Earth2012 this month announced the launch of a major new project:
they're going to build a water-fueled car. And they're soliciting donations to help them achieve this ambitious dream. Of course, a water-fueled car might raise a few skeptical eyebrows, but Earth2012 says the science behind their project is all very sound. The tank of their car will be filled up with water, but the water will then be converted onboard into hydrogen. So it's really a hydrogen-powered car, not a water-powered one. And hydrogen-powered cars, of course, already exist.
What makes my hoax detector start ringing when I read about their project is their description of the onboard water-to-hydrogen conversion process. From what I understand, it takes quite a bit of energy to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. This has always been one of the major stumbling blocks on the road to a hydrogen economy (the cost of producing hydrogen). But Earth2012 says that it has developed a 'revolutionary way of creating hydrogen from water.' This involves vibrating the water at exactly the correct frequency, thereby causing the water to easily separate into oxygen and hydrogen.
Maybe Earth2012 really has developed this revolutionary new process, though the details they provide about it are awfully sketchy. But it all sounds an awful lot like a water-as-fuel hoax, of which there have been many in the past... one of the weirdest being Guido Franch's claims back in the 70s that he had developed a cheap green powder that, when added to water, transformed the water into gasoline. Franch gave a few demonstrations of his powder, though never under scientifically controlled conditions, and his credibility took a bit of a blow when he confessed that the secret of the powder had been given to him by a group of spacemen from the planet Neptune.
The Straight Dope has an article about Franch if you're interested in reading more about him.
Update: Parazyte has provided a link to an
article (in English) about Daniel Dingel, a Filipino man who claims that he invented a water-powered car back in 1969. The rest of the site is in German, but
click here to see a video of Mr. Dingel driving around in his watercar.
Comments
And intelligent people know that the shape, and roughly the diameter, of the Earth was worked out over 2000 years ago. But don't let stupidity stop you.
Hydrogen power isn't a myth. It's very possible right now. The problem is that it's not cost effective. It costs more energy to produce the hydrogen then you get back from it, making it an energy sink. It's still more efficient to burn fossil fuels. Until the hydrogen generation problem can be overcome these cars will never become mainstream.
Additionally, right now all hydrogen cars are extremely expensive to produce. Granted, with mass production that cost will drop significantly, but it will be a long time, if ever, before they approach the cost of a fossil fuel car. Then there are the maintenance issues that haven't even been addressed yet. How much does it cost to keep such a car running for 5 to 10 years?
In the spring 2000 the water car came several times in the Philippine television. To 12.8.99 an article in the Philippine DAILY Inquirer appeared (likewise a further article with photo to 26.08.99). According to a Philippine television report at the beginning of 2001 is to begin series production on the Philippinien. Large concerns such as VOLKSWAGEN likewise already called on DIN gel (over evtl. To buy up patents and put on ice? ; -)
Stefan hard man (http://www.overunity.com) led in the middle of 2000 a very interesting telephone interview with Daniel DIN gel, in which this describes its career/development and its future plans. Wolfgang Czapp, which turned own 5 minutes video over DIN gel water car, reports that DIN gel uses particularly coated electrodes, in order to prevent a high current flow and a corroding of the electrodes.
Wolfgang Czapp: Thus the water car functions: It makes nevertheless not so complicated! Water cars run not with explosion of the detonating gas, but with implosion of compressed ether energy. Proofs: The engine will cold, and runs with very much preignition, it could never with the small quantity detonating gas run. Daniel Dingles water car: The reactor is a faradaeischer cage. In it a normal electrolysis with 12 V and 5 Amper is carried out. Around the electrolysis unit is a swinging coil of only few turns. This coil swings in resonance with the ether energy. This energy is back-reflected by the edelstahlbehaelter into the inside, and gives thus strengthens the Engie on the electrolysis off. The detonating gas, which is mixed with exhaust air, shifted with energy, sucks in the engine. After two thirds of the compression procedure the concentrated ether charge is ignited, and condensed in form of a Inplosion. Thus like Daniel DIN gel several times sagte... very simply!!!
First I have to say that I've studied chemistry and therefor understand just a little bit of physics and chemistry.
And of course I'm a very sceptical fellow !
