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Hidalgo/Frank T. Hopkins
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Posted By:
Bob Schroeck
Nov 24, 2004
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I've been a long-time reader of the Museum site and have enjoyed it greatly. Now finally comes my chance to offer something back! (Assuming, of course, the search mechanism for the forums isn't broken and I'm not repeating someone's earlier suggestion...)
In the wake of renting the 2003 Disney/Touchstone movie "Hidalgo" (billed as a "true story"), I wanted to learn more about Frank Hopkins and his achievements. Google led me right away to the following site:
http://www.thelongridersguild.com/hopkins.htm
A thoroughly documented set of pages and links that show that the "true" story of Frank Hopkins is not just a hoax, but apparently so blatant a fabric of falsehoods that some historians are wondering how or why anyone believes it. Especially telling are the Buffalo Bill museum disclaiming any knowledge of Hopkin's alleged "starring roles" in Cody's Wild West Show, and the Arab historians who not only state authoritatively that the so-called "Ocean of Fire" race Hopkins claims to have won never existed, but also point out that any "3000-mile" race in the Middle East would have to have its finish line somewhere in Eastern Europe...
Looks like a perfect topic to cover in the Museum!
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Comments
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The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 | 11:51 AM
You're right. This hasn't been discussed on the message board, though I actually did mention it once, long ago, on my blog:
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/laramie_kid_hoax/
(the search box on the forum page only searches the forum, not the rest of the site as well... maybe I should change that)
But coincidentally I just saw Hidalgo on dvd, and while it's a decent movie, it really was absurd how they kept pointing out that it was based on a true story. From what I understand, Frank Hopkins scarcely even left New York during his life. He was just a guy who made up wild tall tales. |
Bob Schroeck
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 | 12:08 AM
<nod> That, and got enough people invested in them emotionally or financially to keep promoting them after his death. He did apaprently do some good by helping preserve the mustangs, but that appears to be the extent of the truth in the story as Disney tells it.
Anyway, thanks! |
Yvonne
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 | 11:41 PM
Sorry, but Hopkins didn't have anything to do with preserving the mustangs, either. I don't think anyone at the Spanish Mustang Registry (SMR) had heard of him until John Fusco started pestering people for info on the horses. I don't know if he contacted the Spanish Barb Registry or not.
I never thought I'd admit this, but I am (shudder) the granddaughter of one of the founders of the SMR, and I happened to be on the ol' homestead in time to hear my parents complaining about how Fusco didn't listen to a word they said, after he went to the trouble of calling them. |
Bob Schroeck
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 | 08:01 AM
I stand corrected. I suppose I should have guessed that the one apparently true thing in the midst of such a pile of self-serving BS would also be BS... <sigh> |
Lafter54
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 | 05:57 PM
What is this Fusco guy all about?? Why does he twist the stories he gets from others?? I don't think this guy Hopkins did all he said he did. Has anyone obtained documents of his birth to show who his parents are? Is he really Indian or just one big story-teller?? |
Ty Rannell
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 | 12:47 PM
The stories of Hopkins, are true, but greatly exaggerated, my great great grandfather rode with him many times, and kept alot of journals and diaries, talking about him alot. He did win all them races and he did make his way to Arabia. He did do a lot of unpublished work in preserving mustangs, but never felt it neccessary to make a name for himself. Im trying to write a book about it all right now. Just remember, its not that all the stuff said about him isn't true, its just grealty exaggerated. |
H. Elder
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 | 11:18 AM
I just watched the movie "Hidalgo" and loved I'm sure that some of it was exaggrated but, to make a move there has to be some excitment.
Ty Rannell's accounts amd knowledge of his great-grandfathers diaries , does he have these diaries?
It would be interesting to put the hoax stories to rest, I hope he doesw have proof.
Again I loved the movie and the horse was breath taking , beautifuly marked paint.
Good Luck to Ty Rannell and his book I will be looking for it.
H. Elder
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Dr. D
Member
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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 | 11:20 AM
In response to Yvonne above, the Spanish Mustang
Registry certainly did and does know about Frank
T. Hopkins. A letter from founder Robert Brislawn's daughter can be found at http://www.frankhopkins.com under
the "in tribute" section.
In response to Ty Rannell: we all look forward to
the book. You are not the only one who has come
forward with connections to and in support of
Hopkins. At the http://www.frankhopkins.com site there
is a new interview with a former congressman and
horse breeder who knew and rode with Hopkins and
is still alive.
