Any copyright lawyers out there willing to offer some free advice? I just received the following email from
National Geographic (I'm sensing a bad trend developing here with emails like this... first the
time travel mutual fund, and now Nat Geo):
One of our readers has informed us that you are featuring one of our
photographs on your website at http://hoaxes.org/weblog/2003/10/ [note: here's a more direct link].
We would ask that you either remove the photo immediately, or forward me
details of how long the image has been posted and how long you intend to
keep it posted so that we can determine an appropriate licensing fee and
send you a formal retroactive rights release and invoice. Please let me
know if you have any questions.
I'm not quite sure how to proceed. Nat Geo, unlike the time travel mutual fund, isn't someone you want to mess with. But on the other hand, I believe (hope) that my use of the image is protected by fair use. First of all, the image had circulated widely via email before I put it on my site. All I did was add some commentary to it in order to inform the public of the image's true source. Second, my use of the image hasn't deprived Nat Geo of any income since the image was too low quality to make print copies from. In fact, my commentary probably provided them with some free advertising.
I could just buckle under and remove the image, but this question of what is and what isn't fair use with regard to images that have escaped into the wilds of email is one that I'd very much like to know the answer to. Does a site such as mine, that tries to provide some information about random images that people find in their inboxes, have to request permission from the copyright owner whenever the owner is identified? Am I going to have to request permission from
Touristguy to have his image on my site, or from
that guy posing with the big bear? If so, that would potentially kill off large portions of my site.
Comments
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html has some useful information, as well.
Technically speaking, the fact that a copyrighted work is widely infringed on has no effect at all on the ability of the copyright holder's ability to enforce the copyright - even if they know it is happening an allow it for everyone else. As a practical matter, other than someone like National Geographic, who depend a good deal on their photo archive for their income, most people won't do more than make noise about infringement. They are within their rights to demand you remove the picture or get a license from them, unless you can demonstrate a fair use exception.
However, fair use is fairly limited. You might be able to convince them you are using it for reporting news, which is one possible fair use.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 covers the actual law, but it is intentionally vague. And if they don't agree that your use is fair use, the only way to prove you are right is in court (and then, even if you win, you don't win, if you know what I mean).
What I would do is just explain to them what the site is, that you are not making any money from the image directly, that it is a news oriented site, and just ask for permission to use it. If they say no, I would certainly remove it, because it's not a fight you can afford to win, much less lose.
...maybe a compromise could be if you added a link underneath it allowing people to visit the NG site and buy the book containing the full size & quality picture. That way you're actually helping them, by providing what is effectively free advertising on a much visited site.
If NG make a fuss or demand money, I'd dump it but amend the relevant page (minus photo) with a description of what happened. I think this is almost bullying tactics by them, given the context the image is being used in and the widespread dissemination of it.
I think that even bothering to link their stuff is a waste of time, not to mention having to deal with legal warnings, etc.
On the other hand, I don't think I did anything illegal. If I were selling t-shirts with that picture on them, that would be one thing. But I was simply commenting on the picture. So I'm stubborn enough not to act as if I did something illegal by removing it.
I sent them a response explaining that I think my use of it is fair use, so I'll see what they say.
Regards,
Karen V
You may be permitted to copy a work for personal use but posting a copied photo on a Web page for all to see is not personal use.
I'm a photographer so I have a personal interest in copyright protection.
I would add another argument they could bring up if you were to end up in court: you ARE making money indirectly with their photo. The page on your site which features that photo contains ads, and the money for placing those ads end up in your pocket.
The fact that the image has been circulating around is also irrelevant: on one hand, how can you prove it did circulate? On the other hand, even worse, follow this thread of thinking: How many people saw it in their inbox? How many asked themselves "is this real or is it a fake"? How many of those visited your site to find the truth about it? And how many generated revenue for you by doing so? And then, your Honor, shouldn't we ask ourselves if it's not Alex Boese who started circulating them e-mails in the first place, using copyrighted material to make himself some dough?
I know none of the above are true, and that in your inner self you feel innocent, but there are so many unprovable things that can be blamed on you indirectly that I would do exactly what Terry Austin suggests in the last paragraph of his comment.
Listen to Terry Austin, who makes a very good living on creating copyrighted works.
Fair use is very, very limited, and in general you can't take an entire copyrighted work and use it, and then justify that by commenting on it. If you tried to argue for fair use in court, you'd be claiming that publishing the photo is more analogous to quoting a few lines from a novel in a review (legal) than using an entire poem in an essay without license (generally not legal).
