Prebirth Experiences

This topic seems old now, and it's been a while since anyone posted here, but I wanted to thank all those who have shared their pre-birth memories. They are fascinating and I believe you all when you say they are real to you. I don't have pre-birth memories myself, but please know that my sharing your stories you give hope to people like myself that there is more to life than just the physical.

Cranky, I can also understand your line of arguement. I do however have a few questions for you. Science has proved a great many things, and has given us a wealth of improvements to our daily lives. But has it really disproved the validity of these experiences beyond all reasonable doubt? Does Science yet know *exactly* how memory and imagination works? How the subconscious works? Every mystery of human existance? Until it manages this, I believe it will hinder our progress to remain close minded to the possibility that these experiences are as real as the air you are currently breathing and the words you are currently reading. What if back when everyone believed the world was flat, everyone had remained close minded to the possibility that it may well be round? They would all have scoffed at the idea (and for a long time, did) that spending time and research into other possibilites when it could be used on much more valuable things like building their own personal wealth, or developing new ways to vanquish their enemies and take more land for themselves.

As far as I have read, Science has proven that the brain records, archives, and retrieves memories, but has not yet come to a definate conclusion on where they are stored. The following is a link to an article I recently read on this, though it obviously has a spiritual twist. http://www.viewzone.com/memorytest1.html If you have more up to date information where Science has proven otherwise I would be interested in seeing it.

Once more, thank you to those brave people who have shared their stories here for others to read.

Lissi said:

"Science has proved a great many things, and has given us a wealth of improvements to our daily lives. But has it really disproved the validity of these experiences beyond all reasonable doubt?"

So, you're holding science to a standard of absolute proof. OK, but it seems as if those who propose the notion of a zygote being able to form and store memories are held to a standard of "if you say it happened, that's proof enough." Also, you're asking science to prove a negative where the burden of proof actually belongs to those who propose that a fetus or zygote possesses the ability to form and store memories.

"What if back when everyone believed the world was flat, everyone had remained close minded to the possibility that it may well be round?"

Well, it would still have been round, for starters. Their belief in a flat Earth, no matter how sincere, would not have meant that the Earth really WAS flat.

It was people who actually TESTED it by sailing off into the unknown who determined the shape of our planet. That's what science does: TEST THINGS, as opposed to religion which simply says, "This is what I believe and no facts or evidence will convince me otherwise."

In fact, some religions and the adherents of them steadfastly maintained that the Earth WAS flat, long after the roundness of it had been well-established.

In a similar vein, it's only recently that the Catholic Church pardoned Galileo for the "sin" of saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun centuries ago. Galileo, of course, had actually TESTED things while the Pope arrogantly thought that his BELIEF outweighed that stupid "science" stuff.

"Once more, thank you to those brave people who have shared their stories here for others to read."

I don't doubt for a second that those people actually believe that they can remember being in the womb but I think it's important to remember that the plural of "anecdote" is not "fact."

Hi CMG,

I've not made my mind up myself either way about the veracity of these accounts, purely because I have not experienced anything like it myself. However that to me does not mean that I can say they were not real events as much as it means I can say they were not...

"So, you're holding science to a standard of absolute proof. OK, but it seems as if those who propose the notion of a zygote being able to form and store memories are held to a standard of "if you say it happened, that's proof enough." Also, you're asking science to prove a negative where the burden of proof actually belongs to those who propose that a fetus or zygote possesses the ability to form and store memories."

No, I'm not holding science to a burden of proof, I'm merely stating that I trust in what science has proven without a shadow of a doubt (ie, the world is round) and keep an open mind about everything it is still trying to fathom (ie, where memories are actually stored). I don't believe a fetus or zygote can form or store memories, and I don't think these people do either. Often then see the fetus from an *outside* perspective in these visions. I remain open to the possibility that memories and consciousness are nonlocal (our "mind"), and the brain is a tool to be used by this mind to interact with an objective reality. http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers;/papers/morphic/morphic_intro.html is one such theory which may be closer to your comfort zone in that he does not believe in a life "between", or even a continuity between "selves", but he does believe the "mind" is nonlocal. This would mean that the memory was always "there", but could not be expressed or interupted by the brain until it matured enough - and it is then expressed by the words and concepts learnt in this life...

"Well, it would still have been round, for starters. Their belief in a flat Earth, no matter how sincere, would not have meant that the Earth really WAS flat."

And if pre-life memories are real, they'll still be real even if you believe they aren't 😊 Because of this, I don't think it really matters to these people that they can't prove it to you. To them they are real, and they give comfort to both them and others that we are more than just biological input/output devices.

