Prebirth Experiences

At RoyalChild.com Sarah and Brent Hinze investigate Prebirth Experiences. They define these as when "a parent, sibling, aunt, uncle, or grandparent, etc., receives communication from a child before she is born, or in many cases, before he was even conceived." I hadn't heard of this particular variety of psychic (or spiritual) phenomenon before. It seems like a strange offshoot of past-life communication... except that instead of talking with people who once existed, you're communicating with people who are waiting to exist in the future. My question is: what if a 'parent' communicates with their child-to-be, but then they end up never having a child. Who, then, were they chatting with? Would the Hintzes define this as an imposter pre-birth experience? (via Holy Weblog)

Paranormal Psychology

Posted on Wed Dec 22, 2004



Comments

Cris and Eric

Even though I finally joined the Mormon faith head quartered in Salt Lake City Utah.
I have since then did what is called back slideing church wise.
My job pretty much keeps me grounded on Sunday where Church is concerned at.
I'm so blind in both eyes I have to use glasses to read with with every thing I do.
I do not read the Bible as often as I should.
I've told the mormon church about my expierence pre birth memory wise.
They act like they do not believe it in Texas.
So I do not tell them any more.
I am a very big person on shareing my story with every one.
My book will have 71 pages when it is redone or more.
I have drawings in it.
And scriptures to back up the premortal idea in the Bible its self.
And war in heaven.
I agree with you Cris on the idea not put us down.
But I'd like people to be a little more people friendly when I say the truth.
If they do not believe my truth from me.
That is all right.
But I do not need them to bite off my head because I lack fisical proof for them.
Proof or verification and facts is some thing that is not in the cards for me.
My birth defect in my ankles is a fall from heaven injurie caused by the fall turned in to a birth defect.
But I can not prove that to any one.
it wares out my shoes though.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sun Nov 01, 2009  at  08:57 PM
Chris said:

"Cranky - I do not believe your story. The reason why is probability. No human has the power to fly to the dark side of the moon under their own power. That can be scientifically proven."

So you don't believe my story because it's scientifically impossible but you DO believe that a human being can remember events from before they had fully formed bodily organs, including a brain. Fascinating.

By the way, since when did SCIENCE come into play here? I thought you guys thought that FACTS and EVIDENCE didn't matter.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  12:29 AM
I will have to say that science still does not have all the answers and even if and when a theory of everything is reached their will still be mysteries to unravel and there will always be a need for science and string theory may never be proven. Some quantum physicist even have theories about consciousness itself and wonder if light could have properties of consciousness. There is the phenomena of quantum teleportation in super position states i.e. instantaneous information shared with another quantumly entangled particle. Also, light and matter particles have probability waves. Light is also a messenger particle keeping the electrons in their orbits and is also responsible for the strong color force keeping the quarks bound together. Many things in quantum mechanics defy ordinary logic of the way we humans think reality should be. How is it possible that conscious observation should have such an effect on reality? What principles govern evolution, and what is the fabric of reality other than what we form from it towards greater and greater entropy and diversity? Brian Greene and others theorize that if mater were to go into a black hole that the closer it approaches the advent horizon the more and more mass less it would become until it was converted into light. I think that the jitters of the elusive higgs boson is responsible for the energy creating gravity and that black holes create a form of vacuum responsible for the inflatron field accelerating the universe in its expansion or dark energy. But that is just an idea and I don
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  01:57 AM
I'm confused. When I pointed out that science says that a person cannot have memories from a time before they had fully developed bodily organs, I was told that scientific evidence doesn't matter. Now, however, when *I* tell a fantastic story, the scientific improbability of it is used against me.

"I will have to say that science still does not have all the answers and even if and when a theory of everything is reached their will still be mysteries to unravel and there will always be a need for science..."

OK, so if that's your position, then you have NO basis for disbelieving my story about flying to the moon under my own power. After all, science may say that that is impossible, but it doesn't know everything, right?

You folks seem more than a wee bit inconsistent about whether you accept or reject science.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  01:37 PM
Eric

Your question of mere mortal

No Let me explain

I am mortal from my own birth in 1956 to my parents
But with the memory of real expierences in heaven still attached.
I some times wonder if I am more than just a mortal person.
I just never have looked at my expierence from any other points of view for my self except for what it is for me.
Some times the pre birth memories make it hard to sleep at noght or to concentrate on other things.
I am very glad to know that I have lived in another time and another life before coming to earth.
But I on the other hand have to slowly learn to live with both parts of my life as one now. here on earth.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Mon Nov 02, 2009  at  07:30 PM
Scientific evidence can not conclude if one can or can
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  12:10 AM
Eric