If you do decide to keep it up, you should definitely talk to (and pay) a real lawyer.
Fair use is mostly limited to scholarly research and use in religious services, (!) so I'd pay the license fee or pull the picture. Since you have ads on your site, it would be hard to argue you were non-profit in nature.
As for the copyright law in the wilds of the internet, that war's still being waged, but the open-source folks aren't gaining a whole lot of ground. If I were you I'd keep doing what you're doing, and remove any image that a legitimate owner complains about.
Also, FYI, internet or no internet, the laws are the same.
I agree with the person that said you should ask Snopes what their policy is though. That would help you establish a policy and you should have a clear policy.
But there's one issue that a few people have raised which I would argue about: the fact that I have ads on the site somehow means I'm making a profit from the display of NG's ad. First of all, I don't actually make a profit from those ads. They just about cover the broadband bill for the site. That's it. But the larger point would be this: could a teacher not use an image for educational purposes if that teacher was simultaneously being paid a salary? or would a news organization's display of an image not be protected by fair use because that organization derived income from ads?
The reality is that news shows regularly claim fair use when showing images (and video), even though they make money from ads. And teachers claim fair use, even though they're getting paid to teach. How is what I did any different than this? I wasn't using NG's image to decorate my site. I was commenting directly upon it, and I needed to be able to display in order to show certain features of it (such as the watermark that I detected).
I was reading through the links that Terry Austin provided and I got wondering whether the Museum of Hoaxes might qualify as an archive... since libraries and archives receive quite broad fair use privileges. May be a bit of a stretch, but on the other hand, the site obviously does serve an archival role for the benefit of the public.
Second, you can't compare what you do to a teacher. That's a very specific narrow exception and it doesn't involve reproduction of the work. You are "publishing" a web site. This site is wonderful, but it's a publication.
Libraries buy the books and prints in hard copy and make them available to the public. You have yet to buy this image. If all web pages were "archives" then you couldn't enforce any copyright on the web. Anyone could claim that exception. Yet, literature archive sites go to great lengths to ensure they comply with copyright.
By all means wait for a response, but they'll probably reinforce their opinion that you are infringing and you should be prepared to take it down.
However, and this is very important too, there's no reason to assume that NG is going to be assholes about it. They didn't say "take it down or we'll sue you and kick your dog," they said "take it down of talk to use about a license." It is entirely possible they will be reasonable, and agree that it's OK for you to use it in an educational way. It's worth talking to them about it, and there's no reason to not start with the assumption they want to be reasonable.
(And for Carl, I don't think I'm the Terry Austin you think I am. I'm not the comic artist, anyway. Wish I was. He's a hell of a talented guy.)
Maybe you should put up a policy page on the matter, saying that you view yourself as a news site (or educational site, or whatever you prefer), and that you believe that gives you a fair use exemption for the stuff you use in your articles. And that if someone feels differently, they should contact you and you'll work with them. That may keep at least some of the yahoos from getting to rude.
I suggest that you contact the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) and see if their attorneys will listen to your story and offer advice. You might get some free legal services. Your Web site is very large and has a high volume of visitors. That might make them take notice. They might not help, but it never hurts to ask.
From a personal standpoint, I think this site is a great resource and deserves protecting. I'm just not sure you have legal standing.
Non-profit means not conducted or maintained for the purpose of making a profit. Instead, it operates to serve a public good. Any net earnings by a non-profit organization are used by the organization for the purposes of which it was established.
All net earnings from this site are, in fact, funneled back into helping to maintain it. Believe me, there's no profit associated with it. The site's public mission would be to educate about hoaxes as well as general debunking. (though this argument seems a little thin, even to me).
Contacting the EFF is a good idea, which I'll probably do if NG ever responds to me. As for contacting Snopes, I'm not sure they'd have any better idea than me how to deal with the situation. Plus, they're not great about writing back.
Apart from that, you CAN set up your business to be non-profit, but you need a formal arrangement, it doesn't work just by saying out loud that "All net earnings from this site are, in fact, funneled back into helping to maintain [the site]". So be aware that you are formally NOT in the clear as a non-profit organization, even if you can prove objectively that you made less than you earned. If you personally made one cent out of this site, you have even less rights, but even if you didn't, don't rely on it -- private business models are legally based on form and expectations, not on practical results: you can't just decide you're non-profit retroactively after a couple of years of commercial failure (not that the site would be a failure, it's actually great, just proving a point.)
First, you are right, being nonprofit doesn't mean you are barred from earning money from advertising. Nonprofit means that you are an organization which doesn't market products for money which is then paid to shareholders or the company owner.
