The Museum of Hoaxes
A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?
Posted By:
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Nov 14, 2004
 I received this chain letter in my mailbox:

Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.

***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)

What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452

Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??
Category: Scams; Replies: 1759

Comments
Page 2 of 30 pages  < 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 | 02:43 PM
Eightieschick70 said:

"Why in the letter does it tell you tp put away a percentage of the money for taxes???"

They do it to try to convince you to get involved with the chain. They want to make it look as if they aren't encouraging you to participate in an illegal scam. After all, if they telling you to pay your taxes, they MUST be legitimate, right?

The sad fact is, the vast majority of people who get into chain letters aren't going to have any newfound money to pay taxes on. Just ask yourself how it would be possible for everyone to come out ahead. Where would the extra money come from?
Lexi
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 | 12:24 PM
I am trying to decide if I should do this or not. I have figured out how much this would cost to do. It would cost $45 to buy the list of names from the mailing list company. $6 Topay to the peaople for adding your name to thier mailing list, and $70 For stamps add in what envelopes would cost and you havespent around $126. In order for this to be illegal some one would have to be jipping you out of your money. As the letter says you would be paying people to add your name to there list. If you ask them to do this. It IS NOT illegal. I would like to know if this has worked for anyone. If Joseph from florida reads this you are number one in my letter. I wouldlike to know how much you have recieved. Thanks
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 | 02:12 PM
Lexi said:

"In order for this to be illegal some one would have to be jipping you out of your money."

Lexi, postal chain letters are illegal. Period. They have been for many years now. You can check this with your local postmaster/mistress.

I know you very much want to believe that it ISN'T illegal so that, if you decide to participate, you aren't breaking the law, but you WILL BE if you do.
gaming
Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 | 04:15 PM
I wouldn't want to open 800,000 letters...lol.
shell
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 | 02:51 PM
The person doing the scaming is the post office.They are the ones getting all the money, 41 cent stamp times 200??? right.. my first reaction is this was sent from the us postal office.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 | 07:42 PM
shell said:

"The person doing the scaming is the post office.They are the ones getting all the money, 41 cent stamp times 200??? right.. my first reaction is this was sent from the us postal office."

Uh, what evidence do you have for that accusation? Chain letters have existed for decades, going back at least as far as the Great Depression. That's LONG before 41 cents postage.
Eightieschick70
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 | 02:32 AM
yes it is long before stamps were 41 cents cranky but.... you know inflation. anyway you look at it your spending money most of us dont have and THIS DOESNT WORK!!!!! ive tryed it. I diddnt get one response, even though I only sent out half of the letters. I still would have gotton something, IF IT WORKED. whos to say that people would be honest and send a dollar to the ones on the list? what is keeping people from just getting the stamps and doing it without sending the 5 people a dollar? The post office if benifitting greatly from chain mail. (almost makes me wonder if it isnt a government conspiasy.) you know the rich are always looking for ways to scam money off of the poor. thats how a majority of them become rich in the first place. have a great day, and dont allow anyone to scam you please.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 | 03:12 PM
Eightieschick 70 said:

"I diddnt get one response, even though I only sent out half of the letters. I still would have gotton something, IF IT WORKED."

You didn't get a response because it's a SCAM. It isn't designed for YOU to make money; it's designed for the person or persons who started the chain to make money.

The post office is NOT behind chain letters. If you ask your local postmaster/postmistress, they'll tell you that chain letters are ILLEGAL. They have been since at least the 1930's when they were a national fad.

As with a lot of get-rich-quick scams, chain letters become popular at times of financial hardship. Chain letters are really just a mail-based form of a pyramid scheme. I fully expect to see non-mail pyramid schemes making a comeback any time now. Keep your eyes open for those.
Eightieschick70
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 | 11:24 AM
Crankey, did you read the rest of my posting? thats exactly what I just said!!!!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 | 02:58 PM
Well, you said that you thought the post office might be behind chain letters and I was refuting that notion.

While I agree with you that it often seems as if the rich profit off the poor, I really doubt that it's rich people who run chain letters, either.

Mostly it's just some individual who thinks they've reinvented the wheel, so to speak, and figures a chain letter is a way to make some fast and easy money.
James
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 12:17 PM
It worked for me. I didn't make $800,000.00, but i made a little over half at $413,610.00! Don't knock it until you try it-- If you follow the instructions it will work. I thought it was a scam, but I decided the total investment of $120.00 was worth a shot. I have decided to re-enroll into college and pursue my dreams instead of working 9-5 and barely surviving each month. I will do this again. My father, who is a current politician and former attorney, verified the legality of the program. He stated it was not illegal unless you manipulate the letter and ask for money--because remember you are still selling something, compiling a mailing list!
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 02:23 PM
Wow, what a completely bogus comment. Let's see if we can trace your IP and report you for admitting to mail fraud. 😉
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 | 03:16 PM
James said:

"My father, who is a current politician and former attorney, verified the legality of the program. He stated it was not illegal unless you manipulate the letter and ask for money--because remember you are still selling something, compiling a mailing list!"

Hey, James, tell your "father" that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

That "you're selling something" excuse has been used for decades to defend chain letters. Sorry, that does NOT get you off the hook. As I've said repeatedly, all a person has to do is check with their postmaster.

