The Museum of Hoaxes
Q-Ray Performance Bracelet
Posted By:
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Jan 12, 2005
 I saw this "miracle bracelet", advertised on TV last night and just had to check out their website. With this device, you could win the Olympic marathon or a PGA title. But I wonder what would happen if all your competitors had one too? <a href="http://qray.ca" title="QRay">Qray</a>
Category: Fashion, Sports; Replies: 159

Comments
Page 1 of 3 pages  1 2 3 > 
The Curator
in San Diego
 Member
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 | 05:56 PM
First of all, I notice that it's 'ionized'. Therefore, it's got to work. 😖
But once everybody has an n-ray, they'll come out with z-rays. Those will be super-ionized.
Myst
Member
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 | 12:22 AM
Well Paul, if you buy him that premiere edition bracelet maybe he won't need his pills anymore. 😊
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 | 01:33 AM
The original Q-Ray bracelet ads from a few years back used to come closer to making medical claims for the worthless thing. I guess they got some static about that because the newer ads are considerably more vague about what the thing actually claims to do. It just somehow "enhances" performance or some nonsense like that.

I'd LOVE to know how wearing a bracelet helps you compete better. Oh, that's right--it's IONIZED! I forgot. Duh.
Yvonne
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 | 10:12 PM
I've seen bracelets just like this at Wal-mart for maybe $5... and I may have seen some at the Dollar Store for $1. It's just a couple magnets in the end pieces (I bought one, it didn't do anything that I could tell). I think the $5 ones came out before Qray, but don't quote me on that. I just remember there was a craze for magnets to fix everything, for a while. I had a BF who spent $60 on a magnetized shower head, for instance. I got the same (minimal) results by wrapping my own shower head in flexible magnet strip from the hardware store, which made him mad... and then he started having me read the "scientific info" on the supplements and gadgets he was thinking about buying. I felt a little strange, being someone's science advisor when I could remember so little from my science classes. I'm a bit of a hick, and he was definitely slumming when dating me. 😉

Drawing from my own/my friends' experiences, I would say some people get a benefit from magnet therapies, some do not, and it certainly doesn't require a $350 bracelet to do it. If a person is going to benefit, they will benefit just as much from the cheap magnets. Maybe the extra money is for that ionization label? ~ponders a $345 label~

(Whoohoo! My second post! Maybe I should go ahead and get an account and a screen name.)
JoeSixpack
Member
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 | 07:23 AM
The Amazing Randi (Randi.org) was talking about this a few years back. Aparrently it has a U.S. patent, so it's GOT to work. 😉
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 12:13 AM
Yvonne said:

"I just remember there was a craze for magnets to fix everything, for a while. I had a BF who spent $60 on a magnetized shower head, for instance. I got the same (minimal) results by wrapping my own shower head in flexible magnet strip from the hardware store, which made him mad..."

What "effect" did you perceive? No one has ever demonstrated under controlled conditions that there is any benefit from running water through a magnetic field.

"Drawing from my own/my friends' experiences, I would say some people get a benefit from magnet therapies, some do not, and it certainly doesn't require a $350 bracelet to do it. If a person is going to benefit, they will benefit just as much from the cheap magnets."

Have you considered that any "benefit" people may perceive from a magnetic bracelet might be imaginary? If you are unfamiliar with it, you might want to check into something called the "placebo effect. It's an interesting quirk of the human mind.
Hairy Houdini
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 12:28 AM
Yvonne: I'm a little intrigued by this BF/Magnetic shower head contest you have going on. Do I understand you correctly to say that the magnetic shower head gave you the same minimal results as your BF? Try putting the spray setting on Massage.
Yvonne
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 11:56 AM
To Cranky Media Guy--

I apoligize for the lack of specifics. Yes, the amount of improvement I received was approximately equal to placebo effect, which is why I haven't bothered putting magnets on my showerheads since then. I had a friend from the Fibromyalgia/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome support group who had much better results, which is why I was willing to try it at all. She went from being in danger of losing her job to being able to go dancing again. Several of us tried it because of her results (hey, I guess we all miss dancing!), but had quite varied levels of relief, from none at all up to great relief.

I realize this wasn't a scientific study, but I believe someone did a real study on magnets for back pain a few years ago and got the same "good for some, not for others" results. I think maybe half the subjects who received the magnets showed measurable improvement, so it won't be featured in medical school any time soon. I also realize that many people don't believe in Fibromyalgia (even among the ones who have heard of it), so my "testimony" is twice suspect. 😊

I hope my bad grammar hasn't made this worse.

To Hairy--
Maybe I should magnetize my boyfriend to combine the effects?
😜
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 01:15 PM
For maximal affect magnetize yourself and your boyfriend at the same time. Just make sure to align your North and South poles correctly or things could get rather embarassing.

:red:
JoeSixpack
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 03:17 PM
...or things could get rather embarassing.


Or interesting...
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 | 03:50 AM
Yvonne said:

"I had a friend from the Fibromyalgia/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome support group who had much better results, which is why I was willing to try it at all. She went from being in danger of losing her job to being able to go dancing again."