Second, Gunza is certainly corrent in the nonprofit aspects. Creating a nonprofit organization is a legal process, not something which is simply stated. It would be a process similar to setting up a partnership or limited liability company, and might require bylaws, corporate officers, nonprofit organization tax returns, etc.
Third, being nonprofit won't exempt you from enforcement of copyright law. If the Red Cross used a copyright work to generate money for their organization, it would be copyright infringement.
In this situation: Your site has one copyright work from the National Geographic. You display advertising. The copyright holder can argue that you are receiving a commercial gain from their work. That's not based on being a nonprofit organization. Rather, it's based on the specific use of the work.
You believe the purpose of that work on this site is not for commercial reasons. However, it appears on a site where you have advertising. You realize a commercial gain when that work is viewed. That's a hard rock to crawl out from under in court.
Also, I'm not sure that the site you reference is following the law exactly. Just because they say they have a fair use right doesn't mean that they actually have a fair use right. It means they haven't been sued.
"the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;"
That doesn't mean educational purposes by a nonprofit organization. It means educational purposes for which no commercial gain occurs. Since you have advertising, you realize a commercial gain. It doesn't matter whether you lose money in the costs to maintain the site or make a million dollars a year.
In the end, though, commercial gain is a canard where copyright infringement is concerned. Copyright law isn't about money, it's about control. Having control of the work includes control of financial aspects, but that is a secondary effect. The purpose of copyright law is to control making copies.
The first and most important right of a copyright holder is not the right to make money, it's the right to force others to not infringe.
Terry, you are right. I just explained it that way to point out the difference between using a work for nonprofit teaching and a nonprofit group using a work. Monetary gain is only one factor.
1) NG is completely correct about this. No matter how many times the image has circulated via e-mail, you still need to properly acquire a license to use the image. In fact, you need to do so with ALL the non public-domain images on your website if you are to comply with copyright law. Also, since you've already violated their copyright, the request that you take it down or obtain a license is actually a courtesy request; they could just sue you for the violation that has already occurred. But they are in a position where they hope you'll realize the image has value for your website, so you'll properly license it, and everyone can benefit. I'm afraid they've got the law on their side on this one.
But having said that...
2) National Geographic has one of the WORST rights-grabbing contracts for photographers. The way the magazine photography business works, unless your photographer is on staff, you have to license the rights to the images from the photographer you hire, and pay that person every time you use the image. If you want more rights, you pay more money. Sometimes, you know you'll need broad usage, so you pay the photographer more up front instead of on an as-needed basis. But National Geographic has suckered and strong-armed photographers into giving up pretty much all the rights to their images for almost no pay -- just for the glory of working for National Geographic. While NG has a nice magazine, glory doesn't pay the bills.
You can read an analysis of one of their contracts for freelancers at the website of Editorial Photographers (EP), a professional organization for editorial photographers. They go so far as to call NG the "bully on the block."
The contract and analysis are at http://www.editorialphoto.com/contracts/ngworld.html
I sent you a message on such and such date in which I stated (restate your opinion). I have yet to receive a response to that message. If I haven't heard from you by (insert date), I will assume that you concur that my use of the image is a fair use for the purpose of news reporting and will consider the matter resolved.
I urge you to seek some legal advice, whether NG replies or not. Just because they don't reply, don't assume that this is resolved. Nothing anyone says on here replaces advice from a lawyer.
To the photographer: There is a news reporting exemption. That these images are circulated with false or misleading information through email and this site reports that as news might qualify under that exemption. There's some basis for it.
Everyone agrees that when people discuss books or movies, they have a right to quote from the original material. But when discussing images it's also often necessary to refer to the original image. How is that to be done? Images can't be quoted from. Occasionally it's possible to isolate a small part of the image, but more often the entire image needs to be shown in order for it to make sense.
My solution was to display a very low-res version of the image that wouldn't threaten the owner's right to sell quality copies of it. If this was illegal, then the only alternative option that I can think of would be to verbally describe the image. But that's silly because anyone who hadn't already seen the image would have no clue what I was talking about.
So is there a way for the public to freely discuss and refer to images in the same way that we freely discuss and refer to movies, books, poetry, etc.? Or does the public have to pay for the right to discuss images?
Best of Luck
Jared
I've always understood copyright holders to have an obligation to protect their copyright. Those who do not risk losing that copyright. Put another way, if NG knows you're using a work they own and that you do not have permission to do so, it's their duty to follow up.