If it was legal as you say, why wouldn't everyone be doing it? Tell your "father" that he's full of shit.
Tina
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 | 03:22 PM
James, Im not knocking anything that I havent tryed. Mabey you just got lucky. I diddnt get one response, All I managed to achieve is wastin time and money that I dont have in the first place.
Jadedmiller
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 | 02:06 PM
Everyone is cracking me up on here! Charybdis
in Hell, who are you to trace these poor people?
Why would you want someone to get arrested, just for trying to get ahead in life? Leave these people alone!It looks as if NOONE really knows if this specific chain letter is illegal. I, myself have received this letter as well. I have no desire to turn these people into the authorities just for trying to make some money. No, I haven't yet joined in, but I may. There are SO MANY of these in circulation, don't you think that maybe one of the authorities may have received one, and arrested the bad guys if it was soooo illegal? Jeez, I'd be more worried about predators than people mailing out a stupid letter!
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 09:07 AM
Well Jadedmiller, since it was obviously a bogus comment aimed at inflaming us I simply replied with a sarcastic retort. Evidently it went over your head.

As for poor people trying to get ahead in life, you're right - I should leave them alone. In fact, the next time I see someone breaking into a house I won't bother calling the police. After all, I don't <i>know</i> that they're breaking the law, and they're probably just trying to make some money anyway.

Face it, chain letters asking for money or gifts are illegal. It's incredibly easy to verify this with your local postmaster if you're confused by the concept. The fact that you don't see anything wrong with it doesn't alter the law one bit.

As I said earlier, the odds of you going to jail are very small. There are far too many people forwarding them for the post office to track them down and prosecute them all. It does happen, but probably not to you. But just because the odds favor you in an illegal activity doesn't make it right, either morally or legally. But I guess that doesn't bother you.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 | 03:23 PM
Jadedmiller said:

"It looks as if NOONE really knows if this specific chain letter is illegal."

Chain letters are illegal. Period. They have been since at least the 1930's when they were a huge fad (because of the Great Depression and people's desperation), causing the post office to have to hire extra people to handle the extra load. I'll repeat that since people keep coming to this thread and saying that they aren't sure: CHAIN LETTERS ARE ILLEGAL. PERIOD.

"There are SO MANY of these in circulation, don't you think that maybe one of the authorities may have received one, and arrested the bad guys if it was soooo illegal?"

Do you know for a fact that the authorities aren't investigating this at this very moment? Or that no one has been prosecuted recently for being involved in a chain letter?

"Jeez, I'd be more worried about predators than people mailing out a stupid letter!"

Your "logic" here is irrational. The post office wouldn't typically be the organization involved in dealing with predators. The one has little to do with the other. What the post office does or doesn't choose to prosecute would not impact other law enforcement organizations that might be involved in catching predators.
James
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 11:23 AM
CrankyMediaGuy: I understand that you are a very angry individual, but come on is using curse words needed? I feel sorry for you, but I will pray for you still.

Anyways, I was a skeptic just like everyone else, but It worked for me. I have been discussing this issue with my father for a few weeks now and I still feel like I made the right decision.
Tina
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 12:22 PM
Like I said Before James, Im really glad that it worked for you but, you just got really lucky. I did try it and not one response. whos to say that these people , even the ones that try it are even going to send a dollar to the people on the list. The world just isnt that honest. you took a gamble and you came out ahead. I certinly wouldnt recomend this for someone who really has no money to begin with. It could be like throwing away 135 dollars to someone with very little money, that could pay a utilaty bill or a weeks worth of groceries or something. good luck to you and I hope this continues to work for you. I just know that it diddnt work for me or a majority of the people here who have tryed it.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 03:24 PM
James said:

"CrankyMediaGuy: I understand that you are a very angry individual, but come on is using curse words needed? I feel sorry for you, but I will pray for you still."

Oh, is THAT what you "understand?" Funny, I'm not angry about anything that I can see.

Since you're into "understanding," why do you seem to have so much trouble understanding the simple fact that chain letters are ILLEGAL and have been for decades?

"Anyways, I was a skeptic just like everyone else, but It worked for me. I have been discussing this issue with my father for a few weeks now and I still feel like I made the right decision."

Did you father tell you that it's OK to break the law? You know, seeing as how he's a "current politician and former attorney" and all.

By the way, WHY is he a "former attorney?" Was he disbarred? Seeing as how he doesn't seem to know that chain letters are illegal (or is willing to advise his son to ignore the law), I wouldn't be surprised.

Either way, I stand by my "full of shit" comment.

Don't bother to pray for me. Your faith is no more sincere than your willful ignorance of the law.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 04:15 PM
Anyways, I was a skeptic just like everyone else, but It worked for me.


Robbing banks works for some people. Does that make it acceptable behaviour?
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 06:31 PM
Hey, James, here's something to show your father, you know, the former attorney and current politician.:

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/chainlet.htm

Pay particular attention to the third paragraph.
jiji66
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 | 11:46 PM
I just need to say for now, I got my first response, in 5 days. I followed the instructions to the tee. I will let everybody know in 3 months. Congrats to James, I hope I have the same response. I mailed out May 29, first response June 6. By the way I will wait at least 3 months and 10 percent will go to my church.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 02:31 AM
jiji66 said:

"By the way I will wait at least 3 months and 10 percent will go to my church."