Yvonne, thank you for your thoughtful response. Thanks, too, for not jumping down my back for my semi-snotty posting.

Something to consider: were there other factors that *might* explain your friend's improvement? As far as I know, no one has ever showed that a magnetic field can do much of anything (good or bad) to water. I'm glad she's feeling better, but I suspect the magnets had nothing to do with it.
Yvonne
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 | 09:19 PM
Cranky Media Guy--

I think I shall have to give up hope of keeping my posts short, for a while.

OK, the lady who had good results didn't use the showerhead magnet. She magnetized her mattress pad and comforter, and it took a couple weeks to show any improvement. Her husband, a healthy/normal man, showed no effect that was ever mentioned. They made only the one change. Fibromites learn early on not to change more than one thing at a time during our constant search for pain relief, if only from our doctor's orders.

I have since moved to another state, so I don't know if anyone else from that support group received such good results. (My, what a good scientist I am! Leaving without follow-up!)

I never understood the part about magnetizing water, either, unless it affects dissolved iron particles. It certainly wouldn't matter to the H2O molecule. I think there was a gadget to magnetize fruit juice and coffee, too... but I shouldn't digress too far. (Yes, I was trying to get that BF to stop wasting his money on these things. I do not endorse or recommend magnets or "ionizing" or even drinking wheat juice for breakfast. He did that, too.)

My theory (meaning "I can't spell hypothesis on a regular basis") is that some people get a positive effect from their EMF sensitivity, and they are the ones who get better when they use magnets. Sensitivity to electromagnetic fields is another thing most people don't believe in, so this isn't liable to be tested any time soon. It's too vague and varies too much from person to person. For myself, I mostly just don't like standing next to electrical appliances, although I did get anemia while living in an apt right next to some power lines (about 5 feet from my window). I moved +1 month --> I wasn't anemic any more. Like I said, very vague. My doctor says I'm wierd, and I agree. 😉

OK, I think I've derailed enough this with my rambling. I'd better quit. Thank you for reading and not assuming I'm a random nutcase just because I've forgotten how to present a case logically or even smoothly. :cheese:
Yvonne
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 | 09:21 PM
"I think I've derailed enough this with my rambling"?

Hmm, I've forgotten how to speak English, too...
Redhead
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 | 06:38 AM
I just saw an ad for the Q-ray bracelets and was also curious...found this article done by a physician who debunked it pretty thoroughly..also explains why they no longer make ridiculous claims about their product...(the amazing ionic energy produced by LAWSUITS)...

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/qray.html
Steve
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 | 10:35 AM
I was interested in this "to good to be true" offer so I did some reading, the Q-Ray doesn't do anything. Look it up for yourself.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 | 03:23 AM
Steve said:

"I was interested in this "to good to be true" offer so I did some reading, the Q-Ray doesn't do anything. Look it up for yourself."

Well, I agree with you 100%; the Q-Ray doesn't do anything at all. What, however, are you suggesting people look up and where?
Brett
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 | 05:19 AM
Two people that I work with use these braclets. The one co-worker says he doesn't know if it really is doing anything or if it's all in his head, but claims that since wearing it that the pain in his shoulder is gone.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 | 05:50 PM
Brett said:

"Two people that I work with use these braclets. The one co-worker says he doesn't know if it really is doing anything or if it's all in his head, but claims that since wearing it that the pain in his shoulder is gone."

It's in his head.

Want to try an interesting experiment? Buy some cheesy bracelet that ISN'T advertised as having any "powers." Give it to your co-worker, telling him that it's "therapeutic." Tell him it's the New, Improved Q-Ray. Let him wear it for a week or so and ask how it's working.
MD
Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 | 01:43 AM
Personally I think that all of this magnetic massage stuff is a scam. I have a small background in the physics of magnetism, and I don't understand how it is they think these magnets are supposed to help! It is true that a moving magnet induces an electric current, so moving magnets across your body does induce a VERY small electric current, possibly generating a SMALL amount of heat (due to resistance). But take a AA battery! Touch both ends and you're getting the same thing! I think it's a bunch of crock.
AnneHillebrand
Member
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 | 01:51 AM
I've got magnets on my refrigerator and one of them is holding up a photo of my husband. And he weighs over 230 pounds! It's must be some kind of miracle or something.

Anne Hillebrand
Orlando, FL
Accipiter
Member
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 | 01:01 PM
Even if it is just a psychosomatic placebo effect (which I suspect it is), this magnetism craze can still apparently make some people feel better. The problem with that, though, is that it would most likely only help the person ignore the symptoms, not fix the actual problem causing the pain/fatigue/whatever. So even if you are using magnets and your chronically aching shoulder is feeling better, you still should check with a doctor to make certain that your arm isn't about to rot off. All the same, if somebody's desperate enough to spend lots of money to cover themselves in magnets, I'm not going to try to stop them. Maybe it will at least make them think that they feel better. I'll just make sure that they stay a minimum of 20 feet away from my computer and other electronics.

