Maegan
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 | 02:06 PM
I did a search, didn't turn up anything that seemed to match this story...If it happened in the 70s, it probably wouldn't be on the Sixty Minutes webpage (which I checked), or Parade's site...Any names...? I searched for a car named Melvin...no luck. Any other info? |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 | 03:09 PM
I haven't heard of this, but I'll do some research to see what I can dig up. Though 70-80 mpg doesn't seem that outlandish. In Europe they have tiny smart cars that get great gas mileage. Of course, you can't get them here in America, though I've heard that BMW is thinking of introducing one soon. |
Terry Austin
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 | 03:18 PM
The problem with the 70-80 mpg cars in the US is that the only way to get the kind of mileage is to sacrifice mass, which sacrifices safety. There are cars on the road today that get 50+ mpg (at least officially), but they are about as small and light - and still able to pass the crash tests - as possible with today's technology. So 70-80 isn't at all out of the realm of what's possible in the next few years.
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Nick
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 | 04:52 PM
what one must remember about American cars is their crash tests are much more rigorous- as it is assumed that the average American exercises his right not to wear a seatbelt. As a result, bigger, sturdier, more enviromentally detrimental cars are seen on american roads than in europe. |
Paul
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 | 06:14 PM
How many kilometres to the litre would that be?
We got the VW Lupo 3.0.
Doesn't mean it has a 3 litre engine, but it uses only 3 litres of fuel on 100 kilometres! |
Montague
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 | 10:10 AM
You are thinking of the Dale. The "woman" in question was, as was self-evident to some of us and should have been obvious to everyone at the time, a transvestite. I believe that Car & Driver published an article on the whole affair a few years back. |
Montague
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 | 10:17 AM
Self-correction - she was a transsexual. There is a distinction. No value judegement meant on her lifestyle, but one suspects there may have been an underlying element of self-deception. Or so it would seem to a lay person. |
Montague
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 | 11:08 AM
This link has some more information, and the names square with what I remember. http://www.3wheelers.com/dale.html
And yes, I am having a slow day at the office.
LOL |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 | 11:20 AM
That's a really good find. I love it when questions about totally obscure subjects can actually get answered. It took two months, but the question was answered. |
Captain Al
in Vancouver Island, Canada
Member
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 | 03:54 PM
I have a 1991 Pontiac Firefly. On a recent trip over the Rocky Mountains from British Columbia to Alberta, I measured my mileage at 51 mpg. Some diesel cars like the VW turbo diesel Jetta get around 60 mpg.
I'm sure that if 70-80 mpg is attainable, it must be about the theoretical maximum fuel economy. After all, there is a finite amount of energy in a gallon of fuel. Like one commentor said, the only way to get better now is to reduce weight. Unless you want a motorcycle or go-cart, how can we expect better?
This scam is similar to those "special carburetors", talked about for many years, that promised fantastic gas mileage. But of course, the oil companies bought all the patents to keep them off the market! |
RJ
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 | 11:49 PM
I remember the Dale it from when I was a kid back in the 1970's.During the gas crises then.
My dad had a broucher on it.
Can't give ya info,but I thought it was called the Dale.Been to many years gone by,but it is an interesting part of american history. |
Tare
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 | 11:10 AM
there is a story airing on Unsolved mysteries about the Dale wich was the "Wonder Car" of the 70's. Designed by Elizabeth Dale, a transexual, the car was suspose to be a crunch on the energy crisis of the 70's. You can get more info on the story from Unsolved Mysteries. |
Rene Clarke
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 | 11:12 AM
"Her" name was Liz Carmichael. The car "Dale". Ms. Carmichael wound up only having a two year suspended sentence and currently lives in (ironically) Dale, TX as a private citizen. |
John
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 | 04:27 PM
Holy Smokes! I posted this question over a year ago and stopped looking for additional responses after a week. I checked the thread today on a whim and found the answers all laid out. Thanks, guys! |
j rogers
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 | 12:37 PM
I just saw an Unsolved Mysteries about Liz. The car was the Dale. It's was interesting to see how easily she/he talked the investers out of so much money with out any real proof of a product. |
Dempsey
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 | 06:23 PM
Hey i just watched it on unsolved mysterious today too!!! I cant believe she fooled everybody like that, i find it quite funny tho. To bad it wasnt real, it was an ugly car but who cares with gas mileage like that. |
Larry
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 | 02:22 PM
Wow! is this a surprise. I was just on eBay looking on how to sell my original Dale Automobile brochure and couldn't find any others. I googled Dale and came up with this forum. I was in the Porsche business in the 70's and was approached by Liz to invest in "her" company. I actually thought about it for a "minute". Whew! Any body know what my original brochure might be worth? |
Ron Friedland
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 | 08:36 PM
Hey people...
