IQ Challenge

A little cognitive dissonance goes a long way, the people bragging about their scores expected a high score before the test and still do even now. Though it is interesting that the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary.

Yeah, those people are pretty dumb. It's shocking to note that in America, education is so messed up that over 49% of students have below average intelligence. 49%!

My pals on LJ figured it out within a day, but only a few of us even bothered taking the quiz. (2 out of 40+.)

If it's no longer up, it's probably been a victim of its own popularity. It doesn't take much to wang someone's site into oblivion, and memes spread through LJ at a rate codified by scientists as 'Damn Fast Per Second'.

The IQ test itself, when considered as a mathematical "measure" of "intelligence", is not much more than a hoax.

i am not so sure about 49% of population.

I was part of this even, and yes, people did say "But the original score was accurate", even though the test did not take age, location, primaray language, or the time taken to answer the questions into account.
The questions were taken from real tests but the score was randomly generated.

I really enjoyed the text left on the site. And I agree with it. Intelligence is over-rated. I was watching a documentary on stupidity the other night, and someone said: 'Even the most intelligent people can not define stupidity accurately. Fact is, nobody agrees on what stupid or intelligent really is'.

Apparently Buba missed the joke..."49% below average intelligence" is just about as meaningful as "3/4 of America makes up 75% of the population."

Must agree with Christophe. I know plenty of people who scored "high" on professionally-given IQ tests (not online ones) and are complete morons. Hell, even I scored pretty high.

IQ is simply a person's POTENTIAL for intelligence, not actual intelligence. A person can opt to take advantage of that potential, or they can remain idiots and just brag to everyone how high their IQ is.

Ahh yes, the old 49% joke... of course, if 9 people have an IQ of 10, and 1 person has an IQ of 1, the average IQ is 9.1 , and clearly only 10% of the people have below average IQ.....

IQ is even less than "a person's POTENTIAL for intelligence." It is at best a measure of aptitude for the small and abstract puzzles typically found on an IQ test. Most likely, it is nothing more than a measure of the ability to score well on IQ tests.

thank you rayban,
i got the joke i missed the logic.

I think the statistical measure you have in mind is closer to the median than the average...

As it so happens I am a member of MENSA and I did score a 152 on their tests.

I *do* think the tests measure something (at the very least how much better you do/do not perfom on that specific test) but I don't think they are an indicator for succes or making smart decisions.

I can tell you from experience that it doesn't help much in RL (real life for you non-mensa members... just kidding).

I've grown *very* weary of telling anyone I'm a member too as I usually get one of two of reactions:

#1 the 'I guessed so already' or 'that explains' reaction (i.e. someone seems to agree with the test that I'm not all that stupid, and perhaps a little smarter on certain subjects/tasks)

#2 the 'dismissive' reaction, where people decide it's best to make fun of it/you, either because they sincerely don't believe the test results indicate anything, or simply because knowing someone else scored high on the MENSA test makes them feel they're less / more insecure... (Donald Trump seems to be a good example of the latter).

Anyhow, I've met some nice people through MENSA, especially in Europe, i.e. people who genuinely care about making sure that people who suffer from a High IQ score receive as much attention as those who perform badly.

Also, as a lot of 'us' are kinda low-IQ on the EQ/communication skills, myself included, I've always valued the chance of meeting 'like-minded' people. In your typical MENSA group skipping a few steps in a discussion does not lead to a glazed-over look, bluntness is accepted and common, critical discussion/review of another's viewpoints expected, (your) authority always questioned, and non-conforming considered a badge of honor.

I tried to meet a similar group in the US (NYC) and was shocked to find that some of 'us' here would more easily be identified as eugenics-prone Nazi's if it weren't a fact that close to 50% here are Jewish (I'm not), and then there's a very large percentage who seem to believe in UFOs, the Lord/Jesus and other figments of non-scientific popular imagination...

In short: I'm all IQd out.

in short: who cares? It has always seemed to me that people who join mensa are those that feel the need to prove to others their worth. People with any sort of brilliance and inspiration (how's that for a definitionb of intelligence?) are out doing real things instead of petty-intellectual one-upmanship.

Well Jim sure did live up to the elitist, snobbish, "my ideas are clearly superior to yours" stereotype of those who perform well on IQ tests and follow it up with exclusive pat-on-the-back groups. I wish I could get my nose that far in the air, but then I suspect it's hard to really get around much with a head that big.

