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Maegan
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 | 08:59 AM
Umm...
Every hoax isn't a matter of "beleive". Lots of things can be proven wrong beyond any reasonable doubt. The reason religion doesn't fall into the 'hoax' category is because you can't disprove faith. And yes, there have been some religions, like Heaven's Gate, who are "out there", but based on their own faith & belief there religion was not a hoax. But when a photo has been chopped up and put thru the works & can be proven false, then you have a hoax.
Besides, what the hell does "established religion" mean? Established is relative. |
Nick
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 | 11:40 AM
indeed. the suggestion that Christianity is a hoax is an odd one- i myself am no Christian but can tell you with some certainty that the first Christian Church emerged at Ephesus and was fully established by 130AD. Before then 'Christianity' as it is has become known, was a sect within Judaism, just as were the Scribes and Pharisees. The breakaway only came due to their persecution- were it not for one hell of a marketing campaign it would have fizzled out pretty sharpish.
And sort out your grammar for Christ's sake |
Billy-bob
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 | 11:44 AM
You could say that about any religion though, couldn't you. Bush is a religous man. Does that help with his decision making processes in the USA, or hinder? |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 | 12:17 PM
Right, hoaxes are deliberate deceptions... which is why I've never classified any religious belief as a hoax, even though there are some really, really odd ones. Of course, sometimes the beliefs are so odd that you've got to wonder if the people are joking or not, then I'll put them on the site. |
Matt
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 | 12:58 PM
What, exactly, do you mean by "an established religion?" While it was not "established" by law until Constantine, and was not particularly common for its first couple hundred years, there is quite a lot of evidence that Christianity is as old as it claims to be. There are surviving Christian manuscripts from the 100's. Even secular historians generally believe that the Gospels were written around 70-100 AD, and Paul's letters were written earlier than that. There are also historical records, such as Josephus, mentioning that somebody named Jesus led a religious movement at the time.
It is true that we aren't sure of exactly when Jesus was born or died. Even the strictest fundementalists I've met will admit that Jesus almost certainly wasn't born on December 25th, and that the guy who established our modern system of years probably picked the wrong one for when Jesus was supposed to have been born. However, there are enough references to known historical figures that it's possible to make relatively good guesses.
If a religion claims that it was founded by a particular man, and there is good evidence it came into being about the same time they claim this man lived, the rational thing to conclude was that there really was a man by that name and that he founded that religion. This doesn't mean one has to accept any claims that the religion really was divinely inspired, but insisting the founder wasn't a real person without some pretty good evidence is best left to paranoid conspiracy theorists. I've got to wonder if members of other religions have to deal with people insisting that Mohammed, Confucious, Zoraster, or Buddha never existed. Even though I'm a Christian, I have no problem believing these guys were all real people. |
Nick
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 | 07:00 PM
the question of whether or not Jesus actually lived and preached is one that is never raised in theological circles. ever. it is a historical fact that a man named Jesus with a brother John, father Jospeh and mother Mary came from Nazareth, preached, and was crucified at Golgotha. sorry if i seem to be labouring this point, but this is a conspiracy theory too far. |
mr man
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Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 | 09:10 AM
Exactly. Now, Scientology, THERE's a Fucking HOAX! |
Jack
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 | 09:53 PM
Okay, so we've established that Christianity was first "established" around 130 c.e. But I want all you Christians out there to think about this: Chrisitianity became its separate Church just 100 years after Jesus died. Now, just think of something like that today. Imagine, 50 more years from now, that a religions surrounding Gandhi was founded. Gandhi was just as peaceful, if not more, than Jesus. So why is it improbably that there will be a Gandhi religion? Because back then, people (more so than today) depended more on mythology and story telling. One guy says that Jesus leaped across a pond, the next guy says he jumped across the lake in one step, and pretty soon, Jesus is walking on the water. It's all a telephone game. We just can't do that anymore nowadays; we're too factual to create another religion. |
Hobbes
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 | 10:03 PM
You have all of these contradictions to the faith, and no one believes them. Take this for example:
When the revised editoin of the King James bible came out, all the open-minded, good-willed, moral Christians had an old fashioned book buring fest. Why? Because of one verse. Instead of calling the mother of Jesus a "virgin", the bible called the mother of Jesus a "young woman". Older and more accurate biblical scripts had been found, calling the Mother Mary a "young woman". These texts were in Hebrew; the language in which they were originally inscribed. Why the difference? When the Hebrews translated the bible into Greek, the word for "young woman" was mistranslated as the word for "virgin". If the Hebrews really wanted to call the Mother Mary a virgin, they would have used a completely different word. I'm told by my religious affluents that I just need to have faith, but you know what? I'm not going to follow the peripheral route to persusasion, you shouldn't either; think for yourselves. |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 | 11:29 PM
That's an interesting question. Could a major religion like Christianity be founded today? I'd say, definitely. Consider how many religions only date back to the 19th century: Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh day adventists. Christianity has long been splintering apart into different sects (consider that Christianity was originally a Jewish sect). So any one of those could easily develop into a major world religion. |
penelope
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 | 03:37 PM
People need something to belive in. Everyone has hopes and dreams, im sure evryone out there wouldn't mind winning the lottery every now and then so, this is a dream. Who cares i think its important that peoiple are kind to each other and if christ is the "excuse" then so be it.
