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Theo van Gogh
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Posted By:
Don_Rockard
Nov 02, 2004
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Theo van Gogh was a dutch director/writer who said what he wanted whenever he wanted to say it.
He was a critic of our multi-culture society.
He made a movie "Submission" (SEE IT, you can download it on eDonkey, KaaZaa) together with Ayaan Hirshi Ali (an ex-muslim) about the abuse of women in the name of the quran.
Today november 2, 2004 he was murdered.
By a muslim.
Apperently you're not allowed to tell your opinion anymore.
And you are worried about being investigated by the NSA, CIA or FBI?????
This is a sign.....I'm telling you.
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Comments
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 12:31 PM
I agree, Paul, it is a sign. It's a sign that if Mr. Van Gogh spoke out against Christian practices, he might be killed by a Christian. Don't suggest that Muslims are more prone to violence than other cultures. Extremists and fundamentalists of all religions are dangerous, not just Muslims. I live in the US, where we claim free speach also, and many have gotten a bullet in the back for their troubles, and not by Muslims. Some by Christian people who claimed to be doing the work of God. It's a wacky world, and I salute Mr. Van Gogh for his outspoken ways, but let's not characterize Muslims as predators on the prowl. An unfortunate, tragic loss. My sympathies. |
Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 12:44 PM
That's my point.
If he spoke out against christians and was killed by a christian.
SAME THING.
It shouldn't happen!!
Religion will destroy this world. |
Lothar Ignatius
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 01:12 PM
While I agree that this sort of thing should never happen. And while I believe that our differences in religion seem to be causing enormous amounts of undue suffering, I can really see how you make the leap to comparing it with people "worried" about the "NSA, CIA or FBI."
Isn't the FBI currently run by a fundamentalist Christian? (And didn't he cover up the statue of Justice based on his religious beliefs?" |
Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 01:15 PM
Lothar, that leap goes the LJ thread.
It's about people giving their opion and being investigated by government. |
Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 01:18 PM
opion?????
How did THAT get there
opinion
(Alex: if you're converting this into a true message board: we need an edit option 😊 ) |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 01:30 PM
You can actually edit posts if you hit the preview button first.
When the message board add-on comes out for the software that I use to run the main weblog, then I'm going to fully upgrade this to a real message board. The software company says it'll be out sometime soon, but they're not giving an exact date. |
Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 01:41 PM
English is not my first lingo so sometimes I notice these errors later (but I hate them).
Any thoughts on the subjects Alex.
(you can decline: no problem) |
The Curator
in San Diego
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 02:33 PM
Things like this should never happen. But it's when the government itself tries to stop people from voicing their opinion that you really need to worry. In other words, a random religiously-inspired homicide doesn't scare me anywhere near as much as an institutional effort to suppress free speech would.
So I'm not sure it's a sign of anything more than the existence of hatred and intolerance in the world... which has always been the case. |
Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 02:37 PM
Lothar made me think (for once) so I'd like to add this:
I'm an atheist and I didn't like Theo van Gogh very much.
It's just that you can't speak out anymore. Our Theo van Gogh (AND Pim Fortuyn) is your Martin Luther King, your JFK.
"Stick your neck out and we'll get you."
That's where we (the dutch) are going now. |
Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 | 03:22 PM
Oh come on Alex.
Those things don't start at government level.
They are encouraged by groups of "rebels" and when all hell breaks out, the "rebels" take over and deny they ever started anything. |
Maegan
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 | 01:09 PM
If everyone would worry about their own business, regardless of religious/non-religious association, we wouldn't have this problem. Lots of people have spoken out against my own religious affiliation, but I just ignore them, because I know that according to what I believe...I am right. It sounds a little self-righteous, but I can only be judged by my God, or other righteous people of my own Faith. In a place where I am around people who do not share my views, I don't talk about them unless someone else brings it up to me. I simply act the way my God says I should act & hope my actions show that we're not zealots, crazy, or a cult. |
Matt
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 | 09:53 AM
I don't think it's the true believers who are a danger. By that I mean the ones who try to focus primarily on obeying everything their religion calls for. That generally means a lot of effort dealing with their own moral shortcomings and are largely circumscribed by rules against murder, deception, and other things most organized religions tend to be against. They have their own morality to worry about first and foremost. When this sort becomes an extremist, you wind up with monks or Amish, not terrorists. Worst these ones are likely to do is preach to everyone and tell unbelievers they'll be facing a bad afterlife that these people don't believe in anyway.
