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Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 01:19 AM
I have the smileys Rex D and I am holding them for sale on ebay, unless you want to pay the ransom. Muwahhhhaaa. 😛
Ok Alex, there isn't a devil smiley, we have to have a devil smiley!!! |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 02:37 AM
Damn you! Fine! Whats the price? |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 04:31 AM
Agreed Rex, nobody is arguing in the sense of getting overheated, simply putting forward arguments.
I will admit however to have been using what I believe is called "Socratic Irony" at various points in the thread, I am from Wales though so maybe it didn't work. |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 05:00 AM
Thanx Dom. No, I like the sound of that. "Socratic Irony". In fact I would like to use that if you don't mind. If you do, than fine, whatever. It's your gig. But I really dig that. |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:45 AM
Nice one, yes fine; as Monty Python once sang : "Socrates himself is particularly missed, a lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed". |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 02:17 PM
Ha ha! Thats funny! I haven't heard that one. Thankx Dom. Where are the smiley's? Are they out partying for New Years? |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 04:12 PM
I still have them Rex D! :cheese: It will cost you a kidney to get them though! :lol:
Ok, seriously though, the smileys should be right above the comment box. |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 04:48 PM
🐍 YES! THEY'RE WORKING!...DAMN IT! Now they're not! OK Myst, I'll get the scalpel. |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 05:31 PM
LOL Poor Rex. What browser are you using? |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:12 PM
Internet Explorer, I think. 🐛 Yeah! They're back! HA! Now they're gone again. What the hell? I have mozilla fire bird too. |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:12 PM
What are those things in brackets? |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:14 PM
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Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:14 PM
Sorry. Cant stop. |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:19 PM
Internet Explorer, you think? Man you need some help! LOL Are you using a pop-up blocker? I ask cause it seems like it isn't loading the page right for some reason.
The button things with strong, em, u, strike are for formating your posts. |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:26 PM
Rex, what do you mean that the Smileys are there and then they aren't there ❓ Once you choose a smiley the window containing them will disappear and then you have to click on the smiley link again to get it to reappear. Is this what's confusing you? |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:39 PM
Yes Alex. I'll put one on the post, and then when I click on the smiley thing, they don't come back up. Yes I use a pop-up blocker, and don't know any computer lingo. Thanks Myst and Alex for the help. |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 06:41 PM
Ok so once you click on a smiley you try clicking the smileys link again but the window won't come up? |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 08:34 PM
That is correct Myst. Sorry it took so long. Someone else was on the computer. |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 09:05 PM
Hmmm strange. It will let the window pop-up the first time but not after that. You might try holding down the shift key while you click on the smileys link. |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 09:11 PM
OK 😝 :cheese: :lol: As you can see, you are the bomb, just don't explode next to me. Thank you much for your help Myst |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 | 09:17 PM
Wooohoooo It worked! You are very welcome Rex. 😊 |
Branston
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 | 12:34 PM
Scam? Possibly not. There was a BBC documentary on over christmas, a tribute to Tanni Grey Thompson. During the programme Sally Gunnell told a story about Tanni collecting bottle tops at the olympic village for a wheelchair. Tanni did not deny it. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 | 12:41 PM
"Tanni did not deny it."
Good, then she can prove that she actually did it? |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 | 03:17 PM
Just because she was collecting bottle caps doesn't mean it's true. What kind of logic is that? She was just as fooled as all the other people collecting bottle caps. |
Ross CB
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 | 05:59 PM
Hi all - interesting site/forum. Apologies if I'm not pressing the right buttons here, but this site (http://www.letsrecycle.com/materials/plastics/news.jsp?story=3853)
has an explanation as to how plastic bottle tops are actually being collected, recycled and thus provide the Children's Hospice Naomi House with a worthwhile donation towards their heating bill.
A friend has also emailed the hospice to make sure it isn't a hoax ... and they are 100% for certain collecting the green/red/blue milk bottle tops as covered in the letsrecycle article.
Just to stay on the original topic - we were collecting plastic bottle tops to provide a wheelchair for some charity somewhere in the Midlands and if interest still persists I can try and find the final resting place for this original charitable collection.
