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Our life itself is the biggest lie
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Posted By:
leo777
Apr 23, 2005
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The fact is that we all live a lie.According to where we come from.
I was born in Russia during the Cold War.
And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name Igor
Sikorsky invented the helicopter.And the names of Wassily Kandinsky(famous
artist)and igor Stravinsky(famous composer)never were mentioned in Russian
education system and many others because of political reasons.They left to
the West and were considered as a traitors to Communist Russia.
So what are we tought in schools is a reflection of what our govervents and
cultures believe in.
THE WHOLE HISTORY OF THE WORLD IS THE BIGGEST HOAX OF THEM ALL.
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Comments
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Page 2 of 4 pages < 1 2 3 4 > |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 12:28 PM
Do you think we American's don't ignore defeats unless they're glorious. The only defeat Americans celebrate is the Alamo. Vietnam? Nope, draw according to my history classes. If anyone admits it was a defeat it was because the home front didn't support the troops.
Maegan - the war was affecting us. Millions of Jews were being slaughtered and this fact was very well known among American Jews as well as our government. Our closest allies in the world were being dragged down. Before we entered it seemed entirely likely that Germany would control all of Europe, North Africa, and NW Asia. How could this possibly not affect us, whether politically, economically, or morally? I can understand hesitating about entering another major war but eventually you have to suck it up and do what's right.
As for involving ourself in every little war that comes along - I don't think WWII was directly responsible for this. I think it was decades of "containment" of the communist problem that ingrained it into us. As I stated before, the USSR was always seen as a threat, even before the war. In fact, early German military buildup was allowed, in part, because Nazi Germany was almost rabidly anti-communist. Who knew that Hitler wasn't going to be the West's pawn against Stalin?
Since the USSR has fallen and Russia isn't seen in as bad a light anymore our continued aggressiveness overseas is, I believe, due to political and economic pressures, both from without our country and within.
Whew... |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 03:50 PM
Woo, this thread is long. I thought about using Japanese, but it just didn't look right. And to date, I have used the term jap many times, and it has only been commented on by Americans. And maybe the recently-immigrated Japanese wouldn't speak up if they were offended, but I'm sure all the Japanese-American people I know would speak up.
Sure, my usage might make things akward, but when I've decided on a convention, I stick to it. I'm stubborn that way. |
Wally
in La La Land
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 04:58 PM
If the Vietnam war was a draw, then why is it noe ruled by the Communists? |
Accipiter
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 05:15 PM
Actually, American involvement in WWII started right around the same time that British, French, and Russian did. Where do you think Britain got all its food and petrol? From American convoys. Much of the Russian equipment was also provided by the Americans (although the Soviets were careful to remove every label that said "Made in the USA" and replaced them with "Made in the USSR"). So America wasn't just sitting doing nothing before Pearl Harbour. It just didn't make any direct military commitment before Dec. 7, 1941. Then the Japanese attacked, and that gave the US military all the excuse it needed to get involved. |
Sharruma
in capable of finishing a coherent
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 06:10 PM
Us brits wallow in our greatness
It's hard to do if people tell you where you lost
Some defeats can't be hidden as the entire history of the country stems from it.
The French invasion of 1066 for example.
Also certain battles have different names depending on the which side.
the battle of 1503 for example is referred to as Flodden Field by the Scots and as Bramstone Green by the Brits. |
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 08:23 PM
Wow! I leave town for a couple days and the thread goes to hell in a handbasket.
To answer Leo777's quesions a few pages back, I meant your theory is incorrect. You were able to figure out the truth about Sikorsky after you obtained more information, despite what you were originally taught. They were not able to hide it from you because you were open to other opinions.
Having said that, I can now say the fact in question is not entirely correct. Sikorsky built the first useful single-rotor helicopter. There were other rotary-wing aircraft before his (double-rotor helicopters, autogyros, etc). |
Katherine
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 08:46 PM
Oy. CP, I <i>don't</i> want to get into a flamewar with you, so please don't think I'm purposely stirring up things, but:
How do you know I'm not Japanese?
I'm not, as it so happens, but I could very well be. You never know who's listening (and who could potentially be offended!) on the Internet, and it's often wisest to temper your speech for that very reason. This holds true in real life, as well--ninety-nine percent of the time, that guy who tells anti-Semitic jokes down at the bar (or that bloke who tells anti-Semitic jokes down at the pub) isn't going to have anyone call him on it, but for all he knows, that stranger at the next table could have a Jewish father, and all hell will break lose.