So, if you get any profit from your participation in an ILLEGAL CHAIN LETTER, you will donate 10% of it to your church? That makes sense to you?

Are you attempting to bribe God to look the other way regarding your criminal activities?

Please DO NOT try to tell me that you aren't sure that chain letters are illegal. I've given you a link to the page on the U.S. Post Office's website which TELLS you that they're illegal.

Here it is again, in case you missed it:

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/chainlet.htm

From this point on, you no longer have the excuse that you aren't sure of the legality of chain letters.

I guess you'll just have to try to talk yourself into the notion that your God doesn't condemn criminal activity if you cut Him in.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 09:38 AM
I've always found it far easier to just rummage through women's purses while at work. They never lock their drawers so it's quite easy to do when they wander off to the restroom or smoke break.

And it's not illegal because I don't want it to be illegal.

🙄
Tina
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 11:24 AM
well I for one dont think that god and the government have anything to do with eachouther, so I really dont see how its bribing god if you break the governments laws, They are all crooks anyway, doin whatever they can to leagaly take money from the little working class guy. Now I really dont see how god would approve of that at all. Just thought Ild mention it since the subject came up. I still dont think that this works however, and Ild hate to see anyone waste their hard earned money, that they dont have to begin with. Yes jiji please let us know how you do. Im jusy wondering now if I diddnt get a bad mailing list or something.
Charybdis
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 11:41 AM
I'm not trying to be a party pooper, I'm just giving a heads up before this starts turning nasty. This forum will not turn into a 'how-to' discussion on postal chain letters.

<b>Any instructions or helpful hints on committing mail fraud or other illegal acts will be deleted.</b>

This means no swapping of mailing lists and no posting of websites promoting postal chain letters, or the like.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 | 03:15 PM
Tina said:

"well I for one dont think that god and the government have anything to do with eachouther, so I really dont see how its bribing god if you break the governments laws,"

Hmm, let's see. How about, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods"?

Or, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's."

Since any profit you might derive from a chain letter comes from some poor sucker who also wanted to make money, you are stealing from them, hence the quote from the Ten Commandments.

The second quote refers to the fact that you aren't planning on paying tax on your windfall.

There are other passages in Scripture which say that you should obey the law.

I am operating on the premise that you are a Christian, of course.

Honestly, you don't see anything wrong with stealing and giving part of the money to your church? That doesn't strike you as the tiniest bit hypocritical?

If not, why not try this: if and when you get any money from the illegal chain letter, tell your minister where your intended donation came from. Make sure to tell him that it was illegal. See what he has to say about it.

Would you be using the same rationalization if a drug dealer donated some of his money to his church? If not, why not? After all, anti-drug laws are just "government laws," right?
neice2
Member
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 | 05:40 AM
You know what I think is so darn funny? I have never even been on this site before, and reading through here I see that Cranky really does have an anger problem. Why else has he been arguing and trying to convince everyone of his opinion since APRIL 13,2005? Over two years! Are you afraid people may have the same mailing list as you? It might dig into your pocket? Or is it that you are sooooo Cranky that you are lonely and have nothing better to do?

In your last post, you stated, "Since any profit you might derive from a chain letter comes from some poor sucker who also wanted to make money, you are stealing from them, hence the quote from the Ten Commandments"

I would like to know where you got your definition of stealing. Funny, I thought that was when you TOOK something from someone with out permission. Not when they gave it to you. Seems to me the person on the other end is licking the stamp with no one holding a gun to their head! Maybe you are referring to YOU being the poor sucker who also wanted to make money. Besides the chain letters have changed since you 1st were involved in them in 1912. Isn't that the year you said??? Ha!

If you actually read the web site that took you over 2 years to post (2 days in a row), you will see that it says not all chain letters are illegal. Considering that the newer ones aren't just asking for money and promising that the people following you will become rich, I would say that your opinion is null and void.

Feel free to try to turn me in to the authorities. Good luck! I haven't done a chain letter since Jr high!

This look familiar to you Cranky?

"By registering at this site you agree not to post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or that violate any laws. We will permanently ban all users who do so."

You agreed to that statement when you signed up for this site. Well, I believe that you just broke the laws of this site. Shame Shame!!!

And, I know where your little brain is headed... Yes, It does say, "or that violate any laws". Have you read all the chain letters that these people have sent or received? Have you written the laws yourself? NO!?! Well, I'm not convinced that you know what the heck you are talking about!

You don't need to quote me for the next 2+ years and comment on my rationalization. This really can't be life for you. Why don't you find something more useful of your time. Like maybe running for President. You right up there!

Oh, yeah! Go ahead and try to have me kicked off the site while you are at it. I just signed up to say all this to you! Good luck convincing!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 | 02:48 AM
neice 2 said:

"You know what I think is so darn funny? I have never even been on this site before, and reading through here I see that Cranky really does have an anger problem. Why else has he been arguing and trying to convince everyone of his opinion since APRIL 13,2005? Over two years! Are you afraid people may have the same mailing list as you? It might dig into your pocket? Or is it that you are sooooo Cranky that you are lonely and have nothing better to do?"

Ah, it's the old "If you tell someone something they don't want to hear, you must be angry, lonely or have a vested interest in the thing you're talking about" argument. Sorry to disappoint you, but none of those are correct. Got any OTHER ad hominem attacks?