I actually lived on the same block as Liz Carmichael and her family -- I was 13-14 at the time, and hung out with his/her kids... never saw the Dale car parked out in the driveway, though...lol... Weird family. There was an "aunt" who I believe turned out to be the wife, three daughters and an older son...and there might have been a baby, too... One day when I was in their house I saw all of the wigs, makeup, girdles, etc... didn't think much of it at the time, as a naive early teen, but it sure fit the picture once all the news came out... I remember the local news did a very positive story about the car and the "woman", film clips showing it driving, espousing all the P.R. hype... good idea; too bad it never came out...
I wrote a song about it soon after: The Ballad of the Dale... some lyrics: (go easy on me, I was maybe 15 when I wrote it!)
There once was a car that they called Dale
Nobody thought that it would fail
They said it was made from original parts
Later they found it was from many different cars
An Indiana farm girl, Mrs. Carmichael
Came up with the dream to make this car
Would only cost 1900 dollars
If only it would live up to par...
Supposedly went 70 miles on a gallon
Three wheels was all that it had
There would be 88,000 by the end of its first summer
It drove a lot of people mad...
People came from miles around
To get a glimpse of the Dale
Another startling discovery was found
That this lady was a male....
And that's the story of the Dale...
Cheers, all! |
pnamajck
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 | 02:09 PM
greets to all . . . first-time poster here.
i found your message boards while scouring google search engine . . . using "the dale automobile back in the 70's" as search filter.
same as john's original post . . . i also found nothing else using the filter stated above. the search parameters "Liz Carmichael" returned all sorts of hits. i found the postings in this message board entertaining . . . amazed that others out here remembered this americana back in the mid 70's . . . hats off to everyone. i never had a brochure . . . but i had kept the article posted by car 'n driver for a couple decades. no longer have those magazines. <sigh>
ok . . . so Jerry Dean Michael had medical operation and became Liz Carmichael . . . and proceeded to bilk investors of a nice chunk of change.
how about the phrase "history repeats itself" . . . you all heard of that? check out the link here 'n see if you think it is genuine or another soon-to-be hoax :
http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/
i think private enterprises are really just in their infancy . . . spawned by the internet and other issues of proliferation.
pnamajck |
Guy Cornyay
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 | 11:11 AM
Carmichael actually died in 2004... |
Lani
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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 | 01:28 PM
To Guy Cornyay: Do you know where she died, and if she ever had the SexChange surgery? I saw the "Unsolved Mysteries" episode where they caught up with her near Austin, Texas and she was still pre-op (still a male). It made me wonder what happened to all of that money she took. |
fjp
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 | 06:37 PM
The sales literature for the Dale gave the address for the company as 16055 Ventura Boulevard in Encino, California. Thanks to the wonders of Google Street View, you can see that at that precise address is now the California Center for Plastic Surgery. Appropriate in an ironic sort of way . . . . |
ROBERT HAMMER
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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 | 01:49 PM
Not only do I remember the whole story,I actually
own the "original" sales/marketing brochure on the "Dale" ,but also 2 more vehicles Carmichael
promised to market!!The "Vanagen"&the;"Revelle"
+the original solicitation/marketing letter from
"Twentieth Century Motor Car Corp" G.Elizabeth Carmichael's company! |
MissC
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 | 09:27 AM
Carmichael did not die in 2004. She is still alive and living with her daughter in Austin, Texas. |
Lani
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 | 07:23 PM
MissC in Austin: Did Elizabeth ever have the surgery? Galveston=EXPENSIVE! But elsewhere?? |
Greg
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 | 09:16 AM
how about the phrase "history repeats itself" . . . you all heard of that? check out the link here 'n see if you think it is genuine or another soon-to-be hoax :
http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/
This is to Guy Cornyay from New Juersy his post above
*************************************************
It's people like you who start ugly roomers, If you had dome your home work before opening your big mouth you would find this is a legitimate company. they have several prototypes not like the "Dale" were there was no cars at all, the other thing is, they had the yellow car at the NY Auto show in 08 were over 1.5 million people saw and many sat in the car, just recently they obtained third party verification on there mileage with a high of over 300 mpg and as low as 122 mpg........Guy Cornyay you should go crawl back under your rock |
