Prebirth Experiences

At RoyalChild.com Sarah and Brent Hinze investigate Prebirth Experiences. They define these as when "a parent, sibling, aunt, uncle, or grandparent, etc., receives communication from a child before she is born, or in many cases, before he was even conceived." I hadn't heard of this particular variety of psychic (or spiritual) phenomenon before. It seems like a strange offshoot of past-life communication... except that instead of talking with people who once existed, you're communicating with people who are waiting to exist in the future. My question is: what if a 'parent' communicates with their child-to-be, but then they end up never having a child. Who, then, were they chatting with? Would the Hintzes define this as an imposter pre-birth experience? (via Holy Weblog)

Paranormal Psychology

Posted on Wed Dec 22, 2004



Comments

Joseph, I have a strong memory of flying to the dark side of the moon under my own power. Once I arrived there, I ate Skittles with a family of blue kangaroos.

I'm so glad to see that you think that actual PROOF of things is silly and unnecessary. That means, of course, that you accept my story at face value.

You DO, right? I mean, you MUST. After all, I SAID it so that makes it true...just like YOUR story.

Thank you for believing me. Most people require PROOF of the fantastic before accepting it.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Fri Oct 30, 2009  at  06:28 PM
The only thing agrivateing enough to me is the following.
And body who dose not believe it is possible with out proof or documentation of such memories as my own.
Needs to do there own research in to the possibility That memories from pre birth to pre mortal is possible.
My own prebirth to pre mortal memories were very real to me.
You can not document what is in the brain with accepting it at face Value.
I all ways believed it was that every body believe in giving people a chance to speak there minds with out acuseing any one of being a hoax.
where Pre Birth memory is concerned.
I have to believe these memories are real
As I have a book Now go and teach the people listed at Amazon.com
with my drawings in it.
Publisher XLIBRIS
Thing is, Only person who can sincerely believe some thing is true.
Is the person stateing it so.
It is not for me to disbelieve other wise.
I look at it this way.
If you believe in Jesus Christ and Father in heaven.
Then your belief tells you in that manner just as Jesus did so.
If you truely believe in the lord then any thing is possible.
For you.
Don't let any one tell you other wise.
I base my own expierence on feelings of emotion, happynes, Sadness, touch, Sound, Speech.
hearing.
All of these things.
I will not ever document any thing about my story here of pre birth memories
As I do not believe that I should have to document it.
document my story is calling me a lier and a hoax.
Some thing I do not appriciate.
But every one is welcome to there own opinions.
in this life.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Fri Oct 30, 2009  at  07:03 PM
Computers

Computers are a fine thing to have.
But it makes it too easy to run other peoples beliefs down in to the ground and hurt there feelings.
I had to disown my fathers intire family to me.
Because of the bitter language and nasty words.
And the word hoax.
name calling to any one
There is no place in this life for name calling.
Advice to everyone.
Share your ideas and how you feel if you must.
but a word of advice here if you please.
The name calling and the ugly words if you will there should be no place for them to be allowed on line.
towards anybody.
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Fri Oct 30, 2009  at  07:08 PM
Hi Joseph,

I believe you. Cranky is just that - Cranky.
It is difficult for some people to believe us, I guess. What they need to understand is that there is really no motivation or gain for us to lie about our pre-birth memories, or to create a hoax. We are just telling the truth about what we remember. I know you are telling the truth because of the way you described your memories - with emotions and sensations. I assume that your conversations were telepathic? Please answer that question for me.

Thank you,

Chris
Posted by chris  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  12:08 AM
Joseph and Chris, you both completely avoided answering my question. Do you or do you not believe my story? I've provided just as much evidence for it as you did for YOUR story. Therefore I can see NO reason why you wouldn't believe it.

By the way, you seem to think that you have to stress the sincerity of your belief in your story over and over. If you actually read what I've said, you would have seen where I explained that sincerity makes no difference.

It's not your SINCERITY I question; it's your veracity.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  12:48 AM
Cris

Hi

I believe your story as well is true.
But Cranky the media guy likes documentation of such story's.
He can check the Bible on my story and he will find that there was indeed a war in heaven if he even believes there was a god.
Most people I've spoken too in my life here where I live has asked that a book be written on my expierences before mortal life.
and that it be published.
I've even made drawings from memory to show what I have seen in heaven its self.
Your question was there telepathy
Yes, That is how I did communicate with others in the heavens.
I would look at them and just think of what I wanted to say to them.
And there was no verble talking mouth wise.
I've spoken english language all of my life.
Even in heaven.
This is hard for most to believe.
And I do not expect Cranky to believe it.
But I believe in my heart that I was an angel that fell from grace in heaven only to become a better person through the being born a mortal here on earth.
There was a blacked out door way there in heaven that was forbidden to me as a spirit person.
I was not allowed to enter it.
Cranky I hope that you can some day believe people on such maters when they talk about them.
but you want proof you want veracity.
Well believe what you like.
It is a free world to speak our minds and if you do not want to believe with out questions of proof.
Life as a premortal.
Read your bible more look in the dictionary in the bible under war in heaven.
Arch Angel Michael won the war against the devil and the devil was sent packing to earth's pit of fire.,
I refuse to offer any proof that you seek.
as I have no way to pick my brain for the proof you seek.
Read your bible more often.
Pre mortal existence
War in heaven
I had Jesus Christ come to me in October 09 2006
He had blue eyes and brown hair with reddish tint in it and a yellow light over his hair wounds in the palms of his hands.
Good luck.
My telepathy did hapen for me.
Through thought process not word of mouth.
Got to call it a night
Work comes early
JM
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  01:06 AM
Cranky Media Guy

this one is to you sir.