I believe some how in ones own life that they bring awareness with them to this life on earth.
I did not make up my story for me personally.
Makeing up my own story would serve no real purpose but to hurt my self.
I can not and will not do that.
Pre Birth memories are real for me.
I've never been out side of the united states of america on any travel to the holy land.
But still I fell over a column by hitting my left knee on it.
that is very real for me.
And I hope that Cranky can understand that part.
It is real for me.
Just as any thing for you would be real too you as well.
I will take mine with me as long as I live my self.
Because my memories are not only memories they are real expierence to me as well.
I refuse to have a scientist tell me I made up my story for amusement.
I may stay away from this sight eventually museum of hoaxs
I don't believe in makeing hoaxs my self.
It would serve no real purpose for me.
To get on here and brag about a story.
War destruction in heaven for me was very real.
The spirit body has sight, hearing, Touch, Feelings, And understanding.
The mortal body has none of the above.
When you leave this old mortal body in the end for say 100 years of life or more or less.
on earth.
You take your sense of smell or taste or your sense of emotions and all of your love with you where ever the next life takes you too.
My story is not made up.
The story Cranky told.
About skittles I don't know.
I still have to disagree with him too as well.
With my own story you can compare notes with the bible just on war in heaven alone and see that war there did hapened at that time.
in heaven.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  04:45 AM
I have got one thing to say about my own premortal memories before coming to earth.
My own fall from heaven just before I was born guys.
Has left me with a permanent calling card a souvinear if you will.
It has left me with an ankle damage I can barely walk on, It has long term affects on my driveing any Vehicles.
My right ankle is healed up deformed because of the fall through the heavens.
I landed on it wrong nearly breaking it.
In this life on earth, some would think that I got the injury to my right ankle from sky diveing from plains.
I got in heaven from falling from the heavens sky its self.
I'll go to my grave with this injury.
It lays over nearly flat just sitting on the floor its self.
This is proof to me that my pre birth memories are very real to me as I did expierence them.
One dose not realise the pain such an injury causes to to the ankle and heal section to the leg joint its self where pain is concerned.
I was listed on here as a hoax.
Good luck getting any one to believe you on the prebirth memories.
Mine are very much real to me.
And I do not approve of people putting me down as a hoax.
I will not be answering this sight any more.
it has one big none believer on it who listed me on another sight as a hoax.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  02:01 PM
Hi Everyone,

First - Eric is really smart and enlightened!
Second, Joe is a sincere person who has been presented with challenges like his deformity, since birth, but still cares enough about everyone else in the world to share his story, in order to give them hope. Maybe in that regard, we are similar.

If only science is to be the main determinant of explaining the meaning and creation of life, then throw out all history that happened before the 16th century here on earth. Haven't you ever looked at the Hubble Telescope deep field photo in awe? Do you just see galaxies, or know that the magnificence of this splendid creation was done by a power much higher than ourselves? That the molecular bonds that hold DNA molecules together were designed to? I hardly believe in intelligent design, but am too intelligent to say never say never. Is there a god? Each person can answer that, as far as what has occurred in their life. Science is just a manmade hobby. Designing a universe is something else all together. Scientists cannot be errogant, and must search for the truth. No one has been able to answer my question concerning how Roger and I can have the same pre-birth memory. How can we?
Posted by chris  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  04:47 PM
Chris

Thank you for understanding my deformity I've had all of my life.
I have to continually buy new shoe's every year just so I will not go barefoot in my life.
I've had 5 seperate doctors from 1958 to 2009 ask why I am not wareing leg braces for the lower legs and ankles mainly.
It is because either my parents mortal wise was poor all of there life's or I my self never had the money to pay for such things.
It makes it very difficult in the long run to walk on concrete in buildings shopping malls and big stores
Because of the concrete its self.
As I get older in life I notice the bumb ankle more often.
Who ever listed me as a hoax on the enternet.
They do not believe in God any way I guess.
Any way, I reported my story to the CNN people And we shall see what they may have to say as well about my pre mortal to pre birth memory.
of life in heaven.
I sent them a disk with my book upgrade on it.
I got my bumb ankle as a souvinear from a fall in the heavens just before mortal birth in 1956.
It felt like I had broken the ankle joint in my right ankle as a spirit.
Then it turned in to a birth defect when My unborn baby body and Me as a spirit joined at delivery in Jan 1956.
Of Course I do not expect a scientist to believe such a thing hapened to me with out trying to explain it all away.
You would make a great friend Chris.
Do not let any body prove you wrong.
Our heavenly father whether we accept it or not.
dose give each of us a gift in our life's and it is for us to figure out what that gift is in our life's.
I think my gift was to share my true story with others who have pre birth memories as well.
And that my story might be of help to others as well.
I see you and one other person share the same memories.
I truely believe you in that respect that you are telling the truth.
I don't need documentation or proof that you are telling the truth to me.
I believe you are truthfull in what you are saying.
Question: In your own memories do you ever recall a blacked out door way built back in to a white brick wall with the sky over it.
And tall trees growing against the one end of it.
with a slopeing hill just beyond the trees them selves.

It was what I went past and was forebidden to me to enter it.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  06:19 PM
Chris

Couple of other things to remember about me.
And this could go for any one reading this post.
My right lower leg bad ankle and foot has kept me all of my life growing up from participateing in school olympics programs running jogging
And it kept me out of the marines and caused me an honorable discharge from the national guard unit in Oregon on medical basis.
A bad ankle caused by an injury in heaven in a fall then becoming a mortal baby at birth to grow up can cause all kinds of birth defects as a mortal
And can cause long term affects to show up during running in the olympics them selves if not noticed through any other means than just running vigorously on the bad ankles in the feet.
A person dose not need a doctor to tell them about the pain and what is causing it.
They just need the doctor to find it and treat it.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Tue Nov 03, 2009  at  06:39 PM
Chris, I don
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  12:43 AM
Eric

A question for you
When you died at age 29 in another life.
Was it here in the USA
or another country.
I read your post again and seen that it was for cranky and not me.
I am glad to know that it was for him and not me.
I have a hard time getting people to understand that it is possible to understand a person has lived a life before mortal child delivery to earth.
By there naturel mothers to them.
I read a post about 5 years ago on a little boy almost 6 years old.
He was barely able to sleep at all.
His parents claimed he was haveing world war 2 war sindrome that was keeping him in nightmares.
The boy claimed to be a downed marine pilot in world war two of a p51 mustang.
And his parents didn't know what to think.
So they checked it out.
And the United States Navel service found a Aircraft carrier with the same plain on it.
but the pilot was missing.
The boy claimed he was shot by enemy gun fire.
Both stories were a perfect match.
The plain its self was on the sunken aircraft carrier nearly cut intoo by a shot to the side.
Navel report states that no pilot would have ever survived such a torn up plain.
Aircraft carrier disappeared at sea with all hands on board it.
During the war.
aircraft carrier was found right where the boy said it would be.
Fasinateing.
The boy got to meet his first biological parents before they past according to the story its self.
I think it can be found under nabel misterys or prebirth subject area not sure.
If I find it again will let you know.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  04:53 AM
I am very sure I was the 11th Gyalwang Drukpa
(Tenzin Khenrab Geleg Wangpo) who died in Buxa, India which is a refugee camp after he and others fled Tibet their Temple in 1960 because of the Chinese occupation of Tibet and the Dalai lamas exile in 1959 followed by 80,000 refugees. Everything matches with my memory including events that have unfolded in this life.