I don't know for a fact whether "Jap" is considered offensive in--Britain? Is that where you are?--but the plain fact is that it's a highly offensive term in America, and a large percentage of the Internet is composed of Americans, who will invariably leap on you for using it. I could see someone using a term like that if they genuinely don't know that it's offensive, but I'm not sure why anyone would purposely use a term that they know is offensive to large groups of people.
You say, "Sure, my usage might make things akward, but when I've decided on a convention, I stick to it. I'm stubborn that way." And I can see why you would want to do that, but language (and what is considered polite!) does change over the years. In the past, terms like "negro" and "colored" were actually polite, courteous ways of referring to persons of African descent. However, modern usage has obviously changed, and anyone using those terms nowadays would be doing so to deliberately cause offense, despite the fact that those words were perfectly polite in the past. The same with "Jap"--up to and during WWII, as far as I can discover, it was a perfectly acceptable term, but in the years since, it's grown to be quite offensive. If we were in 1941 and you were using that word, that would be great; but this is 2005, and regardless of how innocuous the word used to be in the past, it is indeed considered highly derogatory today.
So basically: I don't intend any of the above in a mean way--no flamewars! And I realize I probably can't change which words you choose to use, but I think it can be useful to remember that the words you use may be really offensive to someone, regardless of whether you know it or not.
That's all. Cheers! |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 09:38 PM
To Katherine.
Thanks for a comment to complement Japanise people.
They have proven to be one of the most organized,disciplined and high-quality producers of everything known to a modern man.I am sure that those who talked bad about them use their superior products by companies like Sony,Panosonic and many others.When their products made in Japan by japanese people ,while American companies make their products in Communist China.Yes it's still communist,dispite some clever reforms by Chinese Goverment to stay in power.I really despise that.
I live in the USA and "made in USA" label meant so much in the past.It meant quality.
Now when I bought my new laptop from Dell and took it out of the box I saw a label "Made in Malaysia .It broke 3 times in 9 months.
Dell in the late 90s was the best PC company in the world.Well not anymore.My next laptop will be from Sony.
Not to meanchion all the great video games that come from Japan and video game systems(Nintendo,Sony's Playstation,Sega).I've been a big fan of japanese RPG/strategy games,the most famous one Final Fantasy. |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 10:29 PM
To Charybdis
You are absolutely right that the Cold War had started in 1917.
Actually I am very impressed with your knowledge about the events most of people don't care about.
But you missing the point here that I am an anti-communist to the core and just trying to establish here things that a bit confussing to many people.
Yes.The nuclear bombing of Japan had two purpuses.
One was to stop the war,but the main one was to send the message to Communist Russia:Don't even try to expand your Evil Empire(Roland Regan)or we we will abliterate you from the face of the Earth.
About "there is NO honor during the war" I would heavily desagree.
A history reflected in literture is full of examples of of people facing death with honor,and the enemy appritiating the bravery of the opposite site.
So get it out of you sick mind.
There are people of honor among any nations and cultures,not all Germans were nazies and not all Russians were communists.And considering the fact how well american capitalists doing buisness with communist China shows the apposite.That some people would sell their honor for few bucks. |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 11:02 PM
To Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
To answer your question.I spend half of my life in the USSR and the other half in the USA.So I am very well familiar with both points of view.
I still desagree with you that my original message didn't specify the fact that I was ejucated in Russia.Ther was no any sentence between two sentences that I moved to any other country.Any writer would say that.
But I don't really care.
I made my point that we all see things according to where we come from and what they teach us at school and I am sutisfied with the outcome.
Unfortunately the argument made a move towards
one specific argument about a nuclear bombing of Japan and it's real perposse.
There are many other issues at present time in the World that could relate to this discussion and I believe that many people were left out because of that. |
leo777
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 | 11:46 PM
To citizen Premier
"And, you might note, many cities were devestated to the same degree as Hiroshima and Nagasaki with more conventional weapons." WWII sucked.
It is nice to know that you feel that WWWII sucked,but your other statements do seem be a bit out of focus.
Yes,most of Europian cities involved in WWII were devestated just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
With one little difference.People had a chance to get to the bomb shelters.And there was no radiation issues.Think of Chernobol.Many people of those two cities suffered from horrible radiation related diseases for years after the bombing.
I don't know where you live,but how would you like a nucliar bomb to be dropped on your city.
