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Water-Fueled Car
image Earth2012 this month announced the launch of a major new project: they're going to build a water-fueled car. And they're soliciting donations to help them achieve this ambitious dream. Of course, a water-fueled car might raise a few skeptical eyebrows, but Earth2012 says the science behind their project is all very sound. The tank of their car will be filled up with water, but the water will then be converted onboard into hydrogen. So it's really a hydrogen-powered car, not a water-powered one. And hydrogen-powered cars, of course, already exist.

What makes my hoax detector start ringing when I read about their project is their description of the onboard water-to-hydrogen conversion process. From what I understand, it takes quite a bit of energy to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. This has always been one of the major stumbling blocks on the road to a hydrogen economy (the cost of producing hydrogen). But Earth2012 says that it has developed a 'revolutionary way of creating hydrogen from water.' This involves vibrating the water at exactly the correct frequency, thereby causing the water to easily separate into oxygen and hydrogen.

Maybe Earth2012 really has developed this revolutionary new process, though the details they provide about it are awfully sketchy. But it all sounds an awful lot like a water-as-fuel hoax, of which there have been many in the past... one of the weirdest being Guido Franch's claims back in the 70s that he had developed a cheap green powder that, when added to water, transformed the water into gasoline. Franch gave a few demonstrations of his powder, though never under scientifically controlled conditions, and his credibility took a bit of a blow when he confessed that the secret of the powder had been given to him by a group of spacemen from the planet Neptune. The Straight Dope has an article about Franch if you're interested in reading more about him.

Update: Parazyte has provided a link to an article (in English) about Daniel Dingel, a Filipino man who claims that he invented a water-powered car back in 1969. The rest of the site is in German, but click here to see a video of Mr. Dingel driving around in his watercar.
Free Energy
Posted by The Curator on Mon Jul 12, 2004


This definitely sounds like a hoax to me. I think you're right to approach this 'revolutionary' engine with skepticism. I mean, no hydrogen tank? No need to change the infrastructure? Come on, this can't be serious! Anyway, it reminds me of that famous line by Hyde, in 'That 70s Show': ''There's this car, and it runs on water, man. It runs on WATER, man!''
Posted by MetalMath  on  Mon Jul 12, 2004  at  11:57 PM
Even a "revolutionary way of creating hydrogen from water" is still subject to Conservation of Energy. Hydrogen is used as a fuel by combining it with atmospheric oxygen to produce water vapor; there is no way to get out more energy that was expended in separating the hydrogen from water in the first place. Until such time as nuclear fusion becomes an energy industry, hydrogen is an energy store, not an energy source.
Posted by Daniel Johns  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  05:21 AM
If you've watched the film "Chain Reaction" with Morgan Freeman, Keanu Reeves and Rachel Weisz, then this should be very familiar. In that, a research team is trying to find a way of producing hydrogen from water easily, and the basis in the film is that they use something called sonoluminescence. The film came out in 1996 (see IMDB), and I recall that this was a year or two after some news claiming that the correct sound frequencies causes water to split into hydrogen and oxygen. That claim dried up, but inspired this film I guess. These claims were in turn soon after the Fleischmann-Pons cold fusion claims. I wouldn't be surprised if this Earth2012 are connected to the sonoluminescence claims.
Posted by Anon  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  05:38 AM
I agree with the three earlier posters.

But anyway, how do they apply a "frequency" to the water? Do they microwave it? Do they shake it in a certain frequency? Do they apply a lightbeam of certain wavelength into the water? Maybe something even more creative huh? smile Maybe they just scream at the water.

Even so, that means (just like Daniel Johns said) that you need to have energy in electricity (for the microwave), pneumatics (to shake it), batteries (for the flashlight) or hot dogs and coke for the guy who is assigned to screaming. Or maybe he can just drink the water if he is thirsty provided he hasnt turned it into hydrogen already....
Posted by parazyte  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  10:43 AM
you can only drive it when it's warm or else the water will freeze up and you have an ice powered car... and if you get in a car accident the water will extinguish the flames!!
Posted by john  in  NH  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  12:46 PM
If you're going to make water vibrate, it would probably be done with a speaker-like device. But even if that did separate the water molecules, you have to put the same amount of energy in as with other methods. You might be able to use less power but simply take more time to get a given amount of hydrogen. Using resonance effects usually only means you can deliver the energy you need in several small doses rather than one big one.
Posted by Matt  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  01:15 PM
Physics is physics. Even at 100% efficiency in both seperating the water and burning the hydrogen, it takes more energy to seperate hydrogen and oxygen than can be produced combining them. Anybody who says different is selling something.
Posted by Terry Austin  in  Huntingtin Beach  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  01:27 PM
Sounds fairly bogus. In the how it works section they plan to break down water into H2 and O2 then mix Hydrogen, Oxygen and Air to create combustion.

