Philippine Urban Legends (Jose Rizal was Jack the Ripper)

Ah Clinton, in fact I happened to catch a tele special the other night, which is strange as I normally do not watch tele. It was some form of a popular world attempt to be a new/hip show. A celeb recently was caught having an affair on his wife or some nonsense. I remember oddly of everything said. 'As we learned during the Clinton scandal...' So I know people have not forgotten. They may choose to purposely try to avoid or ignore the situation as a nothingness. They still are effected though.

:O Washington cheated on Martha? NO WAY! lol It's far more common in history than most realize. Many do regard him as an important figure in American history. Many do not. More some consider the importance of Lincoln. Lincoln being the superior. Now if you tell me he cheated I may just have a bit of a heart murmur. lol

Simple answer since I know you are away for work. Take your time by the way. The first two victims of Mary Ann Nichols and Annie Chapman were near identical in appearance. They were both 'closet' drunkards, with a temper. This is noted in the history of the woman. They are so specifically different than the next three. Even more different than the fourth and fifth. The fifth one was especially interesting. I believe her offender performed sexually with her before the dismemberment. Just with some consideration I would suspect they are that catalyst to the behavior, but I do not think all five women were killed by the same men either. I think one through three were one person, and four and five was a different man. Not to mention all of the other following cases. Not confirmed JTR, but after the original five.

The one factor of all five women is alcohol, and how they are reported to behave when intoxicated. All five were reported to be intoxicated around the murder. Meaning they were a bit 'argumentative' and probably 'obnoxious.' Like I said originally, it well could be the spark to have brought their death. If you are looking for a link to a Filipino, which I do not agree with on my own completely at this point call it womanly intuition for now, you might look to their culture in regards to women. Although to his stay during the time of the murders, what about Gertrude Beckett and her sisters?

Thank you for welcoming me, I still have not finished my exhaustive search in life, but I have found a very interesting topic.

I believe you on the scandal being mentioned on TV. What I meant was, people know it, but I don't think it's such a big issue anymore. Recently on the internet, a viral photo of a jovial Clinton captioned, "Did somebody say Colombian Prostitutes?" I had a good laugh! It might be relevant because of the many political scandals with Weiner and other pols showing their stuff, the secret service and the marines getting involved with ladies of the night, Newt's escapades, etc. but in the end, I feel people don't see Clinton as such a horrible guy for doing what he did. It's like, "Oh well, what are you gonna do?" The people's disgust over the event is probably a mere percentage of what it was at the height of the scandal.

I never noticed that they looked so identical! I always thought Chapman was a heavier and shorter woman. I will have to look at all of them then!

Were they all intoxicated? If they were, then yes, they could have been aggressive, obnoxious, condescending, and probably racist too.

One thing I want to point out is that he lost the love of his life to an Englishman. Not my main theory, just one supporting idea.

Gertrude Beckett and her sisters are too obvious. He couldn't possibly be so stupid to "poop where he eats."

Eon, so I threw images together. Using a Map Of London 1868(Edward Weller). The square is the museum Jose Rizal was known to stay near with a family in London from May 1888 to January 1889. The circle is the general location of the Bishopsgate Police Station. About a 10 minute walk from Catherine Eddowes location. Just slightly more than that to the museum. So it was a 10 minute walk it's presumable to be 20-25 min walk to the museum no? The other area is the crime area.



I took a map from the before mentioned site of case book in the second file. I labeled the known murders to these locations. In this order. Hey I do strange things when sick for so long. 😛 Obviously researching one hundred year old cases is one of them. haha

(1) 31st August, '88. Mary Ann Nichols, at Buck's Row. 5'2" tall; brown eyes; dark complexion; brown hair turning grey. Her father said her drinking caused friction and they argued. 2:30 AM -- "very drunk and staggered against the wall." 3:15 AM - 3:40/45 AM - spotted and killed.

(2) 8th Sept. '88 Annie Chapman, Hanbury St. 5' tall, Pallid complexion, Blue eyes, Dark brown wavy hair, and suffering from a chronic disease of the lungs (tuberculosis) and brain tissue. 1:35 AM: Donovan chastises her, "You can find money for your beer and you can't find money for your bed." 5:30 AM: - a little before 6.00am. Spotted, then killed.