Yes I do remember seeing the documentary about the boy being shot down by Japanese. It was a fascinating story.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  04:21 PM
Eric

Yes the boy shot down that was him.
I was contacted by another publisher today by telephone.
They want to see my book I rote.
And so I have sent it to them all ready.
On my prebirth memories.
they say they are number 1 book publishing company in America.
Out of MD.
I have one other book stored at home that needs published with drawings.
Near Death in 1981
Caused by a farm tractor wreck of all things.
I was out late watching Zorrow the movie.
And stayed up late.
Went to work following day fell a sleep on tractor and went over a cliff.
rode the tractor to the bottom and was drug the rest of way and nearly ripped half in too at pelvic bone.
by ten inch apple tree.
do not try this at home.
too dangerous.
driving tractor while a sleep dose not pay.
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Wed Nov 04, 2009  at  04:38 PM
Hi Eric & Joe,

Glad you two are having a nice little chat. Eric, how cool. Ive been reading up on you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyalwang_Drukpa

Also, http://www.drukpa.org/

On the later website it states:

"It is very easy for us to talk about reincarnation of enlightened masters, but for us to believe with a deep sense of devotion or conviction that they are TRULY the reincarnation is actually not so easy, because we are very shallow and if I may daringly say, most of us have many doubts about karma deep in our hearts."

All I can tell you is that there is a natural process for things, and I would not be so convinced yet that you have nothing to offer by recounting your story - what do family members know away? (ha ha) Your words on this webiste might affect others, for example.

It is only through truthful discussion, can the topic of pre-birth memories and reincarnation be fully examined. It is hard for me to say too, but maybe I was here on earth before too. It seemed like I might have been a fallen abgel in heaven, but only in the scenario where I was some how linked to the wrong group previously. In fact the angels/spirit guides that I specifically were a different from me. They wore robes and glowed a blue color. I don't remember any wings, however.

Joe - I do not remember any doorway. However, I bet each spirit had unique challenges in heaven, and the door meant something specifically to you. I do remember being tightly controlled in heaven. We were being told what we could do, and could not do, and where we had to go - which was earth.
Posted by chris  on  Thu Nov 05, 2009  at  06:13 PM
chris

Tightly controled in heaven.
Yes I believe that I was too also.
The blacked out door way that I speak of to you.
It was forbidden for me to enter in to it when I seen it.
I twisted my right ankle nearly twisting it off when I landed just beyond that door way on the ground.
I was born with a stiff ankle after that when I was born a mortal on earth.
There was a very large man standing behind the wall of brick that this door way was inside of.
And he let out a yell in my direction just as I was thinking about going through this door way its self.
And when he yelled at me.
I had a sudden feeling of my own death wash over my entire body had I went through this door way its self at the time.
My own death is what I was afraid of and so I ran for fear of dieing and never seen him again.
After that.
that was the secound time I had felt death of my own spirit had I went through that door way.
So I went another direction.
I came very close to dieing as a mortal in the hospital its self as well.
Because my mother had given up on her own child delivery.
She was worn out and tired.

I have not posted on here since the last time I posted on this site.
Some wants me to offer proof that I did these things.
how can you offer proof on some thing that took place in another space of time and another planet.
called heaven.
I have a stiff ankle from the fall its self I was born with.
And no body believes that is enough either for proof.
I nearly broke it and my wrists landing on the ground wrong.
That is ok though.
I know it hapened to me.
And I do not feel that I have to prove any thing to any body.
I hope you believe me chris about my premortal memories before birth.
They were real to me.
So real to me just think of my reality to me as you would burn your fingers on a hot pot takeing it off of the stoves hot burner.
That is how real my prebirth memories are to me.
I'll take it to my old age with me in my life as it hapened.
I sent my book to another publisher yesterday.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Thu Nov 05, 2009  at  06:43 PM
Chris and Eric

Hi

This is to let you know that I have sent my book to another publisher.
May be they will accept it maybe not.
But I am also posting here for the last time.
I feel that I am being asked to show some kind of real proof of my story.
and that is just not possible to do.
I know that every thing has hapened to me and I know it as possitive proof to my self that it hapened to me.
there fore I do not believe I should have to prove any thing to any body.
My expierences all hapened for me and are all real.
Includeing the bad ankle caused by the fall in heaven.
Everyone is saying that is not proof eiither that prebirth expierences hapened to me.
This sight for reporting hoaxs on and my expierence is real.
It is not a hoax.
Good luck.
I can believe people when they say some thing hapened.
But no one can believe me with out posting my story to other sights as hoax.

Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Thu Nov 05, 2009  at  10:23 PM
Could you folks please give me the names of some of the "scientists" you claim say that pre-birth memories are real?

Some of you believe that if two people claim to have had similar experiences, they must be real. In that case, the Earth must have been flat a few hundred years ago since many millions of people believed it was back then. After all, FACTS and EVIDENCE aren't necessary; it's all about what you BELIEVE is true.

