The Museum of Hoaxes
Lobsang Rampa
Posted By:

Jun 12, 2004
 Your review on TL Rampa is rather outdated and is borne out of an incredible constipated realisation of truth. I have studied his works for the last 25 years and boy are you WRONG! But then you have no knowledge of transmigration and the higher dimensions that pervades all universes. Learn to see within yourself first before you write such drivel. The ultimate HOAX is you, as you believe in your limited 2D reality. If you practised 1 iota of TLR's techniques - you would see the truth for yourself instead of begging (for Hoaxes). But then idiots like yourself are what makes the web fun, I suppose. So dream on.
Category: Celebrities; Replies: 216

Comments
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D
Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 | 01:48 AM
What the HELL are you talking about?
The Curator
in San Diego
 Member
Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 | 11:04 AM
"you have no knowledge of transmigration and the higher dimensions that pervades all universes."

I have to admit, you got me there. Guilty as charged.

(Oh, and this is what he's talking about: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/thirdeye.html)
Charybdis
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 | 01:13 PM
Man, Alex. You must really be lame if you're still stuck in a 2D reality. Try moving into the 3rd dimension for awhile. If you like it maybe you can upgrade to the 4D world with the rest of us. (Don't get started on 10D, Please!) 😉
Tanyana
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 | 09:01 AM

HEy all,

All i can say about lobsang rampa is that he has changed many peoples lives and for the better.
Who really cares if he made it all up or if he didn't..the FACT is is that what he wrote is actually true, and anyone who studies metaphysics will agree with me.
There is unfortunately for you sceptics truth to his writings.
And unless you've engaged in meditation or OBE...you really are making an uneducated statement.

I myself dont really know who lobsang rampa was ...whether he was a fraud ... or whether he was taken over by a lama...but at the end of the day i truly dont' mind.

He gave me insight into things from a young age that have kept me grounded throughout this life.

So be he a plumber or be he a sage...he reflected onto us the 'true' beauty of our ability.

And for that...i'll keep reading his books, which are brilliantly written by the way, if you havn't read them.

x
a reader
Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 | 08:04 AM
rest in peace lobsang rampa
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 | 03:30 AM
Tanyana said:

"All i can say about lobsang rampa is that he has changed many peoples lives and for the better.
Who really cares if he made it all up or if he didn't..the FACT is is that what he wrote is actually true, and anyone who studies metaphysics will agree with me."

"I myself dont really know who lobsang rampa was ...whether he was a fraud ... or whether he was taken over by a lama...but at the end of the day i truly dont' mind."

Are you really saying that you DON'T CARE that your guru is a complete fraud?? Man, it's one thing to be a run-of-the-mill mark; it's another thing altogether to KNOW you're a mark and not care.

Please explain how he could have "made it all up" and yet it is "actually true." That seems like an obvious contradiction to me.

Another question for you to ponder: Why would a man who possessed absolute truth have to invent a fictitious persona to write about it? If it's the "truth" he writes about which is important, wouldn't it be just as true if he wrote about it as his real self? It's well-established that Rampa wasn't who he claimed to be. Why did he lie?
Nick
in Merrie Olde Englande
 Member
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 | 04:42 AM
you guys are all spellin 'llama' wrong

sorry to be pedantic

(can't wait to see reaction to this)
Pedantic
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 | 10:04 AM
A lama with one l is a priest,
A llama with two l's is a beast,
A lllama with three l's does not exist.
Wally
in La La Land
 Member
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 | 10:40 AM
Anyone actually know a person he actually heled? Seems to me most of the people who follow this stuff have been screwed up by it...

Wally
Citizen Premier
in spite of public outcry
 Member
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 | 03:17 PM
The Lama, by Ogden Nash:

The one-l lama,
He's a priest.
The two-l llama,
He's a beast.
And I will bet
A silk pajama
There isn't any
Three-l lllama.*




*The author's attention has been called to a type of conflagration known as the three-alarmer. Pooh.
drey
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 | 04:36 PM
lobsang rampa thank you for the gifts you left,your book's came via my nan and mom to me you make perfect sense.20yrs on and your word's are still making sense.
crankymediaguy
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 12:57 AM
trey said:

"lobsang rampa thank you for the gifts you left,your book's came via my nan and mom to me you make perfect sense.20yrs on and your word's are still making sense."

