Here's a couple of vampire-themed websites sent in by visitors. First we have the
Federal Vampire and Zombie Agency. According to the blurb on the site, "From 1868 to 1975, the Federal Vampire & Zombie Agency (FVZA) was responsible for controlling the nation's vampire and zombie populations while overseeing scientific research into the undead. This site is a tribute to the men and women who served in the FVZA, especially the over 4000 Agents who lost their lives fighting to keep our country safe." And next we have
The Temple of the Vampire. If you want to live forever, then all you have to do is join the temple. The catch is that in order to join you have to buy their book,
The Vampire Bible. That's a good sales gimmick. I should try something like that for my book, such as if you want to achieve a state of absolute enlightenment, then you have to buy my book.
Comments
So tell me people, exactly where are these "Temples of the Vampire" and "Churches of Satan"? With all their adepts, reverends, grand poo-bahs, and whatever; How do you all fit inside of a post office box? LOL! They don't exist at all.
You've all been had. These organizations are fake. Outside of the internet, they have no place in the world.
The minute that any heat is put on anybody from the ToV, a "Christian" or an "I don't know much about anything but...." spammer comes out and makes a thoughtless/non-contributing post to try and throw off the readers.....Funny!
Do some research if you truly don't much about whats being discussed here.
Oh and for your information, the ToV and the CoS are in your backyard....now you know where they are located.
But you knew that anyway!
Hail Satan!
Yeah...we really need to make sure that the Child-Molesting Catholic Priests have enough space..God love them!
Choose your sides carefully.
I don't see a problem in dishing out ten bucks a month to have access to this message boards. Ten bucks is nothing to me. The whole Vampire aesthetic seems attractive and they do not believe in hollywood vampires.
The ToV seems to be a group of Satanists enjoying the vampire aesthetic and discussing important matters that appeal to most of us. What is the issue here? Where is the incompatablity here?
On the contrary, I believe that Lu Yang and others refused to take "things too seriously" and that's why they are now on the other side of the fence.....by choice.
You don't think that a "culling", "undead-gods" and "taking lifeforce" alone aren't spiritual pipe-dreams?
My advice to you is, if you have indeed read all of the information available to you about the CoS( perhaps maybe the literature that most CoS members read before joining or maybe shortly after) and you still see some legitimacy in the ToV...then by all means join the Temple, they need you!
You can be a Satanist without LttD(contained within it the ToV propaganda machine), if there were not LttD there would be no ToV.
lots of ppl seem to like his stuff..
Nemo is indeed a creative spark within the Church of Satan. His inspiration is motivating the right individuals to join the Church and forcing out the hardcore atheists.
The Church of Satan has evolved from the militant atheist assembly of the previous decade.
You don't think that a "culling", "undead-gods" and "taking lifeforce" alone aren't spiritual pipe-dreams?"
Some people simply don't cut it. They don't have what it takes due to a variety of reasons which may range from the genetic to environmental. Just because you badly want to learn to play the guitar and can afford lessons does not guarantee you will be a good guitar player. The Vampire Teachings develop the innate talent within a person; It does not grant it. If you don't have what it takes, you are not of the Family and should proceed elsewhere.
Those who are not true vampires sometimes feel the need to lash out at us because of their resentment of their own failings.
No one is listening to you.
Rupert wrote"You can be a Satanist without LttD(contained within it the ToV propaganda machine), if there were not LttD there would be no ToV."
Quite the contrary. If there were no LttD, the Church of Satan would return to just being an overpriced red membership card with few members.
You need to get with the new program or take a hike.
Nope, it's because it's a scam. If people leave the group, it's because they smartened up to the bullshit that was being fed to them. If they lash out after leaving, it's because they are pissed about getting ripped off and wasting their time.
And it's not that people are failing, it's that the organization fails to live up to it's grandiose claims and simply isn't worth the $10.00 "subscription" or the embarrassment of being affiliated.
Quote "No one is listening to you."
If no one was listening, as you suggest, there would not be 76 pages to this blog. There are quite a few people listening actually.
