Moon Base Clavius

So they want to prove that the moon landing happened and they do that by creating a web site that

Ah, Clavius Base. Lovely design, great site. In a strict sense, they don't really want to prove that the moon landings took place, only that the methods used by those who argue otherwise are unsound.

There's also a separate faction of debunkers, at http://www.lunaranomalies.com, who argue that we actually *did* go to the moon, but that the astronauts found an alien base there, and that NASA has been covering this up. I assume if you got them in a room with the hardcare 'we didn't go' crowd and the chaps from Clavius Base there would be an almighty fight of Merrie Melodies proportions.

I remember my grandmother telling me while watching the landing on t.v. with her mom (who was born in 1898) that the government was pulling a hoax. She refused to believe it was really happening. Went to her grave telling people it never really happened.

Er.. My great grandmother didn't believe it happened that is. My grandmother wasn't sure who to believe.

I was always intrigued by the photo/crosshair phenomenon. It's funny that it was such a simple explanation. I'm almost embarrassed that I even considered doubting the photos....

Before my mother died we watched the Fox Special on how the Moon landings were a hoax. The one bit I remember about the show was that they said tracks could be seen in the "Moondust" before the Lunar Rover ever traveled over the patch of ground. The only reason I remember that part is that my mother said she saw the tracks and I never did. We argued over it for quite a while.

I suggest everyone watch "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon." It has some great arguments on why no one ever went to the moon (including new footage). I really liked the movie and found it compelling, and it made a doubter out of me.

Okay, then when we actually land humans on Mars, which many of us should live to see, at least Meagan, it'll be okay to wonder why it's not like "Robinson Crusoe on Mars"?

"Robinson Crusoe on Mars" of course being one of the few memorable film roles for Adam West, who played Batman on TV a couple of years later (albeit that you shouldn't get too attached to his character). Not yet available on DVD, although it seemed to be on BBC2 every other bank holiday when I was a kid. The martian spaceships were the same ones from 'War of the Worlds', which is a spooky piece of continuity.

Thanks for the nice review, Ashley. -A.W.

This should put an end to all Hoax fantasy's and put to rest all doubt... of course you'll still have those that think it's all a government, world-wide collaboration and that they're releasing only what they want (excluding the pics of the supposed alien base) or doctored photos to make it seem like we did go there. Some will never believe... despite the fact that there are still "working" experiments left by the Apollo crews, that anyone can verify.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/050304_moon_snoop.html

You have to realize that right now, somewhere on the planet, someone is already writing away on their website telling us this is all BS and that any results they have will all be falsified disinformation from the Illuminati/Third Reich/Jewish/Satanist/Masonic New World Order, don't you?

This subject, much like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest, will never rest.

Unfortunately.

Gee Rod,
Thought I had already realized that fact when I wrote this line in my original post on the subject...
"of course you'll still have those that think it's all a government, world-wide collaboration and that they're releasing only what they want (excluding the pics of the supposed alien base) or doctored photos to make it seem like we did go there."
So, in answer to your question... yes, you should realize that... which I, in fact, already have. What the hell though, at least it gives the nut-cases something to focus on rather than us! 😊

I was pointing out that they will already be working on the websites, even though the evidence that they are refuting has not been gathered yet.

I couldn't say what I wanted without a bit of a rehash in mine.

Now that I look back and read them both, one right after the other, it does look like I was just restating the obvious, does it not?

I feel kinda sheepish right now...

:down:


Have you seen my velcro gloves?

😕

Yeah, I know what you mean about the websites generated before evidence one way or the other has even been compiled. That happened when the Mars Orbiter was "directed" to take some pictures of the Cydonia (Mars face) region recently. The data had just been received from the orbiter and made public, although there's lots of opinions on how and why, and there were already pro and con (spriacy) websites up and running. The pro-side stating that it was just an unusual but natural formation, and the con-side asserting that it was the remnants of an ancient metropolis. I read this, I think, at http://www.space.com and from there was given links to both sides... interpreting the data to fit their needs. Of course the conspiracy group was stretching the results, it seemed like, to fit their views. Like I said though, anything to keep the crack-pots busy and off our doorsteps! 😊

I think the thing that really angers me about the area 51 KB*r*k black-and-white-snow-enhanced-low-fi-CIA film wonder was that as a 7year old I watched this with reverence... I believed... and what 7 year old wouldn't!