Interesting way of scamming tree huggers I guess. I like this part. "People who have donated
Posted by Ron Lloyd  in  Canada  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  01:32 PM
Yeah, you've got to wonder why they separated the water into oxygen and hydrogen, then added extra air before recombining the two. Ideally, you wouldn't need any extra oxygen from the air to make the hydrogen burn.
Posted by Matt  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  03:19 PM
Like John accurately pointed out, in regions where the temperature often drops below the freezing point (like here, in Quebec), a car powered by a big water tank would be quite troublesome, to say the least... It would need another power source (maybe pedals? wink) to keep the water from freezing.
Posted by MetalMath  on  Tue Jul 13, 2004  at  05:15 PM
We're WAY past this..
Thanks to a guy named "James Watt" wink
Posted by v  on  Mon Jul 19, 2004  at  10:18 AM
a normal ICE engine wastes about 70% of its combustion effiency generating heat, and it gets around fine. Yes 100% efficiency would be nice, but so what if we have to change the batteries every so often, or have to use more water, I thought the idea was pollution control or fuel cost. This guys idea (if it does work) is a step in the right direction, we don't only have to produce alternative fuel source vehicles, but find some way to affordably retrofit the millions of vehicles on the road today. Not only for the vehicles themselves, but for the existing infrastructure of gasoline stations etc. Also preferably without Hollywood-style explosions of hydrogen tanks in accidents.
Posted by Gareth  in  USA  on  Tue Aug 10, 2004  at  02:49 AM
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar/ - try this site for yourself and know the man behind the invention, before judging... this man has discovered the technology since 1967 beat that iceland!

and by the way before analyzing how to break hydrogen and oxygen to achieve "power storage" and not "power source"....browse through the site...and if your in the US VISIT him, Mr. Daniel Dingel, a drink of beer or two with him, you just might change your mind...
Posted by Enrico  in  Thailand  on  Mon Oct 11, 2004  at  03:45 AM
I see that ppl like to comment without knowing exactly what they are talking about.

added air?
split system, petrol/hydrogen ICE

resonance of water?
look it up before you comment again... lol
Water is dissociated out of gas with average electric tension produced by impulses of D.C. current to high voltage (20 to 40 kV) at the frequency of 10-15 kHz. Inductance, in series with the Capacity starts resonances inside the molecule. Those cause to break the covalent bonds between the oxygen and hydrogen atoms, by using very little energy. The two gases thus separated remain it, until a sufficient energy is available to again recombine them in the form of water.

water freeze?
Are you serious you can't figure out one way of keeping your fuel from freezing. Wait, you are waiting for someone else to show you... naysayer...ha

-Basically either you are employed to deter, destract, and or disinform ppl.
-Well I guess you all could be the same 10 year old...

think outside the box
seth
Posted by seth  on  Thu Oct 28, 2004  at  11:28 PM
right..no offense science lovers physisist's and scientist's..I am not used to getting flamed, but I guess its a question of IQ, well why wont you sign up to the said yahoo groups so "you" would have an idea of "your own" of what the 10 year old is saying, while not having the world scientist's look at your comment of "wanting" to win a nobel award for nice comment?.

anyways give or take the site does offer proper explanations for the 10 year old scientist "wanna be" like me.

"I see that ppl like to comment without knowing exactly what they are talking about."

water freeze?
"Are you serious you can't figure out one way of keeping your fuel from freezing. Wait, you are waiting for someone else to show you... naysayer...ha"(and please dont bother putting down a fellow naysayer uhmkhay?...umkhay...)

