Sufferers of Morgellons disease complain of invisible parasites biting their skin. And they get skin lesions from which sprout strange fibers. And mysterious black spore-like specks appear on their skin. Cases of this strange disease seem to be spreading, especially in the Bay area. One theory is that it has something to do with Lyme disease. Or it may be a case of mass delusion. The medical community seems to think it's mass delusion. Most people who show up complaining of these symptoms get diagnosed with 'delusional parasitosis', which is a psychological problem in which people imagine that they're infested by parasites. Not having any medical qualifications at all, I won't weigh in on whether this is a real disease or mass delusion, but some of the behavior of the patients does sound suspiciously bizarre. Take the case of Theresa Blodgett:
Comments
It is just so hard for me to accept that there are so many people out there who make fun of and ridicule their fellow human beings who are only trying to get answers from their doctors and get well. I don't know about you, but I don't particularly favor being sick. I enjoy life too much and I am usually a very positive and upbeat person. My husband counted the number of skin lesions I have last night. He had to because some are in places I can not see or begin to reach, so you can forget thinking I am creating these sores. I have 24 lesions total. Do they itch????
Yes! Do I scratch at them sometimes???? Yes! Have you ever had poison ivy or mosquito bites. Do they itch???? Have you ever scratched because of the rash or bite. I would certainly venture to say YES, you have!
NO!!!!! WAIT...........there's no such thing as mosquitoes...they don't exist...and that bite and the itching you are experiencing...well, dear...just try to pretend it isn't happening...because you know what...YOU ARE DELUSIONAL - it's all in your head.
I will say it again...GIVE ME A BREAK!
Ah...Ms. Vicoria! So glad to see your posting is consistent and unrelenting otherwise the world will continue to be naive, uneducated about new things, and ignorance will reign supreme!!!
Lynn
I won't stop until there is a proper diagnosis and cure for this. You can count on that!
What you're saying is that because lots of poeple claim it's true means it is?
Yeah, I saw Elvis yesterday. Just like many many thousands have since he died. Must be real then.
As to chronic pain, I've got my share. None of your business what it is though, just like nobody wants to hear your totally off topic complaints about broken bones.
And coming from someone who knows when enough is enough, "I have heard it said that it is better for a man to be THOUGHT a fool, than to open his mouth and remove all doubt. " - Jaleenasmom
My grandfather used to say some people talked just to hear the sound of their own voice because it made them feel smarter. He was a country bumpkin, but a SMART country bumpkin.
And I guess if you say you haven't seen Morgellons then it's NOT real????
And, no, I am not saying just because lots of people claim it's true means it is. That is weird logic, Rod, yeah nigh unto Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or, maybe you're just wet behind the ears. What I am saying is I have more proof that it does exsist and IS real more than you have proof that it is NOT.
I've never been a big Elvis fan.
I am not ASKING YOU if you have chronic pain. I only want to hear about that from people who DO have chronic pain and it makes them feel better to talk about it so they know they have support from others who walk in their shoes everyday.
I asked you if you ever had a broken bone because that is what I liken the pain to when I wake up every morning. And, yes, because I say I have broken-bone-like-pain, makes it real, whether it matters to you or not. I do not know you so I couldn't care less if you believe in Morgellons or want to hear about my "off topic" complaints.
If YOU don't want to hear them, don't read my posts.
I, however, find your posts very interesting. Why? I find the way you shoot aggresion to those who believe they have Morgellons is odd. I mean, it's like you are afraid that Morgellons may actually be real and you'll have to admit you're wrong, (NPD) but if you don't have it and you don't know anyone who does, why do you care? Why do you care what others think about it?
Are you saying you are so intelligent that you know that Morgellons is not a real disease? ME-I'm smarter!
Have you asked me for that # to call to Dr. Harvey yet?
I know that he is a doctor and a researcher.
Have you asked me for the # to Dr. Crist?
He, too, is a doctor that treats Morgellons.
And your line of work is...?
(None of my business, but I'm sure everyone would like to know exactly what kind of doctor/scientist/researcher you are and in what field? You've got to be in one of these catagories otherwise your argument REALLY doesn't make sense.)