It's extremely insensetive to make assumptions of things you have no idea about.
The smoke from Twin Towers penetrated my appartment so we had to seal all the holes in it with duck tape.
Do you have any tales of your own to tell. |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 12:02 AM
To Captain Al
"Sikorsky built the first useful single-rotor helicopter. There were other rotary-wing aircraft before his (double-rotor helicopters, autogyros, etc)".
Please point me in the right direction to proof your claim.(websites) |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 01:20 AM
I still can't help it to desagree with those who say that my original message is unclear that I was ejucated in Russia.
It's true it doesn't say that I live in the USA.
But I did say that many important World History people were absent in Russian ejucation system.How would I had known about it?
It is when I came to the West I had found the truth that the Communusts were hiding from their own people.
Sorry to all.But I wouldn't change a word.
I read books and poetry.
My favorite american writer and poet is Edgar Alan Poe. My favorite british poets are William Blake and Christina Rossetti. |
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 10:15 AM
Leo777, although I don't consider web sites as the last word for proof of anything, most history sources, including web sites, agree on the timeline for the development of the helicopter. A search on Yahoo or Google will give more that enough hits for further study. But for a start you can go to:
<a href="http://www.helis.com/pioneers">helis.com</a>
and:
<a href="http://enae.umd.edu/AGRC/Aero/history.html">enae.umd.edu history</a>
"A helicopter is an assembly of forty thousand loose pieces, flying more or less in formation" |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 02:52 PM
leo777, one time I slept through a new Star Trek episode. |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 08:31 PM
Hi Captain Al.
I did check helis.com
Very interisting website.Since ideas of helicopter go back 1.500 years and a number of people was involved I think that it goes to the quiestion."Who really made it possible?".The craft that we all can recognize today as a helicopter.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/helicopters_and_igor_sikorsky.htm
And according to helis.com the first life saving mission when victims were unreachable by any other means was performed by Sicorsky's craft. |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 08:51 PM
Citizen Premier which Star Trek series was that.
My favorite is the original one with captain Kirk.
According to your nick name"Citizen Premier" you think of yourself as superior over other "citizens".
Don't oversleep the next Star Trek episode.I stopped watching them long ago.
The greatest one was the original one.And the "Next generation" was a good one.Anything after that would put you to sleep.It probably was one of those. |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 09:09 PM
Hi Captain Al.
I would really like to hear your opinion on who was really responsable for the invention of televison as we know it.No magic mirrors or magic balls from fairy tales from the Dark Ages. |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 09:21 PM
Sorry for mistyping "television".There are people at this Forum,who very sensitive about that.Like Smerk for example.Kind of ridiculous to send a message to sutisfy those purists who make a big deal out of it. |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 10:01 PM
Leo,
Until you "master" the use of the English language, then who are you to tell the people who have it as a native language, how your use of it is "usually" interpreted? No... you didn't specifically say that you had relocated to a different country, but on the SAME note you didn't specifically say that you were educated where you were born! It's like me trying to tell you how to properly use Russian! SO GIVE IT A REST ALREADY...
As for thinking that the "real" reason Japan was bombed using the new-found nuclear capabilities... that just cements it for me that you're an idiot! There was a MAJOR race going on at the time... quite a few countries were racing to be the first to develop it successfully. Germany was indeed working on it, and by association so was Japan. If they had perfected it first do you really think they wouldn't have used it based on "humanitarian" reasons??? Are you familiar with "The rape of Nanking?" Your opinions may be heart-felt but they're obviously uninformed!
PS - Get off Smerks back you dork! She's a regular here and we tend to stick together!
😛 |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 10:32 PM
To Sharruma.
Well.It wasn't really a symphony.
The piece was called "1812 overture"by Peter Tchaikovsky.
Very famous piece of music that we hear in movies,cartoons and comercials and probably will hear till the End of Mankind.
Like "The Nutcracker" by the same composer during the X-mas time,that became an American tradition.
More about 1812 Overture.
Since I have 5 years of music school, I probably have a bit more knowledge about the classical music or the music in general without rediculing anyone.
Tchaikovsky used the national anthems of Russia and France to create the picture of the conflict between two nations in 1812.
A tribute-loose interpritation of the piece was used in one of my favorite comedies "Caddyshack"(1980)with Bill Murray,Chavy Chase and Rodney Dangerfield.
I think, in general,everyone has heard this piece. |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:18 PM
To-Mark-N Jen
Midwest Usa.
I don't have to master anything.