what I am saying here to you is this.
I've had three seperate things hapen to me in my life.
one is born with prebirth memory in 56
2 Was a farm tractor wreck where I died of 90 percent injuries
And crossed over to the other side.
through the tunnel of bright light.
Take my word when I tell you this.
There is a gate to hell just on the other side of that tunnel for all to see.
I broke my lower back and broke my pelvic bone cross the middle and walked yet mind you a 1/4 of a mile for help on that broken pelvic bone after afew falls ofcourse.
I never knew I broke any bones in me.
On the other side faceing hells door way.
I could see a roaring fire all the way to the roof its self just beyond what looked like a bright white curtain.
I prayed to heavenly father to save my life from this hot fire blaise on the outer wall.
You talk about a man being full of fear.
I thought I was dead for sure.
I later came to know God as my father to me and not as god.
I have called him Father 3 seperate times begging him not to send me back here to earth.
But he wanted me to do a mission in my life when I got back to this life.
You could not prove to me I was dead.
I never even noticed I had left my body till I saw it covered up on the bed for dead.
You and me and Cris
We may not see eye to eye on any thing here .
but look at it this way.
God has put us all here on earth for a reason or one another reasons.
And I believe that is to help our fellow man kind in one way or another.
No I will not prove any thing to any one.
Not in my life time.
I don't believe that I should have to prove any thing to any one.
It is my god given right to know and understand and to believe things in my heart of hearts.
Ore birth story its self.
You have to have an open mind its self.
to know what is right from wrong stories wise.
And yes, I was an angel fell from grace in heaven.
in my prebirth memories.
But I can not offer you any documented proof.
It is only my word.
Against yours and everyone else.
Hopefully you may understand I am telling you the trueth here.
Pre Birth memory
Death from a tractor wreck
Jesus Christ Comes to see me.
What else is going to hapen to me I wonder all good I hope.

Good night
May all who reads this believe.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  01:37 AM
I would have to say that I agree with most of what Cranky is saying. Also, it really doesn't matter if anyone believes or not and the belief that it does matter can lead to psychological disorder and unhappiness. That is no joke there has to be balance in everything. I know from experience. We humans are subject to conditioning and we all have errors and that includes those with pre-birth memories. Long term belief systems like that can have a negative affect on ones psychological health. Sorry but I have to say that. That doesn't mean one can't investigate within their own mind but the mind can be tricky. The fact that everyone wants to tell their story and make everyone believe is evidence of a disorder and that includes myself. May we all find what we seek, but may it be balanced so that it does not interfere with life and may we all realize there are greater mysteries in the world to learn so that we may come to a deeper realization. Sometimes one has to take a break and come back to it later.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  05:52 AM
Yes sir

Even Prebirth memories of being in heaven before mortal life on earth can be ruff on a mear mortal person in this life we call Reality.
That is why I am telling my own story to who ever will listen.
In hopes that it may help others to deal with life in general.
My own case, I have gotten to where I even loose sleep over not being able to sleep at all.
Because my mind is constantly searching my own heavenly memories for answer's that will never be.
I am straight as an arrow thoughts wise.
But if a person lets such memories get to them and not deal with them.
there is no telling such memories could leed to in ones life if they do not accept them and learn to deal with them.
Because such memories will never go away.
I went to a doctor in oregon for the mind and told him about my memories.
And after a few sessions with him.
He told me to my face.
Sir you hate your daddy.
Who fathered you.
That was not the point, But it was his answer.
He told me that I was not crazzie either.
Said I was waisting both our time with doctor visits.
Sicolligy I think was his field of work.
My pre birth story is based on facts not made up.
But I will carrie a message with me till the end of time for me.
Given to me before I was born.
Message as follows Now go and teach the people of these things that you are a part of here and do.
So that they might believe.
end of message.
2 publishers tell me these memories are indeed religous.
publishers who publish books for aliving.
And are very picky about what they publish.
JM
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  08:28 AM
Hi Joe,

Thanks for your message. I also remember that there was a war in heaven, and that I was a fallen angel. The thing is though, I wasn't directly involved with the war. Here is exactly what I remember: I was "called forth" by God. I remember being pulled out of some dark holding area. Even though I was very old, I could not remember much before I was called forth. I wanted to be with God right away, but 3 angels/spirit guides told me that I could not do that. I remember knowing that there had been a war in heaven, and that I was young or little (maybe as far as soul development goes?), and I hoped that I would not be punished along with those who caused the war. I may have just been associated with the wrong group. I remember being very upset and afraid about having to come to earth, because earth was very chaotic and crazy. Do you remember that? Also did you see any "life preview" before you came here? Jesus said to me: "Go forth my son, I will be with you." It is not a coincidence that God told you: "Now go forth and teach the people of these things that you see and do hear. And are a part of here so that the people might believe." As far as telepathy, Cranky will never understand it because he hasn't experienced it, or at least cannot remember that he has. You do think "in english" but more likely your thoughts would be expressed in other languages here on earth depending on where you were born and raised. Crank, I'm not avoiding the discussion. Lets be exact - you have no real memory of "flying to the dark side of the moon under your own power, and once you arrived there, you ate Skittles with a family of blue kangaroos." Nope -we remember angels with a blue glow - for real ! No psychopathology in that Eric ...