But now that I am more than 7 and our favourite America show still goes on, it on a need to know basis that I ask 'what did they do with all the money that was pumped into NASA?

Since the Illuminati-Vatican-Skull-and-Bones-Royal-Masonic fourth Reich Bilderburgers are the owners of the whole world wide wedding between themselves and all other members of the all seeing very-top-of -the-pyramid club, why are we being permitted to say these things?

Yes, Virigina, there is a Moon that orbits the Earth and humans indeed landed on it--it's not that far away and easy to get to even with 1950s aerospace technology. Yes, Virginia, there are stupid humans who believe in conspiracy theories like JFK was killed by the CIA, George Bush invaded Iraq for oil, NASA faked the lunar landings, and the Earth is flat and hollow and UFOs are alien spacecraft. Duh.

Hmmm, so it's easy to get to the moon and land several lunar modules on it using 1950' technology. Fair enough. So why is it so difficult to land unmanned research vehicles on Mars 50 years later?? 10 out of 13 never made it. Oh, and UFO's do exist, I have had one 2 inches from my nose. Clear as day, and I could have touched it. Totally unique and not of this world. I am a 50 year old banking analyst, and this thing took a clear flight path to see what I was. I watched it fly all the way up to me. The politicians, NASA, and anyone else who says that they do not exist is lying. 100% absolutely. I will never believe them again and now occupy my mind wondering what they are covering up if they need to lie on this scale. Fear is the only motivating factor that I can think of.

Let's start with the fact that at its closest approace in 60,000 years, Mars was still 55,758,006 kilometers away. Contrast this with a nearest distance of 363,104 kilometers to the moon. At its closest Mars is still 154 times farther away than the moon. That's quite an obstacle to overcome.

Humans landed on the moon in 1969, using primarily 60's technology, not 50's.

10 out of 13 never probes never make it? I can think of 4 successful American probes off the top of my head, and I'm sure there were others, not to mention several successful Soviet probes.

As for your UFO encounter, I'm not even touching that save to say that anecdotes are never acceptable evidence for the existence of anything.

Damnit, it just dropped my post.

Quickly, according to Wikipedia there were 37 named attempts to reach Mars via probe that have already arrived, or failed to arrive. I'm counting probe and lander as one since it was one attempt.

Out of 37 attempts, 12 were considered complete successes, about 1/3 of them. If you count partial successes (usually the lander failed but the probe itself worked), that raises it to 18 or about half. Still not a great record, but what do you expect when operating over 50 million kilometers from home?

You are assuming that you are being told the truth? What leads you to believe sources that have every motivation in the world to lie to you, maybe NASA has successfully landed on the Moon and Mars, maybe they haven't. I do not know, anymore than you do. All I do know is that I have no reason to invent a tale about a UFO, and nothing to gain from doing so. I now know others who have had similar experiences, and some of those incidents had a verifiable Government/Military interest. Not just anecdotes, close up video evidence. When a democratically elected 'leader' can stand up and blatantly lie about the existence of aliens on this planet, they can lie about anything. They have every reason to deny their existence. If they admit that they exist and that they are powerless against them, then homo sapiens are no longer the most superior species on earth, and all religion becomes irrelevant. That seems like a good enough reason for a 'leader' to lie?
Why spend all that money getting a robot onto Mars to look at some rocks when they could feed and house every one of the starving human beings on this planet with that money? What makes getting onto another planet such a higher priority? Ask yourself some very basic logical questions. If you will excuse the pun, it's not rocket science!

What motivation does NASA have to lie to me? For that matter, why wouldn't they have lied and claimed a greater success rate?

Again, anectdotal evidence is irrelevent. If aliens were flying around all over the place trying to make contact with us, they'd stop off at CNN for an interview.

As for the monetary reasons, money is spent on the space program because people like me feel it's a necessary and vital part of our research requirements. I'm not the goverment, and I want it to continue. I want to reach other planets because I think it's cool! So obviously it's not just the government because there are millions of people who feel the same as I do about it.