The fact where you come from, is enough of information to separate idiots from none-idiots.(a bit cheap shot but when you called an idiot,you have to respond to the masters of English Tongue with grace.
You can stick with anybody as much as you want to,but as one of my favorite shows "X-files" states "The Truth is out there".
So relaxe,don't pay any attention to every mystyping or misspelling from anybody,english speaking or none-english speaking people.
The issue about Nuclear bombing of Japan has seemed to be resolved without your stupid comments.
The only one person that I have respect at this Forum is Captain Al.
Talk about you bull sh*t every day issues to your heart content.
It was a big mistake to post a message at this Forum anyway.Coz' your major purpose is to talk about bull,not to try to learn or debate the things that are important and interesting. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:32 PM
As for my name, I have no idea where it came from. I think I heard it in reference to a Russian president, as an aberration of simply Premier, e.g. Premier Stalin. Why I chose it as an sn I'll never know, but it's what I use for everything.
And anyways, in my ideal communist society, everyone is equal. I know you hate communism, though, but remember that just because a country claims to be communist doesn't mean that they are. One can't judge communism by slimey countries any more than one can judge Christianity by the Crusades (though Hollywood is trying to change that). And, as an interesting historical note, Marx hated Russians. His political philosophy was intended for industrialized nations, such as Germany.
You know, I swore to myself I wasn't going to get political in this thread... |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:33 PM
...but who can resist a bad-natured flame war? |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:33 PM
Who said you had to master it Leo? NO ONE! Dumbass!!! I just said UNTIL you do master it then... "Who the fuck are you to tell an English speaking person how your ENGLISH is interpreted?" Once again, showing yourself to be the idiot we all know you are!
none-idiots??? What the hell is that? I think that despite your best attempts to disguise it, you're NON-intelligent!
You said... "So relaxe,don't pay any attention to every mystyping or misspelling from anybody,english speaking or none-english speaking people." to which I must inform you that I don't. When did I ever say I did? Do you understand the English that you read? What I said was your meaning was unclear!
The issue about the nuclear bombing of Japan seems to be resolved... who cares??? No one, no debate or evidence anywhere can convince an idiot, like you, to see the light. Sure we developed the bomb and killed all those civilians JUST to show the Ruskies who's better! How STUPID!!! It was to end the war quickly with as few American casualties as possible... no question, no debate. If Japan had had it first they would have used it, so would have Germany. You're the whining wimp who was stating it's use was SO unhumanitarian!
You don't debate SHIT anyways... you're so ignorant that you wouldn't concede ANY point that wasn't your own! Proof in your face still wouldn't convince someone like you... you're comparable to what we call a "bible-thumper" so now all that matters is this... Do I care what you think? About ANYTHING?
😊 |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:34 PM
Not me Citizen... not ever!
:coolgrin: |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:49 PM
PS Leo - Back off the Capitilization... it helps people to recognize that you're really an idiot in disguise. Also, how's come you never answer my questions? Did you originally SAY that you were educated where you were born? If not then the ladies right and you're just an ass! And what about Nanking? If everyone but us Americans were damned honorable during this war then what the hell went on there? Do you have ANY idea? No! You go around shitting on the world like that and you can count on getting it in return... and the main reason for it wasn't to show up the Ruskies! If we were so "concerned" with containing communism at the time then how's come the summits in Tehran and Yalta went the way they did??? |
leo777
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 | 11:51 PM
To Smerk.
"Thanks for the line of defence Mark! Yesterday I was still angry at the guy for getting me all riled up. Today, I'm sitting back and thinking he's just a sad little person. Damn...wonder how long he's lived in USA for?"
25 years.Would that sutisfy your little brain.
It is the wrong forum me for sure.There are many much open minded forums out there.
I just walked into a trap.
But the point of my original message did succeed.
So if you don't like my presence in your Heveanly Forum I would gladly disappear.
To Smerk: type into Google "Stravinsky" and maybe you will become a bit more ejucated about World Culture.
Instead of fighting me you could've had learned some things you don't know about.
My IQ in English is 175.Since I am suffering from manic depression the test was conducted at Beth Israel Hospital in NYC.
Maybe it's my last message here.Unless it's of a friendly nature. |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:05 AM
Sorry, but the original point of your message is common knowledge and therefore requires no debate.
"So what are we tought in schools is a reflection of what our govervents and
cultures believe in."
Would you really expect a government to teach anothers point of view historically speaking? Really? Think about that...