I'm just trying to figure out how and when the Earth became round. Or did it?
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Fri Nov 06, 2009  at  11:36 PM
Cranky

I'm done talking to you.
You wouldn't believe a snake was real if it bit you on the foot.

My memories are caused by real events in heaven.
If you can not accept my telling you mine is real.
I am not going to offer you proof to some thing I know is real.
If I had a chevy truck blue.
You would believe that.
But yet you can not accept that I recall my life in heaven before I was born.
Leave me alone.
Joe
Posted by Joseph Murphy  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  07:48 AM
Joseph said:

"I'm done talking to you.
You wouldn't believe a snake was real if it bit you on the foot."

What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course I would believe it if a snake bit me on the foot. After all, I would have the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of my swollen foot and a snake.

"If I had a chevy truck blue.
You would believe that."

Bad punctuation aside, yes, I would believe in the reality of the blue Chevy truck. Assuming you actually HAD one and not just the CLAIM of owning one, we'd be able to go for a ride in it, wouldn't we?

I can't see why you are mad at me for simply asking which alleged scientists say that pre-birth experiences can be remembered. If they exist, what's wrong with asking who they are?

Joseph, you might want to look into "false memory syndrome." It's a well-documented condition.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  01:55 PM
And what if we are just not able to proof it yet?
Which scientist would even try to research it, if nobody says they remember? They would all claim it is just the "false memory syndrome"
Even I know science can't fully lookup into the human brain yet.
Posted by Ai  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  07:25 PM
Hi Ai,

Hope you are doing well.

Cranky - very funny comments - as I can see your point. However ...

Cranky, please go to Youtube.com, and paste in this text below into the Youtube search:

1/5 Amazing. Boy Remembers Past Life

This is a 5 part series on a boy who remembers a past life. In the documentary, a scientist is mentioned who works at the Univeristy of Virgina, I recall, and is studying the phenomenon. I looked him up and he is for real. You may have to watch all 5 segments. Very touching story.

Also, since for most of my life, I never discussed my pre-birth memories with anyone, or had anything to do with the topic, I can hardly fit the definition of False Mmemory Syndrome, which is, according to http://www.fmsfonline.org/fmsffaq.html#WhatIsFMS

A condition in which a person's identity and interpersonal relationships are centered around a memory of traumatic experience which is objectively false but in which the person strongly believes. Note that the syndrome is not characterized by false memories as such. We all have memories that are inaccurate. Rather, the syndrome may be diagnosed when the memory is so deeply ingrained that it orients the individual's entire personality and lifestyle, in turn disrupting all sorts of other adaptive behavior. The analogy to personality disorder is intentional. False Memory Syndrome is especially destructive because the person assiduously avoids confrontation with any evidence that might challenge the memory. Thus it takes on a life of its own, encapsulated and resistant to correction. The person may become so focused on memory that he or she may be effectively distracted from coping with the real problems in his or her life.

The above does not describe me!

Now lets count - me, Roger, Eric, Joe, Ai -
do you think I'm paying these people off to say they have pre-birth memories, or could it just be that something might be there ... something that science should investigate further ? Joe knew exactly what I meant by things being "tightly controlled in heaven" - because guess what - he was there and experienced it too.
We could not just do whatever we wanted to there, or go wherever we wanted, and in fact were prevented by others from doing things or going certain places.
Posted by chris  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  09:52 PM
There are no scientists that make such a claim nor should they, as that would pollute Science. The assertion I was trying to make was that all of our ideas may not be truths in and of themselves, including your positivist beliefs Cranky. It doesn't mater if you believe anyone else or not just go with your own beliefs and evolve from there. I just found something on the internet which may be a loophole to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity where nothing can go faster than the speed of light. I found this very interesting and will let you all read for yourselves.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1081.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/speedoflight.htm
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  10:48 PM
Here is one about a World War 2 pilot.

Go to Youtube.com and enter the below text into search:

REINCARNATION- past life evidence, Part 1
Posted by chris  on  Sat Nov 07, 2009  at  11:01 PM
This is pasted from the first link in my previous post.

Once thought to be unbreakable, the speed of light as set by the laws of physics has been exceeded in two recent experiments, according to a New York Times news report. The speed of light in a vacuum, or empty space, is 186,000 miles per second. Exceeding this speed jeopardizes the entire theory of relativity, which rests on the idea that light speed is the universal limit to how fast anything can travel.

Scientists have found ways to break that speed limit. In one experiment performed by researchers at the NEC Research Institute in Princeton, N.J., a pulse of light was sent through a transparent chamber filled with specially prepared cesium gas and was pushed to travel at speeds of 300 times the normal speed of light. The light travels so fast that the main part of the light pulse exits the chamber even before it enters. Theoretically, this means that you could see a moment in time before it actually takes place.

Researchers at the NEC declined to comment on the experiment while it is under review by Nature, a weekly peer-reviewed science journal. However, Kazuko Anderson, a spokesperson with the NEC in New York, confirmed the accuracy of the New York Times report.

In a second superluminal study, published in the May 22 issue of Physical Review Letters, scientists at the Italian National Research Council of Florence shone light beams at a curved mirror. The mirror then shot the beams back at the instrument that measured the rays' speeds. The beam coming from the center of the mirror was measured at 5 percent to 7 percent faster than light speed. The authors said this effect only works over relatively short distances, such as the one meter used by the Italian researchers.

Exceeding the speed of light may have future implications for space travel and computer chips, but for now scientists are uncertain about the practical use of this discovery. Neither experiment was able to use a light beam to carry any information or prove that an object of any weight would be able to travel beyond light speed.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Sun Nov 08, 2009  at  06:56 AM
Eric said:

"Theoretically, this means that you could see a moment in time before it actually takes place."