"It was people who actually TESTED it by sailing off into the unknown who determined the shape of our planet. That's what science does: TEST THINGS, as opposed to religion which simply says, "This is what I believe and no facts or evidence will convince me otherwise."

Have you ever read the work of Bob Monroe? Or "My Big TOE" by Tom Campbell? http://books.google.com/books?id=6To0902iZeYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=my+big+toe&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false These guys aren't religious, believe in science, and repeatedly test things in their field of expertise. And yet they have been led to believe that there is something more than physical reality. If you only read the science papers that fit with your materialist view, you will be sure that this is all there is. But if you read contrasting work from scientists who take a different stance, you may find the limits of your mind stretched a little - I know I did. I'm not saying I take their word as gospel, I'm saying it gives me food for thought.

"In fact, some religions and the adherents of them steadfastly maintained that the Earth WAS flat, long after the roundness of it had been well-established.

In a similar vein, it's only recently that the Catholic Church pardoned Galileo for the "sin" of saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun centuries ago. Galileo, of course, had actually TESTED things while the Pope arrogantly thought that his BELIEF outweighed that stupid "science" stuff."

I agree with you. I don't like organised religion either - no offense to those here who do. I believe it closes peoples minds into controllable boxes and stops people from looking out for greater truths. I will say that I personally believe (if life after death really does exist) that sticking too strongly to a certain religion boxes you in even *after* death if you aren't willing to open up a little 😊 I don't believe in God in the way portrayed by the Bible, and I don't believe that Jesus is my one and only true savior. Again, that doesn't mean that I believe these people's memories. If dreams can be subjective, why can't the "afterlife"?

If you are completely closed to the idea of the "mind" existing seperate to the body, then I am wasting my words. And that's fine! 😊 I actually like talking about this stuff and being challanged, it gives me room to grow. I can't and don't want to change your views on anything. If, on the other hand, you fancy thinking outside the box a little, take a look into some of the references I've cited. Even better, if you don't already - take up meditation - Science say's it's good for your health! >:) And you may find your subconscious can tell you more than you know you knew!

Hi Lissi & Cranky,

I think the link that Lissi posted should be:

http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers;/papers/morphic/morphic_intro.html

The bottom line is this: I don't care about which religion is right or wrong, or what anyone else thinks about my memories. I know I have memories of another time and place, if I am honest with myself. I don't "believe" that I have them - I know with certainty that I have them. How can others have the same or very similar pre-birth memories as I do? At least that should prompt some scientific investigation.

Thank you for the correction Chris, I don't know how that ; got in there!

I've also spotted another major typo - When I said "Again, that doesn't mean that I believe these people's memories. If dreams can be subjective, why can't the "afterlife"? ", I meant "That doesn't mean I DON'T believe these people's memories". Sorry if there was confusion there Chris and you felt I was invalidating you. I believe the afterlife is subjective, and the "universal mind" as I prefer to call it can accomodate any type of "belief system". To me it explains that different people use different words to explain their experience, but the underlying mechanics are the same. The "God" I don't believe in is the one who picks and chooses who belongs in "heaven" and who doesn't, and that you must follow one path alone. I believe we judge ourselves with help from a higher wisdom, and make plans on how we can do "better" in our next lives so that we are more in balance with our fellow man and the earth that supports us.

Chris said:

"How can others have the same or very similar pre-birth memories as I do?"

I worked outside the White House from February 1995 to February 1998. There are a lot of, shall we say "interesting" people who flock to the White House for various reasons. During my time there, I knew two people who were convinced that someone had put a chip in their head for nefarious purposes. I also knew two people who were convinced that they were the Second Coming of Christ. How is it possible, Chris, that two people could have the same experiences? I mean, that MUST PROVE that they were right about them, yes?

Lissa said:

"I don't think it really matters to these people that they can't prove it to you. To them they are real, and they give comfort to both them and others that we are more than just biological input/output devices."

That would also be true of the people I knew outside the White House. The fact that they couldn't prove what they believed to be true made absolutely NO difference. It was real to them.

Hi Cranky,

The difference is that the people you describe were delusional. There are many sane people on posint their experiences on many different websites about their pre-birth memories - nothing so bold as having a computer chip planted in their head or that they are Christ. We are just ordinary people recounting what we remember, oue earliest memories, and in fact many of us were initally reluctant to tell anyone about the memories, for fear of being thought to be crazy by others. That alone demonstrates that were are not crazy or delusional. So, I know the point you are trying to make, but I don't think the comparison is truly apples to apples.

sorry the above sentence should read:

There are many sane people posting their experiences on many different websites ...