Mr. Rannell: please keep us posted about your
information and work-in-progress at http://www.horseoftheamericas.com |
Becky
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 | 05:31 PM
At the end of the Movie there is a statement that Hidalgo was turned loose in the Kiamichi Mt. of Oklahoma. That he is the sire of some of the horses still running that belonged to the late Gilbert Jones.
However when I visited Bryant years before the movie ever came out, I was shown photos of many of Gilbert's horses. One was a horse named Hidalgo. i ask if that was THE Hidalgo. They said NO that it was just a horse named after him. No one seems to know where the "real" Hidalgo died or who ever owned him after Hopkins.
As for Fusco pushing this so hard. I understand where he gets his fuel. Vickie Ives Spears if the head of the Horse of America's Reg. She purchased it from Fusco a few years ago. This is the same person that was kicked out of the SSMA ( Gilbert Jones South West Spanish Mustang Assn.) when she was the vice prez. She was ask to leave after allowing one of her friends, Gretchen Paterson to register a part Quarter horse. However she tells people it was due to ha horse she had that was to tall and Bryant refused to register it. ( That was also true)
She is the one that is under fire for the Twisty cats. see http://www.messybeast.com for this story. This woman has a long history of twisting tails so to speak with any breed of animal to instant popularity and finance. She could care less about Fusco's career, the horses reputation or the movie, other than the fact it got her press. When you investigate Vickie Spears you will have the truth about Hidalgo and Frank Hopkins.
The registry they now support togather is http://www.horseoftheamericas.com |
poisonflower
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 | 04:43 AM
Yeah, Vickie Ives seems to be into manipulation and exploitation. She claims she doesn't lie, and her friends, who by definition have all drunk the KoolAid, accept this uncritically. But if she doesn't lie, then neither did Nixon. I've seen her lie her head off, and I'm not sure she even knows she's lying. Nor can she accept responsibility for her own behaviors, and apparently she's raised her two daughters to be just like her. (Her husband of about 25 years ended up leaving her after the twisty cat controversy had gone on for a while.)
Personally, I don't care if John Fusco is damaged by association with her, because if he can continue to be around her despite the vile stench created by her willful creation and promotion of these poor disabled cats (as well as her narcissistic personality), then he deserves whatever he gets. |
poisonflower
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 | 04:54 AM
<<<(Her husband of about 25 years ended up leaving her after the twisty cat controversy had gone on for a while.)>>>
There were allegations being made that Vickie Ives and her associates were practicing Satanism, too. |
sapphire
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 04:52 PM
When somebody brought up the twisty cats on the *Hidalgo* form on Internet Movie Database, Vickie Ives popped in there acting unstable and paranoid and claiming that the Long Riders Guild, twisty cat opponents and (I think) the FBI, CIA and Mafia were trying to destroy her. Someone was spamming one of her horse message boards with anti-twisty cat protests and she started ranting and raving and saying she was going to shoot people out on the road in front of her house. I wouldn't come within a mile of her. |
poisonflower
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 | 10:29 PM
I think she's on dope. |
Lafter54
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 | 03:47 PM
This is for Ty R. Make sure you have all your facts straight about Frank Hopkins before your left looking foolish like Fusco. If you don't have documentation to prove these rides, let it be. Frank didn't do all these rides, I can document where he was at the time he said he was riding. He was working in the subway tunnels in NJ. Trust me, I'm family of Franks. |
DBH
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 | 09:43 PM
I don't know anything about Frank Hopkins or this woman you are all shredding (whether she deserves it or not) but I had a relative that was a notorious person back in those days. He married 9 Sioux women who were all stolen from him by the Crow and he ended up married to my great great grandmother who was Red CLouds sister. These are all true facts. He was a big mouth lier but he still did wild and crazy things and was an adventurer and I am sure an interesting man. He was Codys partner in the Wild West Show and also a guide for Brigham Young and others headed west. Cody said JYN was the biggest lier he ever met and my great grandmother, the most honost woman I ever knew, said Cody was a prize winning lier as well. These people were notorious, advertursome, exciting and dishonost -- BUT! the still did a lot of interesting things. Someone did them and I believe they, most likely, were the ones. There's a book out there called 'Fifty Years on the Trail'. It's grampa Johns autobiography and if half of it's true it's a pretty interesting story. I'm this mans great great grandaughter and I've had a life noone would believe but I KNOW it's all true. By comparison I can see that most peoples lives are pretty mundane and boring next to mine. I won't write a biography because people wouldn't believe it anyway.