Are you saying that this VERY early experimentation in faster-than-light speed travel might possibly mean that a human being could remember events from before their organs, including their brain, were fully formed?
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Sun Nov 08, 2009  at  01:46 PM
Hi Cranky,

I'm taking it to mean that much of science is still based on theory. Theory that needs to be adjusted in light (no pun intended) of new information. For years scientists thought that nothing could travel faster than the speed of light. Who is to say that scientists might someday detect a spirit in the human body, which might be able to remember events independent of having a brain/organ?
Posted by chris  on  Sun Nov 08, 2009  at  04:40 PM
Chris said:

"Who is to say that scientists might someday detect a spirit in the human body, which might be able to remember events independent of having a brain/organ?"

Well, Chris, science *might* someday say that I could (and did) fly to the moon under my own power, so I guess no one here should automatically discount my story. I mean, who is to say that science will NEVER back my story up?

I'll accept the apologies of those who laughed at me now, thank you very much.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Sun Nov 08, 2009  at  05:32 PM
Are you saying that this VERY early experimentation in faster-than-light speed travel might possibly mean that a human being could remember events from before their organs, including their brain, were fully formed?

No, personally I don't give a cranky crap about that subject anymore since it is really a dead horse. Why beat the poor thing the whole conversation is pointless and irrelevant. I was just commenting about an article. My last post was just copied because it didn't look like anyone clicked the link to read it. I just thought the article was interesting is all and was trying to find a common ground.

Truthfully, I am finding the conversation boring.
Posted by Eric Mitchell  on  Sun Nov 08, 2009  at  10:42 PM
This topic seems old now, and it's been a while since anyone posted here, but I wanted to thank all those who have shared their pre-birth memories. They are fascinating and I believe you all when you say they are real to you. I don't have pre-birth memories myself, but please know that my sharing your stories you give hope to people like myself that there is more to life than just the physical.

Cranky, I can also understand your line of arguement. I do however have a few questions for you. Science has proved a great many things, and has given us a wealth of improvements to our daily lives. But has it really disproved the validity of these experiences beyond all reasonable doubt? Does Science yet know *exactly* how memory and imagination works? How the subconscious works? Every mystery of human existance? Until it manages this, I believe it will hinder our progress to remain close minded to the possibility that these experiences are as real as the air you are currently breathing and the words you are currently reading. What if back when everyone believed the world was flat, everyone had remained close minded to the possibility that it may well be round? They would all have scoffed at the idea (and for a long time, did) that spending time and research into other possibilites when it could be used on much more valuable things like building their own personal wealth, or developing new ways to vanquish their enemies and take more land for themselves.

As far as I have read, Science has proven that the brain records, archives, and retrieves memories, but has not yet come to a definate conclusion on where they are stored. The following is a link to an article I recently read on this, though it obviously has a spiritual twist. http://www.viewzone.com/memorytest1.html If you have more up to date information where Science has proven otherwise I would be interested in seeing it.

Once more, thank you to those brave people who have shared their stories here for others to read.
Posted by Lissi  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  08:18 AM
Lissi said:

"Science has proved a great many things, and has given us a wealth of improvements to our daily lives. But has it really disproved the validity of these experiences beyond all reasonable doubt?"

So, you're holding science to a standard of absolute proof. OK, but it seems as if those who propose the notion of a zygote being able to form and store memories are held to a standard of "if you say it happened, that's proof enough." Also, you're asking science to prove a negative where the burden of proof actually belongs to those who propose that a fetus or zygote possesses the ability to form and store memories.

"What if back when everyone believed the world was flat, everyone had remained close minded to the possibility that it may well be round?"

Well, it would still have been round, for starters. Their belief in a flat Earth, no matter how sincere, would not have meant that the Earth really WAS flat.

It was people who actually TESTED it by sailing off into the unknown who determined the shape of our planet. That's what science does: TEST THINGS, as opposed to religion which simply says, "This is what I believe and no facts or evidence will convince me otherwise."

In fact, some religions and the adherents of them steadfastly maintained that the Earth WAS flat, long after the roundness of it had been well-established.

In a similar vein, it's only recently that the Catholic Church pardoned Galileo for the "sin" of saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun centuries ago. Galileo, of course, had actually TESTED things while the Pope arrogantly thought that his BELIEF outweighed that stupid "science" stuff.

"Once more, thank you to those brave people who have shared their stories here for others to read."

I don't doubt for a second that those people actually believe that they can remember being in the womb but I think it's important to remember that the plural of "anecdote" is not "fact."
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  01:54 PM
Hi CMG,

I've not made my mind up myself either way about the veracity of these accounts, purely because I have not experienced anything like it myself. However that to me does not mean that I can say they were not real events as much as it means I can say they were not...

"So, you're holding science to a standard of absolute proof. OK, but it seems as if those who propose the notion of a zygote being able to form and store memories are held to a standard of "if you say it happened, that's proof enough." Also, you're asking science to prove a negative where the burden of proof actually belongs to those who propose that a fetus or zygote possesses the ability to form and store memories."

No, I'm not holding science to a burden of proof, I'm merely stating that I trust in what science has proven without a shadow of a doubt (ie, the world is round) and keep an open mind about everything it is still trying to fathom (ie, where memories are actually stored). I don't believe a fetus or zygote can form or store memories, and I don't think these people do either. Often then see the fetus from an *outside* perspective in these visions. I remain open to the possibility that memories and consciousness are nonlocal (our "mind"), and the brain is a tool to be used by this mind to interact with an objective reality. http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers;/papers/morphic/morphic_intro.html is one such theory which may be closer to your comfort zone in that he does not believe in a life "between", or even a continuity between "selves", but he does believe the "mind" is nonlocal. This would mean that the memory was always "there", but could not be expressed or interupted by the brain until it matured enough - and it is then expressed by the words and concepts learnt in this life...