Chris said:

"The difference is that the people you describe were delusional."

I assume you're saying that because what the people I knew outside the White House had beliefs that are irrational, unlikely or defy the known laws of physics, yes?

"There are many sane people on posint their experiences on many different websites about their pre-birth memories - nothing so bold as having a computer chip planted in their head or that they are Christ."

I don't see how you can say that thinking you have a chip in your head is categorically more delusional than believing you can remember a time when you didn't have the organs required to store such memories. Not to say that I think what they told me was true, but it is NOT impossible to have a chip in one's head. Do you know for an absolute FACT that they DON'T have a chip in their heads? Can you PROVE that one of them ISN'T the Second Coming?

"[M]any of us were initally reluctant to tell anyone about the memories, for fear of being thought to be crazy by others. That alone demonstrates that were are not crazy or delusional."

My acquaintances outside the White House didn't always think they were the Second Coming or that they had a chip surgically implanted in their heads. There was a time when they came to believe those things and felt they had to tell others. Were they sane on Monday and suddenly crazy on Tuesday?

One of the things I found fascinating about those people is that when I had conversations with them about things other than their unusual obsessions, generally speaking they seemed as normal as anyone else.

Just so you understand, I'm not saying that people who think they can remember their zygote days are necessarily "crazy." I'm saying the line between sincere belief and delusion is not nearly as well-defined as you seem to think.

One man's sincere belief is another man's mental aberration.

OK, so you think that my pals outside the White House were delusional and therefore their belief in microchips implanted in peoples' skulls shouldn't be taken seriously.

It's one thing for people who come to the White House because of possible mental illness to espouse such things. Certainly, no person in a position of responsibility could possibly believe in such nonsense.

Hey, what's this article I just found in the Washington Post?

http://tinyurl.com/yhbucf3

Hmmm. Here we have responsible, productive members of society--state legislators, no less--who believe in the exact same thing as the "crazies" outside the White House. I'll bet some of these Virginia legislators were reluctant to talk about their beliefs, which apparently somehow makes them automatically credible.

Of course, on the other hand, according to Lissi, it doesn't really matter if this stuff is REAL. What matters is that believing in it makes a person feel better. Under that subjective standard, I guess the Virginia legislature should pass this bill ASAP. I mean, we DO want Virginians to feel better, don't we?

CMG, if you are going to misquote me, then please state which part of my response you are referring to. I assume you are referring to:

"And if pre-life memories are real, they'll still be real even if you believe they aren't smile Because of this, I don't think it really matters to these people that they can't prove it to you. To them they are real, and they give comfort to both them and others that we are more than just biological input/output devices."

If you read my response carefully rather than skimming over it and reading between the lines, you will see that your interpretation is way off the mark. Perhaps your view of reality is not as free from preconceptions as you believed?

I said that "If they are real, then they will STILL be real, even if you disbelieve them" - much the same way that the earth is still round, even though people believed it to be flat. Therefore, it matters not to those with memories if they are believed or not. And to them, and others who are keen to read their stories, they give credance to the statement coined by Robert Monroe - that we are "more than our physical bodies".

Memories are subjective, framed within the perceptions and beliefs of those that hold them. However if you really do your research on this subject there is a current of an underlying truth to these memories which seem to be near universal between them, as Chris has tried to explain to you many times.

You keep bringing up the same arguements for your reasoning and get Cranky (ahem 😊) when people "gloss over them", however have you troubled yourself to give others the same respect by following the references that I or others have referenced? Or is your mind too focused on being "right" to give alternative views a chance?

Until Science explains the Mind-Body problem http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Mind-body_problem , I prefer to keep an open mind myself with view that there may be things that Science can never fully explain as they are outside of the subset of Physical Reality.

Thanks Lissi, I agree with you completely.
Cranky, you really are a bit cranky today.
I think the Virginians sound a bit paranoid, although who wants more government or insurance company control over our bodies? Not me!
No chips please!

Cranky, the standard that you hold us to is: proving our memoires are real beyond a shadow of a doubt, scientifically if you will. How can that even be done when science doesn't even know exactly how memories are stored? Again, credibility of the person reporting the pre-birth memories is important, and I'm telling you the truth. The memories are there in my mind - whether actually experienced or somehow induced by something else. They are not like a dream. I can remember what I saw and felt - as I'm typing this response to you - just like any of my other earthly memories. However, pre-birth memories are somehow enhanced, because of the "high-definition (HD)-like experience" where one is not restricted to the limitations of ones body. For example when I communicated telepathically - there were emotions conveyed with the thoughts, and therefore the pre-birth memories are quite embedded, and emotions can be remembered along with the message. Very strange sounding I know, but true. So I'm all for investigation of this phemonenon, and since so many people have experienced pre-birth memories, I honestly don't know how you can dismiss their accounts as a hoax with absolute certainty. If not for the internet, these pre-birth memory accounts would not have surfaced to the degree that they have.