It's all relative I guess. DBH |
Dark Uncle
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 | 10:51 AM
Hildalgo and Frank T. Hopkins are all frauds. Why should we even deal with such idiots. I refuse to do a timeline of a jackass. |
irish savage
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 | 10:55 AM
well i am Frank T. Hopkins's grandson and i know for a fact that he didnt do all the rides and he did work in the subway. he was a gay prostitute at night and i was his pimp. so all the storys u heard were fake!!!! he loves the cock!!!! |
Frank A Parra
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 | 11:42 PM
Hello: Just writing in that I am real, and I hope that the Horse of Frank Hopkins "Hidalgo" was also real. Thank you, and a great site. |
the carjacker who took Susan Smith'
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 | 04:25 PM
I'm real, too, just as the Ocean of Fire is real. Just as Vickie Ives is a nice person the world just wants to pick on. Just like Nixon wasn't a crook. |
Charles T. Hopkins
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 | 03:51 PM
It is most unfortunate, That people will believe everything they see, Did Frank Ride? Yes, did he have knowledge of Horses?Yes, are fact fabricated? yes. Don't waste time on a movie, or someones claim of fame, Enjoyed the Movie? Yes it was a nice fable, but full of holes, I suppose Frank and the Last samari new each other.
Remeber a movie is like a book it depends if you want to believe what your are reading or you want to enjoy the story.
Is my name really Charles T. Hopkins? |
poisonflower
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 | 03:10 PM
http://pub30.bravenet.com/forum/2524010309/fetch/903081/
John Fusco now says he's been contacted by people who claim to have known Frank Hopkins almost a century ago or whose relatives knew him almost a century ago, who want to back up his claims.
LOL |
Peter Hanbury
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 | 12:45 AM
I'm a little amazed at the passionate messages, and the vituperatioon, that the movie "Hidalgo" appears to have generated.
I recently hired the movie on DVD, and loved it. Yes, it was a bit far-fetched in places, but a great story, well-structured, with interesting characters, entertaining dialogue and a whizz-bang exciting climax.
What more does anyone want in a movie? Because, come on guys and girls, that is what it was -- A MOVIE, not a documentary. There is a difference.
Peter |
Jan
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 | 06:06 AM
I'm courious about the journals or diaries that Ty Randell claims to posess. If authentic, he should publish them in whole, and include photo copies of some of the actual pages, and a group photo showing the entire collection of books.
If Hopkins' claims, at least part of them, can be confirmed through this source then it needs to be presented to researchers.
At this point, I too believe Hopkins was nothing more than self grandising blowhard. If it proves he was not, then he proves to be a very interesting study.
Randell - if you've got the proof, then show it. To hell with this "I'm trying to write a book" business. Remember, you have copyright control over the diaries. Just make sure anything you quote from them has the |
Jimmy Hoffa
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 | 04:10 AM
Just admit this is all fiction. So what if it's fake? Disney could have left out the claims that it was a true story and it would still be a good movie as far as I'm concerned.
To me, it doesn't have to be a true story to inspire. I had no idea this was actually being touted as such but the story intrigued and captivated me all the same. |
From a lone line of tall tails
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 | 09:42 AM
I have heard many a stroy relayed from my families good story tellers. They all have some facts. Some of them fewer truthful facts than others. Some of the tails I have hears have only one truth and lots of none truth. The important (truth) is that the story teller is telling of himself.
My father is one of the best, I always enjoys his tails. Over the years I know whats truth and what is fabrication to enhance the overall enjoyment of the story. Most of his tails are based on an event that is realistic and exciting. When I was about 5yrs. my father and I were stopped on the side of the road and someone asked him about his latest big buck that he killed. My father had told this story five or six times in the last week, so I knew the way it went. In mid story I interupted to say "that wasnt the way he told it last time." after we moved on my father informed me to never let on to anyone if he was fibing. He said never let the truth get in the way of a good story. |
good god
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 | 03:13 AM
But you don't believe your father's tall tales are true, do you? I don't know if Frank Hopkins actually believed his own lies, but Vickie Ives and John Fusco and their friends are trying to sell this story as true. I don't know why Fusco would want to do that; maybe it's his ego. But Vickie Ives seems to be pathologically incapable of admitting that anything she does is wrong, and she's using Fusco just as she's used others. |
ikes2p
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 | 06:31 PM
Im not going to see hidalgo. Im not going to suport this devil-worshiping woman vickie ives or any of her satanist doins like twisty cats and hidalgo. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. |
LOVE A GOOD STORY...