"In your last post, you stated, "Since any profit you might derive from a chain letter comes from some poor sucker who also wanted to make money, you are stealing from them, hence the quote from the Ten Commandments"

"I would like to know where you got your definition of stealing. Funny, I thought that was when you TOOK something from someone with out permission. Not when they gave it to you."

Everyone who participates in a chain letter which purports to reward them with money is in it because they think they're going to come out ahead. The few people who make money with chain letters get it from other participants who LOSE what they put into the system. It's very simple math, really; a chain letter is the same as a pyramid scheme. This isn't "opinion," it's FACT.


"Maybe you are referring to YOU being the poor sucker who also wanted to make money."

I refer you to my first comment above. Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

"Besides the chain letters have changed since you 1st were involved in them in 1912. Isn't that the year you said??? Ha!"

Uh, where did I ever mention the year 1912 in any context in this thread? Even if I HAD, the simple arithmetic behind the inability of chain letters to make money for the participants hasn't changed. They don't work because they CAN'T work.

"If you actually read the web site that took you over 2 years to post (2 days in a row), you will see that it says not all chain letters are illegal. Considering that the newer ones aren't just asking for money and promising that the people following you will become rich, I would say that your opinion is null and void."

Yes, you are correct that a chain letter which does not require the participant to send money or something of value is NOT illegal. Where in this thread have you seen anyone talk about partipating in one of those, however?

Putting aside the legality of some alleged chain letter which doesn't involve sending money, the idea that participating in a chain which promises to make its participants rich is simple-minded superstition. While you would be free legally to take part in it, why would you want to put your stupidity on display like that?

[more]
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 | 02:50 AM
[continued]

"Feel free to try to turn me in to the authorities. Good luck! I haven't done a chain letter since Jr high!"

Ooh, very brave of an anonymous person to challenge me like that! Besides, when did I threaten to turn anyone in to anyone? All I've ever said is that a person involved in a chain letter COULD get into trouble if caught. That's a statement of fact.

"This look familiar to you Cranky?

"By registering at this site you agree not to post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or that violate any laws. We will permanently ban all users who do so."

"You agreed to that statement when you signed up for this site. Well, I believe that you just broke the laws of this site. Shame Shame!!!"

I did? Which "law(s) of this site" have I violated? Please be specific, using examples of my "violation(s)."

"And, I know where your little brain is headed... Yes, It does say, "or that violate any laws". Have you read all the chain letters that these people have sent or received? Have you written the laws yourself? NO!?! Well, I'm not convinced that you know what the heck you are talking about!"

I LOVE how you feel you can read my mind. Do you do card tricks, too?

"You don't need to quote me for the next 2+ years and comment on my rationalization."

I'm happy to see that you realize you are engaging in rationalization. That shows progress.

"This really can't be life for you. Why don't you find something more useful of your time. Like maybe running for President. You right up there!"

Uh, your grammar fell apart there suddenly. What happened? Are there two of you, one more literate than the other?

"Oh, yeah! Go ahead and try to have me kicked off the site while you are at it. I just signed up to say all this to you! Good luck convincing!"

More of the strangely deteriorating grammar. Trust me, I wouldn't dream of trying to get you kicked off this site. It hadn't even occurred to me. Frankly, I don't care if you're here or not. Since you're running off, though, I guess you'll never see this. Sign up, take a cheap shot and run off--quite the strategy you have there.

To be honest, your defense of the indefensible makes me wonder if YOU have the vested interest in chain letters as a money making operation you irrationally ascribe to me.
Charybdis
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 | 09:19 AM
Wow Cranky, you sure know how to draw out the loonies. At least this one was mostly articulate, if a bit obsessive about defending stupidy in the face of rational thought.

I just get the people who attack me because of my given location. 🙄
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 | 03:22 PM
charybdis said:

"Wow Cranky, you sure know how to draw out the loonies. At least this one was mostly articulate, if a bit obsessive about defending stupidy in the face of rational thought."

Yeah, I do have that "gift," don't I? Funny, it was the same way back when I was a wacky morning drive radio DJ and talk show host. I must give off a scent or something that attracts them.
jiji66
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 | 08:57 PM
I will be filing all my responses. I will be paying taxes on all income derived from this business,(not like some officials, gov. etc).
I don't care if it is 50,000 or 5.00 dollars it will be reported. Has everybody on this site ever cheated on their taxes?
jiji66
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 | 09:09 PM
I meant has anybody ever cheated on their taxes?
The letter above is not the same letter I received.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 | 02:05 AM
jiji66 said:

"I will be filing all my responses. I will be paying taxes on all income derived from this business,(not like some officials, gov. etc).

You're in kind of a Catch 22. If you report your income from a chain letter, you're admitting to a crime and can be prosecuted as a result.

If, on the other hand, you DON'T pay tax on your illegal income, that, too, is a crime.

Good luck.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 | 09:20 AM
But if he pays taxes on his illegal gains then that makes the crime go away. Bank robbers do it all the time, I hear.