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your response. Do you mind if I ask you a question about the telepathy? What you described before is something I have come across many times in my research in this and other topics.

Thinking back to the memory, do you recall if the telepathy was definately in English? Or was it more a complete concept conveyed in words and emotions, which now that you have a language you rely on has been "translated" into the best fit here and now. So for instance, had you turned out to be born French, you would explain the concept in French? Does that make any sense to you?

Chris said:

"Cranky, the standard that you hold us to is: proving our memoires are real beyond a shadow of a doubt, scientifically if you will."

Well, over and over, the argument is made that science cannot ABOLUTELY ESTABLISH where memories are formed and stored. That inability seems to make some people think that anything they propose as a theory must therefore be true. Uh, no.

By the way, what's wrong with demonstrating scientifically that something is at least POSSIBLE?

"Again, credibility of the person reporting the pre-birth memories is important..."

And yet you seem to dismiss out-of-hand the members of the Virginia House of Delegates who seek to stop Satan's evil plan to install microchips in our skulls. As elected officials, don't they have credibility?

I think what you actually mean is that anyone who says what you agree with has credibility to you. That's a logical trap we all fall prey to occasionally.

"I honestly don't know how you can dismiss their accounts as a hoax with absolute certainty."

I've never said these stories were hoaxes. In fact, I've deliberately said more than once that I'm quite sure that the people who think they have pre-birth memories are sincere. Sincerity, however, is not proof of VERACITY.

Have you ever heard of "false memory syndrome?" I think your "pre-birth memories" are akin to that. In other words, you are absolutely certain you can remember what happened to you before you were born, but you are mistaken.

"Have you ever heard of "false memory syndrome?" I think your "pre-birth memories" are akin to that. In other words, you are absolutely certain you can remember what happened to you before you were born, but you are mistaken."

I think this is a key point - you "think" this is what they are, ie. you "believe" this to be the case. IMO, that's absolutely fine and you are entitled to your own beliefs.

I have a different "belief". I am 90% sure that these memories are based in some sort of truth. Until Science can tell us one way or another which is Reality, I prefer to research both views. The 10% of doubt lets me wake up each morning thankful to be alive, appreciating every moment I get to spend with my loved ones, and not to get too caught up in petty quarrels.

"Well, over and over, the argument is made that science cannot ABOLUTELY ESTABLISH where memories are formed and stored. That inability seems to make some people think that anything they propose as a theory must therefore be true. Uh, no."

I don't think the people you are aiming this at believe they have any kind of theory to explain what they are stating. They are merely putting forward an experience they believe they have had. They aren't scientists. Though there are many scientists who DO research this kind of thing, especially once you get to the quamtum level and beyond. That stuff is just plain wierd! 😊

Cranky,

This is a multipart response if your readers are interested in approaching pre-birth memory from another point of view.

Okay. I saw a man on a horse.

The fact remains that you may have seen the same man on the same horse. You ask the following questions:
What color was the horse?
What was the man wearing?
Was he sitting backward or forward on the horse? You get the point.

Of course, we need to share our understandings, beliefs and ideas, as these represent some of the constants enabling our dichotomist existence as clothed-paths

Part (2)

We are clothed-paths motivated by two forms of certainty: certainty of, and certainty to, THE WHOLE and THE PERSONAL. I believe that individual certainty to, is that dream that so many of us surrender for one reason or another, especially when faced with opposing wills.

What you should be doing with your pre-birth memory is my question.

On this journey of dichotomies to there, while here; where truth and lie are as clear and as unclear as our paths, minds, and hearts perceived them to be. We have proven repeatedly that we can produce from that void, faith

Lissi, Cranky & De -

Lissi - to answer your question, I'm using words in english today to describe the thoughts (not words) and emotions that were shared between me and the angel guides, and Jesus etc., pre-birth.

Cranky - I knew you would overreact to what I wrote about scientists not knowing exactly how memories are stored. My point is that there is still much to learn. Also, I do not "believe" I have pre-brith memories - I simply have them whenever I recall what happenened long ago, so therefore I know or remember these memories. If I told YOU that you didn't really remember anything about high school, and that if you did, you had "False Memorey Syndrome" - how would you feel? Also, I have provided you with a scientific definition of false memorey syndrome a few pages back - and you are taking the definition out of context in order to make your point! The members of the Virginia House of Delegates are being paranoid and irrational about the chips - sorry - due to their religious beliefs. Do you always find politicians credible? (ha ha) I do not.