I channel for Lobsang Rampa and he says "You're welcome" for the books. He wants you to know that he's working on a new book in the Afterlife. You're going to love this one; it has pop-ups!
drey
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 11:40 AM
thats good humour man! i like it,makes me think maybe were the pop-ups from life to life,wheather you jest or not fake or real i got some good out of them.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 02:21 PM
drey said:

"thats good humour man! i like it,makes me think maybe were the pop-ups from life to life,wheather you jest or not fake or real i got some good out of them."

No, I'm not a Good Humor man; I don't sell ice cream. I'm just a humble man who is trying to use his channeling ability for the good of Mankind.

Lobsang (or "Lob" as he's asked me to call him)tells me that he only has one of the pop-ups for the new book worked out so far. It will be a picture of his face in which his famous "third eye" will actually pop out from the page. It's very dramatic, Lob tells me. There will be more; I'm transcribing as fast as Lob can "dictate." Yes, I'm given the honor of actually writing down Lob's words.
drey
Member
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 03:02 PM
humble! what's wrong with selling ice cream (organic green n blacks pref)
David B.
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 05:57 PM
what's wrong with selling ice cream

It's cruel to cows! Making them stand in refridgerated milking sheds for hours at a time! Ought not to be allowed!

(Except for pistachio.)
ro
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 05:57 PM
I have to say I really enjoy everyone's ability to analyze.


For this specific topic I would watch the "believer's" comments for enlightenment.


I really have to believe that truely enlightened people need not be upset by a handful of hoax fans.
Peter
in Melbourne, Australia
 Member
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 | 06:14 PM
"Your review on TL Rampa is rather outdated and is borne out of an incredible constipated realisation of truth."

So your the kind of person I save up my farts for. A good fart is always handy for getting rid of people you don't like.

Peter
Gabriel
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 | 11:07 PM
As someone who just started studying tibetan buddhism, I would like to say that the very explanation that Hoskins (Rampa) gives about how the soul of a tibetan lama transmigrated into his body is highly in contradiction with buddhist teachings (even if we assume that all the mystic stories about tibetan lamas are true).

Also, anyone who has spent any time with a lama would know that they would never openly speak about their "supernatural powers". Even a normal monk wouldn't openly say he has this or that quality, such as erudition, compassion, as it would be a sign of ego (all the buddhist teachings' goal are to get rid of ego). And to the people who say they don't care that he is a phony, if you think he might be lying about is identity, what kind of credibility does that give him. He wanted to expose his thoughts on spirituality, which might have been good. But he tried to gain a reputation by borrowing the title of a lama. That in itself is a sign that he is missing spiritual insight. Even if it was true, as a tibetan, wouldn't he know that they wouldn't beleive his story and simply have released his work under his westener name ? Even the Dalai Lama stated that his works are fictive and imaginary. I just bought one of his books (the tibetan name got me) and got a weird feeling when i started reading it. After about four pages, is was completely sure that he was no lama.

The importance of the lineage is predominent in tibetan buddhism, it must go back to the buddha. The teachings are passed on from lama to student. It is very dangerous if you read a little and think that you are spiritualy accomplished. If fact the opposite occurs, you use spiritual techniques to strenghten you ego. It is my opinion that Rampa's lineage goes only as far as his own ego.

I've read stories about masters with spiritual powers, but they always use them to teach Dharma. This guy seems to focus on the powers themselves and consider them the goal to accomplish.

Sorry for being so serious, I know you guys tried to lighten the debate with jokes, but i recently saw what kind of mental damage a wrong approach to spirituality can produce.
drey
Member
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 | 06:18 PM
rampa's book are good! for the time they were written and the life story, true or false, turned a lot of people on to buddhism including myself,occult knowledge is useless its just fuel for the ego as gab say's ;untill one sit's it meditation and quiet's the mind of what it thinks is this and that .
crankymediaguy
Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 | 12:42 AM
drey said:

"rampa's book are good! for the time they were written and the life story, true or false, turned a lot of people on to buddhism including myself,"

So, it's OK with you if the entire story is bullshit (as we know it is)? He lied to you and you have no problem with that? Interesting.

"occult knowledge is useless its just fuel for the ego as gab say's ;untill one sit's it meditation and quiet's the mind of what it thinks is this and that ."