Cheers
Ross |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 | 06:07 PM
Interest will always persist. Please, if you know, do tell. |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 | 06:43 AM
Ross : We have already been told about the Naomi House scheme, sadly no details have been forthcoming about how the plastic is actually recycled. This would be interesting as if anyone takes the trouble to read this thread right from the start including the very useful links they will see that the same anecdotes are repeated over and over but with not one solid detail of how the plastic is being recycled and what its is actually worth. They will also see categorical denials that any plastic is being recycled for money. |
Sarah
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 07:00 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?l_id=269&ObjectID=9002429
New Zealand Herald: people from Palmerston North spent 4 months collecting plastic milk top rings as a result of an Internet hoax. They believed the rings would be swapped for wheelchairs at Auckland's Starship Children's Hospital. It started when a hospital worker saw the bogus scheme advertised on the Internet.
I saw one claim that Tanni Grey Thompson's collection was sponsored by a Greek water company during the Olympics and Paralympics. I also spotted something on the BBC website about the same collection and which gave the sometimes quoted figure of 3500 tops = 1 wheelchair http://www.bbc.co.uk/southampton/faith/olympic_chaplains.shtml |
Sarah
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 07:09 AM
Naomi House - details on HOW the plastic is recycled is at http://www.letsrecycle.com/materials/plastics/news.jsp?story=3853 "GHS Recycling then granulate the plastic and sell it on to a processor in the Midlands that GHS has a long term relationship with." The tops are made of HDPE and granulation makes plastic pellets which are the raw material for other plastic goods made by whoever GHS sell the pellets to. |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 08:27 AM
Sarah - thanks, did you notice in your quote "GHS Recycling then granulate the plastic and sell it on to a processor in the Midlands that GHS has a long term relationship with."
That this actually tells us nothing about who this firm in the Midlands are and how the plastic is actually used and how money is generated from this process ?
Suppose I stand on a City Centre street collecting money for charity (I have done this), how long would I have to stand there to raise the equivalent money to a metric tonne of bottle tops ? A couple of hours on a match day I would venture. |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 08:30 AM
Follow-up to my last message as I don't seem to be able to edit it. I am making the assumption on what a metric tonne of bottle tops is worth based on the optimistic guesswork hazarded earlier. As with much of this topic guesswork and anecdotes seem to be all there is to go on. |
Sarah
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 12:59 PM
"This actually tells us nothing about who this firm in the Midlands are and how the plastic is actually used and how money is generated from this process ?"
Actually it does. The firm in the Midlands is actually irrelevant since the money is going from the recycler (GHS) to the charity.
The article stated how much GHS pay Naomi House for a metric tonne. There's no reason for GHS to disclose how much they sell the granulated plastic for - one assumes that they need to make a profit too. How the granulated plastic is used by the Midlands firm is also not relevant (if you look at the way the plastics industry works, it will get used to make more plastic products along with other pelleted plastic of the same kind). The relevant part is the tonnage collected by the hospice (the charity) and the payment made to the hospice by GHS.
"Gus Harris, director at GHS Recycling, has been accepting plastic, polyethylene bottle tops from the Naomi House Children's Hospice in Winchester for around |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 06:30 PM
"And not a mention of a wheelchair or artificial limb anywhere in the chain!"
Thanks, you beat me to it, this is what the thread started with.
I don't for a moment have the temerity to demand anyone explain anything they don't want to. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of a very persistent story which has suspiciously few verifiable facts.
I'm still left with the question : Can anyone think of anything to collect with less intrinsic value than bottle tops ? What would be the problem with collecting coppers ? |
Ross CB
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 | 02:56 PM
Sorry for the long pause - been a bit hectic.
Dom - you are right in that there are certainly many items that have a higher intrinsic value, such as ... ummm ... cash - which could be (and is) donated to charity, but what is being tapped into here is the recycling nature of the collection. Someone earlier in this thread covered it I think - many people recycle plastic bottles (they are the only kind of plastic our recycling wheelie bin 'accepts') but we throw away the tops.
Sarah has also pointed to the website that spells out exactly how plastic bottle tops are turned into cash for a good cause rather than (in a small but long lasting way) add to landfill.
As for the original topic -- I asked the lady at work who it was for that we originally started collecting bottle tops for a wheelchair and here is the response :
startofnote
I don't know the name of the school itself but it was an ADI in the Midlands who asked us to collect them.