That was Al Copone's downfall, you know. 😉
Tina
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 | 01:02 PM
boy are you guys repetitive or what?
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 | 07:45 PM
Tina, which "guys" do you make reference to and in what way are they repetitive?
ice
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 | 05:05 PM
u guys r really irrate over this "chain letter" thing! there r much more serious issues n the world to go back & forth about 4 months @ a time ... of course i am responding 😝

participating in that "chain letter" may be unethical @ best, but certainly it's not as much of an issue as the "amnesty bill", soldiers & civilians dying n iraq, the mysterious "weapons of mass destruction" or any real issues. i would place it up there with going 10 mph over the speed limit or driving after a drink or 2 after work ... many do it occassionally (or frequently), but who really cares (that oughta get u up n arms).

concerning the post office originating the program, it's probably the lead brokers who get paid regardless. concerning response to the letter & consequenting profitability, it's all about the list & if they r actual responders are not. if ur targeting the correct target market, they will respond @ atleast 3% which is normal 4 direct marketing.

"nothing good ever came easy", "nothing ventured nothing gained", "risk takers succeed" ... & of course on the opposite side, "stupid is as stupid does" 😊
soundstoodtome
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 | 08:38 AM
I dont get it i have the letter also. says its backed by oprah, 20/20, abc's ivestigation team blah blah balh... then it gives 6 steps
(1. immediately send $1.00 to each of the six names on the mailing list below. Include with your dollar a request to be pput on ther mailing list. IT IS THIS CRITICAL STEP THAT MAKES THE PROGRAM LEGAL)

THEN BUY A LIST OF NAMES FROM DATA LINE AND REMOVE THE TOP NAME AD YOUR OWN DROP THE BOTTOM NAME AND SEND OUT 200 COPYS OF THE LETTER WITH THE SIX NAMES TO 200 PEOPLE AND THATS HOW IT GETS GOING.

so the question is this,arent you advertising a false service? if these 6 people are just like me they are getting my dollar and throwing my request for a mailing list out because they dont have a mailing list. so now if i mail all this out arent i saying give me a dollar but make sure you ask to be put on my mailing list that doesnt exist (just to make it legal)

it is all confusing

also whats stoping me from skiping step one saving the 6 bucks buying the name list sending the letter out anyway and hoping that some other idiots send me a buck for no reason?
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 | 09:18 AM
You've just stumbled on why those things don't work. Anyone greedy enough to try it is probably greedy enough to cheat.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 | 03:20 PM
All those elements are included to make the thing seem "legit," soundstoodtome.

The thing about "buying a service" is included because a lot of people have heard that chain letters are illegal; putting that part in is intended to make them think that these people have found a loophole that makes THIS chain letter legal. They haven't and it doesn't.
not so cranky a guy
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 | 03:34 PM
i am proud to live in a country that you have the choice to go into business for your self and the gov will assist all they can. sending this letter is the start of a mailorder business creating mailing lists. they can then be sod or sent out to the people WHO HAVE ASKED TO BE ADDED to your mailing list keep exact records and pay your taxes. this is the american dream to be self employed and live the good life
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 | 01:58 AM
Nice try, not so cranky. Sorry, you can spin this thing all you want, but as we pointed out by DIRECTING YOU TO THE EXACT PART OF THE POSTAL SERVICE'S WEB SITE, chain letters asking for money are ILLEGAL. Period. End of story.

Chain letters are "self-employment" in the same way as bank robbery.

Please do NOT keep posting falsehoods.
jill
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 | 02:00 PM
I have to write to this site. I have received this letter twice. First time I threw it out, then I saw the 20/20 investigation and remember saying to myself that if I ever get it again I will try it. Well I received it again because I am on a list for opportunity seekers. My name and address was taken from a website I applied to. Anyway I tryed it. So far it has been 9 days and I just received my first response. It was only a "undeliverable, no known address" from one of my letters. I will give it another week or so to see if I get any responses. Please let me know of other people who have done the program and their outcome. I am not interested in hearing from some of you who just want to knock this system. Please take your negativity to another site. We are not looking for an argument here, just sharing stories for the better.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 | 03:09 PM
Jill, sorry if you don't like this fact, but chain letters involving money are ILLEGAL.

That isn't "negativity," it's a FACT.

Please do NOT use this site to attempt to get others to break the law.
DOuting Thomas
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 | 03:54 PM
Frankly I don't believe any of the people who wrote they made money. They've got their letters out there and they're hoping.

Of course, it's a chain letter, it's illegal, the supposed request for a list does not magically turn it into legal activity; indeed, it just facilitates the fraud with more suckers. But what's also interesting is no one has commented on the falsehood at the very beginning purporting to give Oprah Winfrey and ABC's 20/20 stamp of approval.
jill
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 | 09:26 PM
Well I guess you're right. It's been 3 weeks and all that I received back were 4 undeliverable envelopes. I really wanted to do this as research but was hoping it would work. Anyway it doesn't so everyone should just save their money.
fiona
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 | 11:32 PM
I just want to say that Cranky needs to calm down. I think most of the people, including me, are doing research before investing capitol in something they are unsure of. Honestly, I don't appreciate having to filter through every other comment looking for bona fide information. I got real tired of reading the same thing over and over from the same Cranky guy.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 | 01:51 AM
Fiona said:

"I just want to say that Cranky needs to calm down. I think most of the people, including me, are doing research before investing capitol in something they are unsure of."