De - here is my dichotomy - I'm lying or I'm telling the truth. (Guess what - I'm telling the truth - whether Cranky likes it or not)

Lissi - what else have you found out about the people you have researched who have had pre-birth memories?

Chris -

Thank you for your reply. I was hoping you'd say that! That is what I meant (and I didn't mean to ask about "words", that was the wrong description, so I'm glad you clarified). My theory is along the lines that what people call the "soul" is what Science calls the "subconscious" which speaks to us in feelings, images, etc. Many of us tend not to associate with this part of us as "us" yet I believe it is that part that carries on after death. This is a feeling I get and could well be wrong but it serves me for now.

As to finding out about others, I believe on the most part I have found no more that you - Every time I come across a site which I think "Hey, I should tell Chris!" I find you have already made a comment :D If you are willing to look at other experiences people have had that fall out of your belief systems slightly (ie they are not so much focused on "God" and "Jesus", but non religious concepts such as "The Big Cheese"), you may wish to check out the work of Bob Monroe, Bruce Moen and Tom Campbell (the last of which I have given a link to previously). They deal with "OBEs" so I'm not sure if it will fit in your faith as some religions frown on this, but they speak of the same type of comunication, the same type of entities and are very "left brained" in their thinking so bridge the gap between Science and the "paranormal" very well.

De - I would love to know when your book comes out, is there some way I could be notified when you finish working on it?

Chris said:

"If I told YOU that you didn't really remember anything about high school, and that if you did, you had "False Memorey Syndrome" - how would you feel?"

Well, I would feel that you are making an inaccurate comparison between my high school memories and YOUR "pre-birth memories."

For one thing, I have actual physical high school yearbooks which back up the fact that I attended the specific high school I say I did. For another, there are other people who can corroborate many of my memories of high school.

Your "pre-birth memories" have NO such external back up. All we have is your BELIEF that you can remember a time before your organs were fully formed.

"The members of the Virginia House of Delegates are being paranoid and irrational about the chips - sorry - due to their religious beliefs."

Oh, THEY are delusional because they make unlikely assertions, but YOU are not even though you are doing the same thing. Ah.

Hi Lissi and Cranky -

Lissi - check out the experiences listed on this website. Michael's experience is very similar to mine and he is my age:

http://www.prebirthexperience.com/

There are others with pre-birth on other websites as well.

So Cranky, I can compare my memories to your high school memories, because they are just that, i.e. "our memories." As far as corroboration, the above website contains accounts written by other people that do corroborate some of my memories since many of their memories are identical to mine. As far as physical evidence goes, I cannot produce any just yet - but that doesn't mean the someday science might be able to.

Lissi - I think you are on to something about the soul and the subconscious. Only a small part of our brain is used, and it may be storing a lot of information that we are unaware of - perhaps our complete identity and the past knowledge and memoires that go along with it. I don't have time currenlty to participate in organizied religion, but in the future I'd like to, but I definitely cannot agree with some of the things organized religions believe in. My pre-birth memories, do however, give me confidence that there is a God and Jesus. I acutally am very involved in science, and in fact, have to go back to reading my textbook tonight. I absolutely "believe" in the "theory" of evolution, etc., so I'm very open to what scientific study can demonstrate. We need to keep an open mind - and yes, that includes even you Cranky!

I have a pre-birth memory but unlike some of these other stories, mine is extremely simple.

The mind and body are separate, but while on Earth we need the brain to process thoughts. The brain is our mind in the physical but in death or out of the physical our mind is just pure conscious thought powered by God.

Anyways, my pre-birth memory:

Everything was dark (that I can remember) and it was communicated to me without words what gender I wanted to be (boy or girl, I was asked). I clearly remember, before being born into this world thinking to myself and answering whatever asked me, "I WANT TO BE A BOY." Those six words remained with me after I was born and it's how I feel my time line for existence starts at. I don't have memories of previous lives. Some people talk about a veil that is thrown over your mind when you are born so you forget many other details about the life you're choosing. I unfortunately only have the luxury of remembering what gender I chose, but either way I was allowed to remember something.

I first told of my pre-birth memory when I was around ten to my mother and she didn't pay much attention to it. I tried to tell a couple other people but they shrugged it off as well, like they didn't believe me. I'm twenty three now and my whole family knows of my pre-birth memory, I still think they think I'm a little crazy.

Funny thing is my mom said in her sonograms I was suppose to be a girl but it turned out differently obviously.