Her daughter attends a special school and it was they who were collecting them. I got confirmation that they had collected enough, apparently they needed 8 stones of tops to pay for the electric wheelchair, but it was a genuine collection which acheived its target.
endofnote
mmmmm - not definitive I'd say. I'll try and get some more information but am not hopeful.
Incidentally - if people are following this out of an interest in plastic recycling per se ...
http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/doorstep_recycling_in_england.pdf
has a host of colourful graphs and contains a wealth of information !
Cheers
Ross :cheese: |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 | 06:59 AM
Thanks for the info, even though if anyone can't see a trend by now then they aren't trying very hard.
Less intrinsic value than bottle-tops ? looking around me I see an apple core and tangerine peel then realise that as compost that probably has at least equivalent value to bottle tops. The fluff you get in Vacuum cleaner bags ? Well possibly people have sucked up metallic objects or anything really and we arrive at more potential value that plastic bottle tops.
Let it go and take that walk back to reality street I say. |
Ellie Gill
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 | 07:10 AM
I contacted Naomi House hospice this morning and their reply is as follows:
"Thank you for your enquiry regarding the collection of milk bottle tops. This is not a scam and we do collect red, green and blue plastic milk bottle tops. A recycling company in Portsmouth buy them from us for |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 | 12:09 PM
Yay! Someones doing it. |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 | 12:38 PM
Good.
So where do the wheelchairs come from ?
Why don't people recycle the whole plastic bottle rather than a tiny part of it ?
How many bottle tops are equivalent to collecting one pence ?
Is everything here untrue ?
http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk/humor-site/walkers-hoax.htm#bottletops
Particularly the part that involves
An email to Kerry Pollard MP gets the standard reply "Unfortunately extensive enquiries by constituency office staff have resulted in no possible outlet for plastic bottle tops". |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 | 02:00 PM
1)No one said the real plastic bottle caps where being donated for wheelchairs, that's what the hoax said.The real caps are donated for money and not wheelchairs if I'm not mistaken. 2)Who knows? Maybe for originality or individuality setting it apart from any other possible donation efforts. 3)Who cares? 4)No 5)Who cares? |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 | 05:01 PM
With respect, the whole thread is based on the wheelchair thing, it seems to have become "Can something virtually worthless be recycled?"
A few things seem to be clear after all this palaver.
The wheelchair thing is a scam/hoax.
There seems to be no ready explanation for the bottle top fixation at the expense of a more "green" policy of recycling the entire container.
Collecting even small amounts of small denomination coins would be a better use of time and effort.
If straightforward questions that would be easy to demonstrate the answers to if something were on the level cannot be answered, a reasonable person should assume that an assertion is false. |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 | 03:35 AM
OK, makes sense, but you are wrong in a major area here, and that is that the thread was to prove that the wheelchairs by milk-cap donations were false, which was, yes, but the thread was to disprove that milk-caps were being donated at all, and sad to sat Dom, but as it appears, they are being donated to collect money, and not wheelchairs. So they are being collected. That was the point, was it not? |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 | 08:00 AM
Sarah's original query of Aug 27 2004 reads
"How about some hoax-busting on the stories about collecting a child's weight in empty Walkers Crisps Packets to fund an operation and the one that is currently going round Britain like wildfare - a hoax about collecting a wheelchair's weight in plastic milk bottle tops or other plastic bottle tops to get someone a wheelchair?" |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 | 02:42 PM
I stand corrected there. This went so long that I had forgotten the original query, but we have found that caps are being collected and donated for a good cause which everybody was saying that it was not true. Only the wheelchair part is not true, but donating caps for a good cause is. |
Cranky Media Guy
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 | 03:56 AM
This kind of hoax (or collective delusion) is not new. At least here in the U.S., this kind of thing dates back to at least the 1930's.
A variation on it was a rumor that the Ford company would give you a car if you found a certain vintage penny, I believe.