I have NO idea what that is supposed to mean.
Keith
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 | 06:06 PM
I read 'The Third Eye' as a boy when I was about eight, and found it quite fascinating. Could well be that I was being taken for a ride with regard to the factual content of the book, but if you read it purely as a story you'll probably enjoy it.
Anyone here ever read C.S. Lewis's trilogy of books Out of the Silent Planet, Voyage to Venus and That Hideous Strength? The last one is writeen in a different way, but I sometimes wonder how the first two books would have been recieved if written by an unknown author and published as factual accounts of out-of-body trips to other planets...
Yar!
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 | 11:32 PM
Ok. I am a pretty open minded guy. I've even had some unexplained spiritual experiences myself.

I just read "The Third Eye", and I gotta say, I am a skeptic too. I read the Foreward to Second Edition before actually reading the book. It's written by the author. He's goes through quite a litany of hate about the unbelievers and the people that are jealous of him. And then the last paragraph of the foreward reads:

"Will you, then read The Third Eye bearing in mind my definte, positive assurance that the whole thing is true? I am what I claim to be. What am I? read the 'Authors Preface' and the book and then you will see! Then read my other books--ALL of them!"

Nothing like be told what to do and what to believe, eh? Dude, what's with the desperation? If you really went through all the drama and adventure you wrote about, you think you'd be pretty chill about what us mere mortals think about your books. But hey, I like your salesmanship. (by the way, book purchased used $3.50)

Plus, ya know, T-Lob is not at all modest befitting a man of such insance spiritual training. He even slags the Dalai Lama about not being clairvoyant compared to his abilities. (page 173)

I also like the part about the 10 day exam where he had to sleep in the same room he was taking the tests. And nothing but rancid tea? That's freaking hell! Forget hanging with the body breakers, that's nothing.

Interested to see what others post.

Out!
cosmic man
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 | 03:57 PM
All perspectives are valid. When each of us wraps a belief around our infinite consciousness you get seperation of varying degrees. To truly know who Lobsang Rampa was is a simple matter of applying his words. Get out of your body conciously, and go to the Akashic records, and ask for a viewing of Lobsang Rampa.

To anyone who is wishing to truly Know the infinite essence of this being you will have to first drop the lenses of Religions. personal beliefs and spiritual levels and then you'll see truly.

For anyone needing to validate his "truth", physically, you will have to be able to talk to the Great 13th dalai lama and the State Oracle of Tibet both of whom have taken astral airlines flight "light speed" out of this universe.

Having shared this thought, what does it matter really.

Once you think you've Got It, an infinity of more is waiting in the wings so to speak.

Namaste and good journeys! Main
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 | 12:38 AM
cosmic man said:

"All perspectives are valid. When each of us wraps a belief around our infinite consciousness you get seperation of varying degrees. To truly know who Lobsang Rampa was is a simple matter of applying his words. Get out of your body conciously, and go to the Akashic records, and ask for a viewing of Lobsang Rampa."

We KNOW who "Lobsang Rampa" was. He was a British guy who pretended to be someone else and wrote several books based on the deception.

If you truly believe that "all perspectives are valid," then you must immediately send me $1000. Upon receipt, I will GUARANTEE you eternal life. That's my perspective and, according to you, it is valid. If you don't have a thousand bucks, send me as much as you have. I'm absolutely serious about this. If you refuse to do this, you are proving that you don't believe what you said.

So, when should I expect the money to arrive?
Peter
in Melbourne, Australia
 Member
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 | 03:23 AM
Has anybody made a documentary or a movie about Lobsang Rampa? It would be interesting to watch
Thomas Tewell
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 | 01:44 PM
All I can say is that I know all that exists in the universe is my brain and when that dies the universe ceases to exist. Does not existence depend on the ability to percieve it? You are all fools! Fool and idiots. I hope you all enjoy a painful mind numbing screaming wipmering death, baecause that is the last thing you will ever feel, so it oughtta be something worth dying for.. As for myself, Im am GONE when I am gone.
Keith
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 | 12:44 PM
Tom lad, you're a bit of a tit.

