The Museum of Hoaxes
A Postal-Mail Chain Letter?
Posted By:
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Nov 14, 2004
 I received this chain letter in my mailbox:

Dear Friend,
Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first red the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to later it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter.

***
It goes on for another 2 pages about how if you send $1 to the 6 names on the list & you will make $800,000.00 in just 3 months. You pay for a list of names to send letters to. I KNOW this is a scam. I just can't figure out how I got it. It came to me at my married name (junk-mail tends to come to my maiden name), & it came to my actual house address. (My driver's license lists my PO Box & if you look me up at the DMV, the physical address is actually my prior residence...haven't had time to change it yet.) The phone & electric aren't registered in my name, they're registered to my husband. (There's not a water bill, we have a well.)

What I wanna know is: How did this come to me, with my correct name at my current physical address??? The 'person' who sent the letter is: Mr. Louis Jordan/1234 Shakespeare Avenue/Apt # 2E/Bronx, NY 10452

Also, a co-worker recently had someone slip this same letter under his door at his apartment building...Anyone hear anything about this??
Category: Scams; Replies: 1759

Comments
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Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 | 12:57 AM
Omonitor... said:

"Cranky Media Guy~
It amazes me how rude you are to people. Not saying your the only one but by far you are the worst."

In the recent case of Jody, if you look, you'll see that he/she just showed up and started insulting me. That's been the typical case over the life of this thread. I don't see the need to be polite to someone like that, sorry.

"The people who are defending this are people who are just looking for hope, why can't you just accept that?"

I disagree. I strongly suspect the people who vigorously defend the scam known as "chain letter" are involved in them. Again, if you look at this thread, you'll see other people who come here seeking information about chain letters. I don't think I've been rude to any of those people. They're looking for information and we give it to them.

I agree with you that most people who get involved in chain letters are looking for a way out of difficult situations. That's what makes those who take advantage of them so despicable.

"I'm sure that they've read some of the thread so they know all of the information that you insist on reapeating over and over so i'm just curious as to when your going to stop?"

If they knew it--and they're not ignoring it to take money from others--why would they be arguing against it?

As for repeating myself--and I DO--that's because I try to remember that new people come to this thread all the time and a lot of them may not have the time to go back and read earlier parts of the thread. This isn't like a movie where you wouldn't want to go over and over things you've said earlier in the plot.

"Maybe you'll be a less angry person and people will actually start respecting you."

Believe it or not, I'm really NOT an angry person. I just don't have a lot of patience with people who are trying to rip others off. As for respect, overall, I'd say I get about as much as I deserve.

"I'm only 19 so excuse me if i don't have the same intelligence as you."

I don't assume that a young person isn't as "smart" as me. You wouldn't have as much life experience as me, but that isn't the same as intelligence. You don't seem stupid to me.

"Can't wait to read your sassy remarks, just try not to be mean."

Hope I didn't disappoint you.
AverageJoe
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 | 01:16 PM
I want to just leave a note on here for the cynical people and the people who have a dream and a hope that something like this could work.

First off....I am not sure what Mr. Cranky is so bitter about, however if people want to believe that something like this can benefit them, who are you to take that away from them. I just read Len from Philly's message and then the second message after you all scorned him and you can see the despair in the new message. Actually...gambling may be illegal, but it is legal in some states and other areas. So it is not completely illegal.

Right now in this country we are being plagued with homes being lost, the highest unemployment and job loss since the great depression, and a war where people are losing their loved ones. The United States has become a selfish and divided country. People are often caught up in themselves and don't help each other out. The only time this country is ever united is when something bad happens. I think it is time for people to help each other out and share!

Please tell me how this could be a scam?? The letter I received did not tell you to buy anything or even tell you where to get a mailing list from. It simply suggested a few places where you could get one for someone that did not want to do their own research. It also said "if you know another place you would like to find one then use your source". If this is a scam then it would have to benefit one source. Who is this source that it benefits??? Yes the post office(government is getting their part), where ever you buy paper products from(could be anywhere) and the the six you send $1.00 to. Hmmmm.....how could that be a scam?

By everyone sharing six dollars you can really change one another's worlds! I'm sorry to you cynical people who say that this is not possible. Take the numbers and add them up! It can very well work just fine. Not to say that it will work for everyone because it just depends on who gets your letter! I encourage everyone to give it a try because you never know. Forget the negative people on this site that try to ruin everyone's day with negativity! Besides....maybe it will not work and your out a hundred bucks or so....you may have spent that at a bar in one night anyway. In order to be successful we all need to take chances. Why not take a chance supporting one another!

Also, for those arguing about if it is legal or illegal. Just let it go! You all go back and forth about it all the time. Tell me that everything all the major corporate companies in America do all the time is completely legal. All of the things our politicians do are legal. All actions taken by our government and law enforcement agencies are completely legal. NO! They break the law all the time to benefit each other! So...if we are all doing something to support one another and benefits one another's lives...then I say go for it! I am not saying to be dishonest though. If you do strike it big with this, then be honest and pay your taxes as such!

So to all of you out there reading this...keep your heads up high! Don't let cynical people who are afraid to take a chance get you down. Oh...and if this whole letter thing happens to work for you...Enjoy it!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 | 02:01 PM
AverageJoe said:

"First off....I am not sure what Mr. Cranky is so bitter about, however if people want to believe that something like this can benefit them, who are you to take that away from them."

I have to laugh at the notion that because I am accurately explaining why a scam doesn't and can't work, I am "bitter." Stating facts doesn't make one "bitter." Even if I WAS, that wouldn't make anything I said inaccurate or untrue. I'm sorry you dislike the reality here, but that doesn't change it.

"Actually...gambling may be illegal, but it is legal in some states and other areas. So it is not completely illegal."