These things are NEVER true. I remember reading a story several years ago about some town in America that collected a HUGE lot of something-or-other in the mistaken belief that the manufacturer would give them medical supplies for a local child who was sick. Needless to say, the locals were very disappointed (and pretty pissed-off at the guy who organized the drive) when they found out that there was no truth to the story. |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 | 02:19 PM
I'm sorry to keep banging on here - really I am - just like the snopes.com page on the subject. What I keep coming back to personally is :
Would I in all conscience suggest to people that they collected such worthless items on the vague promise that you might get |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 | 11:07 AM
Hi
my name is liam and i am a student beginning a project into the feasiability of starting a bootle top recycling scheme in my area for charity. Any info -from how quickly and how many you could collect? Existing schemes i could contact? Especially interested if any one knows a school or organisation that has collected whether hoaxed or not?
thnk u
rgds
liam |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 | 11:41 AM
also on the whole wheelchair thing RECOUP (RECycling Of Used Plastics) believes the hoax may have originated from exustence of Bouchons d'amour, a national charity in France which collects bottle tops mainly for sports wheelchairs. They have made over |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 | 05:09 PM
Liam, I am not an economist but your logic seems to imply that there is an infinite demand for bottle tops and also that the collection of them is simply a numbers game that doesn't have its own costs. It also implies that there are infinite numbers of people willing to recycle them and pay money for the raw material.
A few years ago the British Royal Institution Christmas Lectures were done by a materials scientist and during the lecture on plastics what struck me forcibly (as I remember it) was that plastics are a very poor use of the planet's resources as not only are they very expensive in hydrocarbons to produce, they are very expensive in energy terms to recycle. I claim no expertise in this area and others may correct me.
A link that may interest you that has been quoted umpteen times already is
http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk/humor-site/walkers-hoax.htm#bottletops
Finally, why are you only interested in collecting the tops ? What on earth is the problem with the bulk of the plastic contained in the rest of the bottle ? |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 01:49 PM
on bottle tops: probably a hoax unless it is for Naomi House Children's Hospice in Winchester. They collect red, green and blue milk bottle tops to help thier fuel bill. As part of my project am trying to contact other claimants of sucessful schemes.... let ya know.
on the bottle: PET is indeed recyclable a much more valuable than the tops coz of weight and maybe plastic type. However as a student this subject is quite exhaustively covered by RECOUP (http://www.recoup.org). A quick scan there will tell you everything. Also manchester operate a collection scheme for PET post-consumer bottles at 7 supermarket sites.
regarding my project - bottle top collection is possible but wil never be PROFITABLE. however that does not stop the activity from yielding revenue.
This can produce a level of constant fund for charitable causes if
1 storage is free (or as good as).
2 transport costs are quite low e.g < 25%
3 some people sacrifice loads of time
4 loadsa people sacrifice very little time and keep their tops, get them took to schools etc.
i.e. operating expenses except transport are zero
France has a national charity that have zero operating expences. Transport costs are took from the price paid for the tonne(s) of tops. I don't speak french and am strugling with some of the sites esp. since googles translation ain't always too hot but i thnk that sometime they get charitable types to provide transport for free. They currently collect around 200 tons a month and recieve a bit less than 200000 euros a month for it.
As i've said the best bit about this whole thing is that the oragnisation came out of the myth.
To work in the UK, especially on such a scale as bouchons d'amour, would want a network of reprocessors (they use 4 currnetly) covering particular areas of the country. Any plastics people listening? also according to recoup reprocessor demand is 3x supply in uk.
The hoaxes prove there are people willing and able to collect and just need loadsa poeple to keep hold of a few and it does add up. The UK used 24.65 million plastic bottles per day in 2003 (recoup)- i'm not saying they would all be recycled but if they were they could get 2 sports wheelchairs for bouchons d'amour so i assume 2 pretty decent wheelchairs here too.
Next need regional and local depots in schools or under any roof that satisfies fire saftey coz lets face it no ones gonna rob them coz there pretty worthless unless your a plastic reprocessor and even then only what |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 01:51 PM
cont.
Finally regarding the energy use making and recycling plastic. A ton of plastic takes 1.8 ton of oil to make. Seems to me to be worse to throw it away. have to dig out more oil when that plastic could be used for other plastic products, particularly plastic timber. Help save oil and energy consumption finding it and digging it up.
Also if not recycled there are two options for councils
1 landfill = tax not to mention the environment effect of plastic. Very long Life cycle, dangerous to wildlife particularly marine-small pieces mistaken for food all down the food chain - gulls and fishes bellies swollen with it- also crashing against rocks in waves etc can go minutely small, into tiny strands eaten by small fish then taken up food chain.