-Basically either you are employed to deter, destract, and or disinform ppl.
..yup takes one to know one...
-Well I guess you all could be the same 10 year old... "momma bought me a nu 'puter"

"think outside the box seth"

...and you know what ..."Parazyte"...LOL
as was said in "Engrish Okey"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar/

-could someone lend me a dollar? I think I need a new brain.
Posted by Enrico  in  my bedroom with teddy  on  Fri Oct 29, 2004  at  05:25 AM
anyway if your using a text book, your over doing it....I am just 10...by the way are you from OPEC? where you the one hired?...??
Posted by Enrico  on  Fri Oct 29, 2004  at  05:32 AM
oh yeah for those who have not checked the site already, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar/files/ -this site is definitely in English(Engrish)[giggle]playing aside, play the avi movie coz it's in english (hopefully you could get past his accent, but the babe interviewing him is nice wink and everything is told here so if your curious please watch the film(carefully).

http://www.wasserauto.de/html/daniel_dingel.html -this is in german, where the video doesnt play it uses an old windows media player 6.4 or something...it builrt in with windows 98SE.

I apologize about the flaming...I reacted before thinking...sorry seth. and the others esp. iceland... :-(
Posted by Enrico  on  Fri Oct 29, 2004  at  05:53 AM
I consider myself a practicing skeptic but try to keep an open mind. Guess that the best way to determine the fib factor regarding the frequency driven H2 generator is to build one. The cost is
low and the fun generated thru expenimenting is high. Perhaps more energy should go into the shop workbench rather than mind blog.

I've looked over several plans and patents for the which address water to H2 conversion. I'm currently in Minnesota but will be back to Texas in a few days. Readers may want to consider the following: Yull Brown (Brown gas), Stanley Meyer (Hi Frequency:Hi Voltage coversion): Sam Leslie Leach (Ultravoilet); Gianni Dotto ( Magnetic flux)
: and finally Archie Blue ( Alternate plate).
See Explore Magazine and Keelynet for all of
above. China does produce Brown Gas Generators for commercial use. Brown gas is a combination of H2, N,O and other gases derived from water and outside air induction.
Posted by Dan Nichols  in  Texas  on  Thu Dec 16, 2004  at  05:51 PM
Actually this works, but the vibration does not. I have converted my mustang, although I still need to work out some bugs, it runs on 30 amps at 12v DC. I don't use vibration because vibration does not separate the water, only positive and negative charges will pull it apart. You can do this to, take a tuning fork and make it vibrate and put it in water, does very little other than disturb the water. Take 2 peices of copper, connect a 9v battery so one strip of copper is positive and the other negative. Put that in the water (leave about 1/2" apart) and watch it work. I'll need to rebuild the electroleyser and engine because they both suck. But it works. Try it with a lawn mower, what have you got to lose?
Posted by Kuragari  in  wouldn't you like to know  on  Wed Apr 06, 2005  at  02:31 AM
Fingers?

smile
Posted by Rod  in  the land of smarties.  on  Wed Apr 06, 2005  at  02:37 AM
What about a lawnmower? wink
Posted by Smerk  in  to mischief  on  Wed Apr 06, 2005  at  02:41 AM
What a bunch of Maroons (re: Gareth, Enrico, seth, Kuragari)

Let me all give you a hint guys. Newton proved that a water power car can't work sometime around 1700.

When you guys get back to reality and come up with something usefull AND practical give us a jingle.
Posted by Schlemiel  in  The real world (And not that stupid MTV show)  on  Mon Jul 04, 2005  at  03:34 AM
ey Fresh Grad. I know I may be wrong assuming you are a moron by being ignorant, but I guess you get this if you just finished college with a degree and full of hopes and dreams and ego, if you can download the avi file about this fabled Daniel Dingel "who" has a "working" "water" fuelled car, that he had stumbled upon this discovery when there was an oil crisis in the late 60's to the early 70's (and I remember this is when the American Muscled cars died out) Mr Dingel had a rice farm in his province, and he has this motor the help him plow that he modified to run on water, (to this point I can tell you that there was an inventor in the Phils. that offered this technology in the 60's to President Marcos which was turned down because of no financial gain only help the world get rid of Oil pwered engines) so after his dissappointment offering this knowledge, he then got back to developing it to be more efficient it seemed he has stumped on the fact the the engine needs a lot of current before actually making the engine start and so he kept developing this until today, he's very old and his efforts where noble, he would love to give his technology to any country as long as a the financial gains go to the "Filipino People"... thus his battle and stature stands today.... people got smarter, got degree's got educated, then looked for this myth of a man which the newsppapers denied giving his whereabouts... Japanese corporations as big as toyota wants to buy this invention, because he managed to modify any kind of car to apply his technology and of course it works... a european company tried to get his rights out of his invention... but he refused still... 'old habits die hard' ..so if you can listen to his interview and understand through his filipino accent, you can see he is applying current to the watertank(reactor) which he was warned by engineers that it is unstable you know when an atom of hydrogen splits.. it creates an explosion, but if you harness this energy in small amounts then you have a working stable reactor, now frequency's I am not sure if he applies it.. if he apply sound on the reactor because I cannot see anything on the water tank, and if there is a speaker I cannot see clearly because where the car battery is is where he placed the reactor a tight fit but it fits...
Posted by Enrico  in  somewhere  on  Tue Jul 12, 2005  at  12:25 AM
(on the avi file interview) so he demonstated how his engine works, he showed without this current water is just water(stored energy) applying a certain voltage it becomes stable enough to produce its own power strong enough to start the engine and sustain the amount of energy needed for the engine cycle..... blah blah blah.....you know how it works..... but being flamed for the truth... you got to see to believe....... in oder to see, you need to open your eyes...so for this forum/community I ask just to browse this site dedicated to him.... and see the groups archive messages and new developments and as well ask questions about how to improve what you engineers has done who knows you might pick something up to help you own endeavors in this crisis of oil that we.. all of us are experiencing....

