mailing anything else out. Even if you choose to do another mailing, you won't be sending these letters to the people who requested to be on your list. Those people don't need your chain letter again!"


Another point is, what my local post office would say if I received all these letters? I just checked my mail yesterday from the date of this post and received the one with 20/20 and still cannot find where (online looking) they claimed to have been mention, I'm guessing at this point it's just another word to enhance the dream of making money, I really thought about doing this but after reading the drama that has unfolded in this forum for the last 4 years I'm not going to do it EVER.


Could it be the web site (in this case OpportunitySeeker.com) is the one really setting this up to make the money while you buy mailing list from them? Who's really making the money here? I don't for a second believe the post office is in tune with this lie, yeah they make a buck or two with the stamps but what about all the extra work needed to sort and deliver.

I was willing to waste the 200 dollars to take a chance and see if anything came up, but I am NOT willing to take a chance of getting into trouble with the law for whatever reason, and I'd like to see the wording the post office gave in the links put on here in the past, as the link no longer works.

I don't want a drama match going on, but if cranky is so on about the law why don't he just create a web site devoting all he knows about this topic for people like me who didn't know and therefore chooses to investigate these things. I'm sure there will be a good reason not too but this forum is too long and drama filled to get any facts straight, even though I've made my choice on the matter, it was sorta helpful.
Mary from Maryland
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 | 02:55 PM
The letter I got didn't mentioned dataline but recommended http://www.aboutlists.com
http://www.a1oppoorunityseekers.com www.sellmorelists.com and http://www.opportunityconnection.com apparantly these guys guarantee that the same name and address is fresh and is never issued more than once.

What surprises me no end is the near rabid/fanatic attitude of some (namely crankly et al) I'm surprised no one's quite said that it's the work of the devil.If people want to try this it's their business - it's no more evil than money spent on gambling machines. Also, the powers that be don't want money shifting around the economy without the various tiers of govt, banks and middle-men taking a cut. I know a person who made $15000 thereabouts from this scheme. So there was $15000 sitting in the economy that voluntarily made it's way to this person because 15000 adults without pressure or harassment decided to direct that money to the name of the person on their list. WHy are we getting stressed about this when our own govt simply printed off $800billion dollars that doesn't exist in the economy and donated to it to a series of incompetent banks that still rip us off and shell out indecent salary bonuses. What should we be worried about, a couple of chain letters or the grand theft that took place when our govt bailed out these mega crooks? Generations of future Americans will have to pay with a lower standard of living so that this can be re-payed. Wake up people.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 | 04:15 PM
Mary said:

"I know a person who made $15000 thereabouts from this scheme. So there was $15000 sitting in the economy that voluntarily made it's way to this person because 15000 adults without pressure or harassment decided to direct that money to the name of the person on their list."

Mary, you know perfectly well where that money came from. It came from other people who were hoping to come out ahead by participating in a chain letter but LOST their "investment."

"WHy are we getting stressed about this when our own govt simply printed off $800billion dollars that doesn't exist in the economy and donated to it to a series of incompetent banks that still rip us off and shell out indecent salary bonuses."

Why is this a "one or the other" issue? Isn't it possible to be concerned with BOTH rip-offs at the same time? As I've said repeatedly in this thread, it's hard economic times like these when people should be most wary about getting involved in scams seeking to take what little money they still have.

"What should we be worried about, a couple of chain letters or the grand theft that took place when our govt bailed out these mega crooks?"

Why not be concerned about both?