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 11:51 AM
...story telling...fact or fiction? It is my opinion that any story worth hearing, repeating or viewing is "based on fact".
It is also my opinion that based on the examples of this forum this world is quite simply filled with a ridiculous amount of cold, hard, cynical people who are quite possibly just jealous because they don't have a heart left to warm beside the good old fashioned hearth of a 'heart warming tale'.
If fact is what you want then by all means please, please feel free to take in the science channel or check out that same section in your local library but for heaven's sake don't throw away the Bible because you can't prove or disprove it's authorship, authenticity or facts. It's a simple and beautiful story. Period. |
Dr. D
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 | 03:31 PM
See UPDATE on this story at http://www.frankhopkins.com
Click UPDATE at top of splash page. |
(ob)Fusco(ation)
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 | 03:20 PM
***yawn*** |
Frank T Hopkins
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 | 09:35 PM
Hey! I don't know any of you that claim to be my kin.
Sure, I stretched it a bit . . . but not as much as most of you so-called relatives of mine.
I raced, I won, I drank, I loved (ok . . . it wasn't always real love), so what.
Get off your duffs and race around a bit. Your heads will get some much needed air.
F.T.H.
BTW: I had TWO Hidalgos. Both were real good at holding on for the whole run. |
Forrest Roberts Lambert II
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 | 07:08 PM
I just saw the movie, and I read all the sites. All I can say is , I don't give a flying rip whether it is true or not. After all, people, it's only a MOVIE!!!!!!!!!
If you believe Hopkins, you can't be convinced otherwise and if you think he was a liar, you can't be convinced either. So just have your opinions, because you will never change.
GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Name not important
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 | 04:47 PM
I'm writing on behalf of my horse, and this is not a joke. My horse's name is Hidalgo, and he is a paint mustang and direct descendent of the original,and I'm not joking at all.Frank Hopkins WAS NOT A BULLTHROWER, and what's more, I'm willing to pit my Hidalgo against any number of Arabs for a cross country race completeley around the borders of Saudi Arabia, which, I am sure, is more than 3,000 miles. My boy will kick their butts even better than his great great granddaddy did. Now, I don't expect the king of Saudi Arabia or any other Arab to have the guts to respond to this and accept the challenge, but I'll be watching this site just in case they do. |
Non-Aryan Glory
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 | 12:50 PM
Are you sleeping with Vickie Ives? |
Forrest Roberts Lambert II
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 | 08:09 PM
No, I'm not sleeping with Vickie Ives. But I know of 2 women and a football team that claim they are. |
Stace
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 | 11:32 PM
Heh, heh...
It all reminds me of lyrics to a Jimmy Buffet song:
"It's a semi-true story believe it or not,
I made up a few things and there's some I forgot..."
The horses in the move were splendid, and that's a fact. |
wendy onstott
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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 | 09:42 PM
Well, I just saw the movie for the first time. I put it off for as long as I could, Cuz I am a professional horse trainer, and most horse movies just piss me off.
The movie was good fun; I don't know what to think about the Frank Hopkins true story.
But I do personally know the horse that played the mare of the "christian lady", and that is why I finally had to give in and see the film.
He is a purebred Arabian bay gelding named Probant that belonged to a local woman here that showed him western, hunter and show hack for many years. Then some movie guy bought him from her to play in the film. I think she hooked up with the movie guy when she was at the Scottsdale show.
I have trained and shown horses since the early 60's, and have done mostly Arabians.....and in recent years, some mustangs too.
I find it hard to believe that any horse from this country, or anywhere but the desert, could last through any of their races. The environment is savage and the races gruelling; I mean really, if they won't eat figs, dates and camels milk, they will die.
And that is why, whether you like Arabians or not, the breed leads the way in endurance riding to this day...that is what they were bred (and survived) to do.
That I know for a fact, if facts are what you are looking for.