P.S. You forgot to end your post with

'Aaaahahahahahahahahaaaa....'
andy rogers
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 | 04:57 AM
in 1966 i had an out of body experience. it changed me and my personality forever but i didnt know what had happened to me until i read the lobsang rampa books. it was a great relief to know someone who understood what had happened. i am guessing there are people in mental hospitals who have had similar experiences and not understood them.
i think lobsang rampa is far more evolved than the present day dalai lama. i think jesus was far more advanced than the jewish priests of his time.
in the 1950,s george hunt williamson said that in ancient egypt one of the pharaohs took over another persons body to continue as pharaoh. it is very rare and can only be done for specific spiritual reasons.
when jesus came back after dying on the cross no one recognised him . my theeory is that he took over someone else,s body, came back and went to the south of france with mary magdalene. just a theory.
lobsang rampa is a great introduction to the spiritual life. if you dont believe what he says go to the Hilarion website. this is an ascended master.
May
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 | 04:31 AM
if you wish to know the real truth http://www.tlrampa.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm
robert
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 | 11:43 AM
I read all of his books about 15 years ago

hoax or no, i'll never know

I do know that his books, and carlos casteneda's blew my mind wide open, and pushed my curiosity well beyond the natural paths it would have traveled.

As such i'll always have a nostalgic fondness for those two men...hoaxes or not.

You guys can make little mental voodoo dolls of him, then worship them or flush them down the toilet. Your lives are yours to do with what you will, and everyone needs a hobby.

peace,
Robert
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 | 04:50 PM
robert said:

"I read all of his books about 15 years ago

hoax or no, i'll never know"

The fact is, Robert, that you COULD know if you wanted to. It's very well established that "Rampa" was a fake.

"I do know that his books, and carlos casteneda's blew my mind wide open, and pushed my curiosity well beyond the natural paths it would have traveled."

That's fine but it doesn't change the fact that "Rampa" was a fraud.

"As such i'll always have a nostalgic fondness for those two men...hoaxes or not."

Understandable, but, again, that doesn't change the fact that "Rampa" was a figment of an Englishman's imagination. He presented his story as FACT, not fiction, and thereby took money under false pretenses.

"You guys can make little mental voodoo dolls of him, then worship them or flush them down the toilet. Your lives are yours to do with what you will, and everyone needs a hobby."

What we do here is try to shed light on things which are fraudulent. I think that's important. What you personally derived from "Rampa" (which is, of course, totally subjective) does not invalidate the work of pointing out the fraudulence in his story to those who may be unaware of it.
Narayana
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 | 09:27 PM
Would anybody be willing to tell me exactly what order the books were written in?

I am quite enjoying them!!

I would also like to comment on this debate.

Perhaps until it can be established with certainty that there is no such thing as the spirit, and further still, that it is impossible for one spirit to leave a body and allow another to enter it, it is reasonable to state that this debate is a debate of opinions and beliefs. How foolish it is, indeed, to harm one another based upon a matter of which all sides share a common root - faith.

Peace and love to each of you!!
ate
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 | 07:55 PM
I know Lobsang Rampa has told the truth.

He is a well man, higher in stature than anyone here, those who declare him truthful and those who are disgracing their families by disrespecting such a man.

He is happy to see his words are still carrying on, and he loves you all.
Fortuna
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 | 04:02 PM
I read T. Lobsang Rampa's books over 30 years ago and it was because of him that I pursued and am still pursuing the journey of understanding self and the world around me.

Things are not always as they appear to be. I believe in polyvalent logic, where more than one idea can be true simultaneously. There are many truths.

If one believes one needs the organs called the eyes to see, then one is missing out. I guarantee that when out of the body, hovering in a corner of the ceiling, one can see quite plainly all around one's self without the use of these organs.

Don't believe me. Find out for yourself. It is fairly simple once you get the hang of it.
Cranky Media Guy
Member
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 | 01:17 AM
Fortuna said:

"If one believes one needs the organs called the eyes to see, then one is missing out. I guarantee that when out of the body, hovering in a corner of the ceiling, one can see quite plainly all around one's self without the use of these organs."

Fortuna, this alleged ability can, of course, be tested scientifically. Why don't you contact the James Randi Educational Foundation about applying for their Million Dollar Challenge? If you can prove that you can see without using your eyes, they will give you a million dollars. Pretty good for just doing something that you claim you can do anyway, right? Go to randi.org for more information and please keep us informed about the status of your testing.
ate
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 | 07:36 AM
Cranky Media Guy said, "Why should I believe you"

You shouldn't.

We explore the universe in the next few years.

You die and die an ignorant man.

Then you reincarnate when the time is right, and continue learning.

We. Already. Finished.

Just like Rampa said. You fail if you do not crush the ego which is only skeptical and blasphemous, blindly following and relying on myth and misinformation.

You're response was the funniest.