(from The Independent but you gotta pay for article now on t' net)
The tax ain't nothing small, new EU legislation means that get charged per ton over allowance and tax will increase as time goes on - and us brits are way ahead of most of europe on the whole sending lots to landfill league.
2 Incineration. Avoid tax but do we really want to put all that stuff in air?
Now i did a degree in economics and i'll tell u what the councils will choose assuming they short termist in outlook. the most efficient use of their resources and they will burn waste - get energy, avoid tax. be a money spinner compared to recycling. Most profitsble/cost-effective always good???
ideally we need to use less plastic. But industry loves 'em - hygeine etc. but really they know its looks that sell. biodegradables an improvement but they will give off green house gas methane unless composted proper. Reuse would be good but impossible- against legislation post-consmuer plastics cannot be used for foodstuffs again- gotta be virgin plastic -probably reason for layers uopn layers of plastic then least outer layers of wrapping on massive pallets and that can be recycled for same use. Recycling is good then, shame so much is shipped abraod (particularly PET bottles - 25 make a fleece in china!), though that wouldn't have to bottle tops unless been shredded and pulverised i imagine.
All thats just what i believe and could provide evidence of if writing an essay...
which reminds me you might want this
http://www.bouchonsdamour.com
the best stuff is in the individual departments websites
+++ |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 01:52 PM
cont.
So really why bottle tops?
So small they are brill. Any one can collect them and help - people who don't recycle nothing else, kids whose parents don't. Too small to be good for profit if you are gonna collect them it'd have to be for charity. Get evryone involved and see that a little thing nd bit of effort can do good. It could be used as an educational tool in schools, my primary aim for collectors, especially in the complicated realm of plastics. Bouchons d'amour is suprisingly big in france, spreading to Belgium (partner = IECC- international excutive chef's club- hotels), in some parts of italy, other parts have started own bottle top collection for an italian water charity (http://www.cmsr.org/campagne/acqua/acqua).
what does this add up to. The sucess in france has got a lot to do with their good recycling record - they've had a lot less mines to fill and have been recycling longer. Also media interest with a top comedian (it seems - french sites again), womens PGA golf tour getting through few thousand a week (they already recycled the bottles and used to chuck the tops) and paris half marathon. However stil exceeded expectations so much bouchons d'amour sought other reprocessors than their original Eurocompound. but eurocompound thought they had exclusive rights and there a legal battle over the name of the charity. Most people seem to have been loyal to the comic but from the jist i think that Eurocompound have put bottle top collection points at recycling depots, but i have to admit i'm sketchy on last bit. If it true, or even if the depot bit is not, plus the legal battle show there must be some money and economic benefit up the supply stream even if it is only at the reclylor level. If, with voluntary hope, charities can benefit from demand for plastics it is a GOOD thing.
Finally if everything works out such a charitable scheme could help change the UKs whole recycling culture - bringing more awareness, more involvement and less bloody rubbish.
rgds
soz if y'all fell asleep |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 | 06:36 AM
Liam, let me first congratulate you on the first well-researched and cogently argued message in favour of recycling the tops. I have just two observations.
The lecturer at the Royal Institution's point was that as well as being horrendous in hydrocarbons to produce, plastics were equally bad to recycle so the net gain is very hard to pinpoint, avoidance of the material is the best plan.
The reasoning as to the choice of bottle tops - they are small does a few things for me - firstly undermines the whole recycling agenda as you are missing most of the plastic, secondly the information I had was that the plastic in the top was of a lower grade than the bottle and thirdly those one pence coins I keep on about are even smaller and are 20 to 50 times more valuable.
My third point of two is that the transport arrangements for this exercise have a measurable impact on the planet so have to be part of the cost-benefit equation. |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 | 09:54 AM
ok fair nuff
firstly i did sat that ideally we should use less plastic but your argument misses the whole point that it is there in the production and waste stream for at least the foreseeable future probably decades or more. Wasteonline has section of its environmental impacts of extraction and manufacture, potential dangerous chemicals and Long life cycle making it virtually non-degradable. All this I accept.