(3) 30th Sept. '88. Elizabeth Stride, Berner's Street. & on same date She was seen by an eyewitness being attacked by a man who might of been jack the ripper, and thrown to the ground on the street outside Dutfield's Yard at around 12:45 a.m. She had a pale complexion, light gray eyes, had curly dark brown hair, and she stood five foot five inches tall. 11:00 PM: "They had been served in the public house and went out when me and my friends came in." 12:45 AM - 1:00 AM: killed, then discovered.

(4) 30th Sept. '88. Catherine Eddowes, Mitre Square. She is 5 feet tall, has hazel eyes and dark auburn hair. 12:55 AM: She appears to be heading back toward Aldgate High Street where she had become drunk. 1:35 AM: - 1:45 AM: killed and discovered.

(5)9th November. Mary Jane Kelly, Miller's Court, She was 5' 7" tall and stout. She had blonde hair, blue eyes and a fair complexion. 11:45 PM: The man is carrying a pail of beer. 11:45 PM-2:00 AM: singing. 4:00 AM: screams. 10:45 AM: discovered.

In 4A this would be where the apron was hung. I do not think JTR wrote the chalk message. I think it was another persons. Why would JTR have chalk on him? If he was quickly wiping a blade, and throwing off the apron of evidence, why would he take the time to write the message like this at all? By all reports he was trying to avoid heat with police and people filling the streets due to the discovery of two crimes, but he is taking time to pull out a piece of chalk and write a cryptic message?

Oh my goodness! What research! I am currwntly on the bus, on my phone, will definitely take a look when I get the chance!

It seems like you have been doing much research. Even before reading this thread it seems. :D

So what if we are right, and it really was him? What about your questions about their culture or spirit?

No I have just been down with an sadly long flu, and doing a lot of research. I hate that tele lol. Defo wasn't prior to, past knowledge learned in early year education and such.

Mmm I honestly think there were three murderers. The sailor, the maniac, and? Still working on the third. Working in collaboration. Not just one. There is tons of evidence to back up such a theory. To it being the accused. Certainly there can be ways to argue against the man. To some possibly confirming it. The original poster said not knowing what filled his time when not hand recording. Ah but people did know much of what filled his time, he was dueling swords, writing new pieces of artwork, winning hearts, and making carved busts of the family he stayed with.

Even if it is proved it's him. The people are a very honor based people. This would counter much of cultural based. Every nation and group of people need historical symbols to give them pride and strength in themselves. Their growing up and education is based in this. In removing their beliefs in this, we remove a large portion of their identity. Forcing them to look else where. In this there may not be anything ever again of such a powerful inspiration.

Let's face it, modern day individuals never reach these heights of mastery any more. Those with the potential never seem noticed. Now a days everyone acts like a someone. So in proving such we could just be adding another long line of societal structure collapses. I was taught growing up sometimes it's best just not to know the truth. For the consequences to what you find might actually harm much more.

What if you prove who JTR is. Then all of these hundreds of years of people trying, and not succeeding. What will the next one hundred years of people do with their time?

hahaha indeed, what would people do in their spare time now? The term ripperologist will cease to exist!

I'm a Filipino and although I agree with you regarding honor, it is only to a degree. Have you seen Philippine TV? It's all garbage...I mean my mother watches it and all but it's like TMZ or some other celebrity gossip show equivalent. Family is really close and tight (Nuclear-Extended) in the Philippines, but overall culture is somewhat similar to American/Western culture. I wouldn't say it is anywhere near the strictness of Japanese culture. Perhaps once upon a time.

I believe the people would embrace another immediately accessible hero - Andres Bonifacio, that is if they really feel that they can no longer be proud of Jose Rizal.

While it is true that modern day humans rarely achieve the heights that JR rose to, maybe showing that he is not perfect and that he is human too will give hope and inspire other people.

Back to JTR...it was noted that JTR must've bee busy during the day - work, school, or other. So Jose being busy throughout the day is not shocking.

Good point on the chalk. I'll try to find a reason why Jose would have one. The apron was found at 3AM. Who would be up at that time, why would they have chalk, and why would they write there (where the Apron was or what was it for that matter).

No I admit I have not been to the Philippines. Being a white girl born in the USA, travel isn't so common. My own family was very restrictive on females of the family. I was to marry a Filipino man years ago, but due to many issues, including our strictly traditional families we were forced apart and separated before we actually did. Such irony really. I did learn a lot from him in regards to the culture, even though highly young, I am now beginning to understand. Part of it is exactly as you say the close knit families. His sister had only been murdered by her white man husband a few years before my guy and I really got together. He was one Filipino who admitted eating dog meat. Although I know that isn't as common in the Philippines as people assume. From my time with the Filipino family I must say I fell in love with the people. Not just the man. So much culture and history. He never would let me go to the Philippines with him. He said I deserved better than it was very poor and miserable.