If you're doing any REAL "research" into chain letters, then you'd already know that they are illegal. If you notice, I usually only respond when yet another person tries to claim they are NOT illegal. If people would stop making that false claim, I would stop pointing out for the umpteenth time that it isn't true.

"Honestly, I don't appreciate having to filter through every other comment looking for bona fide information."

What "bona fide" information are you seeking? Anyone who tells you that chain letters are LEGAL is lying to you and certainly NOT "bona fide."

It seems to me that what you are seeking is confirmation of your false beliefs concerning the legality of chain letters.
Tami:Dream Catcher
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 | 10:37 AM
I got that letter a few weeks ago and I'm going to do it. I also have a small business and I could use more people on my mailing list. I don't think it's illegal...it's asking to be placed on a mailing list and yes we may or may not make money. People spend thousands on a business idea and if it fails, that's life. Some of us are more fortunate than others. I'd like to know if 'Cranky' or the guy in 'hell' are attorneys or just 'nay sayers'? It bothers me when someone makes an absolute comment as fact. This is not
your typical chain letter. BTW, I also checked out that USPS site and was not convinced. I was married to and dated a few lawyers. One thing I know is that the law is sometimes ambiguous. That's why lawyers make the big bucks.

It just may work for me in spite of what others say. BTW, I haven't told friends because I don't want any negative responses. Keep a positive attitude and it may work. Anybody that's ever really made it in life failed quite a few times, in many ventures, before they succeeded.

I am a sales person and have done many mailings for my company. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. I do believe this, if I give up, I lose. Also, if people have a dream and they give up because a couple naysayers pee on their dream, then they also lose.

Tami
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 | 03:31 PM
Tami said:

"I got that letter a few weeks ago and I'm going to do it."

In that case, you WILL be breaking the law. I realize you want to tell yourself you're not a criminal, but chain letters that involve money ARE illegal and if you participate in one, you ARE breaking the law.

As I've said before, the odds of you getting caught are low, but if you ARE, you should know that the postal authorities have a VERY high rate of conviction. After all, there is physical evidence in the form of the letters working against you.

"I also have a small business and I could use more people on my mailing list."

I could use more money, so I guess I'll just rob a bank. It's FUN to rationalize, isn't it?

"I don't think it's illegal...it's asking to be placed on a mailing list and yes we may or may not make money."

EVERY chain letter I've ever seen uses some variation of the "THIS chain is legal because you're asking to be placed on a list" story. That changes nothing legally.

"BTW, I also checked out that USPS site and was not convinced."

Of what? That the U.S. Postal Service knows what is legal and illegal concerning the mail?

"I was married to and dated a few lawyers. One thing I know is that the law is sometimes ambiguous. That's why lawyers make the big bucks."

Hey, maybe you should act as your own attorney with a legal mind like that.

"It just may work for me in spite of what others say. BTW, I haven't told friends because I don't want any negative responses. Keep a positive attitude and it may work."

Ah, NOW we get why you want to be involved in this nonsense. You think that your magical "positive attitude" will overcome the mathematics that PROVE that chain letters and Ponzi schemes CANNOT work. Nobody's going to tell Tami that everyone can't profit in a closed system. If you just believe, arithmetic will be proven wrong. 2+2 CAN equal 5 if you just BELIEVE.

Yes, Tami, I am a "naysayer" for pointing out what should be painfully obvious to any intelligent person who takes two seconds to think about the math involved in a chain letter.

Prediction: you'll go ahead and throw good money away on this stupid chain; then, when it doesn't work, you'll rationalize that you just didn't believe strongly enough. It'll never occur to you that you put your faith in what amounts to science fiction.
Tami:Dream Catcher
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 | 05:06 PM
Cranky,

You never said whether you are a lawyer or not.

Cranky said...

"I could use more money, so I guess I'll just rob a bank. It's FUN to rationalize, isn't it?"

Now, when you use such an analogy, then I know you aren't a lawyer. Lawyers don't think in absolutes, either.

"EVERY chain letter I've ever seen uses some variation of the "THIS chain is legal because you're asking to be placed on a list" story. That changes nothing legally."

Cranky, you may be right. Give me some court files documenting cases where people have been prosecuted or arrested, dates, jurisdictions,depositions, if any, to prove your point. Saying the same thing over and over..."It's illegal cuz, I say so.", doesn't make it so.

"Hey, maybe you should act as your own attorney with a legal mind like that."

Well, whatever kind of mind I have, I'm not rude and I don't get angry because people don't agree with me.

"Prediction: you'll go ahead and throw good money away on this stupid chain; then, when it doesn't work, you'll rationalize that you just didn't believe strongly enough. It'll never occur to you that you put your faith in what amounts to science fiction."

Why do I sense some anger, Dude? It's not your business. I've been wrong and lost out before. I've also won. That's life.

The good thing is I don't need nor want your approval. I'm sorry you're having a 'hissy fit' about this, but, do you have to resort to insulting people?

What ever happened to you to make you so uptight and negative?

Relax, already.

Tami
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 01:39 AM
Tami said:

"Cranky,

You never said whether you are a lawyer or not."

Nope. I DO know how to read, however and the postal service website says rather clearly that chain letters involving money are ILLEGAL. Do I need to have gone to law school to see that?