Good luck with research on Frank Hopkins. Whether he was a great endurance horseman or not, I would be hardpressed to believe any American horse could beat a true desert horse......even an American Arabian. They are starting to get pretty woosie now-a-days compared to the desert horses, unless they've been bred specifically for endurance.
And, what the hell is a twisty cat, anyway? |
diamond lillie
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 | 06:36 AM
Twisty cats are deformed, disabled cats Vickie Ives (who was Vickie Speir until her husband walked out on her) was breeding some time back.
http://www.the-cats-meow.ca/twisty1.html
"Twisty cats are caused by a genetic mutation called radial hypoplasia, in which all or no part of the long bone from elbow to wrist, is missing, leaving either no front paws or only vestigial paws. These cats do not move like normal cats; instead, they hop around on their hind legs much like a kangaroo. If they do use all fours, they use their front elbows as a means of movement or balance."
She still can't admit this animal abuse or take responsibility for it, but it got her horse farm a lot of publicity. |
Lisa
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 | 04:54 AM
I think that you should all just relax. So what if the story isnt true, what difference does it make if its fact or fiction, all I know is that the movie was fabulous and it inspired people. So think for a moment, what if those people who were inspired by the movie and did think it was real came to this site and saw you all bashing it? That inspiration that they got from the movie would vanish, I know mine did. Why dont you try and forget about wheather its fact or fiction? Because frankly if you want facts then watch the science channel or somthing. A good movie is a good movie, and isnt it nice to think that perhaps this Frank man was real? Its like Santa clause, a hero of his time, somone for children to look up too. You wouldnt toss a bible away just because you couldnt prove its truth would you? No because its nice to believe that perhaps there were good people in this world that did at one point do great things. Try and be resonable people, Frank Hopkins is a hero, whether he be real or not.. |
witch hazel
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 | 07:41 AM
My hero is Charles Ponzi. I look up to him. |
Chica
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 | 12:13 PM
You guys are just spreading stupid stuff! It is a true story!!! I have researched it and there is really a horse named HIDALGO!!! I looked in buying his granddaughter of his! But she was too much money for me! But for real Frank Hopkins and Hidalgo are real!! |
good god
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 | 01:30 AM
Does your mommy know you're online? |
Sleeps with Dogs
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 | 02:26 PM
It is unfortunate that modern man (latter 20th century & early 21st)is so temporally arrogant, that he believes only in court orders,written contracts, acedemic verification, public record etc. etc. etc. People who don't believe in heros shouldn't go to the movies. - Sleeps with Dogs I'm from Bleeding Kansas p.s. Bob S.,the race wasn't in a straight line. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 | 02:54 PM
There are plenty of heroes out there who actually accomplished the things they claimed to have done. Why should we give equal credit to people who hoax us? By accepting claims that have no value you are in fact undermining the very real acts of heroism that occur every day. To willingly accept a fraud alongside real heroes relegates everything those heroes accomplished to history's back shelf. To accept fantasy over fact is shameful. |
Rolling Thunder
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 | 04:15 PM
Dear Charybdis in Hell..............Please say hello to my stepmother,...........I considered your comments to contain some very intellegent & valid points. However,once I consider the source, it dawned on me that there are no heros in Hell(sorry)...............right on Chica! |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 | 11:44 AM
Right. In other words, you really don't know what you're talking about and will use any excuse to avoid answering my criticism, including something as stupid as my location being listed as Hell. |
who are not as others
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 | 06:08 PM
More publicity for Vickie Ives, more promotion of the Hidalgo myth, from the Seattle Times.
(rolls eyes)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002905213_horserace02.html |
CuChullaine O'Reilly
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 | 10:24 AM
Shame on Santa Fe !
It is indeed ironic that the organizers of the so-called Santa Fe race have sought their inspiration in the misdeeds of the horse-killing Aubry and the lies of the Old West charlatan Frank Hopkins.
I suggest people read this article by the respected equestrian journalist Don Blazer.
http://www.donblazer.com/ahorseofcourse/0301_b_ahorse.html
Don puts it all in a nutshell when he concludes that Aubry was a monster in a saddle who brutally rode his horses to death.
Likewise, to learn how Hopkins pulled off the most extensive equestrian hoax in history please visit this link at The Long Riders' Guild website - http://www.thelongridersguild.com/hopkins.htm
To participate in the ancient art of endurance racing is a fine thing.