No, it's the partial believers who are dangerous. They're the ones who get obsessed with one particular area of their religion and make it the key while ignoring any other inconvenient commands that get in the way of carrying out that theme, or pick a cause which may or may not come from their religion and take religion primarily as a means to support it. They would rather think they're doing the will of God by murdering an enemy of their faith than contemplate that God already told them his will is "Thou Shalt Not Murder."
It's very sad that Theo van Gogh was murderd for voicing his opinion, and sadder that this sort of thing probably isn't going to go away. It's in human nature, I think. |
Maegan
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 | 11:36 AM
Inhuman nature. |
Paul
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 | 06:49 PM
Thank you for all you opinions.
But this has started something in little Holland....as I predicted.
Ayaan Hirshi Ali and another right wing politician have gone into hiding. 7 fundementalist muslims have been arrested and charged for the murder and/or conspiracy.
As a result mosques and a muslim school have been targeted for torching and even a bombing.
This is not the end of it. |
KUPRA
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 | 12:17 AM
im looking for this film
any one have film or
can you show me were i can download
please email me
Thank You |
Jared
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 | 02:00 AM
Matt, i disagree with you, namely because it is within the Muslim/Islam context to push that sort of behavior. If you have done any research into that religion you would realize that. That religion as much as they proclaim it is inclined to violence. Take a look at their end of times beliefs
They believe that their "Al Mahdi" will come and with the power of "Jesus Christ", who will likely be a false prophet, to destroy Christianity and Judaeism they will then take over the world and rule it for 7 years afterwhich their judgements will be decided
Their is no reason to believe that these people fully believing in what their Quran says are less likely to kill someone who has demonstrated a weakness in their philosophy. |
Mamduh Shawqi
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 | 08:49 AM
I'm also looking for this film, it was available on iFilm, but not anymore. |
Al
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 | 03:00 PM
yes ... I also believe that christian would not had caused murder if the film were aiming christian oppression. |
Paul
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 | 04:11 PM
I disagree Al.
I believe that most turmoil in the world is caused by religion....closely followed by oil. |
Rex D.
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 | 02:19 PM
Everyone here has great points about this subject, but the problem will always exist as long as we exist. Religion, human ignorance, arrogance, and psychologicaly disturbed individuals will never go away. It seems that just by being human, especially in and over populated world, your going to run into this every which way you turn. A utopian thing would be cool, but we could never have such a thing due to the human factor being present. |
Rex D.
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 | 02:20 PM
I agree Paul |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 | 04:15 PM
it's all about POWER. Oil is the perfect battery. Hydroelectric dams run 24/7/365, but don't generate at full capacity, because there is no giant battery to store the electricity. The same goes for most other kintetic elec generation systems. Faith, however, is The Energizer Bunny of Political and Social Power, because it defies the laws of thermodynamics, in that Faith sometimes generates more power than is given it by nature. When we develop the Giant Awesome Electrical Battery, it'll probably suck us all in just like the False Faith Battery. Absolute Power corrupts AAAsolutely. |
Rex D.
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 | 04:47 PM
What about Zero-Point energy? It's an unlimited supply of power. All we need is to tap into it. You do not need a storage device. A device that could 'tap into' Zero-Point would continually draw energy as needed and never run out. |
paul kann
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 | 02:24 AM
http://torrentreactor.net/view.php?id=5030571
working torrent link for downloading submission |
Daniel
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 | 07:27 PM
Hairy Houdini, you know so little about Chritstianity. A real Christian would tell you than killing (asasination) is a sin. I don't know of Christians killing someone because they criticized Christian faith or teachings. Show me one. |
Hairy Houdini
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 | 07:58 PM
Tell it to the Hebrew voices who've been silenced by Christian Nazis, and Hindus of India beaten and murdered by Christian British, the Hebrews and Moslems persecuted by the Christian Spaniards. Don't get me started, Dude. I could go all night listing groups of "religious" people who've committed heinous acts in defence of their faith or grasp on power. Zealotry of any faith, or lack thereof is dangerous. I offer my sincerest condolences to those impacted by Mr. Van Gogh's asassination, and extend my hope that this unfortunate, terrible act will lead to fuller understanding amongst differing peoples. |
Frankus
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 04:17 AM
SCUSE ME HO?
paul, religion is going to SAVE this world...I.E. Christ's death saves the belivers from the horror of eternal suffering, I.E. The second coming of Christ which will whipe out the sinners and save the true belivers, will indeed punish those not worthy to come into heaven.