So eg I couldn't believe the lifter device
(flying construction) but after rebuilding that
device I was able to verify that it indeed works !
Now to the so called "watercar":
After some calculations, a normal car (2Liter engine) at 3000RPM would need the separation of 0.38 liter H2O per minute to gain the same energy as with gasoline (isooctane was used for this calculation) (eg. 2kJ per round).
This would provide about 42.4g of H2 per minute, and 0.158 liter H2 per round. As 0.158 liter in totaly 2 liters are 7.91% the H2/Air mixture in the engine would be able to explode (over 4% minimal H2 needed for an explosion) and provide the same power as with gasoline.
If you make the same calculation for the minimal H2 needed for combustion (4%), you will get an amount of aprox. 0.2 liter of H2O needed for separation each minute. The resulting power of the engine would be only half of that of a gasoline driven engine (but for sure would be enough to drive around).
Now, for every guy out there that have ever done a labor-scaled electrolysis by himself, it is clear that is nearly impossible to electrolyse 0.2 liter of water (and 0.38 liter of water would be even harder) in just ONE minute!
This electrolysis would take so much energy, that
it would draw down every car mounted battery so fast, that you would probably only drive that car out of the garage and the battery would be nearly empty.
Now comes the main clue:
The hole watercar device would be only possible if it is realy true that there exists some devices which are able to "gather" some energy not only from battery, but from an unknown source (eg. surrounding air heat, or "free energy").
At this point it is hard to belief as scientist that such devices are possible, although there are many devices out there that claim to do exactly that (eg. Joes Cell, Brown Gas, Bingo Fuel etc.)
After I've taken a closer look on all of this devices (as I did for the lifter too) it's clear to me, that I can only belief by building up such a device myself.
Through mail contact with Jean-Louis Naudin
I've tried to figure out which device would be the most promising one, so I decided to build a Binge Fuel device for myself.
Take a look at the following experiment:
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/bfrcl.htm
The used BingoFuel cell was able to deliver about 3.7kW through a 5HP electric generator, and the cell needed only 2.5kW to run.
Although the Bingofuel device provides enough H2 to power the 5HP generator, this experiment should run much longer to prove the "gathering" of some other energy (overunity).
So I'll build one of this devices myself.
I'm still not sure that such devices are functional, but the above experiment (see link)
is very promising !
Cheers ! Claude Steiner
Trying to animate dead things with big scare contraptions and monstrosity of lightning energy.
Or those yester centuries imagineers who envisioned flying crafts as simply ocean ships lifted into the air.
My advice: leave quantum mechanic, particle physics to the professional ones. Frankly they are too fine for your frankenstein looking glass.
The only way a hydrogen-powered car would have a lower cost of operation than a gasoline-powered car is if the hydrogen can be split apart at low cost. There are places where hydrogen can be mass-produced cheaply- they are near fast-flowing rivers or hydroelectric dams. The relative scarcity of such places is one reason hydrigen production is expensive.
In summary, unless you live next to a fast flowing river, you will not have a cheap source of hydrogen.
I assume the reason for producing it onboard is the perceived danger large amounts of hydrogen pose. I'm not sure if it's really that much more dangerous than gasoline in storage and transportation, though I admit to not being familiar with the more tricky aspects of hydrogen.
No "smell of combustion", only waterdrops leaves the exhaust. That's what yields.
GM has a water fueled car, and they have had it for over ten years. 😜
OH that's right a magneto, or an alternator, and some batteries....you guys are idiots for thinking this is far fetched.
as for freezing....some sort of chemical like what is put in a radiator---ANTI_FREEZE
OR
the other part of electrolisis is SALT and yes that lowers waters freezing point!!!
and somebody mentioned that the water would put out a fire if there was a car wreck---the fire would have to come from the other car, cause one carrying water and converting it only as needed, to drive electric motors would not catch fire.
but it was a good point that if you hit a gasoline car then it would help extinguish the other guys car.
pray for rain honey, i need to fill the car up!!!
Fact : Water is at a far less energetic state than free hydrogen gas and Oxygen gas are (after all, it is just hydrogen and oxygen that has already 'reacted' to bond together into water in the first place!) and has also bonded with H-H bonds which additionally makes it even harder to seperate again...
Fact: it takes significant energy to break [hydrogen bonds], and the H-O bonds in water.