Which raises another interesting question: just how strong of a magnetic field do these magnet therapy things put out? I can imagine these companies who make them getting sued because someone accidentally fries their CPU with their magnetic shoes.
Molly
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 | 01:19 PM
Anne Hillebrand is my hero 😊
Mort
in Just left of centre
 Member
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 | 04:31 AM
And mine too now, legend....!
Diane
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 | 07:42 AM
I gotta admitt I have a son who can't stand being without his q ray. I have no idea why it works for him, but when he isn't wearing it he is unfocused and complains about pains almost everywhere. With the crazy bracelet (a $25.00 model I get off ebay) he feels great, concentrates in school and everthing. I hope he is o.k. today since I borrowed it this morning for a sore wrist I woke up with, now my wrist feels much better, but he will be lost at High School. About 1/2 my family physically can tell the difference when they put his on. The others don't feel a thing..... I don't know what it is, but $25.00 to keep him from complaining is a deal.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 08:40 AM
First of all, Cranky Media Guy, you're an idiot.

Whether people think the bracelets are placebo or not, why does it matter as long as the bracelets have helped them with their pain.

How do you know that the Q-Ray Bracelets do not work? Because it did not work on you? Did you have pain and actually tried the product? It's simple enough, go to a Golf store and ask someone if you can try it. And even if it does not work for you, does that mean it doesn't help others.

Tell me, does Tylenol work 100% to all people? Do you know of a cream, pill, surguery that works on every body? I am sick of all these skeptics that probably did not even experience the bracelets themselves bashing the bracelets.

Why do you think people are looking for other holistic approaches for pain relief. Because the traditional methods did not address their needs. Maybe a simple Ionized bracelet may meet those people's needs. So step off.

And there has been studies done on the Ionized Bracelets and Magnet Bracelets. In fact the Mayo Clinic study did a study with the Q-Ray bracelets that claimed that the Q-Ray Bracelets are no better than a Placebo effect. That you would get the same effects from a Q-Ray Bracelet than a Lance Armstrong rubber band.

What the Mayo does not tell the public is that the people who wore the Q-Ray bracelet, 78% of patients found pain relief. 74% of the patients that wore a placebo found pain relief. Mayo says, 4% is not statisically significant enough, so the bracelets must be a hoax. But ask the average Joe who is suffering from pain. Even though it may be a placebo effect, if you have 80% chance that your pain will be gone, would you take it?

In some cases medical doctors can't give you this assurance.

Look, there are many people out there that find pain relief from the bracelets, and you do them diservice by bashing the bracelets because A) you did not try the bracelet, or B) the bracelet did not work for you.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 09:11 AM
Jason, $80 minimum for a placebo? Do you not see that as fraud? Since it's a placebo why don't they sell them for $5? Obviously there's nothing special about them.

Tell you what, I have a $1000 placebo guaranteed to give you a 75% chance of pain relief. Why not take a chance and purchase it?

There are plenty of cheaper placebos out there. Try some PEZ, it works wonders.
Jason Cambell
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 09:47 AM
To Charybdis in Hell,

Fine, don't purchase a $80 placebo. As I wrote earlier, go to a Pro Shop/retailer shop that has the bracelets and try one on. People say that the bracelets work within a minute.

You go to a Pro-Shop, try a bracelet on, sit there for 1 minute and if you notice that your pain is gone, wouldn't that be worth $80 to you?

If it did not work for you, then you do not have to buy it.

Pain is such a subjective thing. A very bad pain for you might not be very bad for another person. So only you will know if the bracelets work.

The only thing you might have wasted in meeting your curiosity whether the product worked or not was walking over to a retail store that carries these magic bracelets.

Ok, for $80 you might be buying a placebo, but if your chronic pain (I am not talking about pulling a muscle) is gone, isn't it worth it?

Ok, maybe you think that you feel the placebo effect the first minute you put the bracelet on and is afraid the pain will come back when you leave the retailer. There are websites out there offering 30 day money back guarantee.

Is there anyone that tried the bracelet and did absolutely nothing for them?

Is there anyone that tried the bracelet and did wonders for them in chronic pain?

Charybdis, if you have a $1,000 placebo guaranteed to give me 75% pain relief. Send it to me for free. I will try it out. And if it does what you say it does, then I will send you a check for $1,000. How bout that?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 02:47 PM
Jason Campbell said:

"First of all, Cranky Media Guy, you're an idiot."

When you start off like that, I lose interest in talking to you. I have responses to what you say about Q-Ray but based on that opening sentence, you are now on my Do Not Respond list.

If anyone else would care to make the same points without the ad hominem attack, I will be happy to respond.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 04:46 PM
To Cranky Media Guy

"When you start off like that, I lose interest in talking to you. I have responses to what you say about Q-Ray but based on that opening sentence, you are now on my Do Not Respond list."

What are you, the comic book store owner from the Simpsons?