Joe - what is the title of your book?
Posted by Chris  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  09:21 AM
Forgive me if I am lost and don't understand what your saying Joe. Are you saying that you are not a mere mortal?
What if ones memories are not Christian but Buddhist and one was the head of an school who died at the age of 29 in Buxa in 1960 which means refugee in Bhutanese. The lama remembers thousands praying for his return but he decides to change plans because he realizes that he can not really help others with his current understanding, breaking free of the blue wisdom orb traveling to the southwest and then the west into the center of the galaxy where there resides a great black portal with a tremendously great motherly presence and your mind is also tied in with every living thing on every star going through you like a laser lens into the center, but it is not pride but equanimity one feels and a debt to pay back. One enters the void and is reborn as light in a larger multi-dimensional universe where there is not a bearded man known as god but a holistic unity between every entity there with an evolutionary potential of infinity. When one comes back he is born to a Christian society in a Mormon family, in order to help others realize the same awesome potential within themselves. He remembers Friendship 7, the day he entered the womb born 7.5 months later during the Cuban missile crisis sees the Dalai lama on TV knowing who he was, knowing he was born in a foreign land where people dressed funny looking like the whole city lived in a circus and that there was a search party looking for him but that he would never be found. Then remembers seeing in his minds eye a festival in another land where they found this lama, and then remembers the JFK assassination at 13 months old.
Everyone has to float their own boat spiritually, it is really an internalized journey here. I have never met anyone in my 47 years who truly understood except for one lady who found me through a dream and she happened to grow up with and went to school with the Dalai lamas nephews. When I finally did make contact politics got in the way and went contrary to the religions ideology. But the lama I told knew because I revealed secret information in my letter to him and in his teaching he used every part of my memory written in the letter and stumbled upon his words as if he saw the devil. He left for 3 months after that traveling to India and got the inevitable marching orders from there. One can not directly tell another person how it is for every person has their own relative experiences. None of us understand the ultimate truth and we evolve to greater and greater understanding but in order for that to happen there has to be equanimity, otherwise how would one come to a realization of anything outside of their own understanding.
To be honest I don't see how I have benefited anyone by telling my story, it always falls on deaf ears. So I have to honestly ask myself if there is something I have missed.
sliver of the experience and pointless to elaborate.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  12:32 PM
Joe,

I ordered your book, "Now go and teach the people" from Amazon.com.

Also, I just joined a group at Yahoo.com, started by a cool guy named Roger. Here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/b4iwasborn/

Eric, it sounds to me like you were reincarnated, and certainly had some sort of existence before you were born. I don't see any problem with a Buddhist experience versus a Christian one. Your account of your experience above is very similar to the one you wrote months ago, and your story is consistent, so I am inclined to believe that you are telling the truth.

Joe, please tell me more about what you remember.
I'm facinated.

Yep, Cranky, check out Roger's website(s). These pre-birthers are really piling up everywhere!
After all, what are we to do with our time?
On the other hand, why would people take time to write a book (e.g. Joe), and develop websites and discussion groups on Yahoo (e.g. Roger), for no other reason that to just retell what they remember, if they didn't remember at least something??? Why are people from all over the world visiting this website, to discuss their pre-birth experiences??? Keep your server going and IS team up-to-date Cranky - there will be more pre-birthers on the way !!!!
Posted by chris  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  06:19 PM
Also - for the skeptics out there - I wrote the following on this Museum of Hoaxes website on Sat. Oct 18, 2008 at 02:11 PM (see page 3 of the comments):

I communicated telepathically - the beings weren't talking, but they were communicating with me - you may not understand what that felt like this until you experience it! And seeing from above earth - I was afraid to be born, and thought "I certainly don't want to go to that place!" Could you blame me?

Roger founded his group on Yahoo on May 4, 2009.
I never knew Roger or communicated with him at all, until October 6th, 2009. He didn't know about the Museum of Hoaxes website, and in fact I have just recently introduced him to it

Check out his website to confirm the above: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/b4iwasborn/

Roger wrote in May, 2009 the following:

Looking down I saw awful things, fighting and murder and such, I can't recall all the details but I do remember the last thing I saw was a mushroom cloud bellowing up. An older man with white hair, beard and mustache (who in my younger years I believed was Jesus) came to me and said, "It's time to go." I felt like I knew it was coming but I was hoping it wouldn't happen. I just could not believe after seeing all this, I would be sent there, I was distressed so much that my inside shook and tears flowed from my eyes.

Now for the skeptics - you can say it is all just coincidence, but what if we ARE telling the truth - what then ???
Posted by chris  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  06:52 PM
Sorry I made a mistake, i.e. my comments from Sat. Oct 18, 2008 at 02:11 PM are on page 2 (not page 3) of the comments, on this Museum of Hoaxes website.
Posted by chris  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  07:00 PM
Eric

Hi

Yes, I believe too that I was an angel in flight.
In heaven just before I came to earth.
I have not posted that part here yet.
My wife and I was talking 2 days ago about being angels before being born on earth.
And I had a sudden flash back of being still flying around in the heavens sky its self.
and yes, I got a glimps of very large white feathers on both sides of my shoulders All I know is these feathers were indeed bird like when I saw them.
These white tipped wings were coming from behind me.
So yes, I too believe that I was a fallen angel my self.
The sky all around me was like the sky we see here.
above us on earth.
I was out by my self in the midd air its self.
And no one was around with me.
I may be wrong But I don't believe that I was a part of the reason for the war ether.
I found a Bible that I did not grow up with.
It tells how the war started and why.
The arch Angel Michael fought the devil so I am told.
and Lucifer was banished from heaven.

My Book is Title: Now Go And Teach The People.
Author: Joseph A Murphy
Publisher: Xlibris Self Publishing.
Look in Amazon.com
Under Books.
Another book title Memoirs of Joseph
Published by Author House
It has a picture published for the book cover its self that I painted from memory.
I thought English in the beginning Eric
But try to understand this about me.
I never spoke a word of any language till I was 8 years old.
My voice was real screechy like a bird.
When I would try to talk.
And it sounded like my voice was coming from hebriew or arabic per the doctor dad took me too.
here in Texas.
I have to say that I still had my angelic voice that we spoke to god with.
In heaven.
Cranky I am sorry if you do not believe me here.
I assure you I'm not on any thing.
I truly believe that I was an angel in flight and had my wings taken away from me.
Just a quick note.
I died in 1981 and crossed over in to heaven and god spoke to me.
with surprise in his voice.
Oh its you.
what are you doing here.
It is not yet your time to be here.
You must go back I have yet a mission for you to perform.
Then it will be your time.
I begged father not to send me back to earth in 1981
and here I am.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  10:47 PM
To Roger

The part of my pre birth memory was in heaven that got me the most was when I seen God sitting in his large white chair.
He was talking to a boy standing in front of him.
Who was in tears and crying And i was watching them from the walk way that I had landed on from the heavens.
I am age 53 my self.
Getting people to believe that I recall seeing God in a chair then seeing Jesus Christ also in person.
When I saw Jesus Christ.
He had blue eyes and he had wounds all around his head and his hands.
And he had a angel like light on his hair that was yellow.
I think I am slowly getting my memory back from heaven.
But it still appears to be blocked at the Angel wings scene.
I am willing to believe that I was a fallen angel my self because of my memories.
My voice from 1956 to 1963 was screechy and a real very high pitched tone of voice that no one could stand to be around me as a child.
Doctors said that my voice could go back to what it once was.
But I believe that the voice I had was that of an angels voice
Bird like voice sound.
If you can remember hearing a bird in the trees haulering.
My voice was like that when I could not speak english instead I would be a screetchy voice haulering almost scream like voice.
I have sent a remake of my book to Xlibris for publishing as a replacement for now go and teach the people.