You are not a lawyer, either, yet you say that you think that THIS chain letter IS legal. Would you please enlighten us all as to why you believe so, Counselor?


"'I could use more money, so I guess I'll just rob a bank. It's FUN to rationalize, isn't it?'"

"Now, when you use such an analogy, then I know you aren't a lawyer. Lawyers don't think in absolutes, either."

If you can find me a lawyer who says that it's EVER legal to ROB A BANK, then your "argument" will make sense.

"Cranky, you may be right. Give me some court files documenting cases where people have been prosecuted or arrested, dates, jurisdictions,depositions, if any, to prove your point. Saying the same thing over and over..."It's illegal cuz, I say so.", doesn't make it so."

Here's an even better idea. Since you belive that this particular chain letter is LEGAL and you intend to participate in it, why don't YOU find a lawyer who will back that opinion up? Tell us who it is and why he or she says that this chain letter (or ANY chain letter involving the exchange of money) is legal.

You're asking me to prove a negative. Since YOU are making the assertion that this particular chain letter is LEGAL, let's see you prove that assertion.

As for MY evidence, there are these things called "libraries." They contain books; some of those books are about scams, frauds, etc. Any decent book on that subject is likely to contain a chapter or more about chain letters and their history. You might want to read up on this subject. I have, which is part of why I can tell you with assurance that, in the U.S., chain letters involving money ARE ILLEGAL.

"Why do I sense some anger, Dude? It's not your business. I've been wrong and lost out before. I've also won. That's life.

"The good thing is I don't need nor want your approval. I'm sorry you're having a 'hissy fit' about this, but, do you have to resort to insulting people?

"What ever happened to you to make you so uptight and negative?"

Well, let's see. You're posting incorrect information on this website about an illegal activity. There is at least the possibility that other people may follow your lead and also engage in this ILLEGAL activity.

They, like, you, will lose their money if they do, plus they WILL be breaking the law. It's VERY irresponsible of you to make false claims about the legality of chain letters in a public forum. Why did you think you could advocate breaking the law and NOT have someone respond negatively to it?

If this hasn't occurred to you, chain letters are illegal because THEY DON'T WORK. They are a mathematically-impossible scam that benefit only the person who starts one.

I notice that you avoided what I said about the impossible math which would be required to make everyone involved in a chain letter come out ahead. As I said, like a lot of people, you have the irrational notion that it WILL work simply because you BELIEVE it will, despite the fact that it CANNOT work mathematicaly.

By the way, IF you actually made money from this chain letter (which you won't), are you planning on paying taxes on that money? Or do you BELIEVE that it isn't subject to taxation?

"It's not your business."

This is my FAVORITE part. I find it hilarious when someone posts something about illegal activity in a public forum and then acts surprised when someone responds to them.
Tami:Dream Catcher
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 10:47 AM
Since you can not cite evidence to support you adamant statement about it's illegality, it's obvious you are just giving your opinion with no facts. That's fine. We all have opinions. However, you also like to exaggerate using irrelevant analogies and false hypotheses to make your point. I can't help but notice you are very adamant which leads one to believe that you have some evidence or are an attorney. You don't say you 'think' they are illegal. You speak as if you know from some source.

It seems as if you think most people are idiots. That we all need someone such as yourself to care for us or think for us. It's people like you who want the gov't to regulate our lives, even what vitamins we can take, force us to use drugs instead of alternatives, take our choices away because we're all idiots. Meanwhile big business, pharmaceutical companies, make big money, pay little taxes. That's okay, legal. It's interesting how we all believe and trust big business or wealthy sport guys, but think a letter asking to send $1 or $5 is ooohh so wrong and illegal. It's okay for us to be guinea pigs for big drug companies with their disclaimers "side effects may kill you or make you blind." It's okay to give 3 month old babies Nexxium because he's lactose intolerant rather than recommend soy milk. I'm sure that would suit you because it's legal and a big fat wealthy pharmaceutical company makes them and the FDA says it's okay. People like you would take away opportunities for the small guy to make money. I really love it when people like you do this under the guise of 'protecting the people'.

Well I think it should be illegal for a doctor's first course of action to be giving a 3 month old baby a new drug rather than recommend soy milk. I also think it should be illegal for an insurance company to raise your rates or drop you when you file a claim, especially since the rate you pay is based on anticipated claims. I also think it should be our decision whether we participate in gambling, alternatives and even chain letters. I think many things that are illegal should be our decision.

I don't want you or gov't as my 'daddy' and I am as a child. Yes, make us aware but don't hinder what we decide to do with my money. At the same time don't force me spend money buy your big company drugs, i.e., medication for my child that I may not want, vaccines for me or my pets. Don't use media scare tactics to induce public opinion in favor of big business and pharmaceutical companies.

This is not a chain letter any more than mass mailings are chain letters. However, if I find out it is illegal and it is a chain letter, you will be the first to know.

You know, Cranky, I like having another opinion. I'm not angry because you disagree with me. You are the one that's angry and cranky. It's okay to disagree.

Oh, yes I will and do pay taxes, because I think we all should pay taxes. It's another way of giving back. I also think the wealthy and big business should pay a more fair share of taxes.

This is a great country, even with it's flaws. America, land of the free, home of the brave.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 03:31 PM
Tami said:

"Since you can not cite evidence to support you adamant statement about it's illegality, it's obvious you are just giving your opinion with no facts."