Or, maybe it's like I said in my earlier post, maybe you won't contact these doctors because they will tell you something you don't want to hear...that ME is wrong. I asked earlier if you knew who Dr. Harvey was. No reply.
Talk about talking off the subject! :lol:
You haven't even addressed those two comments and began to give a poor analogy of Elvis sightings vs. something scientific. Something that can actually be looked at, studied and observed.
And before you ask, yes, I DO have a degree in biology and psychology.
"My grandfather used to say some people talked just to hear the sound of their own voice because it made them feel smarter." - jaleenasmom
...And how many thousand words do you have here trying to convince people figments of imagination exist?
...This is a bacterial or parasitical infection, and not "morgellons".
You said it.
And I still wanna see proof. Start a website with actual proof. You know, scientific proof, conclusions of AMA studies, analysis of the tissue samples, etc.
You would be SO happy if you could change my mind. And if you prove it I'll freely admit being wrong. So now you've got some incentive to go to school and become a lab tech.
Oh, Ron! Oh, I mean RoD, you're such a kidder! I bet you are a very handsome man. Probably about 6', 170, muscular, luscious, thick blonde or sandy hair and big beautiful blue or green eyes!
OR you are ugly, have bad teeth, 5'5", fat, dark brown, thinning hair and eyes the color of poo.
Silly Rod, putting us on like that! You should be ashamed! If you google Morgellons you will find more information than you ever wanted to know, especially if you reach
http://www.morgellons.org
There you will be able to see pictures, see all the doctors who are involved with Morgellons Research Foundation, and learn about what was found in the 17th century. Set your med books aside and take the time to find out WHY it is called Morgellons. It does involve bacterias, possibly fungus and definately parasites.
What constitutes actual proof? What is scientific proof to you?
Look up this word: stenotrophomonasmaltophilia.
Dr. George Schwartz states on his web site
http://www.healingresearch.org/news.html
"This has been a baffling condition characterized by pustules, the feeling of skin crawling, and the presence of strange fibers within the lesion, the fibers may be blue black or even red. I have finally cultured the bacteria causing this disease it is termed stenotrophomonasmaltophilia this organism is extremely resistant to most antibiotics..." , you can read the rest there.
Technically, I am a lab tech and I will be happy whether you change your mind or not, as I know Victoria will agree. You see, we have nothing to prove to you, after all. We only debate on forum boards! You have to find "convincing material" somewhere besides here. We only have opinion here, right?
We only need to prove to doctors we are in fact, infected by something, and like Vick's doctor, they won't know what their seeing and we'll have to show them what you don't accept as proof now. At least that's the way it's turning out with my mother's doctor and for everyone I know who has Morgellons so far.
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Poor Rod! What's good enough for a doctor isn't good enough for him!
I have to admit that I do admire Boo's weighing of facts before finding them fiction, as you would do the same, of course.
When would you accept Morgellons as a real disease? (I hope you NEVER get it!!!)
If it's on the news would you believe it?
If it's in USA Today? Washington Post? New York Times? AMA Journal?
Psychology Today?
You may never tell me your answer to these questions because it's none of my business. (I feel that you might be that type of person. NPD) Then again, you may tell me because I've stated that you probably won't.
Or, you may avoid this topic altogether...
Poor Rod! Do we need to start a new topic for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Is it Real!? I mean, my goodness! He ignores so much of what you've had to say and only pounces on the one fragment of information that he thinks he can use to prove HIS point! :lol:
NPD is hell to live with. But it is fun when you can debate with them like this! :lol:
You just never know what they will say next...or won't say next, because they feel like they are giving you too much information about themselves for you to use against them.
Other than that I spelled it the same way you did. Go back and look.
Oh, and like i keep insisting.... Show me some freakin proof. PROOF. You know, actual empirical evidence.
Sorry, but just saying something is true doesn't make me believe it.
...And by the way, just because one doctor believes something does not make it real. An anthropologist from WSU went to his grave less than ten years ago totally convinced people were crazy because they DIDN'T believe bigfoot exists.
Irrational belief in the face of proof is one thing. But if you just believe the claims of every person on the planet without researching them at all, hell, you end up with stuff like Heaven's Gate.
