The Museum of Hoaxes
Historical Jesus found!
Posted By:
John
Feb 22, 2005
 Greetings all,

guess who Jesus really was, you certainly have heard of him!
According to the Italian scholar Francesco Carotta the historical Jesus was
Caesar!
Carotta: "The Gospel proves to be the history of the Roman Civil war, a
'mis-telling' of the life of Caesar-from the Rubicon to his
assassination-mutated into the narrative of Jesus, from the Jordan to his
crucifixion. Jesus is a true historical figure, he lived as Gaius Julius
Caesar, and resurrected as Divus Julius."

"This report is of the same order of importance as the scientific
discoveries of Darwin and Galileo."
- Paul Cliteur, Ph. D., University of Leiden, The Netherlands

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories....02986805&EDATE=
http://www.carotta.de

Amazing!

John
Category: History, Religion; Replies: 25

Comments
The Curator
in San Diego
 Member
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 06:30 PM
The prnewswire link isn't complete. Do you have the full url?
Myst
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 08:24 PM
Here is the full prnewswire link Alex:
<a href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=danews.story&STORY=/www/story/02-08-2005/0002986805&EDATE=TUE+Feb+08+2005,+09:06+AM">it is a really, really, really long url</a>

The article is about a book:
'Jesus was Caesar'New book by Philosopher and Linguist Francesco Carotta Claims That the real identity of Jesus Christ has Been Discovered
The Curator
in San Diego
 Member
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 08:30 PM
Thanks, Myst.

I think if this guy could fictionalize his theory... maybe turn it into a book titled the 'Julius Caesar Code'... have the main character be a semantics professor who gets involved in murder mysteries, and make the plot about a centuries-old plot to cover-up the true identity of Jesus, he could make millions of dollars off this.
Myst
Member
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 | 09:39 PM
Your welcome, Alex.

I bet it would hit the best seller list in no time if he did make it fiction.
LaMa
in Europe
 Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 01:00 AM
Hi Alex,

Sounds like you might want to read Paul Maier's "The Rama Document". That's a bit along those lines altough Ceasar's not involved.
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 08:35 AM
I'm going to get started writing a book my own theories. Seems every thing can get twisted and distorted, and then published nowadays. Alex is a perfect example....J/K Alex. Why is this the first time I have heard of this Caesar and Jesus connection. Why am I allways the last one to know. "They" are allways hiding something from me.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 09:25 AM
"We" are always hiding something from you because "We" want to control you.

"The Council" has spoken. :coolhmm:
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 09:50 AM
Noooooo, it is "THEY" that wan't to control me. But one day, I shall get the upper hand. By the way, I seen thay "Saw" movie last night. It sucked. Just thought I'd say that.
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 03:22 PM
Yeah!!!! What God, I mean "Paul" said
padego
Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 05:15 PM
Does this mean we can cancel Easter?....
Myst
Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 08:26 PM
Cancel Easter and go without Cadbury eggs? No way!
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 | 09:30 PM
I'm just going to pretend you said "Whoppers Eggs" 'cause they're pure ambrosia. 😝
X
in McKinney, TX
 Member
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 | 07:48 AM
Ok, Paul, did you just call me an "Asshole!"
yossie
Member
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 | 11:14 AM
I found another website that has some comments to make about this book.

<a href="http://www.smallkidtime.com/was_jesus_caesar.htm">http://www.smallkidtime.com/was_jesus_caesar.htm</a>

I've been mulling over this weird theory for some time, and there is a lot to it. At first it seems WACKY!... But it fits with the facts!

Isn't it strange that we, if we are to be 'Christians', must have faith, not only in "Jesus died for our sins" BUT ALSO just in the 'fact' that he ever existed at all! (You know: "Do you believe in Jesus?" as in "Do you believe that he existed?")
There isn't any evidence that there was a Jesus as described in the Bible. Really, there isn't any.
But he was so amazing, supposedly, that hundreds of people followed him around, all over Palestine. He was renouned throughout for his amazing miracles, etc...
But NO mentions of him, even by Josephus. (Yeah, I know: there IS a 'mention', but it is spurious. It is an interpolation and only Christian apologists deny it is. But anyone can look it up, and see that the Josephus 'mention' is so fake it is ridiculous. )

....
mary jane
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 | 10:22 AM
I'm with yossie on this one. At first I also thought this to be a weird joke. But now, I've read the book a couple of times, including some of the 1
spirit
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 | 03:32 PM
Mark 12:17
mary jane
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 | 08:21 PM
Mark 12:17 !! Exactly...but only one piece of the puzzle.
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 08:22 AM
I don't get what that verse has to do with this...