But to ride in this lurid spectacle not only enriches the organizers, it unjustly enhances the memory of the two biggest equestrian villains in the history of the Old West.
Shame on Santa Fe if this race occurs !
CuChullaine O'Reilly F.R.G.S.
Founder - The Long Riders' Guild |
DALE ROMANO
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 | 04:26 PM
"BASED ON A TRUE STORY" - THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE IS ** BASED **. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING THIS IS A TRUE STORY. HILDAGO WAS A WONDERFUL MOVIE. |
Lee
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 | 11:51 PM
Yes, that is often said by people who want to justify this business, and is your caps lock key stuck? |
Gallegher
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 | 06:35 PM
It never said..."Based on a true story"..I believe it said..."Based on the life of Frank T. Hopkin's". Who cares anyways? |
Elliott Rosen
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 | 10:37 AM
Who cares "anyways"?
Lots of people care "anyways." About historical fact and not building up people who don't deserve it. |
Jinkies. you people are such losers
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 | 11:37 PM
It was a movie, a good ole Hollywood movie
"BASED on a true story" (duh, the words "based on" should give you a freakin clue that its embellished - you ridiculous turnip eating rubes)
Why don't you people do something useful with your lives, like jump off cliffs with all of your families and friends.
If any one of you had accomplished anything in your meaningless pathetic lives, you wouldn't be ripping apart the memory of a dead man and a MOVIE that is BASED on a true story. Really, I hope you all get hit by trucks. |
Clarence Beeks - definitely not a "Hero"
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 | 12:51 AM
I didnt include your stupid name but your babble really irritated me, because you talk about "facts" and "value" and "real" heroes but you lack of knowledge of the "facts" is annoying,
so here ya go, flabby:
There are plenty of heroes out there who actually accomplished the things they claimed to have done.
(Obviously you aren't one of those heroes, or you wouldn't have such a huge problem with Frank Hopkins - why don't you do some real research about the man, read the articles he wrote about the humane care of horses, his knowledge of natural medicine for horses, if you do the research, you will find that Frank Hopkins never actually claimed he did anything, and was always described as a quiet man, the crazy embellished stories about him were written about other people in an effort to make money)
Why should we give equal credit to people who hoax us?
(Again, please, for the love of Hidalgo, get your fat head out of your ass. Frank Hopkins didn't try hoax us. He never wrote anything about his exploits. There were some crazy stories written by his wife after his death in an effort to make money. Also, There is a difference between a hoax and a movie that is made for the purpose of entertainment, the words "based on" should have given you a clue, but somehow you seem to overlook that)
By accepting claims that have no value you are in fact undermining the very real acts of heroism that occur every day.
(Its cool if you have decided Frank Hopkins' story and the movie Hidalgo have no value to YOU....but if other people enjoyed the movie, and want to believe in a beautiful story despite that there isn't overwhelming evidence to show the story is completely factual, why do you have a problem with that? A lot of people believe in the Bible, but because we can't prove every word of it is true by your ridiculous standards we should consider it a hoax and throw it in the trash? If the movie Hidalgo inspires people, and if someone wants to believe Frank Hopkins was a hero, it undermines absolutely nothing - Who are you to preach and yes you sound very preachy - your opinion means the same as mine - nothing - so get off your high horse)
To willingly accept a fraud alongside real heroes relegates everything those heroes accomplished to history's back shelf.
(Complete Horse-shit, please explain how the "real" heroes - [and who are the "real" heroes anyway - are they a couple of streets down from the "real" killers and in the next county over by the "real" God] are relegated to history's back shelf? And where is history's back shelf anyway? I never heard of history's back shelf....and how many shelves does history have, is there just a front and back or is there a middle? and and do these shelves have upper and lower shelves like a bookcase? Maybe you should have said history's book case, bottom shelf...either way you're pseudo-intelligent babble makes no sense. I think history's shelves are stuck up your big fat ass, and have a feeling we might find your brain up there too. And again, who has committed fraud here? ....no one is filling out a loan application, or trying to get a credit card, someone just made a movie BASED ON a person's life)
To accept fantasy over fact is shameful.
(Again, Is it shameful to believe in Jesus? In many peoples eyes, he was a hero, What about Allah? or Buddha? we have no proof they existed, just stories handed down over thousands of years.