Penelope 14 |
Joe
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 | 10:26 AM
Can a religion be founded today??? Of course a religion can be founded today!!! This is easily proven.
My religion is called...hmmm, lets go with awesomism. there... a new religion. |
Lothar Ignatius
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 | 01:20 PM
If awesomism is a non-violent religion than you can count me in! |
BugbearSloth
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 | 02:17 PM
Jack says, "we're too factual to create another religion". Not so. Just check out Toby Alexander in the DNA Perfection thread. There are many neo-theological things developing around Toby and the other people promoting this. The whole "New Age" thing is basically a construction of religious beliefs and at least a partial rejection of Christianity in its current form.
What about the diefication of Elvis following his death? I can see the "Reformed Church of Elvis" being established in the next 50 years.
I don't consider religion a hoax as much as I consider it a con (confidence game). A few people usurp financial and political power from many. Jesus was strongly against organized religion because of this. And look to what his life has led to... |
Nick
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 | 05:27 PM
does awesomism worship awesomeness in general or is it specific to something particularly awesome? in any case, im so in! |
Niki
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 | 06:21 PM
So it's not possible for another religion to be establish in this day and age because people rely on facts and not myths...right Jack? And Christianity was based more on myths and stories. So why not try to prove that Christianity is not real? if you look you'll not only find out it is. But you'll also see that even other religions like Judaism, Mormonism, Hindu, and Buddaism all acknowledge that Jesus was real. |
Rex D.
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Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 | 06:20 PM
If a person had an accident which caused permanent damage to the "God Module" located on the frontal lobe of the brain, would they no longer be able to even understand the word God, or anything theological for that matter. What if God doesn't exist and the idea of God is a glich in our thought processes due to the presence of the "God Module", which is not a beliefe I subscribe to, but that's apparently what the latest research is saying about God and the God Module. Is that a pointless question to even ask? Are we ever going to have proof beyond a doubt that God/Gods exist? I doubt it.
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BugbearSloth
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 | 12:03 AM
Nick: Awesomism is specific to the awesomeness that emanates from Strong Bad. |
Stephen
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 | 12:54 PM
The hebrew word for Virgin translates to Young woman or something. I do believe most of the KJV is a hoax and re worded. God apparently said himself that he was not an Author of confusion.....so apparently man made the book confusing. Even for an educated person, the bible is hard to follow and Only the preist were allowed to view the bible....They were the ones that ran every thing. |
Anomaly88
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 | 12:15 PM
Religion apparently is needed to hold together very fragile mind set of humans beings. Because dying and not going anywhere after death can be hard to swallow for some. Thus enters the religious and political concepts that govern our global society. Image if all people realized that after life there is nothing else. No hell or no heaven; you just die and thanks for a wonderful or not so wonderful life. |
Maegan
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 | 01:25 PM
...just to clarify here. Religion and Faith are not the same thing. |
Maegan
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 | 01:27 PM
Religion: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
Faith: (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
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Mark-n-Jen
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 | 06:47 PM
We're with Penelope who stated something like that if it inspires people to get along and treat each other w/ some respect and dignity... what the heck we're all for it! Something needs to help control the behaviour of our incredibly ignorant species! As for anyone who would doubt the actual existence of Jesus... the Romans kept VERY maticulous records. Records that are still in existence today... and indeed a man named Jesus, brother John, parents Mary and Joseph, from Nazareth was crucified in order to try and quell the christian uprising. Whether or not he was actually a messiah of virginal birth and the son of God or just a well meaning, enlightened man who was ahead of his time so to speak isn't for me to say definatively one way or the other... but he did indeed exist. There's factual proof of that... |
vlad
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 | 11:11 AM
Looking at google for "religion founded by woman". the first hit?:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.bible.ca/tongues-women-usurp.htm&e=747
christianity looks like a mind trap for those who follow authority.