But I think what really ruffles your feathers is that you have no power whatsoever to put an end to this discussion. You are not rulers of the earth. You are definitely not anyone's masters. You are, in fact, only human.
Sounds like some kind of admission, 'the new program.' Which 'new program' I wonder?
Is it the 'new program' recently released by Boyd Rice, disbanding the Church of Satan altogether?
Wouldn't that really suck for the ToV?
http://www.boydrice.com/news.html
Having what it takes means able to make monitary contributions in order to gain access to restricted parts of the Lifeforce (ToV) website...That's all there is and that's all there ever was.
There was a CoS long before the Internet...
The ToV is nothing more than a website and an Internet fantasy-land.
The ToV is the brain-child of Nemo who was so dejected by his inability to make it into the heirarchy of the Temple of Skippy.
The ToV is nothing more than a carbon copy of the Temple of Skippy.
Most of us could care less about any other Religions as we have better things to do with our lives....Some of us will do all we can to make sure that this Symbiotic Relationship is crushed.
It's obvious that the ToV's Internet police have high regard for the content of this site....Patrol to your heart-content, Patrol away Sycophant!
Not that anybody outside of his "inner-circle" knows of....but anything is possible.
HP Gilmore doesn't post on LttD, that I've ever seen either.
LttD completely disregards the tenets of the CoS by allowing the ToV to recruit and fly it's banners amongst it's members.
I would assume that with these factors considered, HP Gilmore if a member of the ToV is doing a good job of camoflaging with his actions.
I know that HP Gilmore has professed that he is a fan of Michelle Belanger (I bet Nemo isn't a fan of Michelle Belanger)...
Hail Satan!
It would be useful if former members could compose posts to address to debunk each of the Temple's claims.
Corpus, what is the behind the eyes?
Please explain this to me step-by-step....!
"When will there be new pictures and posts on the ant-temple task force site?"
Feel free....if you feel you have something to contribute, post away!
Those who truly believe in the TOV get roped in to buying all the literature and rings and pendants. They end up trying to live up to ideals that are not their own. As the cult's grip becomes tighter over the "vampire", personal freedoms and egos are dissolved to promote the temple mission and attract new members.
More propaganda is pumped into the individual leading them to believe that they are immortal and/or invincible. This just promotes arrogant reactions which are destructive to the individual.
Further bullshit ideas are accepted, like living forever through cryonics. This just adds another expense to the individual. But they'll get it all back, because they will live forever.
The point is, the TOV cannot guarantee Immortality nor can they show what lies after death for any of its members. The lines of fantasy are stretched and the individual believes more and more of the bullshit.
If the individual questions the information, he is given a vague answer and ridicule follows via the message board.
I can only imagine the fun that these so called vampires are now having as facebook rises and puts physical names to all these identities. Its funny how everyone involved that are the higher ups have no faces or wear masks to intimidate the lower level initiates, but this is all common place when you are playing games with people.
I have tested the TOV and I have found that it does not meet up to my expectations, nor will it live up to any rational individual. If that means that I'm not going to live with the Undead then so be it. I've gone through the same thing with the study and rejection of christianity.
I think that anyone who manages to see beyond the "Twilight" will agree that Vampirism is a joke. The only power they acquire is through draining the bank accounts of their followers.
If you want to give out your personal information to unknown entities on the WWW, by all means, go ahead. But you have been warned that EVERYONE on the higher levels of the TOV know that it is a scam. It dominates over its members financially, mentally, and physically. Those who begin to see through it, are discarded or promoted up to plundering newer members.
What is this "Twilight"? Can someone describe what it is?
"Those who begin to see through it, are discarded or promoted up to plundering newer members."
Do higher ups receive financial compensation for recruiting new members? Does Magister Frost get paid for his services for the ToV?
"Behind the Eyes" is a practice taught by Nemo on the ToV to achieve the "Vampiric Will".
It basically means changing your perspective of experience by shifting your perception of yourself from your body to an entity behind your eyes. Meaning always being aware that you are looking at the world from behind the eyes.