You sound like a frustrated person to me, jealous, judgemental, and ignorant. As Roger Ebert said "Get a life" |
Diamond Jim
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 | 05:37 AM
Allah = God. Allah is Arabic for God.
It figures that someone who would make an ignorant statement like that defends Frank Hopkins the way you do, and also criticizes other people's names.
While it may be true that some find the movie entertaining, we said, that despite what some people insist, it wasn't based on historical fact. Facts are important to people; they're funny like that.
You seem terrified that people insist on fidelity to the truth. I suggest that you're the one who needs to get a life. |
Your pal Clarence
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 | 11:20 PM
Hi Diamond Jim, I find it ironic, that you, my dear, sweet, little friend who sits up till 3:37 am, typing away in the wee hours of the morning while most people sleep or are out actually doing something with other humans, tells me to get a life (ha! irony in its purest form)
This one's for you lonely boy: Rather than being terrified of "The Truth" Im quite fascinated by the concept of truth, and how hard some people will fight, even kill for the "truth" that they believe in.
You might want to consider going to a community college to expand your mind, because I don't think you will get this next statement: Truth is subjective, and history is written by the victorious, the rich and the powerful. History or the "truth" has been written, re-written, erased and written again in every culture since the beginning of time. Have you ever been to Egypt and seen the monuments and walls where one King's name is stricken and replaced with another? Have you ever read the deleted passages and Gospels of the Christian bible? I could go on and on with more examples of "Truths" that were once considered fact but were gone the once the next group decided they wanted to re-write the "Truth". Not to mention that most nomadic peoples (namely American Indian and Bedouin) history is mostly oral history and many truths get lost over time. I know that this might be a hard concept for you. Its ok.
The truth is, that Hidalgo was a movie. No one ever claimed it was a documentary..."BASED on a true story or "BASED on the life of Frank T Hopkins" does not mean that its actual fact. Just keep telling yourself - its only a movie, its only a movie....so you can finally get some sleep.
I think the ignorance is yours, since you just can't wrap your head around that concept. You feel such a need to tear down a movie and a dead man in the name of "defending the truth" when you have no concept of truth yourself.
Why shouldn't I defend Frank Hopkins, he was a human being. There isn't any proof he did anything terrible. The man isn't Hitler, he isn't Idi Amin, come on, why do you and others hate him so much? That is my question. And if you think I am ignorant because I defend people who can't defend themselves (because they are dead)then Im so glad, you thinking that I am ignorant is my absolute bliss.
And yes DJ Jazzy Jim (oooh, pardon my ignorance for making fun of your made up internet name) I know Allah means God in Arabic, (being that my father is Saudi) however most people that believe in Allah don't consider him the "same" God that a Christian believes in, hence the seperative use there, sorry, again that might be difficult for you to understand)
Whoo boy, Im buying the first round of drinks tonight in honor of you Diamond Jimmy Jammy Judgement....please be so kind as to post an address where snail mail can reach you, I would like to send you some money so you can go back to school....the only condition being that you must take film study, as they explain the difference between a documentary and an Action/Adventure movie BASED on someone's life. Love ya. I wish you much success and good fortune in the future, fighting for "THE TRUTH!" |
Diamond Jim
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 | 12:02 PM
You need to stay off the Internet while you're drunk, kid. |
George
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 | 06:57 AM
The movie was good but we'll never know if it was fact or fantasy. If you want a true story that is a bit more contemporary, either read the book, "Rocket Boy" or rent the movie, "October Sky." It's about a kid in the late 50's that is so wowed by Sputnik that he teaches himself how to build real but scaled down rockets. There's a lot more to the story than this but you would never know it if you rent the movie. Suffice it to say this kid does good and eventually becomes a NASA engineer. So if you really want fact, stop wasting your time on FRANK T. |
Charles Ponzi
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 | 05:09 PM
Hey, lay off me! I know what I did on earth, but I'm dead! So give me a break! |
Abella Cabella
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 | 06:24 PM
Mwah! So funny....Angelo told me about you ravers and I just had to check it out. You guys are Sooo funny....Hey, you know what's not a hoax?
That actor that played Hidalgo's dude is HOT. Forgot his name, but that guy is on fire, fire fire, fire.....
Hotter than Hell. Someone get me a fan....
I agree about the truth thing, especially about events so long ago, no one will ever know for sure. Rock it punks! Hope y'all find the truth....pardners...hee hee |
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Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.
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