found some other interesing links with this search (like struggle of yugoslavian women in 1990s).
what I noticed that religions are founded mainly by men... |
David
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 | 08:28 AM
I find more credibility in the polytheistic religions that dominated ancient rome, greece egypt, south america, scandinavia et al. long before the monotheistic religions became commonplace.
it makes more sense to me that "should" there be an almighty presence lording it over us, that it's a multitude of entities with different agendas and raisons d'etre.
I just think its a shame that jehovah/allah/god won....(which is evident by its/his/His current dominance) |
Peeps
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 | 03:03 PM
why do people post stuff like this? we've all heard this argument 100 times. those who believe continue to believe, those who don't continue not to. this is just a sad attempt for attention by some college dropout trying get people riled up. while i can't believe i fell for it, i'm glad someone in their early 20's (yitzie99 as in class of 1999, how unique) has this whole religion thing figured out, i'll sleep a lot better tonight. thanks. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 | 01:03 PM
Maybe they were born in 1899.
Maybe their birthdate is 9 September.
Maybe he tried 98 other screen names, before trying this one.
I don't understand why there is ever any argument over religion or faith. Some believe it. Some don't. Just like some people might want onions on their burger, some people don't. Pushing someone to believe opposite is not going to work. They have to want to deviate on their own. |
Hairy Houdini
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 | 01:12 PM
Thou Shalt Have No Onion Before Me. Honor Thy Burger And Fries, and Covet Not Thy Neighbor Thick Frosty Shake. Not hard to tell that you post before lunch, Maegan. Tell us: were there many people at Mickey D's or was it really Not One Damn Happy Meal Day in MacDonald Land too? I have a large and extensive Happy Meal Toy collection, myself. I believe that the ruin of the American Economy is directly related to the exclusive contracts the MacDonald's Corp. has given to China for the Happy Meal Toys. Thou Shalt Not Make Hot Wheels. |
Nick
in Merrie Olde Englande
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 | 02:46 PM
the faith/lack of- argument will always rage because neither side can ever understand the position of the other. arguments like this reflect mankind's conflict between logic and faith, which will never ever cease. sorry. |
Frankus
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 04:11 AM
FUCK YOU.
JUST BEACUASE THERE IS NO "REAL" PROOF OF GOD AND JESUS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE NOT THERE.
Why does every one not love god.
Oh well, some day you'll PAY |
Boo
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 06:05 AM
Ahhh, Frankus.
That's a great Christian attitude.
What would Jesus say? |
Myst
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 | 08:42 PM
Ah yes a loving god who forces people to love him with the threat of paying for it in hell if you don't. Now that is unconditional love...... |
MAXWELL
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 02:33 AM
RELIGION IS A SET OF RULES AND REGULATIONS BINDING YOU
BUT IT WOULD BE ONLY IF YOU HAVE A PERSONAL FRIENDSHIP WITH GOD THAT YOU TRULY WILL HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT CHRISTIANITY. |
MAXWELL
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 02:40 AM
THE REASON WHY THIS ARGUMENT HAS COME ABOUT SO MANY TIMES "PEEPS" IS BECAUSE SATAN IS TRYING TO DISCOURAGE THE WEAK OF FAITH IT ISN'T ALWAYS THAT BELEIVERS CARRY ON BELEIVING BECAUSE OF THIS. |
MAXWELL
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 02:41 AM
BY THE WAY BOO EVEN THOUGH FRANKUS DID SWEAR GOD SAYS THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION AND IF HE IS SORRY FOR IT THEN HE WILL ASK FOR FORGIVNESS |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 02:46 AM
:roll:
He might not condemn you for typing in all caps, or using no punctuation, either.
But I do. |
MAXWELL
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 03:47 AM
Look, I can use punctuation and keep it out of caps lock but it was faster to keep it in one case.