It was first mentioned by Nemo in the Ruby Tablet of Set.
Other writers have mentioned a similar practice.
The Twilight is a condition that is achieved when the "vampire" manages to make the Nightside bullshit spill into the Dayside.
Some of them I'm sure do get some money. Faelyn, Ventrue and a few others.
Decon: That is not so.I have the Ruby Tablet. There is no mention of BTE in Nemo's contribution. Most of the Vampire Predator Bible is in the Ruby Tablet but not BTE.
"Other writers have mentioned a similar practice."
Decon: If this is so, name one.
"Some of them I'm sure do get some money. Faelyn, Ventrue and a few others."
Decon: In other words, you have no idea. You assume that they are getting money.
"The Twilight is a condition that is achieved when the "vampire" manages to make the Nightside bullshit spill into the Dayside."
Decon: Twilight is the achievement of balance between your Dayside and Nightside perspectives. The tension between both permits the experience of Twilight.
As you can see, your sincere questions were responded to with the wrong answers. If you seek to investigate this further, take the Next Step. You Know what it is. No one can take this Step but you.
The whole of the "Deidentification process" and the "Vamiric Will" is in the Ruby Tablet. Including BTE and WTW. I just read through it.
And I'm sorry I didn't choose my words carefully when answering the question about the so-called "Twilight" crap.
And I did take "the Step", as you call it. I took, in fact all of the steps - I was an Adept in the ToV for some time.
Stop evangelising your lies here. Especially to the sort of morons who would be interested in that ToV shit.
Reverse that. The only material from the Predator Bible in the Ruby Tablet is BTE and the consequences of adopting the perspective.
"Decon: If this is so, name one."
Buddhist practices hint at it. Douglas Harding independently stumbled on it and got more tied up with it in his Headless Way approach. No one is really an originator of the technique, which is directly perceptual and universal. The Predator Bible gets to the nitty gritty of it as a base/foundational perceptual shift for advanced work.
"If you seek to investigate this further, take the Next Step. You Know what it is. No one can take this Step but you."
Agree.
To add on -
The TOV hasn't ever claimed it "invented" anything. There are mentions of its teachings being the Source or Origin, but this is in a different context (hence the capitals) and not referring to the 1989 Temple of the Vampire approach. Many misunderstandings stem from a lack of sensitivity to the context. Plus without some roots in experience and an understanding of the wider contextual framework discussions get downright silly and airy-fairy and/or nonsensical.
Additionally the trend is that anyone with serious interest tends to directly approach these things through the Temple's avenue out of volition, while the overly critical will usually never get passed their objections. Debates don't change that.
Written dialogue can be a wonderful tool for elucidation of certain issues (and philosophical ones such as on epistemology and metaphysics are discussed among active members who are already undergoing training in that area), but the real action isn't found in written or oral communication.
Just an opinion from my vantage point. Now I'll step out of everyone's way and let the conversations continue.
Lu Yang, do you agree? Are there other variations other than Douglas Harding?
Do you have something important to say?
All you do is bring others deeds and words to the attention of others who may not be interested. Always proclaiming something someone else did.
Do you ever have any interesting thoughts? is there anything you can contribute to any debate? Norway is a great nation. There is no way you can be from there. Go back and crawl under your mothers dress where you came. Leave the discussion boards to the adults.
Lu Yang, do you agree? Are there other variations other than Douglas Harding?"
Here you go,
http://seeinganew.tripod.com/id10.html
Locate the Watcher and be reborn. No membership fee. No ritual medallion. No membership cards.
Blessed Be,
Raven Morning
Oh that's right, we call it "Evolution".
Enjoy living in a deluded fantasy world ya fucking bat shit crazy vermin.
In the post you obviously reacted to I said that a common strategy seems to be personal attacks when your philosophy is questioned. I was right.
And how can you be complaining about me bringing attention to a thread, which YOU, yourself is keeping alive by your very participation?