Anyway, many people found benefits from wearing the Q-Ray Ionized Bracelet. I will post their testimonials. It's public record at

http://www.ionic-health.com/qray_reviews/

To the people who gave their testimonials, the pain relief they get from Q-Ray is very real to them.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 05:32 PM
I could go on, but I won't.

People, you are smart. Don't take my word for it, and don't listen to those bashers like Cranky Media Guy.

You can try it for yourself and you be the judge on whether this is good or not. I bet half these bashers don't know what true chronic pain feels like or even tried the bracelets on themselves.

Just because the drug companies and medical doctors have a bias towards alternative medicine does not mean it does not work.

Ask any doctor that the gold standard for clinical testing is the Double Blind study. Well it is impossible to get the Double Blind Study in accupuncture because there are only so much accupressure points in the body. Even though their never was a Double Blind study for accupuncture, FDA accepts it. Why, I don't know, maybe because 3,000 years of Chinese Medicine Theory, which our so called doctors can not explain with tests, has shown people saying it helps with their pain.
Anne Hillebrand
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 | 09:19 PM
My degree is Accounting (B.S.)

We talked about ads, but nothing about hominems.

But when ya'll talk about Q Ray, and hominems, you better ask Dr. Ruth.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 10:03 AM
Jason, I removed your testimonials. The link you posted will suffice without swamping us with posts.

Testimonials from the company's website are meaningless. There's an extreme conflict of interest there and they aren't to be trusted. This applies to any website trying to sell a product, not just Ionic Health.

From the <a href="http://www.fda.gov/opacom/morechoices/mission.html">FDA's</a> website.

<i>The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health by assuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, medical devices, our nation
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 10:09 AM
Some news on Q-Ray in this week's commentary by James Randi. One of his readers reports on <a href="http://www.randi.org/jr/200509/093005good.html#3">Q-Ray</a>. Some highlights:

"the FTC took action against Q-Ray for deceptive claims of pain relief and sought consumer reimbursement for those who fell prey to the lie"

and this:

"As further incrimination, researchers at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL concluded a study in 2002 revealing no distinction between use of the Q-Ray and an identical placebo in relieving musculoskeletal pain. "
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 10:17 AM
A couple of FTC statements about Q-Ray.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/qtinc.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/05/maverick.htm

More at http://search.ftc.gov/query.html?qt="q-ray"
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 10:42 AM
Jason,

There is nothing in the evidence you presented that cannot be explained by the placebo effect. So what is the harm in this if the pain is relieved? Lots. What if someone's pain could be relieved by conventional proven medicine and they decide to pass up that treatment and use a placebo instead? There could be serious consequences for that person's health. Do you want to take responsibility for that?

No one is saying wearing a Q-Ray bracelet does not cause pain relief in some people. What is being disputed is whether or not Q-Ray' s claims about a magical product are true. The fact is they are not. If someone's pain cannot be relieved by conventional treatment, then perhaps there is no treatment for that condition at this time. That does not automatically mean products such as Q-Ray are real. It only means there is a market for fraudulent products for people with no other options. Companies like Q-Ray prey on these people by offering products with unproven claims. You are doing the public a disservice by giving Q-Ray any sort of credibility.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 12:06 PM
To Captain Al and Charybdis in Hell

You guys bring up some good points, but where should I start, the FDA or the FTC.

Let's start with FDA. I am an American and I love the USA. But do I blindly believe in the government and the FDA. Believe it or not, there is a Drug Industry out there. Drugs companies amount to approximately 14% of the US Gross National Product (GNP). That is a lot of money swung around which keeps FDA pro Drugs and anti-anything else. And millions of millions of dollars are spent on clinical studies, which is the reason drug costs are driven up. Joe public understands that there is an identical drug produced in Canada which the US drug companies are complaining to the FDA, because they had to foot the money for the clinical trials and the Canada drugs companies didn't so the cost of Canada drugs are cheaper. So FDA steps in to protect the US Drug companies to say the Canada drugs are "UNSAFE", even though they may be identical drugs.

There are approximately 106,000 deaths a year from non-error, adverse effects of medication. The big news was the those Arthritis drugs like Vioxx that killed 140,000 people by heart attacks. http://www.vioxx-center.com/

Vioxx was a drug that was approved by the FDA. It's no wonder more and more people are looking for alternative medicine. In the US, 36% of the population looks for some form of alternative medicine and the numbers increase over the years. There are more medical doctors who mix up alternative and traditional medicines because more and more patients are asking for them.

http://www.arthritis.org/resources/arthritistoday/2001_archives/2001_03_04_morethanmedicine.asp

So what does Q-Ray have to do with Alternative Medicine. Well Q-Ray is not your traditional drug that a doctor perscribes.

I do not want to sound like the Natural Cures guy. All I am saying is that let's not be naiive in thinking that the all mighty FDA is not influenced by these drug companies.

Is the FDA more interested in saving people's lives or help the Drug economy. That is the big question. If the FDA and the drug companies had their way, accupuncture would be illegal in this country.