From bhubba:
1. dismissive insult
2. unsubstantiated value judgement
3. unsubstantiated assertion combined with insult

From Lonewatchman:
1. Five insults in one sentence. Impressive!
2. Two insults in one sentence.

Along the lines of taking it as well as they dish it out, I'd sure love to hear responses from bhubba and Lonewatchman to this accusation:

You two sure are living up to the stereotype of petty jealous have-nots equating sour grapes with what is in fact a beautiful thing: a human mind that happens be be superior at certain types of processing.

Getting mad at people for having big brains makes about as much sense as getting mad at people with big bodies. Getting mad at people with big brains for joining clubs with other people with big brains makes about as much sense as getting mad at tall people for playing basketball.

So, the guy is smart. I reccommend getting over it, or at least sparing us the sour grapes, insults and unsubstantiated opinions.

Acually, to be a pure pain in the arse, cognitive assessment ("I.Q.") raw scores are standardized, in which they are curved (like a bell curve), with the ultimate average score (100) most heavily populated. So, actually, it's already fewer than 49% scoring below "exact" average.

Additionally, the actual "average" range is between 90 to 110. Figuring the standardized curve into it, I'd estimate that less than 1/3 of the population scores below average.

FINALLY, you can't educate a student into scoring well on a valid (non-culturally biased) cognitive test. Academic growth is measured by academic achievement tests.

Ah... I've always wanted to sound snobbier than a Mensa member. I think I've succeeded. 😊

That's a pretty funny hoax. The Fallacy of Personal Validation is alive and well.

http://learninfreedom.org/iqbooks.html

"Culturally biased test" just refers to any test that requires the student has learned something in his time at school.

Which brings me to the California High School Exit exam; 11% of students haven't passed it. Even if it's not their fault that they didn't learn basic english skills, I don't think they deserve a high school diploma. What good is a high school diploma if it doesn't certify any intelligence or talent? Why not have free Harvard diplomas for everyone?

Just found a software that trains your IQ (link attached)

Oh,here is the link
http://www.wordofmouthexperiment.com/dedpyhto/IQ-test-trainer.htm

I took an IQ test on some matchmaker site that claimed to hook you up with similarly intelligent people. I scored a 129... okay so thats about average intelligence. (I know when I was younger that I scored in the 150's, but IQ can decrease with age so I wasnt too concerned..)

I then proceeded to take the test again, looking up the answers to the problems (lot of those which one of these doesnt belong... verbal stuff like foot is to shoe as hand is to ____ I forget what they're called)... I got a 129 again. I can assume at this point that it was rigged.

Anyway IQ doesnt mean much... I had near genius IQ when I was in grade school, and now Im some schlub working in a hospital laboratory. Its all in how you apply yourself.. which I never bothered to do... nothing with being cocky Im just lazy...

Emidawg - 129 is not average. 100 is. By definition.

IQ does not decrease with age - sorry...however, scores given do have an age factor added during calculation.

The reason you got the same score is that you probably got all the questions right. Each test has its limits - for most, it is 130; for some, 140.

Why didn't you score 130 each time? Because the age factor means that the top mark gets a different IQ score depending on what age group you are in.

You can take tests for higher IQs. But they all have their limits.


However, please don't mistake IQ for intelligence. It isn't. Is isn't even potential to be intelligent. It's an aspect of intelligence. Just that.

None of the tests will tell you how well you will get on in life. It's just a way to measure up and brag in the playground (if you'd like to know, I score 150 on 150-max tests; but I don't care - I have a job & life I enjoy which is nothing to do with my IQ). But measuring length/breadth of parts of your body is a more accurate (and more fun) way to do that. 😉

Do a Google on IQ to check my facts.

I noticed that there definitely were a few people who did continue to justify their IQ score. Some people just did want to accept that the thing was a hoax.

"... FINALLY, you can't educate a student into scoring well on a valid (non-culturally biased)cognitive test."

Well, I suppose that's true by definition. The problem is that there is no such thing as a valid, non-culturally-biased, cognitive test. Reading the history of IQ testing, or even looking at a few of the tests themselves, makes this obvious.

As tighthead says, about all any of those tests really measure is how good you are at taking that type of test.

I score very high on IQ tests and most other standarized tests, so I'd like to tell everybody that means I'm hot stuff, but it really just means I have a talent for taking tests.

Reminds me of an episode of "King of the Hill"--or the various "Who's Who" book scams around. You've been selected for some honor--now would you like to buy the handsome, leather-bound proof of this honor?