Its new title is Gods Angel Falls From Grace.
it includes 23 drawings done by memory.
Of what I saw in heaven.
I hope to have an angel on the front cover when it comes out.next year.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  11:40 PM
From Joe

My drawings done from memory has war damages drawed in to them as well in heaven.
Including a blacked out door way.
with war damage around it as well.
People ask me if I participated in the war.
I could have and not remember it.
I don't know.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  11:43 PM
Roger and new friends
Hi

I am saying I am a spirit person from heaven with no special powers of any kind.
Born in the womb of a mortal mother who was over weight.
And I remember being in the womb with an unborn mortal child about 8 pounds in weight.
and it was me.
I was looking at.
And after it was over with for the birth to take place.
The doctor held me in his arms and for a little bit even then I could hear this loud mouth baby screaming in my ears not knowing who it was.
I looked every where only to end up screaming my self.
It was me stuck in side of a shrunken baby born a mortal.
Did any of you ever notice your selves shrinking in size as you fell from grace or from heaven so to speak.
I too believe that one day even though not every one can recall pre birth memory.
I believe that one day when my time is over here on earth.
I too believe that there is a higher plain of exsistence or being that I will go too.
Jesus Came to see me in my apartment october 9 2006.
And he clearly told me that There was 3 seperate kingdoms in heaven.
Celestial Kingdom
Telestial Kingdom
Terrestrial Kingdom
All in heaven.
I may not have them in the right order though.
Celestial kingdom is where I believe we all came from coming to earth.
It is where God lives too.
it is a beautifull place.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  11:53 PM
Cranky Media Guy

I am sory sir
But I wish I could prove to you such memories for me are real.
But I can not prove any thing to you here with proof.
Other than quote the Bible to you from what it says.
But I don't feel that I have to quote some thing you may or may not believe when I say it.
all I know is this my friend.
the memories are real for me.
Sounds touch emotions pains all of it was real to me.
I was there in person.
And the man talking to me was gods voice and no other.

What can I say But that I hope you will have a open mind enough to believe one day.
Pre Birthers as some are saying are here to stay.
and we are getting more all the time.
Indigo's children as most are called.
My mortal father linnie told everyone I was special child to him.
Before he died.
1982.
He did not realize just how special his son was to him.
Before he died.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Oct 31, 2009  at  11:59 PM
Cranky

My father linnie was 71 and half
died of cancer too many cigarets.

Joseph
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  12:00 AM
I'm disappointed in you all. You tell me a story, unsupported by any facts or evidence and you expect me to believe it. You actually scoff at the notion of asking for facts or evidence.

When I tell YOU an unlikely story, however, you all refuse to say whether you believe it or not. My story is no crazier than YOUR stories, but for some reason, you won't say that you believe it.

I can see no reason why you WOULDN'T believe it, given your denial of the necessity for facts, evidence or scientific possibility. You have my word that it happened, just as I have YOUR word that you can remember events which occurred before you had fully formed sensory organs.

According to you all, your "recollection" of these alleged events is sufficient for someone to take you at your word. Do you or do you NOT extend the same courtesy to me that you demand from others?
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  12:32 AM
Hello Cranky

No reason to be disappointed in anyone. It is not important that you believe anyone nor should you, I wouldn't either. I have been disappointed in my Mormon family for not valuing me as an individual while cramming Mormon crap down my throat. I don't really have much respect for religion in general and does more harm than good. I think the mythologies the entire structure of our society are based on are crap based on myths and superstition and the world would be a better place if religion were thrown out the proverbial window. I also believe science should not be based on some divine anthropic principle which would only sabotage scientific progress however, I am not a positivist either for there are things that are not so black and white. I think their are many great scientists who are atheists and have contributed much to science steven weinberg being one.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  04:29 AM
Cranky

Your asking for facts and figures about my own expierence
Tell me how is that possible
I was born with my own expierence from a spirit to a mortal in 1956.
I base mine own being there, I base it on pain, Emotion, Touch Sound.
Hearing.
I don't need facts to tell me it hapened my friend.
If you have got to have facts that my expierence hapened for me.
Get it from some where else.
I believe your story too
But I do not need no facts to believe what you say.
A mans word is spose to be his bond.
My expierence was real for me.
It was not a darn dream my friend.
Read your bible, Read your Bible.
There is your darn facts.
The only evidence I can offer is drawings.
I have no other evidence except my word.
If you can not believe that Then you have a problem believeing any thing.
Don't argue with me any more.
I will opt out of this program.
Your asking for facts and evidence and you are asking for proof.
the name cranky suits you.
I have all ways been a guy who tells it like it is.
Your telling me to my face here that I am a lier about my prebirth expierence.
I was born with the memories caused by that expierence.
I almost died 3 seperate times getting in to this life.
And you want facts and evidence.
Why aint my word good enough that I was a fallen angel.
From grace of god.
No people like you think I am a crack head.
You better question other people and leave me aloan if you can't take my word for a first hand account.
I've got profetionals believeing every word I say.
I can not draw pictures of what I never seen.
It is not in the cards.
Facts and evidence
Get a life my friend.
You would believe the truth if it were in front of you.
I realy hope that some day you can accept a persons true account like my mine with out question.
I believe yours.
Why can you not believe mine.
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  06:18 AM
Cranky, Joe & Eric -

I have got to say something.