P.S. Only GOD can judge me so please leave my faults alone.
yours sincerely mwaa |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 03:59 AM
You know what? You seem so much more intelligent than you did before, just by typing more slowly. It's like magic.
PS I think you'll find that I can judge you, along with everyone else. You don't have to respect that judgement, but it doesn't stop it happening.
Good old free will, eh?
Mwaa. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 04:59 AM
Ahh..brining up old threads to make a point that has already been made. Free will.
:roll: |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 | 05:15 AM
Directed at me or him, Maegan?
I just answered him... |
MAXWELL
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 | 02:15 AM
AS A CHRISTIAN I REFUSE TO ARGUE ON THIS ANY FURTHER
YOURS SINCERELY
MAX 😏 |
Boo
in The Land of the Haggii...
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 | 02:32 AM
Haha!
Classic. |
dfstuckey
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 | 05:04 AM
Oh rubbish.
The biggest hoax in history is the Masada suicide story. Even Plutarch tried to debunk it when it was being first told.
Christianity exists and has external references. Compare that to the LDS or Dianetics - Well, has anyone else seen Gonhorra or Xemos, hmmmm?
Gee, I need some sleep. |
Rod
in the land of smarties.
Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 | 07:33 AM
"AS A CHRISTIAN I REFUSE TO ARGUE ON THIS ANY FURTHER
YOURS SINCERELY
MAX"
Translation: "Screw you guys, I'm goin home!" |
Theoryofadead man
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 01:17 PM
I wish everyone would debunk Christianity for what it truly is: a murderous, corrupt, hypocritical, selfish, greedy institution. Millions have been killed over religion and, may I ask, when will it stop? When will people realize that life has no after-life |
X
in McKinney, TX
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 01:35 PM
I'm not one that believes in spiritual faiths, but a person does have a right to believe in whatever they want. You should debunk a person by their actions, not all christians are bad, the same with muslims or who ever. Debunking an entire belief is how wars get started. Apparently you have have targeted hatered here, and I'm not here to tell a person about his own business, but it never turns out to be a good thing. You could turn into the very same people you hate and not even know it. |
Mark-N-Isa
in Midwest USA
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 04:40 PM
Stephen says... "Debunking an entire belief is how wars get started."
Do you really think MOH is now that popular??? 😊
Are you saying that even if we could "prove" that religion, the whole God / creator thing was false and that science / evolution was actually correct that we should instead "keep it to ourselves" to avoid offending someone or starting a war??? But yet at the same time as uttering that advice you aspire to be a moderator for The Museum of Hoaxes???
Come on Stephen, pick a side, and then stick with it... thought you boys from Texas had more conviction then that! |
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 05:29 PM
This thread is not hoaxy or good natured.
Stephen, kill it, now! |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 05:44 PM
thou shalt not kill, stephen you ignorant twit. |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 05:50 PM
When did Stephen, that boner-ignorant twit, get elected Grand Poobah, anyway? "Kill this thread...?" SHIRT*RIPPER!!! |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:08 PM
At least this thread isn't as bad as the Koran thread! Hairy, it seems as though somewhere along the way, Stephen acquired the power to shut down threads. I'm so thankful he shut down the Chavs thread... |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:10 PM
We've been closing too many threads lately. Soon we'll have none left to close. So let's keep it open for now. |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:11 PM
Actually, Hairy also has the power to shut down threads. So do a few other people lurking around. |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:18 PM
It's fascinating to ponder that Hairy has enough self-control to not abuse his power but Stephen just wants to "kill, kill, kill".
Go get 'em, tiger! |
Smerk
in to mischief
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:20 PM
Scary thought that Hairy has that power! :ahhh: |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:23 PM
You better be careful Stephen. Some of us old-timers might get together and vote you off the island.
😉 |
Charybdis
in Hell
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:32 PM
Hey Alex, who's this <a href="http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/member/100/">maclure</a> guy? He's been a member since December but he's never posted. Or is he just a figment of my imagination? |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:35 PM
He's a figment of your imagination. Please forget that you ever saw his name. |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:39 PM
Okay, he's the name I used to create a dummy member account to test that everything was working.
He's also a 19th century american philanthropist. Friend of Thomas Jefferson. Founder of the New Harmony community. |
maclure
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 | 06:41 PM
Hey, I'm no dummy! |
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