Joe, as has been carefully explained in this thread multiple times, chain letters are illegal in ALL OF AMERICA. Lotteries, horse racing and casino gambling are all LEGAL forms of gambling. That has NOTHING to do with the illegality of chain letters and other scams.

"Right now in this country we are being plagued with homes being lost, the highest unemployment and job loss since the great depression, and a war where people are losing their loved ones... I think it is time for people to help each other out and share!"

The last thing people need in a difficult economic time is a SCAM. Chain letters do not "help people." That is the typical verbiage that a scam artist uses to get people to get involved. I'm not accusing you of being one of them, I'm just saying you shouldn't fall for that nonsense.

"Please tell me how this could be a scam?? The letter I received did not tell you to buy anything or even tell you where to get a mailing list from."

What you personally received may not have been illegal, but any chain letter involving the exchange of money that you might eventually get caught up in IS illegal.

"By everyone sharing six dollars you can really change one another's worlds! I'm sorry to you cynical people who say that this is not possible.
Take the numbers and add them up! It can very well work just fine. Not to say that it will work for everyone because it just depends on who gets your letter!"

The problem with the math involved in a chain letter has been explained over and over again in this thread. I and others have linked to the U.S. Postal Service's website which also explains why the math doesn't work. I'm sorry if that simple reality violates your wishful thinking.

"Also, for those arguing about if it is legal or illegal. Just let it go! You all go back and forth about it all the time."

The only people "going back and forth" are those who, like yourself, don't want to understand the plain and simple facts. I have linked more than once to the U.S. Postal Service's website where it says in clear language that chain letters involving the exchange of money are ILLEGAL. Your assertion to the contrary is incorrect.

"Tell me that everything all the major corporate companies in America do all the time is completely legal. All of the things our politicians do are legal. All actions taken by our government and law enforcement agencies are completely legal. NO! They break the law all the time to benefit each other!"

Not relevant. Two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, your argument suddenly seems to be that it's OK that chain letters are illegal because other people break the law as well. I thought you were saying that chain letters WEREN'T illegal.

"I am not saying to be dishonest though. If you do strike it big with this, then be honest and pay your taxes as such!"

To pay taxes on money gained in a chain letter would be admitting to having participated in an illegal activity.

"Don't let cynical people who are afraid to take a chance get you down."

It has nothing to do with "being afraid to take a chance," it has to do with not wanting to throw my money down a hole and enrich scumbags who take advantage of people like you.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 | 04:33 PM
Average Joe, just one page back in this thread, I quoted the part of the U.S. Postal Service's website which says in clear English that chain letters are ILLEGAL in America. Since you didn't bother to read that part of this thread (or chose to pretend it wasn't there), at the risk of being told yet again that I repeat myself, I'll give it you you here:

"There's at least one problem with chain letters. They're illegal if they request money or other items of value and promise a substantial return to the participants. Chain letters are a form of gambling, and sending them through the mail (or delivering them in person or by computer, but mailing money to participate) violates Title 18, United States Code, Section 1302, the Postal Lottery Statute. (Chain letters that ask for items of minor value, like picture postcards or recipes, may be mailed, since such items are not things of value within the meaning of the law.)

"The main thing to remember is that a chain letter is simply a bad investment. You certainly won't get rich. You will receive little or no money. The few dollars you may get will probably not be as much as you spend making and mailing copies of the chain letter.

"Chain letters don't work because the promise that all participants in a chain letter will be winners is mathematically impossible. Also, many people participate, but do not send money to the person at the top of the list. Some others create a chain letter that lists their name numerous times--in various forms with different addressee. So, in reality, all the money in a chain is going to one person.

"Do not be fooled if the chain letter is used to sell inexpensive reports on credit, mail order sales, mailing lists, or other topics. The primary purpose is to take your money, not to sell information. "Selling" a product does not ensure legality. Be doubly suspicious if there's a claim that the U.S. Postal Service or U.S. Postal Inspection Service has declared the letter legal. This is said only to mislead you. Neither the Postal Service nor Postal Inspectors give prior approval to any chain letter."

Is that clear enough for you, Joe?
That Darn Blister
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 | 06:19 PM
It doesn't benefit the Post Office, averagejoe (or should that name read averagenigerian?). The Post Office loses money on First Class mail. The price of a postage stamp in America is kept artificially low by subsidizing it through money made from bulk class mail.
Bug
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 | 02:29 PM
Again, I'd like to ask Cranky if he's actually read THIS particular letter?
I also would like to warn people that if you're having financial difficulties, spending $200+ on sending a chain letter out that, in all probability, will not pay you back, is being foolish. But if you've got the money to spare, and a whole lot of hope, go for it!
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 | 04:52 PM
Bug said:

"Again, I'd like to ask Cranky if he's actually read THIS particular letter?"

Is it the usual deal (or a slight variation on it) where you have a list of names and you're supposed to send money to the one at the top, etc.?

That's a chain letter and has been patiently explained (and proven) many times in this thread, they are illegal and don't work.

"But if you've got the money to spare, and a whole lot of hope, go for it!"

Sure, if you don't mind aiding and abetting an ILLEGAL SCAM, why not?
Anthony
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 | 01:29 PM
Hi Everybody,

My name is Anthony and I am a college student, I have spent the last 3 hrs going over this web site because I also have recieved the Dick Hollman letter and I just wanted to add my own few cents in.

I have been thinking about this letter for a little bit and as of 3 days ago send out about 150 of them and like you all I was concerned about if this will work, I mean it sounds quite possile and all but then y would people fail at it? The answer to that is easy and I only thought of 2 reasons as to why it wouldnt work....
1) Some people obviously would think of this as a scam and throw it out
or
2) they cheated and didnt send the $1 to the 6 names on the list (bad karma anyone?)