But Plastic has benefits industry love. Firstly it is relatively cheap esp when compared to glass bottle and metal cap. VERY VERSITILE- loadsa different types of plastic not to mention the possibilities of combining plastics to give father benefits, even just cosmetic. And it is light "Up to 40% less fuel is used to transport drinks in plastic bottles compared to glass bottles" (RECOUP). That |
Liam Murphy
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 | 09:55 AM
Cont.
Right so industry recycles 95% of their waste. But "This is relatively simple and economical to recycle, as there is a regular and reliable source and the material is relatively uncontaminated." (wasteonline.org - plastic fact sheet)
We'll ignore specialist plastics like ABS in cars etc., think they pretty good on those too though -least compared to households
Next comes post-use plastic. Households are largest producers of this but plastic only makes up 7% of the weight of the bin - although in "visibility" stakes probably accounts for 50% I reckon.
Then there are difficulties. Contamination is the main one. From this I mean foodstuff, glue, and paper but worse would be a high proportion of a different plastic. A few percent of wrong polymer could make whole load worthless. Need to target particular polymers and maximise cleaning and sorting.
4% of bin is dense plastics but there are different types of plastic for bottles of shampoo and pop, with different plastic in some caps and yogurt pots are rigid polystyrene then there's expanded polystyrene.
3% is films. Also sometimes made of different polymers but equally recyclable. God even my Andrex packaging is labelled LDPE. However still recyclable even it they icky (though this discourages households - ickyness). (wastonline figures)
Plastic bottles is being taken on by councils and heavily promoted by recoup. Film harder to collect, lighter, likely to be contaminated with foodstuff. Same yougurt pots shampoo or household cleaners like bleach. Plastic vending cups was my originally idea from all those water coolers and that. But Save A Cup already exists |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 | 01:56 PM
Again very comprehensive but I think we are never going to agree on the bottle top fixation - either recycle the whole container or don't, but don't piddle about with a tiny fraction of it.
If you recycle for the right reasons - saving the planet - then you have to accept that it is not about making money, its about trying to make the planet's resources go further.
This unfortunate hoax, as all the best ones do, muddies the water rather nicely. |
Rex D.
in Milwaukee, WI
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 | 06:39 PM
Who said the rest of the bottle isn't recycled? |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 | 08:16 AM
Err Liam did
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 12:52 PM
cont.
So really why bottle tops?
So small they are brill. |
Liam
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 | 08:39 AM
hi
thought i'd explained quite well but lets try again.
The bottles and the tops are made either of different grades or types of plastic. The process is different to recycle different types of plastic. If a quantity of one plastic is CONTAMINATED with a small amount of a different type of plastic it could ruin entire output.
You cannot recycle tops and bottle together.
Bottles are recycled in UK, 485 million in 2003 from 9.1 billion (http://www.recoup.org). Tops are not except by Naomi House.
Bouchons d'amour recycled over a billion tops in 2003.
On the pennies. Same comparison made by an italian professer to organiser of collection in Tuscany (http://www.cmsr.org/campagne/storia)but it was 1 cent of a euro rather than a penny.
The answer is the same: Would make more money if collectors gave penny rather than tops.
But collecting allows everyone who wants to to become involved. The whole action is educational and creates intangiable benefits (knowledge on issues, inclusion) that are even more difficult to calculate than the possible tangiable benefits (environmental and charity reevenue). |
Liam
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 | 08:57 AM
right
so it tops were collected we get to my cultural argument again.
Households who collect tops will ask same question you ask. What about the bottles?
If council has collection scheme may increase the volumes they collect as involvement in recycling increases. An intangiable benefit arising from bottle top collections.
If the council does not run the scheme from the charirties point of view may be more worthwhile to collect bottles in that area. If they can get the storage for several tonnes of plastic tops and bottles do both.
Then they'll ask questions about other plastics and other waste.. possibly changing some peoples attitutes on recycling forever.
Also finally i am doing a project and have not reached any conclusions yet, though it is obvious i have a positive outlook on the possibilites.
Once again like to APPEAL to any others on this tread or who might read it and have collecte tops whether hoaxed or no i would like to contact them. Find out a few things like how much collected, how long it took, how many involved, name of charity or plastic reprocessor etc..
my e-mail is on a previous post |
Dominic Shields
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 | 10:07 AM
Sorry once again Liam, I understand, I just don't agree. |
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