Rational belief in the face of absolutely no proof if what all humans should strive for. This, and the quest for truth. Like i keep saying...
PROVE IT.
Also, if this is what you mean by no longer responding to me, I wonder just which one of us is hanging around demending attention (NPD anyone?) (the DSM IV defines this as one of the symptoms).
I myself could not have cared less if you ever responded to my post. Still don't. But it's fun to watch you act like a tool in defense of something you CAN NOT prove.
I keep saying it, you keep ignoring it...
PROVE YOUR POSITION
All ya gotta do is show some empirical scientific data and, like I said, I would consider this proof. If it was proof, I would be proven wrong. I would admit it. Now get off your hiney and frickin prove it, don't just sit around scraping crap into jars and pickin it up with tape. ANALYZE IT. Or get a CREDIBLE source to do so. (the neighbor's dog's personal trainer's canary just won't do, sorry)
PROOF - Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: proof
Pronunciation: 'pr
You are sooooooo right! Narrow-minded and how. I mean for someone to COMPLETELY IGNORE the web sites listed, and all the information that is available and then say "prove it". I mean really. He's totally ignored virtually everything we've said.
I think if he ever contracts Morgellons he could never convince anyone he isn't delusional!
Maybe I am totally wrong about you, Rod. Maybe you are not NPD but perhaps just unbalanced...
Posted by jaleenasmom on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 07:03 PM
That means YOU want someone's attention...and to be right. You finally had to drag out the DSM didn't you :lol: Of course, you would have to try to wound me somehow, personally, to prove my point :lol:
I may PLAY dumb, but I am by no means dumb...unless of course you are also a misogynist, then I will be dumb only to you :lol:
You miss the point, Rod! I do not have to convince you of anything. You have to convince me!
I don't have to get anyone CREDIBLE to analyze it.
Someone CREDIBLE already is :lol:
Dr. William Harvey, just for starters...but remember, you'll pay $300 an hour to talk to him!
YOU WANT THE NUMBER???? ROFLOL!!!!! :lol:
Yes, and I'm 100% sure that your "lab-tech" skills quite allow you to diagnose any psychiatric problems in anyone who disagrees with you, based on a few hundred words on a computer screen and no face to face.
I will repeat it again...
PROOF.
PROVE me wrong. Not only for yourself, but for all sufferers of this disease. Go to school and learn how to research it properly, then research it properly, then PROVE what it is. Is it too much to ask for some freakin PROOF instead of BS personal attacks? I guess maybe with you it might be.
I would break off this inane and pointless crap, but I'm having WAY too much fun repeatedly asking for PROOF and repeatedly not getting ANY.
(And you'll notice that I, unlike some other people out there, do not automatically leap to the personal attacks as soon as someone disagrees with me.)
HUH?????????
If he truly believes that this is a problem then he will have no qualms talking to someone in another country at his own expense to get the truth out there.
And yes, just like in court, the burden of proof is on the claimant (that is to say plaintiff) to prove his case, not the defense to refute it.
Try going to court and telling the judge "I don't have to prove he was screwing my 4 year old, he has to prove did not." See how that works out for you.
You are right. I would LOVE to go back to school and get my master's degree, alas, my uh....personal ailments...hinder me.
"lab tech" skills in psychology??? Lab maybe...
I come to a hoax site not complaining...I am actually having fun :lol:
Maybe I am here for someone to prove me wrong. Prove that what I experience and what I have seen with my own two eyes cannot be so, because if it is...God help us all...
Have YOU thought about going to school to prove your opinion to yourself and to others?
I have to say, as far as for me, you have to DISPROVE what I experience and have SEEN.
Would you like to see pictures of my mom's lesions???
My step-dads scabs?