Joe - I think you mixed Eric up with me and my questions in some of your responses above. Thanks for explaining more of what you remember. I do believe you are telling us what you remember.
Question for you - are you Mormon?

Eric - I do not participate in organized religion, and agree with a lot of what you wrote above.

Cranky - I could never believe your story. Common sense tells me that you did not fly to the dark side of the moon under your own power, and once you arrived there, you ate Skittles with a family of blue kangaroos. M & M s, perhaps, but not Skittles!

The real issue is this: I'm not creating a hoax by telling anyone what I remember. If it isn't a hoax, then how can others like Roger have the same pre-birth memories that I do? What is causing this?

Cranky, we are devoted to the truth (veracity), but only because people do not like to be told that they didn't remember an event, when they know they did experience it. It is that simple.

I'm too busy to create hoaxes. There is something about pre-birth memories that must be explained, and more research is needed. There are people who do research it, I'm sure ...

Thank you,

Chris
Posted by chris  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  01:06 PM
Chris, I've said repeatedly that it isn't your sincerity that's under question, it's your veracity.

The fact that someone sincerely believes something is NOT proof that it is real.

I notice, by the way, that you've ducked my question about whether or not you believe MY story.

If you don't, please tell me what grounds you have for that disbelief. It wouldn't be fair to ask me to prove it, since that would be holding me to a higher standard than you expect to be held.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  01:30 PM
Cris

I'm sorry if I got you mixed up with Eric

On Cranky's question.
I have to agree with Cris on this one.
Some one reported 2 years ago on the net the same thing Cranky is reporting.

But I'm sorry I'm 53 years old and every time I think about pre birth memories guy's.
Had it not hapened to me personaly.
I would have to say disagree with the entire thing.
But in all honesty here to the true believers of prebirth such as my self.
I've got to tell you the prebirth ideas are also premortal existence in the kingdom of heaven.
I'm going to post my thoughts seperate here for a minute Cris.
For all to read.
About my self.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:09 PM
About my self.

Joe
Was born Jan 1956 Texas.
I don't mind you all knowing about it.
I am walking around on a deformed right ankle that I twisted in the fall from the sky in heaven.
I ware out two to three pairs of shoes a year.
Because I run the heals over on the outer back edges of my shoes.
My right heal is pulled up sky wards on the in side towards the knee area that is why I know my fall from grace as an angel is for real for me.
I've had 5 seperate get it Cranky, 5 seperate foot and leg doctors including pediatricians for children tell me that I have birth defects in my lower leg and ankles.
It is because I nearly broke it in the fall from heavens sky.
And there is nothing I can do to get my ankle straightened out.
I was very offended by what Cranky has said to me in his postings.
Bout facts and verification of my memories.
There not only memories there the real thing.
I run in to a downed column about 20 feet long and 2 foot wide.
With sharp edges on it.
And hit my shin bone hard enough that it nearly nocked the breath out of me as I had fell to my but. On to the ground its self.
To me that is verification in its self.
That is why I call my exspierence real and premortal existence.
Even the spirit body has bones in it for the skeliton part of us.
You guys did help me figure out one thing Cris,
I was indeed an Angel fallen from heaven.
Because in my real expierence in heaven.
I find my self constantly falling to the ground through the clouds.
PMH Atwater on the net for near death is researching both parts of the life its self.
But the Near Death part seems more popular among researchers.
Cris I am a converted member of the Mormon Church from Salt Lake City Utah.
even they do not believe every thing. where prebirth memories are concerned I don't believe they do any way.
There main concerns seem to be to get people back in to heaven through true belief.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:23 PM
Hi Joe -

I look forward to reading your next post.

Cranky - I do not believe your story. The reason why is probability. No human has the power to fly to the dark side of the moon under their own power. That can be scientifically proven.

However, how the heavens are earth were created cannot be yet proven (at least completely or exactly). Our very existence, and why were are here, and how we got here on earth, is very important to most people on earth. Since I have a possible explanation, based on what I remember, I'm more than excited and willing to tell others about it - especially since somehow, someway, other people also have memories very similar to mine, which is very hard to explain away by chance.

Therefore, your story isn't a good comparison to use versus the question of how we got here on earth. None of us can prove what we are telling you, we can just state what we honestly remember. Even in court, often one must prove things beyond a reasonable doubt, not completely prove something, so please go a bit easy on us here. We are only mere mortals now, with many limitations ...
Posted by Chris  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:32 PM
Cris

Hi

I was born in 1956 with my expierence in tact from being in heaven.
I never seen a church till 1968 from 1956.
I was an only child born alife to my mortal parents who both did not realy want me.
When I was born a mortal.
I do not blaim them for it.
I consider it a test given to me heavenly father his self to see if I would stand up to the challenges of life in general.
Given me by god.
I was converted to the mormon church in 1990 in Oregon.
I finally found that my expierence was also spoken of in there bible and I have not been reading there bible or the old and new testament I grew up with.
But Jesus Christ asked every one a question that has not been answered by any one.
Jesus Christ question goes some thing like so.
How can you truly believe what you see.
When you do not believe what you hear with your ears.
No one has answered his question honestly yet.
For Jesus Christ said to the none believer For all things are possible with God if you believe
God.
I'm sorry Chris but this Question asked by Jesus Christ is mainly pointed at Cranky media guy.
Why can you believe what you see and not what you hear Cranky.
I sit here on this computer and tell the truth yet you want facts.
You want me to believe your story is true.
But I have yet to see it in its full content.
You lost me with the green skittles.
I trully believe I am a fallen angel my self.
I'm not going to sit here and preach to any one.
some people do not want to hear preaching.
that is ok.
I just want to tell my story to who ever will believe it.
As Jesus Said to the father with the little sick boy.
If you believe then all things are possible in god.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:35 PM
Cris