"Mary," let's be blunt here. I don't believe you're just an average person trying to help people by showing them how chain letters are a good thing. I believe you're INVOLVED in one or more of them. That's why you made sure to mention the names of four companies that sell lists of suckers. Screw you for pretending to want to help financially desperate people.
Mary from Maryland
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 | 04:33 AM
I knew that would get a rise out of you, old Cranks. And I knew you wouldn't be able to resist the temptation of personalising the issue. You have done both,on queue.
Firstly, the reason I mentioned those companies is that I got a letter a mere 2 weeks ago and in it's instructions it listed those companies and not data-line.
Since we are allegedly living in a 'free' country, an adult over the age of consent can make their own decisions as to whether he/she wishes to direct $1 to a complete stranger.The friend I mentioned who participated in this freely (ie sent his $6 to 6 strangers, printed off and sent off God knows how many copies around America at some expense and took all that risk voluntary. On this occasion he was lucky. I will never begrudge him this). Let me not fail to mention that he was a senior IT expert who'd worked with a major US company for 15 years. This company 3 years ago decided to outsource 900 jobs to India for no other reason other than to enhance already massive profits. And yes, that's legal in this free counrty. Left with a mortgage, a disabled wife and 2 youngsters he was desparate.So he made a bit of money that got him over the line until he found another job.
You are totally without any moral fiber if you compare this level of activity to that of the state, with the full might of the military, that comes down on the US tax-payer and donates money to crooked banks who continue to improverish the American people.
There is a culture of "blame the individual", but let the big crooks be they in the guise of corporate theives, govt (yes, periodically we do get bad govt), do whatever they like. Go after the big ones Cranks who do the mega crimes.
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 | 01:25 PM
Jeeeez, Mr. Cranky!!! You must at be manifesting constipation, or backpains, or some degree of insomnia with all this coming and going over such a banal and trivial issue. You did manage to scare the shi* out of Carfan (which you probably enjoyed), but you pissed off Mary (she sounds like she has more backbone than Carfan, and that's what I mean, there's nothing really wrong with sending dollars in letters (doesn't matter how many letters)people are just scared to do it because people like you intimidate them, but as you can observe by Mary's attitude. It doesn't work with everybody. And... I hope this doesn't ruin your day but, it works and some people make money with it. Sorry.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 | 01:51 PM
Mary said:

"I knew that would get a rise out of you, old Cranks."

So what? I'm not the subject of this thread. It isn't about me.

"Let me not fail to mention that he was a senior IT expert who'd worked with a major US company for 15 years. This company 3 years ago decided to outsource 900 jobs to India for no other reason other than to enhance already massive profits. And yes, that's legal in this free counrty."

Assuming your "friend" really exists, he is precisely the type of person that scams like chain letters are designed to victimize. I hate outsourcing as much as anyone. I hate those who lie to people who have been hurt by it even more.

"You are totally without any moral fiber if you compare this level of activity to that of the state, with the full might of the military, that comes down on the US tax-payer and donates money to crooked banks who continue to improverish the American people."

I, of course, did no such thing, but feel free to amuse yourself by pretending I did.

"There is a culture of "blame the individual", but let the big crooks be they in the guise of corporate theives, govt (yes, periodically we do get bad govt), do whatever they like. Go after the big ones Cranks who do the mega crimes."

Hmm, I could swear that I said that it was possible to be concerned about both "big" and "small" crimes. In fact, I believe I said it twice. Since you don't have a better argument in favor of chain letters, though, I guess you're going to keep pretending that you're some sort of champion of the "little guy." So what if chain letters do NOT work as claimed or that they're illegal?

Interesting that you don't deny you're involved with this scam, by the way. So much for being a person who is just looking out for his/her fellow downtrodden.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 | 01:55 PM
Threeeyedowl said:

"I hope this doesn't ruin your day but, it works and some people make money with it. Sorry."

Yes, mostly the scam artists who run the chain letter.

I'll ask the question no one seems to be able to answer again. If chain letters are such a great way for the average person to make money, why don't we run the whole economy by the same principle? Why don't we all just mail money to each other and live on the magical profit we'd all somehow accrue?
Threeeyedowl
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 | 03:03 PM
No, Mr. Cranky, not just the scam artists only. Others also. But you will never believe this. You... are in denial. I already answered your question in my previous post and in many others of my previous posts:

"You did manage to scare the shi* out of Carfan (which you probably enjoyed), but you pissed off Mary (she sounds like she has more backbone than Carfan, and that's what I mean, there's nothing really wrong with sending dollars in letters (doesn't matter how many letters)people are just scared to do it because people like you intimidate them, but as you can observe by Mary's attitude. It doesn't work with everybody."

But you must have just scanned over it and not assimilated it. It is not something you would ever admit to because an admission like that would probably kill you. And that is why You...

are in denial... Sorry.
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