Jerry
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 | 12:54 PM
MissC in Austin: can you contact me about Elizabeth? |
B
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 | 02:46 PM
Miss C-
You have your facts wrong. She did die in Feb. of 2004 of cancer. Her body was donated to science. This was my "mema"... of course, this is how I knew her before I moved here. She (he) was my mother's father. My paternal grandmother was the one who showed me the Unsolved Mystries episode, until then I had no clue. |
MissC
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 | 08:01 PM
B in AR: My facts are absolutely correct. If you are Liz' granddaughter, prove it. What is your father's name? |
B
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 | 10:47 AM
MissC-
She is gone and has been for five years now. I don't know where you think you are getting your facts from but they are wrong. Believe what you want though. I am sure I won't deter you. This was my MATERNAL grandfather (my mom's dad) and my mom's name is Shawn. She is the youngest daughter. Jerry Dean ("Carmichael" as you called her) had 2 boys and 3 girls. The middle girl died in '93 and left behind one son in which my mema raised...satisfied? |
Ron
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 | 12:31 PM
I would vouch for B in Ar... as I mentioned above, I knew Shawn, her two sisters, her oldest brother, and the baby at the time, when we were all children.
Sorry to hear about the passing of the middle sister... |
B
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 | 12:41 PM
Thanks Ron, I don't know if you remember but my mom and my Aunt Wendi (the one who passed) were a couple of years a part but looked like twins. I remember sometimes mixing them up when I was really little. The oldest daughter looked a lot like my Mema (Vivian, my mom's mother) |
Ron
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 | 01:31 PM
B, I do remember; although since it's been so many years and I'd forgotten all the names, there was definitely a strong resemblance between Wendi and Shawn... and as I recall, they were similar in size for being two years apart... since I was a bit older, I probably related more to the oldest sister (I'm sorry I can't recall her name), who did have a resemblance to your grandmother, and occasionally (when he was around) your uncle...and I do remember Vivian (she was called Aunt Viv by the kids, at least around those of us in the neighborhood)... she was always nice to me...
I'm glad to hear life went on for the kids, even with what must have been quite the tumultuous lifestyle for a number of years... good luck to you and your family...
Ron |
B
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 | 09:48 AM
Ron
The Aunt you are referring to is Candi. |
Ron
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 | 11:50 PM
Thank you, B... Yes, it was Candi. And she did look a lot like Vivian. And as I recall, the older brother facially had a strong resemblance to Jerry Dean... |
Lani
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 | 08:25 AM
To B in Ar: You might want to correct and update "Liz Carmichael's" Wikipedia page. Apparently, many people still remember 'the Dale' car incident, and your grandfather's role in it. I know I do. |
George Morales
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 | 04:06 PM
B from Arkansas,are you Bridgett, James daughter? |
B
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 | 04:47 PM
George- Yes I am. You knew my dad? |
George Morales
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 | 05:14 PM
I Didn't know just your dad, I knew you too.Don't you remember the rose seller who used to buy you kid gifts and take you to play with your Dad. I lived at Green Pastures and was a route driver when you moved to Arkansas. How'w your brothers danny and scotty doing? Send me an e-mail to let me know how you guys are doing? My e-mail is .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) |
Laura F.
Member
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Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 | 10:58 AM
She's not dead...but apparently she wants everyone to think she is. Once a scammer, always a scammer. |
Ed Samson
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 | 08:21 AM
Being in aftermarket automotive research at the time, I remember following this story as it unfolded in the trade press. I just read, on 3-wheelers.com, that one of the Dale cars is at the Petersen Automotive Museum in Los Angeles, USA. |
Carl Carpenter
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 | 11:31 PM
I remember the Dale car well. when I was a senior in high school I would frequently visit the 20th Century Motor Car Company in Sherman Oaks/ Encino, Ca. They had the car on a turntable. I have an original information packet that was mailed to me from the company in 1975 detailing their car and future offerings. I also have several brochures.
I picked up the brochures when the car was on display at the L.A car show, right as the fraud story was hitting the news, thinking that they would be a valuable future momento.
Carl |