I my self was born a mortal unable to talk till 1963 I was 8 years old when I finally spoke a word of english.
I've spoke english through thought transfer all of my life in heaven.
In heaven I was a grown adult about 6 foot high.
With a wing span as an angel that may equal out to about 14 foot wing span because an angel has bigger wings I think so any way to be able to fly with.
Every idea that comes to mind of angel wings tells me that true angel wings mounted on a person as a sole in heaven.
Has a bout a foot clearance of the wings sticking above the persons head when carried right to keep from dragging the ground.
that is why I am saying a wing span at full length would be about 14 foot for me.
From tip to tip.
I do recall vegally snow white feathers glistening in the sun light of day.
That shiney part in the feathers them selves of an angel wing.
Could be some unknown force that an angel has in them.
I do not know for sure.
My dad nearly kicked me out of the house one time over my questions to him because he was not willing to listen.
one more thing you might keep in mind.
Did you need food and water in heaven.
Where I was at I had no interest in such things.
I did not know what hungar pain was till I was born a mortal child baby size about 8 pounds.
Then stomach hurt like hell because it was hungery.
Plus I would get thirsty.
Oh the Bathroom problems as a child.
you don't want to go there nasty nasty.
I would make my mortal mother sick with it.
Ofcourse I never knew what it was.
Still it was nasty.
We do not want to go there.
That is part of becoming mortal.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:48 PM
Cris and Eric

Even though I finally joined the Mormon faith head quartered in Salt Lake City Utah.
I have since then did what is called back slideing church wise.
My job pretty much keeps me grounded on Sunday where Church is concerned at.
I'm so blind in both eyes I have to use glasses to read with with every thing I do.
I do not read the Bible as often as I should.
I've told the mormon church about my expierence pre birth memory wise.
They act like they do not believe it in Texas.
So I do not tell them any more.
I am a very big person on shareing my story with every one.
My book will have 71 pages when it is redone or more.
I have drawings in it.
And scriptures to back up the premortal idea in the Bible its self.
And war in heaven.
I agree with you Cris on the idea not put us down.
But I'd like people to be a little more people friendly when I say the truth.
If they do not believe my truth from me.
That is all right.
But I do not need them to bite off my head because I lack fisical proof for them.
Proof or verification and facts is some thing that is not in the cards for me.
My birth defect in my ankles is a fall from heaven injurie caused by the fall turned in to a birth defect.
But I can not prove that to any one.
it wares out my shoes though.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:57 PM
Chris said:

"Cranky - I do not believe your story. The reason why is probability. No human has the power to fly to the dark side of the moon under their own power. That can be scientifically proven."

So you don't believe my story because it's scientifically impossible but you DO believe that a human being can remember events from before they had fully formed bodily organs, including a brain. Fascinating.

By the way, since when did SCIENCE come into play here? I thought you guys thought that FACTS and EVIDENCE didn't matter.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  12:29 AM
I will have to say that science still does not have all the answers and even if and when a theory of everything is reached their will still be mysteries to unravel and there will always be a need for science and string theory may never be proven. Some quantum physicist even have theories about consciousness itself and wonder if light could have properties of consciousness. There is the phenomena of quantum teleportation in super position states i.e. instantaneous information shared with another quantumly entangled particle. Also, light and matter particles have probability waves. Light is also a messenger particle keeping the electrons in their orbits and is also responsible for the strong color force keeping the quarks bound together. Many things in quantum mechanics defy ordinary logic of the way we humans think reality should be. How is it possible that conscious observation should have such an effect on reality? What principles govern evolution, and what is the fabric of reality other than what we form from it towards greater and greater entropy and diversity? Brian Greene and others theorize that if mater were to go into a black hole that the closer it approaches the advent horizon the more and more mass less it would become until it was converted into light. I think that the jitters of the elusive higgs boson is responsible for the energy creating gravity and that black holes create a form of vacuum responsible for the inflatron field accelerating the universe in its expansion or dark energy. But that is just an idea and I don
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  01:57 AM
I'm confused. When I pointed out that science says that a person cannot have memories from a time before they had fully developed bodily organs, I was told that scientific evidence doesn't matter. Now, however, when *I* tell a fantastic story, the scientific improbability of it is used against me.

"I will have to say that science still does not have all the answers and even if and when a theory of everything is reached their will still be mysteries to unravel and there will always be a need for science..."

OK, so if that's your position, then you have NO basis for disbelieving my story about flying to the moon under my own power. After all, science may say that that is impossible, but it doesn't know everything, right?

You folks seem more than a wee bit inconsistent about whether you accept or reject science.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  01:37 PM
Eric

Your question of mere mortal

No Let me explain

I am mortal from my own birth in 1956 to my parents
But with the memory of real expierences in heaven still attached.
I some times wonder if I am more than just a mortal person.
I just never have looked at my expierence from any other points of view for my self except for what it is for me.
Some times the pre birth memories make it hard to sleep at noght or to concentrate on other things.
I am very glad to know that I have lived in another time and another life before coming to earth.
But I on the other hand have to slowly learn to live with both parts of my life as one now. here on earth.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  07:30 PM
Scientific evidence can not conclude if one can or can
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  12:10 AM
Eric