But then I started thinking as to how to make this work and the answer is actually quite simple and in front of all of our faces of thoes who are reading this site.......Its this site!!! We are all interested at least a little bit as to wether this works or else we wouldnt have put the time into doing the reasearch right? So I was thinking I plan on doing this 0 honestly and if it is done like this there is NO WAY it could possibly fail, the only thing stoppping anybody from making tons of money is particitapion. So I figure this is the best site to reach people interested in this letter and i came up with a solution:

IF u actually plan on doing this letter y dont you give me your name mailing adress and I will send a letter to you, My email is .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (even if your not totally sure yet do it anyway its costing me the $ do mail it not you)....According to the letter All we need is 7.5% of the people that recieve the letter to respond to recieve the $800,000 and through this website we can VASTLY increase that percentage.... in the last 15 day about 11 people have just responded to this thread not to mention all the people that have just read it......so what do u have to loose? how hard is it to raise $200? Im in college paying for my tution, rent and all of my expenses by myself and I could afford to do it. And Since I have posted this I truly believe my chances of not haveing to work for the rest of my life have increased by that much more.....

So in closing i just wanted to add this last statement to think about.......At the end of the day is it really not worth the risk of such a small ammount for a possibility such a high return of cash? I may not be sure if this will work for me but the one thing I am sure about is how much you will make if you throw that letter out....


Once again if anything i have said has interested you my email is

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Thank you for your time
Anthony
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 | 01:30 PM
Hi Everybody,

My name is Anthony and I am a college student, I have spent the last 3 hrs going over this web site because I also have recieved the Dick Hollman letter and I just wanted to add my own few cents in.

I have been thinking about this letter for a little bit and as of 3 days ago send out about 150 of them and like you all I was concerned about if this will work, I mean it sounds quite possible and all but then y would people fail at it? The answer to that is easy and I only thought of 2 reasons as to why it wouldnt work....
1) Some people obviously would think of this as a scam and throw it out
or
2) they cheated and didnt send the $1 to the 6 names on the list (bad karma anyone?)

But then I started thinking as to how to make this work and the answer is actually quite simple and in front of all of our faces of thoes who are reading this site.......Its this site!!! We are all interested at least a little bit as to wether this works or else we wouldnt have put the time into doing the reasearch right? So I was thinking I plan on doing this 0 honestly and if it is done like this there is NO WAY it could possibly fail, the only thing stoppping anybody from making tons of money is particitapion. So I figure this is the best site to reach people interested in this letter and i came up with a solution:

IF u actually plan on doing this letter y dont you give me your name mailing adress and I will send a letter to you, My email is .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (even if your not totally sure yet do it anyway its costing me the $ do mail it not you)....According to the letter All we need is 7.5% of the people that recieve the letter to respond to recieve the $800,000 and through this website we can VASTLY increase that percentage.... in the last 15 day about 11 people have just responded to this thread not to mention all the people that have just read it......so what do u have to loose? how hard is it to raise $200? Im in college paying for my tution, rent and all of my expenses by myself and I could afford to do it. And Since I have posted this I truly believe my chances of not haveing to work for the rest of my life have increased by that much more.....

So in closing i just wanted to add this last statement to think about.......At the end of the day is it really not worth the risk of such a small ammount for a possibility such a high return of cash? I may not be sure if this will work for me but the one thing I am sure about is how much you will make if you throw that letter out....


Once again if anything i have said has interested you my email is

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Thank you for your time
Anthony
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 | 01:31 PM
sorry guys didnt mean to double post i didnt think it went through the first time
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 | 04:42 PM
Anthony, you are getting yourself into dangerous territory, whether or not you realize it.

If you look up a few posts, you'll see where I quote directly from the U.S. Postal Service's web site where it says that chain letters using the mail at any point are illegal. You are soliciting for an ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

"I have been thinking about this letter for a little bit and as of 3 days ago send out about 150 of them and like you all I was concerned about if this will work, I mean it sounds quite possible and all but then y would people fail at it? The answer to that is easy and I only thought of 2 reasons as to why it wouldnt work....
1) Some people obviously would think of this as a scam and throw it out
or
2) they cheated and didnt send the $1 to the 6 names on the list (bad karma anyone?)"

Anthony, chain letters don't work (meaning they don't make every participant come out ahead) because that is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. If you are really a college student as you claim to be, you've taken enough math over the years to be able to comprehend this simple reality.

"So I was thinking I plan on doing this 0 honestly and if it is done like this there is NO WAY it could possibly fail, the only thing stoppping anybody from making tons of money is particitapion."

False. Chain letters CANNOT make every participant come out ahead. It isn't possible.

Anthony, you are trying to use someone else's website to solicit for an illegal scam. You have no right to drag Alex (the owner of this site) into this. I'm sure your posting will be taken down as soon as it's discovered. DO NOT post this information again or I will take action with the appropriate people.
Scari
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 | 08:30 AM
Dang Cranky! Get a friggen life! 5 years you have been following this thread and trying to convince everyone you are the law. Quit clogging the toilet!
I 'surfed' into this thread trying to find out if anyone has tried this and if they have at least gotten back their initial investment. I know, I know...it's illegal. Blah, blah, blah. How about this...I don't care! I'm such a bad person, trying to pay my bills and put food on the table!
I received this letter a few weeks ago. My boyfriend and I have just applied for unemployment and are having some financial problems. I would probably never think of doing this if it weren't so. I think that some people who actually do send out the letter, are the ones who are in some sort of financial situation and probably aren't far from robbing that bank. According to history, the letter started during the depression era...coincidence? I think if the people who come onto this thread would all just send the letter, then maybe we could bring it back to life. I mean, how did we all come to this thread anyway?
SO, I'm with you Anthony! If anyone wants me to send them a letter as well, just respond to this thread and I will send you my email addy and we can go from there.
Anthony
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 | 11:35 AM
Thank You Scari its people like u that would make this thing work and for many more that try it to possibly make money on it...... actually If you want i could send you the actualy copy of the letter because i dont know about the letter u got but mine was an awful photocotpy of the old one so i retyped the whole thing to make it look new and more presentable so let me know and i could email it to you


......And as for you Cranky i dont know y ur being such a debbie downer on this whole thing if we want to waste our money because we believe it can work then let us.....I am just trying to improve my odds at making this succeed not only for me but for everybody else participating i dont see why you are still throwing ur negativity in ....... For the record this isnt a scam by the way nobody is profiting from this except for the particiants and data line one.......which for the record is a member of the BBB ( better business bureau) i checked into it and they are in their databases and i HARDLY think that the BBB would let something like this slip past them....