oh yeah if you see his toyota corolla running you will see 100% water coming out of the combustion pipe, weird I expect some kind of combustion... so I am still waiting to be proven wrong.....and for people who want to have a scene, well do a little research....for your own good.. so people who are seriously here for education or shall I call mind enrichment would not have to go through this rant of a comment just to say "I know better" .. all I can say is reach out farther....at least you might get some sense in your life....comprende? ..jackolero..
Posted by Enrico  in  somwhere  on  Tue Jul 12, 2005  at  12:26 AM
Kuragari:

I am interested in your experiment with Mustang, can u tell us more about it? how can I contact u personally, thanks

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Posted by contactpho  on  Tue Sep 13, 2005  at  06:58 PM
The materials needed to split water is already in the car. Your motor. I heard in order to keep the heads from cracking you have to start the motor with gasoline. When the motor warms enought to produce steam then you can switch it over. My high school teacher Mr. Brown heated a test tube of water. When the water came to a boil he lit the hydrogen and it burned off the top of the tube. So water can be seperated when it boils to a steam. The steam contains the hydrogen and oxygen vapors. I saw in an old science book that the hydrogen can be seperated by placing a copper wire in a tube w/ a negative charge drawing out the positive hydrogen vapors and vice versa if a mag. wire w/ a positive charge is inserted in a tube it will draw the negative oxygen vapors and seperate the two out of the steam. The tubes then can be coiled up to condensate the steam into liquid. Run the two back into the fuel injectors and the spark puts them back together w/ an explosion. Sounds good but I have never tried it.
Posted by Ron Kemp  in  Michigan  on  Fri Oct 28, 2005  at  12:27 PM
spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm

this should give anybody a general idea if not answer most questions related as to how you can excite water with d.c. and shock it with a.c. at the same time and get more out than you use in electric expenditure. this is good stuff!!!
Posted by rickey  in  houston,tx  on  Wed Nov 23, 2005  at  04:04 PM
what I think of vibrating water is feeding the right frequency of electricity during electrolysis..lead acid battery desulfators feeds a current at a fixed frequency (which is the resonant frequency of the lead acid battery) and this makes the sulfates recombine with the acid solution..I think this is also similar as what is referred to vibrate the water at a resonant frequency..will experiment on that if I have time..

I saw Dingel's car and there's no hidden fuel container and tailpipe emmission is only water.
Posted by doms  on  Thu Dec 22, 2005  at  09:43 AM
for you morons out there, who don't believe in seperating water with dc for polarization and ac for resonant cracking...

may i suggest injecting steam below in to the intake and using a spark plug, distributor, and coil rated for roughly 250,000 volts. steam vapor can be explosive under pressure and fired with 1/4Mega volts. the burn would be instantaneous rather than slowly as for each hydrocarbon has it own flashpoint.

but for the moment since we're still on HC's, staying on HC's a turbine motor emits less no2 and CO and other emissions
Posted by rickey  on  Thu Dec 22, 2005  at  03:04 PM
To Ron Kemp:

When you boil water the vapour is not oxygen and hydrogen vapours separately but together as water vapour.

Trying lighting your kettle.

The match will go out and you'll scalded by hot steam.

You must have been looking at a different experiment.
Posted by James  on  Mon Feb 13, 2006  at  07:01 PM
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