In a case like this I would hope permission would be granted without charging you for continued (and past) use of the picture. I doubt fair use would apply here--though it is a murky area.
Copyright holders do not have to defend their copyrights in order to retain them. Rather, their copyrights expire at a certain date.
If people were free to use photographs like AP wire photos wherever they wished, then the systemof photo agencies anf photographers could no longer function.
And it's not like this is some college or not-for-profit web site -- you make money from advertising, and having these wacky photos adds to the desirability of your site and its traffic. Hence you are indeed profiting from the use of these unlicensed photos.
As much as people in the digital age love to think everything is free for the taking, the photographers, musicians, and software coders deserve to protect their work and any profits made from it.
However, I'm definitely going to put it back up if Nat Geo doesn't come up with a decent argument for why it isn't fair use, because I think my case is pretty strong. Here's why:
Kelly v. Arriba-Soft, 03 C.D.O.S 5888 (9th Cir. 2003).
Stanford's fair use website describes this very recent, precedent-setting case: "Arriba-Soft [an image search engine] was sued by a professional photographer whose photographs were copied (in thumbnail form). The court said that the search engine was designed to "catalog and improve access to images on the Internet," and was thus considered a "transformative use" (i.e., it adds something new, with a further purpose or different character, altering the first with new expression, meaning, or message.)" So Arriba-Soft won the case (which, I assume, is why other image search engines such as Google continue to exist).
In other words, a 'transformative use' of an image weighs heavily in favor of fair use. Arriba-Soft was cataloging the images and making them easier to find. I'm providing a resource to help people determine if images are real or fake. That's clearly also a 'transformative use.' I'm not just putting the pictures up there because I think they're pretty. I'm adding a new layer of meaning and context to them.
Add to this that my use of the image was for the purpose of commentary and educational, and that I used a low-resolution image that doesn't threaten Nat Geo's ability to sell the image.
Of course I'm biased, but I think that adds up to a compelling case for fair use. Though I need to convince Nat Geo of that, not you all. 😉
And although you quote that case, this site is not a search engine. Thr thumbnail on your site does not link to NG or to the photographer's web site.
If you know what's good for you, you'll drop it IMHO.
Keep up the good work, this is a great site!
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech or of the "press". Alex has a right to say whatever he likes. He just can't use a commercial image owned by someone else without paying.
Let's say I set up my own "news" site, and use photos from CNN and the NY Times on it to illustrate my stories or commentary. I'd be in trouble since CNN and the Times owns their photos -- they pay photographers and editors for them. They also license wire photos from AP, Reuters, and the like. The pictures on their site are not just free for the taking.
Professional photographers (and artists, writers, musicians, etc.) have every right to be compensated for the fruits of their talent anbd effort.
Point taken, but don't you think there's a difference between reproducing an image for the purpose of commenting on it, and reproducing it just for the sake of reproducing it?
Let me give you an example. Say that I was reviewing a book of photography. Do you think it would be legitimate for me to reproduce one or two images from the book for the sake of commentary, in the same way that book reviewers quote passages from books for the sake of commentary?
If not, then why not? Why is there NO controversy about reproducing short passages of text for the sake of discussion, but there's an ENORMOUS controversy about reproducing thumbnail-sized (or extremely low-res) images for the sake of discussion?
It isn't that there's no controversy. It is arguable that "quoting" the photo for commentary purposes is legitimate "fair use". The trouble is, it isn't CLEARLY fair use, meaning that NG can sue you and you'll have to defend yourself, and make a case.
You should really consult an intellectual property lawyer. An attorney of my acquaintance maintains that IP law is so specialized, any non-specialist lawyer giving advice on it is treading close to malpractice automatically. Certainly, the comments of people on some blog discussion board are not a substitute for actual legal advice, especially when they're emotional messages of support rather than practical advice on the consequences of various actions.
Carl
PERIOD !!!!
You review hoaxes and alleged hoaxes. This has been circulating around. Inquiring minds want to know: Is it a hoax? Unlike so many others who have merely circulated, you attribute and explain, thus actually bringing benefit to NG.
If I had a magazine or web page and someone like you took some of my material and referred people to me, I'd say, "Thanks!!" I'd send you more of my pictures with notes asking, "Hey, what about this one?" .. and hope you'd publish them.
A tremendous amount of the expertise of a Professional Web Designer involves getting referrals like the one you gave NG unsolicited and for free.
Often, and particularly in this case, "NG" means "No Good, throw away." I always liked National Geographic. Their own actions in this case make me think of them as NG... Leaves a bad taste... smell...