As for any other points you made, they're just opinions... and we all know what opinions are like... assholes because EVERYONE has one! And even if your opinions were valid or had merit you'd still be in the wrong forum because you're a jerk! I've seen every post you've made and am not normally filled with such comtempt... but you just went too far! Shut the hell up already about an argument you have no chance of winning and should never had started to begin with!
Here's a little hint to help you in the future...
If someone who speaks ANY language that is a second language to you, tells you that your meaning is unclear... BELIEVE THEM! Just because of that, because of your inability to admit perhaps you had made a small mistake, and then you had to badger girls over it, that alone let me KNOW that you're a dumbass!
😠 |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:06 AM
PS - Your I.Q. has NOTHING to do with how big of a jerk you are! Or whether or not you're capable of debating... |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:16 AM
Why do you assume that I don't know who Stravinsky is? |
leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:20 AM
To Citizen Premier
I am sorry for ignating a debate.
My sincere appologies.
Leo777. |
leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:26 AM
To Smerk
Sorry that things got out of hands.
But you did say in your prev.messages that you didn't know about people I was talking about in my orig.mes.
My appologies.No hard feelings.
L. |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:29 AM
Let's start a more friendly debate.
Ialta Conference... or Yalta?
Iosef Stalin.... or Joseph? |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:33 AM
Apology accepted.
I'm not usually one to get involved in arguments. I apologise if there were occasions where I came across a bitch. While not learning about the above said Russian figures at school, I also have a musical education, plus constant trawling through my parents record collection, so I'm aware of Stravinsky. And Stradivari. And Jean Martine. (Although the last one is definitely French, not certain about Stradivari.) |
To Mark-N-Jen
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 12:55 AM
To Mark-N-Jen
I said I only will reply to freindly mes-s.
I am forced to make an exception,because I was bombarded with the most insaulting mes-s from you I ever recieved in my life.
My comment:
You may throw all your rage at me.I don't care.
We have nothing to talk about.
I am not going to insault you ,though I feel like it.
You said I will not win at this Forum.
It never was my intention anyway.
I am a passer-by.
I tried it .It didn't work.
But I got almost 100 responses score.
So who is an idiot now? |
Leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 01:04 AM
To Smerk
Got your message.Let's stay friendly.Leo. |
Razela
in Chicago, IL
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 01:06 AM
Ok, well this is amazingly off topic, but since we |
leo 777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 01:09 AM
To Citizen Premier
Sounds good!
I like it! |
leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 01:16 AM
Razela.
Got you loud and clear.
Stravinsky had an influence on all 20th century music.Including jazz and pop music(rock-an-roll).
I like his "Petrushka".In this piece he used the drums very reminecent to what became rock music in the future. |
leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 02:19 AM
To Mark-N-Jen.
So you say I don't know how to debate.Amuse me.
Let's say I say:
"Last week I went to France.
And you know what, they are such an arrogant people".
Let's compare it to my statement:
"I was born in Russia during the Cold War.
And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name ............"
Is it not clear enough? Tell me. Because I would like to learn.Where is the mistake?
Are these 2 phrases similar in constraction,or both of them wrong ?
Or there is a diffirence between them? |
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 10:20 AM
Now that the daggers and ICBMs have stopped flying back and forth, I can respond to leo777's question about the invention of television 'as we know it today'.
Unfortunately, that's too long a story to go into here. There were so many people working alone and in groups that it can't be credited to any one person.
Even before it was finally perfected, the commercial potential was realized and it was out of the hands of individual experimenters and into the realm of big corporations like RCA. |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 03:49 PM
Leo,
What follows is a 2-part response... please read both, or neither.
There is no ridicule or immaturity contained. At best, a debate about your use of English. At worst, some valid points about your use of English.
I look forward to your reply, if any... |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 03:50 PM
Leo,
Your statement MAY very well be clear enough to me... you should've noticed that I hadn't posted concerning it previously. I didn't post about it at all UNTIL you wouldn't concede a point you should have! Until you were badgering the English speaking people involved in the conversation with you, about how a statement made in "English" MIGHT be interpreted! They are MORE qualified to judge how an "English" statement or phrase might be interpreted... just as YOU are more qualified to judge how a "Russian" statement might be interpreted.
I understood from the beginning what you actually meant. So now that I've answered your question, are you man enough to ever answer mine?
DID YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE EDUCATED WHERE YOU WERE BORN?