DR. WILLIAM HARVEY
FAMILY CARE CLINIC
119 E ACADEMY
DEL RIO TX 78840
You ever seen the "eye witness" get their stored ripped to shreds on the witness stand by the defense attorney? It ain't pretty...
http://ypng.webcrawler.com/info.wbcrwl/ypv3/list.htm?&kcfg=ypus&ypinsp=0&searchtype=all&qhqn=family+care+clinic&qn=family+care+clinic&qc=del+rio&qs=tx&qk=15&xmlurl=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.superpages.com%2Fxml%2Fsearch?SRC=Infospace&search=Find%2BIt&PG=L&CS=L&T=del%2Brio&PB=&S=TX&Z=&A=&X=&P=&CID=&K=&C=&N=family%252Bcare%252Bclinic&PI=&NA=&STYPE=&R=N&qsubcat=firstpage&ypfwd=1&21012;
Follow that link to see it on public record at webcrawler.com
For shit's sake get a freakin clue. You have totally disregarded my repeated requests for proof up until now. And your doc's phone # is???
You have also totally and repeatedly disregarded the fact that the burden of proof lies on he (or she) who makes the claim.
To prove my point, I will tell you this... Last night I saw Jesus in my bathroom. He had shaved all his hair and looked kinda weird (you know, not like cross-jesus at all). He took me for supper, and while at the restaurant he let me in on the secret of life. The secret of life is pretty simple. It is "be nice to rocks." That's it.
Now prove me wrong.
PLEASE.
I don't have to prove he was here, or what he said, YOU have to prove he was not. At least by the logic you seem to have worked out, that is.
Wow, makes sens don't it? Rocks. Prove me wrong.
Ooops, there's that word you don't like.
PROOF.
I'm not sure I understand your last line. Defensive of what? Reality?
Are you in a different country or is this some new requirement you have?
DR. WILLIAM HARVEY
FAMILY CARE CLINIC
119 E ACADEMY
DEL RIO TX 78840
You ever seen the "eye witness" get their stored ripped to shreds on the witness stand by the defense attorney? It ain't pretty...
Now it appears I have pulled your chain :lol:
Lighten up! Chill out! This is the most intelligent conversation I've had in a looooong time...
I can show you pictures of my mom's, and other people's skin.
And I just loved the way that you totally ignored my argument about who should prove what.
You have said time and again that YOU (i.e. the person making the claim) does not need to prove it. I (and everyone else) have to disprove it.
So, I make a claim, and you immediately tell ME to prove it? (Yes, this is called a double standard). This just proves the point that you think just because it is YOU (my stars aren't you special!) that makes a statement means everyone else is automatically wrong. Like I have said many, many, many times by now, let's see some PROOF.
"Why must I offer you proof? Can you not gets facts for yourself???" Simply because of this... If the person making a claim cannot back it up in any way, shape, or form, people should not automatically believe it.
Tell you what...
I will agree to believe your claims without the oft-requested proof, if you will agree to believe my claims without your requested proof.
And the corollary...
I won't believe your bullshit without PROOF until you believe mine without PROOF.
Can it be any freakin simpler than that?
Be kind to rocks, jesus said so. Don't believe me? TFB.
"Simply because of this... If the person making a claim cannot back it up in any way, shape, or form, people should not automatically believe it." I AGREE.
Sorry, what's "TFB"?
Sure, you've stated many, many, many times how you want PROOF. The proof I offer you will probably not be good enough. Because it's not MY proof. I don't have labratory access in my home. I have been in touch with three Dr.s of Microbiology at a nearby college. They have agreed that their equipment is not sufficient for my purposes, but that they are going to do what they can to research this. They're all very excited about it!!! That was refreshing! Actual scientists wanting to learn more about something they didn't know existed until 2 days ago.
But they visited the links I sent them and did their "proof" on their own. Not a one asked me for some "proof" before and especially not after they visited the links I provided.
Did you visit the two links I posted for you? I thought you might need to see some really good magnified samples. Some "professional" scab sample pictures, as well as pictures of other things.
Do you have access to about a $12,000 microscope?
If so, I can send you some samples that you can look at for yourself.
Do you really think Morgellons is as far-fetched as Jesus visiting your home last night?
I am not being snotty here. Honestly, all chain pulling aside. Is Morgellons that far-fetched to you???
I'll be back tommorow though!!!!! :coolsmile:
I HAVE read through the websites you're talking about (as well as the ones refuting you). I always read both sides of the story (or as much of it as there is) before I make a decision about something. Quite frankly, you and the doc have failed to prove your side to me. From what I see, his credentials are somewhat suspect.