Ok, for the FTC. Let me read the links you provide and gather up my thoughts.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 12:14 PM
Let me clarify a point:

"So what does Q-Ray have to do with Alternative Medicine. Well Q-Ray is not your traditional drug that a doctor perscribes."

What I mean to say here is that there are things are items out there that may not have been proven to the FDA, but that does not mean it does not work. The Arthritis Today article goes into this.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 05:24 PM
Before I dive into the FTC, doesn't anyone believe that a verdict should be made before any judgement is given. I thought we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Or are we saying that if the almightly FTC bashes a product, it must be true and they must be guilty.

FTC vs Q-Ray.

Charybdis, thanks for the link.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/qtinc.htm

Because this is on the FTC website, the information is going to be one sided. For any of you non attorneys that do not know what a Exparte TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) is, it is the biggest bat that this government agency has. It is a power that the FTC has abused over and over again, but nobody seems to notice, and frankly I am surprised this is allowed in the US. It is like Nazi Gestapo. A TRO is where the FTC can go in front of the judge without a person or a company present to defend themselves in court, and convince (or lie) to the judge that this person or company is a scammer or a flight risk. And if the judge agrees to the TRO, the FTC has the power to freeze the person's bank account, paralyzing a person or entity from access to any money they have in their bank account. In this case, the FTC went after the company bank account and as well as the owner
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 05:29 PM
Charybdis, you wrote:

"Testimonials from the company's website are meaningless. There's an extreme conflict of interest there and they aren't to be trusted. This applies to any website trying to sell a product, not just Ionic Health."

Fine, but at least give Diane credit for what she wrote in this messageboard on 9/21/05.

Also have you noticed that the Mayo Clinic does not want to touch their study with a 100 foot pole? You go to Mayo Clinic website and look for the actual study, you can not find it anywhere. You can find the exerpts, but not the study itself. Isn't that odd to you?

If someone finds the actual study, please let me know the link.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 06:19 PM
Jason,

People and companies are innocent until proven guilty but scientific claims are not. It is up to Q-Ray to prove what they claim is true and they have not done this. That is why they attracted the attention of the FTC. They also were not honoring their product's warranty.

I'm sure you agree having some kind of consumer protection against fraudulent products is a good thing. The FTC needs some kind of authority to carry out its work. Even so, they still need to get a judge to sign off on it. It works like a search warrent, unless you don't agree with those either. I'm sure the FTC makes mistakes, but I'll bet it works 99.9% of the time. There are millions of companies operating without TRO's. That's because they have legitimate products and services. Why shouldn't Q-Ray be held to the same standard?

To compare the FTC to the Gestapo is a slap in the face of democracy. After all, we can elect a government to disband the FTC. Try that in Nazi Germany. If you feel the FTC is conspiring against certain industries for their own benefit, that is a matter for a higher authority. Write to your elected representitive. You had better have proof though. And you had better wait until the verdict on Q-Ray is in.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 06:46 PM
Captain Al

Why are you so intent, or don't want to believe that a Q-Ray Bracelet is legitimate?

As I posted earlier, did you ever try on the bracelet before you decided to knock it on this board, assuming you suffer from chronic pain?

Who are you to say a product is legitimate or not, assuming you have not tried the product. Or anyone for that matter.

470 people who participated in the Mayo study said they found relief, and they have chronic pain.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 07:14 PM
Great timing! James Randi has some new stuff about Q-Ray on his website:

http://randi.org/jr/200509/093005good.html#3

Enjoy!
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 09:27 PM
Jason,

It doesn't matter what I want to believe. All I care about is whether or not the Q-Ray bracelet does what they claim. I don't care if 470,000,000 people found relief. That could be explained by the placebo effect. Personal anecdotal evidence means nothing.

I fully admit I have not tried this product. I am fortunate in that I don't suffer from chronic pain. But suppose I did try it and it did not work. Many people have complained to the FTC that Q-Ray will not honor their guarantee. That does not help their credibility.

My belief is based on Q-Ray's explanation of how the product works. They talk about positive and negative energy as well as ionization. The human body does not have positive and negative energy. And ionization has no bearing on pain. Those are medical facts that cannot be disputed. Therefore there is no scientific basis for the Q-Ray bracelet and no reason for me to support them in any way.

If Q-Ray gives you relief from chronic pain when nothing else will, then I am happy for you. It is not my intent to spoil that. All I am trying to say is the product does not work as claimed. If that might destroy the effect for you, I suggest you don't read this forum because that is what we do here.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 09:33 PM
A contribution from Cranky Media Guy!

Thanks, I am corrected. The Mayo Study showed 409 patients instead of 470 patients that found pain relief from wearing the Q-Ray Ionized Bracelets.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2002-rst/1528.html

"The study authors say that although their goal was not to assess the effectiveness of placebos, their results did support the benefit of placebos in the treatment of pain. They also note that 80 percent of the 409 participants who answered an initial survey question about the use of ionized bracelets stated they believed the bracelets can reduce joint or muscle pain."

Somehow Mayo people seems to think that there is a bracelet where 80% of people benefiting because of a placebo effect.