"Well, it would still have been round, for starters. Their belief in a flat Earth, no matter how sincere, would not have meant that the Earth really WAS flat."

And if pre-life memories are real, they'll still be real even if you believe they aren't 😊 Because of this, I don't think it really matters to these people that they can't prove it to you. To them they are real, and they give comfort to both them and others that we are more than just biological input/output devices.
Posted by Lissi  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  03:00 PM
"It was people who actually TESTED it by sailing off into the unknown who determined the shape of our planet. That's what science does: TEST THINGS, as opposed to religion which simply says, "This is what I believe and no facts or evidence will convince me otherwise."

Have you ever read the work of Bob Monroe? Or "My Big TOE" by Tom Campbell? http://books.google.com/books?id=6To0902iZeYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=my+big+toe&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false These guys aren't religious, believe in science, and repeatedly test things in their field of expertise. And yet they have been led to believe that there is something more than physical reality. If you only read the science papers that fit with your materialist view, you will be sure that this is all there is. But if you read contrasting work from scientists who take a different stance, you may find the limits of your mind stretched a little - I know I did. I'm not saying I take their word as gospel, I'm saying it gives me food for thought.

"In fact, some religions and the adherents of them steadfastly maintained that the Earth WAS flat, long after the roundness of it had been well-established.

In a similar vein, it's only recently that the Catholic Church pardoned Galileo for the "sin" of saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun centuries ago. Galileo, of course, had actually TESTED things while the Pope arrogantly thought that his BELIEF outweighed that stupid "science" stuff."

I agree with you. I don't like organised religion either - no offense to those here who do. I believe it closes peoples minds into controllable boxes and stops people from looking out for greater truths. I will say that I personally believe (if life after death really does exist) that sticking too strongly to a certain religion boxes you in even *after* death if you aren't willing to open up a little 😊 I don't believe in God in the way portrayed by the Bible, and I don't believe that Jesus is my one and only true savior. Again, that doesn't mean that I believe these people's memories. If dreams can be subjective, why can't the "afterlife"?

If you are completely closed to the idea of the "mind" existing seperate to the body, then I am wasting my words. And that's fine! 😊 I actually like talking about this stuff and being challanged, it gives me room to grow. I can't and don't want to change your views on anything. If, on the other hand, you fancy thinking outside the box a little, take a look into some of the references I've cited. Even better, if you don't already - take up meditation - Science say's it's good for your health! >:) And you may find your subconscious can tell you more than you know you knew!
Posted by Lissi  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  03:01 PM
Hi Lissi & Cranky,

I think the link that Lissi posted should be:

http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers;/papers/morphic/morphic_intro.html

The bottom line is this: I don't care about which religion is right or wrong, or what anyone else thinks about my memories. I know I have memories of another time and place, if I am honest with myself. I don't "believe" that I have them - I know with certainty that I have them. How can others have the same or very similar pre-birth memories as I do? At least that should prompt some scientific investigation.
Posted by chris  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  04:55 PM
Thank you for the correction Chris, I don't know how that ; got in there!

I've also spotted another major typo - When I said "Again, that doesn't mean that I believe these people's memories. If dreams can be subjective, why can't the "afterlife"? ", I meant "That doesn't mean I DON'T believe these people's memories". Sorry if there was confusion there Chris and you felt I was invalidating you. I believe the afterlife is subjective, and the "universal mind" as I prefer to call it can accomodate any type of "belief system". To me it explains that different people use different words to explain their experience, but the underlying mechanics are the same. The "God" I don't believe in is the one who picks and chooses who belongs in "heaven" and who doesn't, and that you must follow one path alone. I believe we judge ourselves with help from a higher wisdom, and make plans on how we can do "better" in our next lives so that we are more in balance with our fellow man and the earth that supports us.
Posted by Lissi  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  05:12 PM
Chris said:

"How can others have the same or very similar pre-birth memories as I do?"

I worked outside the White House from February 1995 to February 1998. There are a lot of, shall we say "interesting" people who flock to the White House for various reasons. During my time there, I knew two people who were convinced that someone had put a chip in their head for nefarious purposes. I also knew two people who were convinced that they were the Second Coming of Christ. How is it possible, Chris, that two people could have the same experiences? I mean, that MUST PROVE that they were right about them, yes?

Lissa said:

"I don't think it really matters to these people that they can't prove it to you. To them they are real, and they give comfort to both them and others that we are more than just biological input/output devices."

That would also be true of the people I knew outside the White House. The fact that they couldn't prove what they believed to be true made absolutely NO difference. It was real to them.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Tue Feb 09, 2010  at  06:44 PM
Hi Cranky,

The difference is that the people you describe were delusional. There are many sane people on posint their experiences on many different websites about their pre-birth memories - nothing so bold as having a computer chip planted in their head or that they are Christ. We are just ordinary people recounting what we remember, oue earliest memories, and in fact many of us were initally reluctant to tell anyone about the memories, for fear of being thought to be crazy by others. That alone demonstrates that were are not crazy or delusional. So, I know the point you are trying to make, but I don't think the comparison is truly apples to apples.
Posted by chris  on  Wed Feb 10, 2010  at  12:09 PM
sorry the above sentence should read:

There are many sane people posting their experiences on many different websites ...
Posted by chris  on  Wed Feb 10, 2010  at  12:10 PM
Chris said:

"The difference is that the people you describe were delusional."

I assume you're saying that because what the people I knew outside the White House had beliefs that are irrational, unlikely or defy the known laws of physics, yes?