I am trying to see if people can truly help people as the letter sugests and with the economy and market the way it is who knows anything is possible...
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 | 01:53 PM
Anthony and Scari, I know this will come as a shock to you, but this is NOT about me. You both seem to think that if you can just somehow convince me that chain letters aren't illegal and unworkable (or shut me up), they will magically transform into a LEGAL and WORKABLE way to make money.

That is not how the world works, friends.

"I know, I know...it's illegal. Blah, blah, blah. How about this...I don't care!"
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 | 01:57 PM
Interesting, I just went to datalineone.com. As I suspected, they are a company which sells lists. There's nothing illegal about selling lists of names. It's what you DO WITH the list that makes it legal or illegal.

It's funny, Anthony, you seem to have missed this part of their site, right on the front page:

"Our lists are not to be used for illegal mailings, or pyramid schemes. Our company is not associated with any work-at-home company nor do they have our permission to allude to any association. Our list are for legitimate business purposes."

Gee, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to see that part!
That Darn Blister
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 | 04:33 AM
Anthony is in Dingmans Ferry, Pennsylvania, if I'm not mistaken.

And since he apparently flunked out of college (seeing as he didn't even read Yahoo!'s Terms of Use regarding his email account - big fat warning: NO CHAIN LETTERS, right there in the legal contract), and that he appears to be a Christian without common sense, I would make a guess that this partying loser also thinks that cash gifting is legal, and may even be doing it.
Middle-Aged Virgin Succubus
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 | 05:06 AM
Anthony and Scari,
I think you'd get a far better return on your cash if you performed "2 Girls 1 Cup" or "Tubgirl" at birthday parties.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 | 01:31 PM
That's terrible, Middle-Aged Virgin, but it made me laugh out loud. I just don't want to watch their performances.
LoneStarGal
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 01:26 AM
Wow, I feel like stomping around, shaking my fists and screaming at the top of my lungs after reading most of these posts! There is so much anger, hostility, self-righteousness and I said vs. you said, premise vs. truth going on here.

I happened upon this site trying to find info on this chain letter that I received. It had the "as proven on Oprah, 20/20, blah...blah...blah!!! I was hoping to find some useful, intelligent and HELPFUL posts. These conversations have veered completely off track of the initial poster's message (Megan) in case anyone forgot. I am not taking a side, there were a handful of legitimate and unbiased OPINIONS and attempts for help but hardly any "personal results" information.

Instead of a tool for *POSITIVE* communication regarding Megan's original post most comments are just vehicles for verbal abuse!!! Individuals are lashing out and losing control (with words and number of posts) when his/her ideas, thoughts or feelings seem to be questioned.

What is going on here Crazy Media Guy? Why are are you feeling so cornered and threatened as to berate and begin conflict with every person who is in disagreement or neutrality of your ideas and comments? There is no need to put other people down with insults to their intelligence or actions!

Look at what other people are saying. They were trying to resolve an issue. Megan just wanted to know how her personal address was acquired for a mailing list, which led to others wanting to know **If anyone had tried the letter AND most importantly made any MONEY** You stated your thoughts on the subject very CLEARLY and subsequent readers acknowledged your comments REPEATEDLY!!! Yet you have continued a relationship on this site to purposely NOT REALLY hear and address what the others wanted or needed? What they needed were the ANWERS WHY AND HOW. Why is a personal address being made public and how much money can one really make? Those are realistic questions and situations that need help and affirmation not repeated eruptions of "It's Not Legal".

I only say this CMG because your cortisol levels must be dangerously high after maintaining prolonged and heated correspondance with so many! You need to take a walk, get a drink of water, just calm down.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 03:13 AM
Lone Star Gal, yes, the thread may have moved away from the original posting, but I'm not to blame for that. If you look, you'll see where people have repeatedly said that chain letters can work as claimed. Since that is untrue and leads to people wasting money which they can often little afford to lose, I've explained over and over the actual facts about them.

This nonsense about me being "angry" and so forth has been posted before by others. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now. Yes, I respond with some sarcasm to people who attack me. How would you expect me to respond to that?

"There is no need to put other people down with insults to their intelligence or actions!"

Ah, but I think there IS need to do that when they are trying to use this website to get other people to participate in an ILLEGAL scam.

"I only say this CMG because your cortisol levels must be dangerously high after maintaining prolonged and heated correspondance with so many! You need to take a walk, get a drink of water, just calm down.
Heidi
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 04:33 AM
Cranky,

I can
LoneStarGal
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 12:30 PM
Ha, Ha, Ha! Crazy Guy - most certainly do not want you to bust a capillary "holding your breath".

The world wide web needs more Realists commenting at 2:00 in the morning! I will FORGIVE you for trying to "Read Between the Lines". There was no need for that, my words are to be taken at FACE value and nothing more.

Be "curious" no more my agreeable friend. I am not refuting the fact "that chain letters are an ILLEGAL SCAM which steals money from people..." I AGREE with you in that stance! What I DO refute is yours, mine or another's defamation or despoiling of idealized objects, persons or ideas, the latter being a very AMERICAN notion. An individual has the right to BELIEVE IN that SPIRIT and HOPE!!!! I will also read between YOUR lines and ASSUME you agree to the AMERICAN truth of FREEDOM for you continue to exercise your RIGHT to the first amendment, Freedom of Speech. We all have FREE WILL and the right to MAKE A CHOICE.