I don't know if you guys want to get into debate about placebos, but don't you think there is something there with the bracelets when 409 people with chronic pain found pain relief, and it happens to be 80% of the study population... anybody??

Don't you find it odd that you can have a placebo effect so high? Anyone dare to try a study with 610 patients with chronic pain with PEZ?

Captain Al, what proof do you want to see that shows that the Q-Ray Bracelet helps people with chronic pain? Would it be as simple as asking 10 people who wears the bracelets if the bracelets have helped with their chronic pain? Say 8 out of 10 people says yes, would that be enough?

Or a rubber stamp from the FDA? Do not quote me on this, but I believe it took FDA 40 to 50 years before they said ok to accupuncure. Even though it has been practiced for 3,000 years. And were those accupuncturists crooks because they practiced accupuncture without FDA's stamp? If so, humanity missed out.

I read your links, and everyone is making fun of chi, ying-yang. Even though Western Medicine does not understand chi and ying-yang (I do not know if there is a method to measure chi), does that mean it does not exist, and people poke fun at it?

Captain Al writes:
"No one is saying wearing a Q-Ray bracelet does not cause pain relief in some people. What is being disputed is whether or not Q-Ray' s claims about a magical product are true."

What exact claims that Q-Ray made about the product is out-rageous?

That the bracelet relieves chronic pain?

If anything else, Q-Ray has worked for me, and I have seen it work on many of my friends. And that is my experience. Your experience may differ, but this is my experience.
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 09:46 PM
Captain Al writes:

"If Q-Ray gives you relief from chronic pain when nothing else will, then I am happy for you. It is not my intent to spoil that. All I am trying to say is the product does not work as claimed. If that might destroy the effect for you, I suggest you don't read this forum because that is what we do here."

I did not mean to spoil your party. At least my thoughts and comments were not filtered anyway.

If you guys are still convinced that this is black and white and did not in anyway make you think that this is not clear cut, the I wish you gents well.

Enjoy your Q-Ray bashings. Au Revoir
Jason Campbell
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 | 09:52 PM
Oh, before I leave, there were couple posts about Magnets earlier. The British Medical Journal published a study called "Randomised controlled trial of magnetic bracelets for relieving pain in osteoarthritis of the hip and knee".

Here is the link.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1450?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=magnet&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1128138783369_19215&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 12:31 AM
Once you have called something a "placebo," you are saying that the actual object/pill/whatever has no power in and of itself to cure a disease or relieve the symptoms of one. What you are saying is that it could be anything else, so long as the user/wearer believes that it has such power.

If the Mayo Clinic is calling Q-Ray a placebo, that's what they're saying. It could just as easily have been a Tic-Tac or an "ionized headband" or anything else.
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 | 03:25 PM
Jason,

I've been going over the study on magnetic pain relief bracelets in the link to the British Medical Journal you provided. Although Q-Ray bracelets claim to use other methods (positive/negative energy, ionization) to achieve pain relief, these magnetic products are an excellent example of how we should judge alternative medical treatments.

I noticed that even the authors are not sure what to make of their own study as indicated by the following three statements:

"We found evidence of a beneficial effect of magnetic wrist bracelets on the pain of osteoarthritis of the hip and knee."

"Our study has not entirely resolved the extent to which the effect of magnetic bracelets is specific or due to placebo."

"...we cannot be certain whether our data show a specific effect of magnets, a placebo effect, or both"

One inherent problem with a study on magnetic bracelets is preventing the subjects from knowing who have the magnetic bracelets and who have the placebos. Those that had the magnetic bracelets could usually tell because they would attract car keys, pins, etc. That made it hard to ensure the knowledge was not affecting their survey answers.

The best part however was the reader responses at the end of the article. This is the essential "peer reviewed" part we always talk about. Since this publication is mirrored on the Internet, responses were not edited or limited to other researchers. Even so it makes interesting reading. Those who responded were a mixture of other researchers, people who sold magnetic pain relief products and people who used magnetic pain relief products. It reads alot like this forum even to the point of someone saying, "Don't knock it until you've tried it".

The responses from those that sell these kind of products can mostly be discounted, for obvious reasons. This point was driven home by one doctor who said, "There is a sucker born every minute and at least three 'entrepreneurs' to attend them."

Personally I put the most weight on the responses from other researchers. They were quite critical about the methodology of this study. This is a sample of what they had to say:

"The correct conclusion from this data is that the attempt to blind treatment has failed and therefore the results are invalid."

"I cannot imagine why such an inconclusive and flawed study should be published at all. There is such a cavalier attitude to possible co-factors and the obviously flawed blinding that the entire study should have been disqualified."

"...the individuals enrolled in the trial will have known they might receive real or dummy magnets and it is quite likely that many will have concealed testing or noticing magnetism in order to tell researchers what they believed they wanted to hear."

"Sir, I am amazed that your journal has published such a paper, and then responses from manufacturers of magnets, with obvious conflicting interests that encourage large numbers of arthritis patients to spend more money on completely unproven methods of pain relief."