And does a thread of fourteen pages seems like a lack of interest? And discussion boards is for just that, not ass-kissing your way to false self-esteem.
Now, I hold nothing personal against the Temple of the Vampire, it was actually a subject of interest to me before. But I fail to see how this is compatible with the Church of Satan, and Ive seen no decent explanation of the so-called "compatability" other than petty double-speak.
You do not have my respect or anyone elses here I will not entertain your petty panting for attention. At my university, there is a boy like you who is always disturbing lectures so he can get attention. He is a nobody. Like you. Craving for attention. You are the one ignoring questions. You have never presented even a single creative thought on any message board you troll on. All you do is post "look Boyd Rice did this" or "look Temple of the Vampire did that".
Little boy, go back between mothers legs. Baba Yaga is sent to you into your mind. She takes things you value from you. It is too late. You have read this message. Now, Baba Yaga has you. As time goes on you will lose. You are forever cursed. Nothing you can do about it.
Poor little Wolflust cursed with the raging spirit of the portentous Baba Yaga. Crying like a baby, Wolflust is. The spell is weaved and cannot be broken.
Without discussing Temple matters in depth due to confidentiality as I am not an authorized rep - although it's difficult to not step out of that boundary, I'll try speaking on a broader base to touch on your question. I'll add also that I'm not a member of the C/S nor self-identify as a Satanist although I have a cursory understanding of Lavey's philosophy.
I think the underlying tension is with the Temple's open exploration of "perinormal" experiences. That domain is usually vewed as a subtle extension of our normal everyday experiences, just culturally ignored or glossed over (perhaps not so in Borneo, for example). They are just skills, like swimming or fishing to use odd analogies. They aren't the end goals themselves, only a means to the goal of ego fullfillment, development, and satisfaction. They also don't take precedence over "normal" physical skills, but are on equal footing. They also don't need to be used either, and a Dayside Vampire can be just as successful without ever entering the arena of the "paranormal."
I do recall Lavey's Satanic Bible revealing his theoretical framework for "magic" being a bioelectrical "energy" a la Reich, a byproduct of emotional discharge in a ritual setting. It's similar to what we learn to work with our beginnings in the Temple, although probably not a 1:1 correlation. Importantly it does reveal Lavey's non-aggressive attitude toward anything not within a strict western scientific rationalist context (the popular resistance to vitalism didn't restrain his exploration and experimentation). I know some C/S folks wouldn't agree and ultimately operate in a hard-nosed materialistic paradigm. Not a problem, however as I understand Satanism from Anton Lavey both stances are a personal choice and not an inherent aspect of the Satanic philosopy (that one must deny any non-popular viewpoint). The main idea expressed by Lavey in his Satanism is the real importance of the material, present reality and not an issue of which aspects of that same reality are "real" or "unreal." If a Satanist finds that telepathy works in his experience and uses it to improve his lot in life (and not to channel Aunt Susie to relieve his worry about a better afterlife to come) then I doubt it is an issue (curiously Lavey's ultimate theory of how magic worked was through the channel of telepathy, which he accepted as a valid process).
Second issue is usually with the Undead. Discussing that category here would bring it out of proper context (that's why the Temple has five progressive Grades, each encompassing the former. The 3rd "Circle" is where the Undead fit in proper contextual discussions). Succinctly, they are real people who have a sufficient degree of mastery of the skills taught in the Temple. There is no eye-wide worship or kneeling, but a teacher-apprentice relationship. More than that is pushing my liberty to discuss these things.
Let me know how well I addressed the question.
I appreciate your mature and decent answer. And it also shed light on some things for my part. I appreciate that.
Thank you!
Thank you for your insights. I have had a strong interest in the Temple of the Vampire for some time now.
What are the differences between the Temple of the Vampire and the Temple of Set?