That FREEDOM of CHOICE is steeped and rooted from the infancy of our great nation. If our forefathers upheld every FINITE law (postal law)then we would probably still be British with perhaps no "Illegality of.." Soapbox choice. It was the SPIRIT and HOPE (i.e. idealists and dreamers, not realists) in our forefathers that enabled movers and shakers to found America and the choices you and I have today! Stagnation and Nay Saying could have been detrimental to those dreams, yet HOPE prevailed!

Just because you or I vehemently disagree or hate scams or scammers
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 02:06 PM
Heidi said:

"Seriously, thank you Cranky for devoting years of your life to this issue. You have saved at least one person from losing $106. Your job here is done and it is time to move on."

First, Heidi, this isn't my "job." It's more like a hobby which I spent perhaps an average of 30 minutes a week on.

This'll come as a shock to you, Heidi, but this isn't about YOU (or me). If you read the thread, you'll see that people arrive here all the time. As I've explained in the recent past, a lot of them can't or won't take the time to read the whole thread so I repeat the essential information for their benefit. If my "job" here really was "done," you wouldn't see people make the same false claims over and over and over.

Again, I find your annoyance with me misplaced. Why not be annoyed with the people who are trying to rip others off, rather than with those who take some time to try to prevent that? How strange.

"Here is another thought. We could work on changing the law and have chain letters be a form of legalized gambling with the government getting their piece (postage) and if you choose to play, then step on up and roll the dice. That would probably be easier than trying to get Cranky to shut the hell up."

Why is it important to shut me the hell up? No one is forced to read any of this thread. You're free to ignore everything I say.

As for legalizing chain letters, we already have legal horse and dog racing, lotteries and casinos, even Jai Alai in Florida. What need is there for yet another form of gambling, especially one whose underlying system is inherently flawed?

Much of the appeal of a chain letter to the uninformed is the notion that "everyone can come out ahead." That illusion would, of course, have to go out the window if one were to be run legally, as it is an impossibility. At that point, it would basically just be another form of lottery.
Middle Aged Virgin Succubus
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 05:51 PM
Hello Heidi!
Hello LoneStarGal!

You know, back in the old country (Americans call it Hell), people like you would be being fattened up for special occasions. The souls of people willfully doing harm to others develop much better flavor than the souls of people who just mosey along through their sins.

This being America, however, we can't cook traditional cuisine. That doesn't ban me from making you suffer and sweat, thankfully. Shall we discuss covetousness and greed, girls?
Heidi
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 07:35 PM
Cranky said:
LoneStarGal
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 | 11:05 PM
Well, well, well. My stop over has turned into a delayed stay. The reply to my post creeps me out and so should the rest of the public be concerned with who may be on here!!!!!

I was addressing general concern and trying to find beneficial responses in regards to this chain letter in circulation.

Middle Aged Virgin Succubus - you are disturbing!!!! I do not want to personally affront anyone but at this point I do have to make it personal. Your "Hello" to myself and Heidi is so misleading. Your exclamation sounds so cheerful yet you go on to talk about souls, then covetousness and greed in the same thougt and in such a supreme overtone???!! Please never talk about my soul again....it should be your own you need to concentrate on!!!!

Why would you dain to lecture me on souls with a name like SUCCUBUS??!! Add to that your descriptive "Middle Aged Virgin"??!!

You display (obviously proudly) a name Succubus which means a Demon or Daemonic spirit, rooted in WEIRD SEXUAL DEVIANCE / VIOLENCE and all dealing with the SUPERNATURAL!!!! Again add to that your "Middle Aged Virgin" you are either:

1. A sexual predator
2. Someone that is in need of psychotropic drugs and a hospital for the insane
3. Or In need of a different type of drug for male sexual problems
4. The same person posting under two or three other assumed "Names" on this site

Which one would it be because the answers in your posts were nowhere near funny. And for the record - you cannot go on the premise of Defamation because your reply "This being America, however, we can't COOK traditional cuisine" had the ball in your court first!

I think borderline criminal activity via postal mail looks petty compared to you! Besides, I never ENDORSED doing the chain letter if you READ correctly! I merely said No one has the RIGHT to take the FREEDOM of CHOICE away from an individual. Get your facts straight and if I start getting weird calls or stalker-ish events happening...I know the source. I will definitely say an extra prayer tonight.

**BYE FOR GOOD to this thread and some VERY disturbed people - UGH!!!**
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 | 01:16 AM
For a person who "doesn't care what I think," Lone Star Gal, you sure write long responses to it.

Heidi said:

"Make you [sic] points, state them clearly and concisely. In one post, state the legality, the math and even throw in the morality of it all. Then it will be there for the informed reader to refer back to when making their decision. You could even re-post the same points every month or so just to be sure it isn
Jack
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 | 07:59 AM
:ahhh:
Yikes Cranky! You must have blazen fingers! For someone who spends only a half hour per week, you sure have a lot of long posts. You sure find a way to stop to this thread every day. On top of that, you think it's all about YOU! WHaaaa hahahahaaaa I haven't seen that kind of ego in a long time. Plus! 5 years you have been on your soap box! You want a hobby to stop scammers? Go to thescambaiters.com and do some scam baiting. At least you can waste your time and a real scammers time on that site.
As for chain letters. What most people come into this thread for...No, sorry, I don't know if it works. The numbers seem probable, but who knows. It's simple math that is supposed to double exponentially by 7.5% with each letter.
In tough economic times like these...(Thanks Georgie) I think people are reaching for something, anything. Yes, it IS a gamble. I still haven't gotten the answer to my question that I came here for in the first place. Can someone answer the plain chain letter question, without flaming, insulting, getting off topic, the morality, legal issue, or being disgusting? Has anyone tried it and if so, what was the outcome?
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 | 01:58 PM
Jack said:

"No, sorry, I don't know if it works. The numbers seem probable, but who knows. It's simple math that is supposed to double exponentially by 7.5% with each letter."