I recommend reading the whole study if you are considering using these types of products.
It works
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 | 12:16 PM
Hello
I am one of those people who was a skeptic about the Q-ray , till last year i has a back injury ,
Taken pain killers , chro , anti flammitory , etc
Some would bring some relief .
4 hour at at best .
Suffered 10 mths , till one day i came home , and my dauthers boyfriend was there ,( not what i needed to have when i was in pain with little patiance ))
It was my daugther idea , he had a Q-ray on , she told me to try it on .
Why not i,ll amuse her , they can have the laugh i thought .
Well with in 5 minutes the pain was completely gone , i keep it for a week . what i notice , that nite i could not sleep , not from pain which i usally had , but from what felt like i had 2 cups off coffee , ( i do not drink coffee ) nor had any caffeen drinks soda drinks , etc .
I had to take it off .
but used the Q-ray Daily ,
I was nice To be pain free for a whole week , where as i get 2 days at best, of little pain.
So i bought one . I ,ll admit i was shy of wearing one , keep it out of site of my co-workers .
And like yourselves was thought this was Quakery .

As for the placebo effect , will i tried with 3 other people i knew , who are still pain suffers
Mother in-law 66 yr old who has artritus and is old school , i place it on her left arm , and she was amazed the pain was gone after 10 mins , and she bought one .
Wife aunt , same thing , had never heard of the Q-ray , tried it last nite , also 10 mins pain was gone . she may buy one but was shocked of the price , told her add the cost of the drugs you taken in a year ? $80.00 is not that bad .
Another Friend heard of it , but like me ,seen it as a rip off , and was amazed .

I understand your Doubts about it,,
As it does not work for evey one ,and as for the Neg, pos ENERGY , chi and che ????

Only thing i can say we are Biomechanical , biochemial beings , ECG can pick up impulses.

It may have something to do with simulating your endorphins naturally ?

All i know it works ,and do not have to worry of drug built up in my organs

The only reason a person may try to shoot this product down ,
Money or have shares in a drug company , after all it is a Billion dollar market.
Many Good , others Not .
But Some ,if they could ,would charge you for the air you breath. they got us at drinking water .

food for thought 😊
Alex Haines
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 | 08:01 AM
Jason,

You sound like you work for the company

Q-rays are definately fraudulant because my brother always wears one and talks about how great it is so one day a swiched his with one i got at a dollar store and he still said it was helping him.
Barrie Brown
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 | 09:26 PM
Some years ago (maybe 10 or more) I was sent to a sports clinic following surgery for tennis elbo and one of the things they tried was to sit me in a PLASTIC chair and they had this "ring" that was an electromagnet they put around my torso (with my arms inside) to "stimulate healing". At the time I remember thinking, "What a crock! Next they'll be waving dead chickens in my face; what a bunch of witch doctors these guys are!". THEN THEY FLIPPED THE SWITCH... Wow! Holy S**T! After 2 minutes I begged them to turn it off! I was totally disoriented, dizzy, sweating bullets and felt like I'd just ridden the worlds most scary roller coaster! I tried to stand but couldn't! I felt like a wet dish towel. To those who think that magnetic radiation waves don't do anything to the human body, check out your local sports clinic and you'll change your mind. As for the nausia, I think they just had the settings too high, and I can appreciate that a Q-Ray (or any similar weak "permanent magnet") would have much less strength than the powerful clinical electro-magnet they used on me.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Sunny
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 | 03:07 PM
Greetings - I stubbled across this site while doing some research on magnetized water - and thought I would add to this conversation. I would like to say that I've been using magnets for about 2 months now. I have a magnetic mattress pad ($500 - MY cost) and I also have a magnetic brick that magnetize my water. If one wants to achieve successful results, then one must invest money in a reputable company that sells top quality magnetic products. These bracelets, etc that they sell at Wal-Mart and pharmacies are obviously inexpensive enough to take many to the cleaners. And personally, that $350 bracelet made me raise my brow! The keyword you want to remember when shopping for magnetic products is the 'effective rating' or another word is gauss. The higher the gauss, the better product you have. This is one thing that you don't want to go cheap on - it is something that you defintiely better do your homework online - gather your data - and then make a sound decision! Please, stay away from the el cheapo 'wannabe' products. There IS a difference! Hmmm - here is a fact to ponder - and it's be proven (do your homework and research!) - a good quality magnet will shrink a tumor - keyword SHRINK - not perform magic and get rid of - but will SHRINK a tumor. And another thing to remember about magnets is that they are not a 'cure-all' - you've gotta eat healthy too! I've heard and read some amazing results from others using magnetic products. Afterall, if I had not, Isure wouldn't haven't invested my hard earned $$$$$ to buy a hoax product!! 😊 Thanks for reading - I hope you all will research and know the facts that you are giving to others. I know I did. Have a groovy day and good health to you all. 😊
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 | 04:57 PM
Sunny, you are engaging in wishful thinking here. There is NO scientific evidence that any magnetic product you can buy commercially (no matter its gauss rating) is effective in the treatment of any medical condition.