"A squirrel has found the land of acorns"

Another squirrel, "Oh yea. If you're so sure you've found the land of acorns...then prove it...c'mon prove it...I'll even give you..oh say....TEN WHOLE acorns!"

While the squirrel simply leaves to go to his furtune and treasure, quickly forgetting that people so ignorant ever even existed.

While the other one looks around and wonders why that happen, he accounts the he is smart, and the other one was stupid, for surely if he found something, he would be willing to trade it for...money.

Fade your materialism, it has become you.

If you don't. You will rot with time along with it, and you will suffer the consequences of coming into life and learning nothing at all of a spiritual value.

Your choice. I already know how you shall do.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 | 05:47 PM
ate said:

"Cranky Media Guy said, "Why should I believe you"

You shouldn't.

We explore the universe in the next few years.

You die and die an ignorant man.

Then you reincarnate when the time is right, and continue learning.

We. Already. Finished."

Oh yeah? Well, WE use grammar! So there.

Seriously, I have NO idea what you're talking about. I would suggest that, if you expect to be taken seriously, you drop the pseudo-mystical mumbo jumbo and speak in simple, declarative English so that you can be understood.

By the way, how do you "know" that I am not fully evolved (assuming I understand what you were driving at)? How do you know skepticism isn't the Final Stage of Human Consciousness?

"Your choice. I already know how you shall do."

Really? Tell me what's going to happen to me over the next several months, please. Be specific.
Liam
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 | 05:23 PM
Just a word to cra
Liam
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 | 05:27 PM
Just a word to Cranky Media Guy ,\why are you so caught up on this guy did he push your wrong button some time .Or underneath it all do you really want to belive it too.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 | 12:44 AM
Liam said:

"Just a word to Cranky Media Guy ,\why are you so caught up on this guy did he push your wrong button some time .Or underneath it all do you really want to belive it too."

I LOVE your "reasoning," Liam. I correctly inform people that Lobsang Rampa was a fake and somehow that means that I "really" want to believe in his story. Walk me through that one, please?

Honestly, has it never occurred to you that informing people that someone they put their trust in is a phony is a GOOD thing to do? Are YOU so desperately in need of something to believe in that you don't care when a guru is totally full of shit and misleads those who follow him?

The fact that "Lobsang Ramtha" was not who he claimed to be nor did he do the things he wrote about is indisputable. Why should people contribute to his myth (or, more accurately, LIE)? Don't you believe in truth?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 | 12:47 AM
Oops, I said "Ramtha" when I meant "Rampa." Got my Cosmic Bullshit Artists confused there for a moment. Sorry.
Dizzy
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 | 01:52 PM
I came across a few of his books some years back, at a second hand book store, ive finally gotten around to reading a couple and view it as very enjoyable fiction!
Having said that though who is to say what is fiction and what is truth when it comes down to the mystical, spiritual and religious, giving a quote from THE SAFFRON ROBE "They need what they imagine is proof, but 'proof' examined closely often proves to be illusion, whereas the 'illusion' for which 'proof' was sought is truly the reality"
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 | 04:30 AM
Dizzy said:

"I came across a few of his books some years back, at a second hand book store, ive finally gotten around to reading a couple and view it as very enjoyable fiction!"

So far, so good. Good start, Dizzy.

"Having said that though who is to say what is fiction and what is truth when it comes down to the mystical, spiritual and religious..."

Oops, you went off the track a little bit there, Diz. Listen, it's true that no one has an absolute handle on what's possible in the Universe, but if you tell me there are green monkeys on the dark side of the moon and you can't produce any, I think I have more than a right to call bullshit on you.

Rampa was a proven BS artist. There's just ZERO reason to take him seriously. You had it right in the first paragraph: it's entertaining fiction, but that's all.
squicks
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 | 03:32 PM
"I came across a few of his books some years back, at a second hand book store, ive finally gotten around to reading a couple and view it as very enjoyable fiction!"

Who even cares if it's entertaining? He lied blatently and presented a series of events as actually occuring in his own life. If he was talking about someone else, he should have presented it as such. This makes him a fraud. People were so willing to string up that guy who wrote a million little pieces. Maybe he should have taken a hint from Lobsang and claimed that he was channeling the spirit of another person and writing their biography...
Keith
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 | 05:53 PM
Dizzy, I thought they were entertaining as well, mate!
vick
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 | 02:26 AM
Hey anyone out there actually done astral travelling so we can prove if Lobsang was a fake or not.