Tami, what part of "the Postal Service says they're illegal" do you not understand?

"I can't help but notice you are very adamant which leads one to believe that you have some evidence or are an attorney. You don't say you 'think' they are illegal. You speak as if you know from some source."

I'll repeat: Tami, what part of "the Postal Service says they're illegal" do you not understand?

"Well I think it should be illegal for a doctor's first course of action to be giving a 3 month old baby a new drug rather than recommend soy milk. [and so on ad infinitum]"

So, your logic is that since OTHER things are wrong in the world, what's one more thing? Two--or three--or a thousand wrongs DO make a right. Fascinating.

"I don't want you or gov't as my 'daddy' and I am as a child. Yes, make us aware but don't hinder what we decide to do with my money. At the same time don't force me spend money buy your big company drugs, i.e., medication for my child that I may not want, vaccines for me or my pets. Don't use media scare tactics to induce public opinion in favor of big business and pharmaceutical companies."

That's right, Tami. I personally make the bad drugs on the market and that's why I have been telling you that chain letters are illegal. Wow, that's some thinking process you have there.

"This is not a chain letter any more than mass mailings are chain letters. However, if I find out it is illegal and it is a chain letter, you will be the first to know."

Do legitimate mass mailings ask you to send money to the person on the top of the list? I've never seen one like that. Now you're just making things up to justify the nonsense you obviously want to believe in, despite all evidence which proves that it IS illegal nonsense.

I've told you that any library will have books on scams that will explain to you why chain letters don't and can't work. That conflicts with your naive belief in them, so you will not avail yourself of that information. It's more fun to babble about bad drugs, as if that has ANYTHING to do with chain letters.

"Oh, yes I will and do pay taxes, because I think we all should pay taxes."

Yes, Tami, when those thousands of dollars roll in (Ha!), you be sure to pay tax on them--and make sure to tell the government that you made the money via a "legal" chain letter. I'll look forward to the news stories about you going to jail. See, it's illegal to participate in a chain letter. It's also illegal to NOT pay tax on the money you theoretically make from one. If you DID pay tax on any money you made from a chain letter (which you won't in reality), you would be admitting that you participated in one, giving the government the evicence to prosecute you. Amusing little trap they've set up there, huh?

Funny, once again you completely ignore the fact that the math necessary for everyone in a chain letter to profit is IMPOSSIBLE. Yes, Tami, truly, in YOUR world, 2+2 = 5 if you just BELIEVE.

"This is a great country, even with it's flaws. America, land of the free, home of the brave."

...and where a sucker is born every minute.
Tina
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 05:11 PM
you know what? you two should get married. then the glass could be both half full and half empty.
I must say that im leaning more towards Tammis argument. I totally agree that its ok for big business to scam people by the way they word things. do you know how many "FREE" trips Ive won. lol yes youve won a free trip, by the way mrs t____ where can we send all of the stuff youve ordered from us. (orderd....hold on there) they use fast talk and change wordig to try and trick you into ordering. so yes....I do agree with that. Also Ive noticed that Cranky likes to always get the last word. Ive read the words ITS ILLEGAL on this site at least 50 times.
Tami:Dream Catcher
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 | 11:41 PM
Thank you Tina. And no thank you, I've had my share of cranky husbands who know it all.

Cranky,

You can have the last word, for whatever it's worth to you. Being right seems very important to you. I do hope you have/find good people in your life. You are so negative and distrustful. Maybe it's because your are so cranky. Lighten up!

Well, gotta go. Got lots of letters to mail. I'll keep you informed. In the event that I get arrested, can I count on you to bail me out of jail? Don't you think we've bonded through these long emails? Don't worry, that ain't gonna happen because...IT"S NOT ILLEGAL.

See ya!

Tami
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 | 01:57 AM
Tina said:

"I must say that im leaning more towards Tammis argument."

WHAT "argument?" What FACTS has she given you to convince you that a chain letter involving money is LEGAL? Please point to even ONE, thank you.

I've shown you where the U.S. Postal Service (A.K.A. the Post Office) says they're illegal. That SHOULD be enough for any rational person, but I guess I just identified the problem right there, didn't I?

Then I went beyond that and told you that if you go to your local library, you can find any number of books on scams and hoaxes (look in the catalogue under "Impostors and Imposture") which will tell you the same thing.

Silly me. I didn't realize that things aren't illegal if you DON'T WANT THEM TO BE. What WAS I thinking?

"I totally agree that its ok for big business to scam people by the way they word things."

And that has what exactly to do with the legality of chain letters? Again, your "logic" seems to be that since someone else has participated in something shady, it's therefore OK for YOU to do something similar. Logically, that would be an acknowledgement that chain letters are illegal (or your point makes no sense). Then you make the "argument" (based on NO facts whatsoever) that they are totally LEGAL. Can't get your story straight, huh?

"Also Ive noticed that Cranky likes to always get the last word. Ive read the words ITS ILLEGAL on this site at least 50 times."

Um, since this discussion is still ongoing, how have I had the "last word?"

You've read the words "It's illegal" over and over because chain letters ARE illegal and people keep coming here and trying to convince others that they aren't. When they stop lying, I'll stop correcting them.
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