No offense, I'm sure you're a lovely person, but you are EXACTLY the kind of consumer I would hope to encounter if I was selling some form of quackery. You have convinced yourself that the more expensive quack items are the "real thing" whereas the cheap stuff is worthless. I can't think of a better way to pick your pocket semi-legally.
Jeff Norris
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 | 09:37 AM
Jason Campbell,

Hi Buddy,

I have just recently, after many long years in development, released my 'Magic Weeney Enlargement Device.' It weighs less than 23 pounds, fits snuggly to the head of your penis (via a patent-pending stainless steel vise-like clamping mechanism), and results can be seen in as little as 30 days by wearing the device for as little as 10 hours per day. Please visit my website at 'www.WeFlyByNight.com' to order yours today.

Optional carrying case, velvet-lined suspenders and vagina-lined (simulated) 'Weeney-Cover' sold seperately.

No warranty expressed or implied (other than we guarantee to not respond to emails, answer any phone calls, or make any refunds)
Jeff Norris
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 | 10:07 AM
Ooooops, almost forgot (just to keep the lawyers happy).

Some side-effects may include, but not limited to:

Severe Pain
Permanent Penis Damage
Public Ridicule
'WeeWee Only Points South Syndrome'
Numerous, random and unauthorized bank card deductions
Impotentance
The feeling of a large, rigid object in rearend

Individual Results May Vary

Please check out other items including:

'Dr. B's Magic Booby Butter'-practically guaranteed to enlarge the breasts, male or female (2) cup sizes with only (1) application and in less that (1) hour!! (Do not use near open flames)

'Larry's Eternal Life Elixir'-Study is ongoing, but we have test subjects that have lived for over 10 years while taking this revolutionary new product
mrotto
Member
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 | 09:57 PM
LOL!!!!That post just made my day,too funny ,laughter is actually the greatest medicine...my back ache is now magically gone,thanks Jeff!!
That Jason Campbell guy is not only a client but is the owner of company(I think)what a moron!
zim
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 | 02:10 PM
i have heard the same thing from 3 different people i know over the past 3-4 years.... i made unmerciful fun of them.... they still wear them... these guys say it helps with aches in their hands..... i dont know but as one told me, so what it something or nothing, if i think it helps then why do you care?
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
 Member
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 | 05:10 PM
zim,

Some people wear these "miracle bracelets" and get pain relief. That we can't deny. The question being debated is whether or not the bracelet has anything to do with it.

We should care because Q-Ray and others may be making false claims about their products. That is illegal. If these claims are false and we let them go unchallenged, some people may assume they really work and forgo conventional proven treatments which could make their condition worse. Even if no conventional treatment is available, at least we have kept them from wasting their money.
Kokushibyou
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 04:18 PM
Greetings all

I saw one of the commercials for the 'magic' Q-Ray Ionized Braclet, and thought I would look up some things about it and came across this forum.

Now I will not say I suffer from cronic pain, (in my opinion) but I do suffer from bad knees. This basically means that every now and then, one of both of my knees lock up, and I collaps in a fit of pain. This is very inconvenient and often painful, but my opinion of it is to DEAL with it. I have had physical examinations done, so I know what the issue is and I probably will have to have serious sergury in a few years.

In my opinion, it is far better to try and deal with the issue as it is, rather then to hide behind some drug or product that may or may not be 'proven' (and I use that word strongly) to relieve pain. I find that every time I have a lock up, if I just sit or lay down for several minutes and let the pain run through its course, the next time is much easier on me.

I know I went off on a little tandom here, and I do not expect in any way for anyone to accept or even agree with my methods. I just wish to make the point that 'cronic' pain is only what we let it be. (In my opinion) If others feel that using a drug or product to relieve the pain is worth it, then that is their business, and have every right to it. If they use them only because someone told them it would work, and did not look into it for themselves first, then I see that as troubling since it leaves them open for dishonest people to try and take advantage of them. (which has more then often worked and I have had previous job experience to see it for myself)

PS: For those like Jason Campbell, and others who adamently defend any 'unconclusevaly proven' product or drug, mearly because it 'works', I will not bother to argue with. You have made your opinion, and will use anything you can find to defend it, so I at least thank you for reading my OPINION, but please do not use me to further attempt to convince others.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 | 05:37 PM
Kokushibyou, let me start by saying that I'm truly sorry that you live with chronic pain. It must be very difficult for you. Having said that, I have to add that I think it's unconscionable for the Q-Ray people to take money from people like you by implying that their product can help.

I don't know if you've noticed this, but the current Q-Ray ads are VERY non-specific about what the bracelets are supposed to "do." They talk about "general wellbeing" and so forth. That has no real meaning; after all, a nice new tie *could* give some people a sense of "general wellbeing."

There's a reason the Q-Ray advertising is the way it is these days. They got into trouble several years back for implying that the bracelets had some curative power. The government took exception with that (as it should) and ordered them to take any such claims out of the ads. Does that tell you anything about the product and the people behind it?
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 Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.