It's funny, Jack. People like you complain about how much I post and how I repeat the same points, yet you seem not to have actually read very much of what I've said.

I and others have explained numerous times how the "simple math" involved in chain letters doesn't and cannot work. I guess you missed the many times that ground has been gone over.

"In tough economic times like these...(Thanks Georgie) I think people are reaching for something, anything."

That, too, has been gone over. It's absolutely true that people are desperate right now. That's why it's so despicable that scam artists are pretending to have a magic way for people to make money. The LAST thing people need right now is a scam which will take their money and return nothing.

"Yes, it IS a gamble. I still haven't gotten the answer to my question that I came here for in the first place."

No, it's NOT a gamble. Please show me a chain letter which says that you *might* make money. They always make claims like, "If we all follow the rules, we can all come out ahead." That is a blatant lie.

When a person places a legal wager, unless they're mentally challenged, they go in knowing that they are not guaranteed to win. Chain letters lie about the arithmetic involved to mislead you.

"Can someone answer the plain chain letter question, without flaming, insulting, getting off topic, the morality, legal issue, or being disgusting? Has anyone tried it and if so, what was the outcome?"

In other words, you don't care that chain letters are an illegal scam; you just want someone to tell you that the impossible is possible.

Don't you think that if they worked, people would be clamoring to tell the world how much they made from them? Despite what you may think, I have no ability to keep anyone from coming here and bragging about their windfall. The fact that you don't see that should tell you something.

If you don't like the way the accurate information about chain letters has been given in this thread, why don't you do what I've suggested many times and go to a public library and read one of the many books you'll find there about chain letters and other scams? That too has been suggested several times over the course of this thread (another thing you seem to have missed).

By the way, if you think *this* thread is long, take a look some time at the one about LifeWave (a medical scam). That one is hundreds of pages long.
Cranky Media Guy Is A Loser
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 | 06:32 PM
Cranky Media Guy get a girlfriend. Or why don't you invest in the stock market or the real estate market. That's a legal way to lose your whole life savings. Seriously you have problems. FU
Danie girl
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 | 07:30 PM
i havent tried it yet but i will if u need updates just email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) im going to just hope that it works! id blow the money on crap anyways... just sent the 6 dollars out god bless the people who recives it im sure they need it in times like these.... im life we take chances, this is my life so im taking the chance.... please no insults were all adults
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 | 12:23 AM
My goodness, we're hostile, aren't we? Um, is someone FORCING you to come to this thread and read what's written here?

So, why would a person be so angry at someone simply providing ACCURATE information about how chain letters CANNOT and DO NOT work?

What might possibly be behind this anger? Well, just a theory, but could it be that these angry people are trying to suck others into their scammy chain letter(s) and are worried that others may come here, get informed and, as a result, not want to participate? Could be.

How else to explain such "logic" as:

"[W]hy don't you invest in the stock market or the real estate market. That's a legal way to lose your whole life savings."

So, since the stock market and real estate are currently in the toilet, people should throw MORE money at a decades-old scam which CANNOT work mathematically? Duh.

Danie said:

"im going to just hope that it works! id blow the money on crap anyways"

If you're going to participate in a chain letter, Danie, you ARE blowing your money on crap. Please take the time to read some of this thread which will explain to you in simple English why chain letters CANNOT and DO NOT work.

And we move on.
That Darn Blister
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 | 07:43 AM
Why would Cranky need a _girlfriend_?
Why not a boyfriend?
Anthony
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 | 11:17 AM
Hi guys I havent posted in a little bit but i decided to come back to this site and see how the comments were going......and to no supprise I see that cranky is still spewing his self-rightousness as self proclaimed police on chain letters......and before you so properly pick my comment appart piece by piece like we all know u are good at cranky it doesnt matter i dont plan on reading your response anyway.
I just came back to see how everybody else that might have some faith or hope in this letter was doing and i came back to let everyone know how i was doing.

About a week ago i mailed out 115 letters and posted on this site cuz i figured id contact more people that way and might try to pull us all together to work on this since it seemed like the best way to find out that"If we all follow the rules, we can all come out ahead." and as of today i have had three response mailings and i have about 3 of my friends interested in doing it so far.....and according to the letter thats 6 out of the 7.5% that i need for the ball to get rolling on this.....i dont know if it will work but i am already invested in this so im going to try and give it my all to see it succeed or else i would have wasted my money.

If anybody else would like to try it this way with me my email is .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) ........I re-typed the whole letter because the one i got was a crappily photo-coppied version and it is much cheaper to print our the coppies on a computer and i would be more than willing to email it to you.

best of luck to anybody that may try this
Anthony
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 | 01:49 PM
Anthony said:

"[T]o no supprise I see that cranky is still spewing his self-rightousness as self proclaimed police on chain letters."

When did I "self proclaim" myself to be "police"?

I find it amusing how you extrapolate from my simply providing accurate information about why chain letters CANNOT and DO NOT work to my having the ability to prevent you from doing something. Why are you so frightened by ACCURATE information? Could it be because I'm puncturing the little bubble you choose to live in? Sorry, but it's time to grow up; there is NO Santa Claus and chain letters are an illegal scam.

".....and before you so properly pick my comment appart piece by piece like we all know u are good at cranky it doesnt matter i dont plan on reading your response anyway."

In other words, you're sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you."