"There are many sane people on posint their experiences on many different websites about their pre-birth memories - nothing so bold as having a computer chip planted in their head or that they are Christ."

I don't see how you can say that thinking you have a chip in your head is categorically more delusional than believing you can remember a time when you didn't have the organs required to store such memories. Not to say that I think what they told me was true, but it is NOT impossible to have a chip in one's head. Do you know for an absolute FACT that they DON'T have a chip in their heads? Can you PROVE that one of them ISN'T the Second Coming?

"[M]any of us were initally reluctant to tell anyone about the memories, for fear of being thought to be crazy by others. That alone demonstrates that were are not crazy or delusional."

My acquaintances outside the White House didn't always think they were the Second Coming or that they had a chip surgically implanted in their heads. There was a time when they came to believe those things and felt they had to tell others. Were they sane on Monday and suddenly crazy on Tuesday?

One of the things I found fascinating about those people is that when I had conversations with them about things other than their unusual obsessions, generally speaking they seemed as normal as anyone else.

Just so you understand, I'm not saying that people who think they can remember their zygote days are necessarily "crazy." I'm saying the line between sincere belief and delusion is not nearly as well-defined as you seem to think.

One man's sincere belief is another man's mental aberration.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Wed Feb 10, 2010  at  01:57 PM
OK, so you think that my pals outside the White House were delusional and therefore their belief in microchips implanted in peoples' skulls shouldn't be taken seriously.

It's one thing for people who come to the White House because of possible mental illness to espouse such things. Certainly, no person in a position of responsibility could possibly believe in such nonsense.

Hey, what's this article I just found in the Washington Post?

http://tinyurl.com/yhbucf3

Hmmm. Here we have responsible, productive members of society--state legislators, no less--who believe in the exact same thing as the "crazies" outside the White House. I'll bet some of these Virginia legislators were reluctant to talk about their beliefs, which apparently somehow makes them automatically credible.

Of course, on the other hand, according to Lissi, it doesn't really matter if this stuff is REAL. What matters is that believing in it makes a person feel better. Under that subjective standard, I guess the Virginia legislature should pass this bill ASAP. I mean, we DO want Virginians to feel better, don't we?
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Thu Feb 11, 2010  at  01:45 PM
CMG, if you are going to misquote me, then please state which part of my response you are referring to. I assume you are referring to:

"And if pre-life memories are real, they'll still be real even if you believe they aren't smile Because of this, I don't think it really matters to these people that they can't prove it to you. To them they are real, and they give comfort to both them and others that we are more than just biological input/output devices."

If you read my response carefully rather than skimming over it and reading between the lines, you will see that your interpretation is way off the mark. Perhaps your view of reality is not as free from preconceptions as you believed?

I said that "If they are real, then they will STILL be real, even if you disbelieve them" - much the same way that the earth is still round, even though people believed it to be flat. Therefore, it matters not to those with memories if they are believed or not. And to them, and others who are keen to read their stories, they give credance to the statement coined by Robert Monroe - that we are "more than our physical bodies".

Memories are subjective, framed within the perceptions and beliefs of those that hold them. However if you really do your research on this subject there is a current of an underlying truth to these memories which seem to be near universal between them, as Chris has tried to explain to you many times.

You keep bringing up the same arguements for your reasoning and get Cranky (ahem 😊) when people "gloss over them", however have you troubled yourself to give others the same respect by following the references that I or others have referenced? Or is your mind too focused on being "right" to give alternative views a chance?

Until Science explains the Mind-Body problem http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Mind-body_problem , I prefer to keep an open mind myself with view that there may be things that Science can never fully explain as they are outside of the subset of Physical Reality.
Posted by Lissi  on  Thu Feb 11, 2010  at  02:32 PM
Thanks Lissi, I agree with you completely.
Cranky, you really are a bit cranky today.
I think the Virginians sound a bit paranoid, although who wants more government or insurance company control over our bodies? Not me!
No chips please!

Cranky, the standard that you hold us to is: proving our memoires are real beyond a shadow of a doubt, scientifically if you will. How can that even be done when science doesn't even know exactly how memories are stored? Again, credibility of the person reporting the pre-birth memories is important, and I'm telling you the truth. The memories are there in my mind - whether actually experienced or somehow induced by something else. They are not like a dream. I can remember what I saw and felt - as I'm typing this response to you - just like any of my other earthly memories. However, pre-birth memories are somehow enhanced, because of the "high-definition (HD)-like experience" where one is not restricted to the limitations of ones body. For example when I communicated telepathically - there were emotions conveyed with the thoughts, and therefore the pre-birth memories are quite embedded, and emotions can be remembered along with the message. Very strange sounding I know, but true. So I'm all for investigation of this phemonenon, and since so many people have experienced pre-birth memories, I honestly don't know how you can dismiss their accounts as a hoax with absolute certainty. If not for the internet, these pre-birth memory accounts would not have surfaced to the degree that they have.
Posted by chris  on  Thu Feb 11, 2010  at  11:33 PM
Hi Chris,

Thank you for your response. Do you mind if I ask you a question about the telepathy? What you described before is something I have come across many times in my research in this and other topics.

Thinking back to the memory, do you recall if the telepathy was definately in English? Or was it more a complete concept conveyed in words and emotions, which now that you have a language you rely on has been "translated" into the best fit here and now. So for instance, had you turned out to be born French, you would explain the concept in French? Does that make any sense to you?
Posted by Lissi  on  Fri Feb 12, 2010  at  01:24 AM
Chris said:

"Cranky, the standard that you hold us to is: proving our memoires are real beyond a shadow of a doubt, scientifically if you will."