I believe some how in ones own life that they bring awareness with them to this life on earth.
I did not make up my story for me personally.
Makeing up my own story would serve no real purpose but to hurt my self.
I can not and will not do that.
Pre Birth memories are real for me.
I've never been out side of the united states of america on any travel to the holy land.
But still I fell over a column by hitting my left knee on it.
that is very real for me.
And I hope that Cranky can understand that part.
It is real for me.
Just as any thing for you would be real too you as well.
I will take mine with me as long as I live my self.
Because my memories are not only memories they are real expierence to me as well.
I refuse to have a scientist tell me I made up my story for amusement.
I may stay away from this sight eventually museum of hoaxs
I don't believe in makeing hoaxs my self.
It would serve no real purpose for me.
To get on here and brag about a story.
War destruction in heaven for me was very real.
The spirit body has sight, hearing, Touch, Feelings, And understanding.
The mortal body has none of the above.
When you leave this old mortal body in the end for say 100 years of life or more or less.
on earth.
You take your sense of smell or taste or your sense of emotions and all of your love with you where ever the next life takes you too.
My story is not made up.
The story Cranky told.
About skittles I don't know.
I still have to disagree with him too as well.
With my own story you can compare notes with the bible just on war in heaven alone and see that war there did hapened at that time.
in heaven.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  04:45 AM
I have got one thing to say about my own premortal memories before coming to earth.
My own fall from heaven just before I was born guys.
Has left me with a permanent calling card a souvinear if you will.
It has left me with an ankle damage I can barely walk on, It has long term affects on my driveing any Vehicles.
My right ankle is healed up deformed because of the fall through the heavens.
I landed on it wrong nearly breaking it.
In this life on earth, some would think that I got the injury to my right ankle from sky diveing from plains.
I got in heaven from falling from the heavens sky its self.
I'll go to my grave with this injury.
It lays over nearly flat just sitting on the floor its self.
This is proof to me that my pre birth memories are very real to me as I did expierence them.
One dose not realise the pain such an injury causes to to the ankle and heal section to the leg joint its self where pain is concerned.
I was listed on here as a hoax.
Good luck getting any one to believe you on the prebirth memories.
Mine are very much real to me.
And I do not approve of people putting me down as a hoax.
I will not be answering this sight any more.
it has one big none believer on it who listed me on another sight as a hoax.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  02:01 PM
Hi Everyone,

First - Eric is really smart and enlightened!
Second, Joe is a sincere person who has been presented with challenges like his deformity, since birth, but still cares enough about everyone else in the world to share his story, in order to give them hope. Maybe in that regard, we are similar.

If only science is to be the main determinant of explaining the meaning and creation of life, then throw out all history that happened before the 16th century here on earth. Haven't you ever looked at the Hubble Telescope deep field photo in awe? Do you just see galaxies, or know that the magnificence of this splendid creation was done by a power much higher than ourselves? That the molecular bonds that hold DNA molecules together were designed to? I hardly believe in intelligent design, but am too intelligent to say never say never. Is there a god? Each person can answer that, as far as what has occurred in their life. Science is just a manmade hobby. Designing a universe is something else all together. Scientists cannot be errogant, and must search for the truth. No one has been able to answer my question concerning how Roger and I can have the same pre-birth memory. How can we?
Posted by chris  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  04:47 PM
Chris

Thank you for understanding my deformity I've had all of my life.
I have to continually buy new shoe's every year just so I will not go barefoot in my life.
I've had 5 seperate doctors from 1958 to 2009 ask why I am not wareing leg braces for the lower legs and ankles mainly.
It is because either my parents mortal wise was poor all of there life's or I my self never had the money to pay for such things.
It makes it very difficult in the long run to walk on concrete in buildings shopping malls and big stores
Because of the concrete its self.
As I get older in life I notice the bumb ankle more often.
Who ever listed me as a hoax on the enternet.
They do not believe in God any way I guess.
Any way, I reported my story to the CNN people And we shall see what they may have to say as well about my pre mortal to pre birth memory.
of life in heaven.
I sent them a disk with my book upgrade on it.
I got my bumb ankle as a souvinear from a fall in the heavens just before mortal birth in 1956.
It felt like I had broken the ankle joint in my right ankle as a spirit.
Then it turned in to a birth defect when My unborn baby body and Me as a spirit joined at delivery in Jan 1956.
Of Course I do not expect a scientist to believe such a thing hapened to me with out trying to explain it all away.
You would make a great friend Chris.
Do not let any body prove you wrong.
Our heavenly father whether we accept it or not.
dose give each of us a gift in our life's and it is for us to figure out what that gift is in our life's.
I think my gift was to share my true story with others who have pre birth memories as well.
And that my story might be of help to others as well.
I see you and one other person share the same memories.
I truely believe you in that respect that you are telling the truth.
I don't need documentation or proof that you are telling the truth to me.
I believe you are truthfull in what you are saying.
Question: In your own memories do you ever recall a blacked out door way built back in to a white brick wall with the sky over it.
And tall trees growing against the one end of it.
with a slopeing hill just beyond the trees them selves.

It was what I went past and was forebidden to me to enter it.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  06:19 PM
Chris

Couple of other things to remember about me.
And this could go for any one reading this post.
My right lower leg bad ankle and foot has kept me all of my life growing up from participateing in school olympics programs running jogging
And it kept me out of the marines and caused me an honorable discharge from the national guard unit in Oregon on medical basis.
A bad ankle caused by an injury in heaven in a fall then becoming a mortal baby at birth to grow up can cause all kinds of birth defects as a mortal
And can cause long term affects to show up during running in the olympics them selves if not noticed through any other means than just running vigorously on the bad ankles in the feet.
A person dose not need a doctor to tell them about the pain and what is causing it.
They just need the doctor to find it and treat it.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  06:39 PM
Chris, I don
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  12:43 AM
Eric

A question for you
When you died at age 29 in another life.
Was it here in the USA
or another country.
I read your post again and seen that it was for cranky and not me.
I am glad to know that it was for him and not me.
I have a hard time getting people to understand that it is possible to understand a person has lived a life before mortal child delivery to earth.
By there naturel mothers to them.
I read a post about 5 years ago on a little boy almost 6 years old.
He was barely able to sleep at all.
His parents claimed he was haveing world war 2 war sindrome that was keeping him in nightmares.
The boy claimed to be a downed marine pilot in world war two of a p51 mustang.
And his parents didn't know what to think.
So they checked it out.
And the United States Navel service found a Aircraft carrier with the same plain on it.
but the pilot was missing.
The boy claimed he was shot by enemy gun fire.
Both stories were a perfect match.
The plain its self was on the sunken aircraft carrier nearly cut intoo by a shot to the side.
Navel report states that no pilot would have ever survived such a torn up plain.
Aircraft carrier disappeared at sea with all hands on board it.
During the war.
aircraft carrier was found right where the boy said it would be.
Fasinateing.
The boy got to meet his first biological parents before they past according to the story its self.
I think it can be found under nabel misterys or prebirth subject area not sure.
If I find it again will let you know.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  04:53 AM
I am very sure I was the 11th Gyalwang Drukpa
(Tenzin Khenrab Geleg Wangpo) who died in Buxa, India which is a refugee camp after he and others fled Tibet their Temple in 1960 because of the Chinese occupation of Tibet and the Dalai lamas exile in 1959 followed by 80,000 refugees. Everything matches with my memory including events that have unfolded in this life.