Thanks
We really don't have any ties with the Temple of Set. I know as much about them as I do the Church of Satan, but I can point out one variation with the idea of how the authentic core Self is defined. While Setian philosophy encourages the shaping of the Self into a different entity than one is born with (Xeper, i.e. "becoming") Temple philosophy teach a different conception of the Self and its relationship with "reality," essentially that in any honest pursuit of your "Self" you can never find it in any experience. The idea that what you think of as your common identity (ego) as defined and shaped by your experience being your authentic self is a mental illusion, a reification of what are really more than one processes. Recognition of that doesn't really dismantle your coherent personality or detach one from appreciation of experience. The term we give to this realization is "Deidentification." Is the Self the same as "reality," or does experience/reality emanate from the Self and are distinct? What is consciousness exactly? Can one become more awake or lucid than what one is experiencing right now? One fun book is The Self-Aware Universe by Amit Goswami. That's one questions that's explored in the Temple. There are nuances attached to this and it directly leads to the mechanics of what's commonly termed "magic," but it's difficult to discuss them without the necessary experiential and consequently cognitive foundations.
"Those are *some* questions that are explored in the Temple."
I need a coffee...
Thanks for your most informative response.
I have a few more questions if you don't mind and then I'll bother you no more!
Are these subjects(like consciousness and magic) actively explored within the Temple message boards?
Is there any public Temple of the Vampire message board?If not, it would not be a poor idea to start one.
Last one, if you don't mind, how have you benefited from the Temple?
Just clarifying my original question; Some occult groups pretend to have inside knowledge into magic and make many claims. Once you join, the higher ups are said to have all the knowledge and do not share it with the newer members and nobody ends up discussing the cool subjects because they are implied to be taboo.
Is the Temple like this or is it more open minded where those who have been there longer do not mind interacting with newbies?
Thanks.
Stop being led into this bullshit cult. It's a scam. A waste of time and money.
There are better things out there!
http://vampiretemple.com/faq.html
http://vampiretemple.com/index.html
http://www.vampiretemple.com/lifeforce/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=54203#Post54203
To the extent that newer members need assistance, there is a mentorship program just put in operation recently between a neophyte and a member of the Priesthood who work one-on-one on just what you are talking about. If there is any material not discussed with newbies, it is only in an understanding that learning and progress happen in gradual steps and that some subjects cannot be easily grasped at the current level of the member's development stage. It is up to the mentor and other more experienced members to be sensitive to the later and use their best judgment. But there isn't any "secrets." Unfortunately, that's asking you to believe me and you shouldn't!
Also keep in mind that the Temple is mostly concerned with functional knowledge (how it can be applied at an individual level), not knowledge for knowledge's sake. You are welcome to peruse the links above provided by Help.
From the Temple of the Vampire FAQ http://vampiretemple.com/faq.html#secret
"I want to learn more, but I'm afraid that someone who knows me will find out about it.
We can't guarantee that no one will ever find out about your interest, but we can promise confidentiality. We will neither reveal nor confirm anyone's membership in the Temple of the Vampire, with the sole exception being as required by law such as in a criminal investigation (which has as yet to happen). Members are required to respect this confidence as well. Also, the name on the return label for all Temple mail is simply 'TOV.' This policy of secrecy has worked well enough for our members around the world since 1989."
The "topic" is to create and reinforce an impression that the ToV is a joke. If your posts portray the ToV as a "scam" then you are being "respectful."
Suddenly there are several asking serious questions and receiving serious answers about the ToV on this board.
The fact that there are questions and responses which are serious and not in a joking manner impresses upon the mind of the reader that perhaps the Temple is not a hoax. This reality apparently scares the shit out of some people. I cannot believe anyone felt threatened enough by this to post "Please remember to respect this lair/MoH forum's topic here and go to the Temple's website and messageboard for membership information."
How pathetic.
Return to your circle jerk of those who got kicked out of the Temple or those who should not have joined it in the first place.
I am not even a member but it is too obvious to see where some are coming from here.
If anyone is aware of any public board where the ToV can be discussed please link here so I can continue the discussion. I do not have access to the Temple board because I;ve not purchased a Bible.
pls answer this. This is the one thing preventing me from subscribing.