If your answer is no, which we know it is by reading the thread, than there IS room for a different interpretation than the one you intended. There are many dialects and varying styles of use with the language, I'm sure you're aware of these concepts, so in the end... you were WRONG! They were RIGHT! Your statement could have been taken another way, any logical mind with even just a smidgeon of common sense would concede that point.
Sure I was a jerk when I went about trying to explain that point to you, but no other approach had worked! You were still being a jerk towards people, so you got some back! Yours and hers (Smerk) opinions on the matter differed (and Yes, I'm aware that the 2 of you have made nice) and yet you were still badgering her on the matter endlessly!
You said in your latest comment to me...
"Last week I went to France.
And you know what, they are such an arrogant people".
Let's compare it to my statement:
"I was born in Russia during the Cold War.
And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name ............"
To which I'll reply... Are you really asking me, an English speaking person, or are you instead about to tell me how it is concerning my own language, that I've spoken my entire life? Do you really want my opinion on your statements or not?
If so then read on... if not skip this part entirely.
No, these two statements are NOTHING alike.
This - And you know what, they are such an arrogant people". - Is an opinion.
Where as this - And you know what,they never tought us in school that a russian by name ............" - Is a fact.
There are differences already. Just in the way they're presented helps the receiver in forming opinions about the information contained.
The first statement makes me think..."This guy has an opinion. Not saying it's right, not saying it's wrong, just that he has an opinion."
The second statement makes me think..."This guy is telling us a few things about himself. What I "infer" (remember that word Leo it's important later) is that you're; Russian, middle-aged, and intelligent. (you are using a 2nd language after all) For me, as an English speaker, there are no "automatic" inferrences / assumptions from what I read, on the aspects of your education, except level of achievement. Perhaps I might infer / assume that you're English is so good you MUST have been educated in a Western school? Perhaps I might infer / assume, ESPECIALLY when you take both the first and second statements together, that because you were born during the Cold War (when travel was severly restricted if not forbidden) but yet are a traveler to France, that you or your family must have left / escaped Communist Russia at some point in the past? At NO point reading these statements, or your others, do I automatically infer / assume that you were educated in Russia. YES, I see how you might have meant that, but as a Yank who speaks English I'm telling you, it's not "clear" that you meant that, to everyone. Do you see yet where I'm coming from? |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 03:55 PM
You said..."Is it not clear enough? Tell me. Because I would like to learn.Where is the mistake?"
Your mistake is in your inferrence, your assumption that your point was clear... when it obviously wasn't clear enough.
You said..."Are these 2 phrases similar in constraction,or both of them wrong ?
Or there is a diffirence between them?"
As you know, Yes I think there are differences between them. Did you mean are these 2 phrases similar in contraction, or construction? Not that it matters but they differ in both ways.
In contraction they differ because one is a contraction meant to convey your opinions. The other is a contraction meant to convey facts about you. Is it not possible that your use of contraction didn't convey ALL the details you desired?
In construction they differ on the grounds that one is fact AND opinion. The other is all fact. What is inferred by both statements can NEVER be "complete" so to speak, as inferrence and interpretation depend on an uncontrolled variable, the receiver. This receiver may not use the language in the same ways as you, therefore it's POSSIBLE that your meaning might not make it through interpretation complete! Wouldn't you agree?
I have not resorted to ridicule or name-calling on any level. Merely made a few debatable points about "your" use of the English language and how it was interpreted. Are you able to debate as you claim? Will you answer my questions directly or once again simply resort to..."I was right! You were wrong!"
Either way, in the end... I still got what I wanted Leo. For you to apologize to, and stop badgering my friends! For that, I extend my gratitude. |
LaMa
in Europe
Member
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 04:05 PM
can somebody with the POWER close this thread? Please? I feel it has become highly unproductive and repetitive, kinda like the pro-ana thread... |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 04:16 PM
Would you rather Leo and I discussed these things in the "Off-topic thread" LaMa?
Should "ALL" repetitive and non-productive discussion just take place there instead??? |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 04:17 PM
At least we're discussing it in here and not involving innocent bystanders. 😊 If you read this in here, it's because you clicked the button and then chose to read it. Kind of like two brothers who are bickering... at least we're doing it in the backyard and not in the living room disturbing the entire family... 😉 |
leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 06:31 PM
To Mark-N-Jen.
Thaks for answering my message.
Though the apologies to Smerk and Sitizen Premier have nothing to do with you.