Fact: The amount of energy required to break the bonds is the same - it doesnt matter if you use electricity or ultrasonic or any other 'magic method', you still have to break the bonds, still takes the same energy.
Fact: The amount of energy liberated when Hydrogen is burnt in air, will always be less than that required to seperate the bonds in water in the first place.
i.e it cannot ever be used to produce a net gain in energy, perpetual motion is impossible! The sooner the human race realises that the better.
Otherwise The universe would be getting hotter not colder - Simple entropy my friends!
Fiction: The claims that people are driving cars powered ONLY by water - They just haven't told you about the power stored in the batteries, or the extra energy input into the system, (your mobile phone is pretty efficient if you don't count the charger!)
.. People still beleive in UFO's Fairies and Ghosts, doesn't make it true you know!!
tnx
1: The energy needed to get hydrogen out of water is more than the energy you can get from the hydrogen created.
2: If you agree with statement 1 then it follows that a car cannot run on only water because the energy needed to get hydrogen from water has to come from somewhere other than the hydrogen created by the process.
3: A car
Though that all you guys would like to look at this video from Channel 9 - Today Tonight Australia 9 June 2008? Also reported is a diffent system on Channel 10 Late News - Australia 12 June 2008
Aussie Brothers Run Car on Water:
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/video#
Raises some interesting questions?
Regards,
KH
Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?
There are several kits avaliable just search for 'water car kit':
http://www.runcarswithwater.com/?gclid=CM7ere7ZgZQCFSoZagodGiEvWA
A recent conference in Canada revealed a company producing units that seperated Hydrogen from water, a diswasher sized unit, that were comercially available:
http://www.pollutionprobe.org/Publications/Air.htm
http://aboutclimatechange.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=48
http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=6759&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Hope this all helps.
Also check out the video at Channel 9 above.
Regards,
KH
Found a similar company producinmg an industrial unit that replaces acetlyne cutting tourches. if you look into Stanley Meyer's pages and videos you will find one that shows his technology [patented] doing the same thing.
It is a small step from an acetlyne torch to a motor car engine.
http://hytechapps.com/
Regards,
KH
Can you send details, URL or other info on Sri Lanka.
Am working on same idea.
Thanks. KH
Can water really be used as fuel?
Consider the basics:
water is 2H and one O that make it H20.
Electrolysis can separate it to 2H and Oxy.
Now we have the elements for combustion. Without
Oxygen anything cannot burn.
So, is it a hoax/no scientific proof?
Gasoline/fossil fuel:
Chemical formula is CnHm where n is the number of carbons and m the number of Hydrogens. This added with Oxygen from the engine air intake = combustion. But Carbon monixides, carbon dioxides, nitrous oxides (Nitrogen from air), lead oxide (lead from gasoline, unless unleaded) and other pollutants are by-products of this combustion.
On the other hand, burning H and O the by-product is H20 again...no pollutants! Isn't that incredible? Or you still believe it's a hoax.
They are correct, the energy needed to separate the bonds of H and O in H20 is much greater than the energy you will get when you burn the separated H and O. So the physicists or whatever you call them are right!
In simple terms, why go into business of buy and sell if you buy an item for 2 dollares and sell for 1.80 dollars? Your business will not grow!!!
Now, if you believe in those chemical facts about water and gasoline that both contains Hydrogen which in fact been used by NASA for their rockets to space, then processing water into engine fuel is not a hoax. But unprocessest water per se will not burn, and cannot run you car.
The only constraint to be overcome or the only challenge is to find a method of separating H and O in water with the least possible energy that is much less than the energy you will get when the separated H and O are burned back to water. I believed this was done already by some inventors.
The problem is, they don't want to share this technology maybe for secrecy, greed or whatever reason we don't know.
Don't forget guys, our climate change problem today is caused by burning fossil fuel. All of our modern technologies using electricity (computers, cell phones, cars, etc) are powered by fossil fuel. We are now at a critical stage towards self destruction if we cannot replace or reduce fossil fuel consumption.
I believe that alternative is water. Let's strive to keep our planet for the future generations. There are already thousands of car owners in USA able to increase their mileage by 25 100%, that means reduced fossil fuel use and money savings.
Let's do it.
Regards
Prat