I personally beleive what he taught was right,or at least i hope so as i have clung to his teachings all these years and it has helped me get through some tough and trying times.
Stev
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 | 01:12 AM
Vick said:
"Hey anyone out there actually done astral travelling so we can prove if Lobsang was a fake or not."
Yes I have a few times, and interestingly it was by following the technique covered in several of Rampa's books.

Cranky said:
"but if you tell me there are green monkeys on the dark side of the moon and you can't produce any, I think I have more than a right to call bullshit on you."
Actually I don't think Cranky does. It just means that at the moment none of us really knows.

Someone posted earlier that until we can prove that the spirit really doesn't exist, and that a material body really can't be occupied by another spirit, the debate on whether Rampa was a hoax or not has to remain open. Therefore Cranky's comment:
"The fact that 'Lobsang Ramtha (sic)' was not who he claimed to be nor did he do the things he wrote about is indisputable."
is incorrect. I would turn the approach of Cranky's argument around and ask him to PROVE that occupation of a body by a spirit really is impossible.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 | 02:11 PM
Stev said:

"Cranky said:
"but if you tell me there are green monkeys on the dark side of the moon and you can't produce any, I think I have more than a right to call bullshit on you."
Actually I don't think Cranky does. It just means that at the moment none of us really knows."

What it means is that, as always, the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion.

If you CAN'T back up your claims, you have to be prepared for people to not believe you.

"Rampa" was a proven liar who never backed up ANY of his claims. Why should anyone take him seriously?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 | 02:14 PM
Stev said:

"I would turn the approach of Cranky's argument around and ask him to PROVE that occupation of a body by a spirit really is impossible."

I would refer you to my previous comment.

If you still disagree with this simple logic, prove that there are NO green monkeys on the dark side of the moon. Remember, to win this challenge, you have to show conclusively that NO green monkeys exist anywhere on the dark side of the moon. Good luck with that whole "proving a negative" thing.
Stev
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 | 02:46 PM
Cranky said:

"'Rampa' was a proven liar who never backed up ANY of his claims".

But Cranky, he was proven a liar according to your belief set (and that of the majority of people), not according to what the absolute truth may (or may not) be. IF occupation of a body by a spirit was proven to be impossible, then Rampa would be a proven liar. But as yet, no-one has proved it to be impossible, therefore we cannot categorically say that Rampa was a proven liar. He could just be telling the truth, the same way that Galileo just may have been right about the earth being round 400 years ago.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 | 05:33 PM
Stev said:

"But Cranky, he was proven a liar according to your belief set (and that of the majority of people), not according to what the absolute truth may (or may not) be."

Wrong! I'm referring to the fact that the guy was an Englishman who never set foot in Tibet, as he claimed to have done in his books. Since he never was there, all the things he claimed to have done there are also lies. He never had his "third eye" opened by a holy man, etc.

Get it now? Yes, what I've just said is true. You might want to read up on "Rampa's" background, as opposed to only reading his fiction. He told lies to sell books, period.
Stev
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 | 01:02 AM
I have read up on Rampa's background as well as reading his books. His argument in the Rampa Story was that it was his possessing spirit who grew up in Tibet, not Cyril Hoskin. He happily admits that Cyril Hoskin was never in Tibet. However, this claim was made after the investigation published in the Daily Mail revealed 'the truth' about him.

There is considerable evidence to suggest that he was a deluded Englishman. But my point is that we cannot categorically state that he was lying. His version of the facts, albeit fantastic, is water-tight.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 | 01:20 AM
One possibility is that this guy, who never visited Tibet in his life, had a "spirit" that visited Tibet and did all the things that he claimed to have done, in complete violation of the known laws of physics.

The other possibility is that he simply made the whole bullshit story up.

Occam's Razor says that when you're faced with two possibilities and you can't decide between them, go with the simpler one. I'm going with "B."
Stev
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 | 02:05 AM
Cranky said:
"..in complete violation of the known laws of physics."

The known laws of classical physics, perhaps. However, quantum physics proves that classical physics is flawed, and our scientists accept that the unresolved paradoxes of QP mean that we don't really have any idea what reality actually is.