Anthony, it has been explained to you before that Yahoo's Terms of Service forbid using it to distribute information about chain letters. I guess that didn't penetrate your bubble. Oh well.
Jack
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 | 10:30 AM
Anthony,
Please keep coming to this thread and updating what the results are. I'm sure we are all curious, I know I am.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 | 03:06 PM
Ok, CMG, you've gone too far this time!!

there is NO Santa Claus


Next I suppose you'll be trying to disillusion me about the Easter Bunny?!?


:cheese:
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 | 05:15 PM
I'm sorry I said there was no Santa Claus. Let me rephrase that. Santa Claus is every bit as real as a chain letter's claim that every participant can come out ahead in the end. How's that?

As far as the Easter Bunny, well, who could possibly argue against the existence of a sentient rabbit who delivers chocolate eggs on a day whose date changes from year to year? Them bunnies is smart!
Everett Henry
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 | 12:31 PM
i got my copy of the letter about 3 weeks after i moved into my new apartment. i was really apprehensive about spending a little over 200 dollars in something that some people perceive as illegal or a scam, so i took the letter to my local postmaster who after looking at it said that it is not illegal, and not considered a chain letter under the postal code. so i bit the bullet and bought my security envelopes and my stamps and printed the letter up,bought the addresses and finally got it mailed out. a month after i mailed it i had only gotten 70 some dollars and i felt like i might have been scammed, but money continued to come in and around the 3rd month after i mailed it out i had received over $750.00 and the money has continued to come in and I've made over $2200.00 to date, I'm going to wait a months and mail out another set of letters.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 | 01:38 PM
Everett Henry said:

"i was really apprehensive about spending a little over 200 dollars in something that some people perceive as illegal or a scam, so i took the letter to my local postmaster who after looking at it said that it is not illegal, and not considered a chain letter under the postal code."

Absolute nonsense. Some time back, this thread got an almost identical posting from someone else. Notice that we are not told exactly what about this chain letter magically makes it not illegal. Why would a local postmaster put himself in the position of giving a legal opinion that could easily come back to bite him on the ass down the road, potentially costing him his job?

"Everett Henry"--almost certainly not a real name--is lying to con people into wasting money on an illegal scam. Only a scumbag would do that at a time when people are in desperate financial straits.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 | 01:42 PM
From the U.S. Postal Service's website:

"Be doubly suspicious if there's a claim that the U.S. Postal Service or U.S. Postal Inspection Service has declared the letter legal. This is said only to mislead you. Neither the Postal Service nor Postal Inspectors give prior approval to any chain letter."

That, of course, would apply to local postmasters.

"Everett Henry" is a liar.
Superstar
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 | 10:43 AM
Thank goodness for this site. I just got this letter in the mail on Friday from someone in Penn. It sounded good, but I decided to look in to it and found all of your posts, and believe me all I needed to see was that someone on here tried it and it was a scam !! So thank you, I will put my money to better use instead of giving it up to someone whom is prob rich in the first place.
WillyMcFly
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 | 03:18 PM
Cranky,

Great posts. I've been reading for about an hour and have gotten through 2007. This is better than anything I've read on the internet lately. It's a encyclopedia of stupidity. It's a great assessment of the state of our educational system.

By the way, I got the "letter" and promptly took it to the post office including the six names and addresses of the idiots trying to steal my money. If you don't think you are going to get caught, think again. The Post Office will get your name if I'm on your mailing list.
Smile
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 | 11:16 PM
wow! First of all, all those cranky's lay off Mr. Cranky. He's keeping this post alive. And if you are hot tempered, mad, want to swear, go yell in your pillow!

Second, I just received the $1 letter a couple days ago and saw many things that are questionable, even trying to find some info on the subject and found this post! I'm glad it exists.

Here are my questions and concerns regarding the letter:
1. Where is the proof it was approved by Opra or 20/20 ?
2. It states you can find more testimonies on youarehereandnow.com and gives an email address. The address does not exist and the website is nothing but businesses, could not find the one it mentions!
3. The prices listed for the lables and postage is wrong. (prices have gone up).
4. And if you have the same letter that I got, who is Robert Bach? And I couldn't find such a name on the website.
and define 'not a chain letter', it goes out like a chain letter?

Anyway, if someone is to mail it out, I would hope you update some information, delete what's not true, and have more testimonails to offer.
I thought of trying it just too see how much I would receive, but what the last guy said...I wouldn't want my name and address turned in for a measly $6 ! ouch!

My advice: don't do it. Donate the money to your church and get the blessings!

keep smiling...
Smile
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 | 11:43 PM
PS
I actually thought of placing my name at the 'top' of the six names. Why would I want to put it at the bottom! And as one other reader put it, whose to say someone doesn't send the money, but just the letters out.
I'm sure it happens all the time.
There's no, if very little, honesty in todays world.

And why can't someone just send a letter saying, 'we live in hard times, I'd like to give you a gift, here's $1 (more would be nice). If you'd like to be charitable also,....blah, blah, blah. Why all the drama? (Cuz it sounds good and convincing!).

I'd like to hear MORE from the people that are finding this money letter successful. but, I don't think they are out there,...if any, very few!

For any money making program, before you join...
DO YOUR HOMEWORK !
That Darn Blister
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 | 04:31 AM
Robert Bach is a florist in Rhode Island.
That was his website before Professor Higgins came down on him like the proverbial 800 pound gorilla.

Look up "MMFlorist" on Google.
AnnoyedInAlbany
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 | 08:40 PM
I just received this letter from "Lorenzo Lynch", ya know, the Arizona Cardinals football player? I'm going to turn it in to our post office tomorrow now that I see others are. I don't know how this person got my name, but hopefully they can get them for fraud if they aren't Lorenzo Lynch.
Shane E.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 | 03:41 PM
Blister said
"Why would Cranky need a _girlfriend_?
Why not a boyfriend?"