The only REAL decision I have made thus far is ramblingly explained here... When I was in high school, we did a test in class to see (wasn't high school biology FUN?) how big something had to be before you could feel it touching your skin. Turns out that human skin is actually pretty resilient to the touch of tiny things (this is why we don't feel it all of the time when a mosquito or some such lands on us), and there is no freakin way that you will ever convince me that ANYONE ANYWHERE can feel something the size of a paramecium or any other single celled organism as it is crawling ANYWHERE on the human body.
Now, I don't doubt these bacteria exist. What I am saying is that Morgellons does not exist as it is described. If you think you can feel something that small crawling on you, you either have some kind of nerve problem, or this is a psych problem. Plain and simple.
I say again: prove your position. There is no way that it is possible to feel this one kind of bacteria and not the tons and tons of other types crawling all over your body right now.
As for research, go to websites for universities. They will have contact info. There has GOT to be a student out there somewhere who is willing to write a thesis on an undiscovered disease. Quite probably you will have to undergo a psych eval, as no decent scientist (even a student!) would leave this avenue of possible attack into their research on this disease open. They would want to eliminate the possibility that it WAS all in your mind. Or maybe prove that it is?
I would enjoy being proven wrong as much as proven right. Because then I could add actual proven knowledge to my list of things I know, not just a bunch of stuff that nobody can prove, like bigfoot, or god (any god). All I want is PROOF (there that word is again) one way or the other. PROOF.
Is it that you don't believe in and god?
Do you believe there is such as disease as Fibromyalgia?
I believe that all we have to prove is this:
That things may actually be happening to people before we move to strike what they are telling us.
Case in point, Victoria's doctor of Internal Medicine, my doctor of Internal Medicine, John Cummings, my mother's general practioner, Jan Simms, my step-father's general practioner, Robert Brown, 3 Professors of Microbiology at Dyersburg State community college, Geoffrey S. Ames, M.D., William T. Harvey, M.D. is the current chairman of the NASA Education Advisory Committee. He has documented more than 565 of these (Borreliosis) cases in Texas and says 94% of (those with Morgellons
Reply-To : .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Sent : Friday, March 4, 2005 1:31 AM
Subject : Morgellons Research Foundation Update !
| | | Inbox
Hi to everyone!
Celine Mcarthur FOX News, aired part 5 of her series on Morgellons
Disease in Jacksonville FL last week . The video for part 5 is not yet
online, but should be available soon. Addressed in this segment was
the misdiagnosis of Delusional Parasitosis from the perspective of a
psychiatrist who is on our side.
A new segment aired last night in Houston, TX:
http://www.click2houston.com/health/4246515/detail.html
The Duval County (Jacksonville, FL) Health Dept will look at patients
in Duval County with Morgellons Disease:
http://www.wtev.com/news/reports/story.aspx?content_id=9E991568-DED9-
463B-957A-69E8599D16B7
Additional media coverage is planned for various cities in the US
within the next several months. We will send you updates as they become
available.
There is preliminary information which suggest that a bacteria,
Stenotrophomonas maltophilia, may be involved in the pathogenesis of
Morgellons Disease. We will update you as our information becomes
clear, and possible treatment protocols are determined by physicians,
if indeed this organism is involved. S. maltophilia can be present in
water, but again, this information is only preliminary. The answer to
this medical mystery is there, we just need to find it!
FAMILY CARE CLINIC
119 E ACADEMY
DEL RIO TX 78840
NUMBER IS 830 BREAK 774 BREAK 4094 BREAK.
DR. WILLIAM HARVEY
FAMILY CARE CLINIC
119 E ACADEMY
DEL RIO TX 78840
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Oct/10/ln/ss01a.html
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=7AE0F4CE-F0F5-42EA-9C12-0B6B63719E7D
Point 1. Belief or non-belief in something totally unrelated has absolutely nothing to do with the argument.
Point 2. Yes. Fibromyalgioa is a proven disease. They have EVIDENCE, you know, PROOF.
Point 3. All you have to prove? Your claims, and that is all. Otherwise, like I have said before, you have to accept my claims without any proof. That is what you are asking ME to do, and if it is so easy for ME, why the hell can't YOU do it? And jesus stopped back by. he said "Whoops, not all rocks. Sedimentary rocks are the chosen few."