Yes I do remember seeing the documentary about the boy being shot down by Japanese. It was a fascinating story.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  04:21 PM
Eric

Yes the boy shot down that was him.
I was contacted by another publisher today by telephone.
They want to see my book I rote.
And so I have sent it to them all ready.
On my prebirth memories.
they say they are number 1 book publishing company in America.
Out of MD.
I have one other book stored at home that needs published with drawings.
Near Death in 1981
Caused by a farm tractor wreck of all things.
I was out late watching Zorrow the movie.
And stayed up late.
Went to work following day fell a sleep on tractor and went over a cliff.
rode the tractor to the bottom and was drug the rest of way and nearly ripped half in too at pelvic bone.
by ten inch apple tree.
do not try this at home.
too dangerous.
driving tractor while a sleep dose not pay.
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  04:38 PM
Hi Eric & Joe,

Glad you two are having a nice little chat. Eric, how cool. Ive been reading up on you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyalwang_Drukpa

Also, http://www.drukpa.org/

On the later website it states:

"It is very easy for us to talk about reincarnation of enlightened masters, but for us to believe with a deep sense of devotion or conviction that they are TRULY the reincarnation is actually not so easy, because we are very shallow and if I may daringly say, most of us have many doubts about karma deep in our hearts."

All I can tell you is that there is a natural process for things, and I would not be so convinced yet that you have nothing to offer by recounting your story - what do family members know away? (ha ha) Your words on this webiste might affect others, for example.

It is only through truthful discussion, can the topic of pre-birth memories and reincarnation be fully examined. It is hard for me to say too, but maybe I was here on earth before too. It seemed like I might have been a fallen abgel in heaven, but only in the scenario where I was some how linked to the wrong group previously. In fact the angels/spirit guides that I specifically were a different from me. They wore robes and glowed a blue color. I don't remember any wings, however.

Joe - I do not remember any doorway. However, I bet each spirit had unique challenges in heaven, and the door meant something specifically to you. I do remember being tightly controlled in heaven. We were being told what we could do, and could not do, and where we had to go - which was earth.
Posted by chris  on  Thu Nov 05, 2009  at  06:13 PM
chris

Tightly controled in heaven.
Yes I believe that I was too also.
The blacked out door way that I speak of to you.
It was forbidden for me to enter in to it when I seen it.
I twisted my right ankle nearly twisting it off when I landed just beyond that door way on the ground.
I was born with a stiff ankle after that when I was born a mortal on earth.
There was a very large man standing behind the wall of brick that this door way was inside of.
And he let out a yell in my direction just as I was thinking about going through this door way its self.
And when he yelled at me.
I had a sudden feeling of my own death wash over my entire body had I went through this door way its self at the time.
My own death is what I was afraid of and so I ran for fear of dieing and never seen him again.
After that.
that was the secound time I had felt death of my own spirit had I went through that door way.
So I went another direction.
I came very close to dieing as a mortal in the hospital its self as well.
Because my mother had given up on her own child delivery.
She was worn out and tired.

I have not posted on here since the last time I posted on this site.
Some wants me to offer proof that I did these things.
how can you offer proof on some thing that took place in another space of time and another planet.
called heaven.
I have a stiff ankle from the fall its self I was born with.
And no body believes that is enough either for proof.
I nearly broke it and my wrists landing on the ground wrong.
That is ok though.
I know it hapened to me.
And I do not feel that I have to prove any thing to any body.
I hope you believe me chris about my premortal memories before birth.
They were real to me.
So real to me just think of my reality to me as you would burn your fingers on a hot pot takeing it off of the stoves hot burner.
That is how real my prebirth memories are to me.
I'll take it to my old age with me in my life as it hapened.
I sent my book to another publisher yesterday.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Thu Nov 05, 2009  at  06:43 PM
Chris and Eric

Hi

This is to let you know that I have sent my book to another publisher.
May be they will accept it maybe not.
But I am also posting here for the last time.
I feel that I am being asked to show some kind of real proof of my story.
and that is just not possible to do.
I know that every thing has hapened to me and I know it as possitive proof to my self that it hapened to me.
there fore I do not believe I should have to prove any thing to any body.
My expierences all hapened for me and are all real.
Includeing the bad ankle caused by the fall in heaven.
Everyone is saying that is not proof eiither that prebirth expierences hapened to me.
This sight for reporting hoaxs on and my expierence is real.
It is not a hoax.
Good luck.
I can believe people when they say some thing hapened.
But no one can believe me with out posting my story to other sights as hoax.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Thu Nov 05, 2009  at  10:23 PM
Could you folks please give me the names of some of the "scientists" you claim say that pre-birth memories are real?

Some of you believe that if two people claim to have had similar experiences, they must be real. In that case, the Earth must have been flat a few hundred years ago since many millions of people believed it was back then. After all, FACTS and EVIDENCE aren't necessary; it's all about what you BELIEVE is true.

I'm just trying to figure out how and when the Earth became round. Or did it?
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Fri Nov 06, 2009  at  11:36 PM
Cranky

I'm done talking to you.
You wouldn't believe a snake was real if it bit you on the foot.

My memories are caused by real events in heaven.
If you can not accept my telling you mine is real.
I am not going to offer you proof to some thing I know is real.
If I had a chevy truck blue.
You would believe that.
But yet you can not accept that I recall my life in heaven before I was born.
Leave me alone.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  07:48 AM
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