I can agree it is human nature to do one of two things amidst the fall of an icon. One would be for some to locate a new icon. The other would be to go into complete denial. Basing this on knowledge of past idol falls in history. You are right some will idolize even the worst of the best. Still there becomes a point in life you look and realize. When an idol falls, and a lesser is taken on, then again and again. Before long what are you idolizing as a culture? This is why I say focus on the amount of good, and not any of the worst. Obviously the man was human, or he would personally cured all known disease in his era.

To the time spent, don't forget sleep! The man did a lot which means he would need sleep. The type of people who are up at 3 am even until 5 am as the time frame of some of those crimes, would be chronic insomniacs, or their normal daily schedule would be this hour day in and out for ages. I say this as a former nurse who dealt with the basics of people of all kinds for years. We lovingly call it sun downers. 'When the sun goes down, the hell begins.' People of this nature stand out more in normal society if you recognize it.

If you would rather mail, rather than post in public forums, it's ok. Just use the same name @yahoo. Very generic and safe for me. 😊

It's a shame you never made it there. It's never too late though 😊. The country is indeed very poor but I wouldn't say it is miserable. In my opinion the people there are very carefree and light hearted. It is dirty in the worst parts but pristine in the best parts. Like what I've been saying in the past, yes the country is poor, dirty, contains terrorists and other criminals, but its beauty (cultural and natural) outweighs all of that, tourism proves it. Rizal could be JTR, but ultimately, the people will look beyond that and embrace him for his achievements.

I can't see a Filipino family not allowing this type of marriage. Most Filipino families embrace Americans. I can understand some national pride and ethnocentrism but intermarriages have been a common occurence throughout most of recent Philippine history. Just look at Rizal's love, Leonora Rivera who married the Englishman, Henry Kipping in 1890 (cause of much angst towards the Brits?).

Ah, but now the more important question comes, is a man's name more important than his achievements? To me, and not speaking for anyone else, what man has done is more important than his name or image. I have argued on numerous occasions with Concerned that man will be man-he will err and he will succeed, but what is most important is that you do not judge the person himself, but his actions and ideas. Ultimately we are supposed to learn from these. What else could we do with this information but to study it for our benefit. Shakespeare wrote it best, "What's in a name?". What do we gain in this vain-glorious idoletry?

You have a valid point that the person could be an insomniac or worked those hours, but it could also be just sleepless, maddening nights when he is on the prowl...that's why he didn't kill more often. Rizal was under a lot of stress at that time. He stopped receiving letters from Leonora, his family was being harassed, and he was learning from Sucessos de las Islas Filipinas how much propaganda against the Filipinos existed. The Filipinos were not cavemen before Spanish colonization!

P.S. will begin e-mailing you instead after this one :D

it's obvious to everyone that eon is the winner, because his explanation is more accurate. while the other filipino is responding by temper only and lacking a little brain. Sorry but it's true.
About jose rizal being the jack the ripper, i have a feeling he might be.

The reason for him doing this may be because he find those women repulsing for prostituting themselves.
On the other hand women in the philppines was very conservative and respectable.

Jack the ripper have medical background,
jose rizal have medical background as well.

It happens around the time jose rizal is in london and stop when he left london.

They have the same initial JR
there is no such thing as coincidense in this world. or is it really just all coincidense ?

Or jack the ripper knew jose rizal and is trying to frame him up ?

:coolhmm:
eon wins. nyc, we know that it's hard for you to take, you must be such a Rizal fan. But you're an imbecile. It's a good theory since there are a lot of connections involving both Rizal and the Ripper, and you do realize that Rizal had a few 'failed attempts' of surgery as he marks them 'he/she is sure to die.' in his records.

This theory is close to truth but we cannot determine it as a fact. You did your best trying to win an argue, but you only ended up humiliating yourself to the bone with mislead common sense.

And you did know that Rizal was only declared as a national hero from Americans because of his works being realized by foreigners, and only less than a thousand of more than ten thousands of Filipinos and some very few other natives saw him as a hero before he died. Don't forget that the people who declared him as a hero are (can be a possibility) also hiding a piece of history of Jose Rizal.

If you don't see my information as valid to your eyes, then 'google it', if you can't open up and accept a little idea then we can't call you a Filipino who prospered in many teachings, you poor indio.