Well, over and over, the argument is made that science cannot ABOLUTELY ESTABLISH where memories are formed and stored. That inability seems to make some people think that anything they propose as a theory must therefore be true. Uh, no.

By the way, what's wrong with demonstrating scientifically that something is at least POSSIBLE?

"Again, credibility of the person reporting the pre-birth memories is important..."

And yet you seem to dismiss out-of-hand the members of the Virginia House of Delegates who seek to stop Satan's evil plan to install microchips in our skulls. As elected officials, don't they have credibility?

I think what you actually mean is that anyone who says what you agree with has credibility to you. That's a logical trap we all fall prey to occasionally.

"I honestly don't know how you can dismiss their accounts as a hoax with absolute certainty."

I've never said these stories were hoaxes. In fact, I've deliberately said more than once that I'm quite sure that the people who think they have pre-birth memories are sincere. Sincerity, however, is not proof of VERACITY.

Have you ever heard of "false memory syndrome?" I think your "pre-birth memories" are akin to that. In other words, you are absolutely certain you can remember what happened to you before you were born, but you are mistaken.
Posted by Cranky Media Guy  on  Fri Feb 12, 2010  at  01:38 AM
"Have you ever heard of "false memory syndrome?" I think your "pre-birth memories" are akin to that. In other words, you are absolutely certain you can remember what happened to you before you were born, but you are mistaken."

I think this is a key point - you "think" this is what they are, ie. you "believe" this to be the case. IMO, that's absolutely fine and you are entitled to your own beliefs.

I have a different "belief". I am 90% sure that these memories are based in some sort of truth. Until Science can tell us one way or another which is Reality, I prefer to research both views. The 10% of doubt lets me wake up each morning thankful to be alive, appreciating every moment I get to spend with my loved ones, and not to get too caught up in petty quarrels.

"Well, over and over, the argument is made that science cannot ABOLUTELY ESTABLISH where memories are formed and stored. That inability seems to make some people think that anything they propose as a theory must therefore be true. Uh, no."

I don't think the people you are aiming this at believe they have any kind of theory to explain what they are stating. They are merely putting forward an experience they believe they have had. They aren't scientists. Though there are many scientists who DO research this kind of thing, especially once you get to the quamtum level and beyond. That stuff is just plain wierd! 😊
Posted by Lissi  on  Fri Feb 12, 2010  at  02:58 AM
Cranky,

This is a multipart response if your readers are interested in approaching pre-birth memory from another point of view.

Okay. I saw a man on a horse.

The fact remains that you may have seen the same man on the same horse. You ask the following questions:
What color was the horse?
What was the man wearing?
Was he sitting backward or forward on the horse? You get the point.

Of course, we need to share our understandings, beliefs and ideas, as these represent some of the constants enabling our dichotomist existence as clothed-paths
Posted by De  on  Fri Feb 12, 2010  at  11:58 AM
Part (2)

We are clothed-paths motivated by two forms of certainty: certainty of, and certainty to, THE WHOLE and THE PERSONAL. I believe that individual certainty to, is that dream that so many of us surrender for one reason or another, especially when faced with opposing wills.

What you should be doing with your pre-birth memory is my question.

On this journey of dichotomies to there, while here; where truth and lie are as clear and as unclear as our paths, minds, and hearts perceived them to be. We have proven repeatedly that we can produce from that void, faith
Posted by De  on  Fri Feb 12, 2010  at  12:01 PM
Lissi, Cranky & De -

Lissi - to answer your question, I'm using words in english today to describe the thoughts (not words) and emotions that were shared between me and the angel guides, and Jesus etc., pre-birth.

Cranky - I knew you would overreact to what I wrote about scientists not knowing exactly how memories are stored. My point is that there is still much to learn. Also, I do not "believe" I have pre-brith memories - I simply have them whenever I recall what happenened long ago, so therefore I know or remember these memories. If I told YOU that you didn't really remember anything about high school, and that if you did, you had "False Memorey Syndrome" - how would you feel? Also, I have provided you with a scientific definition of false memorey syndrome a few pages back - and you are taking the definition out of context in order to make your point! The members of the Virginia House of Delegates are being paranoid and irrational about the chips - sorry - due to their religious beliefs. Do you always find politicians credible? (ha ha) I do not.

De - here is my dichotomy - I'm lying or I'm telling the truth. (Guess what - I'm telling the truth - whether Cranky likes it or not)

Lissi - what else have you found out about the people you have researched who have had pre-birth memories?
Posted by chris  on  Fri Feb 12, 2010  at  05:22 PM
Chris -

Thank you for your reply. I was hoping you'd say that! That is what I meant (and I didn't mean to ask about "words", that was the wrong description, so I'm glad you clarified). My theory is along the lines that what people call the "soul" is what Science calls the "subconscious" which speaks to us in feelings, images, etc. Many of us tend not to associate with this part of us as "us" yet I believe it is that part that carries on after death. This is a feeling I get and could well be wrong but it serves me for now.

As to finding out about others, I believe on the most part I have found no more that you - Every time I come across a site which I think "Hey, I should tell Chris!" I find you have already made a comment :D If you are willing to look at other experiences people have had that fall out of your belief systems slightly (ie they are not so much focused on "God" and "Jesus", but non religious concepts such as "The Big Cheese"), you may wish to check out the work of Bob Monroe, Bruce Moen and Tom Campbell (the last of which I have given a link to previously). They deal with "OBEs" so I'm not sure if it will fit in your faith as some religions frown on this, but they speak of the same type of comunication, the same type of entities and are very "left brained" in their thinking so bridge the gap between Science and the "paranormal" very well.

De - I would love to know when your book comes out, is there some way I could be notified when you finish working on it?
Posted by Lissi  on  Sat Feb 13, 2010  at  01:30 PM
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