Haha. I'm sure there is a Cranky Media Girl out there somewhere.
Karen
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 | 05:11 PM
Pop that Blister... I call low blow / where is the peace and the love??
Thomas Garrett
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 | 03:28 PM
The funny thing is, that everyone keeps trying to find things wrong with everything. If people would try to be more positive then some of the items you are complaining about would work. Of course, I know you are all rich and do not need an extra $100 or more. You may get lucky maybe not, but how will you ever know if you haven't tried to accomplish something.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 | 05:22 PM
Thomas Garrett said:

"The funny thing is, that everyone keeps trying to find things wrong with everything."

Yeah, what could possibly be wrong with an illegal scam which makes mathematically impossible claims?

/sarcasm off

"If people would try to be more positive then some of the items you are complaining about would work."

Absolute nonsense. The impossible doesn't magically become possible just because you BELIEVE it will.

Thomas, you should try reading some of this thread. If you do, you will see detailed explanations of why chain letters CANNOT and DO NOT work.

"Of course, I know you are all rich and do not need an extra $100 or more. You may get lucky maybe not, but how will you ever know if you haven't tried to accomplish something."

Why not try something that ISN'T mathematically impossible? Why waste your time and money on an illegal scam?

By the way, for those of you who have complained about me posting the same information over and over, Thomas' post should demonstrate the necessity of the repetition. Not everyone has or will take the time to read the thread before posting.
Shane E.
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 | 07:21 PM
Cranky has to repeat the same information over and over. People just dont get it. Several of us have explained in the past that if everyone participated and the scheme was executed like a lottery it would be even less likely to work. Being "Positive" or optimistic about this scheme is not going to make it work. Just like being a positive compulsive gambler will not pull you "out of the whole".
Shane E.
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 | 07:23 PM
*hole*
Adrianne
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 | 05:53 PM
OK 1ST OF ALL WHEN YOU RECEIVE THESE "CHAIN LETTERS" IN THE MAIL IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEARCHED ONLINE ON HOW TO MAKE MONEY QUICK AND EASY AND HAVE PUT IN YOUR INFORMATION SUCH AS NAME AND ADDRESS IN SOME OF THESE SITES! NOT THROUGH CREDIT CARDS AND BILLS, THATS CRAZY. 2ND OF ALL WHY EVEN TRY IT BECAUSE IF YOU DO GET BACK "SOME" MONEY I SERIOUSLY DOUBT YOU WOULD GET ALOT. THINK OF HOW MANY PEOPLE ON THIS SITE HAVE SAID THEY RECEIVED THE LETTERS IN THE MAIL AND HAVE NO INTENTIONS IN RESPONDING. THATS THAT MANY PLUS TONS MORE NOT ONLINE WHO WILL NOT BE SENDING YOU A DOLLAR BECAUSE THEY THREW IT AWAY. SO SAY YOU SEND 200 LETTERS OUT AND HALF JUST THROW YOUR LETTER AWAY. MAYBE THE OTHER HALF SEND YOU A DOLLAR BUT ITS NOT REALLY WOURTH THE TROUBLE UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO THROW AWAY. ITS SOMEWHAT OF A GAMBLE. I HAVE RECEIVED 2 OF THESE "MAKE 250,000 IN WEEKS" LETTERS BUT HAVENT RESPONDED. I COULD CARE LESS IF ITS LEGAL OR ILLEGAL. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THE FBI IS GOING TO COME KNOCKING DOWN MY DOOR OVER SOMETHING LIKE THIS WHEN THEY HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DEAL WITH LIKE UM I DONT KNOW....MAYBE ACTUAL DANGEROUS SITUATIONS GOING ON! IF THOUGH ANYONE IS WONDERING IF THIS IS A SCAM OR NOT YOU CAN GO ON YOUTUBE AND CHECK OUT "GIFTING" TO MAKE MONEY. WHETHER ITS REAL OR NOT, I DONT KNOW BUT WHAT THE HECK IF YOU WANT TO TRY IT GO FOR IT!
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 | 12:21 AM
Adrienne, putting your Caps Lock key on does NOT compensate for illiteracy.

"IF THOUGH ANYONE IS WONDERING IF THIS IS A SCAM OR NOT YOU CAN GO ON YOUTUBE AND CHECK OUT "GIFTING" TO MAKE MONEY. WHETHER ITS REAL OR NOT, I DONT KNOW BUT WHAT THE HECK IF YOU WANT TO TRY IT GO FOR IT!"

"Gifting" is just another variation on the same old scam. Just because something is on YouTube, that doesn't mean that it's legitimate. Trust me on that one.
That Darn Blister
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 | 06:09 PM
Gifting - connected to the Sovereign Citizen Movement and domestic terrorism.

Completely illegal, with multiple Supreme Court rulings that the "gifters" blithely try to deny exist.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 | 12:07 AM
"Completely illegal, with multiple Supreme Court rulings that the "gifters" blithely try to deny exist."

Sure, but other than that...
Adrianne
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 | 10:02 AM
CRANKY MEDIA GUY: MY LAPTOP IS BROKEN SO THEREFORE MY CAPS LOCK STAYS ON FOR YOUR INFORMATION. AS FOR ILLITERACY, I AM HIGHLY EDUCATION SO DO NOT DARE QUESTION MY INTELLIGENCE! IF YOU WANT TO GO THERE THEN ID JUST LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT "ABSOLUTE NONSENSE." IS NOT A SENTENCE!
Karen
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 | 12:38 PM
Guess what I just got from my own stepmother??? A chain letter including lottery ticket scratch offs! Im not going to tell her Im not forwarding it... just going to send her a scratch off back in the mail and act like I did it. Easier to keep the peace that way then try to explain that it's illegal and have to get a lot of guff.
hcmomof4
in So. Cal.
 Member
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 | 01:43 PM
Point well made, Adrianne.....
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