By nature I am one of the friendliest people out there.I was planning to do that anyway.Calling me an idiot,a jerk and using f-word have nothing to do with it.
Constration vs Construction.I meant Construction.
Something called Logic usually helps to understand the difference and the meaning behind a mistyping or misspeling.You admitted that you got my original message right.
I wanna make my last point and it all will be over.
It was one-man war.I never got any support,(few sympaties)because this Forum is dominated by people from USA,which accidently my home.
But I hate wars and I feel sorry for every unfortunate human being on this planet.
There were many people out there who where in the wrong time in the wrong place.I do believe we all have to have more respect for each other and there will be no wars anymore.
Yes I came to the West during Cold War.I was ejucated in Russia.At school and in college I studied German so when I got the West my English was "0".
I started reading books in English with a book in one hand and a dictionary in another.I started with classics.Then realized that people don't speak that way anymore.I turned to paperbacks for a while to get a better feel of the laguage.Then I turned to science fiction and fantasy.I had red at least 15 books by Piers Anthony and became a big fan of his.After that it was all techno-English because my job has something to do with computers.All my best friends have been Americans,English and Irish.I had no Russian friends.
To LaMa
I guess I have The POWER since I started it.
It's officially CLOSED.
But I am not the boss of anybody.If people wanna talk on a subject,they have every right to do that. |
Leo777
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 06:42 PM
Sorry for few misspellings
"There were many people out there who where in the wrong time"
I meant to say:
"There were many people out there who were in the wrong time".
I know that there are more ot them,but this one was important. |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 06:52 PM
Leo,
Friend... you still haven't answered even one question I've posed. It matters not, and you can just forget this ever took place if you so wish. But since I answered your questions why don't you answer mine?
Since my posts' were quite long-winded and drawn out let me just list them for you;
-Did you "say" you were educated were you were born?
-Would you say that someone who speaks "English" as a first language would have a better idea of what statements in that language "tend" to convey?
-Is it "possible" that perhaps you meant one thing but actually conveyed another? Because although your use of it, as a 2nd tongue is excellent and to be commended, isn't as "honed" as some Yank who's been speaking it forever?
If the apologies to Smerk and Citizen had nothing to do with me... like that matters either way. Not trying to restart the "hostilities" between you and I here... but you were called an idiot and jerk because you WERE being one! When I am, trust me, everyone says so and I appreciate them for it. The lady who speaks English (first) told you that your statement was unclear. You then went on for 4 pages badgering her about it and about talking it over with you. Because she didn't agree with you, you drove the crap into the ground! You were being a jerk about it... and just like the rest of the world, "What goes around, comes around." Ya know? As for the f word, well yeah it was in there... but it's not as if I called you a f*@#-face, or f*@#-head or anything. I believe the phrase was..."Then who the fuck are you to..." Which is in no way, me calling you a fucker! Trust my grasp of language use on this one. So maybe I'm not as HUGE of a jerk as you might think... 😊 |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 06:53 PM
Whye do wee not dysregarde all rvlse of spellyng, lyke thay dyd before pvblyc edvcatyon? |
leo777
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 07:17 PM
To Mark-N-Jen.
My message is full of misspellings.
Look at it closely .Do you really believe I don't know the difference btwn Thanks and Thaks.Also there are couple of words missing.
My best friend is a very well ejucated Irishman and when he sends his e-mails to me,they look like this:
"Whye do wee not dysregarde all rvlse of spellyng, lyke thay dyd before pvblyc edvcatyon?"
Not because he doesn't know English.He has a problem with typing.But I do understand his messages using my logic and would never ever tell him about that.Because it's not important.As long as you got the message,that is all that counts.
I use a laptop that is usually on my stomack,which makes typing a bit tricky. |
leo777
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 08:32 PM
To Captain Al.
I think it would be extremely impolite of me not answer your comment,though officially I declared this tread closed,since I believe that you were the only person at this Forum that I had an intelegent conversation with without pointing out at my knowledge of English.
Thanks man.
You right about the invention of Television.Pretty tricky one.Isn't it.
As for me.I'll move on.
I thought this forum was an international one.
Since I can't hear opinions from people of other nations,even British I lost any interest in it.
Farewell to everybody.Don't worry,be happy(Bobby Mcferrin) |
PolishAngel
|
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 10:41 PM
Leo.
You're not alone.
You have a friend.Though it's a little too late. |
Brooklyn
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 | 11:03 PM
Leo.