I believe this is at least an aspect of the Forer Effect. (I am somehow special and different from everyone else--even though everyone feels that way.)

Actually, Citizen, you're only partially correct. Since IQ (cognitive) tests are meant to NOT test what's learned in school, valid cognitive tests work hard to NOT test what's been learned in school.

An oft-cited example of a culturally biased question is this: "What sort of roof would be best in a snowy region?" (Giving various examples of steep, and relatively flat.) Of course, if you grew up in South Africa, you may not ever have seen snow and don't know how to answer that. This is an indicator of learning and experience, not intelligence.

The common confusion is that intelligence (cognitive ability) is knowledge. It is not. Intelligence is the predicted capacity to learn and perform. Not a record of what has been learned.

All the school assessments we give students to demonstrate whether or not they are learning are NOT intelligence tests. They are academic achievement tests. (So you would expect a High School proficiency to NOT test intelligence.)

(By the way, the instant you see a trivia question on an internet IQ test, you can be guaranteed that the test is pure BS.)

In fact, your post gives a perfect example of non-teachable intelligence. Would you expect talent really to be teachable? No, of course not. Neither is intelligence.

Skills and knowledge are teachable. Intelligence and talent are not.

Oakely dokely.

Oh, and to my knowledge, valid cognitive (IQ) tests are only given on an individual basis: one test taker and the test administrator. I could be wrong on this, but I don't know of any accepted cognitive assessment given any other way.

And you're right, Big Gary, truly culturally unbiased tests are a bit of a Holy Grail. But they're getting closer. 😊

The problem with testing the capacity to learn instead of what somebody has already learned is that learning things does increase someone's capacity to learn, in a way analogous to how lifting weight increases one's capacity to lift weight. So nobody can really make a strong, well-founded claim that a certain test measures capacity to learn rather than the tested person's history of learning.
If I were really smart, I might be able to figure out the Pythagorean Theorum on my own, but if I've been through high school, I should know it without having to puzzle it out.

Even more than they are culturally biased, IQ tests are linguistically biased. In the early 20th century, IQ tests administered to millions of U.S. military recruits led to the conclusion that a high percentage of immigrants were of sub-normal intelligence, because they couldn't answer questions like, "Who is Shoeless Joe Jackson," or "What's the difference between an angle and and angel?" Remember that the immigrants being tested knew only limited English, and many of them had had little or no schooling. Nonetheless, these test results were used for decades to bolster arguments for restricting immigration. They have also been used, in subtle and unsubtle ways, to support race-based and sex-based discrimination.

Big Gary, you're very correct. First, the capacity to learn does improve a bit when learning. That's why I always cringe when our psychologist says that you can't get better at memorization. Even putting mnemonic devices aside, frequent memorization will improve the skill. But, I think these changes in natural situations are rather minimal.

Also, back to cultural bias a little, this gem of soon-to-be cultural bias just hit me: one of the items in a popular cognitive test involves identifying missing parts of a drawing. One picture, for example, shows a telephone without the cord leading to the wall. How long will it be before children growing up in homes sans landline telephones are unable to identify the missing cord? Cultural bias!

This is hilarious!

At first I thought the posts by Jim Smoth, intjudo, bhubba, and Lonewatchman were all serious...
...Then I realized they are all intentional works of irony that discuss the issue of "true" intelligence on a forum about a hoax IQ test. The characters are very well developed too:

we have Jim, the "Don't hate me because I'm smart, hate me because I'm arrogant and trying not to be." guy.

Then theres bhubba, the "I don't care, but I'll post my opinion because I obviously do care." guy.

...And the "reaction #2" guy, Lonewatchman. I suspect the Lonewatchman post was posted by Jim Smoth just to give the story good ironic balance. I'll have to wait for the next episode to find out for sure, though.

Aaaaaaand my favorite character so far: intjudo! The "I'm above all this, but I still want all you morons to know I'm smart, so I'll insult you by analyzing your insults, but I'll make it only COVERTLY insulting." guy.

Great material, guys! Keep the humor coming!

P.S. (I'm hoping for a walk-on guest appearance as "Bitter and cynical, but trying to hide it." guy, or maybe "Overly-sarcastic doofus that doesn't really understand what we are all talking about." guy.)

i love it

Wow, that is really something. I can't believe that so many people were tricked with this.

On another note, I give serious props to the guy who thought of this. There is some serious creativity.

High IQ is one thing.

Low self-esteem is another.

Mensa exists to serve the needs of the latter.

=)