Paul you are one of them, compaining about religion.
May god have mercy on your soul. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 08:50 AM
...I can only add that a true undeniable Christian would never (I do mean never) act out the heinous (sp?) things that you have mentioned. Satan has helped perpetrate the idea that "christians" do terrible things in the name of God. Who is a true undeniable Christian? Well, that's between you and God. |
Nick
in Merrie Olde Englande
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 11:20 AM
'Satan has helped perpetrate the idea that "christians" do terrible things in the name of God.'
Satan? "Christians"? Do you honestly think that either the crusades did not happen, but were made up by Satan as a gag, or that the crusaders didn't think they were acting as good Christians? Here's a clue: they did. They thought the best way to glorify God was to take the Holy Land by force, and it mattered not one jot how many Moslems died in the process. And if you asserted they were not "true undeniable Christians" they would probably have killed you too. |
Maegan
in Tampa, FL - USA
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 | 12:51 PM
I'm sorry, did I say I didn't believe these things didn't happen? Not once. I know the crusades happened, I know that Jews, Catholics, & Gypsies were killed in the Holocaust. The only problem with being a Christian is that you can't prove it. It is often thought of as more of an attitude of morality than an experience or lifestyle.
Nothing was 'made up'. Satan set his plan into motion & it worked. Now, people hate Christians because of their 'bigoted & hateful' ideas. God created Satan, the Earth, man & woman. Satan is a created being. He could never have more authority than God, but he wanted it. Essentially any life away from God is torment (please don't tell me you aren't tormented, that it not the point I am trying to make), so Satan was to live apart from God. Once Satan was on Earth he tried to take control of the only things that had authority here. Man & woman. When Satan tricked the woman into eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil, & she in turn gave it to the man...this seperated them from God also. This is why atonement was created. Something needed to bridge that gap. You had to go to God to atone for your sins. Blood was the only price high enough to cover 'original' sin. This laid the course for the Birth of Christ, His death, & His resurrection. Accepting this, knowing it, believing it is the only way you are a "Christian".
God has sent His people into war. Think King Saul, David (remember Goliath?). God told David to go into a town & kill the people there. David was killing people who were worshipping false gods. "Vengence is mine," says the Lord. God sent David, because people seeing David the Hebrew killing the "un-clean" would only glorify the Hebrew God. Were the muslims killed during the Holy Crusades worshipping false gods? I believe so. Did God send someone to kill them? Possibly. I don't have any way of knowing...since I wasn't really around at the time. The Haulocost...terrible, awful...but did God send Hitler to 'cleanse' anything? I don't believe so. Hitler's mind had been filled with strange ideas about people...ideas given to him by who? Satan. Yes, His people prayed & worshiped & asked to be delivered from their Earthly Hell. God had given them their answer & they had rejected it. Being 'Jewish' is like being black or white...it's your race. Not your religion. God gave them their prophet & they killed him. But it was always to be so.
I really didn't want to turn this into any kind of lecture or sermon...but I felt that some things needed an explanation or you wouldn't understand. This is my last post on the topic. |
Phillip
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 | 10:40 PM
Of course the crusades happened. After the Muslim armies conquered most of the Middle East, murdering Christians and Jews, the church at Constantinople asked for help and the church in Rome responded by sending over troops. I am not ashamed of the Crusades, it bought time for Europe and saved it from being conquered and driven into slavery. |
Marcuets
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 | 01:52 AM
my telephone number contain number 666. |
Marcuets
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 | 01:48 AM
Jesus is not god , he is prophet ( human being ), but fool predict him is god , and European people , slander by altering holy book , did you know why ? that because when they open " dead case" jesus , in the reality he is in and do not like story . and us merely human being influenced by hateful passion , war , grinding , and stupidity . Christian people the example trust reincarnation , though that have never been taught by Jesus .
And me trust to my god , because each every me pray God always granting it , I ask rain God give it , I ask wind God give it , and I volunteer die for the shake of him . |
Marcuets
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 | 04:51 AM
No people here ..... this forum noooot popular |
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Note: This thread is located in the Old Forum of the Museum of Hoaxes.
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