Of course, this doesn't prove or disprove Rampa's claims, and given the evidence, I personally would probably incline towards the 'deluded Englishman' school of thought. I just think we need to excercise careful open-mindedness when looking at the so-called 'paranormal'.
Charybdis
in Hell
 Member
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 | 08:49 AM
<i>He could just be telling the truth, the same way that Galileo just may have been right about the earth being round 400 years ago.</i> - Stev

Just because I'm a natural stick-in-the-mud I have to comment on this. Galileo claimed that bodies orbited other planets (Jupiter and its moons), not that the Earth was round. Science had already recognized that the Earth was a sphere about 1700 years earlier when Eratosthenes calculated its circumference.


And I agree with you that we cannot categorically state that Hoskins was lying about his claims. On the other hand, that's no reason to accept them. The fact of the matter is, unless somebody PROVES their claims (or at least provides compelling evidence for them) we are under no obligation to accept them, especially when they fly in the face of everything we know about how the universe works.

Everyone jumps on the quantum physics bandwagon as a loophole for their bogus claims, assuming that qp doesn't make sense and therefore allows for the impossible. That's just not true. There is nothing about quantum physics that allows for remote viewing, prognostication, telepathy, ghosts, the existence of a soul, or any of a thousand other paranormal claims.

In fact quantum physics has supported the fundamental idea, might as well call it a fact, that none of these things are possible. Yes odd things happen at the quantum level, but they still follow the laws of physics. It's just that our understanding of these laws has grown in depth and scope, not that everything we ever knew was wrong. We just have a clearer view of the big picture than ever before.

Of course, there are still plenty of things we don't know or understand. But just because we don't understand them doesn't automatically mean we have to accept any absurd claims that someone might choose to make. I'm betting that Galileo wouldn't have had the slightest clue as to how your cell phone worked, but that he'd be smart enough not to assume it must be 'magic'.

Following the route of magic has never, ever been fruitful in all of known history. Following the route of science has been. This would seem to be a good indicator of which is more likely to tell you something about the universe. Not that magic is necessarily wrong or impossible, but it's not what got us where we are today. Magic isn't why you're reading this on a computer. Why then do you insist we have to cling to magic as a possiblity?
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 | 05:57 PM
Charybdis said:

"And I agree with you that we cannot categorically state that Hoskins was lying about his claims. On the other hand, that's no reason to accept them. The fact of the matter is, unless somebody PROVES their claims (or at least provides compelling evidence for them) we are under no obligation to accept them, especially when they fly in the face of everything we know about how the universe works."

Exactly what I've been saying, Chary. We are under NO obligation to prove the NON-existance of something.
Cranky Media Guy
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 | 07:06 PM
Hey, lookie here!

http://randi.org/jr/2006-11/111706rampa.html#i1
Invictus
Member
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 | 01:17 AM
Facing the truth...

I'm glad to see the spirited discussion that's taken place about the Rampa books 50 years after his first work was printed.

After re-reading the Rampa books that I enjoyed as a younger man and conducting research, I've come to a decision. That sneaking suspiscion that Rampa wasn't who he claimed to be was correct (I always though he sounded too much like he was bragging).

But, I've also decided that sometimes fiction can open minds to the truth. Even a a fraud can motivate genuine interest in important matters and questions. (I bet you read the Da Vinci code, too.)

The great thing that Hoskins/Rampa accomplished was to inspire generations of people to expand their minds to encompass more that just the physical reality. We are engaging in more study of phenomena once considered to be on the fringes of science. Even so, there are some aspects of Eastern science that still baffle us here in the West. One example is the science behind accupuncture which describes organs that don't physically exist. Today, accupuncture is swiftly becoming mainstream. Rampa may have moved the needle in a similar way for other areas of study.

Many people now believe in vast possibilities that they simply wouldn't have 50 years ago. That's a good thing. I think we have to be humble and remain open to the possibility that OBEs, the aura, telepathy and other metaphysical subjects may all be solidly within the realm of science in the near future.

For me, accepting that Rampa was a man named Hoskins was like like hearing that a favorite musician beats his wife. It's disappointing, sad, and makes me wag my finger, but it doesn't mean his music didn't uplift me. His message inspired lots of us to look within ourselves. For that, I've already forgiven him. But it means everything he said must be questioned.

I don't know if there's an Akashic Record (an Edgar Cayce term) or a Land of Golden Light (though I want to). But, hopefully, time will tell as we continue to study the world outside ourselves and within ourselves with open, but scientific, minds.

Invictus
Limp Lama
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 | 01:45 PM
"Lobsang" lied a lot but what he has done is bring the plight of the Tibetans to the forefront, what now?
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