...

A robot getting onto an UNTOUCHED planet fifty billion kilometers away to "photograph some rocks".

Do you think that Mars is just a rocky place of no interest? Why do you think NASA even expressed a wish to go to other planets?! There's so much scientific data, not to mention historical landmarking and acheivement, in getting to a planet through a radiation belt fifty million kilometers and returning usable data that it's impossible to have any kind of space program and pass up the importance of it!

Do you know why we can't feed the "starving" human population over there in "impovershed" nations who are dying because of "neglect"?

Giving fifty million dollars in taxpayer money to starving asians will hardly make a difference at all. You can't buy something that doesn't exist. Some of these "poor" asians are RICH, yet they have no way of using that wealth because a combination of famine, landscape, overpopulation, and theft has robbed them of far too many conveniences. Helping them is not a matter of the greedy, hoarding americans handing over some of their limitless pocketwealth to the begging asians and everything will then be happy happy fun fun joy joy with no more problems.

Releif efforts are underway, but it will take time, TIME, before the situation will ever stabilize. Until then, it's a disturbing but neccessary fact that the starving people will have to continue to starve, at least some of them. And beleive it or not, Asia is not a cesspool of illness and death. Only a few places actually fit the description of "pleading, begging gnat-covered sick asian children starving to death in the middle of a desert".

As for why the success rate of Mars is lower, any kind of mission to mars will take YEARS in order for the craft to simply get onto Martian soil, during which it passes through a field of high-energy protons with any number of solar disturbances happening en-route that could knock the electronics for a loop and send the craft spiraling into the red soil. It is much simpler, as a matter of fact, trivial in comparison, to go to, and land on, the moon, simply due to matters of supplies, distance, and hazards.

On another note, as for the actual subject of Clavius, I look at conspiracist's theories and I see nothing but misinformed, unintelligent attempts to prove something false in the overwhelming breadth of proof. And when such proof is pointed out and Occam's Razor also pointed out, the conspircist covers their ears and screams "LA LA LA, CONSPIRACY!!".

Your comments about Asians being some lower form of life that do not deserve the right to life just about sums up the difference between the US and the rest of the world. As a political analyst once commented, the Middle Eastern countries understand US culture a great deal more than the US understands Middle Eastern culture.

You assume that the person who is going to grow up and find the cure for cancer is not among those starving millions, your comments do nothing other than reveal your childish ignorance, and complete lack of understanding of anything beyond your own back yard.

There is no justification for happily watching a human being starve to death, whilst invading a foreign country and killing it's people, whilst spending billions on sending a robot to a barren rock millions of miles away.

Or maybe there is a reason, and maybe that reason has not been revealed. One thing is for sure, as long as a government wants to delude people into paying for its' extravagances, it can always depend on gullability to cough up the cash.

Calling anyone who asks a question a 'Conspiracy Theorist' does not bother me at all. It doesn't apply to me. I don't deal in theories, I only deal in facts. The 'facts' are that the US owes trillions of dollars to other countries and currently has no way of paying it back, the biggest loans are with China, a communist country with no debt at all. Go figure?

Ok, so we're doing a little mining on your moon. Don't worry, we're just taking a little, and technically, your planet and your moon are not your "property." Yes, we keep an eye on you. You are a "developing nation" to us, and we have rules about interference. Your leaders are self-preserving, afraid, foolish, greedy, and yet in some way wise. You are too violent to each other to be trusted among the wider spectrum. We have enough problems without you making it worse. You are the most immature, passionate, and beloved of all known entities. If you mature, you will be glorious. Your most remarkable characteristic is your profound ability to doubt the obvious, and believe the obscure. Some of you call it "denial" while others call it "faith." Still the most headstrong of you clam to know about "facts." This is cause for great entertainment, discussion, speculation, greif, and joy...felt by beings you cannot yet comprehend. Even wagers are placed on your actions. You are a "cockfight," a "sim game" and a "sporting event." You can become more. Your potential is astounding. Don't assume you know. Grow.

Jay Windley and the rest of those pro-Apollo posters on the Clavius forum all know the moon missions were faked. Clavius is being discussed on this thread.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628