As for all of the links you posted... Here I go, one by one...
1 to 3 are all broken
Link 4 - A man whose eye they removed an insect larvae from? How does this relate?
Link 5 - A man who only shows up on the internet trying to make a name for himself by trying to shoot down PROVEN FACTS without any kind of proof himself? THIS is your "help"?
Link 6 - Okay, this man died from AIDS complications. Says aids was a cont. fact. right in there. He died from an INTERNAL infection. Internal bacteria do not live outside the body. Therefore whatever infected HIM cannot be eating your skin. If it was, it would be from the inside, where THERE ARE NO NERVES TO FEEL THEM. Not that you could feel something that small even if it decided to start up a mosh-pit with all its buddies on your left nipple. I read nowhere where this patient had ever had the type of complaints you had, and there was no pathologically interesting bacterial infections on the skin, OR THEY WOULD HAVE INCLUDED THEM. Which also does not match your symptoms. And I quote "Cultures from blood, liver, and mesenteric masses were negative for bacteria and fungi, except for light growth of Candida glabrata from one of the mesenteric samples". This means that the lining holding his guts in place had a slight yeast infection.
Link 7 - The Pics - I could easily duplicate this collection of pictures (if I had a camera that would zoom in that well). How about an empirical scientific study of them? And post the results?
Link 8 - Hawaii - I fail to understand how this is related. Enlighten me.
Link 1 - The doctor they interviewed said it best...
"I always feel that people should keep an open mind and I think there are scientific experiments, what we call evidence-based medicine, that can prove or disprove that an organism is causing this," University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston dermatologist Dr. Stephen Tucker said.
And as for the nurse who says that just because so many people claim it that it must be true, I refer you to my earlier statement about Elvis. And I have a little experiment for you. Ask everyone that you know if they have seen the movie "Reservoir Dogs". Ask those that have if they saw a man get his ear cut off in this movie. Almost all people swear up and down that they saw this scene. In actuality, it is their IMAGINATION. This scene was never actually shot, and therefore could not have ended up in the movie where everyone says they saw it. If you watch the movie, it is not there. But by this nurses logic, because everyone thinks they saw it, they must have. (there is actually an interview somewhere with the director where he states his bafflement that people still claim to have seen this.)
Link 2 - broken
And while I'm on the quote thing...
"Only by focusing on anything that we can fit to our belief and ignoring everything that doesn't fit can we make these coincidences seem meaningful." - From Robert Todd Carroll, Skeptics Dictionary
This condition exhibits as pustules and the presence of strange fibers within the lesion. The bacterium causing this condition has been found. It is named (try to take a deep breath and get someone else to pronounce it) Stenotrophomonas maltophilia.
The crawling skin feeling is caused by multiple flagella on the bacterium and the fibers are actually produced by the bacterium. Bottled water has been blamed for the largest element of infection and the biggest offender is bottled water from France. One study observed that one-third of the bottled waters from France contain this organism.
The treatment is intensive and requires high dosages of sulfur drugs and antibiotics, although the bacteria appear to be resistant to many antibiotics.
In conclusion, whilst it may not be the best thing in the world, drink water from your tap and stop spending money on sucking up germs for your trouble. Many bottled waters here in the States are also affected.
One nice thing about this mess, is the fact that the bacterium is killed by boiling. Further, if you like bubbles as I do, carbonated water is immune to the bugs. This may be due to the higher base figure and/or the processing of carbonated water.
Search MORGELLONS DISEASE for more information on this unusual and recent phenomena.
THE BACTERIA ARE TOO SMALL TO FEEL.
So you're telling me drinking tapwater is safer that drinking bottled water? How so? Ever heard of Walkerton, Ontario?
PROOF, not some theory about where this comes from. Theories are good, although unproven theories are almost useless. All that a theory is is a starting point for research. Just like the Theory Of Creationism. Or, for that matter, the Theory of Evolution. Or, for that matter, the Theory of Relativity. All of these theories are unproven, yet all are accepted as fact by many people. Just because they believe it does not make it true.
They have to PROVE it.