Mark 12:17: And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

The verses just prior are a parable, and then the people are asking Jesus if they should pay tribute to Caesar. He asks whose face is on a coin - and when they tell Him it is Caeser, verse 17 is his reply.

So - are you saying that THIS verse helps prove Jesus is Caesar?? I don't quite understand.
mary jane
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 01:30 PM
Well, let's have Carotta answer the question:

"The credit business had come to a standstill since Caesar had gone to war against Pompeius. The hope of a general remission of debt induced the debtors not to pay back their debts and the creditors to seek compensation by buying on credit themselves.

Caesar rejected the general remission of debt by pointing out that he had the most debts of all - he was even loaned money by his soldiers at the beginning of the civil war - and he wanted to take the responsibility for that: after all, he planned further loans. His financial needs were critical: He needed money to pay the soldiers whom he needed to get at the money - as he superbly described the cycle to the Senate. So in Solomon-like fashion he decided that all interest payments made during the interim period were to go toward paying off the principle, and on the other hand that the value of the goods before the onset of the civil war should be the basis for all further calculations. He established special commissions to make the assessments. With these measures he lowered the debt by a quarter and managed to set business back on track again. [SUET. Jul. 42; DIO CASS. HR 42.50.4 & 42.51.1-3]

Mark confuses this assessment of debts with an assessment of tax and makes a question of taxation out of it:

'And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And the said unto him, Caesar's. And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.' [Mk. 12: 13-17]"

[continued]
mary jane
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 | 01:31 PM
[continued]

"Apparently Mark was misled by the loan-word k
Gabriel
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 07:57 AM
"What is the evidence that Jesus Christ lived in this world as a man?(...)The first historical mention of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, was made by the Christian Father, St. Irenaeus, about the year 190 A.D. The only earlier mention of any of the Gospels was made by Theopholis of Antioch, who mentioned the Gospel of John in 180 A.D. History must be founded upon genuine documents or on living proof. Were a man of today to attempt to write the life of a supposed character of a hundred and fifty years ago, without any historical documents upon which to base his narrative, his work would not be a history, it would be a romance. Not a single statement in it could be relied upon.(Marshall J. Gauvin)" Therefore, what evidence based upon the Gospels may prove that Jesus (that we are not even sure that existed) was Julius Caesar? By the way, Mary Jane, the ones who wrote the book of Mark, did it in gentile Greek...Maybe, it was written earlier by the very same Julius (just kidding). The point is not trying to explain an hoax with another one.Luke's gospel: Go out as lambs among wolves (10:3). Does it look like a Roman Empire General quote to you? (nice site by the way)
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
 Member
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 08:04 AM
8-/ I was really just hoping for a single-post answer. But thanks.
mary jane
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 | 05:05 PM
Nothing in the Bible is historical evidence. Some call it historiography, some theology from history, hagiography etc. But it doesn't change the fact that there isn't a single Christian or non-Christian source that gives historical evidence on the life of Jesus, the way it is portrayed in scripture. But to return to the topic: I'm not trying to explain a hoax with another one. Neither of them is a hoax. Some people like Joseph Atwill like to call Christianity a satirical joke, but it isn't. Of course the Gospels alone do not give any historical proof on a Jesus-Caesar parallel, but the synoptic comparison of the Gospels to the original historical texts on the Roman civil war leaves no space for an alternative interpretation. These two stories are not autonomous, they are linked and synchronized from Gallia/Gallilaea to Jesus' and Caesar's crucifixion and ascension...names, famous words, incidents and places match - sometimes word for word, even the style of Mark is the same as Plutarch's Caesar-biography, the same dramaturgy, structure and oddities...this may be museum of hoaxes, but in this case you seem to see a hoax where there is none.
greg
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 | 08:33 PM
along the same lines don't forget to check out Alvin Kuhn's detailed dissection of the the Bible ...

http://www.theosophical.ca/LostLight1.htm
mary jane
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 | 07:59 AM
How can Jesus have been "Nun" - or generally: based on some kind of older myth - if he was Caesar (as a man) and is Divus Iulius (as a god)? If the Gospel is only a rewriting of true historical accounts (civil war, Rome), then how can Jesus be based on a myth? Actually, if Mr. Kuhn, and many of the other charlatans (or plain weirdos!) proposing similar quatsch, are supposed to be right, the life of Caesar itself would have had to be based on all of these outrageous myths. You needn't read books on Roman history to know that there is no "Nun" in Caesar.

Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.