You like Poe.I like your comments.
Here's to you my friend.
Lo! 'tis a gala night
Within the lonesome latter years!
An angel throng, bewinged, bedight
In veils, and drowned in tears,
Sit in a theatre, to see
A play of hopes and fears,
While the orchestra breathes fitfully
The music of the spheres.
Mimes, in the form of God on high,
Mutter and mumble low,
And hither and thither fly-
Mere puppets they, who come and go
At bidding of vast formless things
That shift the scenery to and fro,
Flapping from out their Condor wings
Invisible Woe!
That motley drama- oh, be sure
It shall not be forgot!
With its Phantom chased for evermore,
By a crowd that seize it not,
Through a circle that ever returneth in
To the self-same spot,
And much of Madness, and more of Sin,
And Horror the soul of the plot.
But see, amid the mimic rout
A crawling shape intrude!
A blood-red thing that writhes from out
The scenic solitude!
It writhes!- it writhes!- with mortal pangs
The mimes become its food,
And seraphs sob at vermin fangs
In human gore imbued.
Out- out are the lights- out all!
And, over each quivering form,
The curtain, a funeral pall,
Comes down with the rush of a storm,
While the angels, all pallid and wan,
Uprising, unveiling, affirm
That the play is the tragedy, "Man,"
And its hero the Conqueror Worm. |
yossie
Member
|
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 11:36 AM
My personal preference is to keep asking questions.
Sort of like the annoying 4 year-old's strategy: Keep asking "WHY?"
Reading-between-the-lines and seeing the story underneath (or at least indications of it) even when reading today's news stories, is a great way to guide your questions.
There is the outer 'news story' and then there is the hidden agenda below it.
The same thing happens with what we call history. What is NOT described, and what is NOT explored is often far more interesting, and is far more important to understanding what happened...
😊 |
Nobody
|
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 02:13 PM
An interesting link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/profiles/stravinsky.shtml |
Queen
|
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 04:00 PM
It had nothing to do with Communist propaganda:
President Truman's private journal and correspondence written at the time of the bombings
indicate that contrary to his public justification of the bombings as the only way to end
the war without a costly invasion of Japan, Truman had already concluded that Japan was
about to capitulate. Whether or not he was correct in this estimate of when the war would
end, the fact that he held this view at the time he made his decision to use the atomic
bombs is clearly set down in his own hand.
"I cannot speak for the others but it was ever present in my mind that it was important
that we have an end to the war before the Russians came in...Neither the President nor I
were anxious to have them (the Soviets) enter the war after we had learned of this
successful (atomic) test." (James Byrnes, Secretary of State 1945-47)
"Mr. Byrnes did not argue that it was necessary to use the bomb against the cities of Japan
in order to win the war...Mr. Byrnes view (was) that our possessing and demonstrating the
bomb would make Russia more managable in Europe." (Leo Szilard, Nuclear Physicist)
"The use of the atomic bombs was precipitated by a desire to end the war in the Pacific by
any means before Russia's participation. I'm sure if President Roosevelt had still been
there, none of that would have been possible." (Albert Einstein)
According to Admiral William D. Leahy, Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and President
Truman's Chief of Staff: "The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because
of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons... In
being the first to use it [the atomic bomb], we had adopted an ethical standard common to
the barbarians of the Dark Ages."
"It would be a mistake to suppose that the fate of Japan was settled by the atomic bomb.
Her defeat was certain before the first bomb fell." (Winston Churchill)
"The real purpose of building the bomb was to subdue the Soviets." (Gen. Leslie Groves,
chief of the Manhattan Project).
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/stowell/a-bomb.htm |
Queen
|
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 05:13 PM
People,I don't know from Adam(or Eve),but I went through the thread and found this:
"The issue about the nuclear bombing of Japan seems to be resolved... who cares??? No one, no debate or evidence anywhere can convince an idiot, like you, to see the light. Sure we developed the bomb and killed all those civilians JUST to show the Ruskies who's better! How STUPID!!! It was to end the war quickly with as few American casualties as possible... no question, no debate. If Japan had had it first they would have used it, so would have Germany. You're the whining wimp who was stating it's use was SO unhumanitarian!
You don't debate SHIT anyways... you're so ignorant that you wouldn't concede ANY point that wasn't your own! Proof in your face still wouldn't convince someone like you... you're comparable to what we call a "bible-thumper" so now all that matters is this... Do I care what you think? About ANYTHING?" |
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Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.
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